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YouTube Executives Ignored Warnings, Letting Toxic Videos Run Rampant (bloomberg.com)
Proposals to change recommendations and curb conspiracies on YouTube were sacrificed for engagement, Bloomberg reported Monday, citing Google employees. From the report: In recent years, scores of people inside YouTube and Google, its owner, raised concerns about the mass of false, incendiary and toxic content that the world's largest video site surfaced and spread. One employee wanted to flag troubling videos, which fell just short of the hate speech rules, and stop recommending them to viewers. Another wanted to track these videos in a spreadsheet to chart their popularity. A third, fretful of the spread of "alt-right" video bloggers, created an internal vertical that showed just how popular they were. Each time they got the same basic response: Don't rock the boat.
The company spent years chasing one business goal above others: "Engagement," a measure of the views, time spent and interactions with online videos. Conversations with over twenty people who work at, or recently left, YouTube reveal a corporate leadership unable or unwilling to act on these internal alarms for fear of throttling engagement. Wojcicki would "never put her fingers on the scale," said one person who worked for her. "Her view was, 'My job is to run the company, not deal with this.'"
The company spent years chasing one business goal above others: "Engagement," a measure of the views, time spent and interactions with online videos. Conversations with over twenty people who work at, or recently left, YouTube reveal a corporate leadership unable or unwilling to act on these internal alarms for fear of throttling engagement. Wojcicki would "never put her fingers on the scale," said one person who worked for her. "Her view was, 'My job is to run the company, not deal with this.'"
Just say what it is! Stupid people are predisposed to violence! There is nothing else to this
I see no problem here (except with some employees who are complaining, who should probably be fired).
<whiteout>Don't</whiteout> be evil.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
YouTube could break the echo chamber effect by recommending good quality videos on the same topic. If someone is interested in vaccinations, there's no reason to just recommend conspiracy videos on the topic.
Why do I get the feeling they're talking about wrongthink videos and not the child pedophilia videos? The child grooming videos are a legit problem that needs to be addressed, not people expressing different opinions. Not everyone agrees on what constitutes as hate speech. I personally don't even think there is such a thing. If they're going to go down the path of censorship, and yes I understand it's a company exercising its right to decide what it allows on the platform, then they should just go all-in and be done with it so everyone can move on.
So they admit the videos didn't break the rules, but our feelings were hurt/we disagreed with their political views so we should censor them. Got it.
Notice the use of emotionally charged rhetoric.
"incendiary and toxic content" - subjective and not objective, specifically used to rally people to their viewpoint without questioning the author. After all, you don't want to be toxic, do you?
It seems to be less "don't rock the boat" and more "they're not breaking the rules, tough shit"
It used to be the case that a higher education was good for exposing young minds to challenging ideas, and thereby teaching them to stare with resolve into the deep abyss that is existence, and to rebut bad arguments with good arguments.
However, collectivist authoritarians (namely Marxists) began their "long march" through the Institutions of the West; in the Universities, they started curbing speech by setting up "safe spaces", and then once the "safe" space spread across most of a campus, they started designating "free-speech zones" to mark those pockets of the university that are explicitly no longer "safe" from triggering ideas. Then, the started calling some speech "hate speech", so that they could regulated the "free speech" zones, and now students (read: children) at these institutions regularly prevent cordial lectures by any means necessary, including yelling, chanting, storming stages, and piling chairs up where an unwanted speaker might which to make his pulpit.
We're doomed.
Does Rick Rolling count?
I have been watching cat videos on YouTube for 10 years now and it has been a good run. But not they have stated to show the odd dog video now and then.
Thatâ(TM)s extremely offensive and now I am afraid to open the browser because with no warning what so ever, BANG, there it is. A DOG video in my recommended feed.
Meow.
L'Idiot
Beheading videos from the worldview that must not be named, of course, are fine.
Videos talking (negatively) about beheading videos and the culture that makes them, however, are "alt right" and we can't tolerate that.
Anything that isn't considered left-wing and "progressive".
