Slashdot Mirror
WinLinux 2000
asdren writes "WinLinux 2000 has entered the final beta stage. This sounds like an interesting option for current Windows users who are interested in taking the Linux plunge but don't have the time/patience/guts to partition drives and configure drivers. " has anyone tried this yet? I'd be curious as to how the installation/running of the system is.
Please. We're talking about a real world web site now--Not some testing lab setup. Go back and read why the tests from Mindcraft are unrealistic.
Rwwwwww! Ccccssssssss!
</CAT>
Same here, this was my first installation. I was really worried about partitioning, and nto sure if all the effort required to do it right would pay off. However, when I heard of the umsdos install avaible on slakware, I jumped on board and gave it a try. 6 months later, I found myself rarely booting into windows, and then came the almight fdisk.
While the idea of installing Linux on a windows file system (vfat - slakware was the first I believe), or being able to start it up (e.g. reboot to it) from a desktop click (mandrake), isn't that novel, what would be nice, is something that read the windows registry (or wherever it stores device information) and translated it into a script which would insert the proper kernel modules with the proper options. I'm assuming that's what this does. I think more distributions should pursue this (or better yet, start some sort of distribution-independant process) that could maintain it. Of course this is not to say, that this should be developed in place of Linux's inherrent ability to automatically plug and pray.
You are looking at Red Hat documentation, that's why. Red hat isn't good at documentation. Try readon System Admin's guide.
I can't agree more. It's none of my bizness who's using what. It bugs the hell out of me when people would not read any documentation and expect us to be their "interactive man-pages".
Their site has been down all day. Anyone know of any mirrors out there for the installation files? Have they been Slashdotted or is this a demo of the stability of Linux running UNDER Windows? :)
thats what boot disks are for... so you just pop in a floppy, and go from there
Is an MPEG layer 3 stream, just save it and pump it into XMMS.
isn't XMMS an audio progie? what happen to the video part?
Others out there seem to be doing a better job of providng a windows based install. Peanut is small (thus the name) but still full functional. Phat Linux is good, but not as easy as they say, and Armed Linux seems to have the largest growing user base from their user discussion board. The Winlinux site didn't look like they have done much research into other options already on the market.
Nothing requires you to split up the drive. It's just a good idea (TM) IMHO. A single big system with just a swap partition isn't a problem but there are advantages to spliting things up. Upgrading can be cleaner. You can have different things on different drives. For example /var/spool is on my old HD. Nothing really important there just what leafnode downloads. If the drive dies I don't care. I also have things split up so I can totally wipe my install without hurting /home or /usr/local. Worse case upgrades are easier. You can always use links to get around things. Say you're short space on /usr move part of the dirs under /usr to where you have space and setup links back to /usr. Or if you buy a new drive the same thing works.
"The installation queries the Windows registry for the relevant devices and figures out what Linux drivers should be loaded."
Since this is blatantly obvious. Why hasn't anyone else done this already? All distros could pull of this trick.
Except it was slackware 2.something... i think.. whichever one it was that had the 1.2 kernel
Reminds me of when my 540MB harddrive broke down, back in 1996. I had to use two 20MB harddrives for a while (ST506, with it's own controller).
Anyway, I had already gotten a taste of Linux (Slackware-distribution) before my drive broke, and I wanted to run it on the setup I was using. I downloaded some kind of "MiniLinux"-distribution, and got it running. It took a whopping 15MB, but it was good enough for running Minicom and some other programs.
I primarily used my PC - a Pentium 60 with 24MB's of RAM - for calling local BBS's and playing old EGA-based games.
Hmm interesting, although I think that both of you are trying to paint a 'gray' issue into a black and white one. Most who think they know what the problem is throw out some theory of it's this or it's that. just like some of the pellets from a shotgun will hit the target quite a bit of the target will be missed in the same shot.
They're quite a few reasons you'll see some of the reactions you've been bearing witness to ever since Linux came to the forefront. They span from one end Downright irrational all the way to the quite lucid and rational.
Just to add to what's been said without (some) duplication. One of the thinks that the geek culture adores is the ability to think, and in a clear and forthright manner. In geek culture RTFM translate to polite society as "you should have made a reasonable effort to read the documentation that was provided" [I'm leaving aside the issue of sutabily at this moment].
The "ease of use" issue is a mix of reasons. One could be as you mentioned before. "I earned my stripes, so should you" Another is the [fear?] *possible long term degradation of either the skills or philosophy inherent in both the culture and the os. MS has shown that the fear isn't completely without foundation. Feeling of like or dislike toward a command-line non-withstanding. Would a command-line prosper or die in a culture composed primarily of recruits who's first experience was of the dos c:\ prompt? How many of these 'recruits' would understand the philosophy [keeping in mind that all os's have a 'philosophy] of Unix/Linux?
The philosophy that I might add that made Unix and subsequently linux the stable OS that's so coverted lately. Oh before I get off the beaten path. Another reason is that [admit it] laziness(in all its forms) is encourged in our society. Some people may view [incorrectly?] that some of the recent trends are simply manisfitations of this. Some of these fears are groundless, others we may not know until it's too late before we can say if they were true or false.
Time is the only one with the answers.
Infojack, you are a sad twat with no sense of humour. And homophobic too. Take a powder and/or get a life. p.s. - made you look.
Great news, get lots of people to run a superior system without have to format any harddrive, I meen, if I wouldn't had lots of external scsi harddrives I would never have tried linux, but now I'm running it every day. I didn't have any unix experience and did a lot of misstakes in the beginning but as time passes I learned to do things the right way. The simple fact is, if you have to lose all your work or even risk losing any work you've done in one system you won't change. My first linux time was sure ruff, no experience and on top of that a buggy Mklinux... But here I am, 1000 misstakes and several times deleted linux partirions later and like Linux more than Ive ever could imagine in the beginning
Well I run a site with over 700,000 Unique visitors daily, running a constant 11 m/Bit of traffic on a lowly Dell 2300, PIII-500, 256 m/B of Mem, Linux 2.2.12, Apache 1.3.9, PHP 3.0.12. No lag, no problem. Sure you can be a moron and run a high traffic site on IIS, but why would you want to?
Obviously nobody can be this incompetent. WinLinux is a hoax, and everyone has fallen for it. We can only hope that such an initiative can be real someday, but we have all fallen for the scam artists once again.
News for Nerds. Stuff that matters.
NOT to be confused with "News for Linux geeks. Stuff that only matters to them, disses NT, and/or makes OSS look good."
When i first installed slackware (lesee..94? it was kernel .9something or other) with my friend, we had pretty much no clue what we were doing. After spending almost a whole weekend downloading it from AOL (yes, it was in their filebases...), we didn't care. :)
Isn't part of the Linux experience about learning and absorbing information by trying? The notion that linux users should have previous unix experience, although probably a good idea, is definitely not nessicary. Besides, it's so much more fun when yer totally clueless
-Slynkie
jsalit@earthlink.net
Or are you too coool for that?
