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Ex-Novell CEO praises FreeBSD
There are a number of interesting things to take from this article. It's unsurprising that an ex-Novell CEO does not want to use MS software after the way Novell were treated by them, it is mildly surprising that he hasn't chosen a Novell, or other 'industry standard' solution.
Encanto's choice of FreeBSD over Linux is also interesting. Naturally, we all know that FreeBSD is the best choice (heh heh heh :-)), but Linux (or Solaris) would be the anti-MS knee jerk choice. Using FreeBSD suggests that they've actually investigated the different OS choices open to them, and chosen one on merit -- or that the first SA they hired preferred FreeBSD over Linux.
As ever, the media have got the licensing issues wrong. One of the key things about the BSD license is that you don't have to contribute enhancements back to the original codebase if you don't want to -- of course, that doesn't stop many companies from doing so anyway, because it's better business sense in the long run.
Having looked at the Encanto web site, and the products they're selling, the license may very well be the key issue. They sell network appliances -- plug and play web servers, that sort of thing, and the ability to make proprietry changes to the code base to support their product (and enhance their product's value) without having to disclose those changes is probably key to their business plan.
This is quite similar to the approach taken by Whistle and their Interjet devices. Whistle have been the classic example of a company which has contributed code back, even though the license doesn't force them to -- typically 6 to 12 months after they've deployed it in their product, and reaped the commercial benefit. This lets them recoup their development costs plus profit, and lets the rest of the community benefit from (and extend and support) the code later on.
Finally, CBS's phrase, "so-called open-source software" should get them a stiff letter from ESR...
The CEO makes it appear as if you *need* to contribute all changes made to the source, not the journalist.
Matt
I'm afraid there was little more to this article than the other millions of reactions we've seen to the Microsoft ruling. FreeBSD was mentioned maybe twice, with little or no comparison to Linux or any other UNIX. I think the title might be a bit off on this one, guys.
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
But really its not true, the last sentence that is.
"Free BSD is a particular flavor of the Unix operating system. It does an exceptionally good job. The operating system is distributed for free. Those that write enhancements to it are required to make those available to everyone."
All you have to do is provide the base YOU used, you don't HAVE to give back to the community. But, this desire to give back is what OpenSource is all about, now isn't it?
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
is there any reason /. looks like a big hotdog ?
rm -rf ~/.signature
And that's no reflection on ESR, either. The media really should concentrate on ACCURATE reporting, and leave pulp fiction to paperback writers.
Getting back to the OS used, for a moment, I'm also finding it interesting that they went the FreeBSD route. Of course, the best OS depends on the tasks they want to do. The best hammer will never make for a usable chisel, and both make for horrible screwdrivers. The fact that they chose FreeBSD over Linux, OpenBSD and NetBSD says either something about the attitudes involved OR the needs.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I thought it was Bob that made the comment about having to share, not the CBS flunkee. So, SSSSSSSSSHHHHHH.... don't tell them, they might just not catch on... ;^)
:^) Sad, sad indeed.
I did notice, however, that the CBS reporter posed this question about BSD, however: "That's a Linux-like piece of software, right?" Heck, I'm a Linux user, and *I'm* offended.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
What is up with the colors? Red and orange/yellowish?
Whistle could keep their code to themselves -- certainly a number of companies have done that when it comes to BSD-style licenses. Still, they gave it back to the community. The only stipulation was that the community had to wait a little while. I have no problem waiting 6 months (or even a year) to use a companies add-ons. If they're not useful after a year, then they probably weren't that important to begin with.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
This looks like the old windows "Hot Dog Stand" color scheme. You know, the one alleged to cause psychotic fits...
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
the article was all about microsoft being a monopoly. all he said was "yes, we use bsd on our systems, it is a good os"
red and gold...YUM! NOTE: it's spelled C-O-L-O-U-R-S, you yankees.
It's most likely because someone's experimenting with colour in the Slash code, and it's colourising all the stories.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Why does netcraft report they're running IIS on doze??
