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Linux.com Finally Has Content
An anonymous reader was the first to let me know that apparently
Linux.com has finally got an
actual web page on it. It's a terribly nasty looking page-
one that will make you linux.org haters feel like you were
mocking a masterpiece.
My that is hideous.
Does a web page have to be saddled with loads of JAVA applets, JAVAScript, ShockWave garbage, a bazillion frames, massive image maps, and annoying animated GIFsto be considered useful?
Webmasters should ask themselves, "How cool does my web page look under Lynx?" and then proceed to flog themselves as is warranted.
Some of us rely on speaking web browsers which just don't work with anything but good ol' text.
but please, a little work could do some good.
My beef... It's a site for and about linux (in a comercial setting) but the site is made in M$ Frontpage... wassup with that?
Clearly built with The Gimp, no doubt.
Because it's already down!!
Go Slashdot!
What is this...click on the info link
You see that Microsoft FrontPage Extensions.
Linux.com and they use FrontPage?? What the fuck!
Linux.COM done in Microsoft FrontPage? does that seem strange to anyone else? Thats like X11.org using frontpage, or freshmeat Its crazy!
Its owned by Fred Van Kempen, a guy who quit the
linux scene about 0.98 because Linus refused to
take his patches
Interestingly the domain is held at infomagic
(the Slackware people).
Send them _constructive_ suggestions
http://linux.com/comment.htm
;-)
they say feedback is welcome
www.linux.org == junk
www.linux.com == junk
www.linux.net == junk
Now, is it just me, or should some if not all of these people redirect their domains to kernel.org? Or at least metaserver or the FSF or Redhat or something...
Someone please hack in and fix that site!!! That is the slowest and worst excuse for a web page I have seen in a long time. A site like that won't attract any new users.
i agree. please. a fregging linux site written with frontpage. yuk.
the wheel is spinning, but the rat is dead.
It looks as if both linux.com and linux.net are up finally. Both were registered a long time ago by Fred "does not work well with others" van Kempen, the fellow who seemed to have so many problems dealing with people when he was coordinating the Linux networking tree. Old timers will remember that sigh of relief when Alan Cox took over with 'Net2'.
Hold onto your hats, ladies and gentlemen, while we wait to find out what exciting news this heralds, if any. Maybe another one-sided standards push, or possibly just someone who will be playing catchup with the rest of the community....
"Robert's Crash Recovery Kit" is advertised on the front page. That's really going to help Linux's image as a crash-free OS...
PHB pop looking at when he makes his next IT purchasing decision at GE. This web site makes *me* look stupid for suggesting linux as an alternative.
Nothing personal against the people running linux.com/org/net..., but this needs to be stopped now. Before it's too late.
I think we now know why linux doesn't accept patches from this guy
Seems to me that we just got a-talkin' to about flaming others websites.
..."
:P
" Posted by CmdrTaco on Friday
January 01, @09:11PM
from the support-for-people's-hard-work dept.
So a good friend of mine works really hard on his web page. He overhauls the thing to create a new look and feel for it. He ads tons of user interface improvements and in general makes it
faster, smoother, and better looking. He put it up
today and got his ass flamed for all his hard work. This guy works long hours, he doesn't get paid a nickel for his work. And the world thanks him by insulting him. You don't have a right to flame people for changing their websites.
You couldn't of given him better advertising though. Once things settle down I'll jump over and see how lame it is for myself
John Waalkes
Obviously, Frontpage extensions are available for Apache and other servers. The owner of the site thanks Micro$oft for making the extensions available on Linux.
linux.com is running on Linux 1.2 with Apache / Frontpage. So the YOOOGLY look of the site makes linux look bad to the completely clueless, but it actually makes Frontpage look bad to anyone who thinks about it. But the slllllllowwwwww response time makes Linux look bad, or the Compaq Pentium 200 with 96 Meg look bad, depending on whether you wait long enough to actually read the site.
One almost positive thing about the site: the author claims that the site is about using Linux commercially or using it with commercial software, and so it's kind of appropriate to show that you can run Frontpage extensions on a Linux box.
