Apple Music Caught Censoring Pro-Democracy Music In China (gizmodo.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Gizmodo: Chinese journalists and netizens recently found that Apple Music's Chinese streaming service censored a song by Hong Kong singer Jacky Cheung that references the 1989 Tiananmen Square pro-democracy protests, an extremely politically sensitive topic for the Chinese Communist Party. The incident's 30th anniversary is coming up in June. Sophie Richardson, the China Director at Human Rights Watch, called the reported move "spectacularly craven." The Tiananmen protests are emblematic of a larger pro-democracy movement in China that was snuffed out by the Beijing government. Thousands of protesters were killed, but the exact numbers have themselves been censored by Chinese government officials.

Apple Music has also reportedly censored Anthony Wong and Denise Ho, two pro-democracy singers. After being noticed by Chinese netizens, the removals were reported by the Hong Kong Free Press and The Stand, two Hong Kong-based news outlets. Taiwan News also reported the censorship of Cheung's "Ren Jian Dao." The music remains available on Apple Music's North American products. "By removing a song referring the Tiananmen Massacre, @apple is actively participating in the Chinese Communist Party's agenda of scrubbing the colossal violations it has committed against the Chinese people from collective memory and rewriting history," tweeted Yaqiu Wang, a Chinese researcher with Human Rights Watch.

Comments

Democracy

[The Altruist]

Because nothing is more threatening to a walled garden.

Re:Democracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Because nothing is more threatening to a walled garden.

That statement may not be understood by the masses as well as you assume.

The only "walled garden" most Americans know about is the first-world problem of the iGarden, which ironically is run by a liberal company within a democracy.

Re:Democracy

[stealth_finger]

Are they expecting apple to take a stand when money is involved or something? Can't see it happening to be honest.

Re:Democracy

[DickBreath]

Think Different!

Just like everyone else. Don't rock the boat. Rebrand 'prison camp' to 'walled garden'.

How dare you think you should be able to make a repair instead of buying the latest thing we tell you to buy!

Complaining about the lack of a headphone jack is a sign of cowardice comrad.

Re:Democracy

[Anonymous Coward]

There is close to 0% evidence Apple is in any way liberal. Cook has spent more time wagging Trump's arm then the GOP.

For a company hell bent on protecting the privacy of individuals by telling the FBI to essentially go fuck themselves, they certainly don't act like an organization that supports the Right mentality of the surveillance state.

Tim is also gay, runs a company that will likely never be involved in military defense, and lives in California. Not sure the liberal undertones could be any more obvious than that.

Re: Democracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Liberals love surveillance and censorship; Tim Cook isn't parading around in a multi-dildo suit; and you dimwits screech each time Trump brings more of our boys home.

Sounds pretty centrist, if not outright conservative. I think you're confused: conservatives told the religious right to duck off after Bush, while your team strapped on jackboots. (With velcro because laces are too hard and also racist.)

Re:Democracy

[Anonymous Coward]

So Apple and Google are bringing technology and culture and change maybe a little more gradually. So what if the government wants some small controls in place because they're kinda nervous or whatever?

Re:Democracy

[Darinbob]

Stepping back a bit, Apple will likely never make money from military defense even if they wanted to, so avoiding that market doesn't hurt Apple very much. However telling China to go shove off will cost them billions in profits. It's easy to hold up to one's own ideals when money is not involved.

When there's a lot of money on the table is becomes much easier to rationalize things away, justify your actions, blame others, and do forth. Such as saying that the board of directors is giving the orders and not yourself, saying that by being in the Chinese market it helps to promote democracy as a long game, and so forth.

Re:Democracy

[Anonymous Coward]

For a company hell bent on protecting the privacy of individuals by telling the FBI to essentially go fuck themselves, they certainly don't act like an organization that supports the Right mentality of the surveillance state.

They gather all your information in one place because they have the outward appearance of valuing privacy and you just take at face value their public statements? Now they're getting into the credit business which requires them to participate in the credit-reporting system, you don't think that Apple knowing everything about you might come back to bit you once they move on from Apple Card to Apple Home Loan? Putting all your trust and data into a single for-profit corporation is inherently stupid.

Re:Democracy

[Anonymous Coward]

"inherently stupid" is used too often to define the blind apple worshipper.

