Posted by
Hemos
on from the c'mon-and-get-it dept.
Kevie-poo writes "According to LinuxPPC Inc - LinuxPPC R5 started shipping June 10th to CD-ROM customers. LinuxPPC says that they are in the process of upgrading their FTP servers for the download rush expected next week. Check it out at LinuxPPC "
Given that the kernel supports the Blue & White (or, as I like to call it, the Smurf Tower), and all Smurf Towers include the RAGE 128 card, I'd say you're safe.
Been there done that with the 2940U2W. Its a pain. Another pain is/dev/sdXXX. The Adaptec card screws with my IDs which means that Mk sda while LPPC boots from sdb even though they are on the same drive! Something about card names and alphabetical order. MESH, ADAPTEC or something. Oh well. I'm off to the mailbox even though I know it won't be there yet!
But you're missing out. I love the MacOS as much as anybody, and I think that as a USER's OS, it beats the pants off 'most any other. With the possible exception of BeOS, which (alas!) I can't run on my 8600/300. Linux is a hacker's OS. Learn. Make your brain more crinkly. Expand your mind.
Or don't. Smarter Mac users are up to YOU.
Re:Here's a Question...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Well, MacOS X isn't out yet, but I'll assume you meant MacOS X Server.:)
Go check out the Darwin development lists at Apple, there's a good discussion going on now about goals for porting X11 to Darwin (and therefore to MacOS X [Server]). GGI vs. IOKit, etc, etc.
Are certain about that? I'm running a preview on my 8600/300 right now and haven't ever had any problems. From what I've seen, all Mach5 PPCs can run it. My Quin-booting right now. MacOS, MacOS X Server, MkLinux DR3, LinuxPPC R4 (soon to be R5), BeOS preview. Its very busy.;-)
Not really....a machine can be supported, inclucing video hardware, without support for acceration. Actually, I doubt Rage 128 is supported, given how shortly its been out. That doesn't mean it isn't though...
-- Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
Re:it's on the ftp server now...or is it?
by
dtmf
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· Score: 1
I downloaded and installed it - it seems to be the final (got lots of updated rpm's) but I'm not totally sure.
I've been mucking around on a friend PowerBook G3 and Yellow Dog Champion Server 1.0 for a couple of weeks and for the life of me I can't get X to work (or networking for that matter).
Has anyone had success with a PBG3 and LinuxPPC? From the looks of most of the message lists this seems to be an elusive goal. Its really one of the only things keeping me from buying my own powerbook g3.
>Has anyone had success with a PBG3 and LinuxPPC? I'm running the pre-R5 release on it now.
XF68_FBDev (the default X server) died on me with a "no valid modes error" which was fixed by running Xautoconf, Xconfigurator doesn't seem to work for me, go figure. Doing this gives you X accellerated IIRC, but a messed up mouse/keyboard. (Emulate3Buttons doesn't seem to work with the mouse, and the backspace key is mapped to forward delete on the keyboard in some apps)
If you don't know how to fix these, you can do what I did, which was to make the Xpmac they also you the X server, which is also called "giving up":)
Harvey
Re:Goodbye, LinuxPPC
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Here it becomes a question of price/performance. Sure, you could get a 300-350 MHz G3 tower for less than $1500, but for the same price you could get a dual-PII/450 system with much more power, and already equipped with a SCSI card and SCSI drives.
With a slightly higher budget, Alphas and blue G3s might make sense. But for under $1600, you can buy a much better-equipped Intel box than anything else.
Especially with operating systems like Linux that support SMP, x86 really offers the best price/performance in the low budget range.
So yank out the power supply and take it to the closest computer store with people who actually know how to build and repair PC's. All of the Power Computing systems I've seen use PC standard PS/2 power supplies. If you show your power supply to someone who knows what to look for they should be able to tell you if you can swap yours out for a generic one. It shouldn't cost you more than $50 and hopefully that'll carry you over til when the G4's ship.
On the other hand, if you need to slap together a quick and dirty X86, you could likewise keep your current hard drive and CD-ROM drive (maybe with a cheap Linux compataible SCSI2 card if either is SCSI) and probably buy the rest of the parts you need (even good quality ones) for about $500.
Netscape now on the new lib... Yey!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
It seems that getting Netscape compatible with the new libs, is what was delaying things and keeping it in the pre release stage.
Although, from what else I understand, there is also a Mac Based installer, for installing RedHat!
Now, if we get the Debian for PPC too! Then the PPC crowd won't be led astray from "RedHat is Linux" altho, LinuxPPC is just a RedHat derivative.
Kudos to the LinuxPPC guys!
Re:Netscape now on the new lib... Yey!
by
jalper
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I'm told you can get Debian installed on PPC, just no t exactly sure how. I believe the only way to do it is from an existing installed linuxppc/redhat. Problem is the only guide I could really find searching around was written sometime last year...
Re:Netscape now on the new lib... Yey!
by
AArthur
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· Score: 2
It seems that getting Netscape compatible with the new libs, is what was delaying things and keeping it in the pre release stage.
Hell Yes. Netscape seemed to port the PowerPC-Linux version of Netscape 4.6 to glibc 2.1.1 in about 5 months. Why it took so long, we may never know.
Although, from what else I understand, there is also a Mac Based installer, for installing RedHat!
