Slashdot Mirror
Boeing 737 Max Jets Grounded By FAA Emergency Order (nbcnews.com)
President Trump announced an emergency order from the Federal Aviation Administration on Wednesday grounding Boeing 737 Max jets in the wake of an Ethiopian Airlines crash Sunday and a Lion Air accident in October that together killed 346 people. The emergency order comes two days after the FAA said the Boeing 737 Max planes are still airworthy. NBC News reports: Trump's announcement came as the FAA faced mounting pressure from aviation advocates and others to ban flights of the planes pending the completion of investigations into the deadly accidents. Sunday's crash killed 157 people and the one in Indonesia in October left 189 dead. "We're going to be issuing an emergency order of prohibition to ground all flights of the 737 Max 8 and the 737 Max 9 and planes associated with that line," Trump announced, referring to "new information and physical evidence that we've received" in addition to some complaints.
The FAA said it decided to ground the jets after it found that the Ethiopian Airlines aircraft that crashed had a flight pattern very similar to the Lion Air flight. "It became clear that the track of the Ethiopian flight behaved very similarly to the Lion Air flight," said Steven Gottlieb, deputy director of accident investigations for the FAA. United States airports and airlines reacted to the order Wednesday, acknowledging that it will lead to canceled flights. American has roughly 85 flights a day on the Boeing Max 8 and Max 9 jets. United Airlines has about 40 such flights. Southwest Airlines has the most, about 150 flights per day on these types of jets out of the airline's total of about 4,100 flights daily.
The FAA said it decided to ground the jets after it found that the Ethiopian Airlines aircraft that crashed had a flight pattern very similar to the Lion Air flight. "It became clear that the track of the Ethiopian flight behaved very similarly to the Lion Air flight," said Steven Gottlieb, deputy director of accident investigations for the FAA. United States airports and airlines reacted to the order Wednesday, acknowledging that it will lead to canceled flights. American has roughly 85 flights a day on the Boeing Max 8 and Max 9 jets. United Airlines has about 40 such flights. Southwest Airlines has the most, about 150 flights per day on these types of jets out of the airline's total of about 4,100 flights daily.
Sorry moron C6gummer, sorry Kendall. I guess they didn't take your stained-barcalounger advice after all, dumbasses. I wonder if there's a reason for that? Nah.
Keep talking out your asses, incel infidels.
my girlfriend is so basic. she's not even woke. anybody want some top on the down low?
second post
So the plans that couldn't fly anyway because no other country would accept them are now grounded by 'Emergency'
slowest emergency ever...
Poorly trained incompetent pilots in shit hole third world places with large mohameddan populations.
Claims it was collusion with the Russians and Trump was paid in Aeroflot stock.
Yes, it's a feature of the autopilot. If it's not functioning, turn it off. Sad that the pilots in both cases didn't recognize the issue and corrective action in time.
Are these models those new ones with the carbon-fiber wings that I was so sure were rushed to market too fast and might just shatter if they banked or climbed too hard in cold weather?
What you are basically saying is that Machine Learning adaptive controllers crashed the airlines?
Or maybe they had too much Blockchain on board, weighing them down?
Iâ(TM)ve already heard âoeremote control takeoverâ cutting the fly by wire pilot off from his own plane.
I posted this 5 months ago: Reasons Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg should be replaced.
Slashdot told me there was nothing wrong with the planes.
Now today they are not safe? WTF?
Rick B.
He just had to do it. I'm a dictator Donnie made the completely authoritarian decision to ground them. I'm sure it was his gut that told him. Meanwhile, Canada had their equivalent to the FAA director make the announcement. I guess he felt slighted with all the attention going to the college cheating scandal and wanted his face on the telly again.What a narcissist.
And it's only been in service since May 22, 2017.
Considering the extreme safety of air traffic in general that's one freakishly unsafe plane.
It makes me glad I'm not the engineer/developer responsible for building that subsystem.
I stole this Sig
https://safeblog.org/2016/01/14/automation-dependency-children-of-the-magenta/
Side-note to Tesla:
Self-driving car or Driver-piloted car, there is nothing in-between.
