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Wince at WinCE's New Name: 'Windows Powered'
Lycestra writes "CNet has an article stating Windows CE is being renamed. In the spirit of such names as Office, Money, and Explorer, it is being renamed "Windows Powered". I expected something more like 'Poke-Windows'."
Compact Edition, I thought. I'm sure I've seen that in official literature somewhere. Then again I'm probably talking out of my arse.
--
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
"It's just as slow, completely unstable, and 1/8 the size."
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
Mike.
-- "So, what's the deal with Auntie Gerschwitz et all?"
Then change the name, force preloads by sending Vito to the OEMs, and pay companies like AT&T BILLIONS to use it.
:)
How many times has M$FT done this in the name of innovation? Please don't answer this question, disk space is a terrible thing to waste.
Locutus
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
All they are doing is unifying their products under a familiar and popular brand name, and hoping that people will think "Windows? That's what I'm running at work/home, so I've got to get a Windows Powered handheld, too." They're obviously hoping that the brand name recognition will pull WinCE/WP out of the market share hole that PalmOS has driven it into.
Yes, it's pure marketing drivel. Yes, it's silly. Yes, it's misleading. But hardly surprising, unfortunately. Perception is often more important to sales than reality.
and here it is in clickable form: /media/col/shal/1999/11/30/naming/index.html .
http://www.salon.com
Its pretty entertaining, these people are crazy:
It's this sort of chutzpah that makes the namers at Landor see red. "The Internet is filled with arrogance," says Amy Becker coldly. "You might have a provocative, fun name. But do you have the basis for a lasting brand? We still don't know how compelling a brand Yahoo will be 10 years from now. I sense a real missed opportunity."
"Let's put it this way," says Redhill. "Over the years, we have created and sustained many of the world's most durable brands. We make a lot more hits than companies who think up their own symbols and names. I'm not suggesting that a company couldn't get it right with a stroke of insight or genius or luck. But if it's your own brand, how can you possibly be objective? I mean, would you name your own baby?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
If you have a look at that code... it's been sitting there since, well a long time. It certainly is not an example of open exchange of information.
/. usually are.
before you jump around like a loonie calling people clueless, get a clue yourself.
Of course, this message will be moderated down and called flamebait as are any posts critical of
Fish! LipHo
At the time I was looking around, the only palmtop device with a keyboard that was in my price range was the Cassiopeia A-10 and A-11, both WINCE devices. I needed a keyboard because I type much faster than I write longhand, even on the tiny handheld keyboard.
Soon after my purchase, I learned that WINCE Services were a joke. I couldn't use my Internet connection while having my palmtp connected (they both use dial-up networking) and the freeware Filegram utility was spotty in its performance at best!
A month after I bought my new toy on e-bay, they came out with a keyboard for the Palm Pilot, and I was kicking myself for my mistake. If only I had waited! If I had just been more patient I could have had a bigger keyboard, more software, a supported device and easier syncronization!!!! ARGGGG!
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
"Power Point" isn't anything, but we'll assume it's a noun
It should properly be "Windows-powered", and yes, it's an adjective phrase. I agree; it's useless as a noun. "Arrgh... I installed the latest version of Windows Powered and it crashed."
I suppose they mean that they're going to *describe* the hardward as being "Windows Powered". As the for actual noun name of the operating system... *shrug*
OGL does not run on top of DirectX. Infact now Hardware companys are spending more time on OGL drivers then Direct3d drivers now, beacuse Quake and all its dirivatives run on GL. Since quake is the 'standard' in gaming, cards that run quake better sell better. (This is especialy true of nVidia.)
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
This post wants to be moderated down (-1, Offtopic).
--
Industrial space for lease in Flatlandia.
Java is proprietary to.
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Well, you're definitely a WinCE (or Casio Exx) zealot, but you need to remember, not everyone fits your same situation. My Palm III is worth much more to me than my E100. It has a longer battery life, it will sync with ALL of my computers, and it's significantly smaller. Sure, it's fast, and the screen is nice, but it attempts to be too much. The pen based interface is limiting, to me, and if I need anything taken down, I use the palm. Sure, playing mp3's is nice, but it's not that great. I haven't done it yet, but using my E100 (functionally the same as the 105) to browse a webpage or IRC on it seems like it would be rather pointless. A Libretto or some other sub-mini-nano-notebook makes much more sense in that situation. Playing solitaire in color got me a lot of 'ooh cool's but otherwise I was largely dissatisfied with my WinCE devices (I've had others, one an HP/C and they were all much too large, and the battery life was much too short, in my experience)
Ok, "Compact Edition" was technically correct, but I couldn't resist! :)
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
*Ahem*
Windows CE is not proprietary
*Cough* *Hack*
Yes it is. :^)
On the other hand, what other PDA uses any features that *are not* proprietary
Personally, I'd like to see what Cygnus's offering (Eros I believe its called) is doing... I heard they made a couple of deals. Open Source embedded OS's are definitely on the way. Till then I'll stick to Palm (hopefully I'll actually get one later this year).
ta-ta
--- Journals are boring; Go to my web page instead
It's wonderful to see so many moonies around /.! ^-^
beter than linus? linus sux! Not quite sure what beter is. And I've never had Linus on my computer. Not sure he could run it very well though what with that blue blanket getting in the way all the time. Of coure Linux is great! Far better than Windows CE by any name.
Seriously fellow slashdotters. Don't you just love the windows advocates. Non of them can spell, make complete sentences, yet they claim how superior their OS is.
I have only seen Pokemon once (ok, half an episode; I was about to go into convulsions), but I understand there's something about them needing to suck energy from something or other.
See, the analogy does indeed work.
But you need anothe sticker, "NiMH powered"
CY
I think what is meant is that using the term 'Windows Powered' may imply to the consumer that the device is compatible with (or powered by) the Windows OS when it is really just a useless hack-job. OTOH you can argue that this 'OS formerly known as CE' can be referred to as a member of the Windows family.
IANAL, but I guess it could get a little sticky but nothing that their legal department cannot lie--uh...talk their way out of.
Oh, great. Now you've got me started...
"Jupiter Netscape Crash!"
"Mars Pentium Processor Ignite!"
"Venus Beowulf Chain Encircle!"
"Mercury Microsoft Blast!"
And of course my favorite...
"Moon Kernel Compilation!"
Sorry about the dub attacks; they seemed more appropriate somehow.
Microsoft main goal is to monopolize digital television.
I respectfully disagree with you.
First, yes MS has been putting some major resources into their W2K push, however I don't feel that relates directly with the palm market. MS has such enormous resources I really can't believe that they are limiting efforts in one area due to any other area.
