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Netscape 4.7 Arrives on the Scene
Stephen Donner wrote to let us know that Netscape 4.7
is out and ready for download, albeit for UNIX/Macintosh systems. The FTP server is behaving like a slug so be patient. Here's to hoping that when I download it, it fixes some of these JavaScript "issues".
Most of this could be added using Mozilla's scriptable skins so you could you "expert chrome". As to whether the back-end supports this yet, I don't know.
There are plans to eventually allow this sort of thing to be defined permanently on a site by site basis too (post initial release I think).
I'll submit bug reports on these things since they make a lot of sense.
I guess it's fine if you shut it down and restart it every day. If you forget to, it does it for you!
- A.P.
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"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Another deficiency in Mozilla is that it doesn't seem to support JavaScript... I've only taken a cursory glance at it, but my JavaScript code seems to be dead... Normally, I wouldn't complain -- Javascript's more hype than substance -- but I've been using JavaScript lately to manipulate layers (a la www.php.net) and I'd like to be able to do that in Mozilla too.
Linux: n., antidote to the common "Windows" virus.
IE5 has got it right. First off, the "desktop integration" is down to IE3 levels, rather than IE4. But there are three main reasons I'm using it over Netscape right now:
1) It renders large tables almost on the fly.
2) You can customize the toolbar and take out all those buttons you never use (you can have a toolbar consisting of merely back, forward, and stop if you wanted.)
3) Drop down menu for language encoding. I can go to one of the many japanese sites in my bookmarks and it automatically decodes the JIS. I NEVER got this to work in Netscape.
-Lx?
The name of the environment variable that turns off the dns_helper is actually MOZILLA_NO_ASYNC_DNS
and close it by using the fvwm2 Close function, and it finishes with a `Bus Error' (though it seems to clear up after itself OK)
But: run
with the latest version of LessTif, and it exits cleanly.
Funny old World!
Live from a hillside in Herefordshire, England.
They sure does. It's one of the main objectives to get Purify and friends happy.
Ironically, one of the biggest contributors in this area is not from within Netscape (Thanks Bruce!).
It's a troll.
Howard Owen hbo@egbok.com Everything's Gonna Be OK Consulting
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there" - Will Rogers
I use Fortify, it works beautifully. It actually also works better than the 128 bit domestic grade version, in terms of providing better SSL security; go to the Fortify web site and read up on it.
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In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
It lets you change buttons, menus, default options, throbber and lots of other neat stuff. It's primarily designed for ISP who would like to package their own Navigator versions.
I also believe they have a different CCK package for every Communicator version, so you'll probably need to wait for 4.7 CCK to come out.
Alternatively, some hackery can be done using Windows resource editor that ships with most Windows IDEs.
Umm, try putting the Quicktime plug-in in the plug-ins folder, if the Quicktime installer hasn't already done that for you.
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NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
Cool new features also include:
, true);
user_pref("browser.chrome.disableMyShopping", true);
user_pref("browser.chrome.disableNetscapeRadio"
That's true, of course. But please, please don't forget that it is also a newer version. It is incredibly unfair to compare Netscape 4.7 to IE 5.
As an analogy let's imagine that Ford had a monopoly in the auto field. They own every auto lot, and it is very hard for Chevy to sell vehicles. Not only that but Chevy doesn't have the R&D budget that Ford does to develop new vehicles so their vehicles are falling more and more behind. They stop development on their current lines to develop a new line. Now Ford has no competition. They *still* sell the cars but don't improve them apart from a bit of needed maintainence. Does anyone buy their cars? Probably, but they are old tech by know with none of the features that Fords cars have. Does that mean that Chevy's new line is going to be bad also? No, when Chevy releases their new line people will be able to decide *then* that it is better then Ford.
I use IE 5 now. Is that a problem? Of course not. However, when Mozilla is released I'll evaluate whether it's better and then make the decision of whether to use it. I've been following progress and I think it *is* going to be better. So yes, Windows 95 is better then Win 3.1, Caldera 2.3 is better then Caldera 1.3, a color TV is better then a B/W one, IE 5 is better then Netscape 4 *now*. Don't assume that'll always be the case, because that's the way it is in the present.
But we are all very smart here and already knew that, right? :)
-Brent--
I have made debs for netscape 4.7 available. I won't be putting these in potato, until fortify can recognize them.
The good news, is that my dual-celeron 333, running netscape, and rendering fm, is as fast as a p120-nt box, running IE. Before, it was 1/3 as slow.
Click here for information on how to use apt to fetch the new debs.
This doesn't sound like it's a "MPL" release, which is really too bad...
