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Diamond and RIAA finally settle lawsuits
Rahga writes "This quietly-released and vaguely worded press release says that Diamond and RIAA finally settled all pending litigation, with words on Diamond vowing support for SDMI. Now record execs everywhere can sleep safely again. " Anyone know any more details?
Things to make you say hmmmmm.
Free music is the way to go. Who cares if I can't hear Celene Dion or Mariah Carey ?? The problem here is that people are whining "I won't be able to hear my favourite artist on mp3 because the RIAA wants to protect their work by using proprietary music encoding". Well guess what ? Don't listen. If the artist you enjoy won't release their work in the format you desire, why are you still listening ? The sad fact is that the person who owns the copyright gets to decide on the method of distribution and they mostly choose the kind which will squeeze the most money out of you.
If you really want to hear certain artists or certain songs which are only available under this new format, well then you've got to play their game and shell out the money for the appropriate equipment and downloads. Just like if you want to run Microsoft Word. Otherwise - find an alternative. Support the musicians that acknowledge that you have rights as music consumers. If you download a song and store it using your resources IT'S YOUR SONG. Same as GNU is your software.
It's darwinism, folks. The formats you support are the ones which will survive. If you don't take any shit, it's much less likely they'll try and give you any.
If I'm ever going to take mp3s with me, I can just burn them to a cdw or cdrw since my car doesn't have a MP3/Radio. By the time it becomes affordable to install a MP3/Radio to my car, Pentium class laptops might cost about the same. A Linux MP3 Jukebox will work nicely for me..
Don't Minidiscs use compression also? I heard that the first gen Minidiscs had horrid sound quality, and while they sound much better now, they still aren't CD quality. I haven't actually been able to test this, so can anyone verify?
Minidiscs only hold 74 minutes per disc. An mp3 player already exists than can use IBM's 340-meg hard drive, which can hold nearly 6 hours of 128kbps mp3s.
Also, minidisc sound quality isn't that great. It uses lossy compression, just like mp3 does. If you purchase mp3s over the internet, then record them to a minidisc, it sounds horrible, since you're going through two different levels of lossy compression.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I've heard (and can think of myself) plenty of arguments why SDMI will fail.
But are there any good articles that can even go half-way toward convincing me that it'll succeed?
Even the most convincing argument I've seen-- Record companies can release their music only in SDMI format-- isn't really feasible because of the huge installed base of CDs.
The only way I see this succeeding is having it be part of DVD-Audio, but that's very far off from widespread adoption.
I did, I want you to quote me where it says "After Phase II you will still be able to play all illegally or legally obtained MP3 files."
I don't think you can find it, they have stepped around it quite nicely.
Another quote:
3Q: How does SDMI benefit consumers?
A: SDMI participants share a common goal: a satisfying consumer experience. With the major music, consumer electronics and technology companies supporting SDMI, consumers will have access to a variety of SDMI-compliant music, software and hardware. "
Sorry I just don't buy it. Limiting choice and keeping prices high are not a "satisfying consumer experience". And that's why they'll lose, I won't buy it, he won't buy it, and hopefully most people won't buy it, and it'll die. Find the music you like, listen to the music you like, buy the music you like. Don't let anyone tell you what kind of music you like. It's about choice. It's about freedom.
+&x
You're exactly right. They're assuming that everyone will "upgrade" to SDMI and mp3 will just disappear. Mp3 is out, and no matter what they do, they won't be able to kill it. Players are open source. Encoders are open source. If there's a way to kill either or both, I'd sure like to see it.
In the future, you'll have to buy your music in SDMI format? Fine. Someone'll buy it, record it as mp3, and post it right back on the 'net. End result? Nothing's changed.
the best encoder i've ever used is the "Fhg Radium MP3 codec v1.263" .. its also the fastest.. (win95/nt only though, and its actually considered 'warez', but oh well) i've encoded at 128kbs and it sounds like an exact copy. its kinda funny that the warez group modified the codec and made it better
That must be a modified Fraunhofer encoder, right? Hmm. Sounds interesting. The regular Fraunhofer encoder, even though everyone states how great it is, frequently gave me a warble effect in music encodings. Is this what they fixed?
Ok. How about "The only content SDMI-compliant devices will not play is illegally
copied SDMI music beginning in Phase 2." It's answer 7, paragraph 1, sentence 2. Don't misunderstand; I dislike SDMI as well. I find it outrageous to be expected to pay $15 for a product that costs under a dollar to press and package. It's doubly offensive when you consider how little of that profit margin actually goes back to the artist -- most of it stays firmly in the hands of the artist's label. MP3's are a huge threat to this style of extortion. Diamond's not so dumb as to totally pass up this market by disabling the very feature that the product was built around in the first place.
