Slashdot Mirror
The Rare Glitch Project
Thinker was the first of about thirty million people who wrote to us regarding
CNN's coverage of "The Rare Glitch Project". Yes, join three student filmmakers as they descend into a building in Redmond, WA. Their mission: To find the legendary compact and stable version of Windows. Very amusing - I like the e-mail burial ground quite a bit.
I'd expect to see this in a forward from someone with an AOL account, not on /.
89% knows it is buggy, 11% knows it is buggy but is in denial. :-)
---
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
what's an astroturfer?
"Why don't you just only read messages rated 2 and up? That gets you most of the good ones ... an no "first post" comment gets rated a 2 or 3 ..."
One reason is the fact that the conversations start to not make sense after a while. A (Score:4) reply to a (Score:1) post may lose total relevence, unless the person doing the follow-up managed to quote the important parts (which most do but there are some exceptions). A kill-file would make a huge improvement, however, and (I beleive) could be stored in the user's cookies, making for a minimal impact on the server. Another reason is that although I think this is a good idea, you'll not see it unless someone thoughtfully moderates this up a notch or two (not that I want to be known as a karma-whore, hence the AC).
Mc
Often, accuracy is sacrificed for the sake of humor. "It never works" or "It always crashes" gets a cheaper laugh than "It works most of the time unless there are complex programs on it..." Gross exaggeration is part of humor.
Were you truly expecting to get sophisticated, well-reasoned, and totally-accurate prose when you clicked on this article? I didn't. Some of the gripes about this sound like the sort of people who would complain about the historical inaccuracy of "Snow White and the Seven Dwarves."
The only complaint that I've seen so far that I can agree with is the one stating that the article came more under the "humor" heading than the "Microsoft" heading. However, considering that the graphic for the Microsoft heading is humorous, this may be an indication that the two may be considered synonymous.
Strike while the irony is hot! -- The Freethinker
AutoCad 3D Studio MAX Any Chemical Eng. process simulator worth its salt A DVD player (so far)
...they had such a simplistic poll.."Is Windows95 buggy?" It's the preferred method of mac-fudangelists. Slashdot effect aside, this poll is relying on thousands of secretaries and office-rats cc:'ing it to all their freinds, who will happily leave the default selection at yes and hit submit, because it's liberating to bash Microsoft somehow. The people they were counting on to respond wouldn't know a bug from the fact that they just put all their .dlls into one folder to 'tidy up'. GREAT. Now when my mac-mullet-headed buddy comes up with his "The mac is a superior operating system.", he can somehow make the leap of logic to include ">90% of people in a poll on CNN said Windows is buggy." And everyone he's used to talking to knows that Windows means P.C.'s. Just freaking GREAT.
Lonesmurf wrote;
>See the problem is that if they had a poll that said, "Is Linux buggy?" If the respondants were answering honestly (HA!) they would have to say, "Yes".
Let's get real here people, ALL software has glitches and/or bugs. It's a fact of life. You just cannot feasibly find all the problems with software within the given time that MARKETING idiots through at you.
How about "And how many of you that voted for Win9x being unstable are actually running an alternative such as Linux as your primary OS?"
I think that question might give a rather less biased result.
Funny yet true as well. Makes me want to go back and stuff ballots for bill.
It's not that it's politically incorrect to make fun of Microsoft. It's that it's stupid. It's too easy. It's the epitome of the old phrase 'shooting fish in a barrel.'
It's a profound waste of time and energy that could be better spent elsewhere, like fixing bugs in your favorite Open Source package, or spending time with your SO, or reading the panels on the side of a Rice Krispies box.
It's trying to show off how clever you can be, by doing something that anyone with a sixteenth of a clue can do just as cleverly.
--
Guys (and Gals), this is an Internet poll. If you take any of them (Internet polls) seriously, then you should really get your head examined, and I have some really nice Ocean-front property to sell you in Arizona.
Steven Rostedt
Steven Rostedt
-- Nevermind
But, Netscape, being a closed-source program, is hardly typical. Everything else I run, other than StarOffice (which I only use on occasion), is Free Software, and it doesn't tend to have those kinds of problems (and when it does, it gets fixed pretty quickly).
--
Interested in XFMail? New XFMail home page
If you don't want to hear us, don't read comments. Here's a proposal, boys: Let's remove registering, and only allow Anonymous Cowards to post.
uh... I maintain a MS Proxy 2.0 server (which also functions as a IIS 4.0 web server with 3 web sites) and it doesn't have any problems. been up for over 4 months (when we set up the machine).
As far as I know, Microsoft Bob has no Linux equivalent. :-)
Didn't LinuxOne just come out with it yesterday?
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
Neither does NT.
;).
Win98 generally protects memory between applications...but not all memory....some Win16 DOS compatibility issues or something like that
-Legion
Very True. Most Windows users havent seen a better operating system. Crashes are normal for them (Thanks to windows)
A decent _FAST_ office suite.
:) switching to and fro the documentation is lame.
:).
-Star Office & Wordperfect is SLOOOOOW - even on windows - and worse on Linux. I can start word in under 2 seconds, and even with all the stuff it does, it's faster and more responsive than any other WP.
-A fully featured browser that is fast and works well. Plain and simple. Netscape is not an option.
-Visual Studio. Frankly I can't live without intellisense anymore
-DirectX. I have more speed.
And to me, Windows (using W2K here) is just more responsive on my hardware. It requires more memory (tho that much more if you use X)
-Java2 support. Blackdown seems to be dead, I'm looking forward to Sun offically supporting Linux next year. Pity sun's VM is slow. Oh, speaking of Java, I can't live without J++'s compiler either. What would you want? A compiler that compiles 100 classes and packages it into an install exe in 3 seconds, or a compiler that compiles 1 class in 6 seconds?
-AntiAliasing - XFree86 just looks god damn ugly I'm afraid.
Basically It's not really software that's missing, it's quality software that's missing from Linux. Linux has quality server and CLI software, but lacks quality desktop software.
I know these problems will go away given another year or too...but that doesn't change the fact that it's not ready for full time use for me NOW.
Yeah, just like it was wrong to make fun of the disabled kids in elementary school.
"Now, now Brian. It's not nice to make fun of poor Jimmy. There's nothing wrong with him, he's just different"
Microsoft is kinda like Jimmy was, not quite all there but still worthy of treating fairly.