No, reel c001 31337 d00dz know linux
Yeah, you're right. It's not as bad as all that. I guess if I were going to reproduce something verbatim like this, I would say so at the top and provide a link.
This article is the funniest thing I've read this morning! Linux on Windows?!?
Oh my god... *thud*
MEDIC!
what happened? This linux geek was just sitting here surfing.. and now he's passed out.
What was he reading?
Says here that "Winlinux" is available. Maybe some kind of new Microsoft offering?
That's the second funniest thing I've read this morning!
-- What goes up, must come down. Ask any system administrator.
Yep... This is the third...
Wanna-be hackers of the world, unite...errr....rejoice!
:-) ) while enjoying the security and reliability of Windows!
:-)
Now you can say you run Linux on your machine (which'll help you pick up chicks at your local geek-bar
I can appreciate the effort that was used to create it, but, the time would have been better spent in, say, writing additional support for Linux Laptops, or maybe getting the damned Winmodems to work. Or anything else that's honest to god Linux.
Call me a purist, but the first *nix version I played with came on 5.25" disks. And yes, I had no clue what was going on....and then the feeling sort of passed. The point is that if you want to play with Linux, you can use this thing. If you want to do anything serious, just take the plunge. It'll hurt for a bit, but this way you'll be forced to figure things out, and it'll all work out in the end. With Lindows, it's easier just to chicken out and use the "stable & reliable" apps on your desktop.
Not to mention that this thing kowtows to ol' Billy boy, by recognizing the legitimacy of Winblows as a viable operating system.
Anyway, that's my two cents. Feel free to flame me.
-Don't get sucked in by comments - debug only code.
I heard about this last night, it was down most of the day. The FTP site was working for awhile at least. I tried to get a download but crapped out on me at 41 megs, I was getting pretty slow speeds for my DSL line. Have these guys ever hear of a mirror before.
What qualifies you to order all of these people around?
www.winlinux.net is running Apache/1.2.6 FrontPage/3.0.4 on BSD/OS Courtesy of Netcraft.
but having the install actually detect the settings for hardware FROM the Win9X registery is really, REALLY nice..
Unless the 9X settings are already hosed...
I think that this is the point. Get a semi functional linuxish environement going untill you know enough of the shell and administrative details that you can take the plung and build a real linux system from source, partition the drives, recompile the kernel etc.
I'm curious as to what's worse; The so called "lame" people who install it or the ones who act like their expierence with it thus far is equivalent to the importance of penis size in sex.
If you gave him a modern distribution like Caldera Open Linux 2.2 instead of Red Hat, it would have worked. They support point&click installation directly from MS-Windows.
After a quick Deja search I came up with some more info on this. It gives a brief overview of exactly what the heartstopping name "WinLinux 2000" refers to. http://linuxpr.com/releases/406.html
If you have a compiler for windows you could have a go at compiling it and upload the binary somewhere.. Shouldn't take more than an hour to do it.. johno
Jesus! Don't do that to me! I hadn't heard of this project before, so when I saw "WinLinux2000, I thought "Oh, no, Mr Bill!". Yeah, yeah, I know the GPL protects us all, but still, take care of your readers' blood pressure.
I Read through all the comments of people who think they are all that and a bag of chips becuase they installed slackware. And then they call this winlinux an emulator, and make up things like it does partition becuase its imposible to install linux on fat. Which proves my point that the distro doesn't tell you how smart the person is. I run redhat and I knew about running linux on a fat partition, and i can read and find out that it reboots the computer, so most likely guys, its not emulating linux. So mabey some of you slackware guys should spend less time flaming and more time learning linux. Or are you too coool for that?
Hmmm.. I wonder what version of netscape they use, can't be the same one I use, Hell I wonder if it's even the same product. They must be talking about some other browser
Script kiddies are a Win32 / Redhat breed - we want generic user types. My friend the micro~1 consumer gamer switched to RedHat recently. Is that a bad thing? no it was the easiest entry for him at the time and now he is "one of us".
Quit being so high n mighty about this. It isn't about fscking kudos, its about making *everyones* experience better
stty erase ^H
there are other linux's u can run under DOS. http://www.portalux.com/ look under DOSLINUX its small 10mb linux os that u can boot in a window...
If it's like PhatLinux, they may have just one big file in the FAT partition that contains the linux filesytems that are then mounted via a loopback device. Now as far as using Windows Drivers, it during the install process, it may scan the windows registry to figure out how your machine is currently configured and use that information to configure any linux drivers and X so you don't have to.
Sure, this is all fine and good, but it possibly can construe some misconceptions about Linux. People might start thinking Linux is an "application" for the Windows Desktop instead of a full Operating System. I can tell you the first time someone comes in an IRC channel or posts to a mailing list and says "When I double-click on my Linux icon on my desktop, it says it cant find c:\linux and bluescreens!", they're going to get a boot to the head.
-Dave
I'm a Linux advocate. I like it and I'd like to see more people try it. Its great that there are those out there trying to make it accessible to more people.
That having been said...
Is anyone else bothered by this 'post' which is basically an ad for this distribution, being moderated up to a 5? It seems a little wrong to me. I'm all for posting news like this and letting people post their opinions and experiences and maybe someone who is behind the scenes posts some additional info, but this is wierd.
Point being, I know a lot about this stuff. What I don't know, I don't tend to have a real hard time learning. However, what we computer geeks forget is that there are VERY clueless folks out there. I've met and consulted a ton of people, friends, family, etc. They say things like Connect me to Netscape. I had one person try to use the internet without a modem and complained when it didn't work.
If the Linux Community wants World Domination and death to Windows so badly, they need to make room for a Linux for Dummies Distro. (Watch out Apache..Win2K has a server setup wizard..I say watch out because no matter how bad the M$ server is, it will be used a lot because it is easy to setup by Mr. Schmuck)
Also, to get back into topic...A lot of people don't have time or interest in learning as much as we have had to. I know I wouldn't recommend Linux to a few people because I don't want them asking me questions all the time. The HowTos are not going to cut it for them. Point and Click is why 90% of computer users are using Windows. If they wanted to think, then Unix would be the BIG thing and M$ would be a little known company that failed with the Altair.
I can't say they're a "major" manufacturer, but Indelible Blue, http://www.indelible-blue.com/, offers multi-boot systems, and custom configuration, or did, last I checked.
cant find linuxppc lite (looked all over both .org and .com site)
the
have a friend learning web stuff, has an imac,
wants to play with the gimp...
I don't think Mandrake included my nice Windows setup tool, since the source was for C++Builder and they hadn't got it to compile under BC++ 5.0. But if you want that too, I can supply it.
Life's a lot like money-- you spend it, then it's gone. Spend wisely.
