Slashdot Mirror
Mozilla M3 Release Available Now
Makali writes
"Just took a quick peek at the Sunsite FTP mirror of
ftp.mozilla.org and
Sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk
is up and contains tarballs for several platforms. Fetch! "
Downloading my copy now, now considering how badly screwed
up my machine is right now, the odds of it actually running
is about 1 in 12 *grin*.
This post made with Mozilla 5.0 Seamonkey Release. I got the rpms. Don't know about the tarball.
It does seem to be operating a lot faster.
Can't wait to see what the finished project will
look like.
Crakor - I would login but it keeps giving me
login failed
DON'T SHOOT! This post made with Win32 Mozilla
We appear to have /.'ed Sunsite Northern Europe...
Forgive my ignorance, but I thought RMS only had
a Masters in physics. Or is the 'Dr.' appelation
'honorary'?
*ponder*
It's working fine for me (London, UK) -- but I'm guessing the load is pretty high 'cause it's only coming down at 14Kb/s, which is about a third of the usual speed.
I have to agree that it is slow at first, but speeds up. I tried the browser on all my pages that I've designed - and it renders MOST of them effectively. The others it dosen't like.. most of which are tables or frames based.
Still no java support of course, and NTLM authentication is missing still. But all in all, the core seems to be nice.
As for the comment on the bloatware browser:
IE5 core install is around 12 megs. You now have the choice of what to install.
It is very fast, just 3MB, very cool!!
There appear to be two Win32 files:
p
/windows/system/?
mozilla-win32-SeaMonkey_M3_BRANCH.zip
and
mozilla-win32-SeaMonkey_M3_BRANCH-fullcircle.zi
Anyone know the difference? I unzipped the "fullcircle" version, and it's exceptionally slow. Should I copy all DLLs to
I'd be interested to know its memory requirements. Does it eat 11MB of RAM just to display a simple page, like NN?
It's no IE 5 yet, but holy cow ... only 3mb!!
Right now, I am using it to type this response.
Unfortunately (like any alpha and Microsoft product),
it has its share of bugs. Most notable is what's
happening to me now... i am typing this in a
textbox, but it will not wordwrap like in other
versions (that explains why this post takes up only
half of a column -- had to do manual carriage returns).
Also, it's a little jerky when scrolling.
But wow -- all this in 3mb, and it doesn't look
half-bad -- i agree though --- REPLACE THE 'N'
LOGO!!
Out.
so which one has more bloat?
When I tried this last night the gzipped file for linux was corrupt. From the date on the file in the ftp site it doesn't look like it has changed. Anyone else have
any better luck?
No, didn't say the above, I'm just trying to stay above minimum threshold, because EVERYTHING I SAY IS BEING AXED. 'OPEN,' MY ASS, YOU GUYS ARE OVER THE EDGE INTO COMMIE LAND.
Hrm... Yup, there it is. I missed that.
I wasn't attacking it, I just had never heard him referred to as Dr. RMS before...
I still use 1.0
Perhaps it is becuase not everyone uses kde.
not to bash kde =-)
Apparently it works on Windoze, but is the gzip -d still reported unexpected end of file in the Linux version ???
Konquerer is nice, but unfortunately it :
1. is unable to authenticate
2. does not support https:
3. no support for js/java
4. probably is unaware of CSS
What would you like to see pictures of? My editing
didn't do much - just move a few buttons around. But
I can't wait to build a Slashdot drop down list
right into the GUI....
Matts (using M3 - hence no cookie, hence no login).
because of debug...
because debug is on?
While I agree that Opera is a nice browser, it still hasn't been ported to anything but Windows. Maybe the mass market doesn't care (then again, the mass market doesn't use Opera either, because it didn't come free with their computer), but the average /. reader doesn't have a whole lot of use for Windows-only products. By the time Opera is widely ported, Mozilla 5 should be out of beta and (due to the Bazaar effect) pulling away from everything else in functionality.
Well, Winsock proxy ?
Install the winsock proxy client on you machine...
Then your system wont notice that your behind a proxy (that is, telnet ftp etc works whitout any configs..)
Myrridin
I downloaded and compilled m3 expecting to see much improved perforamance after reading all the hype. What I got was the exact oppositte ./apprunner
/., 1 on freshmeat, and one on cnn. It also has the mail window open.
/., 1 on freshmeat, and one on cnn.
[d@zp d]$ ps waux |grep app
bleh 30907 32.5 21.3 23168 20396 p2 S 12:05 1:12
[d@zp d]$ ps waux |grep netsc
bleh 29997 1.1 30.0 72672 28664 ? S 15:59 13:53 netscape
bleh 29998 0.0 1.7 14812 1692 ? S 15:59 0:00 (netscape)
[d@zp d]$
Mozilla takes 32% of the cpu just displaying hte page, no scrolling or nothing, 3've had 0 TIMES more than 4.51's 1.1%. The memory difference mostly liek derives from the fact that I've had 4.51 open for two days.
4.51 has 4 browswer windows open, 2 on
mozilla has 3 browswer windows open, 1 on
MOZILLA HAS A LONG LONG LONG WAY TO GO!
The numbers don't lie...
Hi!
I've just downloaded the M3-release, unpacked it and wanted to run ist (apprunner), but it says that it could find the following libraries (libnsappshell.so).
Is this tarball just for libc5 or for glibc2?
bob
Hi!
;-)
Sorry! The libraries are in the same director, but fisrt I couldn't find them
bob
When I go to ftp.mozilla.org I get this error: /.
"Netscape is unable to find the file or directory named
Check the name and try again.
[OK]"
type '../package/apprunner http://www.yahoo.com'
;)
after loading pge type 'acid box test' and click
'search' button. It core dumps immediately.
note that if you run apprunner without providing
url first it may/may not core dump.
try it yourself
AC
P.S. the slowness due to debug code imho and release will be kick-ass!
