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Facebook Secretly Explored Building Bird-Size Drones To Ferry Data To People With Bad Internet Connections (businessinsider.com)

Posted by msmash on from the closer-look dept.

Facebook recently explored building bird-size drones loaded with data to help improve people's internet connections. From a report: The Menlo Park, California-headquartered technology giant worked on a far-out project, called Catalina, in recent years that aimed to build tiny fixed-wing aircraft capable of ferrying media to communities to augment slow internet connections like 2G, Business Insider has learned. The efforts illustrate how Facebook has been exploring out-of-the-box concepts in its attempts to connect people around the world to the internet for the first time and grow Facebook's user base. And it shows that even amid Facebook's public retreat in June from building 747-size "Aquila" drones to provide internet connectivity to emerging markets, the company was also considering other, even less conventional aerial methods of providing connectivity solutions. Development of Catalina began in late 2017 or earlier, a source said, and work on it continued past June. Also in the story: Facebook has pursued some additional low-tech connectivity efforts. "Street Feet" was an internal effort that paid people in emerging markets to physically approach random people on the street and persuade them to sign up for Facebook.

88 comments

  1. What's the business plan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How would Facebook monetize these poor people?

    1. Re:What's the business plan? by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      Can they vote?

    2. Re:What's the business plan? by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not all people who have bad internet connection are poor. It is just that they are not absurdly rich to get ISP's to get wires to their home. Some farmers who actually make a good living, may be miles away from the Internet Infrastructure, however will benefit getting information on weather, commodity prices, veterinarian results, bank account data, new on any new regulations, and communication with others.

      There is a difference between East Coast rural, then mid-west rural. East Coast farms may have a few thousand acres, still small enough to be in rage of Cell Data, But in the mid-west a ranch are measured in square miles. Not profitable to put up Cell Towers to additional ISP wires (Cable/Fiber)

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:What's the business plan? by rnturn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ``Not all people who have bad internet connection are poor. It is just that they are not absurdly rich to get ISP's to get wires to their home. Some farmers who actually make a good living, may be miles away from the Internet Infrastructure, however will benefit getting information on weather, commodity prices, veterinarian results, bank account data, new on any new regulations, and communication with others.''

      I submit that those folks would be excellent candidates for satellite-based internet access. All of the activities listed would be well served by that technology. Drones? You gotta be kidding.

      --
      CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    4. Re:What's the business plan? by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      > How would Facebook monetize these poor people?

      Poor people can be extraordinarily profitable if you have the resources, infrastructure, and warped moral compass required to aggressively exploit them. Poor people generally have few options and no bargaining power, so the fact that you're willing to do business with them puts you in an extraordinarily powerful position to dictate "take it or leave it" terms.

    5. Re: What's the business plan? by saloomy · · Score: 0

      Is these sort of stupid comments that make me sick.

      Poor people have huge potential to produce goods and services and be productive. They just need help getting organized. Look at China, or India. 50 years ago, they were suffering recurring famine. Now, they are wholly productive because some "sick person" invested in their productivity. That's not a bad thing.

      In a free economy, both people benefit by the whole pie expanding. The investor/entrepreneur/industry benefits, the consumers of those goods and services produced benefit, and yes, the poor labor benefit through on the job training, capital acquisition over time, and an end to their daily plight. This is what is considered "the rise of a middle class".

      Take your superior, smug, shitty comments elsewhere. No one is enslaving the poor.

    6. Re:What's the business plan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Poor people have organs for instance, organs that can be harvested.

    7. Re: What's the business plan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My penis, your butt, here we goooooooo

    8. Re:What's the business plan? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      It's not that hard to get data for a mile or two with a fixed parabolic antenna aimed at the cell tower.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    9. Re:What's the business plan? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Not all poors are stupid, only most. The dumb ones can be super profitable. Look at the 'Rent to own' industry.

      There is nothing unethical/immoral about running an RTO or Lottery. Everybody involved is engaging in purely voluntary contracts. It's not your fault they are bad at math.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    10. Re:What's the business plan? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Not all people who have bad internet connection are poor.

      In the early days of Usenet, a tape was sent to Australia everyday on a flight from the west cost of the US.

      Sneakernet: Usage examples

    11. Re: What's the business plan? by Megol · · Score: 1

      Nothing you wrote disagrees with the post you called "stupid" and allegedly made you sick (I really don't think so). Whining that someone dare to acknowledge that poor people have less choice and so anyone targeting them are in a powerful position, especially as consumer protection laws are generally weak in these areas?

      Childish and naive.

    12. Re: What's the business plan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is not my fault the poors do not know the value of their organs that I am harvesting.

    13. Re:What's the business plan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ^ This dumb bitch asserts there's "50$ worth of steel" in modern cars, lol. What a dumb faggot.