This isn't Linux running ``under'' Windows as an application. It's merely Linux sharing a filesystem with Windows. You still have to reboot to the Linux kernel. Thus I suspect that you are going to, for instance, find it rather inconvenient to interoperate gnupg with your Windows e-mail program.
What's so heart attack inducing about being able to boot Linux from another OS and sharing a filesystem partition between the two? It's been done for years, starting with DOS. You can use LOADLIN to boot Linux from DOS and thanks to the UMSDOS file system, you can have a root partition (with long file names and other comforts) based on a DOS filesystem.
This is the BEST feature I can see.. UMSDOS doesn't really impress me, but having the install actually detect the settings for hardware FROM the Win9X registery is really, REALLY nice..
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
Wasn't there an attempt to implement a toy version of Linux which ran entirely as a user-space Windows application a while ago? (I think someone mentioned a version of Linux that ran as a Windows Netscape plug-in, though they may have been joking.)
Most definitely. The "rite of passage issue" is at the root of these attitudes. However, I feel that intentionally keeping the bar artificially high is an attempt to fight off the inevitable. While humans have always had those rites, they have changed as technology advances. The old computer rite of passage was the ability to write in bytcode, punch cards etc. For those programmers, who spent their time in the trenches learning how to program low level stuff, the bar to programming was lowered when the compiler was introduced.
While there can be the loss of identity in the original group, they will often regroup and form a new identity with a barrier of entry of its own. When Linus first released the kernel the barrier was getting to even run on your machine. Eventually, the barrier was to build a complete system with the kernel, then it changed to being able to get a distribution up and running, then to being able to properly tune the "best" distribution. These things change. I think that rather than foam at the mouth as they see the bar lowered, hackers should be seeking their new identity. Not just as being able to hack "a Linux system together", but to hack a system targeted at a particular need or some other identity.
LetterJ
Writing Geek/Pixel Pusher
jwynia@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jwynia
The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
Nothing to do with MS.
$ whois mslinux.com
[rs.internic.net]
Registrant:
Newyen Corporation (MSLINUX-DOM)
6119 Welch Ave
Stockton, CA 95210
US
Domain Name: MSLINUX.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Nguyen, Kiet (KN1767) domain@NEWYEN.COM
1-510-459-7528
Billing Contact:
Nguyen, Kiet (KN1767) domain@NEWYEN.COM
1-510-459-7528
Record last updated on 14-Jun-99.
Record created on 10-Sep-98.
Database last updated on 21-Sep-99 14:40:22 EDT.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS.CSOFT.NET 208.161.216.110
NS2.CSOFT.NET 208.161.216.111
--
OK someone always asks this but today I haven't noticed anyone ask this yet. Disclaimer: I believe that people are entitled to decide whether they make their programs open or closed source and under what terms they do that.
Anyway, does anyone know if the code they use for detecting the users settings in the Windows registry is available under the GPL (or similar)? I think it would be useful for many other Linux distributions that would like to make installation easier but would like to take a different approach to WinLinux (installing Linux in it's own partition would be a priority for many). This feature would be useful to anyone who wants to install Linux on machine running Windows already and other distributions could benefit. Like I say, I'm not saying they should HAVE to GPL their code (unless it incorporates GPLed code) but it would indeed be useful.
--
This actually exists....
Get ready!
Bitcoin pyramid: Join here: http://www.bitcoinpyramid.com/r/1427 it's FREE!
Heeeeere, kitty kitty. (Petting tiger) Nice kitty. Good kitty.
"How many light bulbs does it take to change a person?" --BMcC-->
if they could just "open a Linux Window" and play with the shell and XFree a little
:) [Sorry..had to be said]
Start->Run->telnet [hostname]
Hey - you actually think the Linux community can *agree* on something?
The Linux community has got less cohesion than the Protestant church - for any viewpoint, you'll ALWAYS find 5 people with an opposite (and mutually incompatible) one.
The miracle is that we're still able to work together!
BUT
Does anyone know of a mirror???
Whenever some "noname" company announces a new app, and i want additional info, then i'll do it your way:
- Check the Website
- Get some staff info
- whois domain, and get the registrators name
- check dejanews, for staff members and registrator
This should reveal a lot of info, otherwise hidden. Maybe, next time, we should also nmap the server, and neighbors, for additional info, also whois-ing relevant neighbours... We could also finger them, websearch (google/alltheweb) for staff webpages, and additionally query peoplesearch or similar searchengines, which may provide additional info.Does anyone have other ideas, for getting background infos?
Ummmm, what I really want to know is what they are offering that Caldera hasn't already offered. Lemme see here, UMSDOS based, a Control Panel icon to run loadlin.exe, reading existing Windows hardware settings to use in the Linux setup. Yep, thanks guys, you rock.
This seems even lower than the Mandrake guys offering a "better Red Hat". At least they acknowledge where their distribution comes from. Seems like every cheese-eater with a CD burner is trying to make a quick buck off the uninformed masses these days by claiming Windows-interoperatbility. I see nothing particularly special about their screenshots.
I have a bit of advice for all you "distribution chasers". Instead of wasting your time and energy building your own half-baked distribution, why don't you offer to help the people who built the one you are working on? Until you have a fundamental difference of opinion about how the distribution should look, you don't have any good reason to roll your own.
-Joe
Sounds like you need VMWare so you can run Linux and Windows on the same box at the same time. I set this up for one of my developers and it's working great for him. He can still use his Windows stuff, but he's learning quickly the Unix Way.
What goes up, must come down. Ask any system administrator.
./ assault.
And that exactly what happened. Considering the name not really amazing. few sites can survive a full
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
>It asks for a user and password, and even gives >you the option to make root the same password.
WOW!! That's a great option! Let every one do this!! Maybe that's why it's called Win...
=)
Unix is user friendly... it just chooses it's friends selectively!!
Amen.
There is much to be learned from breaking things.
Being able to beat on a box mercilessly will teach you things that you could never ever learn on a machine you care about.
That being said, there is also a lot to say about giving people a path to the rightous way. Being able to get a taste of linux on a Windows box is not such a bad thing. This might just be the motivation some people need to do it right.
2 from an ex-manager of professional wrestlers.
I would really loved to see how this runs under wine. I know, I know, that isn't the purpose of this distro... but it would be fun to see the results.
More seriously: Other linux distro's should take a clue from this. If it is possible for WinLinux to take a snapshot of your windows hardware settings and then install the appropriate Linux drivers, how about a floppy disk utility that would extract this information to the floppy. Then, during the linux install, the install process could prompt the newbie for the disk and then load the linux drivers. Makes it all pretty simple, huh?
Brought to you by Frobozz Magic Penguin Fodder.
