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Australia Passes Law To Punish Social Media Companies For Violent Posts (theguardian.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The New York Times: Australia passed sweeping legislation Thursday that threatens huge fines for social media companies and jail for their executives (Warning: source may be paywalled; alternative source) if they fail to rapidly remove "abhorrent violent material" from their platforms. The law -- strongly opposed by the tech industry -- puts Australia at the forefront of a global movement to hold companies like Facebook and YouTube accountable for the content they host. It comes less than a month after a gunman, believed to be an Australian white nationalist, distributed a hate-filled manifesto online before using Facebook to live-stream the massacre of 50 people at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand. Written quickly and without much input from technology companies or experts, the measure goes as far as any other democracy's attempt to punish multinational tech platforms for the behavior of their users. "The legislation criminalizes 'abhorrent violent material,' which it defines as videos that show terrorist attacks, murders, rape or kidnapping. Social media companies that fail to remove such content 'expeditiously' could face fines of up to 10 percent of their annual profit, and employees could be sentenced to up to three years in prison," the report adds. "Companies must also inform the police when illegal material is found."

"This law, which was conceived and passed in five days without any meaningful consultation, does nothing to address hate speech, which was the fundamental motivation for the tragic Christchurch terrorist attacks," said Sunita Bose, the managing director of the Digital Industry Group, an advocacy group representing Facebook, Google and other companies. "With the vast volumes of content uploaded to the internet every second, this is a highly complex problem that requires discussion with the technology industry, legal experts, the media and civil society to get the solution right -- that didn't happen this week."

44 of 259 comments (clear)

  1. Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by walterbyrd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Or prove that heavy metal music, or video games cause violence.

    Does the Koran cause violence?

    1. Re:Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Evil people will do evil things on their own, but it takes religion to make a good man do evil things.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by Dunbal · · Score: 2

      Since when did proof have anything to do with politics?

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    3. Re:Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Crusades

      A justified reaction against Islamic aggression.

    4. Re:Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I get the sentiment behind the remark, but the truth is that it takes surprisingly little to get a good (or perhaps just regular) person to do evil. Milgram showed that all you needed was someone in authority telling you that it was okay, and although it wasn't a methodologically sound study, the Stanford prison experiment suggests that people might be willing to assume that mantel of authority all by themselves and act out the evil they believe is expected of them.

      I look at religion not as cosmic truth, but as early human attempts to keep people from evil. It's certainly as susceptible to corruption as much as any institution, and definitely a tool for controlling a population, but humans are downright savage. If we appear nice and moral today, it's thanks to progress and an abundance of resources. Remove that and we'd be at each other's throats in short order.

    5. Re:Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Crusades

      A justified reaction against Islamic aggression.

      No it wasn't. Read about that in this book. "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds " Charles MacKay.

      I'm the first one to bash Islam for being a backwards stiffing misogynist religion, but the Crusades were not their fault. It was profiteering evil Christian clergy.

      Religion is a cancer in this World and the sooner we ditch it the better for the human race.

    6. Re: Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I studied Islam for over 20 years and I lived in the Middle East for four of them. It's a fact that the Quoran mandates violence against non-muslims.

    7. Re: Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by Evtim · · Score: 4, Informative

      Oh yeah!

      So that's why the 4th crusade conquered Constantinople...to punish those pesky muslims...oh wait!

      Do you know that the Catholics apologised for this on numerous occasions?

      Do you know that this vile act is considered the chief reason for the fall of the whole Empire to the Ottomans? Which removed my country from the map for 482 years!!

      If only emperor Kaloyan had destroyed the fucking crusaders BEFORE they destroyed the riches city in the world....raping nuns on the altars....but alas he did not see the bigger danger and how could he, it took many years before it became apparent.

      Not like khan Tervel who in the 7th century helped Constantinople against the islamic hordes who had a plan to close on Europe from Spain and Byzantium. They succeeded in the west but not in the east.

      So, thank you crusaders for saying thank you to Byzantium and Bulgaria for saving all your Christian asses by pillaging, raping, burning and killing of your brothers and sisters by faith. The historians traveling with the crusaders admit that Orthodox Christians were treated worse than the Saracens.

      BTW, I'm not excusing the Ottomans for any of their inhuman atrocities committed against us (ask the Armenians too).
      Google Januarius McGahan and read....
      BTW the NZ motherfucker had inscriptions in Cyrillic on the gun and cartridges mentioning the struggle of all if us East Europeans against the turks. Fuck him! Erdogan is a piece of shit but I refuse to hate an entire nation or religion because of some wrongdoing in the past. But I won't forget it either...