I think the hot dog look is a good one. It goes well with Chuck's image and all. Keep up the good work!
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
Why is this on the frontpage of slashdot? There have been better posts in the bsd section than this one.. and he mentions BSD so little (and incorrectly) its only significant that at least the guy has heard of it and seems impressed. Guess he must really like those sysadmins and developers working under him, who decided on freebsd over linux..
"Open Source?" - Press any key to continue
Only a few things I like about 3.1, and the hotdog stand look is one of them. I say that slashdot should try to mimic the old 3.1 color styles, make slashdot semi-theemable. Just and some old slashdot green and we have slashdog with relish.
http://www.freebsd.org
Hmm... According to Netcraft :
"www.encanto.com is running Microsoft-IIS/3.0 on NT4 or Windows 98"
So, what does that tell us? Just a marketing effort trying to jump on the bash-Microsoft bandwagon, I'd say.
Why do you even bother pretending that the reason this was posted was because it was about BSD? It's pretty obvious that this article is here because it's a typical Slashdot anti-Microsoft article. Let's have a little credibility, please.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
First of all...
(rant) WHY DO PEOPLE THINK THAT POSTING "FIRST POST" IS SO DAMN COOL WHEN IN REALITY IT JUST MAKES THEM LOOK LIKE MORONS BECAUSE THEY'RE ADDING JACK TO THE CONVERSATION?? (/rant)
Okay, anyway, I think this is a great decision on Frankenberg's part. For him to go out and pick FreeBSD from all of his available choices says a lot for his character. He COULD have picked Novell because of past relations - he COULD have picked Linux to smack Microsoft upside the head - but he didn't want to play politics with companies - he just wanted what was best for his company and their needs. Also, FreeBSD IS awfully flexible, so if a minor change is needed to customize something to fit them better, then it's just a matter of fixing the code.
I find it highly respectable to see a man who analyzes what he needs and picks the best tool to fulfill those needs without taking into consideration what other people or companies are going to think. It's his dream - let him make it happen with the tools of his choice.
...presumably
Nik,
read the interview again. The media's not the one misrepresenting the BSD license. The CEO is. When your own pointy-hairs don't know what they're talking about, it's hardly fair for you to blame the media.
What about Mozilla? It seems to me that Mozilla will help us recover from the damage done by Microsoft.
Even in jest, infalmmatory comments are not appropriate. If they were, then we should all get a soapbox everyone was required to read, if they read a story, on which we could express our words of witty biasedness.
:)
Of course, mine would be: FreeBSD sucks sweaty donkey nads
...and that would be ok, because I was just joking witcha.
Some executives[?] at Andover[?] must have figured out how to make slashdot[?] be more like an eMac[?]. Colorfull[?] and more userfriendly[?] Watch out for those lawsuits[?] though :)
-- Tov Are Jacobsen
Ha. First post, does that bug you? I am not touching you. Seriously, ranting about first posts are dumber than doing them. Yes, because of your eloquent prose, all of the first posters will never do it again. Get a grip.
Even better, one of this company's main products is their own Web Server, and they're still using IIS. Ahhh comedy, thy name is Slashdot! ;-)
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
The colors remind me of a hotdot stand. A ballgame would be nice too. Why don't we have college baseball widely aired on TV?
This may be mildly off-topic, but in a somewhat related note: some of the technews sites I've visited today had articles allowing as how many of Microsoft's less-willing/more-abused "partners" and many of their competitors are gnashing their teeth in anticipation of righteous revenge following Judge Jackson's FoF. One is given cause to wonder if anybody over at Microsoft ever considered that their aggressive tactics might one day come back to haunt them?
One suspects that Encanto is just one example of a potential long string of such decisions. Now made all the more likely because of the Court's FoF.
Like a fresh breeze blowing through the industry :-).
Besides your post being flamebait...
/.) If this is 'working together', I wonder what you'd see as seperate?
>BSD is a clear case of stubborn pride and "not invented here" syndrome.