Re:Democracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Your missing the point. Apple will do anything that provides them with a profit. The real point is why don't all the cheerleaders of human rights invasive government surveillance give China a free pass for the authoritarian and repressive actions? While the US catches shit for anything they do in the ME China has been sending Muslims by the millions to "re-education camps" while the "global community" stands silent.

Business as usual

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is not in the business of free speech, they're in the business of making money. If censoring one song means they can keep making money, they will.

Re: Business as usual

[Anonymous Coward]

So whatever makes them money is OK with you?

Re: Business as usual

[dmomo]

I'm not sure he said anything was OK.

Re: Business as usual

[ShanghaiBill]

Companies are required to obey the law. Apple didn't make the law requiring certain terms and topics to be censored in China, but they are required to obey it, just like they are required to obey censorship laws in other countries, including America.

It is not the job of western corporations to "fix" China. That is up to the Chinese.

Re: Business as usual

[Anonymous Coward]

Same AC as above. It's not OK with me, but apparently it's OK with them. I'm just explaining the rationale. I didn't make any judgments whether it's good or bad, right or wrong. Apple will do whatever they want to do anyway.

Re:Business as usual

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is not in the business of free speech, they're in the business of making money. If censoring one song means they can keep making money, they will.

We were just going along with orders mein herr!

Re: Business as usual

[stealth_finger]

So whatever makes them money is OK with you?

It's certainly ok with apple.

Re: Business as usual

[DickBreath]

He's not necessarily saying it is OK. Just saying how it actually is.

For example I can say: Trump is president.

That does not mean I am saying it is OK or Not OK for that matter. It is just a simple fact.

It is a simple fact that Apple, like any publicly traded corporation, will do anything to make money without any moral consideration whatsoever. That is their legal duty as a publicly traded corporation.

Re: Business as usual

[Anonymous Coward]

>it was just an observation
It was a justification.

Re: Business as usual

[larryjoe]

Companies are required to obey the law. Apple didn't make the law requiring certain terms and topics to be censored in China, but they are required to obey it, just like they are required to obey censorship laws in other countries, including America.

The Chinese government kills people deemed to be threats. Apple, Google, et al. obey Chinese censorship laws. People outside of China (e.g., on slashdot) criticize China and Apple, Google, et al., and that initial criticism is further criticized.

This is all as it should be in a civil society, with the possible exception of the first part.

It is not the job of western corporations to "fix" China. That is up to the Chinese.

Here on slashdot, we're not trying to fix China. The China detractors are under no delusion that they have any non-zero influence on the Chinese government. Rather, these discussions and criticisms of China are for our benefit, not for China's. The hope is that such discussions in countries that allow citizens to challenge and criticize the government will prevent/blunt similar abuses in those countries.

Re: Business as usual

[Darinbob]

Companies are required to obey the laws of the countries that they do business in, that is true. There is no requirement however that a company must to business in all countries. There's a greed factor that keeps Apple in China.

There's also a sort of middle ground. Be slow and lax to respond to the law. They could let these songs be available for one or two weeks before shutting them off, letting them get out there while still being able to say "whoops, we had some internal process issues preventing us from complying instantaneously." After all this is what many companies in the US do when they don't want to comply with US law, they delay, hold things up in court, drag their feet, and hope the next administration will just issue dicates absolving them.

Re: Business as usual

[Anonymous Coward]

And the SS soldiers were required to obey their orders. They didn't make the laws regarding forced exterminations and genocides, but they were required to obey it. Just like other soldiers are required to obey their commanding officers orders. It's not the job of the individual SS soldiers to question orders. They are just doing their jobs.

Re: Business as usual

[edris90]

as human beings it is their job to question any orders and make sure they agree with them and understand the implications or refuse to comply until that information is produced. That's the biggest lie that the military ever sold people was that you're not responsible for your own actions as long as someone else is paying and ordering you to do so. It is individuals refusing to comply that is our last defense against evil

Re: Business as usual

[Anonymous Coward]

It is not the job of western corporations to "fix" China. That is up to the Chinese.

The last time they tried; the Chinese government killed them.

Sensitive

[Roodvlees]

Because if you can't attack peaceful people have people accept it as okay, you're just a business.