Sad to see the once-proud remnant of American industrial might, Boeing, brought low like this. I thought Airbus lost it on Air France 447 when the pilot pulled his sidestick all the way back and kept it there until the plane crashed. On a Boeing, the dual control sticks would have revealed this and lives would have been saved. But now, we have this:
"One high-ranking Boeing official said the company had decided against disclosing more details to cockpit crews due to concerns about inundating average pilots with too much information â" and significantly more technical data â" than they needed or could digest."
So they:
1) Design an aircraft that has an inherent tendency to pitch up
2) Implement an a system to persistently add control inputs during critical phases of flight
3) Do NOT disclose system description to pilots in FCOM
How about fundamental rules:
Understanding what automation systems do.
Control the automated systems according to strong pilot skills.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
As leather. China is a dog-eating cabalist ethno-state chock full of lying faggots. You'd fit in nicely. Go there, don't bother us with your shameless apologist faggot dance. We'll be just fine without your bullshit, Hackingbear.
If it's Boeing, you ain't going.
No, it's inherently unsafe to have a single-instrument stall detection system. It didn't start out that way in design, at some point they changed it to that. You know nothing about this.
Also you spent all day yesterday saying the plane had "no problems" - you fucking liar lol.
You spent all day yesterday claiming there was nothing wrong with the plane, now the entire world has banned it while they investigate. Just shut your stupid, shit-filled blathering cunt's mouth. You are a fucking moron.
You obviously know jack shit the fuck-all about this.
This was literally explained to him yesterday, c6gummer lied and made something up and ran away from the conversation. The same plane is having the same type of critical all-hands-killed problem twice in months, and in addition pilots have been complaining in the dozens to hundreds about similar events that resulted in close-calls.
C6gummer is a liar in everything he does, he has zero integrity. He tried to say it was all in the pilot's heads. He should date Kendall and repopulate the inbred Republican party with their stubbornly-illiterate inviable offspring.
In future airplanes will have a pilot and a dog. The dog is there to bite the pilot if he tries to touch the controls. The pilot is there to feed the dog.
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
That's great; I'm sure the airspace industry as a whole would love to have your input on how to automatically figure out which AOA vane is giving bad data. As of now I'm unaware of any aircraft which actually does so. Certainly none of the aircraft I've worked on do.
Also if you could please explain to me how you plan to do so, I'd love to hear it.
[ Yes, actually related. :-) ]
The Washington Post has this story, Trump disparages Boeing 737s in private before grounding the plane after deadly crash, noting:
As President Trump consulted with administration officials Wednesday over whether Boeing’s 737 Max jetliners should be grounded after a crash killed more than 150 passengers in Ethiopia over the weekend, he shared his pointed opinion of the type of plane in question.
In his words, it “sucked.”
The president said Boeing 737s paled in comparison to the Boeing 757, known as Trump Force One, which he owns as a personal jet, according to White House and transportation officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. He questioned why Boeing would keep building the model and opined that he never would have bought a 737 for the Trump Shuttle, the small airline he briefly ran three decades ago that relied on 727s before going bankrupt, the officials said. ...
Throughout the process, Trump played the role of aviation expert, despite having no formal training in aeronautics. Trump told advisers about the dynamics and equipment of various airplanes, comparing them to his 757.
His criticism of the 737 — the best-selling jetliner model in history — came just weeks after he attended an event in Hanoi celebrating Vietnam’s purchase of 100 of the Boeing jets.
So there you have it. Trump -- an "expert" at everything, including commercial airplanes and bankrupting airlines as well as casinos.
[ Sorry, couldn't resist a little dig at him here. ]
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Bill got caught lying 12-25 times repeatedly stating "Blood plasma is sterile" and then later that "The Chinese Govt does not directly censor Chinese citizens" and other absolute bullshit head-in-ass retard-level lies. You're not trustworthy.
You are not a source of information that anyone should or even could trust, knowing your dishonest history. Sorry. That's what accountability means when you get caught lying repeatedly, over and over, even after directly corrected.
You're a liar, Bill.
You spent all day yesterday saying the plane had "no problems" - you're nothing but a fucking liar lol.
It's inherently unsafe to have a single-instrument stall detection system. It didn't start out that way in design, at some point they changed to that. You know nothing about this. Single pitot instrument failure = critical failure.