#1 - Opera is platform-limited.
#2 - Even if Opera is later ported: I will not
use it in fear of them "going back to their
roots." Been burned too many times by
Ms-Windoze-centric companies to fall for
*that* one again!
An honorary doctorate and $1.50 will get you a
cup of coffee at Starbucks.
Regards,
Someone who got one the old-fashioned way
no ftp support either (last time I checked)
kde browser is cool it seems to do a better job of getting the colours right (not like netscape....) and the buttons for forms and everytihng look better......
Well it runs on a much more stable
Operating system when winNT is involved
so.
http://www.noctem.net/netscaped/
SunSITE NE is certainly not slashdotted -- that cannot be said for the bandwidth getting you there -- I'm connecting from a British Uni, via the 600Mbs SuperJANET -- and there is no sign of SunSITE NE being affected. Downloading took about 5-10 seconds.
Hi!
I am writing this message under mozilla m3 and it's workingpretty well but if I want to start the messenger (tasks-messenger) only a white, empty window appears and that's all.
A real doctorate and $1.50 will get you a lousy cup of coffee from Starbucks. I should know, I've tried to cash mine in.
You said bash. :)
kissing Faculty ass was the primary destinction between Masters students and PhD students when I was in school; PhD students had to kiss more of it to get thier next degree than the Masters students did. If an PhD is given w/o all of the ass kissing, perhaps it means more :)
Javascript configurability and XML layout is the way to go -- give it 1 years improvement in computer power, and you've lost the slow down.
Look at the title of that roadmap page, it calls itself a Microsoft project!! This is mondo weirdo.
Where is my about:mozilla ? What could be more important than that?
The JANET link to the US is currently 155Mbit/s with another 155Mbit/s link scheduled to go online 'real soon now'. Most of 'academic' Europe is connected by TEN-155, which (as you can probably guess) also operates at 155Mbit/s.
Cheers.
Nick.
They are porting Opera to Linux. Go to http://www.operasoftware.com/news.html#linux to find out more. Apparently, Troll Tech is porting it...
Yeah I'm sticking with 4.51 until Mozilla has this very important feature. After all, it is called Mozilla!
Netscape will ocassionally gunzip a downloaded file without actually removing the ".gz" extention. Trying renaming and just untaring the archive.
sux! 17'Z |\|07 31337 3NUFF!!!
so, in other words, Gecko is a step back for the web developers but a step forward for the open source "good old boy network"?
Gecko renders pages like crap. I can't wait to see the abandonment it will face as soon as it's finished... countless organizations forced to rebuild their pages to conform to some elitest minority of unix wackos who manages to single handedly take the web page back to 1.0 spec.
Nobody will use a browser that renders pages so they look horrible.
...Javascript?
;-)
Actually I was very positively surprised to notice, actually one of your points is not true. You wrote:
1. is unable to authenticate Actually, it can. I played around with it one night after my NS 4.51 crashed (again) during editing of very important document (no, not with communicator's HTML editor, but rather Midgard).
What I found out was that it can indeed authenticate. You just have to write the url in form:
http://login:password@host.domain.com
This doesn't work quite as well as I would like it to, but at least it doesn't crash as often as Netscape does. I just hope we get either Mozilla or Opera soon! ;-)
Rather I would say it was done with
Microsoft Project.
But yes, a strange world, indeed.
Used the Pre M3 release and it worked fine. The full circle one is very slow.
How come everyone claims it's fast? I had opposite experience, it was very slow. It took forever to display it's own test pages and was very slow when displaying slashdot.
(I'm not complaining tough, it's still early alpha software.)
export LD_PRELOAD={socks lib path}/lipsocks5_sh.so ; export SOCKS_SERVER=your_socks_server
Then run apprunner. Works great.
I would attend the talk in a second if it wasnt
for the fact that I have to hand my final year
project in on wednesday.
I have sent the info to the departnebt secutary
so hopefully a few memebr of the CS dept. at
KCL will turn up.
I was just going to give that same reply. I use Konqueror for my everyday browsing, but after loading a few pages it starts making X hog up memory, it's at 23Mb right now (starting from ~10).
What I like about Koqueror is that the back button really just goes back, w/o reloading that whole advertising stuff so It's really fast compared to netscape.
Starts out thin and good looking, then turns into a fat bloated hog, then gets thin and good looking again.
Anyone know what happened to that cross-platform
widget set they were talking about a while back?
Have they dropped the idea entirely, or is it just
not ready for this release?
libjpeg.so.62 => not found
libstdc++.so.2.8 => not found
Doesn't work on Caldera OpenLinux 1.3, at least. I'm sure that with enough poking around on the net, I could find those libs, download, and install them. Sigh. Maybe later.
I'm involved with the networking in doc.ic.ac.uk
and can definitely say the load on sunsite is
not a problem - its that the connection to
the London academic MAN is limited to stop
it flooding the MAN with traffic (as nearly
happened recently when debian 2.1 was released).
Internal testing shows its quite happy throwing
out full gigabit NICs, if only we could connect
them to somewhere with that large a pipe....
i agree though --- REPLACE THE 'N
No way! I've missed that thing ever since I upgraded to 2.0!
BTW, If anyone knows where I can get my hands on version 1 for linux, please let me know.
Nocturnus
gtk+ themes would look gawd awfull for mozilla.
why make jokes about Mickey?
(Robotech_Master here...for some reason, Slashdot won't let me log in with the new Mozilla. Odd.)
Well, I'm on the Win32 version of it, and I'm impressed, but it doesn't look like it's ready to become my primary browser yet.
I can't open the Preferences screen.
I can't collapse the "personal bookmarks" toolbar.
I can't maximize it to make the most of my viewing area, because the lower 1/4 or so of the window, below the blue bottom toolbar, just goes gray.
