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Windows XP Dies Final Death As Embedded POSReady 2009 Reaches End of Life (techrepublic.com)
New submitter intensivevocoder shares a report from TechRepublic: Extended support for Windows Embedded POSReady 2009 -- the last supported version of Windows based on Windows XP -- ended on April 9, 2019, marking the final end of the Windows NT 5.1 product line after 17 years, 7 months, and 16 days. Counting this edition, Windows XP is the longest-lived version of Windows ever -- a record which is unlikely to be beaten.
Despite the nominal end of support for Windows XP five years ago, the existence of POSReady 2009 allowed users to receive security updates on Windows XP Home and Professional SP3 through the use of a registry hack. Microsoft dissuaded users from doing this, stating that they "do not fully protect Windows XP customers," though no attempt was apparently made to prevent users from using this hack. With POSReady reaching the end of support, the flow of these security updates will likewise come to an end.
Despite the nominal end of support for Windows XP five years ago, the existence of POSReady 2009 allowed users to receive security updates on Windows XP Home and Professional SP3 through the use of a registry hack. Microsoft dissuaded users from doing this, stating that they "do not fully protect Windows XP customers," though no attempt was apparently made to prevent users from using this hack. With POSReady reaching the end of support, the flow of these security updates will likewise come to an end.
I'm pretty sure that most people on Slashdot know POS really stands for "Point of Sale". But I found it amusing to read through the whole summary with "Windows" and "POS" lumped together multiple time leading the read to their own inner dialogue as to meaning...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Why would this amount to 'death'? If I had, for an example, a LabView system on my bench that ran on Windows XP, it wouldn't need to 'die' because it isn't networked to any other systems. There are lots of pieces of test equipment that embed various versions of Windows in them. At a previous job we had Unholtz-Dicke shaker tables. One had a Windows XP host, the other had a Windows 2000 host. They worked fine. They will continue to work fine.
Meanwhile, the oldest Linux kernel still supported is 3.16, first released in 2014. It won't even get to 6 years before being abandoned.
"the oldest Linux kernel still supported is 3.16, first released in 2014.
Come back when MS releases source code for the OS, so users can maintain it when they don't.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Are you overwriting the bios? Then it's not fucking bricked. Being XP era you could probably remove the eeprom and flash it yourself.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
You must be really strong, constantly moving the goalposts and all.
I thought Microsoft was just going to continue to enhance Windows 10 forever. That will certainly blow by the record set by XP.
Yes, and so what?
It's much easier to migrate to a new Linux kernel than it is to migrate from Windows XP.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Believe it or not, XP is much better than Windows 10.
At the very least, XP does not spy on the users.
I can run my code from University days in the newest Linux. Heck, Linux still supports a.out binaries from 92!
ALSO, this should include everyone who has ever gotten a copy of XP, “free” with a new computer.
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
Has it?
There's been a few comparability breaking hardware changes that make me highly skeptical you could have continually updated a system that long.
Off the top of my head G5 -> x86 -> "x86-64
I wouldn't be shocked if there were some motherboard firmware changes required for the newest version since the first 64 bit x86 hardware too.
It may not be forever, but functionally forever. Imagine at what point the limitations imposed by 64-bit computing will necessitate switching to 128 bit.
The 8 bit era lasted a while, until production capacity for memory chips made them cheap enough to make people maxing out their installed RAM a real problem. Enter 16 bit computing with the Intel 80286 chip. (Yes, I know it wasn't their first, but it was the first mass-adopted.) That lasted a little while before the Intel 80386 took things, IIRC, into the 32 bit era, which lasted a couple decades. (I could be wrong on the numbers; it's been a while since I’ve thought about these things.)
In fact, Apple still hasn’t, as far as I know, made good on their threat yet to release an OS that doesn’t have the capability of running 32-bit binaries, though that day is nigh. I think Windows 10 still can run the lower bit-width software, though as I don’t USE Windows anymore... I cannot say for sure.
We might see 128 bit processors and memory addresses in our lifetime, but unless there is some quantum-leap in digital electronic technology that takes us as far beyond current technology as the transistor did beyond the vacuum tube, I’m not holding my breath.
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
if you really need support for a linux kernel older than that (why?).
you could hire a developer to maintain it for you, costing less then it costs to buy extended support from MS.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
Why don't I use Win10 ? Well, I tried but the smallest VM I could produce is 60Gb, instead of 17Gb with XP. Try and send that via ftp... And other reasons is that I hate Win10 and also that many of the hardware drivers necessary in an industrial environment just won't install easily or at all due to tons of obscure 'security' settings that just get in the way. I know we've been complaining forever about the shitty security of Windows, but when they actually tighten shit up, it gets right in the way. And honestly, it's not like they've improved anything useful between XP and 10... I can't find a SINGLE thing that I would say: "That's nice, I wouldn't want to go without".