I finally got through to the web site. WinLinux appears to be a smart installer and a standard Linux. I'm not sure whether the installer partitions the hd, or creates a large Windows file that the Linux system lives inside of.. my bets are on the partitioner, but I couldn't tell for sure. It doesn't seem to actually use the Win device drivers. It specifically doesn't support WinModems.
Basically it looks like a way to avoid having to figure out how to partition your hard disk.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
6.0 Mandrake sucked, never got Hardware right, and even if it thought it did, didn't boot properly. However 6.1 Seems to have cured all these problems. I'm not sure why there were so many problems with 6.0. I never did find a system it would install on. Haven't had that problem with 6.1. I didn't have any of these problems with RedHat 6.0.
-- Keith Moore
This sig is the express property of someone.
i've tried to download from their web and ftp
:-)
site and both appear to be down. i've sent
them email asking if they will be allowing
official mirrors, and also received no reply.
anyone know if these people are awake yet ?
-jason
That Lnx4win is also on the Mandrake 6.0 disc that got included in every one of the 100,000 copies of the new "Maximum Linux" magazine. I haven't tried it because I don't have the space on my Windows machine (a laptop) and all the others are already running Linux.
Unfortunately (as with a few other CDs included with magazines I've seen lately) it's rather short on details on getting started (although the magazine does have a coupleo of pages on installing Mandrake once you've got your HD partitioned).
-- Alastair
Opinions differ on the best way to set up Unix/Linux partitions. About the only generally agreed on rule of thumb I've seen is to make swap about twice your RAM size -- although I can remember back when we used to use 3X RAM size or 60 MB, whichever was bigger.
/var on its own partition for the logs and / and everything else (relatively static) on another, but on my development system /var is on the same partition as / but /home is separate to simplify backups. There's also a big VFAT partition for the Java programs in development to access them from either Linux or Windows (dual boot).
Beyond that, it varies all over the place from putting everything else on a single partition to splitting out nearly everything else to their own partitions. It depends what you're using it for -- on my web server I've got
-- Alastair
From /usr/src/linux/Documentation/Configure.help:
:)
CONFIG_UMSDOS_FS
Say Y here if you want to run Linux from within an existing DOS
partition of your hard drive. The advantage of this is that you can
get away without repartitioning your hard drive (which often implies
backing everything up and restoring afterwards) and hence you're
able to quickly try out Linux or show it to your friends; the
disadvantage is that Linux becomes susceptible to DOS viruses and
that UMSDOS is somewhat slower than ext2fs. Another use of UMSDOS
is to write files with long unix filenames to MSDOS floppies; it
also allows Unix-style softlinks and owner/permissions of files on
MSDOS floppies. You will need a program called umssync in order to
make use of umsdos; read Documentation/filesystems/umsdos.txt.
I suppose they're using this. So that's on top of FAT alright... Eewww....
If you did any 'code hacking' you couldn't post the binarys anywere, it would be a violation of US crypto exsport laws.
now, outside of the US....
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
***!!!PHHHOOOOOOT!!!***
Huge spit take all over the monitor. What?! What? Your chocolate is in my peanut butter! Your peanut butter is in my chocolate! Cats and dogs living together!-Real Wrath of God type stuff! Bun's not meat nor cheese. Word!
Why does this bother me, but LiteStep for Windows not? I think it's the name; yes -- the name.
The party's over
but it just feels like linux is going point and click, or ./script. which isn't the best plan imho.
but you can still do it the way you want. Nothing can stop a diehard CLI user. This just makes it more accessible. The problem I see with this is users who think they know what they're doing, fscking up their systems and blaming Linux.
+&x
This sounds like an interesting option for current Windows users who are interested in taking the Linux plunge but don't have the time/patience/guts to partition drives and configure drivers.
Huh? So how does this work...it just uses your current windows drivers and your FAT* partition? (I'd go see for myself but I can't get to their site) How would they handle buggy drivers that Windows would give a blue screen for?
I recently installed Red Hat 5.2 and the book was clear about what size to make each partition. I think it was in the chapter before the instructions for how to make partitions, so that may have been a little confusing.
The bigger problem I had was getting X to work. It still isn't. My Compaq Presario has built-in video hardware (which is non-operational since I have a better video card in a PCI slot) that gets detected during configuration instead of the desired video card.
I can't imagine any OS being easy to install due to the enormous variability in hardware between vendors/models/revisions/upgrades. The only truly easy way to get Linux is to buy it preinstalled. Do any major manufacturers offer dual-boot systems?
Everytime i've tried partitioning my drive i've
got it wrong. For this reason I just split out
/home from
Don't forget gnu make, which is an order of magnitude better than most makes and tar w/ the built in -z is entirely too cool
I couldn't! The ftp server was down. This is a bit of an old post (by /. standards), so I don't think it was that they got /.ed. But when I went to give them some feedback, there php and sql combo for there comment database was all screwed up. Looks like there server is in beta test as well. That and I want to download this over my schools network, but it is to big to fit on a zip disk in one piece. Wish they would break it up into two. Now, with some of the comments on here, I am wondering if it in fact uses the windows enviroment for anything, and if it will use my scanner drivers to let me use it with a stable version of the GIMP. Bugger.
They could use an existing FAT partition if they used a filesystem like UMSDOS. They wouldn't be the first to do that sort of thing. It's sort of like a Ext2 on top of FAT. Works pretty well, although it is slower.
It was down yestersay (9/21). They have a ftp address, but I have it at home and I'm not there now.
JCM
Oink, Oink!!
I have been wishing i could install linux in some form without messing with my windows setup, which i am bound to by a lot of adobe and macromedia software. I have been waiting for windows to super-crash so that i have to reinstall (and repartition), and even burned all my important files on cd, but it hasnt cooperated yet!
Juln
Just create a swap partition, say 128 MB, and use as much space as you want for linux as the other partition, mounted as root (/).
I'll have to take your word on the "considerable experience" part. If there is some reason you want separate partitions for other reasons then you know more about your intentions of the system than anyone else.
If you destroy it, call it a lesson learned. Re-install and repeat.
That's what I'm doing right now. I've reinstalled Linux about 4 times since I got it about a month ago. I probally didn't really NEED to do it, but I had no idea how to fix what I broke, so it was easier to just reinstall. I've come from a complete Windows GUI user (never really did DOS), to a semi-competent Unix user, which is better than I was. And I still have problems with it, but I chalk it up as learning, and I don't fret it, the worst I can do is have reinstall, and that only takes 30 minutes.
Can you install this thing directly from Windows? I ask this, because of a incedent that happened recently. We were loading up Red Hat onto some of the computers at school. This kid was interested, so he takes it home one night to install on his machine. He comes back the next day and says it doesn't work. He thought that when he put the CD in the CD-Rom drive, it would read it automatically, like most windows CD's will do, and then go to a nice little install process, like a normal Windows program, and then there would be a little Red Hat icon under his programs menu when he wanted to run Red Hat. Remember, these are the kinds of people that Linux will have to cater to if you want it to overtake Microsoft. So to help poor people like him, will this thing have a .exe file to start it off with, or even a little program icon in Windows that would restart his machine to boot into Linux?