Second, I don't think MS wants to *just* have a market presence in any market, they want to dominate. (As any company would)
Third, I think that MS misjudged (thus far) what the palm market wants. They probably assumed that the standard marketing methods combined with their powerfull distribution channels and the Microsoft/Windows brand would allow them to win by default.
Fourth, If they learned anything from their early (lack of) internet strategies it was that you shouldn't underestimate the potential of any given market. The palm/wireless market might be small potatoes today but it is poised to explode over the next few years. I really don't think they want to miss this boat.
The problem with Windows CE is that MicroSoft cannot make much money of it. The hardware prices are dropping, and nobody will pay TOO much for a palmpilot. If the palms get as expensive as laptops, people will buy a laptop. palms need to cost less than half that price, preferably even less than a third.
:-)
Then microsoft suddenly faces a problem. How much is it possible to get paid, for an operativ system for these thingomajigs? Not much -- if we want to believe Eric S. Raymonds -- who had made this one of "The 7 bullets Microsoft need to dodge within the next 18 months".
And this is one of the points I think he is right about. Just look at all the hardware makers abandoning CE.
--
"Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
Back in the 1970's, Japanese car companies were very quietly working to make their products better, cheaper, and more fuel efficient.
;>
American car companies were changing the positions of the headlights.
I'm sure ms could have spent the marketing focus group money on hiring some talent to make wince better. Or they just could have bought Handspring (is that right?) and manufactured Palm clones. Oh wait, maybe the DOJ would have frowned on that.
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
No, I think "powered" just refers to the energy generated when you eventually end up burning your palm-PC to generate steam and useful electricity.
All of this is off topic but I happen to agree.. /. is all riding the open source movement and the linux community's "moral values" for fun and profit. Can you say... hypocrites!
I think I even spelled it right.
Fish! LipHo
From Babelfish, the first sentence reads:
=)
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Is it me, or does that thing sound like (ahem) Prince?
You know, the old saw: "The Operating System formerly known as Windows CE..." =)
Sorry: "The Operating System formerly known as WinCE..."
And what does that "CE" stands for? "Crash Extremely fast"? "Carry Excess bagagge?" "Could not Exchange data with desktop?"
And what about the new name -- "Powered by Windows"? Why not "Crashed by Windows"? That's more like it...
Don't you just love heaping scorn on the largest software company in the world? What are we going to do once it has faded back into a richly deserved irrelevence?
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Yup, it's all about the $$$. People keep buying so what's the problem? If they can sell it, more power to them. It's like beer....Schlitz is piss-awful, but that doesn't mean they should quit selling it because I still get a good laugh when I see people buying it.
I think the consumer cares [...]
I don't.
I think they used to. Back in the days when PDAs were rare and expensive, they were bought by geeks who cared about such things. Now we're moving to a more mature (sic) market, where they're bought by the naive, or bought as gifts, and sold by the untrained and simian. Increasingly, the only differentiable features between PDAs will be the logo on the case and an inaccurate display card on the shelf at Electrode Hut.
Take a walk through Electrode Hut sometime and listen to people buying real retail products from the real retail sales chain (all shrinkwrap developers should do this regularly). They don't understand the technical issues, and if the sales staff even mention them, they frequently get it wrong (the number of mis-sold Palm IIIe I over-hear !). Maybe you and I know that colour means unusable battery life, but very few retail purchasers do.
No, it's art. (BMA website is here) I think it's time to hand the guy a couple copy of windows for positive use.)
CY
I dont agree with you. Exclusive legal right does not make a system closed or non-propreitary as long as the specs of that system are open.
By that definition, you could say that IBM 390 series ( or any other ) mainframes are propreitary - whereas the PC is not. How about the BIOS ? The original ROM BIos was copyrighted. However since the specs were open, it allowed competitors to make a clean room implementation of the BIOS without violating the copyright.
Wrong.
Java is a trademark. Java standards are open. There are several open source implementations of it. They are just not called "Java" because they have not licensed the Java trademark. They still run Java code and that's the important part.
Sun is walking a fine line trying to keep ownership of Java while keeping it open. There's a lot of whining going on about what Sun is doing, but the fact is that you can run Java Freely (if the FSF meaning of "free") if you want.
But the new name? Ugh. All the devices say "Powered by Windows CE." Now, they get to say:
Powered by Windows Powered.
A bit redundant, no?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
and for the scottish version of mini-win, you happen to get either:
* Fat Windows
or,
* Bastard Windows
*p.s. no offense to the scottish... BTW, if it's not scottish, it's CRAP!
Karnal
Absolutely! I can't find hardly anything IN Win-CE, or Windows for that matter, that isn't proprietary. The only things that seem to get made in some semblance of standardness are those that get crammed down Micro$oft's throat! (Can you say JAVA?)
"Bah!" - Dogbert
CE stands for Compact Edition.
hehe
"Software is like sex- the best is for free"
-Linus Torvalds
IBM DB2 rules. It doesn't suck in comparison, probably about equal. It just isn't marketed as well and not as many people know that it runs on little unix and intel boxes too.
Let me answer that... So you are telling me that it is ok to do bad things if you are paid enough to do it? So, the more you are paid, the more bugs you produce!! Well, this must be why Linux has less bugs, because people are not paid to do it, most of the time!!!!
:-(
I understand what is happening at M$, I worked for a company who forced us to deliver bad software because some marketing guys did a lousy job, corporate guys did not understand software, etc, etc, etc. But there is a limit, and I finally resigned, and let me tell you something, I FEEL GREAT ABOUT IT, EVERY F....G DAY!!!
Anyway, I did own some stock, but not much...
Regards.
Powered implies it will work right? How about Mini-Windows?
if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans
Maybe those same riceboys could install some of those Clarion AutoPCs in their Civics; then they could also apply decals that say, "Powered by Windows Powered."
Ah yes, English at its best.
< tofuhead >
It is still the dark of night.
On the H/PC, go to your desktop sometime, hold down Alt, and tap one of the icons. That's your ``right tap''. Anyway, the thrust of that point was originally that the reason I dislike CE is because they are trying to fit a desktop metaphor into a handheld or palm unit, and I don't think it makes sense. Tom Christiansen's recent article on interface zen explains it better than I can.
And I beg to differ that free != good. In the world of development tools, the freer they are, the better -- because you can count on more varied applications being available as well as lots of apps that will mimic the freeness of the development tools and will be able to be improved on by many people. CE seems to, probably because the devel tools are so expensive, encourage locking up of apps and code.