    14. Re:What's the business plan? by Hands+of+Blue · · Score: 1

      Facebook has been funding service providers in developing countries for some time now.

      One example is MPT, a mobile network in Myanmar. MPT provides zero-rated Facebook access, ensuring that Myanmar's populace will choose Facebook over any less-scummy competitors—and Facebook provides so many services at this point that there's little reason to ever leave the site, especially when doing so will cost you. Facebook is the primary—if not only—source for messaging, digital marketplaces, news, and more; in conversation, "Facebook" is used synonymously with "the internet".

      Facebook corners emerging markets like this and ensures that they continue to add to their user counts and become the go-to marketing avenue for each—and it'll continue this way until they run out of markets.

    15. Re: What's the business plan? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      It's also not my fault you can't make a coherent argument.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    16. Re: What's the business plan? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      How would Facebook monetize these poor people?

      Hmm, there's a tough one...

    17. Re: What's the business plan? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      yeah, no shit

    18. Re: What's the business plan? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Not to mention, most huge ranches, particularly those in the Midwest (the silly example given) are flat... thus allowing several methods for inexpensively extending range.

    19. Re: What's the business plan? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Fucking amen.

    20. Re: What's the business plan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Late 80s/early 90s there was fair Usenet connectivity but poor file transfer connectivity to various locales. I sent tapes of GNU software to Australia, Malaysia, and Namibia, following up on Usenet queries. For Namibia I had to query US export control, because parts of the country were under embargo from Cuban/Angolan occupation.

    21. Re: What's the business plan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Faggot stalker troll sure is butthurt.

    22. Re: What's the business plan? by astrofurter · · Score: 1

      Exploiting the weak or stupid for profit is indeed immoral.

    23. Re: What's the business plan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Facebook operates "Express WiFi", a freemium wireless internet service, in various poor countries with weak/corrupt governments. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Express_Wi-Fi)

      I've seen the technical docs for the server side component of Express WiFi. It definitely includes netflow (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetFlow) collectors for snooping metadata about all traffic going through it.

      Facebook is always watching.

    24. Re: What's the business plan? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      How will they ever become not stupid or strong?

      Tell your state government the lottery is immoral, go ahead. RTO is no different.

      A fool and their money were lucky to get together in the first place. It is an immoral act to let a sucker keep his money.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    25. Re: What's the business plan? by astrofurter · · Score: 1

      Yes, the state lottery is immoral. It's a disgrace to the people and an indictment of our rulers' wickedness.

  2. When sneaker-net just won't do by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 0

    Further evidence that people with lots of money and no common sense are a problem.

    1. Re:When sneaker-net just won't do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why would you want to do something sensible and robust like having hammy's create a shortwave mesh network when you can just waste time, energy, and materials by throwing drones at something? C'mon man, you gotta think like a millennial here!

    2. Re:When sneaker-net just won't do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you want to do something sensible and robust like having hammy's create a shortwave mesh network when you can just waste time, energy, and materials by throwing drones at something? C'mon man, you gotta think like a millennial here!

      Not to discredit your statement here, but Gen-X was pimping vaporware to a dot-bomb demise long before Millennial's came along with their hipster tech.

    3. Re:When sneaker-net just won't do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, there is the well know aphorism, "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of backup tapes", so I could see this as an extension of the same concept. It is really a matter of, data density of recording device, weight capacity of drone and travel time.

      Dense urban and suburban populations where this would be most feasible are also the one most likely to have good connections...

    4. Re:When sneaker-net just won't do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really, really miss the late 90's/early 00's. It was a golden age of stupid computer- and internet-related tat that you had to see to believe. Everyone suddenly had access to all these new tools and nobody knew what to do with them, so suddenly we had crap like DIVX and :CueCat.

    5. Re:When sneaker-net just won't do by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Some areas are tough for Sneaker-Net. And with Drones we can have dozens of communication transfers a day vs. 1 or 2 with Sneaker-Net.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    6. Re:When sneaker-net just won't do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still use "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of backup tapes" whenever the opportunity presents itself!

    7. Re:When sneaker-net just won't do by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Well, there is the well know aphorism, "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of backup tapes",

      Sadly, I would have to guess if you used this saying around anyone much under the age of 50yrs, their first response would be...

      "What's a station wagon?"

      ;)

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    8. Re:When sneaker-net just won't do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what the fuck is 'bird-sized'?
      Drones smaller than a ostrich or a dodo?
      Great accomplishment.

    9. Re:When sneaker-net just won't do by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      "What's a station wagon?" ;)

      Station wagons were effectively banned by the CAFE standards passed by congress in the late 1970s. People with a need for cargo space switched to less efficient and more polluting SUVs, trucks, or vans.

      Yes, this was stupid and counter-productive, and yes, this is a great example of unintended consequences from poorly thought out regulation.

