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Wine project moves forward!
zootsuite writes "After an end of year coding rush, Wine-990103 has been released. Any bets on when Microsoft will stop making operating systems, and stick to the apps? "
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Microsoft will always be there, trying its best to screw everyone else. Let's hope Linux and Wine will succeed in becoming the premier OS for all home and business uses.
For all we know this PSX Emulator, and new WINE could be SlashFUD....
I hope WINE gets good, really good. I STILL can't get Cornell CU-SeeMe to run under WINE, damnit, and QSeeMe bites. I assume the QSeeMe author had to sign an NDA with the White Pine Gestapo.
Doesn't compile on my computer. It pukes at the Direct 3D stuff. Something about missing GL header files. Oh well. /me waits until the next release.
Wine comes out twice a month, usually.
Did I miss the news story here?
We want more stories about people getting
rich off of those spam offers. Now THAT'S news
that matters.
Nope, have mesa installed. Have glide installed (if that makes a difference). Makes a person wonder.
Waste of time? For you, perhaps. But not for the
;)
many users of Wine. It's nice to run 16 and 32
binaries in Linux. Where's the harm in that?
Also, I think tinkering with the API may prompt
people to learn new things and experiment more.
Who knows: some good ideas could come out of
Wine development that even non-Wine users will
need and enjoy.
Plus, people are learning valuable programming
and design skills in the process. Porting teaches
one more about good API design than anything else,
I think, since you are confronted with the
benefits and costs inherent in some API designs.
Example: reference counting is popular in COM.
Maybe someone not familiar with this technique for
gc will study its implementation in MS libraries,
and take that skill with them when they write
*nix libraries. (Gosh, maybe the development
versions of GTK wouldn't leak memory then
Hmmm...
Just re-read your post again. .
. .
Yea. You're right. I was wrong.
Fuck Wine. Losers.
The One thing that might get me to use win98 and thats starcraft. while i can play a computer, that isn't very much fun. Does anyone have any estimates on when battlenet might start working?
Where did you put your Mesa includes ? Autoconf only tests for the presence of the library, not of the include files.
/usr/local/include/GL/ and it works...
On my system, I copied Mesa's include/GL directory into
BTW, you can have screenshots here .
So what if running Windows binaries under Linux suck? It sucks even more having to actually run Windows...
im confused
what r u talking abaout?
r u playing sc with WINE ?
cause i have win98 and play on bnet every day
Hatred seems to be the predominant emotion expressed on /. these days. If it's not hatred for the aforementioned MS-related stuff, it's hatred for Java, for Sun, for commercial software, for some piece of free software that you don't happen to like, for commercial Unix, for *BSD, for anything that isn't GPL. Hatred for all the distributions other than your own, hatred for corporations, for libertarians, for ESR, for anyone who doesn't worship at the altar of RMS, for the Open Group, for the ZDNet people, the list goes on. Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate. Did I mention hate? What's wrong with you guys?
Thanks for reminding me why I got fed up with what the Linux community has turned into these days. The whole darned free software community (or what's left of it) seems to be a hate group these days, right up there with the KKK and the skinheads and a bunch of goosesteppers that will go unnamed for fear of invoking Godwin's Law. I don't see how anyone can read /. from day to day and not pick up on this.
The collective mind of the free software community has always been motivated by both the desire to hack, and a rather ugly bitterness regarding the state of the software world. It was motivated by both constructive and destructive influences. I defy anyone to read /. for a few months and not see that the destructive side has won out, hands down. You guys need to think a little more rationally and maturely and not be so obsessed with what your imagined enemies are doing, be they MS, some evil non-GPL non-Stallmanite free software people, or KDE people, or big companies, or whatever.
Basically, chill out. Goddamn, get a grip!
Public forums of any kind, especially when new, tend to draw a nasty crowd. Remember the introduction of unlicesned CB radio in the US?
Those who can, do. Those who can't hang around on the sidelines and bitch about how them what are doing it, are doing it wrong.
I hate the stupid flamers too....
STUPID FLAMERS DIE!
Look at www.ds9.net/schmied
Not quite usable at the moment but...
Ciao
Juergen
What're the chances that a chunk of the more prominent vitriol advocacy is a low-key astroturf campaign by some faction or company's PR flack that feels threatened?
If you really want you can write your own client, the specs of the CU protocol are available at www.cu-seeme.net.
I agree with you. Then the companies won't port their applications because you can use it with Wine. No, please live with your 16-bit Windows applications in Windows instead and suggest to your boss some UNIX alternatives. Look at the OS2 failure and put your effort in other things than Wine.
/Jonas U (too lazy to create an account)
That could be the whole point for msie under non-Windows operating systems.
I don't voluntarily use any windows apps so I don't have a windows partition. Wine will be very useful to me though since I'll be getting some assessment programs from a distance learning course I'm doing. These programs run under windows and I'd really hate to pollute my computer with MS logos all over the place. As well as that I haven't rebooted in over 3 months and I'd have to reboot at least 50 times to get windows installed if my last experience with it is anything to go by. I'm hoping wine will run these programs for me when they arrive. Some people will find wine very useful and thats justification for it IMO. To all the people complaining about the team writing a piece of free software because THEY WANT TO WRITE IT, your efforts would be better spent on a OSS project than trawling ./ looking for things to complain about.