But I agree that Linus ought to be enforcing the trademark and shutting them down.
Allow me to quote from the site:
--snip--
The web site is designed and managed with Microsoft FrontPage 98. Not pretty, agreed, but a whole lot better at the job than for
example Netscape, which basically only has an HTML editor. Now that they (Microsoft) have created a Linux version of their
Server Extensions, perhaps they'll also be as smart for the baseline package itself... FrontPage for Linux !
--snip--
Ha ha! "Netscape, which basically only has an HTML editor." God forbid! I'd be embarrassed to have a web page that wasn't done in vi, personally.
*sigh* How could you own linux.com and use M$-Frontpage???
Whats up with stretching Tux?
This site is just.....horrid!
I get severe 1994 flashbacks just by looking at it.
You would think, given the quality of the page, he would have lots of banner ads all over the place. Odd he does not.
Yes, but freshmeat is actually a DECENT site which promotes linux, rather than making the entire linux community look like a bunch of ametuers.
User: please report details to this site's webmaster.
Webmaster: please see the server's system log for more details.
HEAPS professional!
Someone should buy the linux.com and linux.net domains off this person (maybe we could all chip in to offer a decent amount) and either create a decent linux site with it, or redirect it to linux.org.
Surely this web designer could have used linux products. Can't he talk to the people at:
www.linuxhq.org, www.gnome.org, www.kde.org, www.windowmaker.org, www.gtk.org, etc
for some help or at least opinions before publically releasing his webpage?
If anyone was asking Microsoft sales people about linux... they wont be anymore after taking a look at linux.com
I'm also sure a lot of people are willing to contribute their time to web development for linux.com. Myself included.
You haven't looked at the source of that site...have you? There's JavaScript out the wazoo...
This sucks. Crash it.
It must be run by a Microsoft plant.
Crash recovery for Linux? Duh, Linux doesn't crash. Trying to create some FUD, eh?
Front Page exntensions? Yah.
Someone crash it. Or crack it and erase it.
Could some of you trolls finally explain what is so fucking wrong with Frontpage ?
The whole thing just sends the wrong message. I smell a rat.
Did anyone notice the 'Powered by Apache' button on the front page, but get the 'FrontPage Server Error' when trying to send some feedback? And the FrontPage buttons? I think someone is cheating...
Ok, ok
its a real horrible site, but hey thats the idea.
Fred owns linux.com and linux.net now since 1994.
Now 1 year ago he got his own 64k leased in
holland. He took a compaq proliant 800 , installed Suse 5.1 on it and just named it proliant.infomagic.nl . We did a full install
and went for diner. At the time we came back Fred wanted to read his mail. But ehh it seemed as if
the leased line somehow was down. He went up to his baseband modems and the lights were flashing like hell. Hmm crazy... he couldn't figure out
what was wrong. Until he did a netstat on that proliant. By accident he had fired up www.linux.com and it was hitting at 30.000 page-hits a day. The content? Just that stupid welcome page that apache has been installed correctly.
Now the nickel and dyme was fallen. 30.000 page-hits a day on a bogus website?
To get the attraction of potential buyers we
just inserted some statistics software, made
some announcements and Me myself plugged in
the so-called Crash Recovery Kit.
Well it hasn't crashed sofar, so the CRK won't
be needed for some time.
But hey give us a break, we're no Web Designers
Robert Stockmann
Sheesh! When will these merkins learn that not everyone /. that there was finaaly content I thought
uses a frames-capable browser? Is it really so
much work to paste the html from main frame into
the tags? Lynx lets me get around this
though. the only thing missing was a link to download
Micro$oft Internet Exploiter. I won't even get
started on the whole FrontPhage thing. When I first
saw on
"All right! Another Linux site." Such disappointment.
The layout and design of this site is about right for something hosted by the Slackware people. These folks need to go to finishing school. They have no taste. The fact that Slackware has used an ftp site for a home page for so long says it all.
Slackware is not amenable to constructive suggestions. Real men do it their way, and don't go for the purdy stuff. That's for sissies and fags.
I submitted a comment but got an MS Front Page error message.