Perhaps its EVEN simpler, that the BSD licence is more to the liking of developers who want to protect THIER rights to do what they want with their code, as opposed to the rights of the sourcecode to be free. (See the viral nature of GPL debates for further info)
>splitting 3rd party developers' tasks
Perhaps if vendors supported ALL the forms of Linux, *INCLUDING* Linux emulation under SCO/Solaris/BSD, there would not be this 'splitting' you speak of, but provide no evidence of.
>start working together, united, in building a better OS
In the same way the number of Linux distros exceed 100? (107 was a number posted on
>Only after we all make peace
Why don't YOU start....and stop posting flamebait, ya troll? Why don't *YOU* ask vendors to write code that runs with *ALL* the Linux implementations, INCLUDING SCO, Solaris AND BSD???
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
Here's why:
Linux is under the GPL. We hate the GPL.
Linux is technically inferior to BSD. Linux is an SVR4 clone. It has a poor development model. Just a few reasons why this will never happen.
Furthermore, BSD isn't fragmenting the UNIX community, Linux is. BSD was in widespread usage before Linux. The real UNIX fragmentation problem is the absurd number of Linux distros, which, despite what some Linux folk say, have very significant differences. Also, we're not 'splitting tasks'. Hardly anyone develops specifically for BSD, in fact, we suggest that they develop for Linux, since we can run the binaries natively, and port the source fairly easily.
I'm really getting sick of the Linux mentality that we need a gleaming, one world OS. The world needs different OSes, because every OS sucks at certain things, and they're always going to. The Open Source movement is about MORE decisions, not less, and the more choices we have, the better.
-lx
Looks to me like the horse to bet on is Apple. With a BSD foundation and a workable user interface, it's the best of both worlds. I just installed Red Hat 6.1 with Gnome. It's interface and usability sucks compared to my G3 running Mac OS 8.6.
There's a cliche that comes to mind... Don't keep all your eggs in one basket. I like to use it when promoting colonization of other planets, but I think it applies here as well. I think it also applies to the various Linux distributions, which some people find so troubling. Why should I have to run Redhat (for example) if Slackware appeals more to me?
-- $SIGNATURE
> Stop playing hippie counterculture wannabe and unite the 'nix community
BSD is hippie counterculture?
I wouldn't say the BSD has a "not invented here" syndrome either.
Maybe you should do some reading.
BSD.org
FreeBSD
OpenBSD
NetBSD
Something I noticed was that all the stories are not colored this way. The BSD stories are. And these are the colors on the FreeBSD site. Coincidence?
BSD is now a Linux-like OS?
Hey, if it turns out that people like this, then maybe each day could have a different colour. hmmmmm....it's friday, so that must mean Slashdot Brown! Or maybe the person coding the page accidentally put in the numbers for green in the red place. Remember, its RGB!
Ceci n'est pas une sig.
Okay, I think this is about enough. I know i'm not supposed to feed the trolls, but I cannot help it.
Will the Anonymous Coward jerking off on an automatic complaint generator please KEEP IT TO YOURSELF?! I really don't need or want to see it. In fact, I rather explicitly DO NOT want to see it.
PS These new colors really bite. At least give me an option to keep the default slash colors.
PSS : Warning : This post may be 100% Content Free!
"Binaries may die but source code lives forever"
-- Unknown
SkyHawk
Andrew Fremantle
go www.linuxsucks.com for more info
it's pretty hypocritical to call BSD fragmented. just look at all the linux dists! and why does everyone think fragmention is inherently bad?
If so, it's pretty apropos.
/. is color coding stories from now on, we need a poll!! :)
But if
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
bsd now has a crappy IP stack and sys v init
>Looks to me like the horse to bet on is Apple.
/// owners who believed the product had a 5 year life.
Apple will shaft you as a developer.
Ask:
Apple ][ forever believers
Newton Developers
OpenDoc
CHiRP/PREP, the Clone makers
And the NeXT developers who were told:
YellowBox was the new platform of choice (Then why Carbon?)
Intel version of Rhapsody
Ask consumers of Apple products if they feel shafted
Ask:
The Brittish if they feel Apple has treated them well.
