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QNX partnering w/Phase 5 to make PowerPC computer
Emission writes "Canada based QSSL, which formerly were supposed to deliver the kernel for the next generation Amigas, with their QNX Neutrino kernel, today announced that they will instead partner with Phase 5 in order to port the Neutrino OS to Amigas equipped with Phase 5's PowerPC based PowerUP cards. Phase 5 has also announced a new quad CPU computer, the AmiRage K2, which will run Neutrino as its native OS. See the partnering announcement for details.
This is apparently targetted at the many Amigans who are less than satisfied with Amiga Inc's decision to base the Amiga OE on the Linux kernel. " Erg-I can barely keep up with the changes that's going on. My head hurts.
Yea I got most of that. BeOS needs to be ported over to a 64-bit CPU, like a MIPS R12K. It would boot in -12 seconds flat everytime. :)
Dual boot better IRIX and BeOS on a stacked out, pimp tight SGI workstation, MMmmmmmmmmm Sweet.
What where we talking about... SGI? Don't get me started, you know what they should do....
QNX Neutrino & Photon GUI is SMP. It is finished for x86.
A demo has been available for download for some time. It fits on a
single 1.44mb floppy. Neutrino, Photon GUI, TCP stack and browser. Yo
can get on the net with ONE floppy.
Less than 1/10 of the kernel/OS is cpu dependent so is entirely
portable. AND the kernel is tiny.
Alan Day - Dumfries & Galloway, Scotland, UK
This post was improperly moderated IMHO. It is not flamebait, it's FACT!. Not only that, it's TRUE FACT. QNX is not currently shipping *ANY* os which supports SMP, nor any OS which runs on PPC.
Am I the only one who's noticed that SlashDot is completely dominated by corporate news these days? Look at the articles posted here today, for example:
1) QNX
2) NSI
3) AOL/Sun/Netscape
4) Game Consoles (Sony/Nintendo,...)
5) AOL
6) Telstra
7) Westwood
8) USPS
9) Perl (finally!)
10) WalMart
Boring.
One, or arguably 2 articles out of 10 dealing with something *other* than what the corporations are up to. What I want to know about is what *our* community is doing -- where are the stories about the latest developments in free software projects like GNOME or KDE, etc. I'm sick of seeing stories about the latest IPO from some tech-related corporation. I want "News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters", not news for businessmen.
A disgruntled long-time fan of Slashdot.
Phase 5 is a hardware company - and a reasonably competent one at that. (Though certainly they do software work too, most hardware companies do - eg device drivers, etc.) OTOH QNX is a software company - and again a pretty competent one. I think between them, they could crank out a pretty nice machine.
Probably one of the things that made projects like the a\box fail was that they (phase 5 alone) tried to bite off two much work to chew on - certainly having the software side covered (at least half the battle) they should be able to pull it off this time around.
If you had in fact used the single floppy demo as you claim you would have realized that the towers of hannoi demo is a javascript game.
If you can afford Lightwave 3D (a pretty nice program, I will admit) than you can afford to buy the NT box (x86 or Alpha, take your pick), PowerMac, SGI, Sun, etc. machine that it already runs on. At one time I remember seeing a usenet post from Mr.SHF himself saying they were interested in porting to the NG Mac OS (called OS X these days) but that was quite some time ago - dunno if they still plan this, though I don't see why not considering that they already have the product on Mac OS and Apple is now full steam ahead with things like Open GL.
You really like CoolEdit BTW? Its ok I guess - SoundForge is pretty good too for just a wav editor. Cubase VST is kinda neat for a bloatware MIDI sequencer with multitrack audio. I'd like to get a Creamware Pulsar card one of these days when ether 1) hell freezes over and they write drivers for NT, or 2) they finish the Mac drivers.
I'm never going to touch 95/98 again - hope to get away from NT someday. Cant wait to fool with OS X. And the Phase 5 + QNX NG Amiga sound kinda neat too, might have to get one if it ever materializes. OTOH - the NG AmigaLinux based on X Windows I can do without.
Your comment sums up the whole thing perfectly!
Somebody moderate this up to a 5!
Linux may not be very special from a design standpoint, being a simple re-implementation of UNIX, but it's very stable, and will allow the people developing the Amiga OE to skip over the more mundane and time consuming parts of the system and aget to work on The Good Stuff.
No doubt it was a marketing decision, but probably a correct one. So called "mindshare" does matter.