How much is Bill Gates paying these clowns to give Linux a bad name? I will try to avoid this site in the future, just like I now try to avoid Linux.com.
Why the hell do so many people list Linux.com as a "main site" for Linux and link to it from their home pages? It's a ripoff, promoting a few very bad commercial products and books and ignoring or downplaying the very best things about Linux.
I get a similiar fealing of unease from visiting LinuxDotCom, an it's not just because of the layout and design.
Right on. I hope this clown reacts the same way scoop did and takes his site down, only that he keeps it down for good!
There seem to be only two explanations for this abomination of a Linux web site:
1. Somebody is paying to give Linux a bad name
2. This guy is trying to give Linux a bad name for personal reasons.
3. This is some joke played by God to make it appear that way, and this guy really is so clueless. However, I find it difficult to believe that even an MSCE entitles one to such cluelessness. If so, this is not just cluelessness, but unfathomable cluelessnes, beyond the reach of the limited imagination. As such, it belongs in some kind of hall of fame.
I prefer to believe a combination of explanations 1 and 2.
Finally, why the hell did Slashdot run a story on this site at all, generating thousands or hundreds of thousands of hits for this abomination of a site and insult to Linux? Shame on you, Slashdot!
I'm pushing Linux at work. This site does not help Linux' credibility.
Please Linus, exercise your trademark rights! This is a travesty!
First, I don't understand why the poor penguin has to look like he's been put through some kind of cruel stretch-torture. I don't understand why the main page has a link to the main page. I of course don't understand why microsoft frontpage was used. I especially don't understand why when I view the page source for some of the frames, they show that they were made with the win95 version of netscape. I don't understand why the pages all contain more commented text than html code. I don't understand why an entire mangled left frame is wasted on one picture with a link. I don't understand why he has such long lines that I have to scroll over 12 monitor lengths to reach the right side of the page. And last but not least, I don't understand why on earth he bothered to post a copyright notice on the site. Does he fear infringement will occur?
Check out http://www.linux.com/Staff/feedback.htm to see all the comments that are posted through their comments page. Amazing what you can find out by just looking at the source.
Time for Linus to exercise his rights and have
the site shutdown, I would say. I *have* looked
at it and it's truly awful.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:05:29 -0800 (PST)
- ----------------------
From: Alex Belits
To: webmaster@linux.com,
webmaster@infomagic.nl
Cc: webmaster@infomagic.com,
ta@nl.net,
torvalds@transmeta.com
Subject: Comment about linux.com
Web site is poorly designed, does not display correctly in Netscape,
contains no useful information, is written in poor style, and the comment
about FrontPage demonstrates an incompetence of the author in the area of
HTML development tools, available on Linux. Attempt ro submit comments
returns FrontPage error.
The design of linux.com web site deeply insults me, and I believe that
the name of Linux operating system (that is a tradematk of Linus Torvalds)
should not be used in the association with this display of ignorance,
incompetence and poor taste.
--
Alex
-----------------------------------------------
Excellent.. now give users the option to cut your hair you hippie!
-- Anonymous Coward
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
I think that kit is supposed to be used if someone screws up when tweaking the kernel or a shell script used by init or a config file or things like that which prevent the system from booting. It's not supposed to recover from Linux doing random crashes--which Linux almost never does, of course.
Posted by antivert:
I'm a Photoshop lover and purist. 3.5 was the very best release.. all others have been an attempt to grasp a few extra dollars after Adobe having realized the ugly truth that they'd made a perfect product. And I love The Gimp. Even Adobe recommends it. Booyah!
Posted by OGL:
I'm rather upset at the cavalier attitude this site's creators hold toward this monstrosity. There must be something we can do to stop them. Until we figure out how our best hope is to make them realize how much they've pissed everyone off already with the 64k line to Frontpage. I hope everyone reading this has or will email them.
-W.W.
193.79.73.117:80 * Linux 1.2.xx
Funny that they would use 1.2.xx don't you think?
Sending quite the nasty E-Mail.
A few select comments:
This page design is HORRIBLE!
How can you justify this defacing of such a fine OS?