None of the options on that bottom toolbar seem to work, anyway.
I am impressed by how fast it loads pages, and I'll probably DL the SRPM overnight and give it a shot on my RH5.2 box at home...if it crashes less than NS4.5, that'll be a victory of sorts... but so far, it's Not Quite Ready For Prime-Time.
But it's looking promising!
Thank heavens there are still intelligent web developers out there. It was not hard to see our present situation developing way back in 1995. Irreparable harm has been done to Internet standards, most of all HTML, and both Netscape and Microsoft must share the blame -- Netscape for starting the downward spiral and Microsoft for making it worse. What a breath of fresh air to see a Netscape derivative finally taking a step forwards instead of backwards.
Hurrah!
The case study we now have in the development of HTML should make it clear to anyone that intelligent standards do not grow well in the dog-eat-dog world of large corporations. Microsoft is not the only offender in this regard... (just my favorite one to pick on!)
Mark
how do you actually get the thing to run to the point that you can critisize it or praise it? I have gotten Win32::Version but I am unable to run it how would I do that?
No, it's really corrupt. How silly.
The menubar keeps appearing on the bottom of the Window!! This is with gtk+ 1.2.0, any ideas?
They all used to get hotmail addresses and think that somehow nobody would know. Hey, Microsoft lackeys, buy a linux distro, read the source; It'll come in hand at your next job.
There are two executable files. All platforms have apprunner[.exe/app/bin/whatever], which is the full Seamonkey. This includes the toolbars, mail client (or what there is of it), status bar, etc. Most platforms also have viewer (a.k.a. Raptor), which is the NGLayout component wrapped in a simple interface. I'd recommend first trying viewer, and, if that looks okay, try apprunner.
Okay ... it looks ugly (at best) and it needs more memory than Netscape already ...
Hehe yeah I am really impressed by
Well it crashes all the time, slow as heck,
5% of UNIX gurus manage to install it.
But like it really conforms to XML
stanards that MS helped write, but like
that funtionallity is hidden so far.
So like take my word for it cuz
I am really smart.
I like Linux I am soo smart
I dont even have to think
I've seen dramatic increases in speed from a little
profiling/code-tuning. The speed will come,
just concentrate on stability and a good clean
design. I'm running on M$98 and its a little slow
but stable sofar (Atleast for the last 30min)
Congratulations on reaching the M3 milestone.
I think I'm finally gonna try to help...
Does anybody know if it ok/legal to use a WATCOM
comiler on this. I've been impressed in the past
by their optimization,
it's a proprietary tool or some other reason?
hehe this is intresting
Like all you linux fanatics
seem to think that even though
it uses more memory than any other browser
crashes all the time, most function doesnt work,
and its basicaly all crap, even worse than when
Netscape controlled it fully, then
since its not made by MS its really kewl.
Get a life. Is all I can say.
IE5 kicks Mozillas butt anyday
Kinda hurts doesnt it
You mean Halloween Nightmare?
How can you design to a standard if one browser which has a significant market share, Internet Explorer, doesn't fully support the standard (which is bullshit FUD BTW)?
Illogical.
I was broke last night but now it is fixed !!!
It works !!!!!!!!!!!!
Screenshots are here...
http://nivda.machine.cx
E+clean theme (0.15 release)
GMC
gnome-terminal
[gnome 1.0.3]
debian potato 2.2
mozilla M3 - from binary tar ball (slashdot works fine)
and i'm running mozilla under windowmaker with no problems =-)
VERY case sensitive...
Is there any other kind of case sensitive?
Use fortify.. 128-bit...
in debian.. type apt-get install fortify
-- only opensource does it right --
Hey, AOL, give us back Andressen. This thing really needs some work!
Did you know about:mozilla works in ie5?
Using the M3 pre-alpha right now on Linux. Rendered slashdot just fine (NS 4.5 on my box has problems with slashdot). I can't wait for Mozilla 5.0. Looks like this is going to be one kick ass browser.
Snoop
ps. I heard someone complaining about huge download. There are some -devel- vesions on the site that are larger just don't get those.And it wraps the text just fine in this message box at least for me.
KFM has been able to both authenticate and use ftp since pre-1.0.
Quit spreading FUD about applications you know nothing about.
I'm using the latest "SeaMonkey" release right now.
Fresh install on 'Doze.
Observations:
1. Looks pretty, but what does it do better than
Netscape 4? Slow as molasses to update display,
jerky scrolling. Almost unusable. I've checked
several sites with different layouts to make sure.
The only improvement in performance seems to be that
pages aren't reloaded when main the window is
resized. The beginning stages or primate intelligence,
perhaps.
2. Seems very stable. At least it hasn't gone under
within the first hour of use. That's the problem. If this
grarbage scow would just quiety go down to Davey
Jones' Locker I wouldn't have to wait 30 seconds for
the window to close after issuing the order. Who's captain
of this ship, anyway?
3. I'm not eager to install the Linux version. The
binary and support files are almost 3 times the
size of the Doze version, but will give it a try.
Well, time to put this cpu-staller away and get out a *real*
browser for WinDoze so I can read you all's comments
about this wonderful new product.
I got a feeling it's putting a strain on my video
card as well (ughh!) moving this Plain Old Text around
in this edit widget, like a pixel weighs a ton.
Don't send a monkey to do a man's job.
Everything compiled like a charm, it was the third time that I compile it and I was really impressed with what was done. Freshmeat.net renders perfectly, altough slashdot has a small problem with the text on the left side, and the buttons of the poll are kind of fscked up.. but who cares, I found it very fast, and the Gtk-themes work. *grin*
Could someone provide us with a more complete list of mirrors? Hey, even a clue as to where such a list exists would be fine. Seems lame of us to be hammering the hell out of one site, and, more importantly, I can't download because of the number of users already on.