Or...er...something
There is nothing so pathetic as seeing a beautiful young theory roughed up by a tough gang of facts.
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9911/03/rare.gli tch.project.idg/index.html
Buying trends: Windows 2000 will not dominate upgrade plans
Using Netscape are you? Netscape (BSD version, both navigator and communicator, up to and including ver 4.7) coredumps every time i visit slashdot without turning java off first. Internet explorer 5.0 for windows NT is such a great browser. Stable, secure, fully functional, never hangs or crashes (troll, flamebait, redundant or off topic?) Oh well, once Opera for linux is finished we may have a stable, secure and functional browser for unix too. And I'm curious how the integrated browser in KDE 2.0 will turn out.
Sure -- Windows is the bug, the OS is still to be released; silly.
How many non-techies read techie sections of anyweb site?
If I wanted to ask how the new em-blammo super magic bra fits, would I put it in a place that women would go, or a the sports page?
If you don't do mutch with it. There are people out there that windows is the perfect choice for. Apparently only 10% of people...
But seriously, alot of these people claim that windows is unstable after f**king up their machines for years. Linux suffers the same slings and arrows from all of the people that complain that Linux won't work with their "insert hardware here".
When Linux is all beautiful and all of the apps are stable, I'll start worrying about forgetting the kill command. But until then, at least linux has the kill command.
~Jason Maggard
"A man can be a slave to irrational hate or irrational passion. Unfortunately the poor beast is only capable of being rational and even keel when he is dead."
I shall correct my mind forthwith.
stance in a nutshell: MS fantastic due to bringing home computing to world. MS abomination due to megalomaniacal moneygod at top.
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
Oh wow! Look! someone spoofing a movie that has been spoofed to death about a topic that is obvious! How funny! Folks, if you're gonna do something like this... do something no one else has thought of yet. These poor people look like idiots, don't let it happen to you.
But 100% of the people think incoming taxes are
annoying... but don't realize that they aren't
necessary.
Well, from what I've been told, there was an earlier film that had done the same idea, but didn't market itself as well (via the net).
And to be fair, a friend of mine and I did the same thing with audio tapes, an abandoned apartment complex, a story about vampires and some props (for sounds and our own sake). We thought the idea was neat, but the end results were kinda lame, and incidentally that's the last time i worked with a vampire story. And I felt the same about the results of Blair Witch; great idea, lame film. If only I had known, and persued the idea a little longer!
But the parodies I enjoy. So long as someone doesn't do a South Park parody.
Bad things often happen to good people,
It is up to them to see that they remain good.
Reports of The Fair Geek have long been told in these wild woods of the net. No one has uncovered hard evidence and the few who do go looking for this ellusive creature often are never heard from again.
Tales of well formed debates, proof of concepts, factual ideas and open mindedness can be heard in many folk stories and legends. Still nothing concrete ever has surfaced.
So while we go thru our day listening to Jon Katz, Cnn and reading Slashdot threads let us remeber, there are some things, some hidden things, that we are just not ment to find.
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
Don't even get me started on this...
Printing money makes a hell of a lot more sense than issuing bonds.
I have to agree, an I'm not going to use an AC account, I personally think that linux and open source is the way forward, but the open source community is becoming just as closed minded as NT-only sysadmins ... there are certain things that I'll use NT etc for somethings simply because it suits the job, (exchange for example is the best mail server available for a medium sized company). If linux/OSS is to move forward, the OSS community has to move forward too. Note, I'm not logging in as ac, I'm quite happy for you to flame me / moderate me down, it only proves my point.
okay.. apart from the DVD player.. which is coming soon, I'm sure.. (too many people who use Linux want it to happen for it not to be on the horizon).. you gave good examples of specialized software that is not really available on Linux (someone prove me wrong here..) But if it's 3d rendering you crave..check out Moonlight Creator.. (forget what the URL is.. )
Granted these are "corners" of the market that Linux has yet to exert it's influence on.. so Windows in this case is a better choice.. but for the most part, I'll stick with linux. And I wouldn't be surprised if Linux base-solutions arise for those niches as well..
-- "This is my sig... there are many like it but this one is mine"
all good points, although StarOffice/WordPerfect don't bother me on my linux box.. results may vary..
Netscape has yet to spit up on me.. and it runs faster than Nutscrape on Win98 for me...
I've used visual studio.. it's the BEST choice for authoring *Windows* applications.. I'd probably like CodeWarrior better or some other non-MS product, simply for the fact that it might not have such a close binding to the WinAPI.
DirectX.. 3D rendering aside.. my graphics work pretty well on Linux.. i use WindowMaker at 1280x1024x16.. (larger res/same bpp as Win98) and it's faster than Win for me.. Diamond Viper V770 AGP 32MB..
i agree Blackdown has fallen behind in it's java porting project (IIRC IBM has releast a JDK for Linux as well.. someone can verify?)
Have you ever seen Enlightenment work on a a good display?.. it's much more rich and fun to look at than any windows display i've seen.. check out the screen shots at www.enlightenment.org..
so.. software quality may be an issue.. but i can guarantee the issues will be resolved before MS releases the version of Windows after Win2000.. (Windows3000?)
I personally would rather wait a year for a solid, stable, robust Linux than FOREVER for MS to fix what's wrong with Windows..
-- "This is my sig... there are many like it but this one is mine"
Oh! That makes it all better, since you got free pizza and all. Nevermind! You weren't "duped".
NT is very nice and very stable. I've got a W2K server at work....running on cheap hardware (except for that century memory stick i suppose) and it's been up for like almost 3 months....I haven't had to touch it AT ALL :) Quite impressed i am i am.
Well, I have a slightly different experience. For a few weeks, I had to run my computer on a piece-of-crap video card. I've got a dual-boot system. X would crash relatively often on this video card - but about 4 times out of 5, Windows wouldn't even boot. It'd give me a BSOD as it tries to display the login window.
Fortunately, the many X crashes weren't the nasty type where you have to shut down remotely... ctrl-alt-backspace would always work. So Linux kept running, with only the minor annoyance that text characters on the console would get random extra pixels turned on.
--
Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
Although this seems amusing (I'll read it in a sec), why must there be so many Blair Witch take-offs?!
It was different than everything else! That's what (helped make?) made it good! Give up the parodies already!
i dont display scores, and my threshhold is -1. post accordingly.
