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Unreal Tournament Not To Include Linux Executable
AugstWest writes "According to Brandon Reinhart's .plan, even though the Linux support for Unreal Tournament will be on schedule with the rest of development, GT Interactive has decided not to include the Linux executable within the box. After Carmack's statement yesterday, the implications are pretty big. The only thing that could let them know how big the Linux gamer base is would be to have everyone interested in the Linux port make their opinions known, both publicly and to GT. " Politely let GT know - and thanks to Brandon Reinhart, who will be making the Linux executable available for download after UT hits the shelves.
GT decided that they didn't want to support a Linux version and didn't want it in the box.
To my understanding they have a working linux port, but don't want to expand their market... Its just bad business.
I will by the Windows version as soon as it comes out. I have been playing the amazing demos as they have been released and am way too excited to sit on my hands waiting for the Linux port.
I may buy the Linux version if I get a chance, but I have to buy the Windows version immediately.
Computers can only simulate determinism. ~Hermetic.
id is making it so if you buy a Windows version, you won't be able to get the Linux or Mac executables until after Christmas.
At least GT is letting people download Linux stuff right away. But I don't see why they wouldn't just include it on the CD... strange.
Sig missing. Reward.
The only things that matter to management is the bottom line. Boycotting or pirating Unreal Tournament won't accomplish anything, you just don't appear in the bottom line. Maybe nobody using Linux plays games, or maybe everybody boycotted us but there's not enough information to tell. We did sell stacks of copies to Windows users though.
Beyond registration a means of sending the message en masse would be useful as well. Something that says the only reason we the undersigned parted with money for Unreal Tournament was because a Linux port was available.
don't send hordes of slashdotters complaining about something they aren't interested in, but want just because of having sakes . If there isn't a big enough market to justify a linux exec then so be it
I think it is somewhat of a good idea to release the Linux binaries separately, so that they can keep track (with some degree of accuracy, albeit not 100%) of the number of people interested in running it on a Linux box.
Most people I know that run Linux go to Windows to play games client-side, but as far as servers go, we stick to Linux for running a dedicated game. GT should keep this in mind, and release the Linux binaries immediately upon release of the game in stores (which I suppose is today).
One of the main factors they should also keep in mind is that not everyone has a T1+ connection to the net, so if they're going to be releasing binaries that add up to several MBs worth of data, they had better plan on mirroring it in several FAST places - not just their site and cdrom.com (or another heavily-loaded mirror)...
I fear that Quake3's boxed Linux version won't gain as many buyers as it was once expected, due simply to the nature of the game in comparison with id's past games, but UT has a real chance here. Unreal was a horrid game over a network, but UT looks very promising (especially over a LAN =9 Add in random taunts to your victims to phenomenal looks, and you've got a fun game!
"Try that in Windows!"
In other words, we were to lame to stand up to GT. What a cop out. Come on Epic, stand up for principles like id does.
Now I'm going to have to reconsider whether or not to buy UT.
IMNSHO, just because, as a community, we are used to subsisting on unofficial, unsupported "ports" doesn't mean we should keep tolerating this situation.
Don't buy UT unless it has "Linux" on the box. And here's why: if a company knows that X percent of the paying customers use its products under the XYZ OS, it hires ($$$ !) a proportionate number of developers and support staff. The more XYZ developers, the better XYZ support for the next release - it's a feedback system!
It's important to understand the difference between a distributor and a game studio. Epic Megagames (and I believe Digital Extremes) are the folks that have actually created the game. They have gone to great lengths to ensure that there is a linux version for folks like us to play without having to boot into windows.
The idiots at GTI are the ones that have decided, for no discernable reason, not to include the linux executables. If you want to snub GT, simply order direct from Epic, if they offer it direct.
In any case, it is GTI that is snubbing linux, not the actual game creators. GTI was purchased by Infogrames this past Tuesday, let's hope the new management has a better clue for future releases.
If you snub them for this, then in the future it's likely they won't bother to create a linux version at all. Far better to bitch to GTI/Infogrames.
Unbreakable toys can be used to break other toys.
I noticed there wasnt an address or an active petition linked anywhere.. Thought these address from the GT Interactive "Contact Us" page might be of use:
Customer Service
If you have a general inquiry about existing or upcoming GT titles, choose from the following list of customer service agents:
The one to contact: customerservice@gtinteractive.com
And for those of you for whom it is appropriate:
Press Inquries,
Product-specific
f you are a member of the PRESS with a product-specific inquiry, write to Product Communications.