The buyers of the 500/450/400 Mhz machines.
Clone buyers.
PPC Owners who were supposed to have Rhapsody, as per WWDC 1997.
Newton owners with the fatal -10061 bug
Apple
And on and on. Apple burns people like Microsoft. The only difference is you can live fat while being burned by Microsoft.
Onto Mac OS X....
Mac OS X has *ONE* big hurdle. NetInfo. Everyting is linked to NetInfo, as so you have to either re-compile common tools to de-netinfo things, add to tools NetInfo hooks, OR make double entries.
Your basic compile-and-go-model that we are now used to doesn't happen with Mac OS X because of NetInfo. If you need to touch the user info...you can't just compile and go.
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
It's all part of the show :-)
As to the "Not news-worthy news": umm...notice how this article was on the front page? And how not all Ask Slashdot/Slashdot Radio/Apache/Your Rights Online articles make it to the front page either? It's a fact of life: not everything can make it to the front page, this is a way for the articles to make it for those who are interested in it. If you want "freak little group," consider taco hell! Now that's freaky (and I love it).
ufdraco
The fact that he's using an open source OS is good, and smart. But I've said this before and I'll say it again: If this guy were in a position to create a monopoly, he would, just like Gates. Most businessmen are ruthless enough. Thats how business works, and thats why we need the government to keep monopoly power in check.
Novell, netscape, and any number of other companies got beat up by the bully, Microsoft. Now that the bully is falling down, the executives are flexing their ego's and trying to get their "self-esteem" back. Other than the fact that choosing an open-source OS is a Good Thing, this is nothing more than ego flexing.
Someone call Crayola! That would be a cool name for them to add to their collection! :)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I think the fact that their web site isn't being run by one of their own servers, but on Windows is a VERY IMPORTANT fact. Why is this post marked so low?
Yeah, and who're you going to trust when it comes to security? Apple or the OpenBSD team?? Bit of a no-brainer methinks.
The state of moderation on Slashdot is rather pathetic. The whole preaching to the choir thing is giving undeserving posts far too many points. I don't agree with the AC, nor do I agree with this joker.
why don we have a banchmark here or comparison pors/cons of linux and freebsd? both parties are bashing and always saying one is th better and one is not.. but no proof or basis.
Hey Nik, why didn't you post the cool OpenSSH article I submitted? It certainly seems much more worthwhile then this crap you've made up. I read the original article and it's quite clear your pulling things out of your on this one.
you sound like all the other uniformed slashdot weenies who make idiotic pro-linux comments just for the sake of making idiotic pro-linux comments. go run solaris with hundreds-thousands of concurrent threaded network connections and see whether your linux box or your solaris box goes down first.
learn youre stuff, script kiddie. slowlaris isn't even open source. do you even know how to program with networks?
I've been using FreeBSD for a few months, and and have found the performance and stability to be better than Linux. This is wholly non-scientific evaluation on my part, and I've been curious about how the two really compare.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
You stupid fool. You missed the part about about how fragmenting isn't going to cause the world to blow up. Not all our needs are the same, so we don't all use the same OSs.
look like thats it.
Now, I wouldn't want to have to wade through tons of these, but I do have to admit that it totally cracked me up. The fact that some people (not you) actually believe that they're serious posts, and the fact that I could actually see stuff like that getting published, just goes to show you the sorry direction that education has taken due to the prevailing liberal nepotism. Kinda reminds me of the classic Sokal's Experiment.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
[space considerations preclude listing all the myriad of companies raking in the bucks by using embedded Linux, the mp3 appliance market is a prime example]
I'm of the same attitude myself. I'm starting to prefer OpenBSD for things like firewalls, but I wouldn't want to use it as my desktop machine every day. Each has it's place... what it's best at.
Coming from the Linux viewpoint, it's not as if anything big is missing with OpenBSD, but the little things annoy me. Like having to manually install GNU ls (I'd die without --color :-), samba, etc. Yes, that stuff is in the ports tree, but it takes more effort to install and configure.