Well, it's not all a Mac installer. But it's not a RedHat installer. The install process consists of like 5 different installers. The standard one uses a Aladin Stuffit Installer to install Mac OS files in the right place (such as BootX extention, Kernel, Ram-Disk. Then you use BootX to boot into Linux. (That step is skipped if you are using OpenFirmware)
From their you get a perl script that finds a LinuxPPC-1999-Live-Install image on your disk which boots you into a gtk+/X11 based point and click installer. If you don't have the Live-Install image / with OpenFirmware, you just get the old RedHat-type Installer 6.0. Of course if you hate both Live-installer with X/gtk or RedHat-type installer you can always use a command-line perl script installer via. typeing control-z.
The install process is pretty easy to use, although the installer system is pretty big (almost 30 megabytes), not including any RPMS.
The installers (guides) make it definatly more usable.
GNOME seems to work great in LinuxPPC R5, the speed in much improved over LinuxPPC R4 GNOME and Yellow Dog Linux's GNOME.
It's been tweeked and ready to install on your machine now!
So has anyone gotten Debian installed on a PPC? I know it can be done, I've found sites of people who have done it, just no real current instructions on doing it. I'm loving Debian on my server machine at home, and I'd like to try it out on this new Powerbook G3 400mhz;)
All I know is that you can convert your LinuxPPC install to debian easily. I don't know about just debian, don't think they got any PPC installer ready yet.
-- De lyckliga slavarna är frihetens bittraste
fiender, legalisera!!!
I don't know about conversions... but if you already have LinuxPPC installed you can get Debian going from a tarball on a separate partition without too much hassle. I did it several months ago and it was good aside from feature-incompleteness and random crashing one would expect from an early development build. This could be a very nice PPC distro if they ever finish it.
Re:Debian on PPC
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Anonymous Coward
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The Debian installer works on PReP PowerPC machines. I'm running potato on 4 Motorola MTX's at work which are my development machines.
It's really nice compared to running RedHat/LinuxPPC.
One of the best things about R5 is that the kernel supports the Blue & White G3s. Although unless you've got more money than brains, you'd be insane to buy the hardware to run soley LinuxPPC -- it's just too expensive compared to Intel/AMD-based machines.
Um...not really...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I was in the market to buy a new G3 Mac as my company will reimburse me up to $2500 for a computer...which would barely buy a 400Mhz G3.
For the same price, I got a dual PIII 450Mhz SMP system with 20Gig HD, built in zip drive, 128 Megs of RAM, 6(yes, count them....6) PCI slots, AGP Slot, USB, 100Mhz bus, etc etc...
There was no comparison on price really. And running on dual processors with Linux in SMP mode tends to out do a PPC...at least for now. Though I am looking forward to SMP on the G4 when they come out.
Yes, Apple prices are down..but then again, so are all the other computer manufacturers out there. I will say that Apple has come a LONG way though.
I just went to the apple site, and for $2600 could get a 450 Mhz G3, Zip drive, 12 gig Ultra ATA HD, 64 meg of RAM, USB, 100Mhz bus, and four PCI slots (one has the video)
PLUS it comes with two Firewire ports, TWO USB ports, 10/100 enthernet, Top of the line video card, easy access case, for $50 bucks can get another 64mg RAM (third party), and since I don't know who put together your box, I am assuming it is another "generic" box, and who knows where the parts came from .
And this doesn't even count the added extra's you could get by buying from a re-seller.
Apples are pretty inexpensive now-a-days, all things considered.
Re:Um...not really...
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Anonymous Coward
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> PLUS it comes with two Firewire ports, TWO USB ports, 10/100 enthernet, Top of the line video card
Every PC motherboard comes with 2 USB ports, and 100BaseT cards are $20 in mail order. I certainly wouldn't call the ATI Rage 'top of the line', though.
> easy access case
This is one of the main redeeming qualities of all Macs since the Mac II, I have to say.
> And this doesn't even count the added extra's you could get by buying from a re-seller.
A bunch of MacOS software I'll never run. No thanks.
> Apples are pretty inexpensive now-a-days, all things considered.
Yes, I agree. The new G3 Macs are a very good value for the high-end user. But competitive on the low end? No way. (and I don't even want to think about the iMac, it has no expandability and isn't that cheap either)
I'd definitely consider the G3 macs for high-end systems, but then again I'd probably go out and buy an Alpha:)
The people that put together the box I mention is a quote I got from Penguin Computing. They're site for building custom systems doesn't have the latest prices.
But what you're saying is, for $2600 you get only one processor, only a 12 gig HD, only 4 PCI slots with no AGP, so so video card (by today's standards, TNT 2's are MUCH better...remember, that card on the new G3's is already out on the PC's and while good, is not "top of the line").
I get all the extra's from Penguin Computing, including support and warrenty. It's not a generic box at all and they even load the latest version of Linux and recompile the kernal for the custom systems.
Yes, Mac's have come way down in price. And yes, I use Mac's 8-12 hours a day (I'm a Photoshop professional). Not to mention the fact that I'm even writing this on a Mac, but I'm finding I just get more bang for the buck with PCs. I mean, it's like night and day! I started out configuring a G3 with the $2500 budget and thought I had a pretty good deal. Then just for laughs I went by the Dell and Gateway sites and was totally blown away on what you get for the price.
By the way, I could make this system much cheaper if I were simply to drop down to one processor...but then doing that I could send it back up to near the 2500 mark with a DVD or RW-CDROM drive and Dolby Digital 5.1 speaker system. Apple simply doesn't offer this. But that's ok. I'm personally looking for a Linux system.