~GoRK
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I don't see what the big deal is. They took the time and energy to do a Linux port, and they are making it available, just not in the box because they probably don't have the resources to hire and train support staff to handle what is likely a *very* small user base. And let's face it, as with most Linux problems, you'll be able to find ample support from the community. So in the end, the Linux crowd gets a great game (and boy is it) and GT tests the waters to see if there is enough interest to do 'in the box' games. A win-win.
Yeah, but the software already exists. Adding it to a CD, and marking it unsupported, and plastering a "COOL it works with LINUX" logo on the box costs you nothing. Even if one CD is sold because of this, you have made profit. If none are sold, you lose nothing.
Only an idiot wouldn't add it into the CD...
A couple of people who have posted on here so far said that they wouldn't buy UT because GT won't be shipping the Linux version in the box. Well, think a moment - Epic Megagames (UT's authors) didn't make the decision. GT made the decision. Epic, on the other hand, went through a lot of effor to make sure the Linux port existed, was up to par, etc. They did thier bit for the OS revolution here - GT dropped the ball. I'm still buying UT on Monday when it hits the shelves - I support Epic. However, I'm going to be following my purchase up with an email to GT, and to Infogrames to point out how much of a mistake this sort of thinking is, based on my feelings as a customer when it comes to Linux support. Not to talk bad about them but, this *IS* GT we are talking about. They've managed to have thier hands on some seriously good sellers (Unreal, Deer Hunter (*SIGH* A chart topper when it comes to sales. Go fig.) - and managed to still have serious problems financially (strong sales, and still big losses? Wow.) I'm hoping Infogrames becoming majority shareholder in GT might turn things arround. Anyway - write letters to explain how you, as a Linux user, feel about thier decision. Don't hurt Epic's pocketbook just cause the twits above them screwed it up for them.
Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr - looking for something to read? Check out my three free novels at MidnightRyder.org
His name is Brandon Reinhart.... not Brian. Thanks.
:wq
specifically because I wanted to show support for Epic and GT for cross-developing a game on Linux (and its good, too). Just got the note today that it already shipped. Cripes.
I'll still d/l the Linux port but it does concern me just a little that this news comes out the _day_ that this supposedly hits shelves and pre-orders are shipped. Least they could do is throw in a hat, t-shirt or mug?
Bugger, didn't want to hassle with competing for download with everyone else again, either!
(whining mode/off)
Slashdotters getting excited to purchase a closed-source product. Wow. Never thought I'd see that.
What's the difference here folks? Is it because it's "just a game" and if it's unstable and buggy who cares? Or is it because open-source games just suck and we're forced to pay for good proprietary game software?
By the way...if anyone knows of an open-source game that doesn't suck, I'd like to know about it. Don't mention the obvious Carmack released code.
Time to watch my Karma drop...
i know i was just bitching about this yesterday, but assuming all the world's an x86 is as bad as assuming all the world is running windows.
i get the impressive that a lot of game developers believe linux only runs on x86 (or maybe that ports to other archs are "ports" and not "real" linux, or something like that).
bottom line: if you're going to support linux (please do!), please make builds for archs other than x86! or, if the code depends on x86 asm and hasn't been ported to other archs, then say so; that is, say it's for linux/x86, not just "linux". saying it's "for linux" is pretty vague (unless you mean you're distributing the source and i'll build on any arch linux runs on).
sorry to rant, but non-86x users are being left out (much the same way linux is being left out, in favor of windows) and not even mentioned.
maybe i'm being a little pedantic, but it'd be nice to see other archs get more games (yes, i know there are some games available for ppc and alpha).
Bravo to Activision and every other company releasing a Linux version of popular games.
Activision is actually publishing Q3 for Linux? I thought that Id was looking for another publisher familiar with Linux to do that. There was an old
I would find the link to the old article, but I can't search the archives beyond a few weeks back. What's up with that?