John O'Sullivan (forgot password)
Microsoft originally created Windows 95 to bridge users from Windows 3.11 to Windows NT. That is, Win3.1 was to it's core a 16-bit OS with an optional, cheap 32-bit hack (Win32S). WinNT, on the other hand, was 32-bit and better, but apps didn't commute between the two. So, Win95 was the solution -- an OS that could run both 16- and 32-bit applications. The intent was that Win95 could run the old Windows 3.1 software, but all development would be 32-bit and NT compatible. After time legacy software would fade out of use, and all software anyone wanted to bother using on 95 would be NT compatible. And, the process is working.
If nothing else, WINE is the similar bridge from Windows to Linux. That is, people can run Linux and (someday) run all their old Windows software. If large numbers people use Linux/WINE, native development will begin to shift from Windows to Linux.
That is, WINE is absolutely necessary for Linux to take significant market share with respect to desktop systems -- eventually leading to King of the Hill status. And, isn't that what all GNU, Linux, and OSS advocates want?
As long as applications are Windows-only, there will be bitterness, sorry but that's the way it is.
Why can't I just go into CompUSA and pick up the latest game for Linux? And while we're at it, how about a f*cking JIT environment for Java now that it has been around for 2 years?
I am happy to be able to hack WM dock applets and do all kinds of internet stuff (cgi, databases etc). But the worst problem is the dominance of Microsoft. They are still a complete OS monopoly and I won't be completely happy until that changes.
Mark
Can I play Diablo with Wine??
Mark
Yes, I agree, so REDHAT and caldera can become the next millenia's MicroSluts. Linux code might be free, but you can bet in years to come that KDE and GNOME will cost you. And of course, all the programs that you will have to run on it. They will be the same.. All for the buck and the buck stops here.
Either you are communist or you are not, you cant play both sides.
Linux and wine are so inconsequential to microsoft,
that it's almost silly. At least, for now...
That is funny to read.. Someone bitching about MSIE running on WINE (which, wasnt that made to run winblows applications? If I laugh with you, it is that a LINUX program actually works!) :)
Funny thing is, linux (sorry, REDHAT) ships with Netscape.. the #1!!!!! program to crash on my "unworthy" windows OS.
go ahead. Flame me all you want.
I am fire retardant
is the decision of Corel to use the WINE strategy to implement all of their software, Office and Graphics suits on Linux. They have committed their enginnering resources to get WINE operating sufficiently to do that.
What makes this so interesting is that all other developers will be able to use the exact same tool to port other Windows software to Linux as well. Corel decided not to give themselves an advantage and disanvatage everyone else. They decided to level the playing field and give EVERYBODY a way to get free of MicroSoft terror tactics.
I think they deserve a great deal of credit for that. I sure hope it works out.
Try using a normal UNIX client with imap (get your sysadmins to turn on imap support). Fetchmail works just fine to pull it down (that's what someone else in the office here is doing.
Are they going to fix the y2k bug in their versions?
Unfortunately, WINE is an alternate library implementation, not an emulator. Thus it will never run on alphas, PPC's etc. If you ask me, time would have been better spent writing an emulator, but I'm not doing it so I shouldn't complain.
I do not quite see, why do you get offended by others usage of certain words which are as much part of the language as any other word is. I do not see why certain non-professional terms related to human sexuality cause so much trouble. And even if your kids do read them on /. I do not see why is it gonna be any worse then if they hear those same words on the street, in the school, from friends or strangers. If you could please explain this to me I would really appreciate it. Sorry if I made any spelling or grammar errors english is not my first language. As for being A. C. my name is Jeld and you can address me at jeld@mindless.com
Wine debs are available at http://www.debian.org/~crow
They are built from cvs about once a week.
AC because I don't have my password here at school.
--Stephen Crowley
see bochs It booted lose95 last time I checked. Might even be useful for you. I'm sure there are others.
bluGill, I don't feel like loging in now.
I guess the only one we all agree not to hate is Linus. ;-)
It's better to have opinions than not to care at all. Or to be dictated by Bill Gates.
So all you people in free software society, put your flame suit on.
/Jonas U
The way I understand it, Winelib is not Intel dependant, you could in theory compile Win32 apps against Winelib on any processor.
It is just the part of Wine that processes Windows binary files that is obviously Intel dependant.
When's Wine 2000 supposed to come out?
It's an OS/windowing system emulator, not processor emulator
If you want to run win-x86 apps on other platforms, use willows toolkit at http://www.willows.org, they do i386 emulation for other platforms
I messed up with URL, the real one is
www.willows.com
The same crap that shows up here shows up all over the Net whenever there is a public forum. There will always be lusers on the Net that can only get people to read/hear them by inserting their inane comments in between some other community's discussion (as is the case on /.) I know most Slashdotter's understand this, but I'll point it out for the people who don't. Slashdot supports the Linux and OSS communities by tracking news and giving us a forum to discuss it. The people that post here however DO NOT represent the Linux and OSS communities.