Well the people in the bubble she navigates in, certainly wants to get rid everyone they donâ(TM)t like:
https://youtu.be/LkUdmy0OZ94
... UsTube.
Not YouTube - "you" might hold unapproved opinions or something. UsTube. Our opinions, not yours.
any video with subject matter someone does not agree with. So does this mean youtube is shutting down sine they cannot play any videos without offending someone?
My servers my rules. Anyone whining about censorship or other equally inane BS are welcome to start their own 'tube.
Until it comes to paying. Then they will demonetize at the drop of a hat.
BREAK UP GOOGLE!
Corporatism != Free Market
The other night, my 4 year old was watching an age-appropriate channel and you know what trailer they played?
Pet Sematary
I can explain 95% of all of the white power stuff away easily. I cannot easily explain away a demon-possessed zombie cat from Hell to a pre-schooler who is nearly at bed time.
Priorities? It'd be nice if they actually had some.
This is an issue of scope, profit margin, and market evaluations.
You know why Steam doesn't hand-pick games to be on their marketplace? Scope of the task. They clean up the biggest disasters, but basically filter feed on whatever pops out of that ecosystem.
Same thing for the Microsoft store, the android marketplace, and large parts of the Apple marketplace.
And those are marketplaces where the profit margins are relatively large.
Well, relatively large, compared to Youtube.
In setting any standards involving an expectation of paid human oversight - including just managing a bunch of volunteers - even at some absurdly low 1 to 1 million ratio, they risk the value they hold in the primary underlying motivation of their bosses: The market value of their platform.
That's the real issue - business stuff like staff responding to DMCA complaints is also expensive, but the market isn't going to lower their stock for that. But having to hire and maintain staff to stand in as referees in effectively political contests... that's going to generate blowback they can't shuffle under some easy cost line in a report.
That's kind of the problem with being a public traded company. The pressures aren't just financial - they are also largely the political fashion sense of the market pushing everyone to play a game of taking the most they can from contracts (customer and employee alike), and then providing that value back as maximal perceived market value.
The irony is that we call it being 'publicly traded' - where it functions mostly to funnel wealth into fewer and fewer private hands in the end.
In the end, our shared retirement accounts get regularly raided and scammed, and the entire market is expected to crash, as if it was a force of nature - because minimal oversight is seen as more expensive and odious than frequent disaster.
That's the shape of the system we make for ourselves.
Ryan Fenton
Well you do have to admit if you're in the mood for b@tsh!t crazy you can't go wrong with Alex Jones..
Define "good quality".
When you search "vaccinations" on Google, good quality results show up on top. Apparently, they already have the tools.
YouTube already demotes you if you swear and ensures popular videos with "toxic" behavior never trend or get recommended. The problem is even videos as inane as PewDiePies latest congratulations song can get 22 million views in a day but still not hit trending because some arbitrarily decided nothing he creates can hit the trending list. Meanwhile Stephen Colbert can say trump is sucking Putin's cock and that video gets recommended because "if it's okay for tv it's okay for YouTube." You absolutely don't want to be on the wrong end of a reviewer defining you and that is what happens all the time. Numerous people are claimed to be "toxic" even just for not liking a brand or something other people like, as if just not loving something is a crime. You can never let a small group of people or even an algorithm define toxicity ir some people will always be shut up and left silent.
if I'm watching anti-anti-vaxxer videos would YouTube recommend actual anti-vaxxer videos?
That said, I'm a lefty McLefty and I get the occasional right wing video in my channel. Mostly Sargon of Arkad. I used to get a fair amount of them actually because I subscribe to a bunch of atheist channels (Aronra, Genetic Skeptic) but the bulk of the YouTube skeptic community pivoted to anti-SJW vids about a year ago (more view, more patreon donations, they followed the money) and I couldn't care less about that so they gradually disappeared from my feed.