You are a moron. You tried to say it was all pilot error, lol. Fucking idiot kill yourself, leave us out of your stupid self-important delusions of knowing anything about this, you do not.
You spent all day yesterday saying the plane had "no problems" - you're nothing but a fucking liar lol.
It's inherently unsafe to have a single-instrument stall detection system. It didn't start out that way in design, at some point they changed to that. You know nothing about this. Single pitot instrument failure = critical failure.
You are a moron. You tried to say it was all pilot error, lol. Fucking idiot kill yourself, leave us out of your stupid self-important delusions of knowing anything about this, you do not.
The FAA was forced to take Boeing's dick out of its mouth and wipe its chin.
Dude, anyone with an understanding of basic electronics and motors can see how the AoA sensor can be checked inflight. I just looked at the schematic on https://www.satcom.guru/2018/12/angle-of-attack-failure-modes.html
I am sure their engineer thought about how it could be done, but it was too costly to implement. For computer electronics, it's basically a 5x to 10x increase in cost to implement error detection logic so I imagine it's the same here. It's the same reason why you don't see these kind of designs in desktop computers system, but worth having on server systems.
You know that Boeing is going to push out new software to try to address the issue right? It's for sure not as good as if it was originally designed in silicon, but the software solution will come pretty close.
Dude, anyone with an understanding of basic electronics and motors can see how the AoA sensor can be checked inflight.
That's great! Please explain.
I am sure their engineer thought about how it could be done, but it was too costly to implement.
If it were just Boeing, I might buy that argument, but you're suggesting that every aircraft manufacturer in the world decided to skimp on it just to save a few bucks ... which seems a lot less likely.
You know that Boeing is going to push out new software to try to address the issue right? It's for sure not as good as if it was originally designed in silicon, but the software solution will come pretty close.
The software update is reportedly for the MCAS, not for the AOA system. Not sure why you think that's relevant.
Holding the stick back is fine most of the time on an Airbus. But, since the plane had just switched into alternate law, it no longer was okay to do that. I think there is a good possibility the junior FO didn't understand that, either because he didn't really know it was in alternate law, or didn't understand what changed in alternate law.
Seriously, what the *bleep* does this kind of corporate malfeasance have to do with Millennials? You do know this kind of crap existed before Millennials, right?
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Well, we know very well that Boeing boss called Trump and asked to delay the inevitable.
And we know Trump complied.
And that's all.
Load the sin and/or cos coil(s) against the air pressure. It would require additional driver circuitry on the input side, but then you can do all sorts of checks like is it stuck? How much is it stuck by? heck you can use it as crude airspeed monitor also.
they are updating the software to compensate for a hardware issue. Happens all the time in computer systems. see intel microcodes.
Boeing can make any kind of airplanes it wants, but before airplanes are allowed to carry passengers they must be *CERTIFIED*
It was FAA which *CERTIFIED* the Boeing 737 Max 8.
Therefore, it was FAA which should be responsible for the *MURDER OF 336 INNOCENT HUMAN BEINGS* !!!
China is a dog-eating cabalist ethno-state chock full of lying faggots
Is this the /. we love so much?
Or has it turned into a gathering place for racists?
You're proposing turning an AOA sensor into an AOA + pressure sensor. Extra complexity just adds more failure modes. What happens if the pressure sensing side of your AOA vane fails? How exactly are you detecting pressure in the first place, and how will it react to things like moisture, dust, or ice? How will you determine whether a pressure change is due to a change in airspeed, or a stuck vane?
Assuming you overcome all of those issues, what happens if the failure is electrical rather than mechanical? What happens if the vane is installed incorrectly and therefore misaligned? What happens if the vane is bent, and otherwise functioning perfectly but giving a slightly different reading due to an offset angle?