Discuss
I've had Linux panic when i ran out of harddisk space :)
I think you'll find that applications that crash NT will be ones that install kernel level drivers....and they're what crashes the kernel.
I guess some could come down to bugs...but that's quite rare in NT.
true.
A comment:
The "QuickVote" on the side asks "Is Windows 95/98 a buggy operating system? Yes | No" Currently 3081 votes say "Yes" and 370 votes say "No" (89%/11%).
Lets see the Slashdot effect on THAT!
i dont display scores, and my threshhold is -1. post accordingly.
Discuss
Snicker. Magic SysReq gave me the worst Linux crash I'd ever seen. It started telling me that it couldn't start any more programs in the current runlevel. Then the machine locked up. YMMV, I guess. And crashing X so that it locks the box is not too hard. VMWare seems to do it the whole time. Netscape does it occasionally.
of Windows edited, titled, foleyed, composited, finished, and encoded into MPEG-2 on? Windows.
You guys should up your standards a little on what gets posted.
;-)
I've upped my standards already.
up yours!
-----------------------------------
"I have as much authority as the pope, I just
don't have as many people who believe it" - George Carlin
Actually, it's for an embedded system.
After a quick review...this is kinda funny!
Ummm windows? Lets see here,.. Actually if I recall correctly, macs are used mostly for that sort of thing. Hell though, you could use about any OS, windows is irrelevent.. and I do not just mean for this situation :)
might be a problem with your BSD version... In linux, I never have that problem really. Actually,.. I have had Internet explorer 5.0 bring down the windows shell more times than Ive had netscape crash in linux AND windows... (and I hardly use IE... let alone windows)
windows's shell being explorer...
Whenever someone gripes about Windows, but doesn't
talk about alternatives (especially *nix), it
is as useless as griping about growing old.
People need to know that there are alternatives,
instead of just bitching.
I don't even know what to say about the possibility of finding someone who thought that the manuscript might actually exist. Before reading this I would have guessed zero. I guess I learn something new every day.
Well, it's realy a stupid question actualy. Since it's not quantitative it's essantaly asking "Do you wish Windows was less buggy then it is now?". This is like asking "Do you wish your car was more gas-efficiant?" Nobody in their right mind would say "No, In fact I wish my car would burn oil too!".
I'm more suprised about the 10% that said "no".
I'm tired of people ragging on the Blair Witch Project. Heather herself has said that she would've held the camera steadier, but she thought she was just going to see the movie _with_a_group_of_friends on a TV! This was not planned to be a blockbuster, or a flawless film. It's amazing how well it works for what it is.
This isn't the first movie without flaws, but I'm tired of people calling it unworthy of its popularity because of a few stupid mistakes.
Besides, in what horror movie do the kids _not_ go into the house? That's what they do!
Yes, humor news has its place on /., but those with humorless preferences shouldn't have to waste bandwidth on stories like this.
Besides, I like seeing the python foot in the icon bar. It almost compensates me, a lonely python bigot, for the fact that Java and Perl get their own slasdot topics but Python doesn't.
Preferential Voting: easy as 1-2-3
Try following the link first, troll. Then go back to your astroturf campaign or whatever else it is you do for the Redmond Sith.
A few flaws????
Ive seen better plots on episodes of TJ hooker. Come on, even you hit on the key thing here. They makers thought this would be shown on a TV to a few freinds, a few showings for folks on small screens. Putting this up on the big screen is like putting Jon Bennet Ramesy as the centerfold of Hustler.
Not only is it a problem of scale but its a problem of intent. Blowing up a bad picture ona ascreen 20x its intended format and the flaws become 20x as glarring.
Charging full price for this was one one of the many bonehead moves. Blowing it up in the press was another. Great, lets take a nice little student film and hype it more than GOne With the Wind and then expect everyone to fall over themselves with glowing praise.
Flaw flaw flaw. If I used it to clean my teeth it would be dental flaws.
The characters were so paper thin as to make the plot look almost solid. The only impression we have of heather is she whines, she lies and she controls a situation past its usefullness...Much like the movie. The other two make nice foils for her rantings, but even here it is so paper thin and flawe that they might as well have brought in JArJar and Yoda.
The BWP was good for one thing. It is a great litmus test to see if someone can be easily dupped by hype and peer preasure.
teach your children well
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
ehh,.. X server,.. (well,.. to put it bluntly) and quiet honest.. I have hardly any problem at all with X. Last time I've had X (using xfree86, currently using 3.3.5, but Ive used Xfree86 since about 95-96) actually CRASH was about a year ago.... And I use Linux/X quiet heavely. Both on all my home systems (server, notebook and desktop).. But on my devel system at work (urgh,... a REALLY NICE SYSTEM.. makes me wish I could take it home .. LOL).. And everything is just dandy just my 2c
sorry, I hate correcting my self,.. and, not but :)
Okay... mr condescending unix here...
let's talk about system uptime...
let's talk about multiuser systems providing services to multiple machines and multiple users.
Windows BSOD means: "I'm totally Fu*ked - computer terminated all connections and processes. Three finger salute!"
netscape coredump means: "damn... how come linux netscape crashes so much. "
I've had X crash (solaris running development enlightement comes to mind...) on a machine that serves NFS to a dozen systems and hosts a web and ftp site. The display was totally hosed. The system had zombie processe, but apache, wu-ftpd, nfsd were all working fine....
I left the system that way for 2 weeks to schedule downtime that wouldn't affect users.
now, a unix system panic is more like BSOD. I've experienced maybe a dozen or so system panics out of thousands of unix servers, most of which were due to very pre-release OS versions or hardware failures.
... so 2 BSODs a month seem like an awful lot to me. Aren't you ashamed that you've been conditioned to think that 2 BSOD's a month is GOOD!?!
What if the next guy, loved microsoft products? LOL
(Certanly not me btw)
I'm not one to frown on someone making a quick buck, everyone has gripes about low budget softwre and movies raking in big dinero. Making fun ofboth at the same time?
----------- destroy evil immediately!
As much as I like vi, it is not a work processor, it is a text editor. It Word processors support fonts, tables, and various other ways of modifying the looks at setup of documents with a GUI of some sort. And that is one thing vi is not.
On the other hand, I don't particularly need a word processor. Text editors are good enough for me.
