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Some KDE news
The KDE Development team progress seems very good these days. You can now take a look at some screenshots from the KDE 2 pre alpha. Also, the KDevelop team has announced today the 1.0 Beta 1 version of KDevelop. I must say it looks very promising.
Yes they will be (atleast if you are running KDE). I remember reading about a plan to export KDE style themes as pixmap themes for GNOME apps. So your apps will look the same. Also, there was talk of using the same multimedia system. I think DnD is already taken care of. Now if they can just agree on CORBA, the two desktops should be compatible with each other and that is A Very Good Thing(tm).
-matt
If the Kpanel didn't suck so much, id use KDE, but as it stands, its very not pretty and its not configurable at all.
I've used Eterm, and I've used Aterm. A quick study will show you how Aterm uses less than half the memory Eterm does. It does the same stuff, too. You can go get it at this link
Unfortionatly, isn't a mirrow of the downloads, merely the page.. :-{
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
First, I personally do not need networking and I suspect that a lot of home users (i.e. desktop users) will not need it either. Yet I cannot turn the networked architecture off and switch to something more direct and efficient and with fewer components communicating between themselves.
I think that this statement is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how UNIX works. It is clear (I hope) that any effective display server has to be a separate process from the programs which display on it. Given this, there obviously must be some means of communication between the server and the clients. On a UNIX system this generally means opening a socket of some form, be it TCP, Unix domain, or just a pipe. This is not only the standard way of doing things, it is quite efficient most of the time; the only place where it really fails is *extremely* high-bandwidth transfers (think big pixmaps being written all over the screen), which is why shared-memory was invented. Any halfway modern app will probably detect that it's running on a local X server and use shared memory where appropriate -- ie, for bandwidth-intensive things like moving images around. (eg: *any* Imlib-based program will use SHM) The Myth2 demo is a good example of this -- on a *framebuffer X server* -- a server entirely lacking in acceleration -- I acheived a high framerate with the game running *in a window*. (I couldn't find how to clock it but it seemed like it had maxed out -- I noticed little improvement on a PII/400 with an accelerated server)
Without networking, there's no reason to have a client-server architecture
This is completely false. Even the kernel itself is in many ways a client-server architecture: programs connect with system calls and request stuff from it. (the Hurd just makes this explicit)
How would you allow multiple programs to access a single display at once without some sort of server?
I suspect all of stand-alone X desktop functionality can be written as one file for maximum speed and efficiency.
Which functionality are you referring to?
A networked version is only good as an option.
But given that programs are *already*, for reasons mentioned above, connecting in a client-server fashion using localhost UNIX sockets why not make the simple jump to supporting TCP and get five times the flexibility?
Second, I hope someone starts a page dedicated to pointing out what's wrong with X.
Most criticism I've seen of X is a slightly more literate version of "X sux, it's too big!" or "X sux, it scares me!" There are some real warts but the "X must die!!!!" camp generally doesn't even mention them (probably because most of them just mean that specific issues need to be fixed rather than throwing out the entire system they've got so much vitriol for)
If nothing else, it'd help X evolve in the right direction.
Read: the one I want.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
It is not proprietary.
Not only the whole source code is out there, but any fully compliant CORBA ORB could use the same authentication setup.
But Kdevelop ISN'T less. As a programming device, it is MUCH MUCH more than what Slickedit is. The purpose of KDE is to bring a Free desktop to Unix machines. (And yes, Linux, a Unix workalike. Keep going and you may get that cert soon!) . A FREE desktop, with a very neat development enviroment forming. I think that that says why Kdevelop is so good.
Mags
I disbelieve that you've ever actually looked at X code, let alone had the experience to say something like this.. Why would one EVER REMOVE API's? There is no need. The performance issues with X are a completely seperate issue...
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
I was able to grab the source, but not the c refs and other stuff :(
Earlier I preferred the motif style (long time
Motif developer so I got used to it). But after
using the Platinum style for a few days, there
was no turning back.
The Belin project looks like a neat idea, but the usefulness of a 3D desktop environment currently escapes me. Integrating 3D with the 2D desktop seems like a very good idea, given the 2D screens we all use.
The Berlin stuff isn't 3D, strictly speaking. Since the coordinate systems are in 3d, and it can use OpenGL as a display target (also Postscript and some other things now), yes, you probably can do a 3d desktop with it. I guess the main thing is that we don't really have any very usable 3d desktop UI paradigms yet, so it looks like we'll be doing a more "traditional" UI first. The 3d capabilities are mainly there as a matter of planning ahead.
So, most likely (at least from what I see now), the first major Berlin releases are going to be a more or less conventional 2d desktop with some really neat features, and once they're out people are more likely to start exploring 3d UI elements with it.
(in response to the obvious question, no, the 3d stuff doesn't really cost you anything if you don't use it)
---
DNA just wants to be free...
Win98 *is* Win95 and IE. Shipping win98 as a product is just a Microsoft distribution mechanism designed to spread IE as much as possible. Other than that there's no real difference between win98 and win95. MS now considers the win9x platform essentially dead, remember? That's what all this hype about win2k is really about; MS is trying to move people off the win95 arch as fast as they possibly can. win95 was a mistake and has been soiling MS's reputation since the day it was released.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
If you try to force your way of doing things down my throat, I'll use something else, thankyouverymuch.
Single/double-clicking _definitely_ needs to be user-selectable.
--
All Glory To The Hypnotoad!
A dialog editor and Corba-ing an icon editor is not RAD. Delphi, Builder, VB are all RAD tools. kDevelop is simplyt a knock-off of MS DevStudio.
MY favoite app for linux right now is the kwm. IT rocks. I use to dislike it because its was a little bit slower then the rest of the windows managers but its getting pretty to look at with each new kde release and the new themes for it look really cool. My main reason for living it is the intergration with the kde desktop and the tool bar and everything else about kde. I really love kde as a whole bunch of programs that interact with each other. Microsoft is allways worried about the next killer app that will come out under there nose and I believe they found there match. WOrse yet its not windows based. :-)
.4 to install. Something about obstdc not found. I cant fidn this fiel anywhere. :-( BUt version .3 rocks on my mahcine. Its loaded with application wizards just vc++ and I can have a wizard for a kde app, qt app, or even jstu a consule app. THere is even a documentation windows so I can load a c-reference manual, kde programmer reference manual, or even just a help manual for kdevelop itself. KDe even can use emacs style key bindings. IT ROCKS. GO download it. If you can't afford code warrior this is the next great thing.