Basically, chill out. Goddamn, get a grip!
This sounds like advice you should take yourself.
KN
As long as people still get stuff done, and it's good stuff, let them be angry.
Hell, angry people get more stuff done that people who don't give a damn. Anger is a better motivator than most.
At least for now.
I like the idea of WINE. It's a clever hack. But it's still a hack.
I play Total Annihilation under Wine on a regular basis. DirectX is supported (DirectDraw, DirectSound, DirectPlay, DirectInput, and coming soon: Direct3D!). Many games play quite well. If you've got a 3Dfx board and the Linux Glide libraries, you can play many of your favorite games (such as Unreal) in it's full 3D accelerated glory.
Don't go calling Wine "completely useless". It's far from that. But it is still Alpha software in active development. If you do have problems with it, I'm sure the Wine community would welcome your contributions to the codebase.
Does anyone else think that WINE is the dumbest idea and the biggest waste of time?
According to slashdotters, everything that is Windows is absolute trash. The idea that you want to then recreate trash borders on the insane.
Why not push your efforts into doing something original? Why make open source copies of closed source software and steal the ideas of the companies? Can't you think of anything else that needs to be made, other than a Windows clone?
When will Microsoft give up making OS's and stick to apps? Why? Their apps are buggier than their OS's. Take Word for instance - please, please take it.
I love Word's WYSIQUWYG (what you see it quite unlike what you get) interface. I suppose we should be grateful that however many negative spaces they show on the screen the printout looks OK (if printing doesn't crash - hey folks in the US think the printing is a bit unstable - try the Chinese versions)
Hey guys, I think its time we started one of the Logo contests - for an "I helped bankrupt Microsoft" Tee-shirt.
How is everyone's experience with sound lately?
Months ago, I heard it's practically non-existent - has it improved?
Past (last year to be exact):
Linus says to strive for "Global Domination" (tongue-in-cheek). Slashdot takes literally. Slashdot strives for mainstream audience. Mainstream audience comes from Windows, Mac, etc. Mainstream audience has no clue what the Linux community is like and begins to flame on Slashdot. Linux community is destroyed by Slashdot.
Future (1999-2000):
Free software written will be oriented towards the end-user. Free software will be non-existant (its called Open Source (TM) now). "Hacker" will refer to the bad people who break into internet sites. People who create free software for Linux will only be called "developers", "engineers", or "designers". Newbies to Linux will not know what bash, tar, gzip, or grep are, nor will they care. As long as a new GNOME release (2.0) is out they will be happy.
Present (January, 1999):
Anyone see a repeat of history happening? Right now Linux is in "DOS -> Windows 3.11" stage. Soon Linux will be in "Windows 95" stage. Whatever happens in the upcoming months will not be a Good Thing (TM). If someone does happen to win this so-called "desktop war", then what? No twm allowed? What happens when someone wins this so-called "package manager war"? Tar/gzip can kiss all our asses goodbye? This is an _EXACT_ repeat of history. Anyone remember ARJ? Probably not too many. Since it lost to the ZIP packager. What about OS/2? (Probably remember this one.. since its not too old). OS/2 did run on DOS at one time, if I'm remembering correctly. But there had to be a "desktop war" and Windows succeeded. Now you don't see too many OS/2 programs being written. What next? X/KDE/GNOME being incorporated directly into the Linux kernel? People paying off Linus to put certain code into the "official" Linux kernel? IMO Linux is on its way to mainstream hell (The place where ZDNet editors come knocking at your door asking you for soundbytes and hype on the big version 4.0 of your program).
This may seem like one big rant, but Linux is being destroyed. There will be many people to say that I'm full of hot air (and worse). You people just aren't seeing Linux from my perspective. Instead you just want Linux to be the perfect OS. Whether or not it is, you just want it to be perfect in your mind. This is just part of a grudge carried over from hatred towards MS. In all honesty.. Microsoft is NOT as evil as many people believe. Its just hype for anti-MS that started it all.
I read once that Bill Gates told IBM to ask another company about creating an OS for IBM's new "PC". The company declined. Bill Gates decided to go for it. IBM put the job of creating an OS into the hands of Bill Gates. In other words: Bill Gates had a responsibility to create a system that would integrate all parts of the computer and would be easy to use. Now he is finally achieving that goal, yet so many people think he is evil. Honestly, what is so wrong with having everything integrated and operating with each other? That is the goal of KDE/GNOME, if anyone forgot. Step back from the world of Linux and look at what Bill Gates has _really_ done. He has managed to unite many programs under a single GUI. He has gotten hardware support for everything from keyboards to USB. One man has integrated what the free software world cannot. The reason we cannot? We constantly get stuck in flamewars and let our opinions come before what needs to be done. Not everyone will like the same GUI (Take Gtk/Qt for example). This is probably the reason we have a generic user interface (X) instead of a faster graphical interface integrated within the X server.