Anyway, I can see we're not going to reach an agreement on this one. :-)
Linux is already very well suited to this, then, for two reasons:
(1) The window manager is seperate from X _AND_ seperate from the kernel. This means that new cut-down versions of the WM and of X can fairly easily be tailor-made for embedded-type products. (Also can be replaced with relative ease...)
(2) The source for all the different bits are free, so _anyone_ can write a new Window Manager!!!! If we ever get a linux embedded system similar to the Palm Pilots, not only will people be able to download ne apps into it, but also new interfaces! Kewl!
-Shane Stephens
I thought they were scrapping Windows CE. Or is that, companies weren't using it as much.
Oh I see, Microsoft want a change of image!
GREAT EPISODE!
....;)
Alternative OS Names
Homer -- eats huge resources, lays around, and complains when forced to work
Marge -- constently cleans it's hard drive
Bart -- Does what ever it wants, and when It really screws up it say "sorry, man".
maggie -- just sits around and process's info allday.
Now if I can only think os something the 'LISA' could do
Did sellafield used to be called Windscale? :)
also have a look at this article by c't (german). use babelfish to translate it. it has some interesting thoughts why microsoft changed the name.
--
www.game-over.ch - Jesus rules!
Computers Everywhere.
Free as in "the Truth shall set you..."
well this salon story gives some explanation.n aming/index.html
http://www.salon.com/media/col/shal/1999/11/30/
i think it the story is almost frightening.
palop
--
More companies are going to look at Palm and wonder if they really need to feed a percentage of their sales profits to an already overweight MS.
the thing is so resource-hungry, you'll need access to mains power to run it for more than three minutes!
Wouldn't it just guarantee victory for our side if Symbian went open source? How come the hardware manufacturers don't realise this is in their interests? "The Magic Cauldron" makes it all fairly clear...
--
Xenu loves you!
Those are good, check these out:
WinCE instead of Palm? --> Fiend! A complaint we sew!
microsoft wins case? --> cosmic software sin
microsoft office development? --> development is of comic effort
Gates versus Linus? --> Evil ass, gurus sent.
=8^/
I thought they were scrapping Windows CE. Or is that, companies weren't using it as much.
Oh I see, Microsoft want a change of image!
You know, WinCE has been around for quite a while (never doing very well, but been out a while) and they never had a problem with the name.
:) And I hope to all of the rest of us thinking beings... You can change the name, but the truth will tell. Although the truth often has a difficult time against M/$ FUD...
;)
I may be dense, but it was only recently that I saw a post pointing out the "wince" moniker and had a good chuckle at something I hadn't recognized before. Has this reference been around a long time, or has it recently become more popular? Has the mainstream media never picked up on it before?
Perhaps we slashdotters/techies/geeks/truly intelligent beings have more power than we think. If our use of the term has the potential to bring it into use in the mainstream... could this be the reason for this change now? The desire to do some revisionist FUD and try to head off this allegedly derogatory reference at the pass?
Well, it will always be "wince" to me.
Of course it's still called "Boulder" Dam to me, not Hoover. And, damn it, I learned to spell Czechoslavakia in the 5th grade (could do it in my sleep the way the teacher drilled us), what am I going to do with that little piece of now useless knowledge?
Enough of changing the names of stuff.
Russ
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. - George Orwell or George Bush?
... but does it have the Power to Serve?
We all know how version numbers are inflated for marketing purposes. Using dates such as Windows 98 or October Gnome actually make sense though, being release dates not version numbers, which is a lot more comprehensable by the public.
However, it's not that simple anymore as product names are completely revamped as well. Windows NT is now called Windows 2000, the single-user variant will now be called Millennium instead. And now Windows CE is called Powered.
Looks like Redmond thinks that renaming a product throws away all the legacy and actually makes the product better. Unfortunately the marketing droids are actually able to sell that story to a lot of people too.
Microsoft has been fighting to get it's feet into the market of non-desktop computers. Looks as if they didn't succeed.
:)
I disagree. My impression of Microsoft's efforts in this arena is that they are reserving a slice of market/mindshare in the palmtop market so that they don't have to "get their feet in" when the company really decides to care.
Most of the recent Microsoft promotion has dealt with Windows2000, a system clearly designated for machines well out of the palmtop range. M$ is aware that the market may eventually pay more attention to palmhelds, but their most recent mantra change from "A computer on every desk in every home" to "Great products anywhere anytime" is more oriented towards providing "services" from Win2k servers to PC users. Microsoft apparently thinks palmtops will be used to access those services, but it does not envision the PC obsolescing any time soon. If and when the palmtop becomes a truly large market (on the scale of the personal computer) then M$ won't have to claw its way into a PalmOS-dominated market. It will at least have a name and presence to trade upon.
However, this does not diminish the possibility that a stripped-down Linux version might do something similar in the mean time. Otherwise we'll all be demonizing The Monopolist Palm in 10 years
-konstant
-konstant
Yes! We are all individuals! I'm not!
Hmm... betcha if all the registered posters put a message like the first one in their sigs, taco might listen... who's game? I'll be doing it as soon as I find my passwd... ~luge
"Under Microsoft's vision, Windows CE-based devices will simply be one more thin client for server computers based on Windows 2000,"
What... Microsoft, misleading? Are we talking about the same Microsoft?
Chris
San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
I always thought it stood for "chaotic evil"
Chinpoko-Windows.
I recently got a palm III, after comparing them to WinCE devices. I decided I wanted the extra battery life and a OS designed for a small platform, not a cut-down-yet-another API to support version of windows. So they rename WinCE, so people will still realize it's still the same ball game. The PDA game goes on. It's been said before, but spiliting windows into so many versions is *very* bad, you gotta admit, no matter what your views are on MS.
But one thing is sure, "Windows Powered" probably aren't gonna be better than the current WinCE crop. MS should just break down and liscence/use/enhance either PalmOS or EPOC32 or some other suitable PDA OS, imho. I don't think I'm the only one who sees no future in WinCE, thou IANASE (I Am Not A Software Engineer)
David
bash: ispell: command not found
This sig left intentionally blank.
Re-nameing WINCE won't help all that much. A properly written version would. (Yes, I KNOW a properly written piece of software is beyond the scope of Micro$oft but it's still true.)
Somewhat Off-Topic: The only thing that I had a problem with was that most manufacturers have, until recently, put WINCE into ROM giving us no other option. If it's flashable at least we'd have the choice to test it for ourselves and decide which we want to use.
Does anybody know if the ROM thing was a MS requirement early on?