And if I didn't say that yet. I have now.
-RMB
This is the part where I felt they were stepping around the issue. It doesn't say what it will play, only that it won't play "illegally copied SDMI music". Which is basically any MP3 or other file that doesn't meet their guidelines, at least from me reading (and knowing that they want to crush MP3)
If you read it, you'll also notice that it is a software upgrade needed to play SDMI files after phase II, so you have to software upgrade your hardware to keep it working. This gives TOTAL control back to these companies. Also there is no mention of what you can or cannot play in phase III or IV. Since they are using a mandatory (if you want to keep playing new music) upgrade process, additional more restrictive phases are very likely.
SDMI is bad. (but only if you're into consumer rights)
+&x
Maybe you don't keep up with the current wintel compatible subnotebook development. My libretto already can player mp3 pretty good. And because the mouse buttons are on the outside, I don't even have to open the lib for "next song". Granted the 2-pound weight is a little bit on the heavy side. Here is a link for libretto 1100, note the remote that have every function of a rio.
2 801.htm
i ndex_j.htm
:)
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/1999_06/pr
http://www2.toshiba.co.jp/pc/catalog/ff/ff1100/
Just have some imagination, in the next 2 years, the keybroadless miniature notebook will come out. The first one will have the size of a old game boy, the new ones will shrink shinner. The touch screen will be supported. (touchscreen is cheap, there's a $900 subnotebook already support it) And the keybroad (foldable?) and other stuff will all connect via USB.
The highend model will have a type II slot, so you can run a solid state hard drive on it, with screen turn off, you can run it for 8-12 hours. When the next generation of keybroadless mininotebook appear, it will be light enough for a portable music player. This is a decisive barrior-breaker for any RIAA lame attempt to shut down mp3. Even if Rio can't make mp3 players anymore, people who can afford it will be able to play mp3 on win9X/linux/winCE platform. And some day palm XX will too.
CY
It is the same thing, most people would contribute to the artist, even if it were not manditory, because they feel the dialog, the artistic creations are worth the contribution.
It is the same reason people give to charity.
Control is never good, once an idea has a string tied to it, or rather the majority of people think it has a string attached to it, those strings can be used to lure, to fish, to steal, to hoard, to control. They may also be sold, bought, and collected, twined into ropes, ropes to bind all enemies, to bind individuals, to bind a culture.
If people are not honest, then they can never be thwarted. It is the very fact of honesty of the majority that makes the culture survive, it is that most are honest that the fiction of copyright, the fiction of the ownership if ideas/artistic works, is obeyed. No government, no legistlation can EVER go strongly against the general will of the entire populace. The only way GPL, copyright, or anything else can be 'Enforced' is if the public is willing to let it happen to them.
So ending copyright, or signifigantly shortening it to a few years, loses nothing, the same people will still duplicate, the same people will continue to purchase, except it will not be a monopoly (though many would still purchase the 'official' or 'artist-sanctioned' version.) The gains are all you mention, artists are not stuck and screwed by publishers, the public is enriched like never before.
Let's hope they haven't sold out. It would suck for the RIAA to get their way once again.
Whoa people, put away the tar and feathers. Let's slap another spin on this.
Diamond: "So we supports this SDMI dohiky of yours, you'll shut the hell up?"
RIAA: "Yes, Yes, we be happy!"
Diamond: Thinks to himself. "We put this SDMI crap in RIO and Jar Jar here goes away. When SDMI turns toes up, we covered because we never remove mp3 support. If SDMI does go over, then we covered there too."Cheaser cat grin. "Deal!"
I don't know if anyone else read this but I never saw any place where it was mentioned that Diamond had to remove support for mp3.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
I would like to know from an actual user of the product if you really can not swap flash cards. The Eiger Labs site said that the RIO formats the cards in such a way that it can't happen.
If there is software that can let you download MP3 files great! I just reported on what I learned regarding "official" product and it's software. While add-on software is generaly a good thing, if you can do it directly out of the box, that is even better.
Good luck on your flash card test.
Where did you see that?
BOSE doesn't always make good equipment, but Grundig makes really high quality stuffs.
i'm thinking of buying a minidisc player and a optical out soundcard. but i can't find any sound card with optical out (TOSLINK) and linux support.
Anyone?
here here, I agree with you wholeheartedly. MP3's bite, with that much compression, you *have* to believe the quality is going to be inferior to CDs. My feeeling for Minidisc are kinda mixed, they work kinda like JPEG files, lossy compression, but loss stuff normal human sensories can not pick up anyway. What I am really pissedf about is where is my DAT! Oh wait, they they fit and fart anywy...
