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Kipling: Be careful what you wish for.
Zab gave us the the story about the latest fun over at Kipling. Kipling acknowledged being cracked, but I don't think they quite knew what they were asking for. Probably having Mooby share the password, and having their site down for a few days wasn't quite the plan. But they did get their publicity, I s'pose. Check out the work at Kipling.
First few lines:
Having baited crackers with a "hacking"
competition to win a backpack, a retailer's site has
been hacked for real.
I was thinking for a second that this was finally going to be an article that kept people happy with it's use of the terms 'crack' and 'hack', but unfortunately they had to keep writing.
Cracking (at least when done technically, otherwise I'm not sure) is a special case
of hacking, so saying `hacker' when referring
to a `cracker' is correct, but not the other way around
(unless the hacker is indeed a cracker, of course).
If you know the difference, rhen it's OK. But
unfortunately this people are clueless.
Still, I prefer just the term `hacker' for intruders. `Cracking' is THE word for
software piracy.
And so, an intruder who is just curious is not
bad, he's just a `hacker'.
Down for a couple of days? Geez - you'd think that if you were gonna call upon the wrath of the underworld, um, underground, you'd at least be keeping, say, *hourly* backups. Dorks.
They got what they deserved....stupid posers...I'd bewing to make a bet that their
site doesn't stay up for long anymore...LOL
view source, you will see that they are counting how many hits they are getting on the "Hacked"
site
http://www.planetinternet.be/pistat/cgi-bin/sit
whether they have been cracked or not the site has no evidence of it.
Well, someone needs to crack them for real, then. Anyone with the password -can- go out there and rm their ass.
Any takers? Maybe -then- they'll appreciate what cracking is all about.
Whippits! Bring 'em on!
"to accomplish a goal through lazy and or unconventional means." is a kludge.
Hacks can be kludgey, but a kludge is not nessicarily a hack. Sometimes a kludge is just a kludge.
Grok it?
It's pretty obvious to me that this IS another publicity stunt, and I'm disappointed that there is only one small thread dedicated to the topic. I mean, look at the $#@! html source (though modified because of some screwwy slashdot qwerks):
s itestat.gif?name=shopping.pageview.kipli ng.html
img src="http://www.planetinternet.be/pistat/cgi-bin/
" width="0" height="0" alt align="left">
If they really cracked the damn thing I would really doubt they would leave a cgi link which could log howmany sites have viewed the page etc, unless this belgum server allows people to contribute stuff etc anonymously (or www.planetinternet.be themselves have been cracked which would make this rather interesting)... you just wouldn't leave behind anything to follow unless you actually wanted somebody to follow it.
Even without analyzing the html, you have no k3w1 741k, no lamentation about how somebody got screwwed up the ass by some government or corperate entity, no p0rn, no foreign language (or native depending on where you are): nothing.
hrm.. www.planetinternet.be just looks like another 'zine. considering how kipling is also belgium, it's not to conceive somebody at kipling had some friends at www.planetinternet.be
And who would do that, link to an "offsite" /.]
graphic, and not even [method deletia since
they are obviously tracking
take credit for owning these wannabe's site?
It must be a hoax, no question about it.
TLTL
Did you know that "data" is plural and "datum" is singular? Did you know that if you use "data" as a singular noun outside North America people will gaze at you sadly and shake their heads?
But who cares, right? They're a bunch of weirdos who don't pack the gear to make it in your own beloved group, right?
There you go! Hence, cracker=hacker.
(Assembly is a poor substitute for knowing real opcodes, all right, so keep your dismissive statements in your hope chest.)
Got a free clue for you: "gay" *still* means (roughly) "happy."
"Hacker" != "cracker", no matter how many clueless twits abuse the
words. Nor how many times. How does that saying go: "if a million
people say a stupid thing, it's still a stupid thing", or such-
like?
You can go right on ahead and use "hacker" in place of "cracker."
But when people who know the difference start treating you like a
clueless luser, don't wonder why.
