Apple Music Caught Censoring Pro-Democracy Music In China (gizmodo.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Gizmodo: Chinese journalists and netizens recently found that Apple Music's Chinese streaming service censored a song by Hong Kong singer Jacky Cheung that references the 1989 Tiananmen Square pro-democracy protests, an extremely politically sensitive topic for the Chinese Communist Party. The incident's 30th anniversary is coming up in June. Sophie Richardson, the China Director at Human Rights Watch, called the reported move "spectacularly craven." The Tiananmen protests are emblematic of a larger pro-democracy movement in China that was snuffed out by the Beijing government. Thousands of protesters were killed, but the exact numbers have themselves been censored by Chinese government officials.

Apple Music has also reportedly censored Anthony Wong and Denise Ho, two pro-democracy singers. After being noticed by Chinese netizens, the removals were reported by the Hong Kong Free Press and The Stand, two Hong Kong-based news outlets. Taiwan News also reported the censorship of Cheung's "Ren Jian Dao." The music remains available on Apple Music's North American products. "By removing a song referring the Tiananmen Massacre, @apple is actively participating in the Chinese Communist Party's agenda of scrubbing the colossal violations it has committed against the Chinese people from collective memory and rewriting history," tweeted Yaqiu Wang, a Chinese researcher with Human Rights Watch.

Comments

Democracy

[The Altruist]

Because nothing is more threatening to a walled garden.

Re:Democracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Because nothing is more threatening to a walled garden.

That statement may not be understood by the masses as well as you assume.

The only "walled garden" most Americans know about is the first-world problem of the iGarden, which ironically is run by a liberal company within a democracy.

Re:Democracy

[stealth_finger]

Are they expecting apple to take a stand when money is involved or something? Can't see it happening to be honest.

Re:Democracy

[DickBreath]

Think Different!

Just like everyone else. Don't rock the boat. Rebrand 'prison camp' to 'walled garden'.

How dare you think you should be able to make a repair instead of buying the latest thing we tell you to buy!

Complaining about the lack of a headphone jack is a sign of cowardice comrad.

Re:Democracy

[Darinbob]

Stepping back a bit, Apple will likely never make money from military defense even if they wanted to, so avoiding that market doesn't hurt Apple very much. However telling China to go shove off will cost them billions in profits. It's easy to hold up to one's own ideals when money is not involved.

When there's a lot of money on the table is becomes much easier to rationalize things away, justify your actions, blame others, and do forth. Such as saying that the board of directors is giving the orders and not yourself, saying that by being in the Chinese market it helps to promote democracy as a long game, and so forth.

Business as usual

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is not in the business of free speech, they're in the business of making money. If censoring one song means they can keep making money, they will.

Re: Business as usual

[dmomo]

I'm not sure he said anything was OK.

Re: Business as usual

[ShanghaiBill]

Companies are required to obey the law. Apple didn't make the law requiring certain terms and topics to be censored in China, but they are required to obey it, just like they are required to obey censorship laws in other countries, including America.

It is not the job of western corporations to "fix" China. That is up to the Chinese.

Re: Business as usual

[Anonymous Coward]

Same AC as above. It's not OK with me, but apparently it's OK with them. I'm just explaining the rationale. I didn't make any judgments whether it's good or bad, right or wrong. Apple will do whatever they want to do anyway.

Re:Business as usual

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is not in the business of free speech, they're in the business of making money. If censoring one song means they can keep making money, they will.

We were just going along with orders mein herr!

Re: Business as usual

[stealth_finger]

So whatever makes them money is OK with you?

It's certainly ok with apple.

Re: Business as usual

[DickBreath]

He's not necessarily saying it is OK. Just saying how it actually is.

For example I can say: Trump is president.

That does not mean I am saying it is OK or Not OK for that matter. It is just a simple fact.

It is a simple fact that Apple, like any publicly traded corporation, will do anything to make money without any moral consideration whatsoever. That is their legal duty as a publicly traded corporation.