You're certainly arrogant enough to think you can in 5 seconds come up with a solution which nobody in the aerospace industry has ever come up with, but arrogance and competence are not the same thing.
https://users.wfu.edu/palmitar... Remember Ford Pinto. the defective car that ended up killing passengers? Boeing 737 Max Series is in the same league. Both the Boeing 737 Max Series and Ford Pinto have design defects and yet the manufacturers, Ford Motor Company and Boeing, never warned their customers of the defects. And when accidents happened and people being killed, the manufacturers put up a wall of denial , blaming the drivers / pilots for being the culprits, instead. And both companies, Ford Motors and Boeing, are American Companies , and both companies got the backing of the government of the United States of America . Both Ford Pinto and Boeing 737 Max Series were certified by the US government as being SAFE. And when news of the accidents spread, both companies got the backing of the US government in DENYING THEIR OWN FAULTS ! In other words, how can anyone put any more trust in the government of the United States of America ??
Do you guys know who the director of the Federal Aviation Authority is right now? Nobody does, because Trump has never gotten around to appointing one. To be fair, he's been very busy with the golf co-championship and everything, and it probably just slipped his mind.
Nothing matters any more.
You are welcome on my lawn.
You're kinda right but you're missing the purpose of dual sensors. If you want true redundancy you would obviously want 3 or more sensors. When you install 2 sensors, you're not looking for one to be a backup for the other; rather you're looking for them to check each other. If they disagree then you know that the system as a whole is no longer trustworthy, and you can throw signals at the aircrew to let them know not to depend on the readings.
Now, as that relates to MCAS, Boeing had two options in the case of sensor disagreement:
1. Go with the best-case sensor reading, in which case you will likely not react to an actual stall condition.
2. Go with the worst case reading, in which case you may react to a condition which isn't actually a stall.
3. Ignore them completely, in which case the MCAS system becomes inoperative and can't prevent a stall.
They decided to go with the worst case reading because, generally speaking, stalls are bad. You want to prevent them as much as possible. Going nose down when you don't need to is also bad, but not nearly AS bad unless you happen to be close to the ground .... and they tried to make sure that wouldn't happen by disabling the system when the flaps are down. Even if you are at a relatively low altitude with the flaps up for some reason, a stall is typically worse than going nose down because a stall requires significant altitude to recover from.
It was a rational design choice. Where they probably erred the most was in not telling pilots about it. I'm not sure that it would have made a difference to that Lion Air crew even if they had been told, but they still should have been informed.
You're certainly not more qualified to make a wild guess on a /. about aircraft engineering than the AC. The only thing that is different between you two is that having spent all day yesterday to troll how the plane was "safe", you have no credibility on the topic whatsoever.
Fuck off, shill.
Are you an Old Economy Steve who's engaging in a case of "a noun, a verb, and millenials?"
https://i.pinimg.com/originals...
No, you moron, this is way beyond your basic understanding level and actually needs real engineers to understand it. Shut up and take your delusions elsewhere.
He's the idiot.
Meanwhile, at least a hundred people die in car accidents every day just in the U.S. Every day, day after day after day after day....
The point no one seems to be addressing is the chaotic mismanagement of the grounding. The planes continued to fly for several days. If there was a REAL emergency, then they should have been grounded as soon as the second crash removed any doubt. Instead, we went from a state in which there was no emergency to a state in which there was an emergency, but nothing changed in the real world at that time.
Yes, I am saying that Trump's mind is nothing. As in nothing to see there.
I was actually surprised to see that much of the Slashdot discussion was actually substantive, though I expected more mention of fly-by-wire planes. From that perspective it's still a software issue, but I'm not yet certain that Boeing has really gotten to the bottom of it.
There was a related discussion in the discussion of the related survey... Now I'm hung up on the ultimate "safe" airplane with controls like an elevator. Just push the button and take a nap...
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
after all what do these youngsters know?
They elevate idealism and we can't have them disrupting the old order until they are old.
Actually these multifunction probes (Pitot, AOA and TAT) are exactly what Airbus uses on the A380 and the A350 at the very least. The A350 has three multifunctional probes and one each of single function probes.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
The USA used to be the world leader in airplane safety. Now, under the Trump administration, the FAA was the last to ground the 737 Max planes. (The USA still has an excellent record on airplane safety overall.) Is it just a coincidence that Boeing's CEO also golfs with Trump in Mar-a-Lago?