BTW: I'm not for or against Bill Gates. I have never met him, nor do I know his intentions. The same goes for Linus and RMS.
email: tclxx@excite.com
Microsoft will always be around to force users to use their software, when it's not them it will be someone else. What the computer world needs in my opinion are software companies that make portable code so they can release software for multiple operating systems easily. Leave the OS choice upto the user, after all we all have our own opinions on how our systems should work! Don't cram one particular OS down the users throat by makers apps for only IT.!
Hi. I'd really appreciate it if someone could tell me what this error means when compiling the new WINE. Didn't get this error on the last 98 release :/
gcc -c -g -O2 -Wall -fPIC -D__WINE__ -D_REENTRANT -I../include -I../include -I. -I. -I/usr/X11R6/include -o variant.o variant.c
variant.c: In function `DateToTm':
variant.c:345: structure has no member named `tm_gmtoff'
variant.c:346: structure has no member named `tm_zone'
make[1]: *** [variant.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/ian/wine-990103/ole'
make: *** [ole] Error 2
I'm running Slack 3.5. Could egcs be the trouble?
Thanks.
--Ian
Since Linux advocates want to have this OS run in professional environments, their advocates can start deporting themselves in a professional manner.
Maybe the good folks who run slashdot can start enforcing this rule.
You would never permit anti-semitic and/or racist comments to remain in the posts, and properly so.
Why don't you set your robot to also nuke any articles that contain the seven dirty words you can never say on television?
It isn't really censorship, even, because the offender could always repost the ideas of the article in an adult fashion.
Umm, there are plans to use em86 to run wintel binaries on other platforms.
Those were nice pictures of Direct3D. I remember back when it first came out that Starcraft was working in Wine. Back then, they said you had to run your X server in 640x480x256 to play DirectX games. Yet I noticed your pictures were just windows with Tomb Raider in em. So, has things improved enough that we can play DirectX games in a window, or does this just apply to your Direct3D work?
Unfortunately, modern America is more worried about being able to use foul language and such than doing anything productive. Say you want people to be civil, they do everything they can to not.
:)
Why can't there be a site where calm rational people can discuss/debate the latest in Linux or Open Source news that I wouldn't be afraid to refer my bosses to do research on this whole Linux thing? Where there's more than just "I don't approve of this mf'ing article, slashdot sucks" or describing varied methods of killing Bill Gates.
If we want Linux or OSS to be embraced by professional organizations and world dominance, we'll have to work mighty hard to extinguish this image of it being for punk/hippy kids just out to get MS. Linux is powerful in its own right, not just because it's not Windows.
I guess it's as the old addage, if you want something done, do it yourself... But the scanning for morons would be a full time job.
Posted by OGL:
Still runs basically the same apps. Perhaps it's a little premature to start reporting on every single wine release. On the other hand the wine team is doing a great job and I wish them the best of luck.
-W.W.
Posted by klaynd:
./ is planning on reporting every release of Wine. However, this *is* the first release of Wine of the year 1999. Compare Wine-990103 to Wine-980104...was there a major improvment? Of course. Hopefully this story will get those who shunned at Wine a year ago to give it another try.
Look guys, I really doubt
Poor language is a major drag to read, and adds absolutely nothing to the strength of peoples postings.
I agree, clean up the poor vocab guys.
Posted by Mojoski:
So what do you think wine is? It's not just a win32 program loader. It's a lib that you can use to port apps to linux also.. Get a clue before you start speaking, please...
Posted by Mojoski:
That is awesome, BBrox.. You are the shit!
Microsoft will stop making an "OS" when...
They can no longer make money selling it, or make money by using it to force people to use their apps. IOW, never.
I hope WINE gets good, really good. ...
I don't. With the greatest respect to the Wine team, their project is a waste of time. If people want windoze apps, they can buy and use windoze, and buy and use those apps. If they don't want windoze, they can a) generate demand for similar apps on their favorite OS, b) write their own apps to do what they want, or c) pay somebody to do (b). If libwine is used, as Corel has discussed, to port apps to Un*x, then we get lots of crufty, ugly, windoze-lookalike apps. They may not crash the whole OS, but they'll still crash a lot, be hard to use, ugly, and in general everything many of us stopped using windoze for. If wine is used as an emulator, more copies of windoze apps are bought, nothing gets ported, and Microsoft comes out the winner - their OS remains the primary development platform.
Use wine if you like, but be aware it may cost you in the long run. The massive wine effort would be better spent re-implementing the #1..n most-requested apps in {Motif|GTK|QT|Xaw|even ascii}. I bet they'd run 2-4x as fast, without licensing issues, etc. Because when all's said and done, reimplementing the windoze api is just plain dumb. The api itself is despicable and sickening, and even a really good implementation (Free, even) is going to suck, as are any apps it runs. There are leaner, meaner, cleaner, Freer, and just plain better apis just waiting for in-demand apps to be written in them. Why use such a bad one? Because it's popular? Now re-read the last 3 sentences with "OS" in mind instead of "api." Gotcha.
