Slashdot Mirror
India's Red Alert - no more US software
jplove writes "From the Economic Times in India is this story
about the Indian
Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) issuing a `red alert' against all network security software developed in the US..
The story says the Indian Central Vigilance Commissioner, N Vittal, indicated he
might make it mandatory for all Indian banks and financial institutions to buy only software developed in India.
"
What makes them think that only US companies are fronts for US intelligence agencies?
They probably have more programming talent than the US anyway.
How long till China follows suit?
Microsoft never gets localization stuff right
anyway. I'd be surprised if Microsoft products
ever worked worth beans in China or India.
They're clueless.
An excellent article to be forwarded to your congress critter... perhaps they will then grow a brain cell and break down the "crypto iron curtain".
This is very good.
US policies on encryption hurt everyone, including US citizens. Hopefully more countries will follow India's lead, and the resulting pressure will force changes in US policy.
Windows has always been full of "easter eggs" and code to sabotage competitors. I wonder what else is in there, just waiting to be activated when the time is ripe.
I think the US likes to run a full court press -- they'll drop bombs and they'll put time bombs in software, if they think it's useful and they feel they could get away with it. (It's the latter that makes me skeptiecal of this, though.)
It's just another argument for open source.
I completely agree. This is exactly what US companies had predicted when laws barring the exportation of "strong encryption" were first enacted. Hopefully, more nations and multinational corporations will follow suit and stop purchasing US software where encryption is implemented weakly (if at all).
On the downside (for the USA at least), it appears that our countries (USA) have undermined the work of US software makers. In the article, another reason for disallowing banks and government computers from using American software was that we are perceived as a hostile nation and since they have no access to the source code of proprietary produces exported to these nations, they cannot trust that they don't have backdoors or "time bombs."
Of course, this is as good an argument as any for the use of Open Source produces in mission-critical applications. Maybe the'll consider using Linux/GNU since the workings are available to anyone.
Another upside -- There are a lot of talented Indian programmers who have been "imported" to this country to fill jobs here. They are typically underpaid and not always apprieciated by they American's who they were competing against for jobs. Hopefully, this will strengthen the tech business in India, offering employmentment for the many other talented programmers who can't find work.
More programming talent than US Companies, huh?
Of the Indian programmers I have had experience,
one was an absolute genius, one was very good, and the other ten or so are so stupid it amazes me,
and they were the ones with master's degrees.
Hopefully all the intelligent ones stayed home.
Even software developed *in your own country* might have backdoors in it. Who's to say there aren't Windows NT kernel developers in the employ of hostile foreign powers? That's not too implausible; Microsofties are clearly motivated solely by money.
The only *truly safe* software is Open Source, in the long run. It's too bad they didn't reach that logical conclusion.
Controlling a country's foreign policy by blackmail is nothing new to the United States.
Remember that whole Clinton/China thing? Well, it's still there. Everyone who had any involvement in the affair has fled to China. Thus we see China get away with civil rights abuses, persecution of all faiths, and MFN trade status that they wouldn't get unless there was something "under the table".
So political control by government is nothing new. Clinton would be kicked out of office if he stepped over China's line: all of those people who have been subpoenaed in the case would come trickling out.
BTW, let's impeach Sengan too.
Supposedly this was a software package for police agencies made in the US, sold to our allies and enemies, and with lots of back doors. It means the CIA and NSA can go and do the Macarena on the criminal databases of many nations (maybe even Iraq, I think) with impunity. All I know is rumors, but rumors say that a lot of people were killed over PROMIS.
Hopefully all the intelligent ones stayed home.
well, at least they had something in common with you.
Weel, the U.S. is an exception, because we do have more geniues. And Inda does have less. Why? Because we import all of the genius. Don't believe me? Look at where all the IIT grads, etc go, and the "brain drain" of the last century....
Aside from the obvious -- that American export controls will only cause smart people in other
countries to create their own strong encryption -- why should Americans give up an advantage like
having strong encryption and the ability to efficiently conduct espionage?
Last I checked, not everyone on this planet wants to live in peace. In the final analysis, I don't want my country's security compromised.
This is a serious question and I'd love to hear some reasoned responses.
I wonder if the software made in those Bangalore sweat shops counts as made in India? Probably not...
The issue is network security. No one with a brain is going to trust for security anything the NSA can easily break or backdoor into.
Where is the surprise in this? You don't have secure networks unless you're sending data you don't want someone else to have. That someone might even be the US government, though agents of the US government are all advanced, caring, trustworthy souls with altruistic motives, a strongly-developed sense of fair play, and a passionate belief in strict legality.
Looks like good thinking in Bombay. Thinking is good. Good thinking is better.
I guess you are sadly mistaken. British were not in india for some kind of charitable mission. They were here to siphon off as much wealth as they could. It was only that towards the end, India was in such a condition that not much was forthcoming. I agree that they have built a lot of the infrastructure that we have here. But that was done to be more efficient, so as to make more money.
I agree that India could have gained independence in a better way. There should have been no partition.
These reasons (Logan, Ramsey, axolotl, jerodd) make sense. Am I to believe then that the US ;-) are so naive. Can there be *any* method to their madness?
intelligence and security community is comprised of complete idiots? I find it hard to believe
that they all (most maybe
While China does constitute a very big threat to India, Pakistan is India's true enemy. The fairly rabid nationalistic gov. of India set off their bombs to announce to the world and especially Pakistan that they are still a nuclear capable country. What happens next? Pakistan raises the stakes by setting off their own bomb (their first ever), thereby joining the select few known nuclear capable nations. I don't think that India was too thrilled by this last turn of events.
/. decorum percludes me from commenting on your observation about the intelligence of the average American.:-)
All this takes place while most of the world is negotiating a comprehensive test ban treaty that will essentially ban all future nuclear bomb tests (IIRC, certain bomb component testing will still be allowed).
One should view the term munitions not as armament like bombs and guns, but as material that can be used for warfare. I checked my dictionary (an old Merriam-Webster) for the definition of munition. Encryption is then munition as it can used to protect the military lines of communication.
Finally, I agree with you that this is a good move on the part of India. India certainly has the computer ppl to do their own software development. As a side note, the largest percentage of H1-B applicants to the US are from India. And
To get rid of stupid cryto laws and to use free software!
Snoop
I wouldn't be surprised if the Canadian government tried to pull something similar to this. The CRTC already contemplated controlling Canadian's access to the internet. Somehow, I don't think Anne of Green Gables would make a great first person shooter but maybe thats just me.
They're gonna force the US to relax encrpytion laws and the opening of source code.