Mind the Gap
The browser needs work, everyone knows that..
Well, according to mozilla.org you need MSVC 5.0 or newer and Windows NT 3.51 or newer to build Mozilla for Win32s. So if you were able to somehow get it to build on a Watcom compiler I'm fairly sure that there wouldn't be a problem in that regard.
-SegFault
Try using WordPerfect 8 for Linux (free in cost).
Try compiling your own. If you're still having trouble, profile it and find out just where all the time's being spent -- it's probably in one place.
Anyhow, that most certainly shouldn't be happening.
Posted by !ErrorBookmarkNotDefined:
I think they meant "Doctor" as in "Doctor Dre". Likewise, "Grandmaster Flash" does not necessarily have a masters in flashing.
Oh, and fuck off please.
-----------------------------
Computers are useless. They can only give answers.
Posted by xomox:
If you have a socks[45] firewall, try using either runsocks (for *nix) or sockscap (Wintendo). You can obtain it from
http://www.socks.nec.com
Posted by Moritz Moeller - Herrmann:
>no ftp support either (last time I checked)
When did you last check? 1997 ?
KFM:
ftp support is working. It scrolls menu elements a bit slow and Javascript support is not complete.
It renders most sites just fine, with the exception of some buggy infoworld sites....
And it is GPL, so if you want a good HTML browser, just take the khtml libraries, don't mess with mozilla/ gecko yet.
Posted by NJViking:
The FUll-Circle win32 version is super unstable. I get a Dr. Watson error every time I try to run it.
When I get home I will try it on the REAL OS.
-= NJV =-
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
Toast the Win95 partition.
I tried to find docs on mozilla.org to read what milestone 3 is, and what it will take to reach milestone 4, but the information isn't on the development roadmap. Does anybody have a link to a current description?
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
They're redoing (almost?) everything from scratch. They stuff that's there is excellent, but it'll be a while yet before it's all there.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
Now if they could just post a version of 4.51 for
glibc
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
Given that neither IE5 nor Communicator 4.5 can pass a standards test, it's about time a browser was made to adhere to the standards. That's why they're there in the first place! It isn't really a step back for web developers. They will finally be able to design their pages according to the true standards (i.e. those that have been approved by W3C) and not have to screw around with this or that browser's little eccentricities.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
I assume you submitted these bugs to mozilla.org, right? :)
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Every time I click on something in Gecko, my walkie-talkie goes staticy on me.
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
Viewer works much nicer.
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
Then, the fact that IE5 can't even properly render plain HTML is going to hurt.
But, oooo, this is something that we would never normally see, now isn't it. We have the release that would normally only be used inside Netscape. Gee....
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
Microsoft says that IE is the most standards-compliant browser. They say that nothing renders more to the standards than IE.
Now, shit for brains, do you get to play with pre-alpha copies of IE5? Did you compare NS 4.51 to the pre-alpha copy of IE5? No, of course not. Gee, that would be terrible to do because it would disadvantage IE.
No, I don't look at the code. I've never even compiled it. What Open Source means is that users who chose to can submit bug reports to get things fixed faster with more liklihood of them actually getting fixed.
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
I guess that had to go when MCOM disappeared -- didn't the logo have a big `M' on one of the panels? I'd have to agree though: apart from the purply colours it was a great spinner. In fact, that must be where the name `spinner' comes from: none of the other logos exactly spin, do they?
wavy lines of reminiscence
Ah, the good old days -- who remembers mcom.com now..? There's a web site somewhere with a large collection of old Netscrapes: I occasionally spark up one of the old ones to check pages look OK. Hey, and that's an interface widget I miss -- what about the button you could press to load images? That's come in very handy when I'm on the dialup.
--
W.A.S.T.E.
W.A.S.T.E.
That little "N" logo is mesmerizing. I've been watching it for a few minutes straight and I think I'm going to hurl!
Most of the functionality is hidden at this point - or not even finished. However at least Mozilla passes the basic CSS and DOM and XML tests, unlike IE5...
.xul files in res/samples - these define the entire GUI for the app. I did some playing around here and had the other web guys drooling...
Bah - IE5 can't even do XML right, and MS helped write the spec...
For those interested in the cool stuff in M3 - try editing the
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
I copied *.js and proxy.cfg from my old netscape settings to the public/bin dir. That was NT though - don't know about Linux.
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
(Back in Netscape now - Mozilla doesn't like resizing too much :))
It was really just the simple ability to build applications with full functionality with some simple lines of XML. Like a toolbar is defined using <toolbar>...</toolbar> and the buttons in there do all the bits like auto-raise when you hover the mouse over them - no more hacking Javascript to get that to work (of course you hack JS to get the rest of the app working).
I think this is going to turn a lot of IS/IT departments on - they can have their own version of netscape with their own buttons/menus and stuff like that, even completely remove the prefs menu, or just parts of it. Customisation that goes beyond the basics that IE5 provides.
/me wipes drool from chin...
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
Well something must be seriously wrong on my NT box then:
http://slashdot.org
Viewer.exe takes 6928k mem + 4980 vmem
Apprunner.exe takes 8828k mem + 7092 vmem
netscape.exe takes about 12M + 15M
Better, but is it good enough??? I guess no matter what you do, building tree structures and displaying pages of gfx is always going to use up gobs of memory....
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
...this is for small values of "fast"?
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I didn't have problems with the Win32 Version.. I just copied all the .dll's to the \windows\system directory and all was well.. It was extremely fast in my opinion and resizeing windows was EXTREMELY better than 4.x
Brian
FullCircle is Netscape's bug reporting software.. if it crashes, it sends a bug report to netscape.
For me at least, I copied the dll's to the system dir and things went a lot faster..
Not sure though....