.3 from this time last year where it was about as easy as windows 2.0 is a huge leap that scares ms half-to-death. IF this progess continues you could expect microsoft to have a terrible headache when widnows 2002 wich will ship in 2004 :-) will not be the easest to use on the block and linux will be the number1 OS in Germany, Japan, China, Korea and perhaps spain or Italy. WHo knows. All I know is that 5 years ago linux was just a toy that only cs nerds heard of. This is just my perspective on kde and how its going to change unix.
MY second favorite app for linux is kdevelop. I had trouble getting kdevelop
I also have a friend who works at microsoft and he told me that kde scares the sh*t out of Steve Balmer more then any other linux app besides apache. I believe in 5 to 7years from now, kde will match if not surpass the ease of use of wibdows. KDE is allready passed windows 3.1 and is right now close to windows95 in terms of ease of use. Its still in the middle though. BUt compared to the kde beta
I would love to have crystal ball and look five years into the future. I could bet you that kde will be aorund and be probably the defacto standard in xwindows managers by then with machines ranging form 768- 2 gigs of ram where the preformance drop in kde will not be that noticable compared to windows maker at that time. I imagine that linux will still run on very old machiens though so the other windows managers wills till be there. All I know is that Caldera only uses kde and has kde and qt intergrated in everything. Suse loves kde as well and even redhat who invested ing gnome also a default configuration for kde.
In 4 weeks kde 1.2 will be done. It included lots of themes and high color icons. I cant wait for it.
Not the other way around.
That makes me smile...I don't use most of KDE, but I do use kfm. Faster KDE file manager is good.
I'd like it to handle remote sessions better... It could use some actual honest-to-God authentication and encryption of traffic, for starters.
And I dunno so much about that "efficient" bit...
I'd like it to be faster and more responsive to mouse and other input. It is a great model for server software, but on the desktop it gets in the way, stealing processing power to provide functionality most do not need and providing backward compatibility.
Why the hell should they ditch X?
If you're worried about speed wait till XFree86 4.0 with precision insight's direct rendering
infrastructure and built in 3d hardware
acceleration (with help from SGI).
KDE 2.0 and Gnome address most of the usability issues. What else do you want?
You forgot the application wizard.
I found a list of mirrors. Some only have the page, some have docs and tools, some have the source. Here they are:
ftp://129.187.206.68/pub/unix/ide/KDevelop/
ftp://ftp.bawue.de/pub/unix/KDevelop/
ftp://ftp.chg.ru/pub/X11/kdevelop/
ftp://ftp.weltopia.com/pub/kdevelop/
Is there a real pager (fvwm-style) available for KDE? I really hate those CDE-style desktop buttons.
At your option.
Read that carefully. It means you're not BOUND to future versions. This isn't a loose license.. it very tightly infects every code you create.
Mags
Looks nice. Too bad I can only get 640x480 on my old monitor.... :(
gnome is not a gui, you still need a window manager of some kind.
It's just a glorifed tool bar.
I downloaded a snapshot of kde2 a few days ago, and it compiled cleanly, a few packages in kdenetwork didn't like it, but everything else was just fine.
It looks really nice and I get the feeling that big progress have been made in the underlaying architechture. To bad it segfaulted every other minute while I was using it, but I geuss that's why it's still pre-alpha.
Haven't tried kdevelop.
This is great stuff. There is more GUI competition within Linux than the rest of the computing world put together. I think we'll see great things from both KDE and Gnome.
Deleted
Okay, I hate to be a nitpick, but I've seen your posts to the KDE mailing lists and I can't take it anymore.Your apostrophes show up as Z's with semicircles over them on TTF fonts. (I think that's a Czech character, no?)
As long as huge awesome apps like Office (don't tell me it's 'bloatware' and shit, you stupid zealots. Only hackers still use text-editors.)
,IS bloatware, any flippin' Office suite that takes 4, count 'em 4 CDs to ship, could be anything but bloatware.
Lets see, Word Perferct, Koffice, Corel, Star Office. Compapred to any one of these MS Office
Guys this is all just realism. We do this Linux thing because it's a hobby. Us hackers are the type of people who like to know what no one else knows. We like to have secret weapons to show off if need be. If everyone uses Linux, then what is the point anymore?
I was under the impression that, that [everyone using Linux] was the point. Call me naive, but arent we doing this for the masses, to show them that there is a different if not better choice ? If you are only doing it because it is cool, then maybe you are in it for the wrong reasons. There are plenty of us out here who have put their jobs on the line and used Linux, only to prove to upper management that it is cost effective and requires less day to day support.
And even if you are right... 5 to 7 years??? Come on! What we know of user interfaces will be NOTHING like right now in 5 to 7 years! If anything, we will sit and have conversations with our computers. I know I don't want to be looking at some dumb colorful icon while I chat with my machine. Each UI serves a purpose, and KDE will either fall or change into something that is no longer what we know of KDE.
Sure and "1984" came true ! These specualtions are ridiculous, The UI IS changing but ever so slowly. Wnat will keep it roughly the same as it is, is the same thing that keeps MS in power, the people. Have you EVER tried to get someone to use a different UI, or convince a secretary that uses WIN95 that Linux is better ? KDE is growing up, and they will be able to change with the time, but I disagree with you abhout the UI being so totally different in 5 years. Come to think of it I disagree with just about everything you said
It's by the hungry programmers. Haven't heard anything about it in over a year tho. I think it's vaporware.
geez...
KFM runs fine on my P166/32meg, but I compiled everything myself...
A year ago I tried KDE and was dissapointed by the memory requirement (I had only 32 megabytes -- AMD K6 200 Mhz). I tried then Gnome and still continue to use it because it fits well in my system and not overload it.
Recently, I took the old computer of my father (486-DX 66Mhz + 8 Megs of memory) because I wanted to have a small installation for working when I am to his flat. Gnome worked with a good answer to my action while KDE really made my swap partition screamed and was terribly slow !!!
I agree that Kde is more advanced than Gnome for the end user and is it a reason to have it eating memory ?
I would like to have more information about the memory requirement for KDEI think sad to have 128 Mb of memory for having the same speed than NT with 64 Mb or Windows 9x with 32 Mb!
La Schwarzasse.I have the same problem on my p166 wiht 64 megs of ram. After it boots its fine. THe only other thing thats slow is when you first boot up kde and then lcick the kde information icon on the tool bar which displays its setup takes almost 25 seconds.