To all the people complaining about the team writing a piece of free software because THEY ./ looking for things to complain about.
WANT TO WRITE IT, your efforts would be better spent on a OSS project than trawling
I'm not complaining about it - they have every right to code whatever they want. But the project is a waste of time at best, and counterproductive at worst.
If you haven't tried this before (or in a while), please do: run Powerpoint 97 using Wine. It holds up remarkably well at first, especially considering how big of a program it is. If you get a black box showing up on the screen, open a blank page in powerpoint then click on the box to get rid of it.
For those of you who want to see what it looks like (under KDE), check this image out. The command line to do this is "wine -managed powerpnt.exe".
My only complaint is that 990103 (and possibly earlier ones as well) managed to kill Skyglobe for Windows support.
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
I'm not sure, but if the errorlog below is any indication, it'll be a while:
/usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6 /usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.so.6
/usr/X11R6/lib/libXpm.so.4 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6
/usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 /usr/lib/libncurses.so.4 /lib/libdl.so.2
/lib/libm.so.6 /lib/libc.so.6 /lib/ld-linux.so.2 /lib/libnss_files.so.1 .DBG file ole32.dbg .DBG file rpcrt4.dbg .DBG file outlrpc.dbg .DBG file mso7enu.dbg
[root@obsidian2 Office]# wine -managed outlook.exe
fixme:security:InitializeSecurityDescriptor (0x40681778,0x1): stub
fixme:module:FreeLibrary32 (0xbfeb0000): stub
err:resource:FindResourceEx32W 0x6dff0000(OUTLLIB.dll) "#7a01"("#000e") not found!
err:resource:FindResourceEx32W 0x6dff0000(OUTLLIB.dll) "#7a02"("#000e") not found!
fixme:module:LoadLibraryEx32A flag not properly supported 2
fixme:win32:DeviceIoControl Unimplemented control 256 for VxD device VNETBIOS
fixme:win32:SYNC_DoWait alertable not implemented
fixme:win32:DeviceIoControl Unimplemented control 256 for VxD device VNETBIOS
fixme:win32:SYNC_DoWait alertable not implemented
fixme:win32:DeviceIoControl Unimplemented control 256 for VxD device VNETBIOS
fixme:win32:SYNC_DoWait alertable not implemented
fixme:win32:DeviceIoControl Unimplemented control 256 for VxD device VNETBIOS
fixme:win32:SYNC_DoWait alertable not implemented
fixme:win32:DeviceIoControl Unimplemented control 256 for VxD device VNETBIOS
fixme:win32:SYNC_DoWait alertable not implemented
fixme:win32:DeviceIoControl Unimplemented control 256 for VxD device VNETBIOS
fixme:win32:SYNC_DoWait alertable not implemented
fixme:win32:DeviceIoControl Unimplemented control 256 for VxD device VNETBIOS
fixme:win32:SYNC_DoWait alertable not implemented
fixme:win32:DeviceIoControl Unimplemented control 256 for VxD device VNETBIOS
fixme:win32:SYNC_DoWait alertable not implemented
fixme:win32:DeviceIoControl Unimplemented control 256 for VxD device NWLINK
fixme:module:CreateProcess32A (C:\Program Files\Windows Messaging\newprof.exe,...): CREATE_DEFAULT_ERROR_MODE ignored
fixme:module:CreateProcess32A (C:\Program Files\Windows Messaging\newprof.exe,...): lpCurrentDirectory C:\WINDOWS ignored
fixme:module:CreateProcess32A (C:\Program Files\Windows Messaging\newprof.exe,...): lpStartupInfo->lpDesktop Desktop ignored
fixme:module:CreateProcess32A (C:\Program Files\Windows Messaging\newprof.exe,...): lpStartupInfo->lpTitle Title ignored
wine: mutex.c:103: abandon_mutexes: Assertion `mutex->owner == thread' failed.
sendmsg: Broken pipe
Client protocol error:0x832cf98: partial msg sent -1/24
Unexpected Windows program segfault - opcode = 8b
Page fault in 32-bit code (0x08171fb5).
Fault address is 0x00000004
Loading symbols: wine
KEYBOARD COMMCTRL USER GDI KERNEL WINEPS WPROCS DISPLAY SYSTEM
NETBIOS.dll NETAPI32.dll mso7enu.dll MSO97.DLL OUTLRPC.dll OLEAUT32.dll
COMDLG32 COMCTL32.dll RPCRT4.dll SHELL32 MPR MAPI32.dll ADVAPI32
ole32.dll MSVCRT40.dll OUTLLIB.dll OUTLOOK.EXE USER32 GDI32 KERNEL32
DeferredDebug for: OUTLLIB.dll ole32.dllUnable to open
MAPI32.dll RPCRT4.dllUnable to open
COMCTL32.dll OLEAUT32.dll OUTLRPC.dllUnable to open
MSO97.DLL mso7enu.dllUnable to open
In 32 bit mode.