Will I come screaming back to the Mac folds after a few months of running this thing? Who knows!
-- ---
"It's not enough that I succeed...everyone else must fail."
Re:Um...not really...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
The Apple machines are a bit expensive. A lot of the price is the harddrives ($360 MORE for a 12 gig ATAPI?), and the RAM. But, Apple also builds and designs custom cases and motherboards(mb's aren't cheap to make, if it's a custom design). For the record, the bus on the B&W machines can go up to 150Mhz, if the ram will support the speeds (although I beleive there are some other chips on the mbs that flake out at 150, but it supports speeds in between). The cost is due to volume. Of course, the Apple machine is going to be put together better, IMO, heh. And the case is better. Of course, the real reason I was writing this, is I wanted to know the details on the parts you had for your system. I was just curious...
I think Apple still needs to come a long way, like shave at least 15% off prices and go back to SCSI.
Besides, no matter what Apple says the performance over a PC is, consumers see the MHz, RAM, and HD numbers as the end-all be-all indication of the bang the machine will give them for their buck. If you put a 450MHz G3 next to a 450MHz P2, both with 128MB of RAM and 13GB HD, they'll buy the PC because it's $500 less, even if it does perform disproportionately slower (pricewise) and is technically inferior.
Re:Um...not really...
by
Anonymous Coward
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but I'm finding I just get more bang for the buck with PCs. I mean, it's like night and day! I started out configuring a G3 with the $2500 budget and thought I had a pretty good deal. Then just for laughs I went by the Dell and Gateway sites and was totally blown away on what you get for the price.
Look, it's plainly obvious your main criteria is price. For you and anyone else out there, price is not the main criteria for everyone. The iMac showed that. While PCs dropped below $700 including monitor, iMacs were being sold.
You want to run Linux only? PCs and probably Alphas are best in price/performance, maybe the latter even more. If you want the cheapest thing on the face of the earth, sheer market economics tells you PCs are going to be cheaper before you even go out to price them.
You want to run any version of MacOS? You gotta get a Mac. For many people, they like MacOS. For many people, they like Mac hardware. Whatever the reason, you don't have much other option.
I wanna run MacOS and Linux as fast as possible? Get a B&W G3 300 mhz, remove the daughterboard, slap in a 3rd part card, crank it to 533, and be happy. Need PCI slots? Get an expander. They work well. Want SCSI? Get an Adaptec or something.
Do I pay more? Yeah. Could I get an equivalent performing machine for less? Yeah. Would I be happy with it? Hell no. No MacOS. No MacOS X server. No nice GUI (don't even compare the Linux desktops--not even close). With a PC, people spend more time configuring and tinkering with the damn things, iguring out its next quirk or fighting viruses than doing work on it.
btw, I've got a C610, Q650, a B&W G3, a P90 running Linux and OpenBSD, and a P200 running Win98 (my entertainment system) and BeOS. PCs and Linux are fun and they have their places, just not yet the desktop. I do more of my work (papers, graphics, presentations, organization, etc.) on my Mac.
This is pretty cool- I've been using the development release for a little while its been pretty solid the kinks have been bad enough that I haven't been able to use it as much as I'd like. If it's stable then then only thing I'll use mac os for will be midi and quicktime stuff. I hope/wish they'd package the video input drivers with the distribution. Now I'll be watching their ftp site for it to pop up - can't wait!
Finally! You know what this means!
by
Paradox
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· Score: 1
Dust off your iMacs folks! It's time to make those little suckers way more useful!
I remember hacking R4 to work on the iMac. Even then linux on an iMac was a cool workstation idea. - Paradox
-- Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
Re:ISO image of LinuxPPC CD??
by
dadams
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· Score: 1
I've never been able to find them. MkLinux always posts them, but LinuxPPC doesn't.
-- --"In dreams begin responsibilities" - Delmore Schwartz
I'm still waiting for R6, code named LinuXXX. Features include new programs like Xnudetorvalds and nhooker, an ncurses based frontend to the old prostitute database 'hooker'.
-- Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
Re:bootable with b&w g3s
by
Anonymous Coward
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Actually, the blue and white G3's are very competitively priced. At the lowest end model costing just $1600 coming with a 300mhz G3 CPU, 2 USB ports, 2 Firewire Ports, a Rage 128 built in graphics card on a 64 bit pci bus, this machine will dust just about any PC out of the box in benchmarks.:)
Woohoo! I pre-ordered R5 a few months ago. My PPC box needs some serious updating.
ISO image of LinuxPPC CD??
by
DrkVisage
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· Score: 1
Has anyone seen an ISO image of the LinuxPPC CD out there? I searched on http://ftpsearch.lycos.com for a long time and didn't find a thing... but I did find lots of RedHat 6.0 CD ISO images... argghh!
Goodbye, LinuxPPC
by
Anonymous Coward
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The R5 release is wonderful (and long-awaited) news, but it looks like it's the last upgrade my aging Power Computing Linux/PPC box will see. The poor little thing has lived through hard drive failures, IDE malfunctions, a logic board replacement, and more, and now the power supply is starting to go.
So I'm in the market for a new computer. I'm a student, which means I'm on a rather tight budget, and Apple has priced themselves right out of my range. Since they killed the cloners, the iMac is the only new Mac hardware in the >US$1500 price range, and it's not expandable/upgradeable enough to meet my needs.