I noticed after I clicked it once when I click that same icon again it loads up quickly. I assume its just becuase linux cached it. Weird.
Its time to upgrade that old machine. I am buying a k7 this fall. Everything else should run fast and smooth.
It worked well on a P 166 with 32 MB RAM
I don't consider the application wizard to be a RAD tool anymore than the various skeleton builders I've used or created myself. They do speed things up a little, but if you look at mainstream RAD tools a app wizard really doesn't make he cut.
Use ssh. It will take care of your cookie handling and can encrypt your X traffic.
--
I have the same setup and KDE performs well...
I don't know what you did to your machine, but Gnome and KDE have about the same memory requirements, with KDE being a little bit faster. (Be sure you use the most recent versions! KDE 1.1.1 is better than 1.1).
Note that when using CORBA panel applets in Gnome, memory consumption can increase dramatically.
With a 486/8MB computer, I'm absolutely sure you won't get a decent response with either of them, anything else is bullsh*t.
This is mostly due to the fact that X itself is an enormous memory hog.
To answer your question: Memory requirements will increase with KDE 2 due to the Corba ORB (currently ~+5MB). Using big components like KOffice you'd better get 64 MB.
I cannot agree that X is efficient or flexible. I agree we should be very cautious about replacing it, but is definitely showing its age. It'll be interesting to see if the Berlin guys ever come out with anything useful - they do have some good ideas.
Most KDE developers seems to be in favor of single click, which I think is a pity. I wish there could at least be an option to allow double click, as this seems much more logical and flexible to me (one click selects, two clicks executes). Single click is much more prone to mistakes (especially when selecting multiple files).
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
Do they? Didnt know! I will try to change that.
Torsten Rahn
kdeartists-team
---
KDE 2 -- a new millennium a new desktop
Havoc could probably supervise the coordination but whenever something concrete happens Miguel jumps in, tells everyone what to do, and people get fed up. Look at the gnome-kde-list archive and the wm-spec archive for evidence of this.
It seems to me IDEs should be one of the most effective applications for open source development. A significant percentage of programmers want one on a variety of platforms, its users are mostly capable of improving it, and having an IDE lowers the barrier to new developers for projects.
SlickEdit looks pretty cool though, it's the first place I've seen intra-line file differencing as opposed to plain old line-by-line file differencing. I've been thinking of hacking a version of diff to have an option to do that, or perhaps a post-process filter on the diff output.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
Actually, it's not the clicking the causes RSI. It's the grabbing hold of the mouse, cutting off the blood supply. What we really need is a way to have KDE or Gnome/Englightenment completely *keyboard* driven if the user wants this. That would help a lot of us whose hands hurt. Minimise your mouse usage to maximise wrist life.
Damned trolls. Linux is Unix. Stop lying. Fuck the lawyers and their cert. We know whatever should smell as sweet should still be a rose, despite its name. Lawyers are the root of all evil.
Maybe he's thinking as a USER??
The idea of having 3.14 themes on your desktop maybe reasonable to anybody whose had the misfortune to see how X-Windows works, but to the average rest-of-population person it is simply silly. Why do you have to have one UI manager for the outsides the window, and one for the insides of each window? It's just plainly unintuitive, wasteful and very inconsistent from a UI persective.
If you need further convincing, take a look at how the Mac menus appear in KDE, and then try them under a different window manager (and see how they did them -- rather unimpressive isn't it). Nope. Sorry. That they got it to work at all in the braindamage we all know and love as X-Windows (or 'The X Window System' if you must) is something to be applauded.
So maybe he doesn't know what he's talking about. Then all the better for him, and all the worse for you!
John
John_Chalisque
NT did not have the 95UI until 4.0, about 3 years ago. NT looked like win3.1 before that.
I guess you haven't heard MS is releasing another OS base on the 9x kernel, have you ?
You are right about the last one, my statement
was subjective and was never meant to be more
than that.
But let me refrase my point: if you had one
server, you could hard code a good portion of
your communication protocol to speed things up.
I hope you do not claim that X protocol is as
efficient as a pipe.
When I said there'd be no reason for client
server architecture, I meant precisely that
the user would not have a choice of servers but
one server only. Bad wording on my part, I agree.
I still think that a web page stating flaws
in X is necessary. You could state what you think
are warts, and it could evolve in _your_
direction.
The Belin project looks like a neat idea, but the usefulness of a 3D desktop environment currently escapes me. Integrating 3D with the 2D desktop seems like a very good idea, given the 2D screens we all use.
A few years ago Apple produced a videotape called "The Moment of Discover" that was their view of the future of the UI that was pretty interesting. It was a minor evolution to what we are seeing today. It was based extensivly on drag and drop along with the manuplation of everything as a graphical entity.
What I think is going to happen is that we're going to end up with the Windows API running on top of a bare bones HAL. I don't think that's the best solution, but commercial entities will see that as a quick and easy transformation path. The momentum behind that type of solution will be hard to resist.
It's networked display capabilities... mean nothing at all to 99.9% of all computer users.
XWindows! After all it was good enough for Dad!
(Be sure you use the most recent versions! KDE 1.1.1 is better than 1.1).
humm.... I am still with the 1.0 series, thx for the tips, I will try a recent distro.
With a 486/8MB computer, I'm absolutely sure you won't get a decent response with either of them, anything else is bullsh*t. This is mostly due to the fact that X itself is an enormous memory hog.
To be more precise, I have tried a Gnome + WindowMaker installation and a full Kde 1.0 installation.
Morality of theseKDE uses the 'single-click paradigm' pretty consistently, which is IMHO a good thing. Once you get used to it, you won't want to miss it.
The double-click folks should try out KExplorer (now called Kruiser), which is a nice MS Explorer clone which behaves in the 'traditional' way.
X needs to move forward, but I'm not sure replacing X is the answer.. They need to extend new technolgies into X, and everything will be fine.. There is also GGI, which there are X servers for, which add alot more flexibility to the graphics systems..
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
1.1 has more features AND is much faster than 1.0
When I started developing on Linux, I searched down the whole 'net and tried about every IDE out there (Code Crusader, XEmacs, C-Forge, gIDE, etc..).
I stranded on KDevelop. It rocks. Being used to Delphi, Kdevelop is the Linux IDE which comes closest.