If I recall, as Dick Solomon from Third Rock once said 'hah! CDs, when will these human realise the superior sound quality of vinyl?'
"I just can't sit while people are saying nonsense in a meeting without saying it's nonsense" J Watson, Sci Am 288:(4)51
There appears to be a large number of misconceptions here regarding the nature of SDMI and the ramifications of the Rio supporting it. Wah's take in particular is in error. In ~18 months, SDMI's "Phase 2" will begin. After this point, SDMI-compliant players will no longer play copied SDMI-secured audio. There's nothing to stop it from still playing all your favorite MP3's, illegally obtained or not.
Don't misunderstand, it's not good that Diamond supports SDMI with the Rio. By doing so, they help to create a market for SDMI, and thus legitimize it. I'm sure they also paid in quite a bit of money to the RIAA to support SDMI. However, SDMI doesn't mean squat if you don't use it. Even if the only format you can find a particular piece of music in is SDMI-secured, there's nothing stopping you from converting it to MP3.
Your take is in error. In ~18 months, Phase 2 of SDMI will begin, and your [insert PMP here] will stop playing any SDMI-secured files that have not been legitimately distributed. All your favorite old MP3's will still work just fine. You might want to check out the SDMI FAQ for more information.
Coppola approched the mafia and they asked that he not refer to them as the mafia. If the mafia asks politely, you might want to at least consider it.
Yes, the theft of intellectual property is something that anyone interested in the freedom of information should be concerned about. If you are really interested in allowing artists (or programmers) to distribute thier wares without a middleman, then you want to make it technologically possible for them to do so and still make a profit. I cannot imagine that it is in my best interest to have all songs released in an unprotected form, because then no one would be able to make money from them, not studios, and not artists. Rather, if you can combine payment for IP with "friction-free" distribution, everybody benefits. Think how cheaply artists could sell albums if they were able to attain widespread distribution *without* a studio helping. Of course, studios are skilled in music distribution and promotion, which they would continue to do, but with the threat that any artist could at any time begin doing his or her own promotion and distribution. It will be interesting to see how the balance of power shifts...
Walt
The assertion that copying music is piracy uses the same logic that M$, Adobe and their ilk use against open source software.
The way I see the open source movement is that
programmers are paid for programming not for selling copies of programs. So if a company wants a new DB it pays a programmer to write it. Eric Raymond says that the vast majority of programmers don't make their living from selling copies of their code.
The same with musicians... they should be paid to play music not to sell copies of recordings.. the way concerts are done nowadays a (popular) musician could make 6 figures
on one concert.
The way that the music industry works now means that only a very small subset of musicians can make a good living out of music. This mp3 way of doing things means that smaller bands/artists could publicise their work to get people to their concerts so they could make money.
All we need is a mechanism to find the "good" musicians from the "bad" so we don't have to wade our way thru 1e6 tracks of cr@p:)
Don't buy a Rio. Buy a Nomad. They have come with the same amount of flash RAM (64 MB) and cost less ($220 vs $243) than the Rio. And Creative hasn't signed on with RIAA. I really do love capitalism.
"Any decent 4ack should be..." -- 4ack translates to "Aack" I suspect you mean "h4ck." Someone please kill me, I just picked a nit with someone's 31337-sp33k!
Don't you, or shouldn't you, get disbarred for this? Yes, we countersued on grounds that we knew were wrong, but we were just trying to vigourously defend ourselves
Nope. You get disbarred for lying about a fact. You get to argue for an opinion or interpretation of the law whether you believe in it or not.
Consider the defense of "pleading the alternative" in a criminal trial, for example. Prosecution claims defendant stole it. Defendant PLEADS that he didn't take it, he gave it back, he didn't sell it, he didn't spend the money, etc. That's perfectly legal, because it's the prosecution's job to prove all the elements beyond a reasonable doubt, and the defense's to poke a hole in any one necessary element.
Now if the defendant gets on the stand and TESTIFIES that he didn't take it and he gave it back, or any other claims that are mutually exclusive and therefore one must be a lie, he HAS broken the law and is in deep kimchee. Ditto lawyers who make a false claim of fact.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
>Who was it who said SDMI will go the way of DIVX? I believe that'd be everybody who's thought about SDMI for more than two seconds
I have been trying to compare the 3 MP3 portable players I have heard about and found some interesting information.
There are 3 players, the eiger labs MPMAN F20, the RIO and the Creative NOMAD.
The RIO allows you to download not only MP3 files but other files into its memory for storage. However you can NOT download MP3 files from the RIO to your PC. Also you can not load a flash card with music and let your friend listen to it in his RIO. Each RIO card is formated for that machine only.