Hypocrisy

[Anonymous Coward]

Coming from the far left who want to ban speech they don't like.

Re:Hypocrisy

[Quakeulf]

Left and right is a false dichotomy to drive divide-and-conquer so we fight each others instead of those who push this misdirection.

Re:Hypocrisy

[Anonymous Coward]

You're just saying that because both China and Apple are far-left extremists. So sorry it's not the right doing all the censoring.

No news here people, move along. AE911Truth Org

Expected

[whoda]

Everybody knew this was what they were going to do in China, no matter what they said, right?

TRANSLATION (IMHO)!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

"An American international company CAUGHT following/respecting local laws in a country they do business!!! Why American international companies do not try to be SJW & fight against local governments everywhere in the world??? Who will save the world, if American companies don't??? Who will force democracy to whole world, if American companies don't???"

Be best.

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is obeying the law, something libtards on slashdot.org wulndt understand.

It is the law of their country

[aepervius]

I am sure also apple music Germany is censoring selling pro nazi song sales. We may not like the law of *their* country, but apple has to respect local laws *where ever* it sells. It is pretty much so in every country that the law of the location of the buyer is the one which applies, not the law of the seller. If they don't want to respect the law of a country, the solution is simply : don't sell to anybody in that country. Many US outfit do that if you try to go to their site with an EU address they simply throw you out and say "GDPR we don't want you". Same principle.

Re:It is the law of their country

[Anonymous Coward]

I am sure also apple music Germany is censoring selling pro nazi song sales. We may not like the law of *their* country, but apple has to respect local laws *where ever* it sells.

Yeah, always respect the local law! Some years ago, before Apple's time, you could sell those pro nazi songs just fine. As long as you didn't do business with jews. Foreign (non-German) companies could also sell 'equipment' for use in places like Auschwitz. Which some did. You may not like the laws of those times, but all trade was ok as long as local law was obeyed?

Re:It is the law of their country

[WebHikerOriginal]

Funny, no-one used this argument to defend IBM when their tech was used to count bodies in Nazi Germany, in line with the law of the country and all...

Re:It is the law of their country

[Anonymous Coward]

Just Following Orders! *smuggrin*

Re:It is the law of their country

[serviscope_minor]

I am sure also apple music Germany is censoring selling pro nazi song sales. We may not like the law of *their* country, but apple has to respect local laws *where ever* it sells.

Yeah but Germany is basically a democracy with free citizens. China is a repressive autocracy that harvests organs from political prisoners.

Supporting one is not the same as supporting the other.

If they don't want to respect the law of a country, the solution is simply : don't sell to anybody in that country.

That does seem to be what people are indeed advocating. Don't lend support to the repressive organ-harvesting regime even if there's lots of money to be made.

Music is sinful

[AHuxley]

and was curated for the Communist party.

Welcome to Communist censorship.
In free Taiwan the real China people can listen to music.
Recall the 1989 Tiananmen Square pro-democracy protests.
Talk about the history of Communist China.
Look at cartoon bears.
Read books like 1984.

Re: Music is sinful

[Anonymous Coward]

tienamen square is fake news

So?

[Anonymous Coward]

For years Walmart wouldn't sell CDs with explicit lyrics. Can the Chinese Communist Party make business harder or impossible for Apple? Are they doing what they have to do to remain eligible to serve that market?

Re:So?

[stealth_finger]

For years Walmart wouldn't sell CDs with explicit lyrics. Can the Chinese Communist Party make business harder or impossible for Apple? Are they doing what they have to do to remain eligible to serve that market?

There's a difference though between a retailer choosing not to sell something and the government mandating no one can.

Re:So?

[dk20]

So.. what about all the words you cant say on TV? The US govt seemed ok having the FCC fine people for saying specific words.

There was also Prohibition, where due to "social standards" liquor was "banned".

Then the Gold law, where you were forced to sell all gold to the US GVT at set prices.

Re:So?

[stealth_finger]

There was also Prohibition, where due to "social standards" liquor was "banned".

And how did that turn out?

Correct song name

[Anonymous Coward]

That song by Jacky Cheung is originally in Cantonese and its name should be "Yan Gaan Dou".