I've looked at all of my options. I want to buy new (waranteed) hardware, so there's no possibility of a PPC box I can afford. Alpha is tempting, but they come at quite a premium. Sparc workstations are right out. The StrongARM-based NetWinder (originally made by Corel) looks promising and affordable, but I'd like to see it more established before deciding to own one.
So I've eliminated it down to x86. I suppose that's okay, but I'd like to have more of a choice. For one thing, I like the Mac architecture better. Just watching my friends partition hard drives on their Intel boxes is painful---it's about three times more complicated than on my PPC. Hardware and SCSI standards look like a mess to someone coming from Mac-compatible hardware. Also, I'd really like to continue using both MacOS and BeOS as secondary OSs.
But more importantly, I don't like the idea of any platform dominating as much as the Intel (and clones) PC. Choice is a good thing in hardware as well as software, but even among Linux geeks, whom I would expect to appreciate the value of choice, few look beyond the x86 platform.
I looked at all my options, and decided on x86 because of my budget. But for those of you who can afford it, consider other processors and platforms next time you buy new hardware. Support alternatives!
Why not stick to your guns and get another Mac, since you seem to want one so much?
You could get an old 7x00 mainframe and drop in a G3, overclock it, add a good SCSI card and be pretty stylin' for less money than you're talking about.
You're asking us all to support alternatives but you're going to buy a peecee... man, who needs a warranty? If you get that 7x00 you can replace whatever you need to for very little money and you won't have the kinds of problems associated with Apple's crappy IDE-based systems.
Have courage! You don't need that warranty if you pick your hardware carefully.
The poster expressed a desire to continue running MacOS and BeOS in addition to Linux.
You're not trying to suggest e can do that with a cheap peecee...?
Honestly, unless your only interest is running a super-tweaked server, what possible advantage exists in a PII/450 over a G3 tower? Both have far more processing power than most individuals can readily take advantage of. Although, the PII is clearly the better choice if your computer needs to double as a space heater.
With reference to the original post, it seems this is more of an issue of compatibility with installed software and feeling good about choosing alternatives than of having the faster hot-rod.
For a CS student, I'd go with a RISC machine. The x86 instruction set doesn't have much life left in it.
Re:Goodbye, LinuxPPC
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Anonymous Coward
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infinity micro has a 266/G3 DT for $1539.00 only $40.00 over your budget. Thanks to www.pricepulse.com
Re:bootable with b&w g3s
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Anonymous Coward
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> On every PC I've ever owned, I've spent a significant amount of time futzing with the retarded 1980s-style hardware settings such as IRQs and IO ports. Fine for me, because I know how to do it, but quite a few people do not (and nor should they have to in this day-and-age,)
Modern PC hardware mostly avoids IRQ conflicts and IO ports by using PCI. Now, the only problems are the _real_ conflicts that exist on on both PCs and Macs (where card A doesn't work with card B, and there ain't nothing you can do about it)
> So, is being able to avoid this by running Mac hardware worth the couple hundred bucks extra? It is if you look at the market rate for PC hardware technicians
The Mac hardware is good if you are into performance and hacking and are skilled with Linux. For beginners and those who don't have the money to spend, build yourself an AMD based x86 system for $500 and be happy.
Why waste money on PC technicians? Buy stuff that works, not crap, and you will be happy. If you buy a piece of equipment that doesn't work, return it. It's your right. Don't waste time trying to fight crap hardware.
> (What I'd expect, though, is that the Linux/PPC driver support for expansion cards is more limited than x86, so maybe the point is moot.)
Driver support shouldn't be that bad. Most of the "good" PCI hardware should be supported in LinuxPPC. The _only_ problem with LinuxPPC is that it just doesn't have a huge user base, so there will be more little hiccups that others haven't run into yet.
Whoooo Hooooooo !!! Allright , it's not much of a reply... but what the hell , you can't sue me . ( Virginia residents must take a deep breath and consider that this is not a defamating statement )
Re:bootable with b&w g3s
by
Anonymous Coward
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I have Intel, Mac, and Sparc machines running Linux. If your time is worth less than about US$5 per hour, then Intel offers the best price/performance. If you time is worth more than about US$5/hour, then Mac offers the best price/performance. IMO.
All ATI "rage" video cards, including the 128 used in the B&W towers, use the Mach64 2d chipset, thereby making them accelerated in X. Thank you for your time.
-- cheese logs keep my wang warm at night.
Re:it's on the ftp server now...or is it?
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Anonymous Coward
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Has anyone tried upgrading from R4 to R5 on an iMac? How did it go?
Does anyone know what kind of video accelerator support R5 comes with? I hope it has built in support for the various ATI chips, seeing as how they've been in every mac with one of these for quite a while now. I know that previous releases didn't, making the gui slooooow. --Matt
-- Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
It does have some ATI support, though it was written for the Mach64 if I'm not mistaken (works just fine on my Rage Pro, and should work on their other chipsets too).
I know it also supports the IMS Twin Turbo (which was popular with the clones) and the Matrox Millennium. Then there are the Control and Valkyrie chipsets (used in older PowerMacs before Apple used ATI's stuff).
After that, I don't know. Have I missed any?