I'm sure with you on the "sure would be nice to have a CHANGELOG " thing. I'll be happy to wait a few days and see if the release is truly an improvement, or if it has any critical bugs that flaw the release.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Well, maybe it is offtopic to compare the two browsers, but I support IE 5, and if it has not failed/hosed the os (if you are on windows) then you are lucky. I get at least one call each day from a tech with a customer that has an IE that will not open- no error, it just does not open. Repair, uninstall/reinstall does not fix it, and since there is no error, there is not really any way to troubleshoot the problem (fourtuneately since IE "becomes part of the OS" we can then refer them to the mfr. who will have them format and reinstall, and this is support for a company that is partly OWNED by microsoft). Add the supremely large acive x security hole to the mix, and I wouldn't install it on my computer, even if they did make one for my OS -which they won't. But I will give it this, IE 5's problems are at least less frequent than IE 4's (I still support it too), and 4's problems gave you a trashed os a lot more often than 5 does. At any rate, if you are using windows, the last thing I would advise is to install an application that makes the os less stable and secure, If Netscape crashes or becomes completely unusable, at least that is all that crashed.
_this is not a signature_
I found most of this by poking around in the Netscape.ad file that was in the installation directory (/usr/local/netscape is default, I believe).
Netscape*toolBar.search.isEnabled: false
Netscape*toolBar.destinations.isEnabled: false
Netscape*toolBar.myshopping.isEnabled: false
Netscape*toolBar.viewSecurity.isEnabled: false
Netscape*toolBar.print.isEnabled: false
Netscape*toolBar.home.isEnabled: true
I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me how to get rid of that "What's Related" button.
I don't know where the documentation (if any) is, I figured most of this out by reading the XFE code. From my .Xdefaults:
Netscape*toolBar.search.isEnabled: false
a me: separator
a me: compressAllFoldersi ng: Revealc on: Searcha tionString: Reveal filed messages
I haven't downloaded, but I bet I'm going to be adding a "shopping.isEnabled: false" line real soon now..Netscape*toolBar.destinations.isEnabled: false
Netscape*toolBar.numUserCommands: 1
Netscape*toolBar.userCommand1.commandName: findInObject
Netscape*toolBar.userCommand1.labelString: Find
Netscape*toolBar.userCommand1.commandIcon: Find
Netscape*MailThread*toolBar.numUserCommands: 2
Netscape*MailThread*toolBar.userCommand1.commandN
Netscape*MailThread*toolBar.userCommand2.commandN
Netscape*MailThread*toolBar.userCommand2.labelStr
Netscape*MailThread*toolBar.userCommand2.commandI
Netscape*MailThread*toolBar.userCommand2.document
Heh. I implemented these in the 3.02 codebase years ago. Plus S/MIME. Too bad they wouldn't let me release it as 3.1 back before 4.0 shipped. It would have been a "distraction", apparently.
Um, hello? The original poster never said he was running Linux or any flavor of Unix. Not everyone here runs Linux.
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
Layers are non-standard and the decision was made to not support layers through Javascript. Mozilla will not support it. Instead, CSS should be used from now on.
The hell it's not. It was not designed that way, it was designed so that both processes would be idle until such time as the DNS server responded. See unix-dns.h. Someone must have botched things so that netlib is looping calling DNS_ServiceProcess() repeatedly, even though the fd returned by DNS_SpawnProcess() has not yet been marked readable.
This isn't too surprising, though, since netlib is such a mess that this "looping" failure mode is one of the most common things to go wrong.
Funny. I can't get in through Netscape at all, but the Linux "ftp" command is very responsive. Downloading the Linux glibc2.0 version now!
Any news on a glibc2.1 version? (Anyone know if it really matters?)
But I gotta be honest -- I'm really unhappy with the last few versions of Netscape. They've been pulling a MS: building tonnes of extra (and, IMHO, unneeded) features in and sacrificing stability.
Netscape is the *only* application on my desktop that crashes chronically. I have to pull up a command line and kill -9 it at least 3-4 times a day. It's not like I'm doing anything but surfing /. and a few HOWTOs.
So, if there's anybody out there who has any pull at Netscape reading this: FIX THE STABILITY. This is your last chance with me and (I'm sure) a lot of other users.
Otherwise, hopefully Mozilla will be good when it finally comes out (anyone have any idea when that'll be?).