It is sad that even songs from Hong Kong in Cantonese are now only described everywhere only in Mandarin. This is how culture gets destroyed.

Re:Correct song name

[Anonymous Coward]

isnt cantonese what they speak in canton province, China as well as Hong Kong, China?

Re:Correct song name

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but the point is that HK culture, including the Cantonese language, is gradually but constantly being diminished. It's worse in Canton province in mainland China of course, but it's also been happening in HK since 1997.

The PRC knows that killing a language and its culture would help suppress voices for freedom and self-rule. It's happened before (and happening) in Tibet and East Turkestan. Even in Shanghai, increasingly fewer and fewer Shanghai people know how to speak the native Shanghai language.

More hypocrisy

[Anonymous Coward]

So by this logic Apple should sell banned items in other countries. Like music that is pro nazi in Germany or songs that disparage the prophet in Turkey? I think the left and specially Gizmodo and notorious apple hate site are insane now.

apple is all RED China they will even unlock phone

[Joe_Dragon]

apple is all RED China they will even unlock phones there but not help the FBI at all.

Local Company Follows Local Laws

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine if companies followed US Law in the United States.

It's in Apple's DNA

[jenningsthecat]

Apple has a history of censoring content in its platforms. In this it seems that they're no different from many other major players. That's probably not surprising, given the symbiotic relationship between big corporations and governments. But there's an inconsistency here. On the one hand, Apple actively opposes US law enforcement's efforts to compromise users' private data. On the other hand, they seem to get behind censorship in a big way, sometimes even in support of totalitarianism.

People behave inconsistently - I guess entities that enjoy 'corporate personhood' exhibit similar behaviour.

Liberals = shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, the left is the censorship movement.

I like the "both sides are equally bad" arguments from liberals. Its them finally admitting liberals are shit and they know it. They use the "both sides are equally bad" to justify them staying liberal even thought they know it is shit.
Other great liberal positions:
Support KKK member as VA gov
Support serial rapist as VA lt. gov
Support killing live born babies and calling it abortion
Support illegals killing US citizens and protect them from consequences like jail or deportation in "sanctuary cities"
Fight against reducing taxes/regulation that has helped minorities get jobs or paid more
Lie for 2 years about Russian collusion despite them knowing there was no evidence because they can't argue against Trump policy on merits
Attempt to remove meritocracy and raise people based on identity politics, then call themselves "Native American" to take advantage so they don't have to work hard
Censor gays/women/blacks from giving public speeches at Berkley and on Twitter/Facebook/Youtube

Yea, both are equally bad. Only problem is only liberals are promoting legalizing killing live born babies.
Liberals = shit and now you know it and admitted it.

Re:Liberals = shit

[stealth_finger]

Really pining for the fjords aren't you.

Re:Liberals = shit

[Austerity Empowers]

Nope, the left is the censorship movement.

When you can make your point without name calling and using racial or ethnic slurs, I might be inclined to support at least your right to speak. If you can't do that, then nothing you say has value.

When the points you make are not supportable by good data, people are inclined to filter you out because who cares what you say based on things you either made up or are just spreading around because your friend said it. If you have a valid argument that is being censored, make your case. Everything you posted here sounds like either pure bullshit, or highly political equivocations that if I weren't really bored right now, I would just ignore.

I like the "both sides are equally bad" arguments from liberals. Its them finally admitting liberals are shit and they know it. They use the "both sides are equally bad" to justify them staying liberal even thought they know it is shit.

Let's not talk about generalities then, go on to specifics.

Other great liberal positions:
Support KKK member as VA gov
Support serial rapist as VA lt. gov

I don't think it has been proven he is, or was in the KKK, just that he appeared that way in a play or something. I think his political career might, as a result, be limited from this point forward. However this wasn't known when he was elected.

Lt. Gov may also have a very limited future if the charges are true, again, not a known thing. It's bizarre to point this out as proof of liberal hypocrisy, I'm fairly certain if these were known beforehand, the candidates would not have even been on the ballot.

Support killing live born babies and calling it abortion

Reference? This sounds absurd.

Support illegals killing US citizens and protect them from consequences like jail or deportation in "sanctuary cities"

This sounds hyperbolic. Sanctuary cities aren't for harboring known criminals, and protection from deportation from an agenda standpoint extends only to resident illegal aliens who are otherwise not criminals.