Re:Video Acceration
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Anonymous Coward
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Is that a Rage 128? Sorry, all the 'rage' just confuses me. My card says ATI Rage 128, and I am sort of thinking about trying R5, but if the card in a blue G3 doesn't work, I'll wait
it's on the ftp server now
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DarkClown
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ftp://ftp.linuxppc.org/linuxppc-R5-final/
woohoo!
Re:bootable with b&w g3s
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IntlHarvester
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On every PC I've ever owned, I've spent a significant amount of time futzing with the retarded 1980s-style hardware settings such as IRQs and IO ports. Fine for me, because I know how to do it, but quite a few people do not (and nor should they have to in this day-and-age,)
So, is being able to avoid this by running Mac hardware worth the couple hundred bucks extra? It is if you look at the market rate for PC hardware technicians.
(What I'd expect, though, is that the Linux/PPC driver support for expansion cards is more limited than x86, so maybe the point is moot.)
Re:bootable with b&w g3s
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Anonymous Coward
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$1500 if you buy from outpost.com with free shipping and no tax.
Cheap Macs
by
Anonymous Coward
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Since you still have the PowerComputing machine (my POS PowerCOmputing machine is in it's death throws--I just hope it lasts until the G4's come out), that means you still have a monitor.
So why not get one of the new G3 towers? From the Apple Store, the cheapest one (350 mhz) is $1599, but if you shop around you should be able to knock $100 of that price. Or you could go for a B&W G3/300 from MacMall for $1391. The same model as at the Apple Store, but $200 and 50mhz less.
The PowerComputing PowerWave (IMHO) is one of the best Macintoshes ever made. My PowerWave 604/150MHz has been running non-stop since the day I brought it home from the Macworld Expo.
Over the years I've upgraded the processor to a 604e/200Mhz, added more memory to the 8 DIMM slots (try and find that in a machine today), replaced the 1.2 GB hard drive (it still works, I just needed more space), and replaced the CD-ROM (the tray motor failed, so I put in a nice 32X).
This was the first machine I purchased with my own money - it had a special place in my heart. When I finally needed a newer computer I didn't want to get rid of my old PowerWave. So I slapped down the bucks and bought a copy of LinuxPPC R4. With that and a second network card my old box shines as web server and firewall for my private network.
I can't wait to upgrade to R5 and I heartily reccomend LinuxPPC to anyone with an older Power Macintosh. (if you've never used Linux before, this is a great way to learn) You've still got a great piece of hardware there, LinuxPPC breathes new life into it!
Hmm, I wonder if I should get one of those of those G3 daughtercards to go with my R5 upgrade?
Yes...I do agree with you.
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Anonymous Coward
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Yes, for me personally in my situation, price is a sticking point because I'm working under a fixed budget (I buy the computer, and my company pays me back up to $2500).
I've always felt that you pay a little extra for a Mac for the privilage of using it...which I've done for many years and will continue to do. When this machine I'm writing on (A 604e Mac) gives out, I'll invest in another one. But for the time being, I'm looking for the most power for the least amount of money. I am miffed though, as are quite a few Mac users, that Apple has only 4 PCI slots in their current line-up. Yes, they're are expanders, but the thing is we shouldn't HAVE to use one. Also, daughtercards from other manufacturers may not support future versions of the Mac OS(X). For instance, it's still not known for absolute certainty that 604 and 603 Macs that have G3 upgrade cards from NewerTech and others will even run MacOS X. Hopefully they will.
As far as GUI, Linux is getting there...but of course it's got a ways to go for many people. It will evolve. I myself (this is me personally now) like the GUI of the NeXT, so when I use WindowMaker on Linux, I find it's better...again, for me...than the Macintosh.
Perhaps it's just my bordom. I've been using Macs since they first came out...before that Apple II's. I need something to rattle my cage...to challenge me. If I go down in flames, so be it. I won't be any worse for the wear. And maybe I'll learn a thing or two.
Re:bootable with b&w g3s
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IntlHarvester
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· Score: 2
Well, I've had my share of troubles even with non-ISA hardware. (PCI IRQ sharing that was broken, PCMCIA modems on IRQ 9, Laptops that ship from the factor with NO free IRQS making expansion impossible, I could go on forever...)
If someone who doesn't understand PC AT IRQs (let's say your average Mac user, even the hardware techs), you honestly expect them to build their own AMD system? --
I've always loved the PPC architecture, but I never could afford it. I was able to get linux installed on a G3 notebook that I had for a while. I was simply amazed at how well it ran compared to intel notebooks.
I just want to know where they got the Star Trek enlightenment theme, it would work well with my GTreK theme that I am trying to put together.
Hello Alpha ;-)
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1
Alpha is tempting, but they come at quite a premium.
Nowadays? DEC Alpha 21164A is *very* inexpensive, and the 21164PC systems even more so.
Just last week I purchased a Digital Personal Workstation 500a (500Mhz, 21164A) with 2MB cache, 64MB ECC, 4.3GB UltraSCSI (on a QLogic controller!), DEC 2114x ethernet, etc. for under $1300.00 from Great Lakes Computer. REfurbished with a 30-day warranty, the unit looks brand-new - had Debian running on it within an hour of receiving the unit.
Mind you that I've seen these systems go for even less on Ebay (though without a warranty), and bare 21164PC MLB's go for under $300.
Why settle for 32-bit CPU's (x86 / PPC) and 64-bit wide memory when 64-bit CPU / 128-bit memory is roughly the same price? BTW, the Linux-Alpha port is 64-bit clean and is progressing very rapidly - it's definitely nice to be ahead of the curve;-)
Re:bootable with b&w g3s
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
I buy my Mac hardware so I can use a Mac. Not as an expensive Linux toy.