The UT Linux executables will be available for download rather than being included in the box. We don't like this either. We REALLY, REALLY wanted the Linux executables to be on the CD, we reserved space for it, and actually had it there in the directory structure during beta. GT asked us yank it, because they were worried about tech support issues: that thousands of Linux users would have questions about installation that GT reps (who are only familiar with Windows and consoles) wouldn't be able to answer. We obliged with their request, because GT is responsible for performing (and paying for) UT tech support, and it didn't seem fair to put the burden on them. Here is part of a message I sent to a GT exec, advocating putting Linux on the UT CD-Rom: ---begin--- Why Linux on the Unreal Tournament box is a very good move: First, Red Hat Linux is selling very well in retail, and there's a good chance that by word of mouth, Linux users will pick up Unreal Tournament with their Linux purchase or afterwards. I'd be very surprised if we didn't gain over 3% more sales from Linux users. Now if UT sells a million units (Tim's wild guess), that's 30,000 additional units. If we make it *very* clear that the Linux version is unsupported (no tech support calls), then surely this is a profitable move. Second, while Linux users are far outnumbered by Windows users, the statistics don't tell the whole story. Linux users are the hardest of the hardcore. They're among the movers and shakers who are serious deathmatchers (Quake 2 and Quake 3 are available for Linux); they run major community web sites; they run servers on T1 and T3 connections. These people have far more influence on gaming than their numbers indicate. Third, Linux is gaining an incredible amount of momentum, and sticking the Linux penguin logo on the UT box would further the Unreal franchise's position as a leading-edge product that's not afraid to push into new territories. This has always been our hallmark -- Epic shipped the first-ever DirectX game (Fire Fight, published by Electronic Arts); now the Unreal Tournament demo is the first DirectX7 release; and now we have the chance to be the first game to ship simultaneous with Windows and Linux versions in the same box. ---end--- GT considered all of this and understood the issues, but still had overriding concerns about the cost. I can't say I blame them; I sure wouldn't want to be responsible for supporting users with 10 different versions each of 10 different Linux distributions, each with a completely different set of video drivers, x-windows shells, permissions, and possibly even recompiled kernels. Linux's approach kicks ass on the Internet with its open, user-driven community. But it doesn't seem too compatible with the mass-market distribution model, where companies pay rooms full of people to answer phones and help customers, and where one tech support call wipes out all the profit from a box sold. Emailing companies like GT *politely* to show your support for the Linux platform is a great idea. Just keep in mind that, to publishers, the Linux thing isn't simply a popularity contest; supporting Linux needs to make sense financially, and there are some serious issues with support and compatibility they need to consider. Tim Sweeney Epic Games http://unreal.epicgames.com/
I can see why they don't want to support the Linux version- they probably don't have the staff yet to support the OS. Fine. But why not put the Linux executables on the CD anyway, and just put in a note saying "Not supported", the way they did with the Unread Editor when it came out. Complaining for nothing? Maybe. This just seems like pointy-haired management.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
I don't know if this was previously suggested in a post as I only scanned them, but here goes my spin on things. Why don't we try to play the idiot? I know this goes against MANY peoples grain, but hear me out. When the windows version comes out in stores, send Unreal Tech support an E-Mail asking how you get the full version for Linux. Most tech support shops gather information about commonly asked questions, With enough submittions, this would end up there. THEN, when they say to download the linux port, and purchase the windows version, send in the registration card and mention your run Linux on it. Already it is going to appear in at least TWO managers hands, one from tech support, the other from product registration. The downloads will also appear in yet another managers reports. I can understand there not being enough market value to shipping out Unreal, however, I don't see as it would cost them more than they would make to offer a linux bundle on CD from their website. Any comments or added suggestions on this would be GREAT, as I plan on doing this.
"Out, OUT! You demons of STUPIDITY!" - Dogbert
Refuse the shipment when the mailman or UPS person shows up at your door. If you don't get to meet them yourself, write in big black letters "RETURN TO SENDER - LINUX VERSION NOT ENCLOSED".
Then, to get your point across, call your credit card company/bank, and tell them to cancell the payment, because the item being shipped is not what you ordered in the first place.
Just a few suggestions.
This space for rent. Call 1-800-STEAK4U
I can think of a couple of reasons to do this, actually...
1) Gauging interest in the Linux community. If they sell a Windows/Linux hybrid box, the sales will probably be considered as Windows for statistical reasons (it's just the way the statistical agencies do it; it sucks, but that's how it is). It's a lot easier to keep track of downloads than sales, particularly in this case.