There may be incidences of things not working that way, but that's not the talking point, you're either making that up or distorting the truth for some other purpose, and yes, people are going to ignore you or filter you out.

Fight against reducing taxes/regulation that has helped minorities get jobs or paid more

This is a highly political statement. You need to break it into distinct facts. The problem is that when you do, the evidence is not going to clearly support your thesis. The notion that xyz bill is good for, or bad for, some audience is usually complete bullshit no matter who argues it. Once you go through them, it becomes clear who the beneficiary is, it's almost never about the middle or lower classes.

Either way your statement on its own is worthless. I wouldn't print it.

Lie for 2 years about Russian collusion despite them knowing there was no evidence because they can't argue against Trump policy on merits

Russian collusion is a proven fact, there is no argument about this topic. There are good reasons they did not want Hillary to win, and there's no doubt the Trump presidency has held favorable policies towards Russia.

What is unproven is that Trump directly colluded, was at all aware of it, or that his policies towards Russia are at all related to this.

Attempt to remove meritocracy and raise people based on identity politics, then call themselves "Native American" to take advantage so they don't have to work hard

This is where you start to get censored. You are mixing ideas up and confusing them to make a bizarre point.

Meritocracy is a very dubious system even without mixing in affirmative action or identity politics. Competition, in general, as a form of producing optimal results is not in all or even most cases ideal. Competition without rules and without a referee tends to be destructive and counter-produ

Re:Liberals = shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Only read your first sentence. There were no ethnic slurs, you lied because you can't help but be shit.

Look back over last 4 years and see EVERY liberal calling me a racist, bigot, homophobe and you not ONCE calling them out.
You are also shit. The DNC/liberals ARE the party of the KKK (see gov of VA) there is no debating it. You don't like being called shit or a racist, then don't support the KKK.
Don't support killing live born babes, don't support illegals killing US citizens and calling us racists for saying that is a bad stance. It did happen, San Francisco is PROTECTING the illegal alien that killed Kate Stynley and the DNC in Congress REFUSES to pass a law that might prevent it happening again.

This asshole calls out one side for pointing out his guys are shit and giving specific examples of why, but he gives a pass for years of name calling from him and his buddies.
Like I said... Liberals = shit

Re:Liberals = shit

[Austerity Empowers]

There's a reason people don't listen to you, and you find yourself and your opinions not making it very far, and it has nothing to do with your politics.

Re:Liberals = shit

[magarity]

Look back over last 4 years and see EVERY liberal calling me a racist, bigot, homophobe and you not ONCE calling them out.

Referring to your history while using AC makes no sense. Going by posting history it is the AC who is the biggest racist, bigoted, *phobe ever. As for politics, AC is radically marxist, libertarian to the point of anarchy, and a totalitarian theocrat all at the same time.

Re:Liberals = shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahh, the modern left. The party of projection. Classical liberals are great. Too bad there are seemingly none left.

There's a reason people don't listen to you

Projection! Someone said they did not listen to your tirade because of you lying in the first sentence. Of course the mature thing to do is say the same thing back.

Re:Liberals = shit

[Anonymous Coward]

"Russian collusion is a proven fact, there is no argument about this topic."

Citation please.

Re:Liberals = shit

[Darinbob]

The Right is also the censorship movement. The Left and Right are both highly in favor of restricting speech that they disapprove of, it's just not the same speech that they want suppressed.

On the Right I see many who want to suppress right to have a free choice of religion (ie, anti-muslim), the right to give advice on abortions, and so forth. Historically the Right was for suppressing free speech with obscenity cases and pornography. Right wing governments across the planet are restricting the free press.

To claim that only the Left favors censorship just labels you as a partisan who is more interested in dividing than uniting.

Re:Liberals = shit

[Anonymous Coward]

More shit from the left.

94% of news stories about Trump negative. None of them censored.
Most conservatives blocked on Twitter/Facebook/YouTube/Google, including black women like Candice Owens. You don't see a problem because it is a black woman being censored, says a lot about you.