Regardless of all that - unless the O/S has changed much they'll probably continue to lose out to Palm(tm) or Visor(tm) on sales. It's hoggish for resources and very proprietary - end of story.
I think it's the "If we can't dazzle them with brilliance..." routine.
"Bah!" - Dogbert
Errr...but it IS running a product called Windows. Sure it's some dodgy scaled down version, but it's still part of the Windows "family" and hence can be called Windows.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
I am not looking forward to this latest mutilation of my language... :P
Vovida, OS VoIP
Beer recipe: free! #Source
Cold pints: $2 #Product
Happy sticking!
Vovida, OS VoIP
Beer recipe: free! #Source
Cold pints: $2 #Product
The explorer shell is only one shell ...and designed for use in PalmPC and HandHeldPCs. I think it's fine - but not particularly great on Palm-sized PCs, but there's NOTHING to stop you replacing the shell with your own "more appropriate" shell.
Infact, I think CASIO ship a nice one with the E105.
I don't like the Palm default myself, and I usually install applauncher.
BTW WinCE devices can run the Palm Emulator fine too.
So soon even the Microsoft marketing machine will be describing its new apps as "Running under Powered"..?
They really do need to start running these names by people before announcing them.
--
Vovida, OS VoIP
Beer recipe: free! #Source
Cold pints: $2 #Product
I knew it wasn't exactly the most up-to-date code release out there, but something's there and it's certainly better than useless. Which some people seem not to recognise, unfortunately. That's what I was complaining about.
:) Slashdot tends to be rather less open minded than some people seem to think IME.
Interesting to see that I'm not the only one fed up with the moderators
Greg
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
Microsoft set the standard of PC's, like it or not. Through monopolistic practices or just through luck, microsoft has built the standard and developed them through Win32's.
And through the existing standards, YES. the WindowsCE devices are NOT proprietary, but an extension to the products that microsoft offers (albeit a bit smaller, but very much so an extension)
Even *WITH* a governing body, a standard is proprietary until you and i adpot it. and really, it isn't a standard until its adopted hehe..
But hell, i can even connect my CE to linux, and other unices, it uses a standard serial port to do so.. unlike the USB port on some other well known models :)
i'm not defending *anything* except that my lil windows ce based Cassio E-105 works beautifully, as advertised, and as sold. And so have the 2 other Handheld PC's with WindowsCE.
friend or foe of microsoft, thats not my issue. But the work being done, microsoft changing the marketing, repositioning the product shows that they work, and that they are sticking it out in the market. a far cry from whats commonly posted on here and other "news" sites.
doh!
There *are* other corporations, American and otherwise, that do far more morally reprehensible things than Microsoft.
I regret that this may come as a shock to some people here.
There may actually be other companies out there which are disliked more, and by more people.
Mea culpa, I guess. If I hadn't gone off-topic with my post about Microsoft programmers we wouldn't be fighting over just how evil Microsoft really is.
I'll back away from ethical issues here and focus
on what I consider my major (and least offtopic) point: Never underestimate the abilities of Microsoft's R&D people. They are, as individuals, a match for open source people.
The difference - the thing that makes open source people all dewy-eyed - is the great potential in writing the best software you possibly can without worrying about controlling a market or trying to fsck up as many competitors as you can.
The current beta of Win2k has a bootup screen that says "Contains Windows NT Technology".
I guess basic grammar isn't a requirement of M$ Marketroids (TM).
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Some of us who've been around Unix for a few years remember "Mince" as a commercial derivative of emacs, where "Mince" stood for "Mince is not complete emacs".
The difference between Microsoft and the chemical companies and rainforest loggers is that the chem. companies and loggers simply do their thing without giving much thought to the problems they cause, wheras Microsoft actively tries to cause problems.
Not really... Malda makes periodic releases, whenever he gets the chance to stabilize the code, and clean it up.
It's not like slash is a well-planned, formal project with a CVS server, and a design committee.
Though, I would hope that the andover.net purchase of slashdot would give him more time to clean up the codebase, along with adding features.
So...if this portable Windows is now "Windows Powered", does that imply that the desktop Windows is not powered? Perhaps a name change for the desktop version is in order: "Windows Broken" -johan
Has anyone played with one of these? I like the PDA+MP3 thing, but not sure about WinCE. But now that it will have Powered Windows, I might reconsider it *joke*.
Seriously, has anyone played with these or WinCE devices in general?
My intelligence insults itself.
Constructive criticism noted. :)
:)
I guess I cant spell Czechoslovakia in my sleep after all.
That will teach me to type and proofread before I am truly awake. Maybe my future posts should occur later in the day.
Russ
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. - George Orwell or George Bush?
This reminds me of when I bought a Psion. The sales 'bot tried to tell me it was "100% windows compatible" because it was bundled with the PsiWin connectivity package.
When I asked what memory capacity the various models had he said "They never run out of memory because you can put these little cards in them".
*bangs head on counter and walks out of shop*Hm...
How Appropriate
--------
"I already have all the latest software."
wee Windows prod
down, swore, wiped!
worse down, wiped!
wiped, drowns woe
we do per Windows
owed per Windows
we respond "widow"
redwood WINpews
endows Word wipe
weep, disown Word
And this interesting pair:
we window dopers
pro windows weed
Get yours at http://www.anagramfun.com/cgi-bin/anagrams.cgi
And remember - Microsoft is the master of marketing, so take a clue from them: if your product doesn't sell, change it's name!
--
It's October 6th. Where's W2K? Over the horizon again, eh?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
OK, so now instead of "WinCE" it'll be "Windows Under-Powered".
If Windows did release their own distribution of Linux, do you think they'd call it 'Open Windows'?
And more importantly, is Windows in France called French Windows???
;-)
Consumer Electronics
I called it Crippled Edition. Some even got the joke.
Figure this. My Cassiopeia E-105 has 32 megs of ram, i have a compact flash IBM MicroDrive with over 340 megs of storage.
I get all of the following features
Music MP3 or WMF
PIM Software
Not only music, stereo sound
65K colors, active matrix screem
Small, sturdy device
WindowsCE lets me code easily for network applications, it lets me surf the web, port over existing applications, and follows the same legacy as the Desktop OS.
Windows CE makes a powerfull embedded OS. Infact it may do too much for being embedded, but it works.
I've long since ditched all my other PDA's and handhelds and enjoy my handheld pc.
Plus, i've got GCC compiling WindowsCE binaries for mips processors now, and will be releasing a Cygwin based version for people to download, and i will help support open source applications under WindowsCE because WindowsCE gets the job done, and rather well.