2) This one may actually be more exciting: port potential. Remember that Linux has ports to many architectures. Now that Glide's gone Open-Source, there's potential that it, and subsequently UT, could theoretically be ported to many different architectures. Now, unless you encode the installer in Perl or something (which I very much doubt they would do) you have to make an installer AND executable for each architecture (you have to make the executable regardless). That can add up rather quickly, particularly if there will be many ports. You can't rely on RPM or any other package manager either, since different distros have different systems; your other alternative is to use one of each (which takes up even more space) or write your own installer from scratch which would run on everything. Consider also that the UT media is going to take up almost all of the CD. It makes no sense to have a whole CD just for Linux installers, when you can have them downloadable.
These are just thoughts; the second one in particular isn't all that probable but it's a possibility. It's something to consider, at any rate.
I am disturbed by reports that GT has chosen not to include the Linux version of Unreal in it's commercial offering of the game.
Whilst I can understand and appreciate that it is difficult to offer support for a market of unknown size, especially if there are no regular GT employees who are familiar with the different Linux distributions, I feel that there are alternative solutions which may be beneficial to all concerned.
The Linux community, as a whole, is used to taking on the role of tecnical support. If enough volunteers (vetted by GT as necessary) could be found, within a reasonable timescale, to take on the role of unpaid, 3rd-party tech support for the game, with a written performance guarantee, would GT be willing to reconsider it's decision?
I feel that outsourcing all parts of the Linux operation that GT are not comfortable with undertaking would satisfy the gaming markets and improve GT's official sales & profits, without any risk of adverse effects.
Thank you for your time.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
If you need one at all. I like the idea of mailorder and CD vending machines in the retail space. GT, you people need to buy a clue. Anyone who can manage a linux system, get openGL and sound running, will not need much support from a company that burns CD's and puts them in expensive wastefull boxes.
WARNING:
The following will offend simple, close-minded individuals.
Wow... I wish people would take a second or two to actually *think* before they post. The decision to not put a Linux binary on the CD *with* the Windows version is most likely for 2 reasons.
#1. They don't want every newbie who's trying out Red Hat and has no idea about Linux trying to get it to work. They would have to support installation issues as well as bugs.
#2. If it is *included* on the Windows CD there is no way for them to know how many people are using UT in Linux.
By only putting the binaries on the 'net, GT is showing that they like the idea of Linux gaming. Newbie users will be less likely to try it without doing a bit of research. The geeks will be able to play UT in Linux with their *windows* CD and the binaries. They will not have to expend members of their technical support staff to solving issues on Linux. Also, they will be able to get a fairly accurate picture of how many people are actually using UT under Linux by the number of downloads for the binary.
Amazing! GT doesn't seem like such a bad guy to me, but then again, I'm not a crazy conspirist. Not everything is done by companies because of MS. Companies do what makes them *money*. That's what companies do. Once the Linux crazies (You hardcore folks out there who cannot accept anything that is not 100% GPL and Open-Source) grow the hell up and get over this, companies may actually start really putting some force behind Linux gaming.
I personally will be running UT under Linux, and can hardly wait. Anything to keep from having to reboot into Windows (Hello uptime!). Now, go buy the game and stop whining. Be sure to show your support of Linux by downloading the binaries direct from the official source. We *want* them to see how many people download it, then they'll see that there *is* money to be made in selling Linux games.
DISCLAIMER: These ideas were scooped up from deep space, therefore they do not belong to me, my employer, Mickey Mouse, Bill Gates, Linus Torvalds, the United States Government, or even Tux. Enjoy and lighten up people.
wolf31o2 Developer, Gentoo Linux Games Team
Within a month there will probably be several patches that you have to download no matter what version you play. I don't think I own a game that can just be installed off the CD without needing a download patch. Quake 2, Starcraft, Unreal, Half-Life. If you buy a PC game you will be downloading something, no matter what's on the CD. iD is a pioneer for providing separate boxes for Windows vs Linux, just to give us a chance to support Linux. I will want to play both versions so I will be downloading something no matter what. Also, they will have a patch within a few weeks of its release, I'm sure, so we'll still be downloading patches. Epic wrote a cross-platform (Windows and x86 Linux) kick-ass game. Anything else they do is automatically forgiven. :)
UT demo on my linux box runs faster than on my win98 box.
.Xclients file to load UnrealTournament instead of KDE when I want to play. Then the resources are mine for taking! mwa ha ha ha ha ha!
Of course, I made a "hack" in my
It's not that easy in Windows. I'd imagine a reboot or 3 would be involved also.