I've worked at several "cool" places, and I've
never met an Indian super-hacker-genius type.
I've met alot who will work 36 hours straight
and will not go home even when told to leave
work. Their work was usually pretty damn bug
ridden.
That's not to say that there aren't good Indian
programmers. But I just don't think that the
ratio is that high. India doesn't have the
educational or industrial infrastructure contrary
to all the hype. Most people there are pretty much
dirt poor -- how many households have personal
computers much less indoor plumbing?
I'm not trying to sound deragatory; I have several
friends from India, many of whom are smart in
other disciplines. In fact, the owner of my
company is an Indian female. But I've not met good
Indian programmers, yet.
yup, after they get their new security sofware written, they'll be selling it through 7-11's in the US.
i saw it on "the simpsons"
only some third rate BASIC using moron would
write a localized program. any serious engineer
would internationalize it.
localization for human languages is basically like
releasing a different install tree for each architecture a program will run on,
like if there was linuxm68k and linuxi386 instead
of how it is now, linux/arch/m68k and linux/arch/i386
with the architecture independent stuff in the other directories.
i fail to understand how such smart hackers can be so blatantly ignorant of this.
Thank you! Come again!
E Ji.
that was fucking racist hanna?
pity a poor irishman and tell me what the hell you're saying, man!
"One should view the term munitions not as armament like bombs and guns, but as material that can be used for warfare. I checked my dictionary (an old Merriam-Webster) for the definition of munition. Encryption is then munition as it can used to protect the military lines of communication."
*please* tell me that you're just trolling, or being sarcastic.
with the same logic, *anything* is a munition. to borrow another poster's example, food is a munition, because it can be used to fuel the kids who are the cannon fodder that makes war work.
or, to adapt your example, telephones and radios are munitions, because they can be used by armies to communicate during a war.
you don't need a dictionary to figure this one out. you just need to use your own brain.
You won't find a piece of software available in the USA which was written anywhere else (save for US companies which have outsourced to workers overseas). It's not just Indian software which is unavailable; it's international software in general.
> Believe it or not the US intentions with the
> bombing of Iraq was not to start a war, or to
> increase tension between the countries, but to
> stop a war that could kill millions of people
There aint a person outside the US who believes that, charlie. The Gulf War (v1.0 and 2.0) was started by the US for three reasons:
1. To ensure the continued dominance of US oil companies
2. To further the image of the US military as a "global police force"
3. To distract attention from domestic political issues
enough said. whenever i see this drivel posted on a great forum like slashdot, i can't help but wonder how many decent people are driven away from linux and the open concept.
something really needs to me done to eliminate these bigoted posts.
what a loser.
(I'm trying to post this in a web browser, I've found slashdot a POS forum that only supports Netrape, I e-mailed this to him, and am posting this, unedited, if it works.)
> Consider what has happened recently in India and then tell me why this
> is the fault of "bad software from the United States."
> 1. India elected a new nationalist government.
There was a POS liberal gov't there before, which was screwing things up,
people wanted a change. What the hell would you want an anti- gov't in your country? (Hmm, I think the US should elect a
president that things that the US is a stupid pos country that should die..
What the hell!? ANY country which votes for leaders which hate its country
(or are anti-it in any way), has SERIOUS problems.) (Nationalist gov't. Hah.)
(And not that I'm saying the new gov't is better, but..)
> 2. India detonated...six nuclear devices...that was the number right?
(I should know this, but don't. So sue me.) Something like that. So? I
COMPLETELY fail to see how this is related to the topic, WHATSOEVER? Do..
you have any clues or..?
They detonated one or some in the late '70s, and several more in 1998.
(They would've detonated in '94 instead of '98, except for the fact that the
US "caught" them in 1994, this year India completely outsmarted [all] the US
"Intelligence" Agencies. (BTW: This is before the so-called election
mentioned in pt #1, incase you didn't already realize! Two points... FALSE!)
> 3. The United States decided it was time to stop exporting software
> and equipment to India and Pakistan that would help thier nuclear
> programs.
They've decided this.. what.. SEVERAL years ago? Actually I was wondering
why, but I guess I just answered my own question, maybe it was after the
attempted nuclear tests in '94. Who knows, any country not in the US's
pocket, (That isn't considered economically similar/superior/whatever..),
tends to be looked down at by the US. Suprise? Uhh, no. More like, 'No
shit.'
Pakistan? F-117s, (except stupid senators like (my own from calif, sigh!)
Feinstein think they should be given.) I don't remember bans on F117s or
other such things for India. BUT! High performance supercomputers, yes. (So
what is India's answer? hmm.. Let's build our own! Cheaper and faster than
any Cray (or any other computer available!))
I don't remember any restrictions specifically recently on hw/sw related to
'thier' (sic!) nuclear program(s).
> So why does this action by India point the the decline of American
> software. If India had done this to Israel or Germany it would not
> have recieved the negative comments about those countries.
If you don't know that US software is shit, just look, NT just failed the
essential test the other day (week? Whatever) so it can't be used by US or
Canadian gov'ts. HELLO! And ALL Encryption software created in the US is
'crippled' to (potentially) breakable levels. (42 or 56-bit? I guess it
depends. rc5 already cracked them though.)
(Not to mention, the other point mentioned in this paragraph, was already
disputed by a follow-up.)
HAH! You've completely failed to make a vaguely remotely semi-valid point!
(And I don't know anything either!)
And as for that last sentence, HUH?! (And actually Israel, Germany, Russia,
etc, are all a LOT smarter and nicer to India than is the US. IIRC, NO other
country has placed restrictions on exports to India (Bharat).)
> "I'm not used to the laughter of children - it cuts through me like a
> dentist drill..."
Well, they have a lot to laugh at.
-Ajay
Anyway, the software is being developed by an Indian government institution, right? So they're sort of developing it themselves. Although we all know how corrupt the government is over there sometimes.
Mister NatePuri has done his countrymen a disservice by his comments here today. His conduct is disgraceful. /. is not the forum for such flame wars. Mister Puri's original flamebait came as a result of someones innocent comments on your average East Indian programmer working 37 hours straight, but having bug ridden code. /. again until he learns some discretion.
He is too typical of East Indians. They are very smart people, and thus also quick to cry RACISM at the slightest opportunity.
Give it up.
These observations were valid, being based on experience. The fact that this degenerated into a flame war makes me sad. I sincerely recommend Mister Puri not post to
Ok, I'm Indian. I'm in CS. And I dislike a lot of other Indian peoples' spread of FUDishness like this. I don't think that my ancestry has much to do with my programming ability.