Re:it's on the ftp server now...or is it?
by
jalper
·
· Score: 1
heh, don't jump the gun, I dunno if its really ready...
ftp> cd linuxppc-R5-final 250 CWD command successful. ftp> pwd 257 "/linuxppc-pre-R5" is current directory.
Slashdot Mirror
Given that the kernel supports the Blue & White (or, as I like to call it, the Smurf Tower), and all Smurf Towers include the RAGE 128 card, I'd say you're safe.
What to do? Go to the mailbox and see if my CD is here, or read more /.? Such a difficult choice.
I sure hope they supported the Adaptec SCSI cards in the kernel this time - I don't want to yank the card out to boot it this time around.
So don't run Linux.
But you're missing out. I love the MacOS as much as anybody, and I think that as a USER's OS, it beats the pants off 'most any other. With the possible exception of BeOS, which (alas!) I can't run on my 8600/300. Linux is a hacker's OS. Learn. Make your brain more crinkly. Expand your mind.
Or don't. Smarter Mac users are up to YOU.
Well, MacOS X isn't out yet, but I'll assume you meant MacOS X Server. :)
Go check out the Darwin development lists at Apple, there's a good discussion going on now about goals for porting X11 to Darwin (and therefore to MacOS X [Server]). GGI vs. IOKit, etc, etc.
Are certain about that? I'm running a preview on my 8600/300 right now and haven't ever had any problems. From what I've seen, all Mach5 PPCs can run it. My Quin-booting right now. MacOS, MacOS X Server, MkLinux DR3, LinuxPPC R4 (soon to be R5), BeOS preview. Its very busy. ;-)
Justin
This was, Uh, borrowed from a friend.
---
What's this script do?
unzip ; touch ; finger ; mount --verbose ; umount ; sleep
Justin
---
http://www.macselect.com/desktops.html
There, now stay w/ us mac users.
It's a Blue G3 300/64MB RAM/6GB HD/100Mbit EtherNet/FireWire/USB/easy-open/will work w/ OSX Server/easily overclockable to 350/400/maybe 450
This is the same machine I have, and it's nice. get it and stay Mac.
Not really....a machine can be supported, inclucing video hardware, without support for acceration. Actually, I doubt Rage 128 is supported, given how shortly its been out. That doesn't mean it isn't though...
Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
I downloaded and installed it - it seems to be the final (got lots of updated rpm's) but I'm not totally sure.
It sure beats R4 right out of the box though...
-- darron@froese.org
I've been mucking around on a friend PowerBook G3 and Yellow Dog Champion Server 1.0 for a couple of weeks and for the life of me I can't get X to work (or networking for that matter).
Has anyone had success with a PBG3 and LinuxPPC? From the looks of most of the message lists this seems to be an elusive goal. Its really one of the only things keeping me from buying my own powerbook g3.
My Slashdot account is old enough to drink...
With a slightly higher budget, Alphas and blue G3s might make sense. But for under $1600, you can buy a much better-equipped Intel box than anything else.
Especially with operating systems like Linux that support SMP, x86 really offers the best price/performance in the low budget range.
So yank out the power supply and take it to the closest computer store with people who actually know how to build and repair PC's. All of the Power Computing systems I've seen use PC standard PS/2 power supplies. If you show your power supply to someone who knows what to look for they should be able to tell you if you can swap yours out for a generic one. It shouldn't cost you more than $50 and hopefully that'll carry you over til when the G4's ship.
On the other hand, if you need to slap together a quick and dirty X86, you could likewise keep your current hard drive and CD-ROM drive (maybe with a cheap Linux compataible SCSI2 card if either is SCSI) and probably buy the rest of the parts you need (even good quality ones) for about $500.
It seems that getting Netscape compatible with the new libs, is what was delaying things and keeping it in the pre release stage.
Although, from what else I understand, there is also a Mac Based installer, for installing RedHat!
Now, if we get the Debian for PPC too! Then the PPC crowd won't be led astray from "RedHat is Linux" altho, LinuxPPC is just a RedHat derivative.
Kudos to the LinuxPPC guys!
So has anyone gotten Debian installed on a PPC? I know it can be done, I've found sites of people who have done it, just no real current instructions on doing it. I'm loving Debian on my server machine at home, and I'd like to try it out on this new Powerbook G3 400mhz ;)
Actually, there was a speed bump recently, and $1600 will now buy you a 350 Mhz G3.
-- mihai
One of the best things about R5 is that the kernel supports the Blue & White G3s. Although unless you've got more money than brains, you'd be insane to buy the hardware to run soley LinuxPPC -- it's just too expensive compared to Intel/AMD-based machines.
--
Rare Window - free your photos
I was in the market to buy a new G3 Mac as my company will reimburse me up to $2500 for a computer...which would barely buy a 400Mhz G3.
For the same price, I got a dual PIII 450Mhz SMP system with 20Gig HD, built in zip drive, 128 Megs of RAM, 6(yes, count them....6) PCI slots, AGP Slot, USB, 100Mhz bus, etc etc...
There was no comparison on price really. And running on dual processors with Linux in SMP mode tends to out do a PPC...at least for now. Though I am looking forward to SMP on the G4 when they come out.