Listen bub, I called QNX today and asked: Can you send me something that supports dual processors on x86 or any other platform.. They *SAY* neutrion does, but they have NOT released anything that does.. IT's VAPORWARE!
As far as 1/10 cpu dependant goes, prob the same with Linux.. At least w/ Linux I could actually go and look.. With QNX it's equally likely to be a number the marketing guys pulled from their collective asses.
Dunno about the crap your running.. But *MY* big router has 5 68060's and two PPC cpus.. But then again, it doesn't run QNX..
Go BAY!
If you think QNX is another new fad OS, you havn't been around much. it is used in industrial environment, usually with custom software, not consumer market. If shut your hole when you don't know anything, you will learn more and be smarter. Linux is killing QNX right now. I like QNX much but i don't think it has a future now that everybody goes for linux. it is still much faster than linux tho.
Because many in the Amiga community have a (somewhat understandable) loathing of the x86 platform. Look at all the criticism and discontent at even just the initial deelopment platform for the AmigaNG being x86 based.
Because computers are supposed to Be fun. x86 boxes aren't fun, no matter what they Be running.
This clearly should not go under the Amiga icon. We need a QNX icon, or a QNX vs. Amiga icon, or just a good vaporware icon.
Or why not just put them all under the Penguin? Eventually the PR for any manufacturer will claim their system is Linux based.
Yes, Amiga Inc is owned by Gateway (yes the cowbox people) Why bother posting if you don't even know this?
> why don't they just use x86 hardware then??
Ask them
BTW this Amirage thing has nothing to do with Amiga Inc.
Phase5 isn't exactly known for shipping products on time, or shipping them at all in some cases. (Pre/Box and A/box come to mind). However, to their credit, they have shipped accelerators for the amiga and have some of the better ones around. They also have created some of the best videocards you can get for the amiga. (too bad everything is at a pretty steep price, but what do you expect with low quantities?) When you think about it, what has Amiga Inc. Actually *done* for the amiga community lately? Alot of promises, and perhaps an update to the OS, but beyond that they've mostly just spun PR around. I think Phase5 deserves a bit more credit than what has been shown on here. They've tried and failed just like amiga has, but who knows, maybe they'll actually be able to use what they learned from the A/box and Pre/box mistakes and do it right this time. I am somewhat skeptical that either will actually come out with a product, or atleast, that it will live up to the hype, but maybe they will prove me wrong. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. It should be interesting!
I think he ment the excellent sound editor / HD recording software CoolEdit Pro.. Not the text editor (cooledit texteditor is by the way a linux program)...
yesterday there was a web page at QSSL with the list of drivers for NTO/Amiga, here's a link to read it as it has been removed from the site but was in my cache.
--
http://www.beroute.tzo.com
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
During the last rounds of the PIOS mess Be said that as soon as someone started shipping an affordable PPC system in large quantities they would port.
I guess there's no difference.
Cuz QNX is a real-time OS?
I once installed QNX on my 486 machine and my friend on his pent90, we were quite impressed with the speed with GUI. We like it much but, being poor students and all means linux.
Now, it seems to me that those people who made comment, especially negative ones, really have no clue what QNX is. This brings up another topic. after all, slashdot nowadays are, as we all saw in the poll, 1/3 windows people who have yet made the transition to unixes, but already burned a handful of linux and unix warez CDs.
can't we just say "slow news day?"
o well i guess i shouldn't complain, at least there's no sea and boat and divers like all other news.
don't bitch at someone for being ignorent, when you yourself are no better, the only relation java and javascript have is there name (and the coding style they share with c, c++, perl, python, etc)
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
"So gateway(the cow box people) is doing it? That doesn't make sense why don't they just use x86 hardware then??"
Maybe they heard about this product differentiation thing and thought they'd give it a go?
the amiga was never dead!
i dont know why so many think it is
phase5 were the guys talking a couple of years ago about an Amiga-style computer called the A\Box, which never saw the light of day. They were also planning a multi-processor Amiga-compat called the pre\Box, which also never happened. With this track record, I'm a bit sceptical. It'd be nice if it did happen, though. phase5's hardware is (in my experience) very good.
I guess they're trying to recoup whatever investment they made on Neutrino. Still, I really have to wonder if this OS is good enough to sell lots of boxes. I mean gee, didn't Be Inc go public just a couple of days ago? And are we not in agreement that even though BeOS is Wicked Cool(tm), Be Inc realistically doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell? Why is this different?
Reality check: QNX does not do SMP, QNX has gone nowhere outside of x86.
Get real! The are trying to blowoff intrest in Amiga.