Unexpected Windows program segfault - opcode = 8b
Page fault in 32-bit code (0x0817132b).
Fault address is 0x00000004
Segmentation fault inside debugger, exiting.
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
Back when OS/2 was able to emulate Windows software, you must know one fact that seems to be left out quite often; OS/2 required a copy of Windows to perform it's emulation. Also, OS/2 emulated Windows 3.xx, about the same time that Windows 95 came out.
/X calls out of Windows calls.
The resulting lack of Windows 95 tools (especially DirectX) made OS/2's emulation practically useless for current apps, and the dependance on the Windows software itself further reduced it's strength.
WINE, however, is built from the ground up as a set of Windows-compatible APIs and Libraries, with the ability to translate Windows calls to UNIX calls. The stability factor upon completion of WINE will be every bit as stable as Linux itself, since all Wine does is make Linux
Also, because the APIs are aiming to be exactly like the Windows API calls, programmers won't have to entirely re-write their code to make the software compliant with some form of UNIX API... simply change a few things,and recompile.
Think win32.so as opposed to win32.dll
--
Keep working at it... you will either succeed, or become an expert.
The Penguin Producer
I have placed something similar to my views on Microsoft, and their products. If you would like to read it, go to the page at http://www.geocities. com/SiliconValley/Network/5389/tech.html.
I have prepared that account of how I see Microsoft, the Anti-MS movement, and their software and even political tactics.
Take with a grain of salt, however, this is merely a view.
--
Keep working at it... you will either succeed, or become an expert.
The Penguin Producer
Yeah sure.
The problem is that I don't see any patch from Corel since November in the ChangeLog. So what's wrong ?
Woops thanks a lot !
Could you say me (us) which Email they are using ? I'm really interested in their contributions.
These wine announcements tend to be pretty worthless as they are now. It's basically three words of news -- Wine xxxx released -- wrapped in some filler. There are no details of what's new and fixed, which is the only important information that most people want to know. So, you say, click the link if you want more information. Here is the only acknowledgement of the new version on their news page:
:) Maybe slashdot should start linking these stories to freshmeat -- they seem to have a much better handle on this kind of thing. Here's their take on this new version:
"Wine 990103 released, site updated. (990104)"
Real useful.
"This release has improved console support, tons of new stubs, improvements to header files compatibility, more features in Wine server and lots of bug fixes."
Much, much better! If you're going to do something, you may as well do it right.
Its kind of how it always goes, but I think complaining about it is more joining the problem than fixing it.
Unfortunately, saying "I hate people who hate people," does much the same thing. There is such a lack of attention in the world, people feel like they could blink out of existance without anyone knowing it. Sometimes they just shout to be heard.
In fact, that feeling of being degected and unnoticed was the feul to the Nazi movement. I fear that not just Slashdot, but most of the modern world is once again beginning to feel that way. Its self perpetuating and growing, and if Godwin's law is obeyed people will not only be depressed they will be ignorant. That combination makes for dry kindling and gasoline waiting for a spark.
^~~^~^^~~^~^~^~^^~^^~^~^~~^^^~^^~~^~~~^~~^~
ABORTED effort:
Close all that you have.
WP8 even underlines input, and suggests you use imput in stead.^ ~
^~~^~^^~~^~^~^~^^~^^~^~^~~^^^~^^~~^~~~^~~
ABORTED effort:
Close all that you have.
I won't mind because Microsoft's cruft is so sub-standard even they hate it (and thus Windows 2000 which they will work years on trying to scale back down IMHO)
...Steve
I can't get welcome.exe, calc.exe or anything to boot in wine. Everything dies with Page fault in 32-bit code (0x00000000).
I do not know yet about Wine capabilities in full, but my first impression was less than happy. It keeps crashing on every program from it's programs directory. Since I have no Windows installed now, I couldn't check it with native execs yet. Maybe that's pgcc to blame? But then again, I can't install two years old compiler and risk all the problems from this just to run Windows solitaire!
All I want from thing such as WIne that I could use it without full windows installed. Now I couldn't.
To sum up, there's a way to go before Microsoft have to start worrying.
-- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
I just checked out all the windoze apps with a 5 rating, and saw Internet Exploder 4.0.
Surely this has to be a joke! Does it TRULY run under WINE? If so, that's nothing short of amazing!
And Microsoft reckon it's an integral part of their shite O/S - yeah right!
Somehow, deep down inside, I thought it was too good to be true...
Well, who'd want to use such crap anyway?
Winelib (appart from some quirks) could be compiled non any 32bit platform...
Unfortunatly for 64bits platform it's may not be possible or really hard, since many functions use a DWORD (32bit) parameter that can be a pointer.
It's one place where microsoft really screwed for possibility of multi-platform...
Now I only need to find how microsoft did for the 32bit on the Alpha or how to allocated memory below 4gb with linux/alpha...