And I *suspect* that with as much negative geek-feedback as has been
published about this issue, no self-respecting geek or hacker, or
even a wannabe, will be caught dead with a Kipling product.
How else could a luggage company get its target
audience's press (ZDnet for example) running
stories about itself?
The marketing is working. What percentage of
us recognized Kipling as a brand name, let alone
a specific product line (Hacker).
BIG HEAPING HANDFULLS of offense to Kipling. They're some of the most retarded people to come along in a long time, and this just proves it. To hell with 'em all!
So YOU'RE one of the ones to blame for ruining ;)
a culture.
I was very honestly floored by the gulibility of a LOT of the people who have posted so far. I mean, I know a lot of Slashdot readers are morons, but this example takes the cake. :(
Go for it! (Please forgive the DOS prompt)
C:\>ftp www.kipling.com
Connected to www.kipling.com.
220 ProFTPD 1.2.0pre1 Server (Planet Internet Hosting FTP Server) [hosting.planetinternet.be]
User (www.kipling.com:(none)):
NERDHERO.ORG is also a Belgian registration, like Kipling.com...created in the last month perhaps just for this promotion??
Fishier and fishier. I still want free stuff from Kipling though. Give me a backpack...
Registrant:
NerdHero (NERDHERO-DOM)
Lei 16 - 1
Leuven, Branbant 3000
BELGIUM
Domain Name: NERDHERO.ORG
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Van Ginneken, Christophe (CV2247) Christophe.VanGinneken@TVD.BE
0032 447 9 35 35 4
Billing Contact:
Van Ginneken, Christophe (CV2247) Christophe.VanGinneken@TVD.BE
0032 447 9 35 35 4
Record last updated on 22-Feb-99.
Database last updated on 23-Mar-99 08:53:40 EST.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS.NERDHERO.ORG 194.7.66.77
AUTH00.NS.BE.UU.NET 194.7.1.19
Registrant:
Kipling (KIPLING5-DOM)
Tweemontstraat 23
Antwerp, Belgium (EUR) 2600
BE
Domain Name: KIPLING.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Weetjens, Wim (WW966) wim@DEFABRIEK.BE
+32 (0)16 292906 (FAX) +32 (0)16 292991
Billing Contact:
Weetjens, Wim (WW966) wim@DEFABRIEK.BE
+32 (0)16 292906 (FAX) +32 (0)16 292991
Record last updated on 22-Jul-98.
Database last updated on 23-Mar-99 08:53:40 EST.
Domain servers in listed order:
DNS.EUNET.BE 193.74.208.137
NS.EU.NET 192.16.202.11
Come on, I don't think that they expect anyone with any kind of technical ability to take this seriously, any more than Keebler expects anyone to beleive their "crackers" (is that the word?) come from 4 inch elves!
Their stated intent was for people to figure out their password by finding clues in their propaganda and figuring out the password. And now all the slashdotters who take themselves too seriosly are feeling like their indentity has been misappropriated! Do skydivers get this pissed when they see people jumping out of airplanes and drinking Pepsi?
Get a grip.
Words can have more than one meaning.
Maybe we can file a class-action suit! They have
slandered the name of our class!
Someone know a cool journalist who we can suggest this "it is a PR-stunt" idea? It will make them look bad if they are doing it as a marketing stunt.
Wonder if any of the sysadmin at Kipling read Slashdot... anyway, if you do, good luck. I have a hunch that alt.2600.com would be reserving some space for Kipling soon.
Right on! The site was hacked, not cracked.
The problem with your analogy is that the gay community *adopted* the word "gay" themselves since they didn't like the word "homosexual." It was the minority who changed the common useage of the word.
Hackers need to take back the word "hacker" which has been defiled by the ignorant.
I was working on the pass and logon with out any program. It had to do with the telephon numbers and the codes written into the page source.
Kiplings and yours?
where is your proof?
why did they need to pull the site then?
nothing was a miss, they could have continued serving pages.