Well, during launch of Windows NT there was rumors that it stands for next version of VMS: V->W M->N S->T
the should call it to linus so all the dumb linus long hairs will by it and be fooled and then say why is this so much beter than linus? linus sux!
I'm just pointing out that the cries of "resign!" are really rather glib. Very easy to say "I wouldn't take the money" when it's not actually being offered to you. Very easy to take the high moral ground when it's not actually you on the spot.
I've quit my job because I didn't believe in the company I was working for anymore (I even took a paycut to do it), and yes, I felt better too. But at the same time, I'm honest enough to admit that if someone had offered me a couple million dollars to stay then I would have done.
Does that mean I'd do anything for money? Of course not! Does it make me human? Yup.
I essentially agree with you on your points about why Wince has problems -- forcing inappropriate metaphors and techniques onto the UI for handheld device.
;-)
It is worth pointing out that Unix learned this long ago. The GUI in Unix is not bound up in the OS itself, like it is on Windows. Even if you run X, the "look and feel" can be changed at will. This is one of Unix's greatest strengths.
Linux does an even better job. One of the reasons Linux scales so well between platforms is that you have the complete source. Thus, if you are targeting an embedded system, you can reconfigure the kernel to exclude inappropriate and unneeded parts, and recompile.
I am not sure if the X protocol would be appropriate for a handheld device. On the one hand, X tends to have a lot of overhead, enough to swamp a device like the Palm Pilot. On the other hand, hardware keeps improving all the time, and having a single protocol for the low-level graphics interface has some nice advantages. I've used a prototype of Compaq's Itsy, and it runs X on a credit card sized screen with no apparent performance problem. And the ability to run a program on a big machine, but have it display on a handheld with a wireless connection, would be very cool. I think only time will tell how this will turn out.
Of course, if you went the X route on a handheld, the UI toolkits used by most of the software for the handheld would have to be different, or you run into the same problems as Wince. But building on the foundation of X would still have advantages, and you could run a "desktop UI style" program in a pinch if you had do.
Anyone else here remember PC/GEOS from GeoWorks? It was a GUI for MS-DOS that enabled multitasking, long file names, and more cool stuff, all on an 8086 CPU. There was also a version of it for PDA's (Tandy's now-defunct Zoomer being the most popular one to use it, IIRC). One of the really neat things about GEOS was the fact that the GUI functions were abstracted before being presented to the applications. Thus, you could take a program from the desktop version, put in on the handheld, and its UI would change to a pen-based metaphor automatically. Very cool.
Just my 1/4 of a byte.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
You don't get it. Whatever MSFT chooses to name it -- "WinCE" or "Windows Powered" -- it does not change the fact that it is proprietary. I.e., they own Win32 which is proprietary software; the product depends on Win32; thus the product is proprietary. MSFT wears the pants. Understand, now?
It's just software. Ultimately, even if every computer in the world spontaneously combusted tomorrow, we'd still find a way to survive. However, if the environment gets screwed up too badly then it may not be possible at all.
/. mentality that loading anthrax into Scud missiles (or whatever - it's just an example) is a more acceptable occupation than working for Bill.
You seem to believe that rainforest logging or chemical dumping is some localised problem that only effects this group of people, or that patch of ecology. The truth is that these problems can affect everyone in the world, including the vast majority of people who have never even seen a computer, let alone been forced to use Office. What's worse is that the effects may be impossible to reverse, however much economic effort is expended.
Furthermore, my original point was just to provide an example of something that was morally worse than working for MS. I'd reckoned without the rabid
>TUXedo Kamen, surely? :-)
I'm now going to have nightmares of Tux with that funny mask throwing roses all thanks to you. Or maybe he should be throwing CD-ROMs (a lot more damage capacity with those puppies than a rose)
There must be some old meaning to CE!
A lot of people have been saying it means "Compact Edition", but I always heard "Consumer Electronics". And if you think about it, Microsoft would never call it "Compact Edition", because that would admit that "regular" Windows is not compact.
There are also the jokes:
- Crashes Easy
- Crashed Everything
- Caveat Emptor
- Chaotic Evil
- Cannot Execute
- Complete Excrement
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Maybe they are looking to produce a single chip solution, embeding the ROM with the CPU??
Look on the left sidebar on basically any slashdot page:
directly under "faq", you'll see "code", which is a page about the "slash" engine, source code, and the licensing.
Apologies to the many people who already knew this; I'm just letting someone else in on the deal.
Gotta crash 'em all!
You, my friend, have a point. And my support.
Linux and opensource go hand in hand? Why isn't Slashdot practicing what it preaches?
--
rJames.org - illustration
We can go from WinCE to WinP. Either way you accurately describe your computing experience. Works for me.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Ahh, the wonder of configurability in Linux! As I've said couple of times already, I believe that to do something well, you've got to have that thing as your focus. In this context, it means that for an OS to integrate well in a palmtop, it has to be configured, designed, for palmtops.
Now the beauty of Linux is that it's not inseparably bound to a particular GUI, like Windows is. The Linux kernel can be adapted more easily than Windows can to the palmtop platform, IMHO. But of course, only the kernel and a few basic system apps should be the same as a PC Linux configuration... an X server, or KDE, etc., may not fit very well in this scenario, and attempting to shoe-horn things is always a sign that something is not quite right with your configuration. What we really want is a UI that is specifically directed at palmtops. Anything less than that would simply not fit.
mikre he sophia he tou Mikrosophou.
And it's common practise for businesses and politicians to register a trademarked name across as many domains as they can. So are you whining like a 2 year old because you wanted slashdot.org or because you want Rob to pay you for slashdot.com?
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Customer: "My palmtop won't turn on"
Help-Desk: "It's run out of batteries"
Customer: "No, it doesn't use batteries, it's Windows Powered"
I think you're right. One of the major problems of WinCE is its GUI: it looks crap on grayscale displays and color displays are expensive and power-consuming. And we shouldn't make the same mistakes.
But I think we don't have to worry about this: Linux features dozens of different GUIs (Window managers, KDE, Gnome). Many of them are themeable. Whilst all of this (well, especially the themeability) didn't have any technical advantages up to now (it just gave users the possibility to make their desktop look neat), it will have in the future: There will be a dedicated WM (possibly developed from the codebase of some existing WM) with a small footprint for Palmsize computers with special themes for lo-res b&w displays, hi-res grayscale displays, hi-res color displays and so on. (And, like it or not, one day there will also be Palms running KDE or Gnome with a special Palmtheme).
We'll show them how much more flexible Linux is!