Non-Linux Penguins ?
Ubuntu won't even exist as a desktop OS in 2018. Shuttleworth has been pulling the plug piece by piece for a while now.
Actually that one has reversed in favor of Linux.
Support for feature updates in Win10 is only 3 years for Home/Professional now. The LTSB branch may be different, I'm not sure about the exact timeframes here.
Ubuntu LTS and Red Hat offer longer support. 5 years in case of Ubuntu, 10 for Red Hat.
C - the footgun of programming languages
Are there options for paid support like there were for general release of XP? If so, it isn't dead yet.
We have an Intravascular Ultrasound machine that we bought new in 2008. We were looking to replace it next year because, according to the vendor, it runs Windows 98 and it doesn't have an interface for our reporting systems. (An interface is required for use with our electronic medical record.)
Up until now we used it without any interface with any of our systems. The only output it gave (besides it's screen) was that it would burn CDs and had a dedicated thermal printer for 3x5" still images.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
And what is the oldest XP actually supported; Service Pack 3 - release 2008 - so 9 years. Not all the different really. Next question is SP3 really even supported or would support just tell you to apply various KBs to a theoretically supported system until it was at the patch level they actually support?
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Meanwhile, the oldest Linux kernel still supported is 3.16, first released in 2014.
If your server is still running Linux kernel 0.01 you are completely allowed (thanks to the copyleft GPL it is licensed under) to upgrade all the way to the current 5.1-rc4.
If your marchine is running Windows XP (and don't get me about Windows 2.0 or MS-DOS 2.0), you're hosed. You can't get updates for that version, and you need to buy a new "upgrade license" to get something newer. (though from time to time some of these upgrade are free).
From the point of view of how Windows is handled, Linux is a single product which only differs by build numbers.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
MS gives a big FU to anyone who foolishly built a system on their OS. Let that be a lesson.
Lesson learnt. 19 years of support for their software, clearly the absolute best in the OS industry. I can't find a Linux, BSD, Apple, or any other OS that still has that original version supported.
Almost assuredly the vast majority of users of Linux OS cannot and do not ever maintain the kernel and are not capable of doing so. What good are sticks and dry grass if one doesn't know how to employ them to make fire? Just because you CAN make fire doesn't mean the person who needs it knows how and in many cases they may not fucking care how to make it. They just want to be warm. That is what a lot of open source advocates can't seem to grasp.
No, the oldest XP that (until yesterday) that was supported was Windows Embedded POSReady 2009. The one in TFS, and the whole point of the article!
The only version of Internet Explorer Microsoft even supports anymore is IE11, and that's only through security updates.
I still have a machine that runs it. Need it to convert old legal documents when necessary. It's a dual boot Windows 3.11 and Windows 98 machine. I could virtualize them, but the machine has a 5 1/4 floppy which is often necessary.
When was the last time Apple released an os update for your10 year old laptop?
That the hardware still boots is a testament to the hardware, not the OS.
Shockingly I can go to the local goodwill computer store, pick up a 10 yr old windows laptop running XP and it will still boot -what does that prove?
MS supported XP for 17 years, how long does Apple support an OS X release?
Ken
Yeah, they only supported WinXP for 17 years - compare that to something like Ubuntu LTS with its 5 years of support...oh, wait?
Ken
Not only is that legally impossible; it's also a a terrible idea.
Microsoft publishes their support lifecycle, and anyone can find out exactly how long their software will be supported. Occasionally they extend it (as was the case with XP), but they are not obligated to do so.
If treating the end of support like a drop-dead date makes their OS an unappealing purchase... then don't buy it.
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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
I can still run my FORTRAN programs (written before Linus Torvoldsbought his 80386 computer) from college on MVS, so what?
Ken
This gives me nostalgia for my VIC20 and C64. There were never any OS updates. Nice. If only Windows shipped on a ROM cartridge.
United States
I'd love to hear the thought process behind this one, considering that Ubuntu seems to be the only commercial Linux manufacturer actually invested in supporting the desktop releases. Red Hat and SuSE seem to be happy with slapping a copy of Gnome and LibreOffice on the server version.
MS supported XP for 17 years, how long does Apple support an OS X release?