      Read some history, man!

    8. Re:Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Christianity and all other modern religions underwent reformations in the past 15 centuries. Islam has not. It's just as backwards as it was centuries ago.

    9. Re:Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by fazig · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I usually avoid these topics. But allow me a bit of whataboutery here (well not exactly that).

      These are the post 9/11 reactionary measures that governments are pushing all around the world after being empowered by such tragedies. A most disgusting method if you ask me.
      And in the face of such events, where fear is still at its peak, it is also the best situation for political parties and or governments to propose and push through the erosion of our liberties. People are likely to cheer for them and shut up critical discourse with platitudes.

    10. Re: Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      I studied Islam for over 20 years and I lived in the Middle East for four of them. It's a fact that the Quoran mandates violence against non-muslims.

      You do not need to have lived in the Middle East for that. Just google the Quran: I mean, it's not like the whole thing isn't on the internet in various translations. Then, google "violent bits of the Quran" (or similar terms) to get pointers to which parts of it contain such material. Then read that. What you will find there really leaves nothing to the imagination. In a number of places violence against non-believers is explicitly mandated, with no wiggle room.

      If this were any other text except the holy book of Muslims, it would be banned.

    11. Re:Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by SirAstral · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is utter flapping bullshit. Religion is not the problem, never has been.

      Evil people are evil, they just USE religion as an excuse to be or act out what they ALREADY ARE! You don't need religion to justify it either, secular people have no problem murdering, hurting, trash talking, abusing, and marginalizing other people just the same as people with a religion.

      At the very end there is only 1 religion. the religion of you trying to make people live the way you want them to... its called society... that IS the religion and the only one that exists. You can center it around 1 god, multiple gods, no gods, or humans. It is all the same... people coming up with some excuse, scheme, idea, policy, law, regulation, or rule people have to follow to be accepted into that society or risk getting excluded. Every religion and non-religious group has jails and a desire to put anyone they decide they do not like in jails so they are out of society.

      Saying religion is the root of all evil when it is actually just "humans" being evil just shows that you have a nasty bias that creates a serious deficit of intellectual honesty in your logic!

    12. Re: Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Misrepresent much???

      My reading of the Quran tells me that violence is condoned in the event of an attack by an oppressive host which does not tolerate Islamic worship, and as retaliation for other acts of violence.

      In the absence of such provocations, peace and amity are enjoined.

      One could say that this policy matches that followed by the nation of Israel.

      Either you are misrepresenting or you have not studied the matter fully.

    13. Re:Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      The law is inherently broken. Just because you have video of an incident does not mean the incident occurred. Take a typical action move, chock a block full of abhorrent content, which you can be fined for, until you can prove, legally prove it is fake. Flip side for real abhorrent content, it is by law, not real until it is proven to be real in a court of law.

      Quite simply it is up to the state to prove it is real prior to demanding a social media site take it down. How do you separate real from fake but in a court of law, the legislation is broken from the get go because it puts the onus on individuals to, I suppose use psychic abilities to ascertain the truth or illusion in the video.

      Clause 474.32 Abhorrent violent conduct, gives a list of violent acts but those acts can only be defined in a court of law, until it is proven, the person accused of those acts is innocent and by definition, those violent acts do not yet exist, until they are proven to exist in a court of law. For those acts to exist, they must be proven to exist in a court of law, until then, the person accused of them is innocent and has not committed those acts and those acts do not yet legally exist. The problem should be apparent. Those crimes do not exist, till they have been proven to exist and as such under law, that content should be considered FAKE, until it is proven REAL.

      Dumb law.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    14. Re: Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by greythax · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And it's a fact that the bible mandates violence against people who take the lord's name in vain. Your point?

    15. Re:Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by stealth_finger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Saying religion is the root of all evil when it is actually just "humans" being evil just shows that you have a nasty bias that creates a serious deficit of intellectual honesty in your logic!

      Yeah but it's a lot easier when you can say 'This is gods plan' or 'god told me to do it' or 'its in the fucking bible' and move responsibility rather than take it yourself. Being a dick to others it literally codified in the books. Yes, people are dicks, but religious people are generally bigger ones.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    16. Re:Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by dbialac · · Score: 2

      So now videos of 9/11 are illegal in Australia?

    17. Re:Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Saying religion is the root of all evil when it is actually just "humans" being evil just shows that you have a nasty bias that creates a serious deficit of intellectual honesty in your logic!