"More organs means more human." - Zim
Sincerly I consider that by not delivering Unreal with Linux GT will deliver a bad commercial image to its game. Linux could be considered an outsider and this may be seen by many people as outlaw.
This has the danger to give an incentive to piracy. Today we have to face the fact that a commercial product can only avoid piracy by creating an image of quality and respectability. Or else it will be either ignored or pirated by a good segment of its potential market.
I already saw Unreal's demo and was fascinated. If GT produces a good and well strucutured game I would probably buy it. But by cuting legs and probably introducing some burden in the ease to use and compatibility then it could be probable that I would take a look at its pirated version.
Seems strange? I know a lot of people who have seen The Matrix in pirated videos. Now these same people are storming cinemas and buying official DVDs and videos to see the "real thing". Maybe this has managed to make The Matrix to overpass the popularity of Star Wars in several places. Star Wars had also a big audience. However there was a huge wave to hunt down pirated Star Wars stuff. And sincerly, when I saw it, I was disappointed. I couldn't look at more than 10 minutes. Too childish and too silly for my taste.
That's how we see things in Russia. If you make a great product you can be sure that people will buy the "real thing". If not, then it's either "fire and forget" or "jolly roger"...
I have a theory here:
* Anonymous coward
* Middle of nowhere but won't say where
* Secret non-specific "government job"
* assigned to read geek publications
YOU ARE A MAN IN BLACK AREN'T YOU!
Admit it, the place in the middle of nowhere is Area 51.
We REALLY thought better of you then playing deathmath all day... Don't you have REAL rayguns? Real alien invaders to shoot?
-
We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.
I am a realitivly new Linux user.
:)
Despite this fact I have come to understand the help yourself and rtfm mentality. The part of GT's logic I find hard to follow is the cost/analysis they seem to have done. Yes their support personel may not have very extensive Linux knowledge, but I don't think that there are a lot of Linux users out there who even USE tech support.
I find it hard to believe that any Linux user who would actually buy the boxed version with the binary Linux executables in it would be the type of user who would call tech support.
Yes I had to fight to get my SoundBlaster. I pissed away a few hours with pnpdump and isapnp. I'm more knowledgable as a result.
Its my opinion that GT made a mistake doing this. I WILL wait for the boxed Linux version of Q3. I would have bought UT as well. The demo rocks.
Too bad GT doesn't have a better grasp on they type of people that most Linux users are
What incentive, then, will they have to include Linux binaries in future releases? The mindset will be that the Linux users will buy the game anyways and they would simply allow you to download them online, without support, although the other supported OSes get it for the same (high) price, part of which I'm assuming FOR the support. The risk is that the Linux users will never get support, and the distributor is still making money. So what will they care?
hmm, I would place an order right now on my visa card, $50, for the retail linux version of Unreal Tournament.
Shoot, I will buy two copies so I can make a dedicated server on my box (on a T1).
I refuse to buy windows software though. The last piece of windows software I bought was Quake2.. and guess how I played it?
If GT is so DUMB that they actually REMOVED linux support, when a large portion of users have been WAITING for it, I don't want to support them. Luckily because they funded Epic, not buying the game doesn't hurt Epic that much- it just hurts GT.
isn't what it's cracked up to be. I should know... I used to be in tech support. Let me explain! I was one of those FEW people who actually tried to help. I had customers BEGGING me not to tell them to reboot or reinstall! I got my butt chewed more than once just for fixing someone's problem!
I got a little story for ya. One of the other guys, a young kid, started racking up massively good call stats; we figured out why. When he'd get a call, he'd ask if the problem was hardware or software; if the user replied, "Software", he'd say, "We don't do software support" and drop the call; if the user said, "Hardware", he'd hit the drop button immediately. He got promoted.
While this story may not be indicative of ALL tech support agencies, it is certainly representative of the underlying business plan of most. Get the customer OFF THE PHONE and TAKE THE NEXT CALL.
That's tech support for ya!
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
one reboot
--
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Epic already had space allocated to the linux exe, but GT made them take it out, why? beacuse of *support costs* nothing more, GT's people didn't know anything about linux, and it would have cost them a ton of money to teach them. By putting it up on there website, they are still able to get all the linux gamers to play the game, but they don't have to pay to retrain there phone staff, or field calls about it... (remember, *one* call to tech support whipes out *all* the profits on that box...)
--
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n