Want me to mail you some sample code? Hehehe... there are far too many fake CS people of any nationality, IMHO.
Bangalore is a single city. It is in Karnataka(sp?).
NatePuri, are you trying to make an ass of our people? Because you're doing a good job at it.
No, I think you're just mad in general. Cut it out, you're annoying me.
Aren't most Indians and Europeans the same race, anyway?
You are forgetting groupdynamics. They maybe smart and do smart things individually and be stupid collectivly and do stupid things together. One does not exclude the other.
That is about the average ratio at a normal college from what I've seen. :-) The idiots generally flock around the genius and get help with their programs in order to get through the classes to graduate.
(I'm not the AC who posted that idiotic remark)
...
... is there something wrong with being a virgin ? You claim to be "spiritual" in another post. If you were, you would understand that virginity is plays a big role in the spirituality of many people of this world.
..." : Need I say more ?
:)
You are fighting prejudice with more prejudice. Not a very smart nor mature response IMHO.
Let's see
American: Are you assuming all (North)Americans view Indians as the original AC does ?
Teenager: Surely teenagers are not the only morons in this world.
Virgin: Humm
"Daddy's an alcoholic, mommy
Not from California nor NY : (?) What, the rest of the US is riddled with racists ??? I don't live in either of these states, and I work with lots of Indians. I surely don't see them discriminated all the time !
Anyways, please think a little bit before responding like this. When fighthing bigotry and stereotypes, it helps if your arguments don't contain *any* stereotypes. As it is, right now, you look very similar as the jerk who originally posted the comment.
Hope that helps
Video games *are* software ...
Metal Gear Solid, Zelda, Tekken {1,2,3}, and hundreds (or thousands) of other games - Japan.
The Tomb Raider series I think is developed in England (at least the 1st one).
Canada is not the US, so Corel is a good example
of a non-US company selling software in the US.
Your "apology" is %5 apology %95 calling many people in this forum "racist". Before you go on and continue calling people such a thing, I recommend you reread all your posts, and tell me why, under your definition, you don't qualify as a racist yourself.
Until you tone it down, please keep it shut. Self serving half baked apologies don't cut it.
Similarly, the NSA is good at capturing and analysing communications, so they want to continue doing that. Not because it's a good idea, but because it's what they know. They clearly aren't stupid, they just refuse to accept reality, because reality requires that they change their methods, and probably become obsolete.
Secondly, it's been proven through various FOIA requests that the export controls were intended less to control international use of cryptography than to control domestic use by forcing US companies to either sell two different products with different encryption levels, or to sell one product with encryption the NSA could easily crack. Check the Web for more details.
Finally, "intelligence" operations have generally been more trouble than they're worth. See, for example, recent evidence about the US exploiting the Iraq weapons inspectors, using them to spy on Iraq rather than to look for weapons. As a consequence, there are no longer any weapons inspectors in Iraq, and in return for the extremely dubious "intelligence" value of those operations the world is a much more dangerous place; thanks to the stupidity of the US "intelligence" services Saddam can now get on with building his nukes and bioweapons in peace.
Military (or government) intelligence is a contradiction in terms.
--Anon
"If they're so smart, why don't they move outta the flood plain?"
If the folks in Silicon Valley are so smart, why don't they move away from the faults?
The article states that they are worried about the fact that they don't have the source to code and so there may be back doors that could be exploited by the US government... Sounds to me like if they were using OSS they wouldn't have this problem...
sam wilson
swilson@bugs.cs.wcupa.edu
Dude why dont you go back to india if you dont like america so much, who is forcing you to stay here, go back to india, stop buying american stuff, stop wearing american clothes, stop using any and all technology invented or pioneered by americans, stop working at 7-11, be a pundit in some hindu temple or something, if you want to be enjoying america and american stuff then show some fucking respect, asswipe.
Don't be so fuckin' stupid.
The balance of power? China could fuck you all over a hundred times and your asses wouldn't be able to do shit, remember China's got American missles and all you got is a bunch of v2s, how the fuck are you going to get your missles over the mountains and in to china. India = poverty, Indians = hungry.
I think you forgot to mention one point, US doesn't have the other 800 million who are starving. In order to destroy india you don't need to kill all 1 billion, just 200 million rich ones, living in cities like bombay, new delhi and calcutta. That will take 3 to 5 missiles with megaton output, that is really achievable, can you say stone age.
"What can I say? I lost it..."
Its probably in you turban or you probably left it under to counter at 7-11, you will probably find it there if look real close.
17, 'nuff said...
You guys don't know how intensely Maryland Procurement is following India/Pakistan. they're the next superpower. Lots of smart people and lots of irrational people, formidable capabilities, and large economy. That large economy is key- if they ever get money(ha!), India would be a superpower larger than the US.
-(ex-conspirator, now some slashdot luser.)
I have heard from a reliable source that during the initial hours of the original Desert Storm mission the "allies" activated a logic bomb in some critical Iraqi integrated C3I systems.
The bomb was designed into the systems with the tacit authority of the US DOD, once the US became aware that the weapons customer was Iraq.
The US liked Iraq to fight the "Commy" backed Iran government, but needed to protect its own ass in case it ever came up against Iraq itself.
The bomb was activated by means unknown - possibly a radar beam or other signal. It behaved in a worm-like manner, spreading through the system and preventing or disrupting communications, command and control and intelligence gathering functions.
This is only anecdotal hearsay - but were I the government of either India or Pakistan, and I wanted to continue playing with my nukes even though Big Daddy US doesn't want me to, I would most certainly not purchase US software for my most critical systems!!!!
Hi,
;) : .001% of all .001% also usually tends to be from the upper 5% as far as intelligence and dedication goes. The same holds true of most asians. So, you can think whatever you like, but the truth is that your relatives which have worked very hard to come to america were among the very brightest of the indian people.
This is my first slashdot post, but here goes. I would like to reiterate the point made below by the person being accused of being a racist by the indian guy:
Some coward wrote
One thing that kind of irks me though, is that you assume because the indian minority does well in the united states,that they are some sort of super race or whatnot. Maybe I misread your statements, but the real reason you see intelligent indians is because the process leaving india to come to america is a difficult one, and maybe
indians are capable of it. That
This is absolutely true, and it seems a fact that is not really understood by a lot of the Indian people who I have been acquanted with. (I am of Indian origin myself). I find that racism is in general *more* prevelant in Indians than in other ethnic groups or the white majority (this has been my personal experience with a lot of people). This is also confirmed by the bullshit politics of religion and culture in India.
heh. seems they're using internet access a therapeutic tool at the state home for the mentally retarded.
what a shame it's not working . . .
listen, little boy: about 140 years ago, we fought a civil war in this country to kill of the crap like you. apparently we missed a few. if we have to do it again, i'll volunteer in a heartbeat. got it?