LOL, Yeah but truly would be nice if there was an ASF player for Linux.
Download now! You will be amazed by its power and reliability and with Netscape Communicator included you will have a fast and stable Internet browsing machine.
Hmmm.. I wonder what version of netscape they use, can't be the same one I use, Hell I wonder if it's even the same product. They must be talking about some other browser
Now I can run gnupg under Windows (mind you, that's what I use at work and the gnupg team still has no binaries for Windows, eventhough it is supposed to allow "everybody" to exchange secure stuff).
I'm no computer newbie, but I am what you'd call a Linux newbie. I bought a Mandrake 6 GPL cd a week ago, and after running the installer 117 times on a computer with all supported hardware and oodles of disk space, I must say that it is the stupidest installer I've seen yet. All my hardware is detected, fine, but for crying out loud why does it deceive you into thinking you'll be running X Windows and then dump you at the command prompt? I have no problem using a command line, but figuring out how to fix things the installer should have done right in the first place is a pain and a crying shame.
The point of all this is...I can only hope now that other distros will get the hint on useability. If other users' experiences with even a supposedly user-friendly install program like Mandrake are anything like mine, then Linux is not ready for prime time any more than "Three's Company".
(?) [ech, venting frustration and all that jazz]
- J DUECK
I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who's actually tried this. When I decided to try Linux, I got a new computer (actually, a friend gave me her old one when she got a new one). As soon as I can afford a CD-Rom drive for that machine, I'll be installing Linux. I won't put it on my Windows machine because I don't have the time to have my software down while I'm messing with a new OS. I don't mind partitioning my hard drive and the like, but I needed Windows stuff for my last job, and if I get the job for which I just applied, I'll be needing some of the same stuff (unfortunately, Windows is fairly ubiquitous, as if we didn't know this already). I've had friends suggest various distros of Linux, none of which had Windows in the title, so chances are I'll pass on this one, but I am curious to see what others think about it beyond dissing newbies for wanting or needing it. Is it any good?
Think like a person of action, act like a person of thought. --H. Bergson
The dozens of other upstart linux distributions which attempt at making the install process easy. You have mandrake with their new Panoramix/DiskDrake based install, EasyLinux with their totally KDE based install, and Caldera OpenLinux already has a VERY easy and graphical install process.
I saw about 10 other things like this at the Linux World Conference. I think that people are realizing that there is outside demand for easy to install linux, lets hope that some of these projects can merge.. not contribute to the looming fragmentation of linux.
...
Bitchslapped? Give Rob a bitchslap from bitchslapped.com.
The UMSDOS clone worked OK, but the problem is that Linux needs thousands of tiny little files. These are stored rather inefficiently under UMSDOS, and become a nightmare if you need to defrag (for example to partition for a full Linux distro). The performance hit is also noticable. (Notice that WinLinux2000 occupies 500Mb on a FAT32 partition or 1Gb on a FAT16 partition - that is the impact of all those little files).
My guess is that the loopback filesystem, as used by Mandrake's Lnx4win, is a better choice. Hopefully the WinLinux people will add this option in future. Otherwise, a great piece of work - I love the idea of stealing all the settings from Windows.
Also worth looking at is DemoLinux, which runs off the CD.
My laptop now runs Slackware 3.4 in its own (half empty) 120Mb partition, with X, compilers, networking and freeciv. I might try Debian 2.1 if I need libc6.
I think he was being sarcastic, thats what ;) usually means -relax
The box is up but port 80 is fuxx0rated -it must be running IIS ;)
Could we be witnessing the birth of another OS battlefield? Linux/Apache vs NT/IIS on the server side, and now NT Workstation/Win2k vs CorelLinux/WinLinux 2000 on the desktop?
Personally, I can't wait to see if some H/W distributor picks up on this for pre-loading, a-la Win9X.
I think that WinLinux, etc. is a very GOOD thing. People aren't going to mess with Linux as long as it is intimidating or very difficult to install. It doesn't matter whether the Linux zealots like it or not. Anything that can allow Windows users to try Linux without being intimidated can only lead to more users adopting Linux.
Unfortunately, you just can't win with a portion of the Linux community; you get flamed to a crisp either way. Sad but true. Linux users need to get over this "us vs. them" argument.
Feel free to use whatever OS works for YOU! If anyone out there wants to give you crap for that, ignore 'em. Most of us have better things to do than waste our time on such nonsense.
LILO can handle this situation :-
... and the
Set the delay to 2 seconds
Make Win9x the default boot partition
Install this boot setup on the MBR
The machine will now default into Win9x unless
you press the shift key when "LILO" appears
(or have CapsLock on), from where you can boot
into Linux (or Win9x if you change your mind)
The only clue for the Linux is on your box is
the small "LILO" at boot time (well
fact your hard disk is smaller than was reported
by the BIOS buring boot.) HTH.
Paul
pjk
I did not mean to imply that "Having KDE" = "Not Real". I did mean to imply that "Real" = "Having more choices". I think I need to be more careful in my overuse of this really vague word!
----
You were a moderator with 5 points. You should have read the moderator guidelines before you did any moderating
Well, that covers the shell, but how about XFree? Also, I've found the MS-included telnet to be just about the worst implementation I've ever seen. I've found the free Tera Term to be quite acceptable. Tera Term seems to support most VT emulations well, works as a straight terminal emulator over the Com ports, supports huge scroll buffers, alternate screen geometries well and has a good scripting language. It even includes source, but it's copyrighted, not lefted.
Free is a big win for me. I keep the distribution Zip (943KB) in my breifcase so that I can install it on any machine that I happen to have to use at the moment. As a consultant, you never know what PC I'll have to use next. Sometimes it's more convenient to use a customers' desktop than my laptop. Even a tiny shareware payment is too much for me to keep track of. If NTCrt (Van Dyke) had a personal use license, that would allow me to use it on as many machines as I want, as long as it was me using it (requiring uninstallation if I used it on a customers machine), I might consider NTCrt.
Anybody have experience with any other source-available or Open Sourced Telnet/terminal emulators for Windows?
Oops. Apparently not. Sorry about that.
-=Best Viewed Using [INLINE]=-
and down already - of course - should have been running IIS4 (or 5!)
Complete hardware failure or just temporary crash?