Re: Business as usual

[larryjoe]

Companies are required to obey the law. Apple didn't make the law requiring certain terms and topics to be censored in China, but they are required to obey it, just like they are required to obey censorship laws in other countries, including America.

The Chinese government kills people deemed to be threats. Apple, Google, et al. obey Chinese censorship laws. People outside of China (e.g., on slashdot) criticize China and Apple, Google, et al., and that initial criticism is further criticized.

This is all as it should be in a civil society, with the possible exception of the first part.

It is not the job of western corporations to "fix" China. That is up to the Chinese.

Here on slashdot, we're not trying to fix China. The China detractors are under no delusion that they have any non-zero influence on the Chinese government. Rather, these discussions and criticisms of China are for our benefit, not for China's. The hope is that such discussions in countries that allow citizens to challenge and criticize the government will prevent/blunt similar abuses in those countries.

Re: Business as usual

[Darinbob]

Companies are required to obey the laws of the countries that they do business in, that is true. There is no requirement however that a company must to business in all countries. There's a greed factor that keeps Apple in China.

There's also a sort of middle ground. Be slow and lax to respond to the law. They could let these songs be available for one or two weeks before shutting them off, letting them get out there while still being able to say "whoops, we had some internal process issues preventing us from complying instantaneously." After all this is what many companies in the US do when they don't want to comply with US law, they delay, hold things up in court, drag their feet, and hope the next administration will just issue dicates absolving them.

Re: Business as usual

[Anonymous Coward]

And the SS soldiers were required to obey their orders. They didn't make the laws regarding forced exterminations and genocides, but they were required to obey it. Just like other soldiers are required to obey their commanding officers orders. It's not the job of the individual SS soldiers to question orders. They are just doing their jobs.

Re: Business as usual

[edris90]

as human beings it is their job to question any orders and make sure they agree with them and understand the implications or refuse to comply until that information is produced. That's the biggest lie that the military ever sold people was that you're not responsible for your own actions as long as someone else is paying and ordering you to do so. It is individuals refusing to comply that is our last defense against evil

Sensitive

[Roodvlees]

Because if you can't attack peaceful people have people accept it as okay, you're just a business.

Hypocrisy

[Anonymous Coward]

Coming from the far left who want to ban speech they don't like.

Re:Hypocrisy

[Quakeulf]

Left and right is a false dichotomy to drive divide-and-conquer so we fight each others instead of those who push this misdirection.

Expected

[whoda]

Everybody knew this was what they were going to do in China, no matter what they said, right?

It is the law of their country

[aepervius]

I am sure also apple music Germany is censoring selling pro nazi song sales. We may not like the law of *their* country, but apple has to respect local laws *where ever* it sells. It is pretty much so in every country that the law of the location of the buyer is the one which applies, not the law of the seller. If they don't want to respect the law of a country, the solution is simply : don't sell to anybody in that country. Many US outfit do that if you try to go to their site with an EU address they simply throw you out and say "GDPR we don't want you". Same principle.

Re:It is the law of their country

[WebHikerOriginal]

Funny, no-one used this argument to defend IBM when their tech was used to count bodies in Nazi Germany, in line with the law of the country and all...

Re:It is the law of their country

[serviscope_minor]

I am sure also apple music Germany is censoring selling pro nazi song sales. We may not like the law of *their* country, but apple has to respect local laws *where ever* it sells.

Yeah but Germany is basically a democracy with free citizens. China is a repressive autocracy that harvests organs from political prisoners.

Supporting one is not the same as supporting the other.

If they don't want to respect the law of a country, the solution is simply : don't sell to anybody in that country.

That does seem to be what people are indeed advocating. Don't lend support to the repressive organ-harvesting regime even if there's lots of money to be made.

Music is sinful

[AHuxley]

and was curated for the Communist party.

Welcome to Communist censorship.
In free Taiwan the real China people can listen to music.
Recall the 1989 Tiananmen Square pro-democracy protests.
Talk about the history of Communist China.
Look at cartoon bears.
Read books like 1984.

apple is all RED China they will even unlock phone

[Joe_Dragon]

apple is all RED China they will even unlock phones there but not help the FBI at all.