Warranty + 1 minute
This is a cool challenge. I've worked in medical diagnostics as a sysop (in the 90s). One of my many tasks was networking live diagnostic machines, including DOS, 95, and 98 based.
I have many ideas but I'm not sure of the FDA or whatever regulations about making changes. And the first thing would be to "image" the hard disk, if you have admin access...
Is this machine otherwise in good working order and you'd rather not replace it?
And I just realized I'm not far from you geographically.
They say it's dead, but you can still download a free, fully functional 32-bit version of XP encased in a virtual machine (Windows Virtual PC) from Microsoft's web site! It's called "Windows XP Mode."
Your timeline is a bit out.
The DOS-based line included everything up to WfW 3.11 (or 3.2 in China), 95, 98 and ME, albeit MS went to some lengths to stop you booting into real mode with ME.
The NT line started in 1992 with NT 3.1, then went through 4, 2000 (Workstation was renamed to Pro), XP, Vista and so on.
Commodore 64 had at least three different versions of its underlying ROM, and upgrades were a thing. It was a whole different ball of wax back then, but they existed.
The fact is that you can take most programs that ran on Windows 3.11 and run them on Windows 10
Only if you restrict yourself to 4GB of RAM and use 32-bit Windows 10. That software is 16-bit and can't run when the CPU is in 64-bit mode.
throwing an error I didn't even know existed (something about reaching the max size that version of checkdisk can check, and to run the check within Windows instead, I believe).
Probably a hard drive over 32GB on FAT32 upgraded when the last hard drive died. And that drive probably had to be formatted on another newer computer. The last time I replaced a hard drive in a computer that old, I just stuck a CF card on an IDE adapter to get a smaller capacity and make life easier.
Almost assuredly the vast majority of users of Linux OS cannot and do not ever maintain the kernel and are not capable of doing so. What good are sticks and dry grass if one doesn't know how to employ them to make fire? Just because you CAN make fire doesn't mean the person who needs it knows how and in many cases they may not fucking care how to make it. They just want to be warm. That is what a lot of open source advocates can't seem to grasp.
Most people only do a few things themselves, the question is whether you have a choice of venue. They don't repair their own car, but they care if they can take it to a third party mechanic or if you need first party service and first party parts and it runs on first party gas. There's a helluva lot of people in the server space that has figured this out. The problem is more that of cost distribution, if you download it for free 99%+ will only generate bug reports, feature requests, requests for documentation/explanation/assistance and whatnot. If you try to charge them for support up front almost nobody would sign up. If you start charging them professional developer rates + overhead that's disproportional to what they get for a COTS license. And that's why they feel they can't actually go anywhere else anyway, because they're not a big enough fish.
Imagine you have a stream of bugs/feature requests. First you have to triage and make sure it's well defined, then make an estimate. Then you have to ask for money to fix it and usually they'll say no or haggle. Already here you've probably wasted enough time that any fix is >$100 just to break even. Then you have to actually write the code and tests/documentation, get it reviewed/merged and then you got billing disputes and paying taxes and... there's a reason open source projects prefer a tip jar, even if they don't get much it's not worth chasing contracts/bug bounties that only give beer money. But a tip jar isn't really freedom, it's just putting money in a lottery machine hoping they'll take care of your pet problem.
Meanwhile COTS companies take all those $20 licenses by the thousands and get developers to fix the common problems and things that are just clunky and generate a lot of noise. You're paying into a pool where a lot of things have been fixed and are being fixed, even though they might never get around to your issue. Yes that sucks sometimes but the average person just isn't ready to pay the hundreds if not thousands to dollars to get someone to look at this issue and fix it because you're the one who want it fixed. I write custom software for work, I know my own paycheck and there's very little I personally would want fixed that badly.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
LTSB/LTSC has 10 years of support from the date of release, so the 1607 LTSB release runs out in October of 2026.
http://aka.ms/lifecycle is where all of this lives. The search keywords are LTSB (for the old releases) and LTSC (for the new release).
Grumbling about the name change is recommended. I did.
Yes, but the post I responded to asked who held onto Windows for Workgroups 3.11.
Yes, and so what?
It's much easier to migrate to a new Linux kernel than it is to migrate from Windows XP.
I challenge you to upgrade from 2.4.x series kernel (Released at the same time as Windows XP) to a modern kernel. You'll be begging for a windows 10 upgrade screen by the time you have a bash prompt and realised nothing else is working.
Offering something for download doesn't mean it's not dead in technological terms.