    10. Re: When sneaker-net just won't do by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Mod the fucking-fuck up.

    11. Re: When sneaker-net just won't do by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      "What's a station wagon?"

      My '15 Suburban is a body-on-frame station wagon with more ground clearance than any highway vehicle ought to have... but Eibach is supposed to be working on a lowering kit. :)

    12. Re: When sneaker-net just won't do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Us older folks are more likely to think of the Griswold Family Truckster when the word station wagon is thrown around. In my high-school days many of my friends received early-70's station wagons as their first cars. Many of these had been delivered with 460 and 455 ci engines and made for a humorous spectacle on friday night run-what-you-brung nights at the local drag strip.

      IMO, it was not CAFE standards that killed the station wagon, just a society wide shift away from them to SUVs. CAFE just forced Detroit's hand on which models they would continue to sell. I know that Taurus sold a station wagon model until 2007

  3. Obligatory Scene 22 by Red_Forman · · Score: 1

    http://montypython.50webs.com/...

  4. If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If this had been Twitter, we'd all be rolling on the floor laughing.

  5. IP over Avian Carrier 2.0 by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 4, Informative

    Is this the next release of the standard "IP over Avian Carrier"?

    --
    Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
  6. RFC 1149 IP Datagrams over Avian Carrier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    RFC 1149 -- https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1149

    A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers

    1. Re:RFC 1149 IP Datagrams over Avian Carrier by whitroth · · Score: 2

      Or they might be going for RFC 2549, Datagrams over Avian Carrier with QoS tools.

  7. Media = Ads by reanjr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And by media, they mean advertisements.

  8. Not sure by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    What's the end goal here? I could see this for something like a compressed version of Wikipedia and similar websites, but FaceBook?

    "Your message to your uncle was sent via RFC 1149. You can expect a reply no earlier than two weeks from now."

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  9. Is it Monday already? by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

    April 1st is Monday. I think /. 8 bit server is suffering from the Y2K bug.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
  10. Too soon? by Rashkae · · Score: 1

    A couple days early for these stories, no?

  11. Justify or Delete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


         

  12. Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's the end goal here?

    Advertising and market penetration. The more people they can reach, the more they can charge for advertising.

    1. Re:Seriously? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      I understand that, but Facebook is probably the furthest thing from a static website.
      What would be their product to reach those people to push advertising on them, since it can't be Facebook?

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  13. Is this cheaper then pigions. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    Why don't we have carrier pigeons with USB sicks? Are drones that much more reliable and affordable to maintain?

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Is this cheaper then pigions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      9 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 55% packet loss

      I guess this is why.

    2. Re:Is this cheaper then pigions. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Why don't we have carrier pigeons with USB sicks? Are drones that much more reliable and affordable to maintain?

      A carrier pigeon might panic if it see's a cat and swallow the USB stick. What we need is Golden Eagles trained to act like carrier pigeons.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    3. Re:Is this cheaper then pigions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Why don't we have carrier pigeons with USB sicks? "

      Because they may be carriers, but like all the pigeons they only know the way home.
      If you want them to get somewhere specific (your home f.ex.), you have to drive them there with your car.
      But it will fly home from there without any problems.

  14. What was the RFC for the carrier pigeon protocol? by rnturn · · Score: 1

    They must be trying to implement that. It's too early for April Fool's Day.

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
  15. Bird-size by rossdee · · Score: 2

    Are we talking hummingbird or albatross ?

    Or swallow?

    1. Re:Bird-size by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ducks are pretty reliable for time and position.

    2. Re:Bird-size by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and what is the unladen airspeed of that swallow, I wonder?

  16. slow != low bandwidth by coreman · · Score: 1

    A station wagon full of magtapes still have the largest bandwidth

  17. Headline needs some interpreting, I think: by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I think in the case of Facebook the real headline should read:

    Facebook Secretly Explored Building Bird-Size Drones To Ferry Personal Data From People With Bad Internet Connections

    Amirite?

    1. Re:Headline needs some interpreting, I think: by ljw1004 · · Score: 1

      I think in the case of Facebook the real headline should read: Facebook Secretly Explored Building Bird-Size Drones To Ferry Personal Data From People With Bad Internet Connections

      . Amirite?

      No, I think you're wrong in an instructive way.

      What plausible mechanism can you imagine by which these drones would carry data away from people? Occam's razor strongly suggests that what you describe wouldn't happen in this case. Which suggests you should re-evaluate your knee jerk.

    2. Re:Headline needs some interpreting, I think: by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      I think you should re-evaluate your sense of humor, specificall your disappointingly sad complete lack of one, and perhaps also your insufferable pedantry. You're a buzzkill. Party pooper. Sad sack. Droll to the point where even an Englishman would think you're too dry and humourless. Sheesh.