I know
Yep. They sended me one, too. How many did they send out?
Yaknow, I'm really getting sick of people bitching about hackers incorrectly being labeled crackers, crackers being labeled hackers, and the like. The bottom line is, "who the f*** cares?" 10 years ago when I was a hacker, nobody used the term "cracker" unless dealing with EZ-Whip cannisters and getting a brief high.
Please, lameoids, get lives.
they are counting how many hits they get on the hacked site
http://www.planetinternet.be/pistat/cgi-bin/sit
So there is no evidence of the site being cracked
other than what they release to the press
...Which would be a real shame, since they occasionally used the word(s) correctly.
HSJ$$*&#^!#+++ATH0
NO CARRIER
Server: tettie.bitey.net
Address: 209.150.6.71
Non-authoritative answer:
Name: leuven.planetinternet.be
Address: 194.119.232.4
Aliases: www.planetinternet.be
[wakko@tettie] 6:37:11pm ~/> nslookup www.kipling.com
Server: tettie.bitey.net
Address: 209.150.6.71
Name: www.kipling.com
Address: 194.119.239.81
Look at the two IP addresses. Now traceroute them.
Here's the last bit of a traceroute to planetinternet's site:
16 be-br-dr08.unisource.be (194.119.226.169) 399.195 ms 369.74 ms 339.719 ms
17 194.119.225.182 (194.119.225.182) 309.978 ms 329.264 ms 329.628 ms
18 195.95.30.82 (195.95.30.82) 339.757 ms 195.95.30.85 (195.95.30.85) 359.241 ms 195.95.30.82 (195.95.30.82) 449.23 ms
19 passendale.planetinternet.be (195.95.30.90) 388.849 ms * 286.789 ms
20 hosting.planetinternet.be (194.119.239.2) 293.474 ms 319.294 ms *
And the last part of a traceroute to www.kipling.com:
16 be-br-dr08.unisource.be (194.119.226.169) 380.362 ms 387.695 ms 349.823 ms
17 194.119.225.182 (194.119.225.182) 350.344 ms * *
18 195.95.30.82 (195.95.30.82) 329.372 ms 195.95.30.85 (195.95.30.85) 358.755 ms 348.818 ms
19 passendale.planetinternet.be (195.95.30.90) 349.818 ms * 348.748 ms
20 hosting.planetinternet.be (194.119.239.2) 349.667 ms * 328.889 ms
Gee. What ever is planetinternet doing in there?
Dorks.
- A.P.
--
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
- A.P.
--
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Y'know, I think it'd be incredibly funny if someone cracked their web server (again?) and replaced their httpd with a hacked version that translated "hack" to "crack" on the fly on all outgoing pages...
ITYM "devolves".
My issue is that I like the term Hacker as in "person who finds a creative solution to the problem". Talking to the general public and saying I hack on computers would probably make them call the FBI.
To everyone out there: I am not Kevin Mitnick. I will not steal your credit cards or turn off your phone or charge up $15,000 in cell phone bills to Paraguay. I just like tinkering with my legally acquired machines.
What do you think are the chances that after a while they do a profile on some bogus but hip-looking "hacker" that cracked their site?
Oh, and of course he couldn't have done it without his "browser" bag.
VENI! VIDI! VICI!
Posted by Wereling#3:
I've gotta agree. NO offense to Kipling, but the very fact the page is still up seems a bit fishy. ALso, all the hacked pages I've ever seen usually say soemthing other than "We've been cracked", or at least say it in a different way. After all, if you're gonna do it, why not decry Kipling for being so stupd about the whole thing to begin with?
Heh, they're only "crackers" if they're all white boys. Oops, I thought I was a hacker, but I don't make furniture with an axe... :)
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
"Way too much time and is proficient with Photoshop"??? Just how long does it take *you* to draw two red lines and two lines of text over top of a graphic that was already on their web page? I think I could to that in 10 minutes, tops, and I've never used anything more complicated than xpaint.