The slowness of X can generally be helped by device specific X servers like XiGraphics' acceleratedX. XF86_SVGA is not optimized for any particular board thus they all pretty much suck compared to their performance in Windows.
You're not that site's network admin, are you?
Ahh - My eye!
The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
> Memory requirements will increase with KDE 2
:))
> due to the Corba ORB (currently ~+5MB).
It's just nice to know that they are thinking about the memory requirements of the system by using a stripped down version of MICO. I know that an ORB is the only way to really improve KDE and KOffice is going to be one killer app because of it.
Iggy
Somebody needs to inject a bit of sanity to counter all the "looks great" posts...
I think KDE is awful from a user interface standpoint, and these new screenshots show it's not going to improve. Why? It tries way too hard to look and act just like Win95/98. KDE should be innovating, not imitating and adding useless eye candy (e.g. transparent terminals). (If they're going to imitate, at least they could imitate something with a better user interface than Win9x.)
I mean, I *really* don't want my web browser combined with my file manipulator. Why would KDE ever do that? Web browsers make lousy file managers. The only answer is that the KDE project cares more about making it look like Windoze than making a good interface, presumably because they think people won't switch from Windoze otherwise.
Gnome suffers from a lot of the same problems. I think so little of KDE and Gnome that I just shut them off and use plain-jane fvwm2 and do all my file maintenance chores from the shell. If a GUI interface isn't at least as good as the Macintosh Finder (which is creaky and ancient and poorly updated for the 90's, for Ghu's sake), why bother?
Someone says something "sucks" and it gets moderated up...
This is something that really impresses me about the KDE team. KDE2.0, even in pre-alpha stage, is so much more impressive stable than GNOME. There are definitely some issues to be worked out (like the fact that all of my icons aren't on the desktop, just in a small window on my screen) but there are some really impressive things going on especially with the KOffice suite. Now the thing is- is there public access via CVS or any other means to GNOME2.0? Is there even development going on with GNOME2.0? KDE is here to stay, and they've got a real road map- there's been work going on with KDE2.0 since 1.1 was released, and maybe even a little before that.... plus, have you seen the "GNOME Office suite"? There are at least three different word processors! Where's the coordination? I hate to bash GNOME (really, I do- I use GNOME plenty and I really like it) but they don't have as much of a future plan as KDE.
Also about the themes: I saw an earlier comment remarking about how they hoped the System style (themes are called "Styles" in KDE2.0) wasn't the default. No, it's not- the default is really impressive, and it's not a "theme" like for E or for GNOME. It's just a simple new way of making the desktop look and act a bit more futuristic. And also, about the System style itself: It is ten times more stable than any of the themes I've seen for E, save the default (BigClean) and ShinyMetal themes. The styles are really cool and not only that, but they also are functional. They work, which is more than I can say for some of the themes for the other desktop...
All in all, I'm pretty glad to be using Linux. The months ahead are looking better and better... and to the guy who wrote that in 5 years Linux will be the champion, I doubt that it will take that long.
Also, one last thing: Has anyone seen/used Windows 2000betaX©? Seems like the more rehashed Windows© gets, the more it looks like KDE... oh, yeah, and everybody who claims that KDE isn't as advanced as Windows95/98/NT has to remember: KDE is only at MajorVersion 1. Wait til WE get to version 4.0....
This is something that really impresses me about the KDE team. KDE2.0, even in pre-alpha stage, is so much more impressive stable than GNOME. There are definitely some issues to be worked out (like the fact that all of my icons aren't on the desktop, just in a small window on my screen) but there are some really impressive things going on especially with the KOffice suite. Now the thing is- is there public access via CVS or any other means to GNOME2.0? Is there even development going on with GNOME2.0? KDE is here to stay, and they've got a real road map- there's been work going on with KDE2.0 since 1.1 was released, and maybe even a little before that.... plus, have you seen the "GNOME Office suite"? There are at least three different word processors! Where's the coordination? I hate to bash GNOME (really, I do- I use GNOME plenty and I really like it) but they don't have as much of a future plan as KDE.
Also about the themes: I saw an earlier comment remarking about how they hoped the System style (themes are called "Styles" in KDE2.0) wasn't the default. No, it's not- the default is really impressive, and it's not a "theme" like for E or for GNOME. It's just a simple new way of making the desktop look and act a bit more futuristic. And also, about the System style itself: It is ten times more stable than any of the themes I've seen for E, save the default (BigClean) and ShinyMetal themes. The styles are really cool and not only that, but they also are functional. They work, which is more than I can say for some of the themes for the other desktop...
All in all, I'm pretty glad to be using Linux. The months ahead are looking better and better... and to the guy who wrote that in 5 years Linux will be the champion, I doubt that it will take that long.
Also, one last thing: Has anyone seen/used Windows 2000betaX©? Seems like the more rehashed Windows© gets, the more it looks like KDE... oh, yeah, and everybody who claims that KDE isn't as advanced as Windows95/98/NT has to remember: KDE is only at MajorVersion 1. Wait til WE get to version 4.0....
I don't need it -> it's useless to me -> there must
be an off switch for this option (either run time
or compile time or both).
Also, anyone who cares about privacy and security
will not connect any of their PCs to any network.
You can have a lowly peice of sh*t for networking
and do real work offline. Floppies, zips, CDs etc.
were created to facilitate info transport if
you absolutely have to xfer something, but
preferably leave your computers offline 100%.
Sorry about that.... ::slaps self in face:: d'oh!
Sorry ;-)
I personally prefer single click. I started experimenting with "buttons" on my Mac. I find it easier: rubberband to select (or click the name) and click the button to open.
Now with NT/IE 5.0, you don't even have to click to select, just pause over a file and it is selected. Hold shift to select multiple files or control to select non-contiguous files.
KDE's single click is going with the trend. It is easier and less confusing for a naive user. Lots of users that I work with do not know if they have double clicked fast enough. I see it all the time...users double click, waits 10 seconds and wonders why nothing happened and double clicks again.
Double click should be an option though: I've seen die-hard Mac and PC users double click URL links on an HTML page.
KDE is designed to be a users UI, and single click is the simplest and easiest UI (IMHO). I DO think that they should default close to be on the opposite side of maximize/minimize as on the Mac--Much superior (how many times have you accidentily clicked the X instead of maximize? How many times on a Mac?)
Features don't make bloatware, but poor coding and lots of depencies make bloatware--(modules, people they rock). You can moduluarly add features and not require them, unless the user wants them (think things like the kernel--adding a driver to the source, doesn't bloat the binary much--the Linux kernel binary is doubling in size with every release--for some people it actually get smaller (as it gets more efficent).