The comment page itself is a great example.
This page looks like it was created by my 12 yr. old sister.
My mother in law could make a better page in Microsoft Word for christ's sake.
This site makes Linux look like an OS for 14 year old kids.
Please get a clue.
And stop running it on NT you fucker...
Try: `/usr/games/fortune -s`
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:33:13 GMT
Server: Apache/1.2.5 FrontPage/3.0.4
Last-Modified: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 20:10:05 GMT
ETag: "3b815-2d9-3692719d"
Content-Length: 729
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html
Incidentally, it looks like Microsoft *does* provide these server extensions, but I'd rather use the GPL'ed version... (provides source, isn't as slow as ftp.microsoft.com, etc...
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Patrick Volderking does Slackware, and the official distributor is Walnut Creek CDROM. InfoMagic probably makes a Slackware CD, but they probably also make RedHat and Debian and etc. cd's.
Considering how cheap bandwidth is with various places that will host a site (like he.net), I don't know why they appear to be running it off a 386 over a 14.4 dialup. As for it being not so pretty, even the old linux.org site was infinitely better. I had to scroll three screens over to see the header text.
This is also a prime example of why frames have such a bad reputation. I've seen 12 y/o kids put together nicer junk over on geocities in their first attempt. At least the people behind linux.com managed to tile a background, sorta.
And what's the deal with using Microshaft FrontPage? That's not exactly the best way to promote Linux as an alternative, or at least I don't think it is.
And I still hate it. I hardly ever post comments, but here I am posting to this for the second time just because I hate linux.com so much.
Having spent the better part of the last two years trying to prove to friends and people I work with Linux is for real, it's garbage like this that can undo all the work almost instantly. Linux is at a point where it needs to be promoted not only as tons of fun, but as a professional and personal solution for the proprietary garbage people have been fed for the last two decades.
Seeing FrontPage mentioned seriously offends me. M$ and what they stand for is the exact polar opposite of what Open Source projects like Linux stand for. Claiming the use of FP is necessary because the tools for creating sites under Linux essentially suck is not good promotion. If you can't do the job right, let someone who can do it for you.
Be glad there's one more Linux site out there and stop being so critical. At least their site works.
Instead, if you have professional Internet design / development experience, use the feedback form at the site, and offer some constructive criticism, or your time to help create a more usuable site.
.org hierarchy exists), etc.
I agree that this site is NOT -currently- much to look at. However, with some work, it could be a terrific opportunity to reach those people who have heard of Linux, decide to visit linux.com (most people don't even know the
Since I am looking for help in maintaining the site, I sent a message to slashdot - without getting mentioned ever since...
Regards, Jochen
Regards, Geewiz
I'm not normally one for conspiracy theories,
but the content of that website is appalling,
to say nothing for the style. Mr Update? Hello?
It looks like it's deliberately bad.
Howdy, /.'s intention is to start an open and uninfluenced discussion. Giving such a negative critic in the head column is not the way to reach that goal.
I would appreciate if all authors would stay to facts in their article summary. Personally I am *not* interested in your personal opinion about a contribution.
Whether linux.com is nasty or not is a dicision, everybody can make himself.
IMHO CmdrTaco clearly misused his position. We have seen that with sengan and his column about the latest US/UK offensive against Irak.
To all authors: Most of us are old enough to judge the things ourselves. I would higly appreciate if article summarys would be free from emotional and personal bias.
Regards Tobias
is it just me, or is the title "LinuxDotCom" an attempt to be as cool as Slashdot?
because it didn't work.
This site needs to be taken out of its misery. "Free trial version" of Linux? What the hell is this? I do not want Linux (tm) to become synonymous with demo software. Sad, and this has gone too far.
When I loaded the page, Tux looked like he was stretched on the rack and looked like a beanpole. What's going on here?
Well, the you don't need to scroll to the bottom to see it's a FrontPage job. What amuses me is that he's "using frontpage because netscape sucks", more or less. Someone buy this guy a clue and tell him about vi, emacs, pico, joe, or any other linux text editor... if you can't hack HTML by hand, you don't need to be making web pages (there are those who can, but chose not to, that's different).