Claims of the left are all shit and lies. Easily proven with a minute or two of looking up for yourself. He hates blacks and thinks they should be censored and sees no issue with it, he DOES have issues with CNN being censored but can't provide first example of it because it hasn't happened. Closest thing is Acosta kicked out of White House for attacking intern, CNN was still allowed in just Acosta was banned for the attack, which isn't censorship just protecting people who work in WH.

welcome to China

[v1]

This article can be summed up with "company respects sovereignty of a country, and I'm outraged!"

Anyone doing business in China has to follow the laws, even if they don't align with the typical morals of the country where the business is based.

"Obey our laws or get out of China." It's just that simple.

TFA makes it sound like they have some magical 3rd choice and they're being evil for not "doing the right thing". It's pretty self-evident that they don't want to pack up and leave China, and removing a few songs from their store there (that are basically illegal to distribute in China) is a very small price to pay for them to stay in the market. Apple isn't above the law in China, they mow down large crowds of people trying to push this song's message, you don't think they will kick out Apple? This article is just trying to grab some headlines by reminding us that water is wet.

Re:welcome to China

[Anonymous Coward]

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Re:welcome to China

[fortythirteen]

There is nothing wrong with expecting ethics to outweigh profit. Is a shipowner who transports slaves considered innocent if they are moving them between countries that have legalized slavery, or are we rightfully outraged by the presence of a slave trader?

Re:welcome to China

[Anonymous Coward]

This article is just trying to grab some headlines by reminding us that water is wet.

And that China's policies cannot withstand scrutiny, so scrutiny is forbidden.

Re:welcome to China

[Anonymous Coward]

Scrutiny of China's laws is up to China to impose upon itself

Re:welcome to China

[Anonymous Coward]

If by "China" you mean the people of China, I agree. If you mean the Chinese lawmakers should be the only ones scrutinizing laws, then I disagree.

Re:welcome to China

[serviscope_minor]

This article can be summed up with "company respects sovereignty of a country, and I'm outraged!"

This article can be summed up as "company makes lots of money supporting the censorship of a repressive, autocratic and deeply unpleasant regime."

"Obey our laws or get out of China." It's just that simple.

Yes and the ethical thing is to just get out.

TFA makes it sound like they have some magical 3rd choice and they're being evil for not "doing the right thing".

Not really. They're pointing out the activity. You can make whatever judgement you like about that.

a very small price to pay for them to stay in the market

Yes you can make lots of money doing deeply unethical things.

Re: welcome to China

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't see any mention of a third choice, that must be the one made of straw? I think they could take door #2, leave China. Google Search was withdrawn from China and they don't seem to be any worse off.
 
Then again, our government is already helping prop up dictatorships around the world, why not let the private sector get in on the action, right? Investing in "technology" sounds soooo much nicer than investing in "arms"... and look, they even have a gay guy!

How very, err, Google of them.

[Anonymous Coward]

Next thing they'll start actively helping the Chinese government develop new capabilities to subjugate its population.

Also just like Google already does.

Re:How very, err, Google of them.

[Anonymous Coward]

Google is significant worse. They censor conservative speach on purpose to hurt real American.

Could always pull out of China

[tepples]

Google complied with Chinese law by ceasing to do business in China. I imagine that opponents of censorship would prefer that Apple follow suit.

Re:Could always pull out of China

[stealth_finger]

Google complied with Chinese law by ceasing to do business in China. I imagine that opponents of censorship would prefer that Apple follow suit.

Good luck if anyone expects apple to choose morals when sales are on the line. And I don't think apple would be willing to risk all that sweet, sweet sweatshop labour.

Re:Could always pull out of China

[postbigbang]

That would require courage and principles in the face of profits.

Re:Could always pull out of China

[mlw4428]

As long as they still make smartphones, use any form of technology with any components from China, or hire contractors from China...Google is STILL doing business with China.

Re:Could always pull out of China

[ShanghaiBill]

There is no "moral" choice, because Apple's actions are not going to change anything either way.

These are the choices Apple faces:

1. Stay in China, and do nothing to fix China's problems.
2. Leave China, and do nothing to fix China's problems.

This is the famous Serenity Prayer:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

The problem is not that Apple lacks courage, but that you lack wisdom.