It's in Apple's DNA

[jenningsthecat]

Apple has a history of censoring content in its platforms. In this it seems that they're no different from many other major players. That's probably not surprising, given the symbiotic relationship between big corporations and governments. But there's an inconsistency here. On the one hand, Apple actively opposes US law enforcement's efforts to compromise users' private data. On the other hand, they seem to get behind censorship in a big way, sometimes even in support of totalitarianism.

People behave inconsistently - I guess entities that enjoy 'corporate personhood' exhibit similar behaviour.

Liberals = shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, the left is the censorship movement.

I like the "both sides are equally bad" arguments from liberals. Its them finally admitting liberals are shit and they know it. They use the "both sides are equally bad" to justify them staying liberal even thought they know it is shit.
Other great liberal positions:
Support KKK member as VA gov
Support serial rapist as VA lt. gov
Support killing live born babies and calling it abortion
Support illegals killing US citizens and protect them from consequences like jail or deportation in "sanctuary cities"
Fight against reducing taxes/regulation that has helped minorities get jobs or paid more
Lie for 2 years about Russian collusion despite them knowing there was no evidence because they can't argue against Trump policy on merits
Attempt to remove meritocracy and raise people based on identity politics, then call themselves "Native American" to take advantage so they don't have to work hard
Censor gays/women/blacks from giving public speeches at Berkley and on Twitter/Facebook/Youtube

Yea, both are equally bad. Only problem is only liberals are promoting legalizing killing live born babies.
Liberals = shit and now you know it and admitted it.

Re:Liberals = shit

[stealth_finger]

Really pining for the fjords aren't you.

Re:Liberals = shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Only read your first sentence. There were no ethnic slurs, you lied because you can't help but be shit.

Look back over last 4 years and see EVERY liberal calling me a racist, bigot, homophobe and you not ONCE calling them out.
You are also shit. The DNC/liberals ARE the party of the KKK (see gov of VA) there is no debating it. You don't like being called shit or a racist, then don't support the KKK.
Don't support killing live born babes, don't support illegals killing US citizens and calling us racists for saying that is a bad stance. It did happen, San Francisco is PROTECTING the illegal alien that killed Kate Stynley and the DNC in Congress REFUSES to pass a law that might prevent it happening again.

This asshole calls out one side for pointing out his guys are shit and giving specific examples of why, but he gives a pass for years of name calling from him and his buddies.
Like I said... Liberals = shit

Re:Liberals = shit

[magarity]

Look back over last 4 years and see EVERY liberal calling me a racist, bigot, homophobe and you not ONCE calling them out.

Referring to your history while using AC makes no sense. Going by posting history it is the AC who is the biggest racist, bigoted, *phobe ever. As for politics, AC is radically marxist, libertarian to the point of anarchy, and a totalitarian theocrat all at the same time.

Re:Liberals = shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahh, the modern left. The party of projection. Classical liberals are great. Too bad there are seemingly none left.

There's a reason people don't listen to you

Projection! Someone said they did not listen to your tirade because of you lying in the first sentence. Of course the mature thing to do is say the same thing back.

Re:Liberals = shit

[Anonymous Coward]

"Russian collusion is a proven fact, there is no argument about this topic."

Citation please.

Re:Liberals = shit

[Darinbob]

The Right is also the censorship movement. The Left and Right are both highly in favor of restricting speech that they disapprove of, it's just not the same speech that they want suppressed.

On the Right I see many who want to suppress right to have a free choice of religion (ie, anti-muslim), the right to give advice on abortions, and so forth. Historically the Right was for suppressing free speech with obscenity cases and pornography. Right wing governments across the planet are restricting the free press.

To claim that only the Left favors censorship just labels you as a partisan who is more interested in dividing than uniting.

welcome to China

[v1]

This article can be summed up with "company respects sovereignty of a country, and I'm outraged!"

Anyone doing business in China has to follow the laws, even if they don't align with the typical morals of the country where the business is based.

"Obey our laws or get out of China." It's just that simple.