The next Cmdr Taco duplicate will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
MTV did this a while back, 'cracking' their own site as a publicity stunt for some character they wanted to use for something or other. OF COURSE they got caught, and they got soundly spanked in the press for a while. No, I don't remember the character's name, but neither can anyone else. I think they took their licks and crawled home never to mention it again.
Combining annoying misuse of terminology with a fake stunt will - in the end - get them stomped. Even the script-kiddies (lets face it, the target audience) will avoid them like homework. "Kipling? Those guys are LAME. No kewl d00d uses Kipling!" Heard in schoolyards around the land.
(In a just world, phrases like that would immediately be followed by automatic gunfire, but oh, well.)
Since they posted a public (and well publicized) invitation to hack their site, does this mean that its open season on kipling.com, without those nasty legal possibilities? (But Mr. Fed, they *said* it was OK!) Heh.
-reemul
You're just jealous 'cuz the voices talk to *me*
Silly user, computers are for geeks!
--
Erskin
geek.
(Yet another /. URL typo ;)
--
Erskin
geek.
--
Erskin
geek.
Y'know, "Gay" used to mean "happy".
"Hacker" used to mean "coder/computer nerd/whatever", but since most people understand "hacker" to mean "cracker", then that's its meaning.
Language evolves. Live with it.
--
...if someone has changed your root password and deleted all other accounts. Add to that, they probably don't have anyone on-site that knows how to cold boot and re-install the the password files and/or os...
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
I'm not quite sure who Mooby is.. But if he has the password to the Kipling page, I believe I owe him a slashdot hat.
Cracking (at least when done technically, otherwise I'm not sure) is a special case of hacking, so saying `hacker' when referring to a `cracker' is correct, but not the other way around (unless the hacker is indeed a cracker, of course).
I'd have to disagree with you there. They're more like two groups that commonly overlap. Someone can be a cracker without being a hacker. aka script kiddies. Someone can be a hacker without being a cracker as well. But it's very possible to be both
Well whatever you say about kipling, they delivered on their promise.
C.
I sometimes write stuff
Or they just had a slow tape drive ;)
It's also possible that someone cracked the site, changed index.html just to be a bastard, then when Kipling figured it out, they whipped together the "we've been cracked" logo for the front.
I'd like to see a full documentation of what was done, if for no other reason than to prove/disprove its status as a hoax.
I would assume so, although these seem like the type of people who would be all cocky about nobody being able to crack their site.. until someone did it, at which point they would vow to "prosecute him/her to the full extent of the law." Anyway, I'm sure some enterprising /. reader out there can figure out a way to do it.
-mike kania
i've always understood hacker/cracker in this same way. that's why you download a "crack" when you want to disable copyright protection.
but see this is how everyone used these two words (well, everyone that i knew) back in the day. back when all i had was an apple IIc, crackers were known only as "those people who defeated copy protection on games." so, go figure. from my point of view everyone here is screwy and i'm the only one that has it right :)
yeah... but having seen their site before... the low-qual jpeg doesn't look like something they would have done... just my two bits ($.25)
the amazing bc
just another guy doing IT
webnaut, music junkie, holes-in-head
Yeah, the posted URL is wrong. Remove the trailing '"' from the Address field up at the top of your browser after you follow the link.
Yup. That was my first thought when I saw the wonderfully designed graphics. My two hunches are
;) But, like Obscure said... the site is still there. Since when do crackers forget to rm -rf, or at least make some minor but noticable changes to random pages throughout the site?
a) that they got someone to design it 10 minutes after they were cracked,
b) the cracker has way too much free time and is proficient with Photoshop
c) this was planned, the graphic was developed over a few weeks, was probably finished around the time the "crack our password" announcement was made, and its a poorly planned publicity stunt that anyone with half a brain (granted, thats a small percentage of people) can see through
Your guess is as good as mine.
The counter on that page (view source) that others have pointed out seems particularly fishy to me.
Either this is a faked publicity stunt,
or they really did get cracked, and are milking the publicity by putting up a counter on the page and leaving it up.