"We won't use guns, we won't use bombs, we'll use the one thing we've got more of and that's our minds" - Pulp
Easy to say if you're not stock-optioned to the hilt. A couple of million dollars worth of stock options, especially if you have dependents, is quite something to just throw away. It's not even as though MS is the most evil corporation on the planet - plenty of chemical companies, or rainforest loggers that are IMHO far worse (and they all have IT departments).
But "Windows Powered" needs some re-arranging.
Powered
Windows
There, that's better. Windows under powered.
Or maybe...
Windows
Bloated Hyped
Windows overbloated and overhyped.
Of course you'll never see Window where horses
are kept.. it's just not a stable product.
- the idiot
Oh Please.
It's not based on Win31. It's based on NT.
It's a preemptive, multithreaded multasking OS with a microkernel.
It has capabilities that PlamOS couldn't hope to reach any time soon.
A pile of shit by any other name ... is still a pile of shit.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Off-topic, but I can't stand the suspense anymore! (AAARGH!) Not being a programmer, I am clueless as to the construct "Micros~1" which I see used all the time. How do you derive "Microsoft" from "Micros~1"? I mean, I am guessing that it is a brilliant piece of coder poetics, but I can't figure it out. Can anyone help me here?
The one in Canada that let improperly stored agent orange to leak into the water supply. The gold processors that use murcury and then dump it into the Amazon. The wide use of DDT (out side the 1st world) The dumping of garbage into the oceans (like New York, The English don't apreciate the garbage that is collecting on thier south shores) The maga smoke-stack in Sudbury, Ont. Canada. The drag-netting of the ocean. The rushing of drugs like phalitamide(sp?) ....
Your right these only effect a limited number of people (the population of the earth) or only ruin parts of the ecology (the living parts) but other than that they are of negligable effect when compaired to an annoying consumer product.
Why does this lame post even deserve a "1"?
Maybe NT is for True Neutral, only with the letters reversed because they messed up the big-endian with small endian, or similar.
"In a world without walls, who needs Windows" - Someone from LinuxToday
make world, not war
It's like those morons who buy a Honda Civic HF, and slap V-Tec stickers all over them.
I wish I had a nickel for every time someone said "Information wants to be free".
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Yes, we do have a sensible law, but unfortunately we also have several tens of thousands of braindead ones.
There was a good reason for this.
Compaq wanted to seperate Unix's identity from the company. Ie they wanted to give Digital Unix an independent identity.
The rational is most likely composed of:
1) Getting rid of the Digital identity. Compaq's stated goal was to absorb Digital into itself. The Digital brand was to dissapear. (and it has).
2) They might have been thinking of selling, cross-licensing or spinning off Digital Unix when they first took over DEC. The new name would have had to be compatible with these goals.
so there... there was a reason for it.
-anon.
DEC is still alive... DEC is still alive
DEC -> CPQ
This is a misconception that is unfair to the individuals who work as programmers at Microsoft. It also may cause many free software advocates to underestimate Microsoft's programming abilities. Microsoft has some excellent programmers - even the WinCE team must have some first rate people. The problem is that these folks are often forced to do hideous things to the code for the wrong reasons - for marketing purposes, to subvert desirable standards, to present a moving target to prevent cloning, for backward compatibility with decade old hardware and software... If Microsoft programmers were allowed to write the best software they could - period - without worrying about screwing the competition or subverting existing standards, they would have some of the best apps and OSes in the world. But they don't, because Marketing and Management have fsck'ed up their programmers with many often conflicting requirements. This isn't just a programmer dilemma, btw. Those of you following the trial will probably notice how often, and how badly, Microsoft's execs lied during the trial. They repeatedly shot themselves in the collective foot (partially)by trying to cover too many bases. Dislike Microsoft as a corporation if you wish - I certainly do - dislike specific Microsoft executives if you wish, but don't slag Microsoft programmers as a group. They're no less competent and no more evil than any other group of programmers.
Microsoft Powered : Operating Systems :: Cheese Food : Sustenance
.
> How the hell do you get wimped from WinPed? Very simply. Any linguist (like me) can explain to you the process of assimilation where to sounds pronounced in different parts of the mouth (like n and p) end up pronounced CLOSER (both "m" and "p" are bilabial sounds...) to each other, if not in the same place... :-)))
.sig ? what freakin
Boy, the number of totally clueless and blind readers never fails to amaze me. First you have this non-sensicle posting about freeing the source (even though the source code for /. has always been available, look at the number of /. powered sites out there), then you get a few other idiots who don't even bother to read a previous reply which specifically states that the source is available and even where to find it.
/. is available at:
/. if you use their code.
I don't even know why the original posting was moderated up. Seems like a moderator was also clueless (which makes sence, considering that the moderators are also the same clueless idiots who read and post these totally stupid comments)
Before I get flamed for this, the source code for
http://slashdot.org/code.shtml
Their only requirement is that you link back to
-- Error: Cannot find file REALITY.SYS - Universe halted, please reboot!
.... "Microsoft Works"
-- JackCat
If you have a look on the left (as someone mentioned earlier in the thread...) there's a code link. It's available.
The truly annoying thing is that we have a company which was sold for a sizeable amount of money to a company's that's about to be listed on the stock market where your primary obligation is to make the most money possible for your shareholders. And what's the domain name? slashdot.org, in the non-profit domain.
If I were Rob I'd have done my level best to sort out a commercial domain some time ago. I were in charge of domain registrations I'd be spitting blood over an obvious abuse of domain names.
Greg
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
There are huge changes in store for Microsoft's beleaguered Windows CE operating system, starting with its name.
As a long suffering Macinstosh user, I remember when the company run by Gil Amelio was officially christened "Beleaguered Apple Computer Corp." by the press. I find it quite a turn around that a M$ product has now taken on that moniker, while Steve Jobs' company now goes by "Resurgent Apple Computer."
-jimbo
ps I think I've seen the beleagured tag attached to Compaq somewhere as well.
"Hold me Bob!" "I would if I could man!" -Larry and Bob in VeggieTales
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Not being a native English speaker, I have a doubt: aren't all these "Windows", "Money", "Explorer", "Exchange", "Word", "Office" and even "Power Point" nouns? Isn't "Windows Powered" an adjetive phrase? Does it make sense to use "Windows Powered" as a noun?
Only problem: they are the trademark owner themselves, so who's gonna sue them?
Say no to software patents.