Put up an article with a poll and link to it on slashdot and you can get you'll get skewed results...
MUAHAHAHAH!!! It's at 92% to 8% now. Uhhh... Quake1, 2, 3? Myth 2? Unreal Tournament? Those will keep me busy for awhile, among many others. Then there's games in wine, then there's the fact that once game manufacturers notice a large Linux user group for their products more will be pumped up. Mark my words, by the year 2001 we will be complaining about how damn commercial this Linux thing is and most likly praising a whole other, new, OS. Hardware comparison? Actually, quite a bit. Know your shit before posting. For pretty much any Windows program there is also a Linux program (only acception to the rule that I know of is PowerPoint, which I suppose is good but I never have the need for).
If you think you know what the hell is really going on you're probably full of shit.
If you think you know what the hell is really going on you're probably full of shit.
jdube is who I am.
JMC
Do you have anything better to do with your life?
There is a concept known as "reasoned argument". Investigate it one day, if mom lets you out of the house.
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
I'd rather see a link to pictures of scat-eating donkeys being molested with shucked corn cobs by a gang of gangrenous midget immigrants.
Don't get me wrong, I run a network of Solaris and FreeBSD boxes, and I think Windows has as many problems as the next guy (as long as the next guy has crabs and a healthy dose of Ebola), but that was just piss poor. Humor at its worst. I thought the author was alluding to something done by somebody else...but no, just some lame-ass nerd with a soap box to tell his lame-ass jokes. And since there are so many Linux "I'd rather take it up the ass than admit linux isn't the best" advocates out there, it's destined to get hits.
I'm disappointed that the article was posted.
Hemos, we know you need to learn how to write, but now you make us think you need to learn how to read.
Is Windows 95/98 a buggy operating system?
Yes, It doesn't work too well for computers, maybe it WOULD kick ass on the new buggys.
+&x
It's too bad we can't moderate entire stories down.
This was published on the back page of Infoworld this past week... CNN just repeated it.
NT does and will crash from a user program, Although I will admit it is pretty rare. Visual Cafe has done it before. And I've been told(First hand) that Director will do it daily.
I know it is just luck, but I've NEVER had linux "panic" on me. I'm not even sure what it does. Does anyone know?
Now, if they just made Visual Cafe for Linux:)
(appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
I'm happily playing CivCTP right now. It's a pretty recent and interesting game. Also I can't wait to get Railroad Tycoon. Addtionally, when i first got CivCTP it crashed regularly after 1 hour of play. I emailed loki and they sent me a beta patch the next day. The finished patch came out a few days later. Never have I received such attention when I've had difficulty with a game for the windows/Mac/Console platform.
The beauty of linux is that due to the community standards/practices companies really need to embrace us (the community) or be ignored.
If you are against Linux, why read slashdot? This is not meant as an insult, but rather as an eye-opener. You are obviously here for a reason, I'd suggest picking up a cheap Linux cd from cheap bytes and see what you're missing.
The only change is now we're seeing more mainstream bias against Microsoft. And we're seeing some positive bias towards Linux, with rare mention of other alternatives such as FreeBSD or BeOS.
I got a few shallow chuckles out of it. But then, I'm easily amused. The telling point, though, is that I didn't bookmark it. It wasn't anything special, after all.
Basically, the clueless users will eventually be directed towards things like WebTV, or the next-gen consoles(Dreamcast has Inet right?). Eventually they will be able to do stuff like word processing and such.
You expect too much out of most comptuer users.
/.) That makes a lot of OSes (BeOS, OS/2) not an option.
/p" how can you expect them to deal with "ls -l | more"?
Most anyone who has used computers and windows 98 generally can figure out that msnp32.dll shouldn't spontaneously disappear.
However, that doesn't take much computer savvy, nor does it take much of an anti-microsoft view. Most computer users want to know they can run the latest games and HAVE to have sofware that is 100% compatible with their company's software (ever noticed people runnign and screaming because the company has Word 2000 and they have Word 97? yes, that's not at all a problem for most anyone who is reading this, but most computer users have never heard of
Macs just have a bad rap. I've never understood that, for just about anyone's uses but those of a programmer, Macs are, in my opinion, beautiful machines. And I talked to a Mac representative a few months ago and I guess that they intend to make Macs as fun to hack on as PC's, so that wont be a problem soon, either. On top of that, macs still suffer from the first problem a bit. (and incompatibility really starts to matter more when you go cross platform)
For just about everyone, linux/unix arent options either. Most computer users I know nowadays can't even handle a command line interface. If they can't handle "dir
There certainly is a place for Linux in this world... However, until it has anywhere near the level of *modern* hardware support, I will continue to do all my work in NT2000/BeOS R4.5. BeOS has actual support for all the hardware in my Dell PII-400 system. Why should I waste time with *buggy* Linux sound card/PCI net card/Vid Card/*.* drivers when Be has been doing an incredible job keeping up with new driver updates?
In defense of Windows 2000, at least Microsoft (I don't need to hear another troll call them M$) has had the brains to clean up the UI and error messages. "Bad Command or File Name" has disappeared, along with several of the reboots required in NT4. I'd *love* to see Red Hat match that with an actual user-friendly distribution of Linux.
As for the NT4.0 "Service-Pack" complaints, I argue that it's better than the decentralized "homegrown-patch-for-everything" situation Linux involves.
Finally, I've removed Red Hat from my system. Not because it's an awful OS... but because it's simply not good enough.
-Adam Poulos
and the developers use NT
Why don't you just only read messages rated 2 and up? That gets you most of the good ones ... an no "first post" comment gets rated a 2 or 3 ...
- Michael T. Babcock <homepage>
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
NT is a great example of the golden OS rule: Those who don't understand UNIX are doomed to reimplement it -- poorly!
What could you *possibly* run on Windoze that has no close approximation on Linux? Not to mention the fact that Linux applications are much more frequently update/fixed/enhanced..
As far as the H/W issue goes.. if you're going to put ANY OS on a computer, you're going to want reliable, brand name hardware (not necessarily top-of-the-line, mind you).. and in that case, the odds are that Linux can support it..