Yes, Apple prices are down..but then again, so are all the other computer manufacturers out there. I will say that Apple has come a LONG way though.
This is pretty cool- I've been using the development release for a little while its been pretty solid the kinks have been bad enough that I haven't been able to use it as much as I'd like. If it's stable then then only thing I'll use mac os for will be midi and quicktime stuff.
I hope/wish they'd package the video input drivers with the distribution.
Now I'll be watching their ftp site for it to pop up - can't wait!
Dust off your iMacs folks! It's time to make
those little suckers way more useful!
I remember hacking R4 to work on the iMac. Even then linux on an iMac was a cool workstation idea.
- Paradox
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
I've never been able to find them. MkLinux always posts them, but LinuxPPC doesn't.
--"In dreams begin responsibilities" - Delmore Schwartz
I'm still waiting for R6, code named LinuXXX. Features include new programs like Xnudetorvalds and nhooker, an ncurses based frontend to the old prostitute database 'hooker'.
Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
Actually, the blue and white G3's are very competitively priced. At the lowest end model costing just $1600 coming with a 300mhz G3 CPU, 2 USB ports, 2 Firewire Ports, a Rage 128 built in graphics card on a 64 bit pci bus, this machine will dust just about any PC out of the box in benchmarks. :)
Woohoo! I pre-ordered R5 a few months ago. My PPC box needs some serious updating.
Has anyone seen an ISO image of the LinuxPPC CD out there? I searched on http://ftpsearch.lycos.com for a long time and didn't find a thing... but I did find lots of RedHat 6.0 CD ISO images... argghh!
So I'm in the market for a new computer. I'm a student, which means I'm on a rather tight budget, and Apple has priced themselves right out of my range. Since they killed the cloners, the iMac is the only new Mac hardware in the >US$1500 price range, and it's not expandable/upgradeable enough to meet my needs.
I've looked at all of my options. I want to buy new (waranteed) hardware, so there's no possibility of a PPC box I can afford. Alpha is tempting, but they come at quite a premium. Sparc workstations are right out. The StrongARM-based NetWinder (originally made by Corel) looks promising and affordable, but I'd like to see it more established before deciding to own one.
So I've eliminated it down to x86. I suppose that's okay, but I'd like to have more of a choice. For one thing, I like the Mac architecture better. Just watching my friends partition hard drives on their Intel boxes is painful---it's about three times more complicated than on my PPC. Hardware and SCSI standards look like a mess to someone coming from Mac-compatible hardware. Also, I'd really like to continue using both MacOS and BeOS as secondary OSs.
But more importantly, I don't like the idea of any platform dominating as much as the Intel (and clones) PC. Choice is a good thing in hardware as well as software, but even among Linux geeks, whom I would expect to appreciate the value of choice, few look beyond the x86 platform.
I looked at all my options, and decided on x86 because of my budget. But for those of you who can afford it, consider other processors and platforms next time you buy new hardware. Support alternatives!
> On every PC I've ever owned, I've spent a significant amount of time futzing with the retarded 1980s-style hardware settings such as IRQs and IO ports. Fine for me, because I know how to do it, but quite a few people do not (and nor should they have to in this day-and-age,)
Modern PC hardware mostly avoids IRQ conflicts and IO ports by using PCI. Now, the only problems are the _real_ conflicts that exist on on both PCs and Macs (where card A doesn't work with card B, and there ain't nothing you can do about it)
> So, is being able to avoid this by running Mac hardware worth the couple hundred bucks extra? It is if you look at the market rate for PC hardware technicians
The Mac hardware is good if you are into performance and hacking and are skilled with Linux. For beginners and those who don't have the money to spend, build yourself an AMD based x86 system for $500 and be happy.
Why waste money on PC technicians? Buy stuff that works, not crap, and you will be happy. If you buy a piece of equipment that doesn't work, return it. It's your right. Don't waste time trying to fight crap hardware.
> (What I'd expect, though, is that the Linux/PPC driver support for expansion cards is more limited than x86, so maybe the point is moot.)
Driver support shouldn't be that bad. Most of the "good" PCI hardware should be supported in LinuxPPC. The _only_ problem with LinuxPPC is that it just doesn't have a huge user base, so there will be more little hiccups that others haven't run into yet.
Whoooo Hooooooo !!! ... but what the hell , you can't sue me . ( Virginia residents must take a deep breath and consider that this is not a defamating statement )
Allright , it's not much of a reply
I have Intel, Mac, and Sparc machines running Linux. If your time is worth less than about US$5 per hour, then Intel offers the best price/performance. If you time is worth more than about US$5/hour, then Mac offers the best price/performance. IMO.
All ATI "rage" video cards, including the 128 used in the B&W towers, use the Mach64 2d chipset, thereby making them accelerated in X. Thank you for your time.
cheese logs keep my wang warm at night.
Has anyone tried upgrading from R4 to R5 on an iMac? How did it go?
Anyone know where to find an ISO of R5? Thanks.
mTor
Does anyone know what kind of video accelerator support R5 comes with? I hope it has built in support for the various ATI chips, seeing as how they've been in every mac with one of these for quite a while now. I know that previous releases didn't, making the gui slooooow.
--Matt
Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
ftp://ftp.linuxppc.org/linuxppc-R5-final/
woohoo!