Somehow, the former seems more likely.
try http://www.wired.com/news/n ews/culture/story/18675.html instead :)
It's only a matter of time before they get burned. The sooner the better, I say.
Bite the hand.
Right on. Who cares.
It does say 'cracked' at the site at this time.
But it's truly sad to see a business website take pride in having been compromised.
A simple text message admitting the unfortunate fact (from their POV) is appropriate; a full collor, full page graphic, that still manages to push their product, is a marketting ploy.
"Look at US! We're SO POPULAR that k00l kidz broke our server!!!"
Maybe if we ignore them, they'll go away.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
It's more than semantics.
While a certain level of knowledge and indoctrination into the inner workings of computers is necessary to be either a cracker, or a hacker, this level of common knowledge is not enough to blurr the line between the two.
A hacker is someone who hacks code, who writes programs and tools for the sheer enjoyment of the experience, the furthering of the 'hacker' society (i.e. GNU) and the status derived from gifting his hacker peers with the fruits of the labour - if you subscribe to the 'gift culture' view of OSS.
A cracker is motivated by the benefits of getting something 'the easy way' as in the case of pirated software, of flaunting his 'expertise' in front of his cracker peers, and the thrill of breaking the 'rules'.
A skilled cracker may have the same creative capacity as a skilled hacker, but the difference in the fundamental ethics of the two groups will keep the cracker breaking into other cracker's computers to get already existing tools, rather than writing his own. Should a cracker feel that doind this is too much effort, he may write his on tool to do the crack for him, but the tool is only beneficial to him and other's like him. It does benefit his community - but only his community.
A skilled hacker, while enjoying the status that comes with having developed a useful tool, will prefer to collaborate with others of his ilk, if he does not find the necessary tool already available. Subsequently, he (the development group) will release the tool to the general public - thereby benefitting his community a'la the cracker. However, the nature of the tool is benevolent to all who are touched by it - contrast this with the effect of the cracker tool on those cracked by it.
So from a certain perspective, crackers can be seen as a subset of hackers, but with a fundamental difference in their ethical fabric and intent.
-- God, we're bombing people again...
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
Whenever I hear the word cracker, my mouth gets dry and salty... But that's just me.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
All I got was the following message:
:-(
[an error occurred while processing this
directive]
... when I went to the link
Physicists get Hadrons!
Silly user, computers are for geeks!
From the WWWebster Dictionary:
Danged intellectuals, changing the definition of good ol' carny jargon!
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
Whenever I heard the word cracker I think of my plumber... But that's just me.
:-)
Nobody who has a cracked site spends the time to create a pretty front page announcing that they were broken into. Also, I don't know the URLs to the other pages, but someone says the rest of the site is still there and that only the index page is different.
Anyone recall when Spielberg had that PR stunt, pretending that the Lost World website was cracked into? Jeez, that was even worse. The front page was professionally drawn, there were no political statements or cusswords, and worst of all, it was signed... Hakerz!
Someone tell the marketing boyz over at kipling that if they can't hang with all those big dogs out there, stay on the porch. Geez. I'm scared to have my IP floating in some circles, let alone baiting different user groups out on the internet...
N_P
oh, yeah. it's one of those new space-age urls that end in a quote character. rfc31337, i believe.
-- in china, chinese food is just called food.
I have it from very reliable sources within Planet Internet that the Kipling site was not cracked (for those of you that couldn't figure that one out by just looking at their "cracked" page). I have heard, however, that they had to move it (or are going to) to another server, because of the Slashdot effect and a number of DOS attacks. I think we should notify the press about this fumbled up PR stunt. It could generate a whole lot of negative publicity for the Kipling Hacker line, and expose them for the wannabees they really are :-)
superblog.org: all your favourite blogs on o
Because now all the other pages are gone. At least, I can't access them...
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
In the column to the right of that message, click on "Hackers Sack Competition Site". Or delete the quote at the end of the URL.