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Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Okay, this has done wonders for me. I was constantly having Netscape puke on me. I turned off Java and Javascript. That help tons. Then, I got tired of not having javascript one day. I turned it back on and found that the majority of my stability issues were related to have Java turned on. So, I went on with Java disabled. Then, I came across this. Make sure you see: /root]# chkfontpath --list /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc:unscaled /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi:unscaled /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi:unscaled /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1 /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi
[root@mouse
Current directories in font path:
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7:
8:
If you don't see this, add them! I now have had Java enabled for the last week and only had one crash (async DNS related). In short, I've been much happier. I no longer have to practice yoga for 12-hours a day to calm down and am now back drinking ten pots of coffee per day.
Hope it helps the rest of you!!!
I agree wholeheartedly... I love new releases. And considering how long its been since 4.6, that means they fixed a whole lot right?
Do I hear Homer?
Hello little man. I will destroy you!
I use KFM for most of my browsing as well. Except for right now, I'm on someone elses computer using Opera. KFM is pretty cool, I have a friend who made a torture test page that loads frames recursively. It will load a framset that splits the window into 2 sections, the page that it loads is itself. A refresh tag every couple of seconds and it quickly turns into hundreds and thousands of frames. KFM is the only browser that we have seen to handle this correctly, Netscape crashes, IE crashes, KFM keeps working until the computer completely runs out of memory (real and swap) and the process dies. This can take over a half hour, Netscape doesn't last 10min. Only time I saw a load of 16+ on a linux box.
-- Remember: Wherever you go, there you are!
This appears to be the 56 bit Standard (Exportable) Encryption version. I think I'll put off downloading/using this version until the 128 bit version is released. It will probably be a few days before their web pages are updated; which is too bad because they'll never let you ftp the files straight from them with all the encryption laws.
Anyone see the 128 bit Strong Encryption version floating around?
Fortify's homepage says they don't support Netscape 4.7. So good luck Miss AC.
Joseph Elwell.
This is the kind of break through we've been waiting for for hundreds and hundreds of days!
But that's not all! A "Radio" thingy. Of course, the page is not found, but it's definitely a break through in convenience.
The release notes file is missing, too.
Upgrade immediately to get the satisfaction of 0.0.9th of a release.
"What's the point of going abroad, if you're just another tourist..."
If they fully implement PNG tomorrow, it'll still be 1-2 years before I can justify using it in site design (because you gotta let the don't-wanna-upgrade sect catch up). I don't wanna use UNISYS's .gifs anymore, but .jpgs don't work in all situations.
Another thing: let me shut off the ability for sites to spawn new windows. It don't want every damn site I go to sending me to porn sites and casino sites so the damned site owner can make a few cents. Shut it off, I'll turn it back on if I ever feel like smacking gophers.
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Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
I used to have the same problem, crashing when closing windows. That actually seemed to be the fault of the mail component. Since I switched to mutt for email, I haven't had a single crash when closing a browser window (it still crashes more than any other non-beta Linux app I've ever seen). I think this has been all but confirmed as a glibc 2.1 issue (I'm also running potato). Perhaps we will be able to get 4.7 compiled against glibc2.1 and fix this mess
if by 'hosing' you mean stop the os or stuff it up terribly - NO.
if you KILL BASH does that 'hose' linux? no.
1) Setup IE to start up in a new process - enable open folder in new process as well. That way no matter if you're browsing locally or on the internet - and something goes wrong the OS is not 'hosed'
2) Say you don't do (1), if Explorer crashes it will restart - if it doesn't for some god unknown reason (never happened here) just C-A-D and restart it.
3) See, no hosing.
Do they use the JRE installed on your linux system, or still include their slow buggy version?
It would be nice if it would use the JRE that the other java apps on the system used for displaying applets.
ok so it's not quite with the topic, but it kinda links with Mozilla.
Anyone heard of NetCaptor? Win32 only, but it does a lot of the things people have been muttering about here. And it'll be able to use Mozilla's layout engine when it's ready..
Well, I like like it, anyway (for when I'm stuck in win32 land, that is)
www.netcaptor.com is where it's at.
Matt
more available as I get them . . .
SlashMirror: Where to put files for fellow /.'ers
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4.7 and still the CSS sucks... gods know we can't cascade elements properly!
And on a Mac note, Netscape still hasn't updated to the latest version of the Mercutio MDEF. Using an old copy of the MDEF with MacOS 8.5 + will cause crashes. It takes like 30 seconds to fix in ResEdit and can be done for free... yet a year later, Netscape still hasn't fixed the problem! Argh!
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Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft is a misnomer? Perhaps Macrosoft would be a better fit?
Just put this into your ~/preferences.js file and say good bye to netcenter.. someurl.org/");
config("toolbar.places.default_url","http://www
Although on Linux you have to echo that line into pereferences.js everytime you start netscape. The line will be removed when netscape exits.