;-)
Why do people buy upgrades like Office 2000 or Office 97? 'cause people read the features list, and start drooling, I just got to have that wiz-bang feature! When I first heard of GTK+/ Enlightenment themes, I really drooled about. As did I drool over Office 98 when it came out... and this is an typical thing, people don't want to be using text editors from the 1960's to do day to day work. Sure, in some cases they would be much more efficent, but most people see the feature list with the Wizbang new version of Windows / Office and want it. Although, you look at the feature list of KDE 2.0/Koffice, and you start to wonder if you actually get more with KDE 2.0/Koffice then MS Office/Windows. And at a much better license and price.
> X is efficient,
*cough*bullshit*cough*
> What more could you want it to do?
Antialiasing, alpha blending, higher-level protocols (sending widgets over the wire, not just their shapes), coordinate transformations, resolution independence, device independence.
There you go.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
Since it was mentioned. kruiser can be found on
http://devel-home.kde.org/~kruiser/index.html
No, I am not, but on this server there are nearly 200 GB and I always get the full speed of my modem (128kBit/sek) and that every time so I think that it can't be /.`ed. :-)
Oh yes. Grand idea -- add to the cruft. You do realize, I hope, that no one will ever remove APIs from X. So the more you add to it, the larger, the cruftier, the more impossible to maintain or develop for it becomes.
I sincerely hope that that last screenshot that shows the "system" theme isn't the theme that kde uses out of the box. Lemme tell you a secret about themes:
They suck. They're hideous, garish, clashing, and make your entire professional body of work look like some 3L337 kiddie's toy. I hate them. Everyone I've shown them to sneers at them.
At least this is true for well over half of them (I have seen some nice ones, E's default theme these days is a nice one). If this is made the default KDE theme, I hope to god distributions will change it to something they can demo without embarrassment.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
Ok, I just have to second the advice that you switch to KDE1.1.1 or better to improve speed, but I'd also recommend trying WindowMaker + KFM (the KDE file manager). With WindowMaker you already have the dock, background manager, etc, so you don't need a panel or kbgndwm or anything like that. KFM with the new KDE 1.1.2 hi-color icons looks damn cool and it fills in that empty space on the left side of the screen (I use dock to the right, clip at the bottom) that always seemed so asymetrical.
Plus, KFM by itself only needs a few megs of memory.
--JZ
The "themesters" have no concept of elegance. I wonder if that carries over to their code.
You didn't rebuke my claim at all that according to his argument MicroSoft cannot be beaten.
It's in the CVS.
It is turning out real nice, but in this early stage (there are LOTS of new features and changes) it is still quite unstable. Many bugs, and it moves slow. Not all of it, but the KControl Panel thing is the worst offender, and always has been. Oh yeah, I am speaking of the snapshot I downloaded on Friday, so I mean the new stuff.
Corndog
I haven't really had that many problems with Netscrape lately. It's of course still moderately awful, but 4.51 only crashes occasionally (maybe once every day or two). The only problem I have is that it obviously has memory leaks, because one time I took a look at it's resources, and it had grabbed 192 megs of memory for itself. I didn't notice until I couldn't open a new app.
I've noticed that it became a LOT more stable once I upgraded from Suse6.0 -> 6.1. I'm not sure why that would be, but it was. Maybe some problem library netscape depended on started behaving? No clue really. I'm reasonably happy it, and just waiting for Mozilla to become usable.
Hi
I've wondered a lot how these places create such cool looking icons. What sofware package? Where do they get the clipart? Can I create some like that for my website and not have to be bothered with 'for your own personal use' licences?
All Qt had to do was make the drawing methods for the paint routines virtual. If you don't use a themed style this is just as efficent as Qt1.x.
Run Ktop. Mine shows that total memory consumption with X, KDE, and 3-4 small apps running is about 24 MB. I have a Celery 300A with 64 MB and much of the rest of my RAM is used for buffering and caching. So I presume that it would run quite happily in 32 MB. I won't be surprised if 2.0 with KOffice uses more, because of MICO.
:)
No matter how much programs I start I've never seen a single byte getting swapped. But I don't complain
Not the snappiest performance in the world but my laptop runs KDE fine. Maybe you have other programs running which are eating killing performance?
Not the snappiest performance in the world but my laptop runs KDE fine. Maybe you have other programs running which are killing performance?
I'm sorry mr. anonymous but you are mistaken. Last time I checked there was indeed a plan to convert GTK themes to KDE (most likely just writing a GTK-Style theme which could read the pixmap themes). But also, there was a plan that when you run a gnome app, KDE would take the current theme, convert it to a pixmap based theme, and tell the GNOME app to use that theme. It's a bit of a hack, but it will work.
-matt
This "GUI Designer" theme building program, really excites me, and I hope it will live up to it's name by building powerful, quick and useful themes.
As a long time Kaliedoscope (a themeing program for the Mac OS) user, I often used a themeing program known as Kdesigner, which made building themes, relatively easy (well, not that easy, but it wasn't rocket science either).
Well, this should lead to dozens (literally) of both good and bad themes for KDE, but since everybody will have a choice this will be a good thing.
They will try hard to ship KOffice in the same time frame as KDE 2.0, since they both need quite a bit of work (we are looking at around January '00 from what I have heard).
KOffice, according to what I have been reading is starting to have some stablity work done on it already, and doing some hookups in some of the apps. True KSpread and Kformula need some work, but KWord and KPresentor look as they will be well ready by the time of KDE 2.0.
KImageShop sounds nice, as does Killustrator. These also seem like important KDE-2.0 desktop apps.
That may be a issue of how well the X Server supports your hardware (including things like Hardware Acceloration) -- most X Servers aren't good on all hardware -- for example XFree86 isn't the fastest or the best on several video cards.
What that means, is that Windows 95 has better video drivers then XFree86 (or what X Server you use) for your hardware.
Yes, some people with certain X Servers claim that they get far better preformance with X then with Windows 95.
When will we get better X Servers? When people convience there graphic card makers to support X development, by putting teams of people to improve things like XFree86. If enough people do this, your graphic's card vendor will feel required to improve it's XFree86 preformance.
I can attest to that. KDE and GNOME seem to work pretty good on a machine with only 32 megs of RAM.