The MPMAN F20 allows you to store all sorts of files, but also does not allow MP3 files to be downloaded from the flash card to your PC. However, unlike the RIO, you can swap flash cards with other MPMAN users. The flash card is still formated in a proprietary manner.
The Creative Nomad is so new I have not yet heard how it acts. I sent an email to their tech support but haven't gotten any reply yet. I am assuming that it will also prohibit the downloading of MP3 files from the NOMAD to your PC (easiest way to calm the music industry.) I hope you can swap flash cards with friends, but don't know for sure.
There are other feature differences between the devices, but none that refer to file security and how they can be accessed.
Most info was gotten from: http://www.eigerlabs.com go to the MPMAN section and look a product comparison or reviews. Don't remember which one.
I think the MPMAN F20 is the best for now. The future for these products are changing so quickly that buying cheap and good may be the best idea since what you buy may not be workable in a year!!
However that $50 rebate for the RIO really makes the decision tough.
In pennence you must do one of the folowng...
:)
1. Break a Windows OEM CD
2. Order and eat a McDonalds super sized meal or equivlent of any fast food place
3. Grow a beard....
4. drink a 3 letter bottle of cola [hard to find] or 2 2 letters
If you've allready done one of thies then consider penence paid and may the source be with you
I don't actually exist.
--
--
Just lurking, thanks!
I have a Xitel Platinum Storm sound card that only cost $99. It came with great headphones that vibrate on the low bass, supports EAX, A3D, Direct, etc. 128 bit, 96 channels (?), 4 speaker support, etc. Competes well with SoundBlaster's Live. Then bought Creative Labs FPS 2000 for $199 retail (you can get it on the net for $142 at computershopper.com). The music is great. My gf is a huge critic of her music, and even she loves it. Oh yea, I forgot to mention the mp3 files themselves... I'm using CDCOPY and it's default encoder (I think it's L3enc?) Much better encoding than most of the songs I've traded for (did I say trade? I mean temporarily tested). I'm only doing it at 128 bit too. Rader
It'd be terrible thing to kill the Word format. Every time a Microsoft Word user loses a file due to the Concept macro or I get a .doc file attached to an email from someone who doesn't remember sending me anything, I chuckle and shake my head. Those crazy Wordies.
Microsoft Word is kind of like Dan Quayle. I don't actually want to be associated with either, but the entertainment value from all the wacky hijinks sure is high.
does anyone know of any portable CD players that can play MP3s? (Diskman-type?) do they exist? is there some technological block preventing Sony/Aiwa/Panasonic/you-name-it from shipping one? I mean, who here WOULDN'T object to 100+songs (10+ hours) of portable music on one CD?
-- My Sig is a P228.
Note that while bandwidth will probably catch up enough to play PCM's directly, memory, particually flash memory, still has a-ways to catch up.
/still/ be useful.
/really/ push their 'net tax' policy on the government.
MP3's will
Anyway... they're only complaining about MP3s because MP3s make the so called 'piracy' possible. Once bandwidth catches up, they'll complain about that and then they'll
It's possible to have consistent opposition to intellectual property in general. and approve of the GPL as a way to produce effects akin to those which would be seen in a world with no IP laws. If there were no IP laws, we wouldn't really need the GPL, because nobody would be able to appropriate free software code into their non-free programs. This is oversimplified, of course, but the point is that not everyone believes in the IP laws that support the GPL, even among people who themselves appreciate the effects of the GPL.
I think you're confusing Diamond's interests with the RIAA's. The RIAA wants to crush MP3. Diamond wants to make money from selling the Rio. If they stop playing MP3's, people will stop buying them, as most people have their music in MP3 format. Also, an MP3 is not "illegally copied SDMI music". It is not SDMI music, period, and thusly, is not affected by the transition from Phase I to Phase II. I mean, Diamond could program their Rios to stop playing MP3s when/if you upgrade to SDMI Phase II software, but why would they? That would destroy the demand for the product. Further, there is no Phase III or IV of SDMI. Phase II is simply when the anti-pirating stuff kicks in.
I agree with you -- SDMI is bad, but it's looking to be pretty much harmless. People aren't just going to up and stop using MP3s, and companies that refuse to support it are losing their market. SDMI is an overrushed, ill-concieved attack by the music industry on something that is tearing away their monopolistic stranglehold on the music market. It is doomed to failure.
Point :)
In that case, I wonder how long it'll be before someone figures out the SDMI format enough to write a decoder that simply ignores the copying data.
Next stop will be to kill off SDMI...
SDMI is just a new "technology" everyone is going to have to find a workaround for in order to put whatever they want on the new Diamond mp3 player.