Win10 LTSB tracks the same as Windows Server. Not coincidentally, the Windows Server lines are based on LTSB Win10 codebases. Windows Server 2016 under the hood is Windows 10 1607 which had an LTSB version and Windows Server 2019 is basically the server version of Windows 10 1809. The Win10 LTSB versions are supported for 5 years of "mainstream" support (performance fixes and enhancements) and 10 years of "extended" support (security and bug fixes only).
I'm fairly sure though that you can only access the LTSB version with a volume licensing agreement. It's meant for slow-moving businesses, not home users.
ALSO, this should include everyone who has ever gotten a copy of XP, “free” with a new computer.
To whatever moron rated this "Flamebait":
It's not, you fucking MICROSHILL.
WE FUCKING PAID FOR MICROSOFT'S GODDAMNED, NON-SECURE-BY-DESIGN, DELIBERATELY BROKEN, INTENTIONALLY INFERIOR, SHITTY SOFTWARE, IN REAL ACTUAL MONEY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Microsoft ROBBED every customer it's ever had. It's entire leadership from inception to today should be in FUCKING PRISON
It's not flame-bait to say so. It's a valid, legitimate opinion, shared by many; likely it's shared by MOST of the F/L-OSS community, much of the GNU and Linux communities, pretty much any and everyone who has been fucked over by goddamned motherfucking MICROSOFT, which means at this point, if you live indoors, and not in a fucking cave, probably you too. Statistically speaking.
So fuck you, whoever you are, you useless, paid-off, dickless piece of shit.
NOW THIS, MAYBE, IS FLAMEBAIT. The original was not. Now you know the difference.
(There should be an official mechanism on slashdot for protesting or appealing moderators who abuse their privileges. Because anyone who thought the original post was flame-bait doesn't know what the fuck flame-bait IS.)
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
It's Win98. There's no admin. ;-)
The system works perfectly fine. There's no way anyone would think of giving approval for non-vendor software on the system. Period.
So we'll dump it and get a new box, probably by the end of the year. Hopefully the next one will last more than 10 years, but I'm skeptical.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Not only is that legally impossible; it's also a a terrible idea.
Microsoft publishes their support lifecycle, and anyone can find out exactly how long their software will be supported. Occasionally they extend it (as was the case with XP), but they are not obligated to do so.
If treating the end of support like a drop-dead date makes their OS an unappealing purchase... then don't buy it.
When about a 50 million people were compelled to buy Microsoft Windows because it came with their computer, were they made aware of this?
No. This was NOT published anywhere where decades of victims of MS Highway Robbery could have seen it. And “don’t buy it” isn’t an option when every computer maker has been illegally strong armed into including their shitware as a requirement to sell...
Look. MS was successful sued over this. Their malfeasance was proven in a court of law on numerous occasions. But thanks, it seems to governmental corruption or incompetence or a combination of the two, Microfuck was NOT broken up the way they should have been, the way Standard Oil and Ma Bell were.
Your pro-corporate “hey, take it or leave it” attitude ignores the fact that things weren’t always as they are now,
Microsoft had, through practices demonstrated in court to be not only anticompetitive but illegally so, made itself the only game in town.
Your argument would be like telling someone living in LA in the 80s that if you don’t like having to own a car, just get to work some other way.
There are no houses you can afford walking distance to work. The place you work is in LA, so relocating to another town or state isn’t an option. There’s no public transport either TO where in the LA metroplex where you work nor one in the suburbs where you live. Bicycling is not an option because in that time and place, bike lanes were a new idea and not everywhere HAD them.
You simply had to own a car if you wanted to have that job and weren’t conveniently already filthy stinking RICH. SO when someone says, you don’t HAVE to own a car... it’s really pretty laughable.
Sure. Just hitchhike to work. Or walk 7 hours each way twice daily. Carpool (before that was a thing...) which means invent carpooling, basically... also be lucky enough to HAVE someone near enough to you...
Having a Wintel computer (that’s actually what they were called, from WINDOWS and Intel) in the 80s or 90s or even early 00s was ESSENTIAL for a LOT of things and MS parasitically FED off everyone basically.
There wasn’t a legally usable free alternative then, certainly not one anyone was writing software for. BSD wasn’t really a thing yet, UNIX was still proprietary, Apple’s Mac OS was a joke that only worked on Apple’s overpriced computers which mostly people weren’t writing software for either... and Linux (and GNU) wasn’t a thing yet either.
There were no iPads or iPods nor iPhones or iFads or iBlads or even iVlads (what Putin uses). You kids nowadays are spoiled. And you don’t even know it.
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.