1. I don't know, but I'm the one providing *any* facts here. Besides, if it works under SP3, why would they have to break it for SP5? Like I said, it's a machine from Gateway that was *designed* to run 98/NT. Hmm.
:) I agree, it's probably better to browse with IE5, but only because IE5 parses *content generated by Microsoft products* better, and gets a faster connection from IIS, and Microsoft-enhanced pages (like microsoft.com). Surprised? I hope not... Incidentally, I also don't use IE5 because its support for UNIX *sucks*! It only works on one special Solaris configuration with kernel patches, and probably about as well under HP/UX. Also, since they had to rip out all the DLL's separately, you get to see how much RAM IE5 uses by itself. Ugh.
:) If you are indeed the same lame Anonymous Coward to which I was speaking earlier. I *never* said anything about IE5 shipping with ActiveDesktop. Put those words back in your mouth because I don't know where it's been. Anyhow, I've tested RAM requirements for IE, and run ActiveDesktop, and it's *slow* if it isn't on a fast machine. In fact, it's optimized for a faster machine. And if you haven't checked the ATI cards lately, getting that far is good, since they're all like: ATI Rage Pro Turbo AGP Ultra Frickin' Long Named Graphics Card. Maybe if they had a short, simple name for it, I'd remember. If I remembered the Gateway model #, I'd let you look it up. And I'm sure that anyone who followed the chain of original posts can tell who's posting their experiences and who's being inflammatory. I'll leave that as an exercise to the reader. :)
2. *I* was commenting on IE5 and ActiveDesktop separately, but if you want a correlation, they're both from Microsoft, they both *eat* RAM, and I'm sure they share DLL's, especially in Win '98. (remember that web-browser-integration-thing?) Also, ActiveDesktop *is* an option. It should be turned off, since it can't be easily un-installed. That was all *I* was trying to say about it.
3. If they're using IE5, then they probably aren't using Linux too, so if they want something to feel guilty about...
4. I don't know, but they do it all the time. Why advertise a free product? Why bundle an inferior product with your OS?
5. Those facts were consistent and in the spirit of your original post.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
ftp://128.253.254.56/communicator47/libc5complete/ communicator-v47-expo rt.x86-unknown-linux2.0.tar.gz (libc5) (15.1MB)
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glibc2.1 is binary compatible with glibc2.0 (theoretically anyway.. the netscape glibc2.0 releases have sucked on glibc2.1 for me anyway.. YMMV)
-l
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SlashMirror: Where to put files for fellow /.'ers
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Netscape 4.7 adds yet another button to the navigation toolbar, which is annoying because it further increases the amount of screen real estate required for me to be able to see the "Stop" button on the right. Right now, the "Shop", "My Netscape", and "Search" buttons are all candidates for removal -- if I could figure out how.
Does anyone know how to remove buttons from the toolbar? Is there some hack to the preferences.js file that would do it?
Netscape 4.xx and above: The feature is there, but it's buried under umpteen menus and hard to turn on or off.
That "feature" alone has made me never want to "upgrade" from 3.01.
Here's my "All I Ever Wanted From Netscape Or Mozilla" list, for which I've been waiting since Netscape 3.01:
If I have to download 50M of bloatware to get any or all of those four simple features, I'll do it over a 14.4k link and give you my snail-mail address and all the demographic data your marketers want. If I have to download 3M of the most elegantly-crafted code on God's green earth over a T-1, but lose the ability to easily enable/disable image autoloading that I have with NS3.01, it's still a downgrade, not an upgrade as far as I'm concerned :)
Um, I've been using both the nightly and the Milestone builds for a while, and while it looks great - I won't use it as my primary browser -just yet-. The mail client, which never authenticates my password on my POP3 account, leaves much to be desired. And while Moz should be feature complete by November 2nd, I wouldn't count on that, either. Lots of bux fixes keep going up, but Bugzilla still shows lots more. Also, I think M11 is going to be delayed, I know they were having problems with the XP widgets and what nots. -Stephen Donner who's still waiting for the 4.7 Win binaries.
(Sounds better than "me too").
Each of these options is to die or (if you're thinking more clearly), to kill for.
<rant> KFM -- the times that I used it -- seemed a nice, minimal, fairly lightweight browser. I use Lynx a fair bit but it suffers grossly from poor page design. Opera is supposed to have a good, clean, client. How about a browser that's just a fscking browser, people? Any other suggestions out there?