This is just the next sequel in Amiga soap opera.
Nothing will ever come out of this.
//Pingo
--- Linux or FreeBSD, it's like blondes or brunettes. I like both. ---
Phase 5: Fighting Vaporware with Vaporware since 1995!
Phase 5: If we don't ship it, you didn't want it.
Phase 5: One of three promises actually ships, it's six months late and 150% it's original budget, but when you finally get it, it's GOOOOOD...
Phase 5: If this don't work out, you can always try out Mac accelerators instead!
Phase 5: Cooperation, shmooperation - just don't piss us off, okay?
~ radiographite: art by john shepard
In related news, QNX is hoping to partner with anyone. Anyone out there want an OS cheap? Please? ;>
What's the motivation to switch from a free OS like Linux then?
There isn't? I don't know what market they're after, but I doubt the Linux community is it. More likely, they'll be going after set-top boxes and entry level computers, taking users away from MS, not Linux.
Look ma! I'm a pundit! ;)
--Mark
Phase 5 have never really been happy with AInc. Amiga blew them off by first announcing that the new AmigaOS would be PPC, then changing their minds, leaving Phase5's powerUp business rather dead in the water.
I believe that they haven't managed to get any guarantees about being able to manufacture NG Amiga hardware either, so I suppose this is logical for them.
They are rather burning their bridges with Amiga Inc, however.
Let's get ready to rummmmmble ... and may the best man^h^h^h system win!p Welcome to the fray!
Phase 5 have never really been happy with AInc. Amiga blew them off by first announcing that the new AmigaOS would be PPC, then changing their minds, leaving Phase5's powerUp business rather dead in the water.
I believe that they haven't managed to get any guarantees about being able to manufacture NG Amiga hardware either, so I suppose this is logical for them.
They are rather burning their bridges with Amiga Inc, however.
And they are utterly notorious for product slippage.
Methinks I hear more nails being driven into the Amiga coffin.
That's just what they need now - a split in the community. Sure, fragment that user base even more!
Man, I loved my Amigas back in the Chicken Lips days, but I'm sure glad I moved to Linux. Smartest thing I ever did.
Now if only Softlogik would port Pagestream to Linux, and NewTek would port Lightwave to Linux, my life would be complete.
I would really like to hear from Amiga, QNX, and Phase 5 as to how they actually expect to create viable products out of all this Amiga stuff. The PowerUP + QNX stuff seems to have some merit for those still hanging on to their old Amigas, but I don't see how a new Amiga will fly at all.
Business plan-wise nobody is doing anything new and different here. It's the same thing Be tried, and Be failed. Technology-wise Be is better, a completely new design with many design features making it better than OS/2, Windows, or *nix. All this Amiga stuff is dragging legacy Amiga or *nix into the design. What's the motivation to switch from a free OS like Linux then? It has to be more than several percent improvement in multimedia performance. CPUs improve so fast that by the time software comes out to utilize that small difference, a new faster CPU running an older, less advanced OS, can muscle through the same job. It may not be pretty, but it works, and is how it is working.
As the PPC add on boards are almost as expensive as a budget PC I can't quite see how they can make an entire computer to this spec for as cheap as they seem to be implying.
I'm probably stupid about this, but I got a couple of questions.
1) Isn't Amiga dead, Is it like one of those atari things where (Hardcore) hobbyists use outdated techs for the fun of it?
2) Didn't the company that produced Amiga, go out of business.
3) Are these "new" guys rewrite the entire system for commerical benifits? (IE, not OSS, but to sale it in a (closed?) binary format).
4) I should of read those other 16 news post before this, I just thought it was about some ranting crazy talking about the amiga sub culture.
I am not sure but according to the stuff I read
QNX is much more modern and includes more interesting features than BeOS does... Basically BeOS is cool because it didn't went through time yet... And hasn't been slowed down much yet... But QNX really brings new concepts to mainstream...
Just take Be's object model for instance (Ok it is not OS related) it is not revolutionary at all... They are not bringing new stuff here...
I wonder why Be has failed already? They've just gone public with a pretty decent showing and the OS is stronger than ever.
Did I miss some big news that Be's out of business?
I think that is exactly what Amiga Inc intends to attempt. There's a lot of money to be made there. Might be going after BeOS's check too; hard to tell.
Not sure what QNX Neutrino and Phase 5 going for. It looks like they are going for the hobbyists who find the free Unixes to be boring. Maybe they'll also go after the mindless droids too, but it's hard to tell at this point. (I wish QNX would speak up!!) And keep in mind that QNX also does imbedded systems that can stealthily creep into everyone's lives without them even knowing it. Who knows, your car/toaster/router might be running their stuff.