If by "chaotic mismanagement of the grounding" you mean, "waited until there was evidence to make a decision affecting safety" then sure. Exactly 0 incident occurred between the time of the crash in Africa and the grounding of the aircraft in the USA. Seems they acted rationally to wait for evidence before grounding aircraft out of media fear...
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
You sound like the engineeriest engineer ever!
These tragedies require understanding. Passengers and crew fears need assurances. The costs enormous but safety a cornerstone of the gigantic airline industry. The convenience and low cost very good for economic activity. Near term will be yet another head wind into a shaky economy.
Having 3 multifunction probes and 1 standalone AOA vane is not an example of true redundancy with only 2 sensors ....
While my delay has more to do with the fact that I don't have the money for one, the crashes still are an important factor in my decision.
Best post so far.
Could have used links to reports on how they just said the opposite for those who didn't just see and remember from a few days ago.
Good thing no emergencies requiring quick responses have happened...
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Gerald Eastman has been exposing them for years:
https://www.thelastboeinginspe...
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
"U.S. President Donald Trump issued an "emergency order" grounding all Boeing 737 Max 8 and Max 9 a few hours after Canada's decision." -- cbc.ca
Canada's decision was announced by Canadian Transport Minister Marc Garneau, a highly experienced astronaut. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Garneau
US media reports fail to mention that the US action on this issue was (again) late and indicative of corporate concerns other than passenger and crew lives.
The new code for the 737 MAX was written by Indians and relies on one single sensor for a number of critical tasks.
It is absolutely absurb.
Just barely, but he's sure as heck no Millennial.
And "Millennialism" isn't a thing because being a Millennial isn't an ethos or belief system, it's a generation. You're misusing the "-ism" prefix. Generations develop certain behaviors in response to their environment. That's very different than what you're implying by using the phrase "Millennialism", which is that the behavior is a deliberate adherence to an ideal; like Catholicism or Capitalism or Socialism.
Thing is I'm not sure you're aware of what you're implying. There's a lot of general hate for Millennials going around (as there always is for the current up and coming generation. Seriously, Socrates did this crap) and I think you're honestly just picking up on it. I'm not calling you out or anything, but I think your general understanding of the world would improve if you'd reflect on where your opinions of the current generation came from and why you have them.
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It may come as a shock to Slashdot followers that airplanes do crash once in a while. It is called "gravity."
I would like to make several points here:
1. The FAA is charged with promoting the flying industry and to keep flying safe. Anybody see a conflict here. This conflict is not Trump’s or the Russian’s fault.
2. Experienced air travelers and those who follow the air transport industry do not fly on a brand new airplane. Or a new model that has a lot of new changes on it.
3. Unforeseen things happen when an airplane is flying:
a. The first jet commercial transport was the British de Havilland Comet. No one at that time knew of the effects of constantly pressurizing and de-pressurizing an airplane that flew at jet altitudes. Two comets suffered structural fatigue and disintegrated at high altitude. The fault was found and the problem was the square windows the comet had. That is why all jet transports have rounded corners on the windows; stress builds up at right angles. When Boeing built the 707 they put structural supports on the skin of the airplane, much like a seam on a shit. The shit will tear until it gets to the seam.
b. The Lockheed Electra had a problem with the wings coming off. There was a phenomena with the outboard turbine engines called “whirl mode” by the engineers which would under some circumstances cause failure of the wing. A damaged engine mounting would allow the engine to oscillate which would cause catastrophic damage to the wing.
c. The Boeing 707 had problems that resulted in deaths of passengers.
d. The most celebrated or infamous jet transport was the DC-10. An American Airlines flight in 1972 had the cargo door blow out at altitude. Fortunately the aft floor did not collapse enough to preclude a safe landing; the control cables from the cockpit to the floor run under the floor on the DC-10. The door was recovered and analyzed and found to be of unsafe design. The door could be forced to close and sufficient strength applied to the locking mechanism handle to prevent a secure closing but the instrumentation would give the cargo door a green light. An Airworthiness Directive (AD) should have been issued by the FAA which would have grounded the DC-10 fleet until the door was fixed. Instead the FAA reached a gentleman’s agreement with McDonnel Douglas about the door fix. Some cosmetic changes were made to the door but the problem wasn’t fixed. On March 3, 1974 Turkish airlines DC-10 flight 981, Paris to London crashed after takeoff when the cargo door failed. The aft floor collapsed and the plane was uncontrollable. All 346 people onboard died. Finally an AD was issued and the door was finally fixed.