Scott Ruttencutter
viper21@ia.net
We Apprentice Developers and Designers
Pretty simply: if the new Rios won't play MP3s, I won't buy them.
Great .. The RIAA and Diamond have settled.. But what does this mean to us, the end users? Cumbersome security features? 'Please insert a quarter into your Rio to continue.'?
.sig: Now legally binding!
Next stop will be to kill off SDMI, Word format...
...at mp3.com. I kinda wish Diamond would've pressed the countersuit against the RIAA (on monopoly practice and the AHRA's constitutionality) but from Diamond's point-of-view, it doesn't do well to litigate against people you're wanting some partnership with...
--
The Future: Some assembly required; batteries not included.
... That Diamond has either sold out to the RIAA, or that they said "Find We'll support SDMI to shut you up".
Let's hope they haven't sold out. It would suck for the RIAA to get their way once again.
I know that many of you are enthusiastic about your Rios and will regret losing Diamond to the Forces of Evil(tm), but aren't there a number of other significant hardware players moving into the MP3 market? I recall Bose (or was it Grundig?) recently released an MP3 player, and they are well respected as a producer of personal music systems. Not to mention the fact that they are german (I think) and thus somewhat outside the American capital/political scene.
Isn't this really worse news for Diamond than for lovers of MP3's?
-konstant
-konstant
Yes! We are all individuals! I'm not!
The main reason mp3 is doing so well is its small size.
I imagine that within the next 5 years the average connection speed will be fast enough to stream full 16 bit PCM without compression.
The music business _will_ have to change their business model. It's 1910 and Henry Ford just rolled into your buggy dealership in a Model T.
-scott__
-Scott scott@surrealistic.org
Well, fsck that $hit. Diamond is gonna go with SDMI?!? That sucks @$$.
Since the current Rio's still take MP3's, I think I'll go out and get one.
Can anyone tell me which end the security comes from on SDMI? Is it in the file? Is it during the download?
Curiosity?!? My ass! He stole shit! -T. Carpenter
Palmtops can already have the processing power to support MP3 playback, and if flash RAM starts getting cheap enough, I can imagine palmtops capable of running "PalmAmp" or something. (Stop me if this is already available.)
And these things would be pretty much computers, so if the RIAA sues them, they'd have to sue the whole computer industry for MP3 playback, no?
I think that would certainly make things interesting.
Did anyone else notice that "mp3", the source of everything related to the lawsuit, was not mentioned once? Kind of reminds me of how nobody ever said "mafia" in The Godfather.
Any decent 4ack should be able to make the Rio work for them. My hook or cr00k.
the suit and the appeal were both denied. more info at News.com
No unauthorized use. Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
Not piracy, not the the threat of piracy, just the potential threat of piracy.
Sort of like Alan Greenspan keeping an all night vigil looking for the Inflation Bogeyman. Sheesh.
Bravery, Kindness, Clarity, Honesty, Compassion, Generosity
...Nothing interesting here. Just move along...
It seems that SDMI has been kind enough to put the current specification onto the web. You can find it at http://www.sdmi.org if you are interested. I took a look around, and I don't think that the so-called "phase 1" SDMI is anything to worry about.
From what I can gather, phase 1 devices (which are expected this fall) will pretty much just be able to recognize SDMI marked content, and respect whatever rules are encoded into that song. The devices will play any non-SDMI content without any complaints. In fact, the only screening that the player will do on the content seems to be a check for the "upgrade to phase 2" trigger. Once phase 2 is developed, the studios will begin putting this trigger into their SDMI songs. Those songs won't play until you upgrade. However, if you don't bother listening to SDMI songs, you shouldn't ever get the trigger. There is no indication that your player will break if you don't upgrade, you just won't be able to play phase 2 songs.
The so-called phase 2 is where they will actually try and get fancy with the protection. This version will try and screen all content to see if it is protected. They are hoping to have some sort of watermarking technique which they can use to mark CD's. These "phase 2" CD's, in theory, would produce MP3's which would still have the watermark. But, of course, if your player is phase 1 it won't know how to check for these watermarks, so your MP3's will work just fine.
The main possible problem I see is that most of this logic is contained in software that runs on your PC. That software then talks to the "Portable Device", or PD, over a "Secure Authenticated Channel". I think we can all image what would be involved in trying to write GPL software that would talk to one of these things over the SDMI interface. However, the spec does explicitly mention that PD's may have "unprotected" interfaces, with the caveat that all content from the "unprotected digital input" is "screened". I assume that this means that the PD has to check for the "upgrade" trigger. It's not clear whether or not the manufacturer would have to include two separate physical port, or if it would be OK to just have one port that would have some obscure protocol for putting it into "secure" mode. If the latter, I would guess that the SDMI Rio's will continue to work just fine with the current Linux software. Oh, except that you won't be able to copy songs out of the Rio. The Spec is very clear about that point. To be honest, I'm suprised Diamond included that in the first place.