BTW, you are wrong about MacOS.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Win** is targeted to keeping tech support people employed.
MacOS is for people who want to get stuff done, not fiddle about with configuration stuff.
We use QNX version 4 and 6 at work. It is solid -- does not crash, but really retarded when it comes to hardware.
Will not run on Celeron, AMD, Cyrix, Pentium III or Xeon!!!
Will not run on x/100 clocked Proccesors ( no 100s , 200s, 300s) usualy this means that you just need to jumper or switch the speed down.
Now I have seen the new demos and was really impressed... but not that much. Any browser with no java is prety pointless.
What tech support?
In my opinion Phase5 is probably one of the few companies that really deserve respect in the Amiga world.
They were one of the very few who actually delivered products like PPC boards, gfx boards and software support for them. sure they didn't release their x/Boxes, but neither did Amiga Inc. At least they had prototypes...
I own a Phase5 accelerator board and know some others who do, and they are usually very satisfied.
So, if ANYBODY deserves to get some credibility, then it's Phase5.
Sorry, I should have said that their dedicated BeBox failed. On the OS side, even though they just went public, they've got a long road to hoe before they can become a soluable company. I hope I don't sound like I'm against Be, I'm just pessimistic. I don't know what Be's set-top plans are, but I hope they can make a go there, same wishes for Amiga in that space. The desktop arena is just to crowded.
You know what I like about OSS? If the developer goes belly up, it doesn't matter. As long as user/developers exist the OSS lives on. My long term fear for BeOS and Amiga is, that if they don't make it, their technologies will be lost or potentially bought by M$ and put on a shelf where it can't hurt them. Versus Linux, if EVERY distro went defunct (I can't imagine how) the software is still out there and some college geek will pick it up and carry on. It can never die.
Ryan
yesterday there was at www.qnx.com/amiga/drivers.html a full list of driver supported by NTO, it has dissapear!
--
http://www.beroute.tzo.com
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
Great... Phase5 is probably the largest vapourware company in the
world (percentage-wise - number of products they announce, relative to
number that actually ship,) and has the _WORST_ tech-support -
even worse than Microsoft...
I guess this puts an end to QNX's interest in the Amiga market..
Hmm.. interesting theory - what if QNX is aware of Phase5's
shortcomings, and is doing this to save face? (We couldn't carry
through with our promises because the hardware company we partnered
with dropped the ball...)
This may be slightly off-topic, but I think I can see all the company's logic. This makes my head hurt too - I was a staunch and loyal member of the Amiga community for a very long time. Most would be simply overjoyed to have a new Amiga come out - any Amiga. Now there will be TWO?
.]
Anyway, Phase 5 has been cut out of the loop for a very long time. They are still trying to work with the old Amiga architecture and update it (even with the A/box and pre/Box projects that fizzled). To their credit they have been very good and very didicated.
Amiga Inc has decided to start over (and as we read in CatB, you have to be prepared to "start over, at least once"). I sincerely hope that Amiga Inc's "magical mystery chip" is Transmeta's and that it turns out to be worth the secrecy and hype.
FWIW, I think Amiga Inc. is right and Phase 5 is wrong. Embracing the Linux kernel is the only chance Amiga really has of creating a place for itself. I've been thinking about this a lot since the Linux for Amiga announcement. This might be the perfect opportunity for LFTM. Phase 5 and QNX will be just another bit player, and will end up like the old Amiga - lost in the shuffle, with little hope of getting into the mainstream. [I know, I know - it saddens me too, but there comes a point you have to cut the cord and move on
Think about Amiga Inc's vision. A new Amiga - which has some (very specialized) name recognition, "running Linux" (you know that's how the press will talk about it), using the newest, greatest powerhouse CPU from the mysterious Transmeta. This will have Linux binary compatability (read: large application base), ONE desktop, ONE look and feel (with the option to add more later, but having ONE at first is a key point for LFTM), plug and play hardware (if they are lucky), ONE video system (already configured for X-windows and 3D), ONE sound system (really key, and still painful for Linux in general). This could be THE saving grace for Linux For The Masses - somewhere everyone can start. For 75%, that will be it. The rest will add and play a little at a time (read: progressive disclosure - another user interface point for LFTM). No sysadmin duties, no configuration worries, plug it in and run. Period. It could be "the Linux box any grandmother can use".