YouTube wants to show me the next video I will watch. That's the "engagement" they're talking about. Their algorithm just tracks what I'm likely to click. So I look up a few videos on "The problem of Evil" and a few of the skeptics who switched to 24/7 anti-SJW might show up in my feed, but they'll figure out pretty quick I'm not clicking and steer me towards somebody like Shaun or Noncompete.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
it's not too hard to get out of your bubble yourself by clicking some videos (or going into private browsing and/or a VPN if you really want to). There's been several lefties who ran down the alt-right rabbit hole and wrote about it.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
In fact, when you search "vaccination" on YouTube, you also get mostly good quality results.
Women CEOs were supposed to be better than male CEOs and yet somehow they don't seem to be much different.
Sure, go ahead and pretend there's no middle ground.
Does it say we get free speech as long as we're "responsible" with it?
Encouraging violence is not speech.
Speech that does not tell people to be violent cannot incite violence. If someone decides to engage in violence over an idea, they're morons responsible for their own actions.
Blaming other people for your behavior is childish. Justifying tyranny because someone blamed words for their actions is just as absurd.
Work Safe Porn
Wrong.
Go look at the data. People are more likely to be recommended left/liberal/mainline views than they are to be recommended right/conservative/"conspiracy" videos.
There is flow from each category to the others, but the overall flow is largely in favor of left/liberal/mainstream. The idea that Youtube is radicalizing people is false.
https://www.bitchute.com/
Define "good quality".
Good composition
Steady shooting
No stupid effects interfering with the content
Cut the wind noise!
Run at regular speed, with audio, then do your slo-mo.
No stupid background music when we want to hear the racket your flying car makes!
Follow through (complete) on the fucking shot!
There are several others, but these are some "guidelines" that should be followed if the shooter doesn't want to be strung up for committing actionable offensives in violation.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
to remember the free speech movement started at Berkeley.
r
Now we've turned 180 degrees, and those same people are calling for censorship and the political right are now the defenders of free speech?
It's time to admit that not having charters for corporations is a bad thing.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Trump was never supposed to get elected. Brexit was never supposed to happen. Mainstream corporate media could no longer be relied upon to adequately shape public opinion. Something had to be done.
Pewdiepie became a nazi to be used as the excuse for the adpocolypse. Alex Jones was the lowest hanging fruit to be plucked and deplatformed. CNN videos went from 100 views to 100K views as independent journalists and commentators were pushed down. "trusted flaggers" such as the ADL and SPLC were brought on as the shadow inquisition. Still, it's not enough.
This is the future of Youtube.
I've never seen it one way or another. Google seems to guard that algorithm pretty closely (not surprisingly). Anecdotally they seem to send me more and more of the same kinds of videos I just searched for or watched.
So I look up some Alpha Omega Sin (a right leaning game channel) I'll get a few right leaning videos in my feed. Click a few of those and before long I'll have some Sargon of Arkad and Count Dankula. Keep going and eventually I hit Baked Alaska and eventually Richard Spencer (or his friends).
Same works for the left. Start on Kim Justice (a trans UK games journalist) and before long I'll be watching The Young Turks and Noncompete. Lately I've been getting videos of actual anarchists (the non violent kind) and Marxists.
A more amusing example, my bud subscribed to a Warhammer 40k painting channel. The YouTuber was also Trans and did their trans videos on the same channel. My brother couldn't figure out why YouTube decided he was LGBTQ. The 40k painter did a video explaining it and that she was splitting her channel.
I actually unsubbed from Alpha Omega Sin because I got tired of the alt-right videos in my feed. I'd prefer him to split that off more like Pat the NES punk did and for the same reasons. There are some rabbit holes I don't want to even gaze into let alone go down.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
If libertarians == fascists then the terms right wing and far right does not mean anything anymore.
One can be far right (small, limited government) and not be racist.
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
Someone told me about a YouTube video that was criticizing democrats. I searched for the exact and very unique title and the only things that came up were CNN videos. The person actually had to send me a link to it so I could watch it.
This is blatant censorship. Welcome to communism.