Take printing for example. With OpenBSD by default, I get the lpd binary and not much more. I have to do the rest myself.
With RedHat Linux (even distributions a year or two old) I can pop up the ol' printtool, point, click, click, read the resulting printcap entry, and I'm done. It already comes with a decent print filter, ghostscript, mpage, the whole 9 yards. It's easy. I like it.
Yes, I know, I'm being lazy. I could read the printcap (5) man page, I could write or find my own print filter. I could, but I don't want to. Setting up printers is so mundane it should be easy and quick (less than 5 minutes).
There are some things that I do want to learn all the details of... where I pore over each line of code to make sure it's correct, like the firewall rules. I don't mind at all spending a couple hours on that.
I'm certainly very glad of the work Theo and the gang are doing, but that doesn't mean that OpenBSD is the be-all and end-all. Neither are any of the Linux distributions I've tried: RedHat (complete and easy to configure, but bloated) and Debian (better install configurations, but slower release schedule and I really don't like dselect). I'm glad they all exist so that I can pick what's right for the job.
The biggiest problem is that most people who claim to know how to program with networks, don't have a clue. Creating web pages, and calling yourself an HTML programmer doesn't count.
just because something's open source doesn't mean it's the fastest, best, or coolest. Er, excuse me, "kewelest."
Besides the gratuitous spelling errors (wtf is Free BSD??), and the inaccurate licensing descriptions, the author also displays a complete lack of knowledge regarding the competition between DR-DOS and MS-DOS.
But DR-DOS couldn't cut it, and disappeared from the market. Frankenberg believes DR-DOS was driven out by a ruthless Bill Gates.
Caldera released a lot of information a few monthes back regarding DR-DOS and the trial. Every version of DR-DOS had comperable or higher reviews than MS-DOS, and Microsoft refused to distribute Windows APIs to companies that worked with DR-DOS, and Microsoft deliberately put code in beta versions of Windows 3.1 so it behave erratically or crash with DR-DOS.
But hasn't Microsoft's monopoly power dwindled since the trail started? New competitors now are on the scene, including the Linux operating system.
AFAIK a company is considered a monopoly if it controls 80% or more of a market. MS controls somewhere in the mid-90 percent range. In other words, millions of people could switch to Linux tomorrow and MS would still enjoy monopoly power.
In your current company, Encanto, you don't use Microsoft's software. You're using a Linux-like software, right?
Ugh. Has linux really become so much of a cultural icon that all versions of UNIX and UNIX variants are assumed to be "Linux-like"? "Hey, you're using {MacOS,BeOS,GNOME,KDE,any windowed-gui interface}, that's Windows-like right?"
Why was it so tough for you to take on Microsoft? Did DR-DOS fail for the simple reason that Microsoft had better software?
With the possible exception of MS Office vs. Wordperfect Suite (where MS also used illegal bundling tactics), MS has never had _better_ software than any of it's competitors -- their products have always been marginally worse at best. DR-DOS was no exception -- it outperformed and outrated MS-DOS for years until MS tied Windows to DOS, and refused to deal with Novell while they owned DR-DOS.
In retrospect, isn't browser technology fairly insignificant? Would more browser competition change the technology market?
Yup, browsers sure are insignificant. URLs on billboards, _tons_ of ads on television for web pages -- I can't think of anything significant effect the _web_ or _web browsers_ have had on society or business. Whoops, actually internet (specificially the web) is changing everything! But I guess that's pretty insignificant. As for the second sentence.... Hey author, did you fail your fucking econ class in middle school? Ever heard of this little thing called market forces, or perhaps supply and demand?
-- rot13 my email address for the real thing
Odds of being killed by lightning and winning the lottery in the same day: 1 in 2^55
Interestingly, slashdot's colors just changed from green-and-white to red and yellow... but just on the "read more" or "comments" pages...
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Don't forget the PowerBook 5300 (I think thats what it was). It was not only a laptop, but a personal desktop hibachi grill all-in-one!
Yes that one. Sorry.