With regard to games.. yes Linux doesn't, at present, support as many games as Windows9x does.. but on the other hand if ALL you're going to use an OS for is to play games.. then you might as well just use Window anyway.. (I personally keep Windows somewhere on my box just to play said games.. anything worthwhile is done on Linux )
Oh, and *nix systems are stable because they were written to be that way (over 2 decades ago), unlike Windows which was written to merely please the lowest common denominator, and buggily at that. At least linux is upgrading itself constantly in such a way as to not require the user to BUY at bloated prices a bloated piece of software that's supposed to fix usability issues, but quite often, just creates more problems, hassles.. etc...
-- "This is my sig... there are many like it but this one is mine"
Seems kindda spooky to me that Windows totally BSOD'd on me while reading the page. (thank Gasse for Be). Other than that, one word... *yawn*
Does anyone else think something is wrong when a (supposedly) unbiased news site like CNN posts this story on its computing news front page? As much as I dislike Windows this is just biased as anything.
"What could you *possibly* run on Windoze that has no close approximation on Linux? "
An office suite. Linux has NO DECENT Word Processors. M$ Word does the job quite well really. Corel WordPerfect for Linux is a dog. I tried running it on a 486, and it was unusably slow, and ugly, etc. Reboot into Windoze and fire up Word 97, no problems - got the task done and printed in a fraction of the time.
"With regard to games.. yes Linux doesn't, at present, support as many games as Windows9x does"
It doesn't matter how many Linux supports, they'll still have shitty performance. I have the choice of Q2 under Linux, or windoze 98 or the relatively stable Windows NT. I choose NT, but would still risk crashing and playing under 98 before using Linux. The frame rate is ridiculous! Linux is far from primetime when it comes to top of the line games.
Windows might be unstable and over-priced compared with Linux, but NT in particular is easily stable enough for *desktop* usage. And it has far more heavy weight applications that work and do it well. I'm tired of "making do" in Linux when I can just reboot into NT and use a better app there.
I heard that no one made it out alive. So given that, one can assume that the borg (er... microsofties) will get those tresspassing filmakers before they can boot more than one system... come to think of it, that still gives them alot of time to recompile M$Office for *nixes on the spiffy VA Laptops they will probably bring with them ;^) plaXion
Wouldn't you rather be scrimshaw?
Just for the record, Star Office has a Power Point clone, and it works pretty well. Thought you'd like to know.
~Religion is O.K., as long as it gets you laid.
Is a filter option to screen out Anonymous Cowards.
/.
Seems like these twits compose >=90% of the first posts, flaimbaits, trolls, and just purely assinine crap posts on
john
Imagine all the people...
What makes you think that is the opinion of the "mainstream"? I don't know exactly how many viewers one can be expected to get from a link on slashdot, but consider that the polls here normally have like 30-50,000 votes. Also consider that the mainstream would have given up on that story before scrolling down to the poll (it might have been on the first page for you, but I bet you don't run 640*480 because reseting the res is too difficult either). And that NO geek could have passed by that one without voting.
I think the mainstream have no opinion on the subject. They have nothing to compare with, and Windows seldome crashes when in Solitaire...
-
OK, I agree with you about the Netscape thing. It crashes so much it seems like I spend more time killing it and restarting it than I do using it. However, I have to disagree about X. I hear all these people complaining about the stability of X all the time, but I have never had X crash a single time in my life. Not even once. Hell, I don't even know what X crashing looks like. What do you people do to X to make it crash so much? And I don't even have "quality hardware". I have three year old, crap, bargain-basement hardware.
Let's give X some credit. It's a good system. Windoze, on the other hand, crashes just about every time I use it. I can't say that windoze has much quality.
I am not an idiot. Please use my name to email me.
"That's right, I'm quoting myself."
-Upsilon
Now I think that mindless microsoft bashing is lame and annoying and done to death.
:)
And I think that mindless BWP bashing is lame and annoying and done to death.
But I think the way this article combined them both was pretty clever, and it got a few lols out of me. It wasn't meant to be a review of BWP or a critique of MS. It was meant to be funny.
The image is cool too, I like BG's eyes
But this should have been under "Humor" not "Microsoft." It's funny. Lighten up and Laugh.
-------------
The following sentence is true.
The following sentence is true. The preceding sentence was false.
In order for it to be a buggy OS, one must first consider it an OS.
it's a lame poll to start with. It guides the voters more than an IDC survey. Linux has bugs -- look at the changelogs for any kernel version. Solaris has bugs -- what kernel patch level are you running?
... and why is he running things on my computer?"
It's now fashionable to hate Micros~1 and BillGa~1, just like it's fashionable to promote linux and take a no-idea linux startup public in hopes of getting rich off the IPO.
.. I dare you to name *ANY* software product that hasn't had a lot of bugs at one time or another. (but for products other than windows, they tend to get fixed...;)
and like so many ppl here have pointed out, the masses may 'dis' windows publicly, but they're (happily?) clicking away at their word docs, upgrading their service packs, and installing security patches for MSIE all the while.
I love unix and linux in particular, but I honestly don't look forward to the day that braindead windows users become braindead linux users who will be calling brainded support folk who used to support windows for help...
I can hear it now:
"hello $MAJOR_HARDWARE_VENDOR support? My new computer with linux doesn't run right... I can't install the cool game from the cd that my friend let me borrow -- nothing happens when I click on setup.exe... did you try to reboot?"
---
"My friend mailed me a cuuute little program that is supposed to make a sheep bounce all around my screen, but I can't get it to work.... help!"
---
"I don't want to have to log on... can I just have it AUTOMATICALLY log itself in when I reboot?"
---
"my ATI_ALL_IN_WONDER, winprinter, winmodem, winscanner, usb keyboard, usb mouse, XIRCOM pcmcia network card, and parallel port ZIP disk didn't install right... I can't seem to find the "add new hardware" section under the control panel..."
---
"who is root?
Geez, and they reject all the articles I try to post. Like the one about the completely open-source version of SSH that the OpenBSD people have put out (which can, thus, be bundled with Linux/BSD/whatever distros).
I'm not normally one to whine about the off-topicality of articles posted here to Slashdot, but this one...I just can't see any point at all to posting it here. It's a lot less discussion-worthy than anything Jon Katz ever posted.
Just no accountability in Slashdot editors, I suppose...
But what choice do they have?
I'm a fairly moderate fun of Linux. I use it at work and at home. I use it as primary workstations in both cases. But I also have windows machines at both locations. I would be limiting myself if I tried to completely go without Windows. Its a current fact of life. Having said that - a good 90% of what I do daily does not include Windows. But it would be impractical to go 100%.