On every PC I've ever owned, I've spent a significant amount of time futzing with the retarded 1980s-style hardware settings such as IRQs and IO ports. Fine for me, because I know how to do it, but quite a few people do not (and nor should they have to in this day-and-age,)
So, is being able to avoid this by running Mac hardware worth the couple hundred bucks extra? It is if you look at the market rate for PC hardware technicians.
(What I'd expect, though, is that the Linux/PPC driver support for expansion cards is more limited than x86, so maybe the point is moot.)
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
$1500 if you buy from outpost.com with free shipping and no tax.
Since you still have the PowerComputing machine (my POS PowerCOmputing machine is in it's death throws--I just hope it lasts until the G4's come out), that means you still have a monitor.
So why not get one of the new G3 towers? From the Apple Store, the cheapest one (350 mhz) is $1599, but if you shop around you should be able to knock $100 of that price. Or you could go for a B&W G3/300 from MacMall for $1391. The same model as at the Apple Store, but $200 and 50mhz less.
Glad to see you guys finally got this out!
Changes aren't permanent, but change is.
The PowerComputing PowerWave (IMHO) is one of the best Macintoshes ever made. My PowerWave 604/150MHz has been running non-stop since the day I brought it home from the Macworld Expo.
Over the years I've upgraded the processor to a 604e/200Mhz, added more memory to the 8 DIMM slots (try and find that in a machine today), replaced the 1.2 GB hard drive (it still works, I just needed more space), and replaced the CD-ROM (the tray motor failed, so I put in a nice 32X).
This was the first machine I purchased with my own money - it had a special place in my heart. When I finally needed a newer computer I didn't want to get rid of my old PowerWave. So I slapped down the bucks and bought a copy of LinuxPPC R4. With that and a second network card my old box shines as web server and firewall for my private network.
I can't wait to upgrade to R5 and I heartily reccomend LinuxPPC to anyone with an older Power Macintosh. (if you've never used Linux before, this is a great way to learn) You've still got a great piece of hardware there, LinuxPPC breathes new life into it!
Hmm, I wonder if I should get one of those of those G3 daughtercards to go with my R5 upgrade?
Yes, for me personally in my situation, price is a sticking point because I'm working under a fixed budget (I buy the computer, and my company pays me back up to $2500).
I've always felt that you pay a little extra for a Mac for the privilage of using it...which I've done for many years and will continue to do. When this machine I'm writing on (A 604e Mac) gives out, I'll invest in another one. But for the time being, I'm looking for the most power for the least amount of money. I am miffed though, as are quite a few Mac users, that Apple has only 4 PCI slots in their current line-up. Yes, they're are expanders, but the thing is we shouldn't HAVE to use one. Also, daughtercards from other manufacturers may not support future versions of the Mac OS(X). For instance, it's still not known for absolute certainty that 604 and 603 Macs that have G3 upgrade cards from NewerTech and others will even run MacOS X. Hopefully they will.
As far as GUI, Linux is getting there...but of course it's got a ways to go for many people. It will evolve. I myself (this is me personally now) like the GUI of the NeXT, so when I use WindowMaker on Linux, I find it's better...again, for me...than the Macintosh.
Perhaps it's just my bordom. I've been using Macs since they first came out...before that Apple II's. I need something to rattle my cage...to challenge me. If I go down in flames, so be it. I won't be any worse for the wear. And maybe I'll learn a thing or two.
Well, I've had my share of troubles even with non-ISA hardware. (PCI IRQ sharing that was broken, PCMCIA modems on IRQ 9, Laptops that ship from the factor with NO free IRQS making expansion impossible, I could go on forever...)
If someone who doesn't understand PC AT IRQs (let's say your average Mac user, even the hardware techs), you honestly expect them to build their own AMD system?
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Posted by oNZeNeMo (guns'n ammo):
I've always loved the PPC architecture, but I never could afford it. I was able to get linux installed on a G3 notebook that I had for a while. I was simply amazed at how well it ran compared to intel notebooks.
I just want to know where they got the Star Trek enlightenment theme, it would work well with my GTreK theme that I am trying to put together.
Alpha is tempting, but they come at quite a premium.
;-)
Nowadays? DEC Alpha 21164A is *very* inexpensive, and the 21164PC systems even more so.
Just last week I purchased a Digital Personal Workstation 500a (500Mhz, 21164A) with 2MB cache, 64MB ECC, 4.3GB UltraSCSI (on a QLogic controller!), DEC 2114x ethernet, etc. for under $1300.00 from Great Lakes Computer. REfurbished with a 30-day warranty, the unit looks brand-new - had Debian running on it within an hour of receiving the unit.
Mind you that I've seen these systems go for even less on Ebay (though without a warranty), and bare 21164PC MLB's go for under $300.
Why settle for 32-bit CPU's (x86 / PPC) and 64-bit wide memory when 64-bit CPU / 128-bit memory is roughly the same price? BTW, the Linux-Alpha port is 64-bit clean and is progressing very rapidly - it's definitely nice to be ahead of the curve
I buy my Mac hardware so I can use a Mac. Not as an expensive Linux toy.
heh, don't jump the gun, I dunno if its really ready...
ftp> cd linuxppc-R5-final
250 CWD command successful.
ftp> pwd
257 "/linuxppc-pre-R5" is current directory.
The motherboard can handle up to 700mhz processors. Very good for future upgradability.
Anybody running X11 + KDE/GNOME/e/WMAKER on Mac OSX yet? Sorry, I'm not trying po Mac people, just curious...