I know....I experienced the same thing....ya know why? they didn't strip the precompiled binaries...they're full of debugging symbols (apprunner went from 4M to 800k)....it runs alot faster (than ie NN4.5 or the unstriped version) afterwards...
The link is probably being rather saturated.
Can anyone remember the international connection speed of SuperJanet? Last I remember it was 8Mbits, but I have this vague memory of it being upped to 30-40Mb, or something.
Someone did this for me just the other day. That is, they had /. send me an email containing my password. I wonder if they know that the IP of the requesting box is sent also, and that they are not on a dynamic IP address...
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
hey test
testing this....
Huh? There is a core for Mozilla, what do you think new-layout was? I'm not comparing M3 to Navigator 4.5... I'm comparing M3 to builds from a few weeks ago. It certainly is backtracking if something that's been working for weeks or months isn't after a codefreeze.
:)
Given the constraints of HTML tables (setting borders to 0, cellspacing to 0 and cellpadding to 0), the interior size of the table should match the exterior size.
It seems whats changed in Mozilla, after some other testing, is settings on tables are no longer inhereted from tables they might be within. Up until now (and this might be a bug in Mozilla, I'm not sure...) nested tables (or for that matter any nested tags) took on as defaults the setting from the element they're nested within. Setting "cellspacing=0" on a table passed that setting onto tables it contains. Same with font tags, or other tags.
Only some settings on elements seems to be inhereted... border, for example, seems to be inhereted, but cellspacing and cellpadding don't. Or at least don't consistantly get inherited.
Adding them manually to the table fixes the problem. I looked that the HTML spec, and its not really clear IMHO on this issue.
Maybe I'll submit this as a bug at the risk of looking dumb when its not.
Sorry, this seems to be a step back. Sure, the browsing window has some (ugly, nonfunctioning) UI elements wrapped around it, but the core of the browser -- the renderer -- seems to have taken a significant step back. The nightly build from mid-february I was running layed out most pages I looked at fairly well, 90% of the time they were correct as far as I can see. Now half the sites that worked before no longer lay out properly.
:) Unfortunately it blows core when I try to open the console window, so I can't see exactly whats not working...
Some things I've noticed that are broken now:
Tables inside of tables where the width of the inside table is the same as the width of the cell its in -- no longer fit. The inside table for whatever reason starts to wrap cells. Very strange...
Frames. (I can't honestly remember if the other one had frame support at all, but I get a lot of frame content showing up in the wrong frame...)
Although it *says* its got editor support built into it, the editor doesn't work at all. That's a step back. Opening editor pages just opens up new browser windows (which cause it to blow core when you close them...)
Javascript -- working just enough not to work.
The widgets... I thought this was GTK? What version of GTK is it using? Themes don't work -- and the widgets themselves don't look like any of the GTK ones I've got installed. Where's it getting them from? Either way, I get toolbars showing up in the scrollbars, although once a page is loaded they usually go away.
Resizing the window doesn't work...
Forms don't seem to work, whereas they did before.
I couldn't get any background images to display. Some JPG's were not displaying either, and the ones that don't display seem to badly mess up table rendering. (IE, a 200 pixel wide image aligned left in a table cell with text around it will push the table 200 pixels wider...)
Of course, most of the people getting all worked up about the release think "M3" is some official release or something, its just a development milestone. No promise or guarantee it'd be better than what was there before, its just a point to freeze the code and take stock on whats done and what needs to be done.
I'm just suprised that the core of it seems to have backtracked so far...
Had you read the whole article you'd have seen that "in 1996 [he was awarded] an honorary doctorate from the Royal Institute of Technology in Sweden."
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
Before anyone flames me, I don't have enough disk space to upgrade to glibc2, or to compile Mozilla from source. So I'm screwed, basically.
fish and pipes
Oh yeah, why didn't I think of that? But I don't think my sister, who's doing her dissertation in Word, would appreciate it.
fish and pipes
Anyone have any luck with running it on NT 4? I get a window frame and that's all. No title in the title bar and no refreshing content (the window contains a snapshot of what was there before).
It is definately an improvement. There is some new irritating sluggishness which makes me feel like I'm working with a Java applet or something, but I can hope for all that to dissapear in the final release. I like the "Translate" button and some of the implied features.. some very very neat (old and unoriginal, but neat) ideas. IE5 still beats it for redrawing speed on win32, just turn on full window dragging and start moving some corners to see how fast it can keep up. IE is so smooth that it is fun to watch lines wrap. So far Commmunicator 5, is a flickering sluggish pain, but it keeps everything infront of your eyes and readable. Which is more than I can say for Communicator 4. I hope the final is faster, but it meets my minimum requirements: I won't be afraid of touching the border of my browser and waiting five seconds for a redraw. Wow, do I hate Netscape 4. Some of the new, not so visible features are very exciting. It is a good sign, I hope they get this one right.
patent stuff, I figured. they moved away from that logo when "mosaic netscape" became just netscape.
Methinks they have tied filtering in with a search bot and are dropping in to party with us. :-P
/. users just logged in as AC. The /. trolls generally can put a sarcastic twist on a message, and generally know what they are talking about.
I've never seen so many trolls. You can tell which trolls are Mickeysoft and which ones are real
The other folks think "computer literacy" is guessing which menu Microsoft has hidden the "Preferences" under (duh.. File? Edit? Options? cough... sputter.. VIEW??)
Anyone have the URL of that hacked ("cracked?") German WWII poster where they superimposed Bill Gates face on? Windows deleted it (really - crashed while resizing...)
... you don't HAVE to use GTK themes... :-D
Choice is good. It's my favorite thing about X windows... apps are not tied to the window manager or desktop...
Theming eats up RAM though. I'll stay away till I get more memory for the old PC..