I whish BeOS ran on That Baby .....
But the baby isn't out Yet
Reminds Me Pios who said they would release the Pios One in 6 month and 6 month later said in 6 month and so on until they just drop the idea of making a PPC machine.
But if this baby ever comes out, linux Will rock on it (especially since Motorola gave the egcs project evrything for altivec support).
none Yet.
ok QNX was based on the same o/s that sits in your router (if you have a good one)
so for that reason it does not do SMP uh huh
its a real time OS ideal for embeding into products what they are trying to achive here I dont know this comes far to fast on the heals of amiga's PR on linux
what do thy hope to achive maybe they want to licence it to others but this seems the wrong way to go about it !
all that work and they dont realise what its for !!!
john jones
a poor student @ bournemouth uni in the UK (a deltic so please dont moan about spelling but the content)
I really hope, this could lead to inexpensive PowerPC-based PCs, even cheaper then some of Apple's cheap machines-- (the iMac [at us$1299] and the iBook [at us$1599]).
:-( This is too bad, since the PowerPC platform is well designed and put together, even if it has some faults.
Other PowerPC hardware is much more expensive.
Today really is pretty heavy on the business stuff, it's true.
...
But it's not really possible to neatly cleave business news from technical news: technical products are sold, after all, and the companies that make them and employ their designers grow, shrink, go new directions, make missteps
Also, as Linux becomes better known and more successful among non-Uebergeek users (I fit somewhere in the slime-mold sequence of computer users;) so I know we're out here!), the fact is that more things which are undeniably Business will be significant to slashdotters. If a big hardware company is even a smidgeon more open about their design to Open Sourcerers, it's a big deal.
Also, since now many businesses are (figuratively) scratching their chins and mumbling about Free OS alternatives to the perpetually baited hook of MS Upgrade, it makes sense that business coverage is more and more relevant.
Just some thoughts,
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
I don't want to go see a demo, i'd love to be able to buy any OS real cheap, like 25-30 USDollars, because then it really isn't too much to try it. Want to see if you like linux??? Go to Cheapbytes and pick up a CD for $2,or a few CD's for only slightly more. Low costs = more people will try it. High costs == forget it.
The cost to try out Mac OS may seem high, btw, but since macs are relatively strong in education, most people probably got a chance to REALLY try a mac at their school. I know I did, but to me, it wasn't worth the money, at least at the time. Anyway, making it easy, cheap, and sometimes free to people to use a product, is a way to get more people to buy it.
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
That posting was just to show the world that QSSL is not in the stone age with regards to drivers.
Also, these drivers were all written with real-time applications in mind. That means that there are no unbounded loops, they're slim, and *very* reliable.
The day Linux (or CE) runs nuclear powerplants and mission critical medical equipment is the day I head for the nearest fallout shelter!
Phase5 announced the A/box when Amiga had no owner (after Escom went
bust) and put it on hold once Gateway bought Amiga.
They have QNX neutrino OS and the hardware is off-the-shelf so it
should be easy/quick to produce. I have a few phase5 cards -they re
all he best in their respective catagories, well designed and
manufacture and reliable
Alan Day - Dumfries & Galloway, Scotland, UK
Eudora would be nice - a complete, full function Email client. Postilion is neat, Balsa is half done, Netscape stinks... A nice GUI Email client would be really nice, and it's not too much to ask for. :P
Cool Edit would be nice, but check out "nedit" and "Slick Edit Pro" for starters - pretty darned nice.
Why? We have all the *nix that we should ever need, over 80 in all, more than 25 still in active (support &) develpment. And if for some (impossiable) reason *nix ceaes to exist, there is BeOS. Why do we need Amiga, what is it targeted torwards??
BeOS is targeted towards media workstations, ok we can use that.
*nix is targeted towards server and workstations, ok we NEED those.
Win** is targeted towards making moeny, ok the stock market likes this.
MacOS is targeted towards people that don't like the expand their minds They need to be discarded.
And for the hobbyist there is free *nix (linux, *BSD) (and what ever GNU HUD is) and x86 hardware, old SGI/SUN equipment, OSS, lego mindstorms, HAM radio networks, etc. etc.
So What exactly is this OS going to try and fit in, from my POV it looks like all positions are filled. We could dump Win** and MAC and stick the mindless droids on Amiga boxes
Call up QNX right now, and tell them you'd like to purchase an OS from that that will use SMP and run on PowerPC and you need it within a week.
They are saying it will in the future.. Thats BS today.