If your machine doesn't have at least 32 megs of RAM, you can probaly still run KDE/GNOME but the preformance will be slightly slower (and likely unusable).
But the fact is, RAM is cheap. Virtually anybody can afford a machine with at least 64 megs of RAM, alot of new machines come with around 128 megs.
When people say Linux can run on a 386 with 4 megs of RAM, just remember they are referring to a min. equiped setup -- just the basics, with no X or anything.
He said that KFM was fast. Geez...
Corndog
The pager is still in beta and should be part of kde 1.2 wich is about 2 to 4 weeks away. There is a pic of it at the screenshots section of kde's homepage at www.kde.org. I have never tried it so I dont know how good it is.
I love watching jaws drop when I pop up HP OpenView (Motif based) on my KDE themed desktop. With fonts, colors and window decorations all the same, it looks very much like KDE OpenView!
Oooh.. I hate the pause. it takes a second - I'm not being sarcastic, it's bloody annoying when I could be moving faster around. Waiting for a second isn't cool kids.
Lets see, Word Perferct, Koffice, Corel, Star Office. Compapred to any one of these MS Office ,IS bloatware, any flippin' Office suite that takes 4, count 'em 4 CDs to ship, could be anything but bloatware.
You sound like an idiot! Have you tried these programs? They don't have nearly as number of helpful features as Office. Their UI is not as nice (although each have their plus sides), Koffice (oh please. I compiled the latest build. sheesh), Star Office (oh god no) and Word Perfect (for linux) are as SLOW AS HELL. They each crash more then a Win31 server would if it were running slashdot during a flameout!
Have you EVER tried to get someone to use a different UI, or convince a secretary that uses WIN95 that Linux is better ?
You speak as if it is the secretary who is foolish for not using Linux. How is Linux better for a secretary then Windows? I can not think of a single reason! Is it faster? Nope, not office apps. Is it more stable? Nope, not it's office apps OR it's GUI. Is it as user friendly? HA! Don't even get me started! Is it cheaper? Yes. Do secretaries pay for their OS? No!
For those who are wondering: read my above comments which incited this attack. I use Linux, I hack for Linux, I love Linux. But I also an not so foolish as to follow the sheeps ass directly in front of me. It is you people (whom make such pathetic attacks) who will end up ruining a fine hacker OS. MS can just sit back and watch us eat ourselves to death.
Corndog
Having two GUIs is great, except when there is an app for one and not for the other. Well, you could run it, but... isn't this all about looks anyways?
Corndog
As far as not liking the theme itself, feel free to design your own. KDE will come with a widget theme designer (soon to be in CVS).
Look here:
http://www.de.kde.org/webmirrors.html
I don't know if it will even be included in KDE2.0. This, along with the other themes in the screenshot were created on the fly mostly for testing the KThemeStyle code as I was writing it. Once the GUI designer is out we will have both users and artists working on themes, and we will probably have a contest to see what is included.
mosfet@kde.org
The theme code is small, fast, and rather elegant. If you have suggestions or patches I would be glad to review them, although this probably won't happen since I doubt you can code...
mosfet@kde.org
Since Window Maker supports the KDE-Hints, this is a great compromise. I also have the panel switched on.
Just replace "kwm&" by "wmaker&" in the startkde script. Works fine for me.
Konrad
Yeah, kde and gnome tend to slow things down. I got rid of them and tried a few others, like fvwm, windowmaker, etc. They were all much faster than windows.
With Berlin you get antialiasing, alpha blending, higher-level protocols, coordinate transformations, resolution independence, device independence and much more.
I am already giving my X its first farewell kisses, Berlin will sure knock it out once it is usable.
P.S. Some people think Berlin is a 3D-Desktop, it is not! Quote from the FAQ about the use of OpenGL:
Anyone got kdevelop mirrors? Server seems to be massively /.ed.
The only complaint I have about KDE is the panel app. My reason might seem lame to some, but I don't like being limitted to one panel. In Gnome (I use KDE, btw) you can stick panels all over and if you use WM, you can stick little wharfs(?) all over too. It is not always useful, but I have found that in KDE I have filled up my panel, ran an app that goes into the tray, and I can't see it because an icon is in the way. And on top of that, there are more icons I want to put in the panel! Well, that was my only real gripe with KDE. Besides that, it can do anything my little heart desires.
But I wouldn't say it "sucks so much."
Corndog
Wow, that looks nice!
I was looking at Kdevelop last night. Downloaded it even but haven't tried it out yet. Looks great though.
This is gonna be a good year, I can just feel it.
KDE is great, but it will not destroy Microsoft. Microsoft makes more then Windows. That's where their power comes from. As long as huge awesome apps like Office (don't tell me it's 'bloatware' and shit, you stupid zealots. Only hackers still use text-editors.) need all of Windows special Win32 features, Microsoft will sell Windows. And worse then that, as soon as programming KDE or Gnome or any Linux thing stops being fun (if Linux becomes #1), everyone will stop coding for it. Some new little OS will catch hackers' eyes and it will become the Next Big Thing.
Guys this is all just realism. We do this Linux thing because it's a hobby. Us hackers are the type of people who like to know what no one else knows. We like to have secret weapons to show off if need be. If everyone uses Linux, then what is the point anymore?
And even if you are right... 5 to 7 years??? Come on! What we know of user interfaces will be NOTHING like right now in 5 to 7 years! If anything, we will sit and have conversations with our computers. I know I don't want to be looking at some dumb colorful icon while I chat with my machine. Each UI serves a purpose, and KDE will either fall or change into something that is no longer what we know of KDE.
Go ahead and argue, but this is how things always turn out. Shit. That's quite a comment! I don't think I have ever posted so much at once!
Corndog
Nice to see I'm not alone.
Corndog
My english is not very good so you have to forgive my spelling in this comment and my previous original comment as well but I was refering to microsofties as in windows users who have nuetral feelings about ms and just use computers for work. I prefer ms office and I think its a great product but alot of ms office fans hate windows for obvious reasons. I also mentioned that kde will appeal to new unix users and cs students who want to play with there machines and not learn months and months about emacs and config files and so on. It took me 6 months to learn unix on my own and I like the intergrated feel of apps working together when I do work and I wish kde was there when I first used linux. I admit intergration is not important with servers and program hackers and that is why unix lacked in this but kde will help bring consumer apps and consumer users to linux and unix.