Anonymous Kev
I recall visiting the "Hut" with an old engineer that had me in "Jedi training". He was really interested in the new 2 Meter HT (Handi-Talkie). He inquired about battery life and the sales guys said " This battery will last all day". Wayne looked down at him,( Wayne was about 6' 2" and 280lbs, big white beard, kinda like a very very grouchy Santa) and said, "You don't know what the fsck you're talking about, do you?" The sales guy blinked and said "Ummm, well not really..."
We left and I laughed all the way back to the office.
Get a life, not a lifestyle. - Hikem Bey
Windows CE is not proprietary
based on Win32s libraries
Using common Windows objects
uses compact flash standards
Uses existing MIPS, Arm and X86 Cpu's
Uses existing compilers (i'm using gcc)
has a common gui
On the other hand, what other PDA uses any features that *are not* proprietary
Springboard?, Sony memory stick? api? processor portability?
BTW: I can and do run linux on these Casio's i'm speaking of. I may even give freeBSD a try :) 86.05 bogomips for a PalmPC sure is nice!
Roblimo's summary is a bit inaccurate. Microsoft is not renaming the Windows CE OS. Rather, the handheld devices that are running Windows CE will be stamped and referred to as "Windows Powered devices" rather than "Windows CE devices." They'll still be running the operating system known as Windows CE.
Wince was appropriate, it made sense. Every time somebody asked me to configure a Wince based palmtop for a PC, I winced at the thought that a power user would need help. Then I winced at the difficulty of doing it myself.
Now It's "Windows Powered" which can be abbreviated WinPed, [pronounced wimped], for what people do when faced with the new levels of difficulty in using this thing. A few clients have already winped out and gone back to Palm.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
This name seems too blatantly misleading to me. The implication of a logo that says "Windows Powered" is that the thing that the logo is on is running a product named Windows (or contains a "windows chip"). It's a bit like naming an electric car "V8 powered". Believe it or not (given what some companies get away with), there are some rules against this sort of thing.
"When you buy a device, you buy a complete thing--it's not like a PC where you can upgrade the thing whenever you want to," said Phil Holden, product manager for Microsoft's Windows CE group, in explaining the change. "When we're talking to the broader consumer, it's pretty clear that customers care what the device does, but not so much what the underlying operating system is."
I think the consumer cares about a device that works without crashing, that runs quick, and doesn't drain power so you don't have to drag several sets of batteries around with you.
This name change will generate hordes of clueless users that will come back to vendors asking "It says its Windows powered - How can I install Microsoft Office 97 on it?"
Microsoft should concentrate on getting it to work right, and getting it so that its compatible with Windows. If thier programmers were as good as thier marketing people, I don't think anyone would be complaining so much about Microsoft.
...NT used to stand for "New Technology"...
:-)
doesn't NT stand for Neanderthaler Technology
---
I don't believe I've seen anyone point this out yet... I recall WinCE being termed "Windows, Consumer Edition" when it was first released. Now, M$ is coming along with Windows 2000, and eventually a product called Windows 2000 Consumer, meant for the Win9x user (as opposed to Windows 2000 Professional for the WinNT user). Seems to me that M$ is simply cleaning out the namespace so that they can use Windows 2000 Consumer as a product name and not get it confused too much with WinCE in their marketing department.
I can see the advocacy flames already..
>>> QNX-Powered rulez..
>> You don't know what you're fscking talking about
>> everyone *knows* MacOSX Powered kicks all the
> Get real, lamer! Windows Powered is much more swoonful
Scheesh!
Mike
-- "So, what's the deal with Auntie Gerschwitz et all?"
Argh.... Has that evil childrens obsession invaded every part of our life? whats next? Sailor Linux?
Hrm loving these
A number and the ~ get added to "help" you tell files apart which would have otherwise had the same name.. for example microsoftfoo.exe and microsoftbar.exe will be renamed to micros~1.exe and micros~2.exe
under this naming convention, the name microsoft gets changed to micros~1
Your wallet stays open. Our source remains closed. We are MSFT
M$ wanted a new name is because WinCE was becoming known in the general population. I think they thought no one could bastardize Windows Powered something demeaning.
How about WiPed? You coul pronounce it either "wiped" like "I wiped my ass with it", or "whipped" as in "That OS is really p-whipped".
It doesn't matter how good or bad the software is, they have an excellent marketing department!
M$ wanted a new name is because WinCE was becoming known in the general population. Maybe they thought no one could bastardize Windows Powered something demeaning.
How about WiPed? You could pronounce it either "wiped" like "I wiped my ass with it", or "whipped" as in "That OS is really p-whipped".
I can buy a package to let me cross compile win32s apps under linux, solaris, hpux and such. You can buy the source.
There is a difference between proprietary and free. Say you have the Specs to MP3, thats the same information you have from Windows. You have the Specs to the API, But you have to lease the decoder from franhaufer or however it is spelled or write your own. Just like microsoft, you would have to lease the rights to the api or write your won.
But the specs are out, you can buy a 3 book series that describes them all in detail.
Microsoft may A) Own it B) Wrote it C) Use it, but it is the standard and therefore A) not proprietary B) Fully Documented C) Portable (ahem.. powerPC, Mips, X86, Arm).
Windows Crippled?
Windows Wasted?
Windows Brain-Damaged?
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
My mouse must be Windows Powered.
Originally it was Compact Edition. When they realized that was too much of a stretch they changed to either Consumer Edition, or Consumer Electronics. I think I even saw yet another variation recently.
Herring 2000
"We rename our failures."
Dog is my co-pilot.
Someone should print up stickers with whatever logo they used to denote "Windows Powered". Then we can stick them on all manner of underpowered and broken devices.
Quite appropriate...
Say no to software patents.
The great thing about my libretto is that my university library is wired with ethernet jacks all over the place.
I can just bring my libretto in, plug it in, fire it up, and have high speed internet access (higher speed at night).
Sure beats waiting all night for a download on my modem at home, I just need to get a bigger hard drive so I can use it as an MP3 jukebox.
If M$ programmers are forced to do hideous things, then they should resign. I don't know of any programmer who respects is work that will stay with an employer who does not. M$ programmers are as guilty as any M$ marketing guy or corporate guy. I don't care how much $$$ they get paid for the job, they should quit.
Regards
Batteries not encluded
The new pejorative.
It'll catch on before "Windows Powered" ever does.
In honour of Windows' most famous feature, they should call it...
Or ``Bilge'', after MS's founder BillG.
And the devices that run it will have a sticker that says,
Windows Powered Powered
--
It's October 6th. Where's W2K? Over the horizon again, eh?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
On the off chance that the latter is the case, here's a Free Clue: a bloated, unstable, power-sucking operating system with a new name is still... a bloated, unstable, power-sucking operating system. Imagine that!