Toxic is the new buzzword to justify censorship. It's so easy to strip people of their rights if you use the right buzzwords. You can de-platform any political party before it's even created. You silence critics at a drop of a hat. Notice how the word "alt-right" gets used in every political argument these days but you'll never see one in the real world. Notice how the words "harassment" and "trolling" can be used to shutdown your critics accounts. Social media companies are practically having screaming orgasms at the opportunity to censor people purely for political reasons. It's too easy.
No text to speech crap either
Or did you mean terrorists? The sad thing is you got modded up +5 with that little Freudian slip. Or did you mean videos recruiting to Islam? Ok, should we pull the 700 club's channel?
:) ).
Anyway, terrorists videos get pulled when reported, Linda Sarsour seems to just advocate for Palestine (I don't know that much about here, but I couldn't find anything antisemitic there), Pallywood is a pretty controversial concept in and of itself and Communists are generally a pretty peaceable bunch on YouTube, certainly not what I'd called Toxic.
Also, anyone else notice that whenever anyone says "incendiary & toxic" people's thoughts immediately turn to the Alt-Right? I'm not trying to troll here, it's just a fact (facts don't care about you're feelings... ok, I'm trolling a little with that last one
I will say this: If I follow the far left rabbit hole all the way down I find a few anarchists yelling "Punch Nazis". If I follow the alt-right rabbit hole down I end up at a white ethno-state with hints of genocide. What I'm saying is the two are not even remotely equivalent.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Google suspends and demonetizes all kinds of shit that has nothing to do with politics. And it's not like lefty channels haven't been at the mercy of Google's arbitrary whims.
They just suck as a company, period.
that Hate Crime is increasing while the rest of violent crime decreases. Here's the article you're probably referencing. Since it was the 1st hit on google.
We fought hard to delegitimize organized violence against minorities in this country. There was widespread anti-black terrorism committed with impunity right up until the 70s (and the occasional incident in the 80s and 90s).
It's not that Americans evolved some higher form of intelligence or empathy. We're the same folk we were 40 years ago minus a chunk of bigotry. What I'm saying is that it would be effortless for us to regress back to the KKK days. I'm a white dude and I do not want that.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
That's a lot of words to say that you like censorship. I don't.
The solution for "bad speech" is more speech. Don't like speakers that "radicalize" people? Present a more compelling argument. Should be easy: after all, you're right and they're wrong, yes? But if you insult instead of argue, and the radicals welcome people and validate them, you're going to lose.
Some social norms are bad. We need the ability to "radicalize" people away from those. And it's not your job to choose.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
you're suggestion all Muslims are terrorists, right? Because, I mean, you are, and you seem pretty unapologetic about it.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Horsehockey!!!
Offensive Speech == Free Speech == Offensive Speech .
I tried to make it as simple as possible in case the concept is too difficult. If you still don't understand, remove one of the equals signs from each side.
The reason why the attitude is common is that normal, thinking people all seem to understand why free speech is a line that we should not cross. That means that on some days, something on the interwebz is going to get your panties in a bunch. Suck it up, Buttercup!!!
Daily, I find things I don't like and don't care for, but I move on. I understand that 1) Everybody can't be as right as I am all the time. 2) If I get high and mighty, I remember that time in 1986 when I was wrong once....
and the ability to publish is not toxic content.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
while suggesting they rule you.
Also the market place of ideas starts to fall down when you factor in spam. It completely collapses under the weight of moneyed interests.
Good example: Right now corporate owned media is trying to cram Joe Biden down my throat. MSNBC has been attacking the women who called him out on being handsy; being careful to tell us how this is ever so much different than when they black balled Al Franken. Why? Because Biden's already promised to slash Social Security meanwhile Bernie Sanders wants to raise the tax cap to fund it.
My point is we focus too much on YouTube and not enough on the billionaires that run our media.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Yawn. Politicians aren't anything but politicians. How old are you? Grow up.
Once he was convicted of raping and murdering scores of women, Ted Bundy claimed pornography was the first step towards becoming a serial killer. Of course, millions of other people looked at pornography and didn't become one, but that didn't stop the religious right from seizing on it to prove the evils of pornography. And Ted got an excuse out of it.