Sleepy
Yes, I used to filter at 1, but then on the linux.com story, my ON-TOPIC, yet at the same time both critical and *civil* comments were deleted. Or is it more accurate to describe such a thing as "Microsofted"?0=
Other like minded comments were deleted (LOTS of "hey, where did my post go?" comments) and many more were set to -1 or -2 priority.
I'd be naive to think that moderation had anything to do with whose ad is running at the top of my web browser. Sure. Really. I'm sure "the board" of linux.com will have elections someday, too.
[cough]
"You'll have to lite it again... pipe went out"
[cough]
just a thought, but could it be the debugging info that it spews plus the assertions thoughout the code that slow it down? maybe?
US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
how are you folks reporting it's "fast"? I've just installed the rpm, and it took about 2 minutes to render a local page! slashdot loaded for about 10 before stopping altogether, and I'm on a T1 here... And thats not mentioning the graphical glitches all over the screen, especially after resizing the window. I'm running on a p200, and netscape 4.51 works just as fast as it's windows counterpart, but the only speed improvement I can see with mozilla is in loading time. I hope I'm doing something terribly wrong?
Someone want to explain why when I click the Ftp: link that I get sent to ftp-proxy.apple.com?
Is Apple hosting a bunch of stuff for them?
Reeses
The win32 version is using 450k, while NN 4.5 is using 9MB to display the same thing.
support gun control: take guns from cops
Replace it yourself, just overwrite the files in the res/throbber directory. When I first got gecko I replaced those files with my own.
- George
The Win32 version of Mozilla 5 sucks IMHO. It lacks any additional features that Netscape Navigator 4.x has, and offers very little functionability. It loads slow, and takes forever to load up pages. Im sorry to say it, but at this point IE5 has it beat hands down in speed, and usefulness.
:P
Flame on!
Email me
Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff
SB.
unzip it and run apprunner.exe
Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff
SB.
> give it 1 years improvement in computer power, and you've lost the slow down.
Your on the Windows 2000 development team aren't you?
Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff
SB.
ditto. i did try the win32 version to see what it was like though. I was impressed. I dont like the interface as it was not very nice looking but i'm sure thats more like temporary etc. it does render stuff pretty fast tho. overall i think mozilla just rocks.
just my 2 cents
-doobman
yeah thats a cool feature that opera had that i really liked. It would also be pretty sweet to have a html type footer where you could create your own hot list time bar. that would be cool ...
just a couple more cents =)
-doobman
if you are having troubles getting in try: .edu/mozilla/releases/m3
ftp://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue
--andy.
try this instead:
ftp://csociety-ftp.ecn.pu rdue.edu/pub/mozilla/releases/m3
--andy.
sure looks like it.
i'll bet they come up with a snazzy new one for release time though.
sure looks like it.
i'll bet they come up with a snazzy new one for release time though.
hmm... does it make me an old-time web surfer to have actually used netscape 0.9 before? (not to mention various versions of Mosaic...)
What's the executable called?
You don't exist. Go away. --SysVinit Halt
Umm... hello? Of course it has a long way to go yet. This isn't anything more than a pre-pre-pre-alpha release with all the debug flags turned on, nothing in the way of optimization turned on.
Have you read what this is? It's a release for the developers, so they have something usable from day to day with a max failure rate of once per hour. You do the math.
It crashed twice on me in 10 minutes (well hung, not crashed) One of the things it crashed on was the included sample #13!
The rendering also did not seem faster than 4.0 to me,
Of all the comments I've ever posted, this is definately one of them
Isn't that the Same "N" logo that Navigator 1.0 used?
Of all the comments I've ever posted, this is definately one of them
It's cool, but not very compatible with newer web standards.
Of all the comments I've ever posted, this is definately one of them
How about a 128-bit strong version for libc6?
Of all the comments I've ever posted, this is definately one of them
Wheeee!
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Even if M3 is foobar, give the 1.0 release a chance. All my experience with browser builds is that they get slow and flaky towards the end of the development cycle, and then suddenly get way better on (or after) the due date.
It's a fact of life. People hold off posting bug fixes until it looks like they are gonna miss the release. It's called schedule chicken.
No gods, no masters
ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/packages/infosystems/WWW /clients/Netscape/m ozilla-source/mozilla/releases/m3/ W W/clients/Netscape /mozilla-source/mozilla/releases/m3/
and
http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/packages/infosystems/W
We keep'em regularly updated as an official mirror so for those of you closer the North Carolina than to North Europe--Enjoy
Certified Black Helicopter Pilot *** Unwitting Dupe of One World Gov'ment
There really was no core of Mozilla. At least nothing version 5 would want to use. It was a tag-soup "parser" (gee, here's a - let's start making things bold). It's a miracle that they could tack on as much JS and CSS crap as they did. I'd imagine almost everything is being re-written, so you can't really call it backtracking.
I'd imagine the table-in-table "bugs" you're talking about make assumptions about the box-model that aren't necessarily true. (e.g., that the contained table's box is the exact size of the container)
pooptruck
I think this may depend on the implicit (well, not implicit with M3 - it's in res) UA-stylesheet. The cascade of preferences is, I believe:
I'm imagining that the HTML specs don't say that tables should inherit properties of parent tables, and M3 is interpreting this correctly, and applying the UA style to the child tables.
But I really don't know anything...
pooptruck
Opera doesn't even support 95% of CSS1.
pooptruck
...and the better option is?
pooptruck
(PRISONER reference, for those at home)
Look at the title of the Mozilla Milestone page mentioned above (and linked here)
>TITLE<Microsoft Project Exported Information>/TITLE<
Which actually raises an interesting question: are there any decent replacements for MS Project that have a minimal learning curve for people used to using it? (Trying to wean people here off of Micros~1)
--
The Internet is the Suppository of All Knowledge. You get it in the end.
Those libraries come with the nspr package. You need to download nspr and install it before building Mozilla. You can pass the parameter to the libraries location to configure.