TFA makes it sound like they have some magical 3rd choice and they're being evil for not "doing the right thing". It's pretty self-evident that they don't want to pack up and leave China, and removing a few songs from their store there (that are basically illegal to distribute in China) is a very small price to pay for them to stay in the market. Apple isn't above the law in China, they mow down large crowds of people trying to push this song's message, you don't think they will kick out Apple? This article is just trying to grab some headlines by reminding us that water is wet.

Re:welcome to China

[fortythirteen]

There is nothing wrong with expecting ethics to outweigh profit. Is a shipowner who transports slaves considered innocent if they are moving them between countries that have legalized slavery, or are we rightfully outraged by the presence of a slave trader?

Re:welcome to China

[serviscope_minor]

This article can be summed up with "company respects sovereignty of a country, and I'm outraged!"

This article can be summed up as "company makes lots of money supporting the censorship of a repressive, autocratic and deeply unpleasant regime."

"Obey our laws or get out of China." It's just that simple.

Yes and the ethical thing is to just get out.

TFA makes it sound like they have some magical 3rd choice and they're being evil for not "doing the right thing".

Not really. They're pointing out the activity. You can make whatever judgement you like about that.

a very small price to pay for them to stay in the market

Yes you can make lots of money doing deeply unethical things.

Could always pull out of China

[tepples]

Google complied with Chinese law by ceasing to do business in China. I imagine that opponents of censorship would prefer that Apple follow suit.

Re:Could always pull out of China

[stealth_finger]

Google complied with Chinese law by ceasing to do business in China. I imagine that opponents of censorship would prefer that Apple follow suit.

Good luck if anyone expects apple to choose morals when sales are on the line. And I don't think apple would be willing to risk all that sweet, sweet sweatshop labour.

Re:Could always pull out of China

[postbigbang]

That would require courage and principles in the face of profits.

Re:Could always pull out of China

[mlw4428]

As long as they still make smartphones, use any form of technology with any components from China, or hire contractors from China...Google is STILL doing business with China.

Re:Could always pull out of China

[ShanghaiBill]

There is no "moral" choice, because Apple's actions are not going to change anything either way.

These are the choices Apple faces:

1. Stay in China, and do nothing to fix China's problems.
2. Leave China, and do nothing to fix China's problems.

This is the famous Serenity Prayer:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

The problem is not that Apple lacks courage, but that you lack wisdom.

Re:Could always pull out of China

[Anonymous Coward]

Leaving China DOES do something to help solve China's problems, by demonstrating that major international corporations will refuse to do business will a genocidal tyrannical regime.

Staying in China and helping the government censor does not only not help fix China's problems, it makes them worse! It's anti-helping!

Wisdom comes in recognizing the consequences of actions. You either lack it, or you're another loser pro-China troll (which is much the same thing).

Re:Could always pull out of China

[stealth_finger]

There is no "moral" choice, because Apple's actions are not going to change anything either way.

These are the choices Apple faces:

1. Stay in China, and do nothing to fix China's problems. 2. Leave China, and do nothing to fix China's problems.

This is the famous Serenity Prayer:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference.

The problem is not that Apple lacks courage, but that you lack wisdom.

There's also a difference between seeing a pool of shit and diving on in anyway because that's where the gold is and saying, I don't want to swim in this, I have enough gold.

Re: Could always pull out of China

[edris90]

China doesn't need apple, but apple wants a chance to drain China economic resources into apples international holding s. All companies are clamoring to do business with China because they are worried that China well leave them behind. I just can't stand the idea of a country that is doing economically well not funneling it into their bank accounts. U.s. is huge you think there's plenty enough money to be made here why do they even need to go to China. Apple is just being greedy .they already make enough to keep the lights on and their homes and food on their table. They don't actually need any more money or influence. Anything more than make will just be wasted on things other than making sure people have what they need.

Caught dealing in China in the first place

[tepples]

"An American international company CAUGHT following/respecting local laws in a country they do business!!!"

Could be rephrased:
"An American international company CAUGHT doing business in the first place in a country where local law requires violating human rights!!!"