......"we are buy IBM"....or "We only buy soundbalsters because software is written for it" or all gone. MY hope is that ms office will continue but windows will jsut be another os in the computer field rather then "The OS in the computer field" which it is today.
Kde and gnome are the only 2 projects working to solve this intergration problem and gnome seems a little to complex and cluttered for new users and it has major stability problems in its current state. GTK was designed to run gimp and not a whole desktop. IF gmc and gtk are rewritten and all the complexity from the menus removed then gnome might get there. For example if you click with your right mouse button on the panel, you be loaded with commands and options like adding things globally or locally. How is the average joe suppose to know this? He just wants to add an app on the toolbar and thats all he cares about.
Kde is a little bit slow and corporate looking but its getting alot better. I also highly doubt that microsofts next windows will be that different on the ui issue. Ms is notariously known for slow shipping dates and overhyped products that really only minor upgrades. I am supprised it took ms 3 years to write windows98. It doesnt looke that much different from windows95 and IE.
KDE is developing at such a fast pace that I would not be supprised if kde could outdue windows techically in the future. MS will still be around but as soon as java and odbc for kde wich are in alpha get ported to kde then all the app developers could just port there apps to linux with ease from windows. I can't wait for the new odobc drivers.
Ms will always be around like IBM is and crative labs are with there soundblaster line but the
Few minor nits. First off KDE 1.0 was released over a year ago, you are probally thinking of GNOME, which I think was at 0.3 around a year ago. Second, KDE 1.1.2 (not 1.2) is more than a month off. I think it's closer to two at the moment.
-matt
you are too stupid.
you want one theme that will work on Gnome and E at the same time? what have you been smoking? Do you even know what you are talking about?
Its spelt "L-I-N-U-X", but pronunced as "Free Beer"
When is Linux going to learn how to anti-alias fonts, similar to what SmoothType (" http://kaleidoscope.net/greg/smoothtyp e.html") does for the Mac?
Yup, the server is having a bit of trouble today. Too much good publicity ;) Try http://fara3.cs.uni-potsdam.de/~smeier/kdevelop_ho me/ for a mirror. Please, please, report bugs so that KDev 1.0 non-beta will be as clean as possible! --JZ
First, I personally do not need networking and I suspect that a lot of
home users (i.e. desktop users) will not need it either. Yet I cannot
turn the networked architecture off and switch to something more
direct and efficient and with fewer components communicating between
themselves. Without networking, there's no reason to have a client-server
architecture, I suspect all of stand-alone X desktop functionality can be
written as one file for maximum speed and efficiency. Maybe then mere
mortals could compile X without excedrin. A networked version is only good
as an option.
Second, I hope someone starts a page dedicated to pointing out what's wrong
with X. This comes up many times over and there needs to be an up-to-date
X critique. If nothing else, it'd help X evolve in the right direction.
Does anyone know if the KDE and Gnome guys have agreed on a common IDL interface? It's great to have two CORBA based desktops, I just hope that we can mix and match the applications.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
RAD/Visual GUI building out of tons of features. Enough said.
Are older KDE 1.1X apps going to be compatible, or is an upgrade path necessary?
In one of the new KDE screenshots, I noticed that a terminal window had a translucent background (i.e. you could see the background through it). I'm pretty sure I've seen this feature in Enlightenment, but is it possible (easily) to get it with current builds of KDE?
For more information, click here.
So many improvements have been made to the whole OS in the last year that linux is finally being seen as a potentially viable desktop OS. X is good, but it isn't good enough to form the basis for a desktop OS. I'm suprised that none of the current desktop groups are looking to replace it, because if they don't, someone like Be, Amiga, Apple or Microsoft is going to do it. It will be proprietary and the winner of this competition will form the basis of the next (or reigning) great monopoly.
If your going to say that consumers (no not consumers like you, the ones who simply use the computer to play games or browse) are going to care if the GUI is free [as in freedom]. They will not.
KDE has been easier than Windows for about a year now already... where have you been?
Will GTK (gnome) and KDE themes be compatible or are there any plans for them to be?
I think competition in the desktop environments is great and some people may prefer coding in GTK and others may prefer Qt but for the end user who may not have much experience would like to set the theme once and then have the theme applied to both GTK and Qt apps. This will mean that they can use their favourite desktop environment but still have the same look and feel. At the moment the motif (Netscape) apps look different from the GTK apps (the GNOME utilities, GIMP, etc) and the KDE apps.
There's nothing much we can do about motif but it's use is decreasing so it's not too much a concern but having the same themes between GTK and Qt is the way to go.
--
1.1 also had some warning about "security hole in libmedia.so, so KDE's system sounds are turned off by default." If this were fixed, it'd be excellent--the standard system speaker beep gets really annoying. I also noticed that the old kvt doesn't seem to be on the panel. Have they finally managed to get konsole working correctly?
And is there really a need for kfm to be able to run Java? It'd be cool, yes, but probably of limited utility unless you used kfm as a Web browser...
Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the universe.
I am running KDE at the office, on a P120 and it does not come up quite as fast as my P2-300 running NT, but it is within a second or two. Sounds more like a probalem with the install, not the program itself.
I guess I didn't express myself clear enough. Imagine that 'you' is a software company that would like to embrace and extend the source code without giving away theirs. With GPL 2.0 this is suposedly impossible. But if a future version of it appears which contains a legal backdoor than the company in question could take advantage of it.
Is this a danger only I am able to see or is it just my imagination?
"Xlib has served as the basis for Athena, Motif, Openlook, GTK, and QT interfaces. What more could you want it to do?"
First point: Every one of the GUI's you mention is crap. (Particularly Motif, but I digress.)
Second point: Openlook was first implemented on NeWS, not X. Unfortunately, Openlook was so butt-ugly and clumsy that it killed off NeWS, which was a brilliant piece of work.
As for what I want X to do, I want it to follow the OS/2 Presentation Manager and Vision into a well-earned oblivion.
Why can't we just get OpenGL talking directly to the display hardware, and take it from there? OpenGL does 2d just as well as it does 3d...
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Not to take away anything from any of the other free software projects...but these guys truly amaze me; they are taking on Microsoft, not with words, but with deeds.
--
This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
Ok now, I'm not a lawyer but I am stunned every time I see this because it appears not only in KDE but elsewhere as well. I think GNU GPL is very well thought out and it was it that made the revolution possible. I don't have any reasons to think that its next versions won't be even better but theoretically anything is possible.