I'm a different guy, but I think you're a lot less mature than the immediate previous poster. Can't you take a joke?
ha -- i once knew a southerner who had that attitude about racial "humor" directed towards black people. (incidentally, i'm white) so anyhow, to demonstrate why i objected, i told her a joke about alabama. the word "cracker" appeared in it, of course . . .
she didn't think it was at all funny when it was directed at her. "oh, but that's different!" bullshit, it's just the same. in fact, she hated me poisonously for years after that.
would you laugh if you were on the other end?
let's try it:
it's a shame about your trailer blowing away, cracker boy, but at least your wife (er, sister, sorry, heh heh) managed to get your pickup truck off the blocks in time.
now, was that a joke? no, it wasn't a joke. it was just bullshit. there's no humor there, just a list of dumbass stereotypes. the only reason to enjoy it is because you hate southerners. anbody who doesn't hate southerners will look at it and be either irritated or depressed. just as the only reason you mistook that shithead's abuse for a "joke" is the fact that you're an illiterate, inbred dirtball who's scared of foreigners. why are you scared? probably because they can read and write, and their parents have different last names.
ha ha.
it's a joke, right? right.
here's another way to look at it: if that shithead had flamed Nate for any other reason than Nate being indian, you'd be pissed off at the shithead instead of at Nate. do you get it now?
Actually, given Ken Thompson's back door, even software you write yourself isn't necessarily safe if you have to use somebody else's compiler.
Toggle it in by hand from the front panel switches, that's the only way to be sure.
And then only if you've built the computer yourself.
From homemade chips and transistors.
Heck, considering what Clinton has done to the US military, between demoralizing it and near disarming it (we've expended what, nearly half our cruise missiles between Iraq and Afghanistan?), you have to ask yourself "what would he be doing different if he *were* working for a foreign government?".
The answer ("not much") is disturbing.
(BTW, consider the time he spent as a student in the USSR, and that it was common KGB practise to use female agents to get foreigners into situations where they could be secretly filmed/photographed for blackmail purposes. The question is how China gets into that act.)
>The New York Times
>
>ha. the burger king of journalism.
What's wrong with Burger King? I love Burger King.
And learn how to type. ALL CAPS is yelling, and people don't like that. but no caps anywhere, even for proper names like burger king, reagan, iran, etc., can sometimes be more iritating than all caps.
AC
engine, engine, engine, engine, engine, hey, I no you... four score and 7 years ago...four score and seven years later we have engine, engine, engine, engine, towel headed engine...
i hope you don't think you're making any sense.
That's why you think jokes about your own race are funny. You do it just to impress these racists.
my POINT, asshole, was that jokes about race are NOT funny, okay? read the fucking post.
fuck you.
You are pathetic with no pride...
my pride, which in fact borders on arrogance, is based on my own abilities. it has nothing whatsoever to do with my race. if your pride is based on your race rather than on what you yourself are worth, then you're just as bad as these dumbasses.
again: fuck you.
Either you are not an indian, if you are then you haven't been there in quite a while or if you have then you don't realize what 95 % of the indians are like. I personally think that the 7/11 joke was pretty funny, and believe it or not, half the indians i know (I know quite a bit, being an Indian myself) either work at a convinient store or a motel, so lets cool it now, ok.
From the history of Enigma that I know of, and in my country we talk about this alot:
Enigma was originally developed in Holland, it was simple, and it was just before WWII..
Germans took it and extended it. No one ever knew back then that something like this existed.
Finest polish mathematitians (not the profs, but brightests students) were grouped to break it. They had no luck till someone gave them (?smuggled?) the dutch prototype, what clued them in.
They sent all their info to England, where famous Alan Turing continues as germans were constantly imporoving the way wheels were changing. (there is famouse case that English knew about city bomb attack from decoded messages, but never warned anyone not to inform germans that they knew how germans encode their data).
Germans sent a crappy version of enigma to Japan (as they had a war with US). Japanese expected for it to be a rather crappy version by then so they imrpoved it.. During the whole war US never fully cracked Japanse Enigma, and they did have few parts off of it.
....
Thats from what I know.. I never induldged into any new advances in Enigma technology, and maybe brute force could crack it now easly, but back then US couldnt (and they nack then tried to brute force it, but ended nowhere, i still remember movies about, and those big machines making holes on paper strips).
BTW: In Poland we talk mainly about those mathematitians that cracked first Enigma, and whatever else is unfortunatelly omitted. Alan Turing is not mentioned for which I am sorry, but thats how they teach everything.. a bit too patritic.. oh well.. now you know how I learned about this..
Vidar Hokstad wrote:
On the contrary. This should be great for India, because it finally create a larger market for software development for domestic use, as opposed to for export.
Even better, once they get their own software together for their local use, they can export it under their own labels to other countries. Should be easy to sell:
"Their software is unsecure. Our software is not only as secure as you want it to be, but we've got proper internationalization support as well."
If they play their cards right, there are alot of emerging markets out there where they could become the primary supplier.
----
Open mind, insert foot.
liang wrote:
If they can do a nuclear test without the US awareness, they can do it again.
The US was aware of the nuclear test. Everyone was aware of their nuclear test. That was the point of the test, to put knowledge of their nuclear capability out of the intellegence agencies' files and into public awareness. Pakistan's reply was for a similar purpose.
----
Open mind, insert foot.
How so? Remember, India didn't sign the Wassenaar Agreement.
It wouldn't be the first time a commercial product had been exported with one....
Remember all that key escrow stuff?
-- Eric
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
Enough folks in power are.
Louis Freeh (director of the NSA), for one. Also, don't underestimate the cluelessness of the US Congress; As I see it, they're largely afraid that if after a repeal of the export laws some terrorist group is shown to use strong crypto, they'll be held to blame.
Effing' idiots...
You're quite right.
The problem with these laws is they are problematical mainly to the law-abiding.
:[
If I were intent on providing strong cryptography to bad people, I could. I could upload it to them over the Net, for example, and who could really stop me? I could put it on a CD-ROM and send it through the mail as well, maybe bury it in a box full of goodies for 'Grandma'. Post office can't check everything.
Meanwhile, businesses who want to follow the law and want to sell software abroad have to sell either crippled cryptography with their software or not provide it at all.