Re:Could always pull out of China

[Anonymous Coward]

Leaving China DOES do something to help solve China's problems, by demonstrating that major international corporations will refuse to do business will a genocidal tyrannical regime.

Staying in China and helping the government censor does not only not help fix China's problems, it makes them worse! It's anti-helping!

Wisdom comes in recognizing the consequences of actions. You either lack it, or you're another loser pro-China troll (which is much the same thing).

Re:Could always pull out of China

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no "moral" choice, because Apple's actions are not going to change anything either way.

That is a terribly ignorant attempt to defend the actions of a for-profit corporation. Clearly they make the situation worse by providing yet another platform that is controlled by the government, that is why Apple datacenters for the chinese market are in China, that's also why they are censoring any kind of anti-government media at the will of the ruling party.

Re:Could always pull out of China

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously we know how much morals you have. Blindly side with the greedy corporation.

Re:Could always pull out of China

[stealth_finger]

There is no "moral" choice, because Apple's actions are not going to change anything either way.

These are the choices Apple faces:

1. Stay in China, and do nothing to fix China's problems. 2. Leave China, and do nothing to fix China's problems.

This is the famous Serenity Prayer:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference.

The problem is not that Apple lacks courage, but that you lack wisdom.

There's also a difference between seeing a pool of shit and diving on in anyway because that's where the gold is and saying, I don't want to swim in this, I have enough gold.

Re: Could always pull out of China

[edris90]

China doesn't need apple, but apple wants a chance to drain China economic resources into apples international holding s. All companies are clamoring to do business with China because they are worried that China well leave them behind. I just can't stand the idea of a country that is doing economically well not funneling it into their bank accounts. U.s. is huge you think there's plenty enough money to be made here why do they even need to go to China. Apple is just being greedy .they already make enough to keep the lights on and their homes and food on their table. They don't actually need any more money or influence. Anything more than make will just be wasted on things other than making sure people have what they need.

Caught dealing in China in the first place

[tepples]

"An American international company CAUGHT following/respecting local laws in a country they do business!!!"

Could be rephrased:
"An American international company CAUGHT doing business in the first place in a country where local law requires violating human rights!!!"

Re:Caught dealing in China in the first place

[schwit1]

The 'I was just following orders' defense went out at Nuremberg.

Apple is a profits-first company just like Google. You can see this clearly as they won't withdraw from OIC nations that hang people for the crime of being gay. (Four stores in Brunei alone!) Not on the list of companies boycotting Brunei. Apples Investor Relations team would love to hear from you, Im sure.

Re:Caught dealing in China in the first place

[Anonymous Coward]

It was reinstated withMaiLai.
    The current legal status is: "Following Orders is not a valid defence if you lose the war. So fight harder for your freedom"

Apple caught Censoring NAZI movies in germany

[goombah99]

Local laws and regulations require Censoring. Look at germany. Look at France. where certain historical items are not allowed for trade like nazi gear.
And even look at the US where you have to censor crypto when sold overseas. You used not to be able to advertise if you were a lawyer. You can't advertise cigarettes near schools and other venues for minors. You also can't sell certain drugs, not just illicit drugs, in the US that are legal in europe.

Ronald Reagan banned envionmentalists from canda (Farley Mowatt).

Countries ban things that offend their sensibilities.

Re:Apple caught Censoring NAZI movies in germany

[stealth_finger]

Local laws and regulations require Censoring. Look at germany. Look at France. where certain historical items are not allowed for trade like nazi gear. And even look at the US where you have to censor crypto when sold overseas. You used not to be able to advertise if you were a lawyer. You can't advertise cigarettes near schools and other venues for minors. You also can't sell certain drugs, not just illicit drugs, in the US that are legal in europe.

Ronald Reagan banned envionmentalists from canda (Farley Mowatt).

Countries ban things that offend their sensibilities.

This is more like saying you're not allowed to talk about the whole slavery thing.

Protestor lives?

[Anonymous Coward]

So who remembers the protestor getting run over by the tank and dying and not jumping on the tank and living?

So - no Guns and Roses then?

[pecosdave]

Cause, you know, Chinese Democracy and all.

Re:No. Capitalism.

[stealth_finger]

Q: How do you console a grammar nazi?