And on top of it all, the site is hideously slow. I didn't even bother going very deep, since it was taking forever on my multiple-T3 link to the world.
I hope he gets lots of comments sent to the link on the page.
Is it just me, or has the site been slashdotted?
What has the world come to, when someone that has submitted kernel patches also uses Frontpage to design web pages?
Maybe it's just me, but I can see why Linus would have rejected his patches. Frontpage, or most any HTML editor is no substitute for coding it yourself and knowing exactly what is on the page.
This is different. freshmeat.net is not an obvious first choice for newcomers looking for Linux information, and so there is no obligation to be relevant (I think the new format is pretty good, btw).
linux.net and linux.com are obvious first places however. As such it isn't unreasonable to expect the owners of these sites to publish Linux information, or at least put in some prominent links to more appropriate starting points.
Is it really appropriate for linux.net to be selling CDs of windows development products?
Sheesh - look at the aspect ratio on the poor guy!
to bring shame to the name Linux.
It is so sad.
Please Fred van Kempen, show that it is not true,
show that you still support Linux, give up the domain linux.com and whatever else you have. I am shure Linus will take another kernel patch from you, maybe... please...
It is so sad.
yeah, but still.. what self respecting linux user would even remotely consider touching frontpage with a 10 foot pool! Frontpage is about the most worthless program on the face of this planet... The messed up HTML it spits out is a discrace! I can spot a site generated with frontpage from a mile away....
And apparently running on NT or a 386 since it
is now slow as a dog.
What's so bad about linux.org ? I've used it quite a few times as a gateway to the FAQs/HOWTOs.
I have to agree that linux.com and linux.net seem to have a most un-Linux-like focus.
D
Jeez... is the site connected to 28.8 modem? :)
I can get some pings to it but the transfer time is horridious. Anyone think it is kinda of funny that it is slow compared to other sites?
-- Amazing how the Internet still humms along.... -- Dispite all the flaws of Micro$oft in their software!
My god.
It's hideous.
I quote: "The web site is designed and managed with Microsoft FrontPage 98. Not pretty, agreed, but a whole lot better at the job than for example Netscape, which basically only has an HTML editor. Now that they (Microsoft) have created a Linux version of their Server Extensions, perhaps they'll also be as smart for the baseline package itself... FrontPage for Linux"
What the fsck is wrong with VI and a bunch of perl scripts?
Sheesh. If one isn't capable to build a decent site, then for the love of god, he shouldn't.
-W
That might not be such a bad idea - point the names to a Yahoo like directory that deals exclusively with Linux and Linux related web sites and resources.
Administer as most other Linux projects are...
"Although we may build the technology that we define as tools, we must be vigilant that those tools do not define us."
Gee....this is evil.
It must be a Microshaft new FUD tactics.
ok, If you don't want to run it as a general purpose linux site how about a for sale sign?
:-)
Maybe include a link to linux.org, kernel.org, etc?
I am sure we could compile a list of top 100 linux sites to include on your page.
The crash kit gives the wrong impression. Only for redhat5.0???
Chuck
p.s. is the previous post for real?
Hiyas!
;-)
:(
Unlike most of you creeps who are too nerdly to post things with your full name and address, here's my comment to recent issues.
Linux.COM has been mine for a long time. I never sold out to major moneymakers. I never used it for personal pleasure (although I could have, given the fact the domain's mine) and I never did anything with it.
Robert Stockmann's comments earlier in this flame war (hey Rob - "no flames" the rules say?) is about correct - that's how this thing happened.
Now, so all of you can rest in peace: I have sold the domain to a party that will make all of you *AND* me happy. They'll probably send out the official press release. Things look good - and they will do what I always wanted the domain to be: the definive source for anyone seeking info on how to use/deploy Linux in a commercial environment. And that includes a stuffed ftp.linux.com !
And yes, I work for Microsoft, Cisco and COMPAQ these days. Rumors *are* true as far as that is concerned
The web site I have taken down to save on my leased line, which, unfortunately, is not a T3
Cheers,
Fred