MickeySoft makes operating systems? You're kidding! I never knew they made.....wait a minute. You're calling that an operating system?! Waaaaaaah!
(To the overly serious: Just kidding. I just thought it was an interesting statement....)
It still doesn't work, but at least with the new version, the splash screen and errror dialogs come up before it crashes , so its closer :)
I'm guessing that all the bitterness is the result of powerless, pointless, and pitiful lives. Flaming is just a way of making oneself feel important. And these forums allow pathetic individuals to express themselves in ways that are otherwise unacceptable in normal public setting.
(sarcasm on)
Quit trolling you obvious Microsoft lover!
(sarcasm off)
When you have as many visitors as slashdot does, you've going to find at least a few people on every subject that is completely, and outspokenly against it.
In other words:
Given enough eyes, all subjects are hated.
Dosent' mean everyone here hates everything...
First of all, the free software community does not have a collective mind. We are not Borg. The free software community is composed of many individuals, with more distinct opinions than lines of source these days. So any statement about what we collectively think is false from the start.
Secondly, are you new to the Internet? Either that, or you're particularly dense not to have noted something by now: any Internet discussion forum (be it Usenet or /. or whatever) magnifies the extremes. You seem to be saying that merely by reading /. for a few months, you can determine that some particular side of an issue has "won out". This marks you as fairly clueless. You really can't determine much at all about the beliefs and attitudes of a group as a whole from any Internet forum.
Finally, as you pointed out, there are both constructive and destructive elements in the community. If you knew anything at all about Internet forums, you would know that if there is any destructive element at all, it will be quite loud, and the sound of it will be magnified manyfold by the medium. If there were only a dozen people in the entire community with these kinds of flaming personalities, I would expect frequent flame wars and negativity to pervade /., as it does. I've seen highly active newsgroups with larger audiences go down in flames from the activities of fewer people than that. In other words, /. would look pretty much like it does now if it were the case that only a dozen individuals felt that way, so it's highly questionable to claim the state of /. today is evidence for any sort of widespread negativity.
There are those who remember the "Good Old Days"(TM) when Usenet wasn't an open forum for flame wars. They must all be in the 40s or older by now, since I don't remember any such time, and I've been netting since the mid 80s. I suspect those days ended when people could no longer personally remember the email addresses of everyone on the net.
--
Starting reality daemon: realityd
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
This is a revolution after all, in the truest sense of the word.
/.'s coverage: Pro-Apple, pro-SGI, pro-Sun, pro-Linux, pro-Amiga. What unites all these folks? Hatred of Microsoft of course.
Look at
Don't dis it, it's a powerful unifying force.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Rebooting into Windows sucks. For some people this is migration tool... not a way to pollute Linux. :-P
It saves me a trip to my friends house and most of all it saves me from installing (God forbid) Windows on my hard drive.
Quicktax is a great program that works great in the Wine enviroment.
In the contrary, it is very useful.
ayottesoftware.com
I don't. With the greatest respect to the Wine team, their project is a waste of time.
YAMM. Yet Another Moralizing Moron. You loser, Wine will be extremely useful as a porting aid; it will allow to port 'doze software, like Corel will do.
Please remember that the flaming MS/BSD/KDE/Mac/whatever-haters you see around Slashdot are not the free software community -- they are the Slashdot flamer community. It is very rare to see posters who are actually active in an important free software project, apparently those have better things to do than flaming everybody else.
t ml). Apart from implying that most lurkers are newbies, I agree with him pretty much 100%. I have been reading Slashdot myself for around half a year or so, and this is my second or third post during that time. Why? Usually I have nothing to say on the subject, and if I have, I don't want to get involved in the typical flame-fest that is going on around here.
If you haven't already done so, read JonKatz's "Luring the Lurkers"-column from a while back (http://slashdot.org/features/98/12/28/1745252.sh
And no, I don't claim to be an important figure either. Apart from an occasional patch and port, I haven't been involved in any major free software projects. That doesn't mean that I have to justify myself by flaming here either -- I have better things to do, thank you very much.
Don't get me wrong, I think Slashdot is a wonderful resource. You just need to install a huge mental filter before reading the comments.
Petteri
The bookstore I'm helping to switch to a new computer (dual boot now, hopefully pure Linux soon) uses hoary old HOS programs called Books In Print and Flashback, for ordering books from distributors. BIP is probably already 2 years old, and the last time Flashback was seriously updated was 1995. Neither of these programs have a snowball's chance of being ported to anything else besides Win9x. Yes, I'm hoping Wine gets robust enough to run these two progs (BIP almost works now).. otherwise it means that two people who have zero time to do anything but run a bookstore now will also have to learn a new database program (and phone in orders manually instead), or be stuck with an Albatross called Windows.
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
"Our plans for world domination are proceeding precisely on schedule..."
Cheers,
-- jra
To install, say, Quicken, do I first need to install Windows, then install Quicken under windows, then get back into Linux and then run Quicken under WINE?