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
I totally, 100% agree about your point of Linux becoming too point-and-click. You are so right about this. However, I welcome the software because now I can install it on my work computer to use it during break, etc. I'm not allowed to repartition the hard drive. Also, at home, I can install a copy of Linux onto outo my family's PC and still have it nice and easy for my parents to get into Win98 (ie, no LILO) -philskyD
That of course is shite. Linux is a great thing, but without weenies is will be a great thing that never happened. (should we set up a focus group? j/k)
stty erase ^H
A program called MI/X server was a freeware X server for windows, it's now $25 with a 15 day free trial. The old one only does X11R5, but I think the new(2.0) one does X11R6. It's available at http://www.microimages.com/mix/
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
Yeah, Lnx4Win looks good. A umsdos file system is certainly not the way to go if you have a big fat16 partition ; it takes waaay too much space.
Lnx4Win seemed like a nice solution for one of my friends who's a little short on disk space. Unfortunatly, after I installed everything, the kernel would boot but wouldn't mount the file that contained the root filesystem... Oh well, I'll tell him about WinLinux even though it uses umsdos. Who knows, when he runs out of space, he just might decide to delete Windows!
I setup my first linux machine with that, then moved on to Slackware, then in 1997 or so moved to RH 5.1...
It also worked pretty well as a "rescue" disk when my experiments screwed up a slackware box... ;-)
Can't seem to find that distribution anywhere these days...
Read about this, thought about it, was tempted to try it out...then I realized I would have to install Windows to try it out :). Almost sounds like a Microsoft marketing ploy, "Buy Windows so you can install Linux!". I mean, why else would anyone want to willingly buy/install Windows?-) Seriously, I installed Linux on a friend's 320 last week. He didn't want to re-partiton his drive or even back it up. So we went out to Fry's and got another drive to install Linux on. This distribution sounds like it may be the cure for the kinds of people who are afriad to / don't want to re-partition their disks. That's a good thing. And if it promotes the spread/use of Linux, I'm all for it :) (just wish I didn't have to install windows first :)
Quite!
I didn't have an easy way to set up linux - why should anyone else? These new punks just want plug and play, can't be bothered learning about what they're really doing, want visual basic for linux 'cos they can't really program, grumble, mumble, groan, gripe, what's the world coming to,
Does anyone have a mirror or know when the Site will recover from the problem they are having so I may try this WinLinux?
Granted that Wine is still alpha, but even still, winLinux should package Wine, and setup the KDE menu with all windows programs (Unless a kde equivelent exists, and the windows version doesn't work). This way a user goes into linux, and still can run all programs
PS, for a real challange, see if you can parse windows data structures enough that you can take a program running under Windows, start winlinux, and have it show up under Wine when the first user logs into linux! (This is theoritically possibal, but practially a real mess that due to changing fixes/versions of windows probably cannot be done reliabally)
Anyone that has half a brain and has used any "real" Unix OSs knows where Linux stands. Come on people, we've all used it and seen what it can do. It's not a religion and it's not even that good.
Granted, the hype isn't that cool, and it's certainly not worthy of being a religion, but don't sell GNU/Linux short, either. As someone with at least half a brain (as evidenced by the existence of this post) who works daily with the real Unix OSes, I'd have to say that in general the GNU tools are significantly better than their "native" counterparts. Things like chmod -R a+X somedir/ (a+X, not a+x) and cp -Rdp foo/ bar/ come to mind. The main shortcoming has been lack of ACL support, and some features of sort(1) and uniq(1).
With regard to the Linux kernel itself, the only shortcomings I've found there have been some low-level aspects of the SCSI subsystem and lack of proper LVM (although you can still do LVMy things in a pinch). (Most of the rest of my complaints have been addressed in 2.2 and 2.3) Otherwise, in most ways it seems to be superior to the proprietary Unix kernels from a functionality standpoint. I still can't mount Joilet CDs under HP-UX, dammit...
Documentation and many of the third-party tools are a real mixed bag, though. Documentation in most areas is unquestionably worse in Linux, while XFree86 (the S3 server) is considerably more stable and featureful than the X server on the HP-UX 10.20 box sitting on my desk. Most Linux distros also come with loads of very useful little tools that don't ship with most real Unix systems, except the *BSDs.
Berlin-- http://www.berlin-consortium.org
DNA just wants to be free...
Mandrake's put a beta version of their Lnx4Win in the 6.1 distribution. This also lets you install Linux without repartitioning, but it doesn't use UMSDOS. Instead, it makes a Linux image file (of a restrictable size) and runs an ext2 filesystem off of it. You boot up with loadlin. Apparently, there's a little bit of a performance hit, but it sounds pretty good.
This Is amusing.
:)
(Score:0, Flamebait)
by infojack on Wednesday September 22, @09:27AM EDT
(User Info)
I Read through all the comments of people who think they are all that and a bag of chips becuase they installed slackware. And then they call this winlinux an emulator, and make up things like it does partition becuase its imposible to install linux on fat. Which proves my point that the distro doesn't tell you how smart the person is. I run redhat and I knew about running linux on a fat partition, and i can read and find out that it reboots the computer, so most likely guys, its not emulating linux. So mabey some of you slackware guys should spend less time flaming and more time learning linux. Or are you too coool for that?
Mirrored this post because I don't have any moderator points and felt I should do a civic good for the day
When I got my PC around 3 years ago I installed then current Slakware using UMSDOS on the Win95 partition. It worked in a fashion, although due to the limitations of the VFAT16 filesystem, each file was hugh, even a device node took up one alloaction unit, and I quickly ran out of space. There were additional problems with UMSDOS and VFAT16 not being totally compatable with each other, and some Win95 files lost their long filenames. I even added an icon to the start menu to boot straight into Linux.
This distribution has been made possible by advancements made with VFAT32 support in UMSDOS.
As a matter of fact I recently installed the VFAT32 version of Windows95, to allow me to run some games, and also to browse a job related website that only works with IE4 (natch!). I will probably stick a UMSDOS filesystem on this drive to allow me to share the disk between the 2 operating systems.
This is not Linux for Windows in the same sense of "Word for Windows." I know that is what a lot of people thought because I thought that too... and that is what a lot of the comments seem to be saying. It has an installer that runs under windows, pulls settings from Windows to make installing Linux easier, and uses UMSDOS to put the linux files on the C: drive.
e.g. c:\linux\usr\bin\netscape etc.
Then when you run linux, an icon set up for you, (probably using loadlin) Windows is shut down and the linux kernel takes over completely starting with text mode and everything.
Your best bet for running Linux at the same time as Windows is VMWARE for windows NT (or vmware for linux, you can run win95/98/NT or almost any other OS under linux).
I think a lot of the resistence you cite is present, but stems from another, perhaps subconscious reason. Humans have always had "rites of passage", whereby people /earn/ their entry into a particular group. In the hacker/geek circle, this "rite of passage" was RTFMing, spending hours in the dark behind a glowing monitor, tweaking code, and intellectually grasping the system so that at the time you are considered "passed", you are in truth already a /part/ of the system. As the bar lowers more and more people can flood in, risking the original group from losing its identity.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Linux is already being affected by hoards of Windows users deciding, hey, I want to run my own fl00d bots and strike ph34r into everyone on IRC.