      It's religion that has a serious deficit of intellectual honesty, and logic... and those deficits are inherent. Religion turns well-meaning people into evil people by giving them a sense of justness which they do not deserve. It teaches people to make decisions on specious bases, and to feel smug about them, which is why it's inherently harmful.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    18. Re: Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I refuse to hate an entire nation or religion because of some wrongdoing in the past. But I won't forget it either...

      It's ridiculous not to abhor all religion based on what it's done in the past, given that it's not materially different today and can do all the same stuff again.

      Religion teaches some people to feel superior to other people because they believe something stupid. As such, it is all harmful.

      Religions which promote theocracy are especially bad, which is why Islam is particularly bad. It explicitly teaches that any laws not of god are inferior to those which are of god, and sets itself up as the voice of god. Theocracy always leads to abuse. ALWAYS.

      Any religion can used for the basis of theocracy, so that's another bad thing about all religions. But religions which are deliberately theocratic are especially awful.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    19. Re:Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by fazig · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Atheism is as much a religion as turning off the TV is a TV channel.

      The official religion of Communism, which has pretty much all the qualities of a religion, is Communism itself.
      This is pretty evident by the fact that virtually all of the great communist leaders have had themselves elevated to a godlike status as the fathers of the nation. They created huge personality cults around themselves, which celebrated them in various ways not unlike some kind of religious guru figure.
      This is probably also the main reason why communist leaders persecuted other religion, because they wanted citizens to have no other gods besides of themselves.

    20. Re:Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      So it seems all it takes is an authority that lets you say "he made me do it".

      Ok, so it takes religion to feel good about it...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    21. Re: Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      I studied Islam for over 20 years and I lived in the Middle East for four of them. It's a fact that the Quoran mandates violence against non-muslims.

      I thought slashdot was completely beyond up-modding appeals to authority, not less the authority of an anonymous coward. I have been on Slashdot for over 20 years and it's a fact all people who modded that post insightful deserve to have their mod points taken away from them.

    22. Re:Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is utter flapping bullshit. Religion is not the problem, never has been.

      No *that* is bullshit. Religion while not the only problem most definitely is a big problem. People aren't born evil. They don't pass through the vagina with a leather jacket, knuckleduster in hand and swastika tattoos and crosses. Being evil is something that is learned.

      Religion is an appeal of authority from an unknown force. That authority is used to radicalise and mold people's beliefs. That very authority is incompatible with the idea that any other authority can exist which is why fundamentally all religions claim they are the one true religion and that false worshipers are enemies.

      In many cases it is the existence of religion itself which has made people evil. It is the authority of religion that has caused evil people to spread evil unto others. And above all, a great many evil acts have been done *in the name of* religion, not "excused by", "not in defense of" but actively "in the name of" religion.

      Religion isn't the root of all evils. It is however a hell of a big contributor as both the source and the spread of evil.

      By the way you need to die infidel. My holy book has said so and my holy man decreed it so, and he has the backing of god so therefore he can't be evil. Now come heather so I can do the will of god and rid the world of your evil.

    23. Re: Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by rossz · · Score: 2, Informative

      There are over a billion Muslims. Mostly in India and Indonesia. If you don't think that the ones committing all the violence are a fringe group, then you are vastly underestimating the damage a billion people could do, if they really wanted to.

      Based on polls, it isn't fringe group of muslims who support violence. By definition, fringe group would constitute a fraction of a percentage of the people. Here's just a sampling of the opinion polls:

      Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
      43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
      38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
      15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
      13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
      12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
      7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
      http://cnsnews.com/node/53865 (Pew Global Attitudes Project September, 2009)

      Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam (Wikileaks cable)
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...

      Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
      http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/...

      NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
      http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...
      http://www.webcitation.org/5xk...

      NOP Research: Hardcore Islamists comprise 9% of Britain's Muslim population;
      Another 29% would "aggressively defend" Islam;
      http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...
      http://www.webcitation.org/5xk...

      Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
      86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
      30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
      76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
      51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
      http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/0...

      --
      -- Will program for bandwidth
    24. Re: Prove that youtube videos cause violence? by Solandri · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's what the Old Testament (the Jewish Torah) teaches.

      The New Testament that's the basis of Christianity overturns all those Old Testament rules and replaces them with a new one - "love one another." And no this doesn't mean just other Christians; it means everyone

      (This is why I facepalm at Christians who try to put the Ten Commandments up on a pedestal, because clearly they haven't read the New Testament enough.)

  2. I'm sure this will have no unintended consequences by alvinrod · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm sure that this will work out perfectly fine and absolutely no unintended consequences will arise as a result.