Or can WINE run the installer (Quicken, in my example) and put the program files in some ext2 directory?
hehe, it's real funny that the spell checker underlined linux :))
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
Wine is no way to live. Think of it as "the patch" for users trying to cut down.
Wine has its place in corporations that rely on lame old home-grown Windows apps for certain key functions they haven't ported to the web yet.
Around my company, everything is done with e-mail, or the web, so I could get away with one of 17+ platforms, but I've worked in environments where some genius wrote an windows exe that management directed everyone to use.
You have keep a windows PC around, dual boot, borrow a windows box, or run Wine.
If you want companies to be able to get rid of Windows sooner than later, you'll want Wine to work.
No gods, no masters
Despite popular belief, skinheads are not a hate group and they are not racists. While there does exist such a thing as Nazi skinheads (aka racist skinheads) they are different from true skinheads and are wrong to call themselvs skinheads. Skinhead's enjoy Oi music and are from every race around the globe, in fact, many of the first skinheads were black Jamaicans. Further, not only aren't skinheads racists, but they are outspoken against it (ever heard of 'Ska Against Racism'). The fact that Neo Nazi's call themselvs skinheads proves thier ignorance. So please, don't make the all too common mistake of calling skinheads a hate group.
\forall code \in C, \frac{\Delta readability(code)}{\Delta t} < 0
I would think that to get Outlook to work, they would need to reverse engineer the MAPI API set. I'd be real interested if Wine could ever do this because MAPI is part of the extend Windows 'API' that really only exists to support their own applications.
MS has changed MAPI in the past when it's served their market needs with Exchange server. One would think that Wine would be playing eternal catch-up to get Outlook 99, 00, 01, 02 to work.
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
In the initial stages of Linux world conquest the two operating systems could share space on cynical peoples hard drives. Eventually as more and more programmers appreciate OSS MS would become a secondary OS, a relic. Then it could whither and die.
If you can't get Wine to compile, there are binaries available. Of course that isn't as much fun as compiling it yourself ;)
Well, for one, slashdot isn't my office, nor any of the other posters here. So they are free to harass all they want.
And secondly, if all you do at the office is _say_ things, it would be awful difficult to bring a case of sexual harassment. The courts are very protective of that freedom of speech principle.
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It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt. Then it's just fun.
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It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt. Then it's just fun.
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I think part of the attitude of Linux/FSF/etc... is that if you don't like the way it's done, instead of raising a huge stink about it, go out and do it yourself in the way you want. People seem to think now that they are entitled to commercial grade free software without any hitches, yet they don't want to do anything themselves. The number of people who cried when corel wanted you to register wp8 to use it beyond 90 days was insane. I registered as soon as I got it; the entire process took maybe a minute. Why did I register? Because corel wanted me to and I figured they were doing a great thing by providing a comerical word processor for free. Yet 90% of the reactions were bad, complaining about libc5 or registering, or the fonts. Grow up! I really hate to use cliches but, if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. Not that constructive critism isn't good, but angry hatred with no real destination is awful. If you don't like wine and think it's evil, tough crap. Don't use it. There are plenty of people out there who will use it. If you don't like the fact that it only runs on x86, tough crap. Impliment your own x86 emulator and hack wine so it can use it.
Basically what I'm saying is that free software is a gift, treat it like one. You are entitled to nothing. Don't complain when you have to register something. And don't act like just because you want xyz program to have abc feature that by acting like a 6 year old who can't have any ice cream that you will get that feature added. And please STOP complaining and giving the editors of slashdot hell for some of the articles that they post. Keep in mind that they are doing us a great service and that a lot of hard work has been put into slashdot so we can have a truely great service. If you don't like the articles, go out and find better ones and submit them.
As much as it sucks the world is ruled by money. It happens. It's the concept that the world works upon. People need to eat, they need to buy stuff, they need some source of income. Deal with it. Stop hating and start helping.
-matt
You can see some screenshots here.
PS: before you search in the source, texturing support is not yet incorporated into the main CVS tree...
Well, take me for an example. I decided to join the linux mainly for one thing. I saw a BSOD once too much. I agree I'm prone to bitterness MS products. But then, for those in my case, who wouldn't be? I've seen crashed at the worst moment possible, been directly insulted with their phone support.
After all, when I think of it, there's no real reason to shout and flame. Maybe there's a reason to cry on what this industry has become.
We all know that Linux is better (at least those of us with a brain do), but take a second and look at it this way:
An "API" like Wine can allow many Windows users to install Linux and run their apps. Certainly.
But how long do you think it will take before they "graduate" from Wine and start using native Linux apps that are better in comparison?
Not long.
But it can certainly be JUST the thing to lower tha barrier to entry to Linux that makes it all possible!
--Thom
The problem is one of market-share. Some stuff will be rather difficult to reverse-engineer or design compatible equals to. Others are simply not worth the bother. By allowing emulation, the end-user gets the best of all worlds: Impressive open-source software, without having to dispose of their commercial stuff until there's an equal.
wine c:\\windows\\welcome.exe makes for some interesting screenshots. =]