The amusing thing is that I have some fairly cluefull friends who make their living within a Microsoft environment. They occasionally bash Microsoft too. Granted, they're a little more rational about it than your average foam-at-the-mouth Linux (or Mac) zealot. But even those who support Microsoft also criticize it.
Does this mean there's a love/hate relationship?
No. I would say its more of a relationship of practicality. The mainstream doesn't get passionate about an OS. And my tech friends? Their relationship with Microsoft is all business.
Yes, but apparently that doesn't help me avoid off-topic posts like this one... :-)
I've made linux kernel panic. I just did it today. I think it was related to working with un-fsck-ed filesystems. But this was on a box which we were trying to get to boot as fast as possible... basically because the power might get pulled out from under it at any time... It's kind of a weird experiment actually.
People love to make fun of what's on top. It's as simple as that, really. CNN (or whomever wrote it, doesn't matter) knows that it'll be popular amongst *everyone*, practically. And even those who 'support' Microsoft by having it on their systems won't complain, will they? There's no entertainment value in that.
An analog: I do remember hundreds of slightly anti-Spice Girl news propaganda right around their big three months or whenever it was. A reputable news source wouldn't think twice about running a cutesy column about 'marketed masses' or silicone implants, because *everyone* hates the Spice Girls, right?
Well, no, some who-knows-how-many Million people bought their record. And listened to it.
And installed it, did their work on it, wrote this post on it.
It's worth noting that the stability of X depends almost solely on your hardware -- some drivers are simply more buggy. I, for instance, have never had X crash on me. Sounds like you have it all the time, but even so, it doesn't mean that "X crashes or hangs frequently", just "X crashes or hangs frequently with my card" -- still bad, but an important distinction nonetheless.
If you wish to make a more visual point, try that fancy new HTML thing. Ask your mom about it and she might buy you one of those "for dummies" books.
Every piece of software is buggy...you'd be silly to say it wasn't.
But NT seems less buggy (because it prevents buggy software from doing buggy things).
And Linux software is generally buggier. Don't deny it.
I agree entirely, konstant! I wonder how the poll would look if it read "Is Linux buggy?" Think /. readers would give the honest answer? --D
just as i started reading "The Rare Glitch Project", my Wintendo 2000 began sending so many mysterious packets to every workstation on the subnet that it flooded the firewall logs, causing massive packet loss and effectively DoS'ing everybody on the subnet.
--
-- ken williams
Hey, I enjoyed reading it... Moments of goodness. And on my prefences page at least you can exclude all those *yawn* microsoft stories if you like...
I'm not saying Windows is stable; I'm saying that the poll, like any other internet poll, is skewed.
> 10% of the voters thought that Windows was NOT
/. pools have demonstrated that 10% of the voters consistently chooses the funny option, when one is available. Draw your own conclusion.
> a buggy OS!!!
Incidentally, the
They are attempting to document the Rare Glitch Project, a legendary version of Microsoft Windows designed to be compact and stable.
Why does he feel the need to be so inflammatory? Such a thing already exists. It's called NT 3.51. Actually, I shouldn't even say that. There's nothing that wrong with NT 4, even, provided you've got good hardware. It's just that most of the applications Microsoft writes to run on top of NT that either aren't stable or just resource-consuming. For instance, you can run a machine with Exchange server for months, even years without rebooting, it's just a memory hog. On the other hand, Proxy server crashes fortnightly. The common thing about both products is that they really do some innovative awesome stuff, but are implemented poorly. If Proxy server never crashed, and Exchange took up 1/5 of the RAM it does, (and was a bit faster) they would be awesome products.
I'm just more than a little sick about people ragging so hard on Windows. Unless you are guided by truly altruistic beliefs, using only Free(tm) Software, and never releasing a non-GPLed source; use Linux/BSD when it's appropriate. Indeed, use NT when it's appropriate, because sometimes it is!
well I thought it was pretty funny.
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
it ain't healthy to bottle up yer feelings like that... c'mon, tell us how you really feel...
Oh, and I think it's midget immigrants in nun costumes...
People need to know that there are alternatives, instead of just bitching.
Maybe you should have read the entire article before mouthing off and you would have seen the following:
Nicholas Petreley is editorial director of Linux World
Oooops! Better put brain in gear before exercising tonsils next time.
Let's see.
First, Word is a shitty word processor.
vi is a word processor. Word tries to be a page layout, grammer corrector and 27 dozen other things which causes it to take way too long to do anything. I'll take vi on Linux or BBEdit on MacOS over Word any day.
NT is stable enough for desktop usage, but that's not what it's for. No sane "average" home user could use it. Plus there are very few games or other "home user" programs for it since M$ can't even have compatibility within their own product line.
---CONFLICT!!---
As far as I know, Microsoft Bob has no Linux equivalent. :-)
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are not necessarily my own, as I've not yet had my medication today.
Really?
Windows, hmmm?
Hang on a sec... "About this Macintosh..."
Nope! Seems to be running MacOS 8.6. and EditDV. Sorry! Thanks for playing!
(It's hear, hear)
As there really are no good metrics to measure such a thing as complex as an operating system on a general purpose computer, all you're going to get is anecdotes. You can read these all day and you may still not get anywhere. Every product has its limitations, like any other tool, and taking these into account, you can use all of them to your advantage.
An office suite. Linux has NO DECENT Word Processors.
Um, StarOffice, anyone?
The poll on the same page asks if "Win95/98 are stable". Ironically, when I click to see the result, I keep getting a javascript error and can't see the poll results.
Marv
I'm not a journalist, but I play one on slashdot
See the problem is that if they had a poll that said, "Is Linux buggy?" If the respondants were answering honestly (HA!) they would have to say, "Yes".
Let's get real here people, ALL software has glitches and/or bugs. It's a fact of life. You just cannot feasibly find all the problems with software within the given time that MARKETING idiots through at you.