See the building instructions at mozilla's site.
Something tells me he's not talking about DSSSL (or even XSL :-)
Gecko is the first good web browser the world has ever known.
HTML was designed from the ground up with several goals in mind, that seem to have been completely forgoten by most people over the years. The whole basis was to separate structure from style enabling a document to be viewed on any system. XML finall takes this concept to it's conclusion in a manageable fashion. HTML was about using structural tags such as H1 rather than hard coded font tags, because a heading will look much different on an 1600x1200 monitor than it will a cell phone.
So with the growth of the web you get a billion traditional media people designing web pages, that have no concept what the word _dynamic_ means, all writing pages that _must_ be viewed at 800x600, because they only know how to create pages for fixed paper mediums, and because they never bothered to actually learn what HTML was about. How many web designers even know what SGML is let along understand that HTML is an application of it? Admitedly, this only includes about 99.99% of the web designers out there. Traditionally the browser makers have been just as bad. It seems Netscape has finally got a clue. Netscape was the pioneer in adding proprietary style based tags to HTML, if they get Gecko right, which they are, I may actually forgive them, even though thanks in part to them, the whole web is a mess.
So now, x years later, everyone finally learns HTML and runs across all these problems in browser compatibility and site management, and they start looking for a solution, can you say "What's a style sheet?". They discover that style sheets were supposed to be part of the web since day one, and that in fact they are much cooler than all the proprietary hacks they have been clamoring for from the browser makers. The sad thing being, even those web designers that knew about the One True Way from the beginning have not been able to do anything about it due to lack of browser support.
Enter Gecko, the first web browser to actually give a web designers the ability to design a page the way it was meant to be. Gecko is not about small. Gecko is not about fast. Gecko is about HTML, CSS, XML, and DOM. Gecko is actually including a real parser (Expat) for the first time. We should have been able to use SGML features for years now, if browser makers had actually done it right and included SGML parsers. Gecko is including real DOM support, so now we can write JavaScript that may actually work in more than one place, and not only that, but that does a hell of a lot more for creating dynamic content. Gecko includes XML support, the most important document format since ASCII, finally giving the world a standard for creating documents with actual structure, and a way for bringing those to the masses. Gecko includes full CSS1 and a good chunk of CSS2, so my documents can actually look clean for a change, and be 1/5 the size at the same time.
People who make comments how all the web pages don't load any faster, and how IE has better bookmarks or something like that, these people have obviously never tried any serious HTML work, browser programming, or managing a _large_ site. Gecko is not for the users, they will look at it and ask what it gives them over version 4. Gecko is for the designers, who will bow down at it's feet screaming FINALLY, and will now be able to die (mostly) happy. And for that, Gecko is the best piece of software to hit the web, _ever_.
While you're at it try the web browser built into kfm! While I don't use KDE, I love their web browser (Konquerer?)! Who needs netscape???
I am running kfm in WindowMaker with no problems...
Actually I'm not sure what it was but my password it self worked like always I just couldn't login last time I tried. One thing was I was trying with mozilla might not have liked it somewhat
'Scuse me if you have tried this, but from the user page you can request that slashdot send you the password to the email you signed up with.
-Redwraith
It makes a good light weight browser. It doesn't render most sites correctly, but if I just need something to startup and view a page quickly it's great.
-matt
Would you have any screenshots? That would be cool.
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
Whatever it was that had the other web guys drooling, of course. :-)
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
I've still got a floppy with NS 0.7 on it (for windows 3.x). That was one with the rotating mobile-type thing for an animation. That was the best animation that NS ever had. Don't kow why they ditched that for the pulsing N.
Excuse me, but shouldn't you be reporting this to mozilla.org(possibly straight into BugZilla?), so that they can fix this bug, rather than reporting it to /. readers, who if they really want to know all the current bugs in Mozilla can go read the bug database at Mozilla? -- Kevin
--LeBleu
If you're reading this you're part of the mass hallucination that is Kevin the Blue.
Anyway ... just lately I've noticed that I had to specify cellpadding & spacing to 0 even on a table that's inside a pad/space=0 table. I agree, the table spec isn't clear on this too - and the answer varies according to who you ask. Time to figure out what is, isn't, should be and shouldn't be... I may need to get the author of Voyager (An Amiga web browser, folks) to change it.
I don't think that it's a huge major problem or anything though... I suppose it makes us all a lot more specific really with our table definitions :)
Oh yeah .... my first post. Yay. :)
According to top, it takes Netscape 4.5 26.6% of my Mem to display this page I'm typing on (out of 128MB; wow, that's inefficient). It said Seamonkey was taking 10.5% to do the same thing. And that's with a statically-linked binary. I'm also running GNOME, so it would help if I had compiled it. Oh well. A 2-fold improvement is enough for now.
I gave it a try in passing. NT4 SP3 here at work. It renders /. well, but locked up when I tried to login.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Interesting, there seems to be a readable 360K core file in the root directory of ftp.mozilla.org...
This is PRE-Alpha. I don't think it's quite fair to be comparing it to released programs at this point. Also, it's not about feature count. One of the highlights of this browser (From what I've heard, at least) is that it is NOT going to be an 80 MB bloatware web browser..... If you like having browsers that are bigger than entire OS's, enjoy. As for me, I'm eagerly awaiting Netscape 5.0.....
Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and slowly back away. -Rob Malda
On the win32 version, it's apprunner.exe. I'd presume on the other versions it'd be some variation of Apprunner, but that would be rather presumptious of me. =)
Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and slowly back away. -Rob Malda
The passwords are VERY case sensitive. Once you log on, you can go to your own account/preferences page and change it to something easier to type.
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
This pre-release is for the rendering engine, [code named Gecko], not the bells and whistles version many of us are working toward or hoping for. So of course IE5 (and even NN 4.51) are presently 'better' in terms of functionality.