While I do find it amazing that the technique has crossed the political aisle over the course of my own lifetime, ultimately it's a pattern of any group of fanatics who are convinced of their moral superiority.
...but tomorrow they will target your political stripe. It doesn't take long for the winds of politics of those in charge of a nation or a company to change. And then the biggest media platforms in the world will be silencing you, and people you support. And then what? When suddenly all videos with music, women without a hijab, or drinking alcohol become haram? You've stood idly by watching the biggest censorship and surveillance machine in human history (including the soviet union) get constructed, and now it's in the hands of a psychopath who's against your political worldview? Hell, the next president after Trump could nationalize Youtube, and Youtube could become mandatory. Then we're in trouble.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
If you don't like censorship, then why do you promote irresponsible behavior that will inevitably lead to censorship?
It's never failed, you know. At some point, society will say, "enough" to the edgelords and then bring down the hammer. If you want to push the envelope in violent and hateful ways, prepare to accept society's consequences. But remember, you're bringing down everyone else with you. Whether we like it or not, this is how it works, and how it's always worked.
You are welcome on my lawn.
CNN Executives Ignored Warnings About Fake Collusion Narrative, Letting Toxic News Run Rampant
They have the capability of identifying content that is hate speech, or incitement to violence, glorification of terrorism or anything else objectionable. And if they can do that then there is no reason they shouldn't weight the content so it drops down the results into oblivion so it cannot be found. They can also flag it so it is never recommended, demonetize the content, 18-rate it to require verification. Content so flagged can be manually reviewed and obliterated.
If people are still determinedly finding that content then it simply feeds into improving the countermeasures even further, flagging other videos they may have watched and so on.
Some might see this as being anti-free speech but YT isn't the government and can set whatever terms they like. And indeed they already have such terms. This would just be enforcement of them.
I disagree, but I do respect her for presenting an hour after discovering she'd had a miscarriage.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-...
Would you like some cock down your throat too? Aw hell, why not...
It's not like I'll run out of copy/paste any time soon while you try to block me for calling you out as sniveling racist cunts that you are.
Anyway... as I was saying to that racist scumbag Penguinisto up there...
Would you like some cock with that strawman?
And that ignoratio elenchi you're peddling?
Well, ready or not, open wide...
First of all, setting the argument as if it is about the "value of the victim" clearly shows that you are scum.
That you're also setting that up as a strawman shows signs of mental retardation and sociopathy, as well.
You think that you are smarter than the average bear, but you're actually so pathetic that you don't even realize how epic your dumbness and ignorance truly are.
See... the actual issue is with the severity of the crime due to its premeditated nature (there are no accidental hate crimes) AND the presented lack of remorse.
You don't shoot up a synagogue, a mosque, a church, a gay wedding, an abortion clinic etc. due to a momentary lapse of reason - you do it because you believe such an act to be morally RIGHT.
That is why people who commit hate crimes deserve a harsher sentence. It has nothing to do with the "value of the victim".
But thanks for pointing out to everyone that YOU believe it to be so.
I.e. That lives of some people ARE inherently "more valuable" - and that said value revolves around hate crime issues.
Like race, religion, sex, ethnicity etc.
Oh and that's not a real cock I just showed down your throat. It's a catheter for artificially inseminating swine.
Only been used once.
On your mom.
As for motive determining guilt or innocence... Do you even language motherfucker?
motive
noun: motive; plural noun: motives
1.
a reason for doing something.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
I'm not sure I see that pattern. There are moral panics, to be sure. The waltz, pool halls, D&D, video games, really anything the kids do. That's not the same thing, though. There is certainly much historical precedent for government or religion stamping down on those who challenge their authority (which, yes, is a thing popular with edgelords), but that's not the same, really.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Might want to check the political affiliation of 'Tipper Gore'.
There has long been 'puritans' in both political parties.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Did you just try to impose an idea on me by telling me not to impose any ideas on someone? Cute, but ineffective.
No, asshole. The reason he didn't see the whole thing was because I was there and stopped it before it got into the even creepier scenes.