  18. Re:Is it Monday already? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

    April 1st is Monday. I think /. 8 bit server is suffering from the Y2K bug.

    Yeah, my first thought was, "wait is this an April Fools joke?"

    As incompetent as Facebook are, I wouldn't be surprised if this were released too early.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  19. Re:What was the RFC for the carrier pigeon protoco by chiefcrash · · Score: 1

    IP over Avian Carriers (IPoAC) was initially described in RFC 1149, released on April 1, 1990. Waitzman described an improvement of his protocol in RFC 2549, IP over Avian Carriers with Quality of Service (1 April 1999). Later, in RFC 6214—released on 1 April 2011, and 13 years after the introduction of IPv6—Carpenter and Hinden published Adaptation of RFC 1149 for IPv6.

    --
    Show me on the 1st Amendment bobblehead where the moderator touched you...
  20. Street feet by BringsApples · · Score: 2

    Facebook has pursued some additional low-tech connectivity efforts. "Street Feet" was an internal effort that paid people in emerging markets to physically approach random people on the street and persuade them to sign up for Facebook.

    This would have totally backfired. There was a start-up where I live, like 10 years ago. They had a series of what appeared to be small moving trucks that had been modified to show scrolling advertisements on all sides. Needless to say it was eventually banned by a city ordnance, but before that happened, people would cut the trucks off, brake-check them and just generally give them shit on the road. I imagine that if Facebook hired people to advertise to the general public like that, probably the same, or worse, would happen to them.

    --
    Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    1. Re:Street feet by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      In the USA those would have never been legal. Unless the ads didn't have any blue or red elements.

      No red lights on non emergency vehicles except the brake lights, no blue lights on non-emergency vehicles.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:Street feet by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Get a life drinkypoo.

      For ref Drinkypoo was agreeing with one of his alts that Steel tariffs would double the price of cars. My position was they would add maybe $50/car. He's just deluded.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    3. Re: Street feet by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      He's just deluded.

      It's not inconceivable that that's his job.

    4. Re:Street feet by BringsApples · · Score: 1

      It's in America. There were no lights on the sides, just a 3-sides, rolling sections that would display a different advert each, so there could be 12 different adverts per truck. I found this video that shows what I'm talking about, although it only shows it from the rear.

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    5. Re:Street feet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't know where you live, but in 'Merica that is protect commercial speech and cannot be legislated against.

  21. Never underestimate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum

  22. If facebook wants to enlarge its base by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    they need to stop being so awful. Anyone still using facebook after all the crap they've been recently found to be doing is intellectually challenged.

  23. would rather talk about..... by jm007 · · Score: 1

    the sensationalism and editorializing of a mundane 'news' item

    many if not most companies have an R&D division/aspect in which they explore future possibilities; the fact that it isn't announced to the public in detail is not the same as it being done 'in secret'

    clickbait journalism requires falsehood and misdirection.... the very opposite of the journalist's creedo

    ".... oooooo, let's call it "secret" so it appears full of controversy and we'll get the views to justify the ads...." of course this is much better than to headline it as 'Facebook pursued low-tech connectivity efforts' which brings fewer views

    disgusting

  24. Re:"Shanghai" Bill is a known liar many times over by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And _you_ are on the autism spectrum

  25. "Secretly" by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

    Headlines are usually full of crap. There's nothing in TFA about this being any kind of a secret. Now, maybe they didn't call up Business Insider ahead of time to tell them about it, that's not the same thing as a secret.

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  26. one packet per each drone flight! by porky_pig_jr · · Score: 1

    First drone delivers "REQ".
    Returns back with "ACK1".
    Files again with "ACK2".

    And - voila! Connection established!

    1. Re: one packet per each drone flight! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pull! *bang* FIN_WAIT_2.

    2. Re:one packet per each drone flight! by Required+Snark · · Score: 1
      Too efficient: drones values are general purpose.

      First send drone that only does REQ. The drone that returns only does ACK1. Then send send drone that only does ACK2.

      Data is encoded by drones that represent the hex values #0 to #F.

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
  27. I'd use it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I live in a city with Internet access and I can still see why this is useful. Say I buy some content that is several TB, which is realistic for commercial things like raw audio and video samples. I can download on a 10Mbit connection or pay someone 20 bucks to send a drone. The drone would actually be a decent option for things like this. I have a purchase right now that is a massive download and is annoying me.

  28. IPoAC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IP over Avian Carrier will have its proper day in the sun! With a bird bath! And bread!

  29. Has April 1st by Latent+Heat · · Score: 1

    come early to Slashdot?

  30. What's a magtape? by Latent+Heat · · Score: 1

    Never heard of that species of bird before!

  31. Facebook userbase was intellectually challenged by Latent+Heat · · Score: 1

    before the discovery of their recent doings?