Re:Caught dealing in China in the first place

[schwit1]

The 'I was just following orders' defense went out at Nuremberg.

Apple is a profits-first company just like Google. You can see this clearly as they won't withdraw from OIC nations that hang people for the crime of being gay. (Four stores in Brunei alone!) Not on the list of companies boycotting Brunei. Apples Investor Relations team would love to hear from you, Im sure.

Apple caught Censoring NAZI movies in germany

[goombah99]

Local laws and regulations require Censoring. Look at germany. Look at France. where certain historical items are not allowed for trade like nazi gear.
And even look at the US where you have to censor crypto when sold overseas. You used not to be able to advertise if you were a lawyer. You can't advertise cigarettes near schools and other venues for minors. You also can't sell certain drugs, not just illicit drugs, in the US that are legal in europe.

Ronald Reagan banned envionmentalists from canda (Farley Mowatt).

Countries ban things that offend their sensibilities.

Re:Apple caught Censoring NAZI movies in germany

[stealth_finger]

Local laws and regulations require Censoring. Look at germany. Look at France. where certain historical items are not allowed for trade like nazi gear. And even look at the US where you have to censor crypto when sold overseas. You used not to be able to advertise if you were a lawyer. You can't advertise cigarettes near schools and other venues for minors. You also can't sell certain drugs, not just illicit drugs, in the US that are legal in europe.

Ronald Reagan banned envionmentalists from canda (Farley Mowatt).

Countries ban things that offend their sensibilities.

This is more like saying you're not allowed to talk about the whole slavery thing.

So - no Guns and Roses then?

[pecosdave]

Cause, you know, Chinese Democracy and all.

Re:No. Capitalism.

[stealth_finger]

Q: How do you console a grammar nazi?

A: There, their, they're

Re:So?

[stealth_finger]

For years Walmart wouldn't sell CDs with explicit lyrics. Can the Chinese Communist Party make business harder or impossible for Apple? Are they doing what they have to do to remain eligible to serve that market?

There's a difference though between a retailer choosing not to sell something and the government mandating no one can.

When I lived in China there were the 3 T's and X

[Hasaf]

The Three T's and X were: Tibet, Tiananmen, Taiwan, and Xinjiang. It was made clear that we (the Westerners) had no knowledge or opinions on these topics. As such we have nothing to say about them.

One day a new assistant asked me about Tiananmen. I asked her what she knew. She told me that her history teacher told her that it was a beautiful park in Beijing where people fly kites. Her grandfather had told her something much more in line with what those of us who watched it life on TV saw.

I was not entirely sure about her at that point, so my answer to her was, "you should honour your grandfather."

She laughed and said, "that is so Chinese." However, she also understood my answer.

Re:When I lived in China there were the 3 T's and

[Hasaf]

Just to add, the X was not there when I started living in China, it was just the three T's. The X got added later.

Re:No. Capitalism.

[houghi]

Q: How do you console a grammar nazi?
A: telnet there their they're

Re:So?

[dk20]

So.. what about all the words you cant say on TV? The US govt seemed ok having the FCC fine people for saying specific words.

There was also Prohibition, where due to "social standards" liquor was "banned".

Then the Gold law, where you were forced to sell all gold to the US GVT at set prices.

Google partnering with Chinese gov't too

[drnb]

Google complied with Chinese law by ceasing to do business in China. I imagine that opponents of censorship would prefer that Apple follow suit.

And then Google changed its mind and started making surveilance/censorship software for China. Google has also partnered with the Chinese government.

Re:apple is all RED China they will even unlock ph

[pauljlucas]

[citation needed]

Re: Freedom Rock

[pecosdave]

I'm an old fart and I found this funny.

Re:So?

[stealth_finger]

There was also Prohibition, where due to "social standards" liquor was "banned".

And how did that turn out?

It does not matter

[aepervius]

Whether one is a democracy or an autocracy does not matter. That way my point. No matter what you have got to respect local law or get out. So when people get angry at "apple censoring" they are either idiot not realizing they have to respect local law, or they should vote with their wallet and not buy apple (which you know as well as me won't happen).