It's my opinion that we may not ever see phase 2. I have strong doubts about anybody's ability to develop a watermarking technique for audio which can't be removed. Not to mention whether or not the current portables will be able to implement such a technique. Even then, there is a good chance that the consumer will soundly reject the whole thing before it even gets close to phase 2. Oh well, I guess we'll see.
...this only affects RIO players. It doesn't kill off MP3, or anything like that.
Anyone who wants portable MP3 can still take their MP3s and burn them onto CDs or whatnot.
In the long run, it's not going to make much of a difference. Especially with the variety of MP3 solutions out there - Diamond isn't the only game in town.
Tort
Wrong, anytime there is a demand, anytime a service is desired, money can be made. Money can be made by offering a huge archive of free software (ftp.cdrom.com), or a search service.
Fans are an artists greatest asset. Fans buy t-shirts, attend concerts, talk to other fans. Most music groups make NO money in royalties until they sell a quarter-million copies.
Just as an illustration, why did you post your words to slashdot? You gave them away for free, why did you do something so stupid? Why am I posting my words to slashdot? Because I wish to enrich humanity with my words, not because I wish to enrich myself with monetary compensation.
I am an artist, like many other artists, I do my work for itself, because I wish to enrich humanity or my friends, to give them the gift of my opinions, my perspective, my aid. Not to make money. I do not make 'intellecual property', which may be posessed, hoarded, stolen. I make ideas, I make artistic works, my words here, my programming, my art, my works, the algorithms I design.
Do you believe that nobody is honest? That if you offered something for free, everyone would leech off of it, that there would be no contributors to the creators? I have sent bug reports in, made (and attempted to submit) patches, and such. I also help out on IRC occasionally. I gift others whom I will never meet again my time, my human labor, that which money only a measurment for.
There is lunacy on both sides of the issue, a gift culture will not work, nor is a purely capatilistic culture good.
I try to strike a reasonable balance. I gift my labor to others as I wish, with the only requirement that if they give it to others, that they give reasonable attributation to me. I also accept orders for where to direct my labor for my job.
If you can hear it, you can copy it. And with the right equipment, you can avoid any significant degradation in quality.
Simple.
From their commercial point of view the SDMI, while unlikely to be very successful, will do well enough to more than offset the minimal cost of organizing it.
Unfortunately, there are many more ways to make money than by just creating a superior product.
Simple.
From their commercial point of view the SDMI, while unlikely to be very successful, will do well enough to more than offset the minimal cost of organizing it.
Unfortunately, there are many more ways to make money than just creating a superior product.
MP3 quality depends. I run my PC audio out through my stereo amp & electrostatic speakers, and 128kbps MP3 really bit -- they were right at the edge of acceptable. At 190 it's hard to tell the music's been compressed, and at 256 it's damn near transparent to my ears. Variable-bitrate encoding (VBR) is a wonderful advent; in my opinion VBR files have a much crisper, cleaner sound than CBR files of the same size.
My computer has replaced my CD player as my primary sound source. Higher bitrates and VBR have made it a painless transition. Then again, I don't download MP3s, I rip 'em from my own (and other people's, and the library's, etc.) CDs.
-Anonymous Coward, will get around to getting a login one of these days
MP3's have survived for this long without any "corporate interests"... what makes you think that just because the market doesn't grow, that MP3 will "be taken down"?
Have I missed something here?
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
MP3 at 256Kbit/sec is pretty damn good. At this bitrate I cannot distinguish the MP3 from the CD. Of course, more advanced compressions schemes (AAC, Microsoft Audio 4.0) may give you CD-transparent quality at 128Kb/s, but history has proved many times that it is not always the most advanced technology that gets really successfull.
In the 80s the compact disc came out and some said that LPs have more character.
In the 70s the transistor amplifier replaced tubes; some complained about artificial sound.
In the 60s the compact cassette replaced awkward tapes; it was said that more weight means more quality.
And guess what happened when the LP (using vinyl) replaced the pre-war stuff (does anybody know Schellack?)
Anyway, most of those mp3-sucks-guys compare HiFi-equipment costing more than $1000 to some el-cheapo sound card worth less than $100 including speakers.
Just my 2 cents. And 100 Cents is one Euro.