:)
The problem is, they install Linux, and discover they can't use it. They may be able to use their wonderful point 'n' click winnuke app to kill anyone else using windows's box instantly, but they dont know how anything actually works on their computer, so they install Linux, and think, hey this sucks, then they find the odd cracking tool, and start running around IRC saying they are a l33t hacker cause they use Linux...
All this does is give Linux as bad a name as Windows, regarding the lame users which (both) OSs have (started to, in Linux's case) attract[ed].
I remember when I used Windows9x, and sure, I could do some interesting things on it, but I can remember downloading an eggdrop and asking what are now, to me, embarrasingly lame questions about how I could run an eggdrop 24/7 on a dialup computer (ok, I was an idiot -- im not now, honest) -- at least I knew I needed a shell
I at least, downloaded linux (I can still remember the episode of the Outer Limits that i was watching as slackware downloaded, heh), installed it, and even started mucking around with the source of CircleMUD and now know a decent amouns of C (and I'm learning).
Now, however, you can download a distribution of Linux for Windows... Great.. Now you don't need to be competent at computers to use 'Linux' (I almost destroyed the FAT of one of my drives.. bad mkswap), you point, click, and get thrown into Linux, and have the ability to say 'I know nothing more about computers, but hey, I use Linux'.
IMO, it isn't the OS that is cool, its the fact that using Linux means/ment that you at least had a clue about using computers, and you werent some lame idiot trying to crash boxes, and crack into things you knew nothing about.. Or even if you were, installing Linux meant you had a CLUE, which an increasing number of people using Linux nowadays, no longer have.
They install Red Hat, and then the simplest thing to do with Linux goes wrong, they haven't the faintest idea how to fix it in Linux -- and they dont want to learn. They want someone to give them a magic command, so they can keep living in ignorance..
Ok. I'll stop rambling now.
--
David Taylor
davidt-sd@xfiles.nildram.spam.co.uk
[To e-mail me: s/\.spam//]
They do lock you into KDE, though. If you don't mind being locked into the UI, go for it. As you learn more, you can always get a "real" distribution. I am concerned that the skill for managing your system's boot process won't be learned, but as someone pointed out - so what?
On a personal note, I also find it interesting that the command line interface is viewed as intimidating. I am somewhat intimidated by GUI's. I can't always remember where some setting is hidden, but I can remember a command or the filename to change the setting far more easily.
---
You were a moderator with 5 points. You should have read the moderator guidelines before you did any moderating
First off, very well put. However, I would tend to disagree with you on point number 2. Linux is not an operating system for beginners. It is a full-fledged multi-user server platform and as such needs an administrator. Someone brand new to linux will find out quickly that they don't get those annoying 'permission denied' messages if they always run as root. Plus, they don't want to use a password to use their own computer. They'll use 'password' or 'secret'.
// ithmus
What I'm really trying to get at here is that The more you know about computers, the better you can use one. And using linux as an OS is somewhat pointless unless you know quite a bit about computers. It occurs to me that a person that would put linux on a FAT partition does not care about security, or multi-user capability, and is basically trying linux because its the 'Cool Thing'. If someone wants to try linux, that's great, but for God's sake, read the manual.
return 0;
I'm supposed to be working right now.
Dragonlinux is a nice UMSDOS linux that I found and tried a little under a year ago. Fairly stable, not too sluggish.
It's as bad as partitioning a drive under DOS.
The difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
Don't forget that some of us are required to use windows for our jobs. I have an old pentium in my office that is a great Linux server. But my primary PC unfortunately has to run Winbloze. A lot of my co-workers as well as the system admin might be willing to try this if they could just "open a Linux Window" and play with the shell and XFree a little. Then once they've learned the basics I'll finally be able to move some development servers to Linux.
Anything that makes Linux easier to learn is good. Although That's the key, to LEARN it.
hmmmm...what? Oh, I left this stupid
Any heart-attack inducing teasers in the future MUST include non-slashdottable links/mirrors!
-=Best Viewed Using [INLINE]=-
Is this the same thing: http://winlinux.tip.nu/?
-=Best Viewed Using [INLINE]=-
i think that if you are going to install linux, you've got to learn a few things. i sure as hell didn't do my first linux install as a *nix-virgin. i say spend a few weeks, maybe a month or two, on a shell. where you can learn basic commands and basic filesystem/compiling/kernel/lib/etc stuff. sure the install may be easy but when the ./script. which isn't the best plan imho.
bash~#
pops up. are you gonna know what to do with it? sure books are kinda cool but you can't really learn anything unless you get some hands on experiance.
im not saying this is a horrible idea, linux should be installable by anyone, without diffulculty. but it just feels like linux is going point and click, or
tyler
The single biggest obstacle to many of my friends and associates making the switch/taking the plunge is that they need a lifeline. Repartitioning your hard disk and what not does not offer that.
... except as a great 'entry' level, learning tool.
THIS DOES. Sure it's not a 'great' linux system. But it sure looks like an excellent way to dip ones toes in the water and get used to the linux world... While still being able to switch back to MS Windows and load up your office documents...
I don't think this will ever be a 'major' linux distro
/* CDM */
This is NOT the first Linux for Windows. One I have tried that is really good is PhatLinux. I tried it just to see if it worked, then it got deleted off my system (along with Windows). PhatLinux is at www.phatlinux.com and I believe does have an Installshield install, and puts an icon on your desktop to reboot to linux. The only thing that WinLinux2000 is supposed to do that PhatLinux doesn't is load the right drivers automatically. PhatLinux comes with a generic kernel with all modules possible compiled in. Most systems should work OK with it...
Sometimes I get really confused by the postings on here, often from the same people. Now here's where the confusion is: If someone mentions a computer running WinXX then someone else always says "That sux, why don't you run a real operating system?"
Of course, when someone actually creates a product that makes it easy for people to install and begin to use Linux then the tune changes all together. "They're just trying to be 31337 h4x0rs!"
So which is it? Do you want more people running Linux or not? Or will you complain no matter which way it turns out. If everyone moves to Linux then will it just be something to be shuned as being too mainstream? If no one new starts using it will you complain that they don't know what's going on?
Here's my rambling point: Allowing the average Joe User to install and experience Linux easily is a Good Thing(tm). If he likes his experience then he might swtich over all together... it extends choice to those who are not of the technologicaly elite.
So make up your minds. Either help people use see that they have a choice, or convince them to be locked into the MS world. Don't change your tune to make yourself feel better.
MEDIC!
what happened? This linux geek was just sitting here surfing.. and now he's passed out.
What was he reading?
Says here that "Winlinux" is available. Maybe some kind of new Microsoft offering?
--
Before the great speculation begins,
heres some info.
whois www.winlinux.net gives
[...]
Registrant
Dinamerico Schwingel (WINLINUX-DOM)
[...]