Whenever I hear the word cracker, I think of every other pro golfer except Tiger Woods. But that's just me...
Most hackers don't do anything nasty. That's the realm of crackers. Read the 10000 posts above for the distinction.
Visit me on #weirdness on the Galaxynet.
Why believe that this is for real?
If you look at the site, you will find that the only thing "cracked" is the index.html. You can still access all of the other pages on the site if you know the url. And if you look at the "cracked" site itself, it just doesn't seem like a real crack. My guess is that this is simply another calculated PR stunt. It worked, they kept their name in the press. As we all know, all press is good press.
obscure images/cDc obscure@cultdeadcow.com www.cultdeadcow.com
Whenever I hear the word cracker, i think of the guys who disable software security for piracy purposes.
But thats just me...
In terms of brand/product awareness, the marketing is working very well. In terms of making people want to buy the product... not.
I really doubt that anyone here would ever BUY one of their products (what is it, the spam suitcase? I hope Hormel sues them). They're getting publicity, but it's pretty negative stuff.
anyone been to nerdhero.org yet? Looks like kiplings trying to make up for it by slapping together a site w/ the penguins and the slashdot logo, plus if you click on the lil nerdhero title pic, you get to see all the contributers. one of wich is the mooby who cracked kipling's "hacker game" i thought that it didnt count if the person who knew the pass in the first place won. didnt he say that he had "social skills"? *shrug* will they ever learn that we're not a bunch of sheep?
Amazing... Kipling managed to get hacked the the world's first "marketing hacker". Breaks into sites and putes up nice little PR stunt pictures (then charges only half price for the service).
What kind of person hacks into a site and does nothing realy nasty?
The two most common things in the Universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
What it means is that Kipling's site is hosted on Planet Internet's servers, or at least through their site.
-- Holerith
Kipling are trying to take commercial advantage of the "hacker culture" with their stupid products. Too bad people gave them the publicity they wanted.
:) have always used the words hacker/cracker in a different way. Hackers were weird people using terminals who broke into computer systems. Crackers were people who broke the copy protection in games. The demoscene evolved from that pirate scene.
By the way.. I'm an old demoscener, and we (I can't speak for all demosceners though
To hack means "to accomplish a goal through lazy and or unconventional means." This is a definition that goes back before the time that tweaking and fine tuning of computer systems came to be known as "hacking." This is the definition one would use when saying that someone was a "useless hack." For example, a writer with no talent. Fixing your car with duct tape is, to me, also a "hack," or "hacking."
Cracking into computer systems certainly is an unconventional way to solve a problem (e.g., how do I get root and screw everything up), so I have no problem with this definition of "hacking."
No sig.
If the page was really hacked I would think there would be a Hackers' Group name or at least the hackers Nick claiming he cracked it. Although anyone that would actually hack it probably wouldn't want to be associated with them...hehe
But if I were gonna hack the page I would at least put a pic of a naked chick instead of the dumb girl on the front page...hehe
Latez
MoobY Knows
--- Sigmentation Fault - Comments Dumped
I just hacked into their FTP and send them some logs. I'm not as fake hacker and didn't harm them. Instead, I send them those logs, on which they called in their PhotoShop anti-hack personnel But it was Hacked MoobY knows
--- Sigmentation Fault - Comments Dumped
Thx for the hat, greg :]
--- Sigmentation Fault - Comments Dumped
MoobY knows - Total World Domination, NOW!
--- Sigmentation Fault - Comments Dumped
MoobY knows - I did a ftp hack and send them some of my logs to prove I got in, that's when they called in their photoshop guys.
But it's hacked, MoobY knows
--- Sigmentation Fault - Comments Dumped
It was hacked - I did hack their ftp site and send them some of my logs - It was hacked, MoobY knows
--- Sigmentation Fault - Comments Dumped
Planetinternet didn't do any of the hacking, their kipling's ISP, you dumbass.
It was hacked - MoobY knows
--- Sigmentation Fault - Comments Dumped