Rio was a stepping stone. It was a good proof of concept. Its day is now over. The only thing holding back the type of gizzmos we should be seeing in stores (cd players that can handle mp3s native, rio devies with networking built in to share files on the go amongst players, more artists doing like TMBG and PE with thier songs) is the RIAA and the Army of Litigators.
Who is giving these companys the money to ruin it for us? You guesed it WE ARE.
(thats we as in the collective mass we, not in the specific groupings we)
So what can we do? Simple. Cease buying products from any company using or planning to used the scumtype codes. Tell your fave artists to start putting out thier music, for sale, in mp3 format.
THis whole thing is about MONEY...the green stuff we fork over for goods and services. It has always been about enough people giving a shit to put the pinch on the producers and Demand the services they want.
Yes it is a simplistic plan, but sometimes they are the best ones.
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
SDMI is a compressed format (lossy like a jpg). If you resample the output from an SDMI track and then MP3 it you'll have compressed it twice and the quality will suffer.
+++++
+++++
The harder you look the less you see. That's what we're up against.
I really can't understand why even bother worrying about SDMI. The vast majority of people that collect and play .mp3's are with players on their computers. The portability of it is still in it's ultimate infancy. You think something as small as a stupid watermark will prevent .mp3's from continuing their widespread reach? I doubt it. Look at the most recent application, game, hardware, OS, etc. EVERYTHING can be cracked. Be it with a "mod chip", crack, serial, etc... Wake up RIAA, the information age has been here longer than you thought. Whether it's good or bad information is to be determined by whoever is using it, but if you try to screw the people that are your consumers, they will retaliate. There will always be someone saying, "My product can't be cracked", and yet, give it a week or two, and it is. They say history repeats itself, it sure looks like it to me.
WRONG. The Diamond-software may not let you do this, but third party software does. Check out The Snowblind Alliance . It's much more useful than the diamond software, but I've found that it only uploads files to the rio properly half of the time. It does, however, seem to download files to the PC reliably.
>Also you can not load a flash card with music and let your friend listen to it in his RIO. Each RIO card is formated for that machine only.
I don't know f theis is true, but I suspect this is bogus. I bought my girlfriend an SE (like mine) for our anniversary, so once I buy a memory card I will try that out.
I totally argree with killing SDMI, but why Word? Nearly every other word processor can read and write MS Word files, so what's the big deal? Now if MS tried to sue anyone that used Word formats in their software... it'd be out the window in the blink of an eye.
Wired online has an article about this.
Well, I guess we all head on over to www.TheSeek.com and load up on MP3s
Of course, if the RIO doesnt have some easy way around this..people will just a different MP3 player...
You know, for a while, I understood why big executives and other oldbodies had such trouble understanding why any digital information available to the public was so easy to copy, and functionally impossible to keep secure.
But I figured EVENTUALLY they would get the picture. Could someone please tell me why these people cannot be made to understand that, no matter how tricky they get, no matter how many layers of "software protection" they slap on, we will always be able to crack open the box and get at the goodies inside? We all know that, as soon as you render something digital, it is a supremely simple task to reproduce it with perfect fidelity. What part of the brain do these people lack that prevents them from realizing this fact? If they wanted good reliable copy protection, they should have stuck to LPs.
Seriously, what is the deep mystery here? Argh! And so ends my rant.
Michael Gentili
- He's just some guy, you know?
Who was it who said SDMI will go the way of DIVX?
_______
2B1ASK1
Chalk up a point for the greedy music cartels.
-Chris
Looks like SDMI is making progrss and thats not good.
For those of you who don't understand it, this is my take:
You buy a Digital Music Player (PMP), its MP3 compliant and SDMI compliant. It plays all your MP3s and whatever else format it supports.
--cut to 18 months later--
A hardware triggered event takes place inside your player that only allows "legal" MP3s or other formats. Unless they have the watermark, they just won't play.
This is how those is control wish to remain so. SDMI limits the freedoms of the consumer, and does it quite underhandedly, I would even say illegally.
If anyone sees a problem with my interpretation please enlighten me, thanks.
Tell your friends to tell their friends "SDMI sucks".
+&x
Is the stranglehold the RIAA has on the industry. No longer can a band release an album and allow a radio station to play whatever it wants. Instead, they dictate that only songs 2 and 4 can be played (or whatever). I'm sorry but that's crap. Consumers should know what they are buying before they give up their money. There are so many albums out there with 1 or 2 hit singles and the rest is just filler crap. I'm grateful for stores that allow listening before buying. But it is inconvenient. If I want to listen to mp3s at home to see what is being offered - it is much less of a hassle. And I do go buy the albums I like (I listen to them in my car CD player too, you know). The industry is afraid of losing revenue when people start seeing through the crap bands they are shovelling at the public. Piracy has been there as long as music has been for sale. That's not going to change, and internet technology isn't going to affect the industry's revenue from that standpoint. It will affect their revenue if it forces them to be honest with consumers, though. And that scares the crap out of em. - Speed
Eh, figured it'd have to happen sooner or later. RIAA was having puppies. Still, time to evaluate other methods of listening to MP3s:
List goes on...