However, I would suggest that before you say that it sucks, try running IE 5 for Linux. Or IE 5 for any SA-110 platform. Or IE-5 for -- get the point?
Mozilla is about the Internet programming community developing a top-notch browser, etc. for B>any platform. Including Win32s.
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
Can't use kfm much on KDE 1.1. It seems to cause the X server (not kfm itself) to leak memory. Besides, it is hard to figure out where to get the latest kfm without going through the CVS + rebuild routine. Regular RPMing of updates would be nice.
Chris
I stopped reading AC posts a while back by setting my threshold to one. Yes, you miss some interesting posts, but you also save a lot of time, and you also filter out a very high percentage of the posts that are pure garbage.
One thing that jumped out at me right away was the change in tone: suddenly the posts seemed much more rational. Best of all, when the trolls rear their ugly heads, they usually don't cross the threshold.
libstdc++.so.2.8: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Why in God's name wqould you link to a specific vrsion number of libary like that?!?!?!? -- Unless you _want_ to break all forward and backward compatibility. THe boys at ID Software are equally guilty of this as well.
A much better way to do it would be to link to libstdc++.so -- that's what the symlinks on a standard Linux system are there for -- then write a REQUIREMENTS file containing the following:
This program packages requires the following shared libraries (or later except there noted):
libc.so.6 (Glibc version 2.0.4 or later)
libjpeg.so.61
PLEASE check these version numbers before asking for help if strange things are happening!
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
Someday we'll exact revenge on the ones who perpetrated the war on standards in the first place.
In other news, astrophysicists have announced that they now know what all that dark matter is: it's stupidity.
CSS1 isn't worth supporting.
In other news, astrophysicists have announced that they now know what all that dark matter is: it's stupidity.
Havn't seen any problems...I ran a Feb. binary on my Win95 box here at work (HP Vectra, PII233, 32 megs), and it was _slightly_ faster than the final IE 5 that I downloaded.
Picked up the new one today, so I havn't done any speed tests, formal or informal, yet. I have noticed that the interface seems to be more busy, but it's also highly configurable, so I'm not sweating that too much!
For those having speed troubles -- are you running Win98? Just an innocent guess...(pulls on abestos undies)
For the crashing guy -- it's warned that this is, indeed, not even a beta release. No promises. Heck, you should read the warnings that come with the nightly builds if you want a scare....
For those who prefer and support IE5 -- variety is wonderful. That's what all the Mozilla and Linux stuff is, for some people, really about, the freedom of choice. I personally use IE just to render the MS site, and when Netscape is showing it's buggy side -- maybe twice a week.
I personally think it's going to rock, but I'm also aware of how much is aganist it. It's not the moon, just a piece of software.
The fixed version is apperantly on the ftp site. I recommed ftp'ing directly to the site, as the links from the http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/release- notes/ page don't seem to work. Try ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/releases/m3/mozi lla-i686-pc-linux-gnu-Se aMonkey_M3_BRANCH.tar.gz to get the Linux version. Of course, it's a little tough to get to, right now...
When I tried this last night the gzipped file for linux was corrupt. From the date on the file in the ftp site it doesn't look like it has changed. Anyone else have any better luck?
Looks nice and crisp but I think I'll stick with Opera. It's fast, quick to install and very compact. Have a look:
http://www.operasoftware.com/
witold.org
Seems to work ok on NT 3.51. Can't find anywhere to configure the proxy tho' which means I can't get past our firewall.
This is going to be a very nice browser tho'.
Actually, I hope that one of the "tricks" Mozilla will borrow from IE 4.0/5.0 is the ability of the interface to disappear. Then you get "nothing but page". That's especially useful when utilizing a laptop or small monitor
Doobie doobie dooo....
Does this mean that we should refer to him as DrRMS? How about GNU/DrRMS? :)
I'm sure "SlashdotMedia" will improve on all the wonders that Dice Holdings blessed us all with
There is an option to use from the Debug menu, when you run viewer.
http://www.mozilla.org/mirrors.html
--
--
Jason Eric Pierce
Can't wait until this thing is final and stable (not saying that this release won't be stable, but...). Still gonna download it and check it however.
mine was broken too
compiling doesnt work for me, ./configure complains about
...
Could not find the following nspr libraries or could not run sample program: -lnspr21 -lplc21 -lplds21
using RedHat5.2 and gtk1.2
installing the tarball also doesnt work, cos i just dont know which arguments nsinstall espects
--
--
Beer is best!
--
--
Beer is best!
This'll be the first time I've met RMS or heard him in person. It'll be interesting even though there'll be a lot I don't quite agree with.
--
--
Beer is best!
ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/libraries/
I got mine from the source directory so can't say if the RPMs work.
--
--
Beer is best!
I compiled it myself and had no problems, if you used the binaries then perhaps try grabbing the source.
BTW read the README files before compiling. You need to get and install the NSPR libraries for it to compile.
--
--
Beer is best!
Try this
So, anyone have screenshots of it yet? maybe using themes ? :D
-- four
http://shrub.net/~four/images /screenshots/mozilla.jpg
well, it doesn't look that nice with themes, cause they hardcoded the buttons.. but here it is
took me 2 hours to compile (233mhz) and it crashed when i tried to access slashdot..doesn't look too good on my 800x600 screen.. I'll be sticking with 4.51 for a while yet.
-- four
yeah until you try to display a page
I guess Mozilla might actually not crash.
If you want to read it fire up IE5.
heh I know you probably like to read standards
and maybe you like found one point IE5
doesnt do right, but guess what 99%
dont care.
Just like it was with Netscape when they first
messed up the standards. but oh I guess you have
forgotten and forgiven since oh you think they
are kewl, since oh you get to use
even more alpha software, even more broken
browser than ever before, but since you might
look at its crappy code it doesnt matter.