Welcome to the United States
Posted by Phantom of the Operating System:
Microsoft is doing software development in India,
or did we all forget that.
Point 1: YEP. Personally I belive in ethanol, but it is hard to find it when not mixed with oil.
2: Sigh, wish it wasn't true. Saddly the world has proved they will draw the US into their struggles. So now we try to stop potential world wars early. If it is working is up for debate. Most people I know in england think world war I was the greatest thing, it had to happen. They support their ancesters dancing in the streets when it broke out. I havn't talked to people in other nataions, but my impression is much of Europe was that way. Belive it or not, most of the US wants to be an isolationist as far as military goes. It doesn't work, we are too large, and have (currently) too much technology that can apply to military uses to not be drawn in. Ever noticed that Switcherland is the only country to maintain nutrality, and they are suck in mountains. There are lots of little nations (Netherlands comes to mind) that want to do the same thing, but they too are drawn into these conflicts because of their location.
3: Sigh. There are too many idiots in the US. I think most of them are waking up to that use. We belive in coincidences once (critics of George Bush will point something out here), but the second time we start asking questions.
Oh, and a part of the Gulf war was Kuwait (got no idea how to speel that) was friendly, Iraq wasn't as friendly. We protect our friends even if there is no way they can help protect us. Now perhaps that goverment didn't deserve protection I don't know (I look at them as the lesser of the two evils, friendly to the US, or ruled by Iraq being the choices)
In summery: World peace has not happened yet, and few people belive it will happen in their lifetime. Pointing out any country as not helping world peace doesn't really take into account that peace gained at the hands of whips and chains isn't worth it. (If your not in the US you probably won't recignise where that came from, If you are a US citician and don't please kill yourself and rid the world of a fool)
Consider what has happened recently in India and then tell me why this is the fault of "bad software from the United States."
1. India elected a new nationalist government.
2. India detonated...six nuclear devices...that was the number right?
3. The United States decided it was time to stop exporting software and equipment to India and Pakistan that would help thier nuclear programs.
So why does this action by India point the the decline of American software. If India had done this to Israel or Germany it would not have recieved the negative comments about those countries.
Please learn to use proper punctuation, and to
always write complete sentences.
****Gfx Scrollbar Special case hit!!*****
*sigh* it's impossible for any topic to come up on slashdot without some luser whining about microsoft. get a life!
i suspect the real reason is protectionism - india has the beginning of a powerful software industry, but for now they're heavily dependant on foreign business - this could be an attempt to change that.
see 'decline and fall' by ed yourdon for more in india.
microsoft's mission has always been "a computer on every desktop" and that's exactly what they've always tried to do.
this is true, although there seems to be some sort of general feeling amongst the linux public that making money by selling software is evil, and since microsoft are the best at doing this, they are to be criticised at every step.
now, folk make a lot of noise which say that MS take away freedom of choice whereas the exact opposite is true - bill gates simply exercises his freedom more than most, and his success is the proof.
can't you see that you are violating gates right to free trade with this lawsuit?
you *don't* have the right to buy whatever you want - only the right to buy what you are offered.
any claim that MS have taken away choice is sheer nonsense - linux is the proof.
This is the kind of pressure we need. This may well spur U.S. software companies (including, perhaps, our big-stick-carrying friends in Redmond) to pressure the Government to dispose of the crypto export restrictions.
How illuminating. A sovereign state made a decision, then everybody says the goverment went to shit. I think this is great not only for India, but for all underdeveloped countries. There has been a massive exodus of professionals from these countries to countries which don't really appreciate their contributions. This kind of decisions should (read should) serve as an incentive for the growing software industry. This would give these emigrating professionals a better opportunity to stay in their homelands. Besides, no goverment should depend on software developed in other (potentially competing) countries for mission critical systems.
I think the Indian goverment has a sound argument for making this decision. As is it quoted in the article, no software can be exported from the U.S. if it is too strong for the NSA to break it. No one in the US can expect anyone anywhere to trust US "secure" software under these terms. In fact, this should not come as a surprise. If I were a banker or someone runing a military installation in XYZ country, if I had a chance to not to use US encryption software and use something "stronger" I would. Isn't that logical? For tactical and economic reasons, this should be expected.
But no, you got people saying "Indian goverment went to shit", "indian programmers are dumb", "what the f* are they doing here" and some other crap. Even worse, if an Indian replies to these bigot comments, he is bombarded with "get the f* out" replies. What do you people expect, that Indians just take your brainless crap just because you say so? I don't think so.
Everytime there is an article regarding a underdeveloped country you see crap like this. All the time it is the same shit. How do you call that? Racism, just plain racism. You don't need to burn a cross or put somebody in a gas chamber to be a racist. Your attitude, your comments, the stereotypes you hold, they make (or not) you a racist. Lots of people seem to dislike (hate) 3rd world programmers because they are more willing to accept lower salaries than native ones (natives - what an irony.) Is it these people's fault to be resilient and be eager to do whatever it takes to make a living or the companies that take advantage of the situation? Can you blame a company for hiring someone who is willing to work for less? If so, blame yourselves because these companies work as your society allows it. With what right can any of you say "Indians go home"? Unless you are a Native American, you have no right, no right to say that to anybody, period. It seems that you have forgotten that at one point in time your forefathers were foreign too, that they were exploited too, that they were abused, discriminated, labeled as dirty and stupid, that despite all that, they had their dreams and that they adapted and succeeded. This is survival of the fittest or more resilient or more adaptable. This is the law of competition, the American way, the acceptable way unless it's applied to you. Either force companies to pay foreign workers fairly or accept lower salaries (adapt and compete) or take a boat and cross the Atlantic. Doesn't feel good to be told these things, does it?
Because it isn't an advantage. There are a great many strong encryption systems in the world, most of which have permeated the world outside the US anyway (and once they're out of US it's legal to distribute them further from other countries).
From my desktop, anywhere in the world, I can get strong encryption software easily. Banning the export from one particular country is like blocking off one of the holes in a sieve. All it does is hurt the companies within that countries, who cannot compete in the export market.
axolotl
Whats so bad about it? Most of the indian nationals that come to the U.S. are going to stay in the U.S. India gains no advantage of sending it's citizens to the States if none of them come back. If they were to come back and use their experience then thats something.
sri
You didn't understand his comment. If you eliminate the rich and middle class, you are left with the peasants. It will take some time to rebuild (if you can after a nuclear attack) to come back the same technology level as other nations. In either case, a nuclear war within that region is a no-win situation. You can't win with nuclear weapons. Ever. There can be no excuse for murdering an entire planet.
sri
Seems very clear to me. Have you not been following whats happening in Russia? Excess of arms creates a surplus. That surplus has to be gotten rid of. It might get sold to terrorists whatever. You can't have that kind of material loose. If everyone started stocking up, especially in a no-win scenario, you'll get excess. Thats what he's trying to say.