A search in dejanews for Schwingel AND Dinamerico gives this (Date: 1999/06/25):
In newsgroup installshield.is5.general :
[...]
I'm trying to build my software distributions which is very large. Some thousands files and 219MB total.
The Media Build Wizard goes ok, until it tries to create layout.bin. Then it stucks for about an hour and comes whith this message
[...]
There show up some linux-specific postings (some old) too, so no microsoft, no panic...
[...]
I disagree.
I've ran into a number of folks in the IT industry who express interest in Unix. For the most part, their entire computer experience has been Microsoft products. They don't have access to Unix - but they're interested. My advice? Used hardware that'll handle Linux is dirt cheap. Buy an old Pentium, install Linux, smack it around a bit. Experiment. Learn. If you destroy it, call it a lesson learned. Re-install and repeat.
Experience is indeed the best teacher. Linux (and lets not forget *BSD) offers a low barrier option to that experience.
If you've ever dreamt about choosing the software for your PC, WinLinux 2000 is for you.
If you've ever wanted to have a powerful and reliable system on your computer, WinLinux 2000 is for you.
If you want to enter the Open Source world, WinLinux 2000 is the easiest path.
WinLinux 2000 is the only Linux system that installs as easily as any Windows application automatically detecting and configuring most of your hardware devices.
WinLinux 2000 Beta Release
JRCP is releasing the Final Beta version of WinLinux 2000 for evaluation and testing purposes. We have made every effort to create the easiest to use Linux system in the world and we ask you to give it a try.
Why would you use Linux?
Linux is one of the most powerful systems you can have on your PC. Linux was made for the Internet by the Internet and it is a standard choice of Internet Service Providers around the world. Besides that, Linux is a fully Open Source system that comes with a handful of applications, development tools, games, Internet applications and more. Click for additional features...
Why would you choose WinLinux?
All that power usually demands a complete reconfiguration of the software on your computer and that can be very difficult if you are not experienced with PC hardware and software. WinLinux is a complete Linux system and it is the only one that installs directly to your Windows PC just as any other application. Just point and click to set up.
So, what are you waiting for?
If you think Linux is just for geeks, you are loosing your chance to try it out and start mastering the operating system of the 21st century.
Download now! You will be amazed by its power and reliability and with Netscape Communicator included you will have a fast and stable Internet browsing machine.
If you want more information, please check the other areas of our website using the menu in the upper left of this page. See also our Press Releases
Must say it is not bad for a beta version. You download a single InstallShield executable, run the program, the only information you have to enter is a username. The installation queries the Windows registry for the relevant devices and figures out what Linux drivers should be loaded. It DOES run from a UMSDOS filesystem, so it's not a perfect solution, but for a newbie who would like to try it out without having to repartition their hard drive, it seemed to be pretty user-friendly. Another downside was that it chose the frame-buffer video device instead of the native X driver for my ATI card, but again, WinLinux is a good solution for somebody itching to try Linux, but not wanting to take too much risk.
I think that any product that makes transition from Windows-to-Linux easier on new users is immeasurably useful. At least, until more manufacturers start preloading Linux.
As I write this, I'm sure that a pile of shocked, righteous posts are piling up. Most will assault the very concept of running Linux in conjunction with Windows, others will wax nostalgic about their entry into the world of UNIX while preaching that because it was difficult for me it should be difficult for others, some will be lamenting the fact that it isn't "real" Linux, while still others will pound on the performance issues of using the UMSDOS file system.
The fundamental problem with those attacks is that they all assume that those who will use WinLinux have the same goals, purposes, ideals and reasons for using Linux in the first place.
The first type assumes that by the time a person has decided to use or try Linux, they are already a zealot. That is simply not the case. There are a great many Linux users who secretly hid their Windows usage from other geeks while they climbed the learning curve. The simple fact is that many people's entry into home computing follows the MS path. Once those people have a PC (with Win installed), they may discover Linux and want to try it. One of their primary reasons for wanting to try it? It can be provided free. But, to those people, is a possible disaster ruining an already functioning machine (most people consider their Windows boxes to function) free? Is buying a dedicated box for Linux when they aren't sure they'll like it free? No. Along comes a flavor of Linux which allows you to try it without doing much to your system. Why wouldn't that be good?
Enter attack 2. UNIX/Linux was hard for me, it should be hard for you. I always wonder why I have to hear this one. Particularly from folks who hated it when their parents used this logic on them. Remember, "Walked to school in the snow" or "I worked 3 jobs to finish college"? Science is based on building on the work of others. Sure, you still need to learn how it fits together, but you don't have to recreate all of scientific history. There SHOULD be a way to learn Linux without having to kill one's entire outside life. It may be simplified, it may be limited, but when a beginner hits those walls, sees the potential in someone else's system, then they will move on.
Attack 3. "It isn't real Linux". Because it doesn't reside on its own set of partitions? Because it relies on Windows for driver information? Or because it isn't the same as YOUR Linux? It has a Linux kernel. I think of a parallel in photography. Most people, including most Slashdot readers take the few pictures they do with a point and shoot camera. Hardcore amateur photographers and professionals would say that you aren't going to get good pictures with that type of camera, and some would go so far as to say that unless you are using a high-end medium format or 35mm camera with ultra-fast lenses, you aren't using a real camera. But it has a lens and holds film doesn't it? That makes it a camera. Your point and shoot fits your basic photography needs, and WinLinux fits the basic learning/experimentation Linux needs of many users.
Attack 4. It won't be as high performance as "pure" Linux on SCSI hardware. I guess I always thought one of the benefits of Linux was that it would run on cheap hardware that you already had around. Why doesn't this idea extend to cheap filesystems you already have around?
Sorry to have rambled on and for any lack of clarity in my statements. Flame away.
LetterJ
Writing Geek/Pixel Pusher
jwynia@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jwynia
The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
I downloaded it yesterday, and it works well for what it does.
Unpacks into a UMSDOS directory, c:\linux
Autodetects all of your hardware based on your _windows_ settings. Really nice. I'd like to see more of this in the other distros. Save it to a floppy, and that would solve a lot of questions newbies have (like irq,i/o etc)
If it's wrong (such as missing my video card), you can override the setting. It did really well, finding my printer (hp laserjet), joystick but not sound card (no sound setting?), mouse, modem, timezone.
It asks for a user and password, and even gives you the option to make root the same password.
Gives you a menu option (aka icon) to reboot system into Linux.
I've tried a few of these UMSDOS ones. Armed Linux didn't work with this system, but WinLinux2000 did work. I ended up with a nice (if slow due to UMSDOS) Linux system. Won't replace any of my real linux boxen, but for newbies wanting to try Linux, this is a new option.
Another option is DemoLinux, an entirely CD based Linux. I've had good luck with that one too.
http://www.demolinux.org
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