Screw the record execs... They aren't gonna get me without a fight. 'Sides there's always going to be a way around SDMI. It's called MP3.
Jonny Angel
Jonny Angel
rebel rousing technobilly
Eh? No portable mp3 players means mp3 will die?
First off, it seems to have done quite well without any portable players
Second, a Rio or equivalent device is not the only way to listen to mp3s on the go. If you don't like the Rio getting in bed with SDMI, get a minidisc. It's digital, it's swappable, and with a soundcard equipped with an optical output, it'll sound as good as mp3 possibly can.
Another damned comic
+++ NO CARRIER
As part of Diamond's countersuit against the RIAA, the company had asserted that the AHRA is unconstitutional. The act defines consumer rights for home copying, but also calls for royalties payments from manufacturers and importers of digital audio recorders to artists and sound recording holders (i.e. record labels). In retrospect, Watkins characterizes his company's approach as a reaction to RIAA hostility rather than a legitimate claim. "We don't feel that the AHRA is unconstitutional per se, but we didn't feel that it really applied to these devices, which is ultimately what the court ruled. Don't you, or shouldn't you, get disbarred for this? Yes, we countersued on grounds that we knew were wrong, but we were just trying to vigourously defend ourselves! (I am not in favour of the RIAA on this matter, but the RIO lawyers sure look bad here to me.) A Nony Mouse.
It totally depends on the bitrate and the encoder. A month back I encoded some stuff with BladeEnc and wasn't too impressed with 128kbit/s. At 256kbit/s I couldn't tell the difference from the original. Then I tried the LAME encoder (http://www.sulaco.org/mp3) and was pretty amazed how much better it sounded, even at low bitrates.
a laptop with a soundcard and the right software is also a portable mp3 player. I wonder what the RIAA plans to do about them.
There's no law (yet) that says all portable mp3 players have to bow to the RIAA. Get the PMP300 while it's legal and open, and look elsewhere for your next purchase. If the DVD region coding standard is any indication, vendors will probably make any anti-piracy system easy to bypass anyhow.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
On the other hand, I love it when I hand it to people and they turn it over and over trying to figure out how I got the music in there.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
This is good because MP3 quality sucks anyway. I was really worried about seeing MP3 potentially kill off CD sales as I personally can't stand the bad quality of tracks which have been MP3 encoded. I'm glad they've decided to suicide. MiniDisc is where it's at, you can digitally record MP3z if you have to.
Here's a good article on why SDMI will fail (cross your fingers). http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/news/9905_113/
A software company illegally uses GPL code in their product. A computer user downloads an illegal copy of a song. One of these actions causes hundreds of Slashdot users to post irate comments, while the other happens every day, and the only protest comes from record industry lawyers. Yet in both cases the same principles are broken: the rights of the copyright holder have been ignored.
No Linux user who ignores artists' intellectual property rights every day by playing pirated music should be outraged by violations of free software licenses. By engaging in piracy---or by tolerating it---we are undermining the very laws and principles we rely on to keep our software free.
Instead of flagrantly stealing music sold on CDs, we should support alternate distribution channels like mp3.com. We should help musicians and record companies find ways to truly open up their licensing, in the same ways we've worked with computer companies to make their software free. The ubiquitous piracy which exists today will only hurt our chances for a more open environment in the future.
Music piracy is a problem, and we need to work to solve it with constructive methods, before the RIAA "solves" the problem in their own way. We need tougher community standards against music piracy, and community support for better ways to legitimately use digital music. Ideally, more music and more software could be truly free. Music pirates and software pirates will always exist, but they should fall into the same category as the script kiddies---disdained by respectable free software users and developers.
No MP3s. No sale. That's beautifully elegant. Did we learn nothing from DAT? Bogged down wit anti-copy tech and blank media taxed the bajeezus out of until the whole format is so useless that only studios and a few musicians actually use it. Just imagine if the audio CD was being developped today. Imagine what kind of bullshit would be mandated to be part of the standard! Probably SCMS, region locking, crypto, some new audio equivalent of macrovision, etc. CDs would be as FUBARed as DVDs are. DVD has a chance, though. That there are software decoders means that one day DVD ecoding will be CRACKED and on that day I will dance gleefully in front of the movie execs who wanted this.