Out of curiosity, why must you end every response with some kind of flame? Attack the issue not the person. Or is this some sort of trick you use in law school when it comes debating?
sri
The last time I check, all the Indian programmers were working on software for US companies. They're even a bunch of them working on OS/2!
--
Timur "too sexy for my code" Tabi, timur@tabi.org, http://www.tabi.org
I have a Master's degree in Computer Science.
As for my comment being racist, it's only "racist" in the sense that it talks about a particular "race" of people (I don't consider Indians to be their own race, but that's irrelevant). As for saying, "They're even a bunch of them", that was a typo. I meant to write, "There's even a bunch of them".
--
Timur "too sexy for my code" Tabi, timur@tabi.org, http://www.tabi.org
It is indeed difficult for govt organizations to get software personnel, because most go to US, or join private companies.
Govt can't pay at the levels that Industry pays.
So the question is: Is industry geared for our own software
development? Yes, if lot of companies who export software
can divert some of their investments for local market.
vinod
It seems to me that you actively try to find racist remarks in every post..
I can understand that you are proud of your heritage etc etc. The amount of pride/insecurity that you radiate is , well pathetic.
Apology accepted.
Ummm... what was racist? On a per capita basis, India is on the low side of the curve for developing nations.
In 1992 USN&WR has India listed as high as Fifth in the nation by 2000 in economic strength. I really thought and hoped that would be true. But misappropriated funds in favor of militarizaion, fraud, and political instability has not brought forth the prosperous status once believed would be there.
I didn't see anything racist, maybe exagerated and not entirely factually correct, but nothing racist. Replace the words with Mexico and see how you feel about it.
You last assertion is unfounded. Simply because there are WMD in a region, does not create a normative right to retaliatory ability. Read the Sagan articles criticizing the Waltz deterrence theory. Sagan's analysis on how multination WMD leads to instability and increase the ability for convention conflict. I have spent many, many hours on this shit.
I do not see how you get these? Do you blindly read and believe every issue of Christian Science Monitor?
You first (oil domination) has no apparent merit. (a) We allow Iraq to sell oil for domestic supplies. If we wanted dominance in the oil market we would not allow this. We are also increasing the amount they are allowed to sell. (b) There is such a glut in crude that OPEC cannot hold it back.. The idea of US ever being able to dominate crude it only a dream.
Your second (global police force) (a) has no impact. (b) This can be seen as a good deterrant. You ignore culpability of Iraq. The US is in a very unique position in such a polarized world that is has an obligation to use its position for peace.
Your third (intl distraction) could possibly be true. However, (a) Iraq did just recently recind its offer of help to UN inspectors and (b) no impact, the attack still served a valuable purpose.
On a net whole, the negative of some amorphous idea of it being used as a distraction versus the threat of WMD and weakening of UN policing is not even a comparison.
I have worked will poeple of all nationality my entire (but short) life. Some (most) of my closest friends have be Indian and among them I have me people that are no lazier, smarter, or harder working that any other race (Actually, the laziest person I have ever met was Indian, but he was also my close friend). I am very lazy, but I am not Indian.
People should be read all the literature about "The Bell Curve" and how there is more variation within a race than between races, thus defying generalizations of the race.
Damn, all y'all need to get out and meet more people.
Ohhh... Don't have the player, hate the game.
-jay
MJ, the world will miss you.
>I would not sit back and watch Pakistan and
>China stock up on ammo. I would stock up too.
GET A FUCKING CLUE. The only reason I am this pissed off at you is becuase in a previous post (about 2 below this one) you told someone the s/he needed to brushup on his military theory. It is painfully obvious that you do not know what you talking about either.
Why? First, the ad hom attacks: you have to be fucking moron to really believe this statement. There are three immediate problems:
(1) Accidental launch. There are two scearios: (a) falso information leads to a poor decision and (b) malfunction.
(2) more loose fissile material to be stolen and/or sold to terrorists.
(3) Use of loose. In a case where two countries cannot totally devistate another (as was the case in the MAD world of the Cold War), govts are faced with a use or loose scenario on buildup.
The Jamaican Government is good at playing folow-the-leader.
Now that India is leading towards no crappie insecure software for mission critical work maybe we can talk our ministers into doing the same.
Before you ask. Yes we have tried before. 3 or 4 years ago when they wanted to buy a system for voter registration which would latter be expanded to do actual voting, we lobbied and failed to have TRW disqualified. The weird thing about that one is they used them over Delarue (SP?) The british company which prints our cash.
"Look Mr. PM. Windows isn't good enough to run a business in India. They want Linux and indigenous software. Shouldn't we be importing from them and Australia sean as we have all these cool trade agreements with them anyway ?"
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
I was going to say something to the effect that the Indian government used a nuke in the past year! Which is different than using it over 50 years ago during a global war. The revisionist historians would have you believe otherwise.
But since you talk about "abosolute power corrupts absolutely." I'll agree, and add a corollary by saying that Politics is the only profession where a person can attain power without merit.
Incidentally, the US now has a very small military for its (US') size.
I've heard a joke that India gets more foreign aid from its diaspora than from the US govt.
Something tells me this is not a _totally_ ridculous assertion, maybe only partially ridiculous.
At least Slashdot hasn't sold out.
Yet.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
I don't believe you're an Indian at all. All the Indians I ever met were polite and had exceptional manners. They also didn't drone on and on about race (religion and politics, maybe).
I have met several 2nd/3rd generation Americans of Indian ancestry who were paranoid potty mouthed punks like you, however.
I suggest you leave the posters here alone and go rediscover your heritage, weasel boy.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Other companies have fronted for the NSA. Crypto A. G. in Switzerland was selling enigma boxes to foriegn governments for years with full knowledge and cooperation of the NSA. (And without telling anyone that Enigma had been broken during WWII.)
"Trademarks are the heraldry of the new feudalism."
I cannot imagine operating anything sensitive without access to source code, at least in the components of the system that are supposed to keep it secure, like network monitoring, firewalls, and cypto. Otherwise who knows what "exploitable features" might be hidden inside. This is just plain prudence, and it is good to see it publicized. Too bad it took India going nuclear (and catching the U.S. by surprise) to make the Indian government get religion when it comes to securing their data.