So, my question is: Isn't it absurd to allow your product to be used under a license which isn't created yet? I mean, the developper can only hope that the next version will keep the free spirit.
If you allow a bug to crawl into your code you can kill it afterwards and then release a subsequent version without the bug. Everyone will start to use the new version to avoid the bug. If, however, there turns out to be a hole in some future version of the GPL, all software under such loose license would be possible to be sucked from that hole. No subsequent version would be able to cure that because it is the user that decides which version of the GPL to use.
According to your logic MicroSoft will never be replaced. Not a very nice view of the future...
KDE is great, but it will not destroy Microsoft. Microsoft makes more then Windows. That's where their power comes from. As long as huge awesome apps like Office (don't tell me it's 'bloatware' and shit, you stupid zealots. Only hackers still use text-editors.) need all of Windows special Win32 features, Microsoft will sell Windows.
Have you ever heard of Corel Word Perfect? Star Office? Applix thinggie?... No not quite as good as MS Office, but good enough for most things. And things like AbiWord are improving. -- Thats the thing about Linux and it's apps, it's always IMPROVING faster than MS-Stuff. BTW: Office IS bloatware! =P
And worse then that, as soon as programming KDE or Gnome or any Linux thing stops being fun (if Linux becomes #1), everyone will stop coding for it. Some new little OS will catch hackers' eyes and it will become the Next Big Thing.
No. This is where you're totally wrong. The reasons hackers want to code for Linux are not it's lack of usage, they're the fact that it's easy to develop on and it's open source. --- Popularity will only promote commercial app development, not discourage Open Source "hacker" app development
Guys this is all just realism. We do this Linux thing because it's a hobby. Us hackers are the type of people who like to know what no one else knows. We like to have secret weapons to show off if need be. If everyone uses Linux, then what is the point anymore?
Huh? No. For most of us (I think) that was never the point (or mabie it was, but it isn't now). The point is to be using the best, most expandable, O/S out there. Right now, Linux is it.
And even if you are right... 5 to 7 years??? Come on! What we know of user interfaces will be NOTHING like right now in 5 to 7 years! If anything, we will sit and have conversations with our computers. I know I don't want to be looking at some dumb colorful icon while I chat with my machine. Each UI serves a purpose, and KDE will either fall or change into something that is no longer what we know of KDE.
You could be right, you could be wrong. I personally will frequently prefer to be using a combo of combo of all the possible I/O meathods from me to my computer over using just any one I/O method. I have no idea what computing will be like in 7 years, but KDE will probably contribute. (As to how much...)
Go ahead and argue, but this is how things always turn out. Shit. That's quite a comment! I don't think I have ever posted so much at once!
Always? In all the previous times when a kick ass Open Source GUI/E tried to compete with a more popular propriatory GUI/E...
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
When i say proprietary, i mean a extension of the common protocol for all ORBs (IIOP) that is implemented only by ORBit, and which isn't part of any RFC or standard. I'm sorry, i didn't want to mean "proprietary" as a "closed" protocol.
--
Memory fault -- brain fried
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
It was commented out of the cf's due to not enough people to maintain it. Since it won't be in binaries it's good as dead for now.
I don't know if it will be finished and out of beta in time for KDE 2.0, but the KImageShop (KImage's big brother) is coming along. It will be a full image processing program. It uses OpenParts and Corba for additional filters, plugins, tools, etc. It will even use native GIMP plugins!
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
I came across the The Y Window System awhile back. Seems to be more average-user oriented then X anyway. Has direct hardware access and all that sort of stuff. Its developement speed is less than ideal though. Anybody ever fool around with it? I am curious about your experiences.
ul|tma -At least we all use linux-
Is there a FAQ or how-to on getting KDE working under Irix? I've got a spare SGI Indy workstation that's begging me to do something with it, maybe that'd be a fun weekend project.
Can't seem to get through to find a FAQ/Howto myself, everything KDE'ish is slashdotted!
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
You are so right, soon KDE and Linux will be a big dog, and I mean a really big dog. It is getting harder and harder to get the name recognition that so motivated developers a while ago. But is this the death of KDE or linux?
~ ^~
no...
eventually it will be a coloborative effort of many money making companies. Already IBM, SGI (way to go SGI!), Corel, and other companies are putting there thumbs in the plumb pie. It was something I saw soon to happen about a year ago.
In the early ranching days, to make a few bucks ranchers would release a throuroghbred out into the wild to "improve the breed" of local mustangs. Then they'd go collect the children and sell them off. Not only did the Thourough bred improve the mustangs, but the resultant children were more resiliant and survivable!
That is about what I see the big companies doing now. KDE and linux and Gnome will all benefit. No one wants one person to control "the Ring". They all will soon see this as a way of getting all the economic benefits of monopolizing, without sacrificing survivability, or independance. They will all contribute.
And yes, we will find a new toy, and soon that toy will grow up the same way. kind of makes you feel good inside.
^~~^~^^~~^~^~^~^^~^^~^~^~~^^^~^^~~^~~~^~
www.kde.org seems slashdotted..
-Tom
Konsole in CVS supports translucency.
kde2shots
The answer is simple. Most of us used GIMP. And heres how to do it:
d y.png
d y.jpg
If youre really smart take an icon from the most recent version of KDE. Scale it up to 44x44,repair the black lines and then paint like youve never painted before. Your aim should be to make KDE one of the most beautiful desktops out there just by painting this one icon. -- Thats all --no magic behind it!
But these screenshots just show the top of the iceberg concerning icons. Have a look here:
ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/icons/eyecan
or here:
ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/icons/eyecan
These icons will be shipped with the next KDE-release. It will contain a complete set of icons of this quality. Ooops no: there will be even two sets that will actually look like twins: One measuring 32x32pixels and one measuring 48x48pixels. And you can switch between these two: You can choose which set to use for kpanel and which for your desktop.
If youre really curious concerning the icons you might want to try the most recent 1.x-snapshots:
ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/snapshots/1.1.2pre/
They will contain most of these icons in about a week.
Torsten Rahn
kde-artists-team
------------------------
The GUI in penguin is pronounced KDE
According to a post from 22 july, the estimated release date was about 4 weeks from then - unless it gets pushed back again.
Also, according to third-hand reports I've heard, they've decided to release it as 1.2, not 1.1.2. Those reports could be wrong (actually, I hope they are - 1.1.2 isn't radically different from 1.1.1), but who knows.
Host your own websites, anywhere!
www.at.kde.org/kde2shots.html