</rant>
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
From: Daniel Veditz 7:55 PM Subject: Re: 4.7 Release for Windows? Resent-From: mozilla-builds@mozilla.org To: mozilla-builds@mozilla.org Newsgroups: netscape.public.mozilla.builds Stephen Donner wrote: > > http://slashdot.org/articles/99/09/28/1825256.shtm l > > I posted the release of 4.7 for the Mac and Unix platforms, when are we > going to see the Windows 9x/NT builds? 4.7 has not officially been released. If you happen to have found something calling itself on our servers consider it an early bonus. -Dan Veditz
The thing that got to me the most was the hanging - I'd close the browser and later start it again, only to find that a ghost had remained resident and prevented my new window to open! Then it would give me that not responding BS...
I surf with usually more than one browser window open - I'd hit one of my favorite pages and go to visit another window, only to click on the window later and see only a screen with the other window's contents, and the browser hanging on "contacting host." Or how about when you surf to a page and none of the links would be clickable - you try to shut down but it hangs!
One of my favorite sites, Thresh's Firingsquad, would freeze Netscape for about ten seconds while loading! This is on a dual Pentium III system folks, 256mb RAM, NT 4.0 with Service Pack 5, connected to a LAN. I don't think stability and dependability are too much to ask for considering these resources - apparently Netscape does because their software has gone in the crapper once version 4 came out.
Those damn illegal operations: surf with more than one window and close a window? Maybe it doesn't like that, illegal operation. Add a bookmark? Maybe it doesn't like that, illegal operation. Hell, when I'd finally restart again it would destroy the changes I made to my bookmark file - these past few months I've found myself arbitrarily copying my current URL with CTRL-C just in case Netscape crashes and it would destroy my history, no lie.
I'm tired of the crap, Netscape. Fix it: make it stable, light on its feet, and get rid of the crap nobody but braindead AOLers want - fix what's wrong with your software or I'll stay away forever.
I feel like a Nazi using IE5, but it is stable, light, dependable. I'll continue to use it until someone gives me what I want: a clean, sturdy, and stable version of Netscape, whether Netscape is the one to bring it to me or not.
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Oscarfish.com: tropical fish with attitude. Way t
Think Mozilla.
I use 4.5 for EVERYTHING! Mail through imap, web of course, newsgroup, address book ... I can't live without it.
:)
Well let me get this straight, 4.7 doesn't change much. Some bug might have been corrected, a "shop" button added, but that is all folks!
I have been testing Mozilla M9 for a few weeks now, and this is really neat. 1 hour to compile it (PII 300 - 96 Mb), but it is worth it. I wouldn't rely on it for my e-mail yet, but it sounds really promising.
For those of you who are having these anoying bus error, there is a doc somewhere explaining what you have to do to get rid of that. If I remember well, it has something to do with the libc (bummer).
Well, Netscape is as heavy as usual. Netscape is, I think, the only program I use on a daily basis that doesn't use any free in the source code
Looking for a great online backup: Green Backup
win32 (16.2MB) ftp://128.253.254.56/communi cator47/winpro/cp32e47.exe
mac (12.9MB) ftp://128.2 53.254.56/communicator47/maccomplete/Comm4.7_Compl ete_EX.bin
glibc2 (16.2MB) ftp://128.253.254.56/communicator47/glibc20complet e/communicator -v47-export.x86-unknown-linuxglibc2.0.tar.gz
libc5 (15.1MB) ftp://128.253.254.56/communicator47/libc5complete/ communicator-v47-expo rt.x86-unknown-linux2.0.tar.gz
SlashMirror: Where to put files for fellow /.'ers
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The current potato has a Netscape which is linked against libc5, which has at least substantially reduced if not eliminated this problem for me (it hasn't happened since that change, but that says nothing.. :) ). A bit of a kludge (I think probably the actual problem is binary incompatibility with glibc2.1) but it works.
:-P
You should update your system more often if you want to live on the bleeding edge
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
... that doesn't have any problems with Netscape?
I'm running NT4/SP5, 96mb of RAM, dual PPro 200 (yes, old school, I know). No problems. It starts up quickly, it runs well, it's kind of a dog when it comes to rendering pages.
I installed IE4 a while back to test it, and when it took a full 30 seconds to open, I uninstalled it. I think the main thing would be to only download what you need. If you don't need it for mail/news, DON'T DOWNLOAD COMMUNICATOR. Just download the browser.
I've visited all the URLs that people are saying hang their Netscapes, and it seems to be working just dandy for me. I have Javascript on, Java off.
I'm seeing a lot of "Netscape's crap" posts... does it work for anyone else, or am I alone on this one?
-- I can't think of anything witty to put here. Sorry.