--
rJames.org - illustration
The results of the poll were shocking though. 10% of the voters thought that Windows was NOT a buggy OS!!! -Too lazy to register
heh, you think it isn't funny so any and all linux advocates who simply laughed at it are of the type "I'd rather take it up the ass than admit linux isn't the best"? btw, you want to talk about humor at it's worst? Re-read your own post.
that was really bad, like the world needs another blair witch parody. the survey was funny though, 90% said windows is buggy
Funny how, that whole time they were supposedly searching, they never once saw any sign of a stable version of Windows. :)
We use these Macs:
300MHz Power Mac 9600
Two 266MHz Power Macintosh G3s
A new 333MHz iMac
An old Performa 6115 (we did all our publicity materials on this baby!)
Source: http://www.apple.com/hotnews/features/ blair/
"I have a cunning plan..."
Arrgghh. What is this jevenile obsession with first posts? Make a first post slashbox for users who want first post association, but leave the rest of us alone!
If you take a point-for-point approach on pre's
an con's for some OS'es, we might actually learn
something. And there should be factual and
realistic web pages on those points. The recent
MicroSoft 'Linux myths' and the resulting 'NT myths' pages were a good start. The OS developers can and should learn from eachother.
Ok, let's make that distinction on Windows then. I have very little problem with Windows BSODing or freezing up. I'd say X crashes more than Windows does. And so, for your point, I'm running a Diamond Viper V550. Now, lets make everyone who runs Windows and has it crash on the constantly tell their hardware specs because it's so obviously the hardware.
You want to boot faster because the power might get pulled out from under it at any time, so you skip fsck??? This is not just a wierd experiment this is plain stupid! Maybe for your next experiment you'd like to try booting from a kernel with only modules and no ext2fs or initial ramdisk built in? You should probably go back to winDos because these simple concepts (like checking a disk after power failure) are obviously way over your head.
A score of 3 with a description of "Troll"
wtf?
*rofl*
/. moderation at its best, I suppose.
V
Yes 92% 7398 votes
No 8% 632 votes
Total: 8030 votes
Nice odds, yet if CNN asked the question, "Would you be willing to install Linux today" the numbers would be the same but with Yes and No reversed. I love it when the mainstream bashes M$ while they edit their stories using Word running on NT, holding a Microsoft mouse after putting the phone down and ordering W2k for 20 workstations. I'm starting to believe they think M$ bashing is exactly like Ralph Kramden threating to beat his wife, in they end they're still very much in love. Awwww.
"To the moon, Gates!"
Then again if that vote was slashdotted...
Want a job at Mindcraft?
You hit the nail on the head, although it's C|Net, not CNN. Anyway, I'm not suprised people aren't creating taylored-to-slashdot sites just to get the targetted ad revenue.
--
Disclaimer: I hate Microsoft and its products as much as the next guy.
-- $SIGNATURE
cuz the moderators suck. icream for icecream.... good idea!
see, "funny" in this type of article usually happens when the target (in this case, Micros~1) is savagely skewered by a lethal combination of witty writing and ironic truth. The former was sorely lacking.
Was anybody crying with laughter over this article? I hope not, cuz it just wasn't good writing and it wasn't funny, and it certainly didn't say anything new. I could write a piece of crap like that in five minutes, easy.
I know humor is relative, but for stuff like this an exception has to be made. It reminds me of that "slashdot parody" site Roblimo posted called "hashsnot" or something like that. Ugh.
I'm not being a grouch and saying don't put humorous stuff up. In fact, I'm saying the exact opposite - don't put up sorry attempts at humor. You guys should up your standards a little on what gets posted.
--
grappler
Vidi, Vici, Veni
*pop* there goes the little bubble I had growing around me :)
OFTC: By the community, for the community
The "Is Windows 95/98 buggy?" poll is at 90% yes... and this story hasn't even been up here long enough for the /. readers to really hammer it yet!
i liked it! at least it was alot more entertaining than that godawful movie!
"The lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths."
--
And Justice for None
In the story, he mentions:
What follows is an edited transcript of that footage. Fortunately, I was able to cut the
transcript, which was 385 pages, down to a half page by removing the profanity.
Is this thing really out there? Does anyone know where to find it if so? I would love to have this whole thing. It seems unlikely, given the tongue-in-cheek numbers, but I wonder if Petreley wrote it himself or got it from somwhere else.
--
--
"In Cyberspace, no one can hear you be sarcastic"
Anybody who could fall for a shallow theme like blair witch must need a new brain. jz
I suggest a slashdot preference option:
Hide all First Post comments x (this would, of course, incude all variations and other dumb arse first post variants)... in fact, it would filter out *this* post, due to the FIRST POST in the subject and the comment. I'd be thrilled at this option... of course people would start first posting things like "Floof!" and "Nanotubule" instead, and soon we'd just have to decapitate them all......
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
...because Linux (l)users like most of you make Linux look bad.
MS may have problems, but being a whole bunch of whiney little kiddes does nothing to futher your crusade.
I've gotten so sick of seeing "M$" or "Winblowz" or "Internet Exploiter" in this forumn. You do realize all this makes you look like 4 year olds when any independent party looks at them, right? Your immature banter proves that you have nothing better on MS than a couple of bad play on words.
Linux is a great OS, don't get me wrong(I'm running it right now). Its the majority of users that ruins it. I hope someday Linus himself puts you all in your place.
(Posting anonymously because I know this post will be quickly dismissed and not even considered.)
slightly off-topic, but.. then again, not really:
that godawful movie!
I found Blair Witch to be goshawful too. Yes, they were original. That's where it ends. It sucked, it was the most unscary thing I've ever seen, and I got tired of having the objects in my view dart all over the place, and I was tired of their language. I laugh at those whom it frightened. (which is rude, I realize, but so often, I've been the one scared out of my mind at stuff, so it's nice to be on the other end for once, you know?)
Insert mind here.
6 replies beneath your current threshold.
After reading all the other posts on this topic thinking about these 6 messages frightens me more than Blair Witch ever did
I must agree, very amusing. Worth the download and the time invested in reading the trifle. I have spent more on less.
TheQ
My comments are the direct effect of your comments or lack there of.
Vote Republican. Unless youre so useless that you cant take of yourself and need the government to raise you. Then you need the liberals.
And I hope it never does have a Microsoft BOB equivalent. Not all mistakes have to be repeated. :)
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
Hee hee!
New Microsoft Keyboard:
Microsoft today released a radical new keyboard, that trims down the number of keys to just the ones used most often. Some claim that the keys on this keyboard are the only ones they ever use while running Windows 98. Shown was the PS/2 version, but a USB model is also available. Check it out at the link below.