WinCE has managed one thing well: it has emphasized perhaps more clearly than any of Microsoft's other products just how bad their stuff really is.
Micro$oft's shoddy workmanship and marketing over-hype are finally coming home to roost. The word "Windows" has long been a joke to those in IT "in the know." (Which, by definition, does not generally include PHBs.) It's now rapidly becoming a joke even to those outside of the IT community. PHBs are next :-).
About damn time.
Now thats some sucky software.
We have MS Works 4.0 on about 900 computers here...and it sucks. Well it sucks less on iMacs because iMacs don't seem to have the OLE crashing problem that older Macs do. But hey...we have a billion Works files so we can't migrate to anything newer.
I love MS.
BTW
Wouldn't Windows Unpluged be a better name for Wince than Windows Powered?
And I thought Athlon and Itanium were corney...
--
unfortunately, they've no obligation to do so. i, for one, would be interested to see a more advanced slashdot (rather than pre-0.3, i reckon we're past that stage by now), not to rip off the code, but to see how they do certain things.
And the point is?? Buzzword bingo again, sad thing is it actually works. People fall for the nice shine the M$ marketing merkins put on things. You can spray paint rust, and it may look like new, but it's stil rust, and it will still crumble eventually.
Surely this is wrong? There must be some old meaning to CE!
I mean, NT used to stand for "New Technology", although Micros~1 newspeak nowadays denies that. I can't believe they use a name that do not have any connotation.
Lars
--
Reality or nothing.
"Windows powered"... Heh.
Sounds a lot like "military intelligence" or "government service," doesn't it?
One day, I will have Emacs on my palmtop, then I will be happy (and TeX and a dvi viewer)... Well, okay, and Angband.
Bander
What we need more of is science!
The commercial version of redhat 6.1 I purchased came with 3 stickers, two small - one bumper sticker sized that say: "Powered by Redhat" Have the P.R. people started stealing slogans off of their competitors bumpers?
Another interesting thing I read once was that in a meeting, the Windows CE team was presenting a marketing plan to Bill, and they were saying how they needed to raise the price to make any money on it. Bill told them they were all wrong, because the point isn't to make a profit now, it's to gain marketshare. He reminded them how they used to sell MS-DOS for like $10 and didn't worry about profit, because the goal was to maximize marketshare. Then once in position, they could raise prices and make obscene profits. We all know that's the strategy, I'm just glad they're not so successful this time.
Chemical companies inflict their pollution on a limited number of people, rainforest loggers ruin some ecology, but Microsofts products are inflicted upon, and causes daily loss of productivity and personal stress, stress related agression and the diseases associated with that such as ulcers, bloodpressure problems, heart problems, etc upon hundreds of millions of people. Every day. Name another company that gets away with that without having warning labels on their products? Add to that that you may be forced by companies to use those products in your job. I dont see how you can get more evil than that.
You obviously do not know what proprietary means. From Webster's:
proprietary: something that is used, produced, or marketed under exclusive
legal right of the inventor or maker
Now, how can you claim WinCE is not proprietary? Are you going to pull a
Microsoft and somehow squirm out of this by redefining things?
I have wasted enough time on you.
You forget that Microsoft must be free to innovate. So if they want it to sound like their gadgets get their power, ie. charge or energy-source, from Windows, they must be free to reinvent the english language for the benefit of the unenlightened consumer.
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
this reminds me of the simpsons episode where homer changes his name to max power. amusing stuff...
Woo! Another Veggie fan on /.!!!
CT
Constitutionally Correct
Third, I think that MS misjudged (thus far) what the palm market wants.
One thing to understand about Microsoft is that every product they put out will be either oriented towards one of their big revenue streams or it'll be dropped. This means that if a product can't be hardwired into Windows or MS Office, Microsoft sees little value in it. I don't think they are necessary worried about dominating every single market, but they are worried about markets or potential markets that can cut into their revenue streams.
In the case of WinCE palmtops, I don't think to set out to dominate the palm/embedded market but instead mistakenly designed the palm devices to be value-add extentions to Microsoft Office, and the settop boxes to be extensions of MSN. They ignored the new markets and looked to Wince as an extention to the markets they were already in.
They made their marketing play to the IT Manager types that were supposedly going to support palm devices as integrated computing equipment. This hasn't happened yet, and if it has the IT geeks are probabbly more familiar with Pilots anyway. But, if someday Palm devices are standard corporate supported equipment, the supposed Windows/Office 'integration' will give Microsoft a much stronger sell.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Poke-Windows? You can just imagine if they sorted out the licencing, an office assistant pack of pokemon characters would probably sell like hot cakes. And wouldn't Pikachu be an improvement over that EVIL EVIL paperclip? Er....
(surely the cat from Team Rocket would be more apt...)
Anyway, surely the main reason they're changing the name from Windows CE is they're sick and tired of the "wince" jokes...
Oberon S3 is an OS as well as a language. The basic system fits on a 1.44 disk and includes a compiler, hardware drivers, and a lot more. A few more megs of space gets you a full GUI with development tools. This runs on bare Intel hardware. I'm sure it could be ported to a handheld pretty easily. If you want to try it, search for "Native Oberon". sr
Surely when people wake up to how poor an operating system Windows is, many things will be powered by the electricity generated from burning copies - it would definately make running a Star 910 more economical :)
I think that was it.
Microsoft has been fighting to get it's feet into the market of non-desktop computers. Looks as if they didn't succeed.
Linux can and must learn from this.
Same OS for different classes of devices is good for the company, but not necessarily for the customer. A software company can reduce maintenance costs by reducing the number of code bases. However, having the same look and feel for a Desktop PC and a set-top box or a wristwatch is, in my opinion, not desirable.
A UI that was designed for choosing among 20 or more applications, switching back and forth between them, adding and configuring hardware and do extensive networking and interoperability is not the ideal UI for, say, a handheld device that features three applications, syncs automatically when in the cradle and must be usable by everyone who learned how to read a clock.
Why is the Palm OS more successful in the palmtop arena? Because it is not an adapted desktop PC OS, but a genuine handheld device OS. (Imagine it on a desktop PC with a mouse - wouldn't work!) I hope that Linux won't make the same mistake. I'd love to see Linux on a lot of sub-PC class devices, but please don't expect it to feature a full-blown X server or even KDE or whatever. Make it a small, efficient, stable and secure Linux subset with a dedicated user interface. Let Microsoft go astray on its own.
Yes, you are right there. -- Another glass of champagne?