4. An Air France flight 447, Rio de Janeiro to Paris crashed in the Atlantic on June 1, 2009. The crew failed to react correctly when the air speed indicator froze over and the auto pilot disconnected. One of the criticisms was that with all the automatic flight controls now available, the fear is that pilots are losing their flying edge.
5. I suggest that everybody getting so worked up about the 737 problem watch the History Channel on Sunday evenings. There is a program which takes a passenger jet transport crash and analyses the causes. There is usually a chain of events that leads to the crash. If any one of those events didn’t happen the crash would not have happened.
6. Of I would suggest you take a few flying lessons. That will cure a lot of your misconceptions.
Here is the 78-page prelim from the Indonesia NTSC (counterpart to US NTSB) on the Lion Air 610 crash on 2018-10-29;
Very technical reading:
http://knkt.dephub.go.id/knkt/...
Read what I wrote.
If you cannot understand, then feel free to ask for clarification.
If you have nothing to say about it, then perhaps you should say nothing.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
I think the training is critical. The crew that flew the next-to-last flight of the Lion Air plane did figure it out. Literally - they had the same problem but figured out they needed to turn off the autotrim. This really seems like it might be an interaction of a changed flight characteristic and under-trained pilots. What surprises me is that, after the Lion Air disaster, that these pilots would still not properly diagnose the issue. Presumably the investigation will shed more light on that. Sure Boeing is preparing an update to make this outcome less likely, but surely every pilot flying a 737 max would be super-aware of this problem after Lion Air. It seems like maybe the issue is that the pilot can think they've turned off the auto-trim when they actually haven't.
Lol right. C6 spent all day yesterday blaming pilots. Now he's backtracking saying it's not Boeing's fault, but let's wait for the data.
He is starting to look like the biggest idiot on slashdot ever. Next to APK of course.
And I mean that. Your thoughts are too well organized for the talking points you're putting forth. You're writing from a script someone gave you on Millennials.
/. worth it to whoever pays you? Is the pay itself worth it? Maybe you'll be dead before the problems your causing come to roost, but your children won't be.
Is
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Lol, funny how my 'arrogant 5 second idea' was already implemented by Airbus. Chill man, let the engineers design the plane. It seems like you are the one having an arrogance problem looking at your reply/comments, thinking you know things just because you work on planes. If you really wanted knowledge about planes, you should go finish that engineering degree.
https://www.faa.gov/about/key_officials/elwell/
"Prior to serving as Acting Administrator, Mr. Elwell was the Deputy Administrator of the FAA. President Trump announced the appointment of Mr. Elwell as the Deputy Administrator in June 2017 and he was sworn in to office on June 26, 2017."
There is an acting head in charge - stop acting like no one is running the FAA.
If you're an engineer, we are in big trouble. I never suggested that "your idea" was bad because it was shit sensor design; I pointed out it was stupid because it doesn't fix the problem you were trying to address. If you believe that 2 of those sensors would be fully redundant you must be mystified by why Airbus uses 3 of them, and you definitely shouldn't be allowed to engineer anything.
Do you even have a tongue left from the amount of boots you lick? I mean fucking hell! If there's an authority figure, you're on your knees in 2.5 seconds. You have got to be a royal pain in the ass in real life. We had a shithead like you at work who spent the first and last 3 hours of the day under the boss's desk. We ran his ass off. Suck that dick harder, you brown nosing shitheel.
Nobody asked for your opinion either ya fucktard
...or criticism, or any sort of information that contradicts their world view.
They're trolls
They're paid
They're regurgitating a script
They're Fake News
They're Russian/Chinese
(The irony of course is that theses cookie cutter responses themselves can easily be accused of the same)
Even as the parent admits my post look well organized, he doesn't see that as a sign I'm a reasonable person just offering my thoughts, but that I must be part of some conspiracy out to get them.
The only response to all those empty baseless accusations is, to paraphrase a film that a lot of millennials seem to enjoyed: everything in that statement is wrong.
See you around kid
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