  3. Punchable face by ruddk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So is it enough if you comment that someone has a “punchable face”? ;)

  4. Re:I'm sure this will have no unintended consequen by sycodon · · Score: 2

    Zukerberg is nervously asking his lawyers if there is an extradition treaty between Australia and the US.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  5. Wow... by MitchDev · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Almost everything native to Australia is poisonous and deadly, and they have nonsense like this now?

    I think the country itself, the very land, is trying to get rid of all the humans living there....

    1. Re:Wow... by religionofpeas · · Score: 4, Funny

      Almost everything native to Australia is poisonous and deadly, and they have nonsense like this now?

      Videos of the outdoors in Australia are banned from now on.

  6. Mass censorship incoming by danbuter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The internet was a lot of fun, guys. Sadly, it's been taken over and you will only be allowed to view government-approved content in the future.

    1. Re:Mass censorship incoming by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Facebook, Google and Twitter are not "the internet". It's people's laziness that results in the web being distilled down into a single purveyor of search, porn, instant messaging, social media, etc. Logically governments everywhere like to apply force to these natural choke-points. But the internet is much, much more than these few sites and just like you can still download any show, movie or program you want even today, you will always be able to do what you want to do online. You will just have to be less lazy about it.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  7. Re:I'm sure this will have no unintended consequen by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Correct reaction by Twitter.

    You force me to comply with your law, I will comply with your law. And if I don't like that law, I will comply in the way that fucks you the most.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  8. Re:Time to start geo-blocking, tech companies... by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    Nah. Redirect those connections to your new VPN service.

    Gee, have some entrepreneurial spirit!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  9. Just snap your fingers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    All all is fixed and everything is rainbows and lollipops without any unintended consequences and it's hate speech for everyone else but OK speech for us. Yay, we're in la la land now!

  10. So will WW2 movies be banned? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I remember seeing movies of gross and violent murder, mass shootings, corpses piled up.

    Something tells me these will not be banned.

  11. This will just cause more conspiracy nuts . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Every time some tragedy happens like this, you get various conspiracy nuts out and about claiming it was some sort of false-flag. Now, when you have extensive video, like this case, it is easy to debunk. Due to the video & the manifesto the shooter produced, we clearly see who committed this crime, and his motivations behind it. If you want to actually prevent these sorts of attacks in the future, you need to understand why people do these things, and actually address the issues they bring up, rather than stick your fingers in your ears and pretend it doesn't exist.

      But if you have a government activity trying to shut down those sorts of videos, and not let people see what actually happened . . . well that is just going to encourage the conspiracy types. And honestly make me think that the Australian government plans on using this law to hide stuff.

  12. If the only tool you have is jailing people... by AnotherBlackHat · · Score: 2

    I was worried about all the fake news, hate speech, and abhorrent violent material that was appearing on the internet, but now they've passed a law - that should solve all problems.

  13. Re: I'm sure this will have no unintended conseque by c6gunner · · Score: 3, Informative

    There is but it doesn't matter; the act has to be a crime in both nations for it to qualify for extradition.

  14. Re:Yes by Joce640k · · Score: 2

    And there always a fight at a heavy metal concert but never at Barry Manillow concert - just say'in.

    That's because there's no testosterone at a Barry Manilow concert.

    --
    No sig today...
  15. Outlawing kinds of speech now? by bobbied · · Score: 3, Informative

    So, now we are outlawing specific kinds of speech? Danger is close.

    Tread lightly. It's a really slippery slope when you start down this path and something I suggest we weigh carefully before reacting emotionally.

    Where I'm all for avoiding things like yelling "fire in a theater" or "inflaming an actual riot" it's going to put us way out on the slippery slope to do this. I wonder if the risks are worth the sacrifice of freedom, if we can craft a narrow enough rule to fix the actual problem without sliding into full censorship... I'm not sure we can.

    So, what rule are you suggesting here? Specifically what and what isn't allowed? What's the problem we are trying to fix?

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  16. Re:I'm sure this will have no unintended consequen by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There will be only intended consequences. These lawmakers might not know a volt from a vault or a wire from a fire but they do have people who can explain to them that this is totally unworkable in practice. But it will create opportunities for selective enforcement, which governments absolutely adore.

    You can tell there are too many laws when the police have discretion as to who to cite, and who not to. Every major society has too many laws for actual justice to survive. If prosecution is not required for every offense, it means that there's too many offenses.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  17. Illegal material? by Dog-Cow · · Score: 2

    What is the connection with illegal material? Is it illegal to video an illegal act being performed?

  18. Re:Don't let this happen here by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Australia is run by a Murdoch-backed right wing government. But don't let that stop you pretending it's the "left" because they want to take... uh your right to die outside a hospital you can't afford to use away.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.