It will take publicity like this to make U.S. businesses relaize that they are exposed to corrupt foriegn officials with access to intelligence gathering when they operate overseas. Then we may get some reform of the crypto laws in this country.
I wrote parts of this stuff
> If they're so smart, why don't they move outta the flood plain?
Maybe because there are three times as many of them as there are of the merkans.
It only stands to reason that they should not only have more geniouses, but also more idiots (unless the US is a very exceptional case).
So, maybe you should take your foot and its rather humid surroundings somewhere else...
No, I just think the indian government has gone to shit in recent years.
-Ben
bensmith@biz1.net
The ironic thing is that U.S.-branded software probably is software developed in India by Indians.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
All Indian programmers, eh? So I would need just one example to disprove your point?
You said "all the Indian programmers were working on software for US companies". This is quite different from finding software written in India selling on the shelf in the US.
My firm deals with a number of Indian and Russian software consulting companies. One of the Indian companies produces high-end NC software for mechanical flame cutters which is sold not only in India, but in the US and Europe. I think that serves quite effectively to demolish your original statement.
Wassenaar Agreement... Sorry, I'm not familiar with that... any good sites (gosh, even books!!) ? I'll search around, but pls post if you know the jist of it off hand...
Maybe you're responding to that. I presume that means: Foot in hot water = rather humid surroundings of your foot. Or, the foot-in-mouth syndrome = moist, and perhaps even humid surroundings.
But lets jest leeve all-a-dat alone shall we?
I think the northern part of the country is relatively cool and dry. Along the northern coast it might be quite temperate.
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
When mail stops to work when Clinton's impeachment was under way? That's it :-)
Andrew
Lahore is right next door to India -- in Pakistan.
That's a mighty long border between those two countries. Can't seal it hermetically. India isn't
exactly going to have an easy time keeping Pakistani agents from applying for programming jobs. I bet a classified memo from their security agency says "it's hopeless," and that they're just being a tad whimsical with this idea.
logan
logan
"Another related point is that when we buy an imported software product that is a `black box' to us, we cannot be sure that the software package does not contain a time bomb of sorts, to cause havoc to the network when an external command is issued by a hostile nation."
:)
I like that. However, I think that the US tends to be more direct than that. Witness Iraq bombings and the like. Perhaps the world should beware of software from smaller countries though -- someplace like Japan might be plotting to take over the world through blackmail
My
India is an extreme country. They funds the nuclear project while most of their people still under poverty levels.
Don't laugh, India have the funds to make nuclear weapons, they definite can funds the crypto technology.
If they can do a nuclear test without the US awareness, they can do it again.
Who knows, maybe they will embeded linux for their government computer system 8)
As it is, India's move is logical and really called for. There is no reason why many other nations should not do exactly the same.
Many countries have now a fairly good software development capacity. With commerce and industrial secrets becoming more and more the daily care of intelligence agencies all over the world, it is plain stupidity to allow for No Such an Agency to be able to break into your (our, for that matter, Im brazilian) national infra-structure.
No poster so far gave one good reason for anyone to keep buying american weak crypto tech.
Also, the combination of free\open software with the end of american brain drain (due to the creation of local jobs) would be economically attractive to any government.
I was under the impression No Such an Agency would not run M$ products for anything other than after-hours solitaire. And even then only in a disconnected tempest-proof box.
In 1979, when the Komehini(the spelling is probably wrong) replaced the Palevi clan, the US isolated Iran from the international community. At that time China and USSR sold weapons to Iran. Sometime after that Iran was attacked by a west (mainly US and UK) armed Iraq. Iran eventually won (that is, send Iraq troops back home defeated and kept its frontiers intact). Unfortunatelly Saddam never forgot the taste of blood.
Yesterday we found out that WinNT 4.0 failed to meet basic security testing required for the US to purchase the product. Maybe India has taken this as a big warning sign that US products are inferior? Either that or they're getting smart and working to develop their own software industry.
Finding God in a Dog
There are smart and dumb everying. I can't believe educated people would make generalizations about the quality of programmers from a particular country. I'm an indian law student. My uncle was one of the founders of the floppy drive industry (remember Tandon, Inc.? no? who cares.) The point is that like or not Indian people are the wealthiest and most educated minority group in the U.S. Most of us are in the "top 2%" that causes so much controversy. I'm proud to be Indian because we have a rich and glorious culture and history. But practically speaking, many of you in the tech industry definitely work with an Indian person, or for an Indian person. From the sound of these negative stereotypical comments... well I'll say this, in CA well call y'all "player haters" you hate the real players cause you're a little bitch.
There is a huge Indian diaspora that covers the planet. I have relatives in Canada, GB, Australia, Kenya, South Africa, Omman, India, Jordan... The list goes on. We are all professionals too...
Sorry about the language, but I'm Indian and perceiving racism afoot. If you didn't mean it to be racist, you sound racist. So get it together (were you educated?). "They're even a bunch of them..." that's condescending. You are a fucking punk...
E Ji, it's a called a donation ;)
I'm pissed at the quasi-racist comments. I may have been speaking for you... I agree, that name calling is uncalled-for. Yet, slashdot readers get under my skin sometimes. People who put down others due to envy of the others' success is low. I like the term "player haters." It clearly defines a very common phenomenon these days, where people can't just be glad for someone else's success. We can all be successful. I know I will.
If you ever want to get your ass kicked... bitch, email me and I'm down to oblige you...
I was about to post a message that I'm down to kick your bitch ass. Oh I did, racism is the one thing that will make me lose my cool. Biiiiiaaaayyyaatch. It must be nice that you can post your bitch ass little remarks in your anonymous coward way. You would not say that to my face, I guarantee it. But if you were that stupid, I'd make you pay, punk.
American. Teenager. Virgin. Sexually addicted (to masturbation). Probably reasonably intelligent. From a family that does not foster proper moral value (daddy's an alcoholic or mommy plays naked twister with the neighbors). Probably not from California or New York. Probably got that 7-11 joke from the Simpsons. Summation: average intelligence, below average appearance, below average background.
Oh I forgot before... My point was that Indians are very prevalent in the technology industry. Not that I think we are "so great" just prevalent. The diversity is a good thing. Indians immigrate to different countries for various reasons. My father came here because during partition Indian universities closed. My post was so acrid because I sensed that the previous poster was a bigot, and nothing enrages me more than bigotry (I've had time to cool down so I'm cool now). If you were offended, I apologize. But it seems to me I struck a chord with you, and you seemed to say that you agree with that comment. IOW, it appears that you think educated can make generalizations. WRONG. My point is that generalizations are signs of ignorance. If you like making those, then (sorry) the "player hater" "little bitch" comment applies to you, because that's what you understand. If you don't then it doesn't. I don't know you, but I guarantee you that if you made a blunt racial overture in front of me, we'd have
to step outside. If you weren't, then we could sit down to some scotch, tell jokes, and kick it... I'm a simple man; I'm either mad or laughing...