Keyboard pic
The above post is an editorial, the poster cannot and will not be held responsible for all or in part for it's contents
It's always like this in any thread critical of Microsoft, their employer.
True, they're not all paid astroturfers. Some are just Bill Gates worshippers. Sad.
Ok, yeah, there are lots of bug fixes for Linux, but these don't affect me. I could probably be still running a pretty old kernel and nothing would be wrong, aside from a few security changes.
:) Yes, you can do this in Windows too, but quite a bit of things remain the same, and it is kind of shifty on where it draws the borders. The borders in Linux are simple: different directories.
Does one of these bugs make my computer blue-screen? Does it crash my whole computer down when the browser crashes?? No!
But, the thing is, those aren't really caused by bugs in Windows...
Windows is pretty weird even when it works properly. Try installing and uninstalling a driver a couple times, Windows might even come up with a different conclusion each time. Sometimes, when installing a driver, another dialog will pop up that shows the add driver dialog you started with!! Do you think you could manually add a driver if worse came to worse? No, the best option you have is safe mode. Although you could read the inf file and copy some stuff, it would take quite a while, and even then, who knows what crazy stuff Windows does in the background of that wizard.... Is this a bug, or is this the way they designed it?
Now, I know you weren't really attacking Linux, but this is just something I had to say.
Hmm.. braindead linux users.. It seems most people will understand Linux pretty easily. Windows has made them that way. '"Add New Hardware" has always worked for me, so why not now?' Remember, many people used DOS, and it wasn't that hard to use. The only problem is that login, but I like logging in to Linux, where I just avoid using it in Windows, because it doesn't do anything. If you tell them that each person in their house can have their own little directory to themselves, have completely different looking desktops, their own bookmarks, history, and whatever, they will probably not mind logging in. Of course, everyone will be fighting over who gets "root"
And, hopefully, vendors will preconfigure the machines so users don't have to deal with the drivers, and by the time we have lots of braindead Linux users, Linux should have better hardware support than W2k(think support for older hardware + now major vendor support of Linux).
As a visible figure in Open Source, I find it mildly disturbing to see such a value-less pot-shot at M$ just for it's sake by Nicholas Petreley.
Let's stick to business folks. The IT directors are paying attention, and, this type of banter doesn't sell departments.
Van
www.dedserius.com
VB != VisualBasic
This has always been a UNIX site, and people here have always been pretty much anti-Microsoft (for good reason).
WTF did you lusers expect? Go read PC Magazine if you just want to see Microsoft worship.
And get a fucking clue while you're at it. :-)
Shoot - Linux is buggy too if you really get down to it. The X driver (technically not a part of "Linux", but an integral part of the operating enviromnent) crashes or hangs up fairly regularly. The question is how usefull it is, and how much time do you waste because of those bugs.
Your Servant, B. Baggins
Trouble is, if 99% said Windows 95/98 _wasn't_ buggy, they'd be lying or simply conned. It's not a popularity contest, people, this says nothing about Windows and everything about people's perception of Windows. Windows _IS_ buggy. Most big software projects are, and Windows is particularly buggy and people have lived with it for _years_ and gotten well used to its weird and chaotic behavior. _Journalists_ whose paychecks are heavily subsidized by MS have taken to writing articles about how buggy it is: "Hey, Windows is buggy! I can't go three days without it crashing!" "Oh yeah? When I wrote about how buggy it was, I got _buried_ in email telling me how right I was!" "Oh yeah? It crashes every day for me!" "You were lucky, for me it dies every thrrree hoours..." "_Luxury_..." :) because their behavior is kind of psychotic, such a determined denial of trivially obvious reality can't be healthy :) ;)
It's more interesting to speculate on how many people actually understand how buggy Windows is, and what they propose to do about it, than to seriously argue about whether (ha!) Windows _is_ (hahaha!) buggy. (*ROFL*) Uh, if anybody is suggesting that Windows is _not_ buggy and that the constant and incessant reports of it being buggy are _jealousy_ or malicious lies... they should go see a mental health care specialist
Now, if you ask whether it's good to have people constantly making the same joke about it, that's another story- maybe you could make a case that this is a tragic situation that deserves sympathy and help and big donations to the Help Microsoft Afford To Pay For Debugging Fund. Surely it's only right to help poverty-stricken young startups like MS, who can't _afford_ to take the time to debug, help them get the tools and talent they need. With enough donations, somebody might be able to go through the source for RegEdit and take out almost a megabyte of completely unused resources that don't do anything! If only MS had the money to pay for somebody to do these little housekeeping tasks. Toss them a coin and utter a small prayer for them.
On the other hand, since they don't want to clean up their act, why not turn the knife in it as hard as you can? It's capitalism in action- it's a window of vulnerability- they are helping potential competitors create a market space for themselves, by shipping crapware all the time. Don't let them do it unchallenged, _lean_ on that vulnerability, it might make some consumer someday, about to purchase WindowsYetAgain(tm), pause and stop and go "Damn... who needs that?" and start down some other path of computing that they would enjoy just as much or more.
I'm more shocked that almost 10% _don't_ think W9* is buggy. o_O
Unfortunately, some of the best comments crawl along at a 1 (by a real person, not moderated up), or by an AC upped only once (not usually, but hey, it happens). Plus, I get that nagging feeling that I've missed something important in those 50 or so comments that are below my threshhold... It gets rid of the first post issue, but limits a lot of good stuff, too.
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
The Author: Nick Petreley, a noted and repeated anti-microsoft (as opposed to pro-linux) grandstander The Theme: get traffic and ad impressions for CNN by trolling slashdot into citing their article The Bait: A limply humorous spoof on a moderately interesting movie. The Content: a puerile sissy-slap in the face of Microsoft, roughly equivalent to "nyah nyah, your OS is unstable" The Result: pay dirt. The gullible slashdot authority falls for it. Tens of thousands of ad impressions line CNN's pockets. Microsoft is *yawn* yet again trashed on slashdot. No provocation in the form of actual news is required. Humor Level: Three boston cream pies out of ten. Sucker Level: Off the charts.
-konstant
-konstant
Yes! We are all individuals! I'm not!
So what? I paid perhaps .0000001% of a penny to download the advert on the page, and the nice payoff for me was a wry chuckle at a fairly amusing (for me) article.
Chill.
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me