A: There, their, they're

Freedom Rock

[Anonymous Coward]

"Is that Freedom Rock?"
"Turn it off!"

Re: Freedom Rock

[pecosdave]

I'm an old fart and I found this funny.

Straw man. Red herring.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody was arguing otherwise. Nobody disagrees.

Apple caught censoring Alex Jones in America!

[Anonymous Coward]

Alex Jones isn't even illegal in the USA, Tim Cook just has no balls.

Re:apple is all RED China they will even unlock ph

[Anonymous Coward]

The FBI are the bad guys though. They harass the President and his righteous followers. By fighting FBI snooping, Apple demonstrates their commitment to MAGA.

No. Capitalism.

[Anonymous Coward]

If the democracy that rules over me votes to create a walled garden, then I have to pay for it.

In contrast, I don't have to pay for Apple's walled garden; I don't have to buy their products.

You don't like what Apple's doing in China? Don't help fund them.
You don't like what your Government is doing in the Middle East? Tough luck; pay your fair share, comrade!

"caught"

[Anonymous Coward]

How can a hardware manufacturer who treats their users as adversaries who shouldn't be allowed to install whatever-they-want on their own computers (even after the user paid for it!!), get "caught" doing anything? That's like saying Hitler was "caught" leaving the toilet seat up, or Stalin got "caught" painting dicks on the sides of allies' tanks, or Trump got "caught" lying yet once again about something he didn't even need to lie about. Given the context, Apple coming out as being officially opposed to democracy, is a pretty minor offense.

When I lived in China there were the 3 T's and X

[Hasaf]

The Three T's and X were: Tibet, Tiananmen, Taiwan, and Xinjiang. It was made clear that we (the Westerners) had no knowledge or opinions on these topics. As such we have nothing to say about them.

One day a new assistant asked me about Tiananmen. I asked her what she knew. She told me that her history teacher told her that it was a beautiful park in Beijing where people fly kites. Her grandfather had told her something much more in line with what those of us who watched it life on TV saw.

I was not entirely sure about her at that point, so my answer to her was, "you should honour your grandfather."

She laughed and said, "that is so Chinese." However, she also understood my answer.

Re:When I lived in China there were the 3 T's and

[Hasaf]

Just to add, the X was not there when I started living in China, it was just the three T's. The X got added later.

I know...

[Anonymous Coward]

All you outraged leftists can show your disgust by not buying iPhones and Macbooks anymore.

Money better in Apple's hands than Chinese

[Anonymous Coward]

It's better that the Chinese Communists are enriching a Western company; it's better that their resources are in our hands than theirs.

Re:No. Capitalism.

[houghi]

Q: How do you console a grammar nazi?
A: telnet there their they're

Apple Stinks

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple ceased to be an American company years ago. Move your company to China you commies.

Old fake news

[Anonymous Coward]

Tiananmen Massacre is fake news; but let's just ignore all the wikileak cables.

Google partnering with Chinese gov't too

[drnb]

Google complied with Chinese law by ceasing to do business in China. I imagine that opponents of censorship would prefer that Apple follow suit.

And then Google changed its mind and started making surveilance/censorship software for China. Google has also partnered with the Chinese government.

Re: Go Eat A Rhino Cock

[Anonymous Coward]

You lack morals, ethics, and human decency. We should NUKE BEIJING and SAVE THE RHINOS.

Yeah. Fuck you Chinky! And fuck your ancestors too!

Re:When I lived in China there were the 3 T's and

[Anonymous Coward]

The Three T's and X were: Tibet, Tiananmen, Taiwan, and Xinjiang. It was made clear that we (the Westerners) had no knowledge or opinions on these topics. As such we have nothing to say about them.

Ahh, exactly how foreign views on the Jewish Problem was handled.

Re:apple is all RED China they will even unlock ph

[pauljlucas]

[citation needed]

To solved this

[Anonymous Coward]

China should just buy apple. apple already pretty much works for them.

It does not matter

[aepervius]

Whether one is a democracy or an autocracy does not matter. That way my point. No matter what you have got to respect local law or get out. So when people get angry at "apple censoring" they are either idiot not realizing they have to respect local law, or they should vote with their wallet and not buy apple (which you know as well as me won't happen).