I should not have lost my cool. By the way sucker, what's with the "Habib" remark? My name's Nate or Nathan. You obviously have a little maturity problem of your own if you still can't manage to refrain from bigotry. It's a shame; you probably think of yourself as a mature individual too.
I want to formally apologize for my behavior on this site. I made some very inflammatory remarks that, in retrospect, should not have been made. But comments that border on bigotry truly infuriorate me. Like my brother says, "makes me act my color." At that point it was red. Nevertheless, the sentiment stands. Todays threads as to this article have for the most part been rationale opinions as to the state of the economy vis a vis cryptographic export restrictions. Yet, many posters have resorted to blanket generalizations about India, Indian people, and the quality of their work and products. I'm no pro-political-correctness individual. However, more reasoned and educated responses are a necessary conduit for the communication on this website. The old addage applies: If you don't have something nice to say... Don't say anything at all. That does not mean that one cannot engage in heated debate, it means keeping the content intellectually stimulated. It does not mean infuriating, or volatile. In
the future I will ignore ignorant ACers whose sole ambition is to enrage his brother or sister. These individuals will learn life's dire lessons in due course. I tend to be a deeply spiritual person, and hold non-violence up as the most beautiful gift man could give to his world. Yet, like most men, I am subject to the whims of my body. I can become enraged. I have striken others. I have lashed out. One thing I have learned in life is that causation is a cruel and just arbiter. I do not wish to be the effect of an evil cause, nor do I wish to cause evil. When I have caused it, I've faced it. Causation has been cruel to me too. Humans behave vastly uglier now even from the ugly time in which I was born. Yet, the Earth by and large remains beautiful. We are not powerful. Power creates; ignorance destroys. At times, ignorance flourishes by destroying and festers like puss. When it has no more to break it ignorantly destroys itself. I hope I won't again; I hope you all won't act like puss.
I apologize again...
You are right. Indians have done well here, because highly educated Indians were the first to immigrate. That will change. The situation in Canada is different. More working class Indians have immigrated there. Asians in general are a very highly achieving minority group in this country. Stats show that Indians have the highest percentage of postgraduate degrees, and income over say $60,000/yr. Asians in general are a very diverse group. The socio-economic backgrounds of the immigrants varies more widely. I can't site to any specific study; (I watched a story on CNN). So maybe it's not all that reliable. I still disagree with you on the ability to make generalizations. Usually that are not valid.
You can think what you want. You don't know me. I don't care who you are, racial jokes are not funny. You won't see me laughing at any ever.
That's why you think jokes about your own race are funny. You do it just to impress these racists.
By the way, thanks homie. I was beginning to feel like David against the lions. If your anywhere near Nor Cal, email me, we'll hook up and kick down some liquor. PEACE.
The biggest problem to indian industries is the problem of not being able to import Highly secure software for important services. Though banks can import after getting special export permissions from the US government, the US government has banned export to number of indian Organizations including the DRDO. It is logical that there should be a movement within india to build better products for encryption if US government does not agree.
FYI, India started building its own parallel supercomputers after US government stopped sale of thiers to india. I guess Encryption software will follow the same route.
I think it is good... however I'm not very optimistic whether DRDO will enforce these laws.
regards
rkt
I don't agree India has the right to be hostile any more than any other country in the world. Believe it or not the US intentions with the bombing of Iraq was not to start a war, or to increase tension between the countries, but to stop a war that could kill millions of people (with chemical weapons and possible nuclear retaliation), this doesn't make it right, but we also have to consider the decision of the French and English governments in the events leading up to WW2....
Also I don't agree that any country should be allowed to do any nuclear testing at all, with every nuclear weapon explosion radioactive particles are released into the atmosphere and scattered around the globe increasing the chance of birth defects in every nation.....
I would suspect that an Indian software company with a little extra pocket change has paid off the right people to me. I agree with the sentiment though, as the US obviously sees encryption as a form of weapon, why shouldn't any other upwardly mobile country do the same?
After all, there are quite a few more Indians in the world than Americans, you'd think they'd be able to scrape some good stuff together.
Hell, even I wouldn't bus US made security software without open source (ie: none) and I live there. Why should India?
RSA went to Australia. India won't buy our stuff. Hey Congress, whatever happened to helping the US having let alone maintaining a technological leads. Maybe in 3-4 years when the gov can't buy a US made security system they'll see the error of their ways...
What's the difference between an orange?
Well, depends which Clinton/China thing to which he's referring. They're kinda intermeshed, but involved two separate things:
You might notice that both of my links point to the Judicial Watch web site. Well, you can thank Janet Reno for that, since she has been showing some major reluctance toward having the Justice Department investigate this. So much so that many of the Chinese players have fled the country. Instead, Judicial Watch (a non-profit organization which is definitely no friend of Clinton and his administration) and The New York Times have been about the only players on the forefront of making sure that the public finally learns what really happened.
Cheers,
ZicoKnow@hotmail.com
Question: How does the net worth of the previous Anonymous Coward compare to the net worth of anybody at Microsoft?
Clueless, indeed.
Have a nice day,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Remember that India is one of the worlds largest software producers. Trouble is nearly no finished products are made there currently, because Indian software companies have made much more money by doing contract work for foreign companies than for developing software for the domestic market, which is still fairly small.
This move will increase the domestic Indian market quite a bit, and may help bring about a more solid Indian software industry, that doesn't put the entire emphasis on exporting contract work, and thus making them much less volatile to changes in the European and US markets.
It wasn't that stupid. There's very few mass marketed software applications developed in India. Especially because the low average wages and the low costs of living in India, combined with a pretty decent technological level means that they have a fair share of well qualified programmers that are available at an extremely low cost. The result is that contract work is a lot more attractive for a software company in India than one in the US or Europe.
considering that the US employs the greatest percentage of Indian workers abroad, for use in the tech industry, this is not a necessarilly smart move for the Indian government, as it may come right back into their faces.
i'm not siding either way...all i am stating is the facts. india has great technological skills and dedication, but the fact is, there aren't many powerful indian companies around. most of the technological workforce is employed by the US and Japan.
How about software made in Finland *wink*