Gee, you have some free time to respond point-to-point to my quote-to-quote answers!:p
Ok, the field is Computational Neuroscience and most toolkits you will find for simulations are in C++ and Python.
By any means, C++ and Java are object-oriented languages even if they are not the best or most pristine OO languages out there. (I read your post about Java not OO below). C is ok, but I don't like it because it doesn't support at all OO. Maybe Objective-C if you want to learn proprietary Apple languages.
Anywho, I think C++ is a powerful language that you can do almost anything with it: from writing device drivers and embedded programs to high-level software developing using GUIs (with Qt) or HTML/CSS/JavaScript (with Wt), among other libraries and frameworks. In fact, I don't have to choose between Power and Support because C++ has them both.:)
It is true that it is a difficult language to learn (and even more to master!) but most of its concepts and perks have found one way or another to other languages it has influenced after C++ was invented. And there are many: even Google's last-year Go! I will not try to convince you anymore, you are entitled to have your opinion about C. For me C is the "grandpa" of it all, but I wouldn't want to use it for a new project rich with GUIs and Internet stuff. C should be praised for its syntax.
This thread is about self-taught programmers and their gaps. Well, by learning C++ (with Stroustrup's book at least) your programming gaps will be minimized to the few mainstream paradigms C++ is not covering directly and, of course, all those theoretical notions (maths, algorithms, etc) a CS course offers.
C++ is a great intellectual investment to any software developer, amateur or professional s/he is. From there, anything else is downhill.
C++ is multiparadigm, powerful, alive and kicking (waiting for the new standard actually), and had a new textbook for beginners from its original implementer. It also has many libraries that emulate programming paradigms not directly supported by C++ such as logical or functional, among many many other.
Except Lisp. And purely-functional languages, like Haskell. And interesting things like Erlang -- immutable, non-shared memory plus message-passing. And...
Hey, give me a break. I used the word most for a reason. Of course you can find exceptions. No language is perfect, but some are simply more powerful and supported than others. D is probably better than C++, but I wouldn't invest on learning it.
Learn one language well, and other languages will be easier to pick up, yes. But calling C++ "multiparadigm" is like calling Java "Object-Oriented".
I call Java object-oriented without problem.:)
It makes you sound smart, and it even makes sense when you know a little about the subject. Then you learn what the term actually means, and you see a language which actually does that successfully -- Ruby is object-oriented in a way Java can only dream of.
Whatever. The thing is Java is being taught as a first-language to academic departments for a reason, because it's easy and object-oriented. Ruby not so often. I chose C++ for technical reasons and specifications, not because I was searching a hobbyist language to learn programming. In my field C++ and Python are the tools.
If I had to learn a language simply for hobby I would probably pick something high-level such as Scala.
I'm learning C++ using Stroustrups's 2009 "Programming -- Principles and Practice Using C++" textbook. This book is huge, but well-written for both first-semester college students and self-taught programmers.
I opted for C++ instead of C because I wanted a multiparadigm language to help me learn different approaches to coding. The procedural paradigm is strong and useful to learn how computers work in low level, but I C++ provides with other useful paradigms as well which might come handy when you jump to another language. Afterall, learn C++ at an adequate level and then most other computer languages should be easy to comprehend.
Nevertheless, programming is expressing some ideas in code. To get these ideas and put them down in useful algorithms is another story. Perhaps in a formal Computer Science or Software Engineering course they learn about how to design the algorithms by practicing elegant abstraction techniques.
The N900 has it own limitations the biggest being having to use AT&T or T-Mobile and large upfront cost.
Not in Europe. Actually, this side of the Atlantic the 3GS 32GB costs some €700 and the N900 about €600. Unsubsidized by telcos of course. I prefer to pay up front and then choose my own network according to my voice/data needs. When my contract is done they give me a huge bonus (according to my plan) to buy the phone I want.
Comparison of different generation electronic products is outright silly. You could reach the exact opposite conclusions by comparing the first-generation iPhone (pre-App Store) and the N900.
Just wait and see. Nokia and Intel together are too big to fail...
If you happen to read the BLS 2010-2011 Occupational Outlook Handbook for programmers, you'll see they are making a great distinction between simple programmers and software engineers. In fact, the good outlook is only for the software engineers (+32% until 2018) leaving the programmers at -3%. Please read the report where they give the explanation for the difference between these two kinds of developers, which might be technical, but really important to understand the powers of the market.
Programmers, unfortunately, can be easily outsourced, leaving much competition and perhaps lower salaries. Really well-prepared software engineers, on the other hand, will almost always thrive because they need to be physically near the places of R&D and new paradigms, talking face-to-face with customers, and experience the IT evolution first-hand. You can't always do that from Bangalore.
Similar definitions and hints you can find at the German BERUFENET about Computer Scientists and their various branches. Simple coders (programmers) are always the peons.
...some other portable light weight material (gold is far to heavy)...
What about Saffron?...long the world's most expensive spice by weight......Saffron prices at wholesale and retail rates range from US$500 to US$5,000 per pound (US$1,100–11,000/kg)...
Damn, with one kilo of good quality saffron you can really have some nice vacation, without being stopped at any borders for illegal activity!:p
This is actually a good thing. Having that stupid deadline of 31 December 2009 was actually pushing the ISO teams to work by tossing many features or issues that otherwise might have gotten in. When the new C++ is out, it better be complete and stable for the next 10 years. What matters is this: have a complete standard so compiler producers won't need to add that many custom features.
Also, now that they're on Xbox Live, I encourage you to go back and play the Monkey Island games that seemed so funny when you were 12. They aren't.
Heh, I was recently looking at some YouTube walkthrough videos of MI and indeed what made me laugh back then isn't anymore... Nevertheless, for their day they were hilarious and pretty good entertainment for lots of teenagers.
That, and sexy little things and cool things ALWAYS properly come in BLACK. Seriously, who has ever heard of the "sexy little WHITE dress", or "Back in WHITE" or "Always bet on WHITE"?
Is it a coincidence that we're talking about a European conglomerate? Would they dare to propose something similar if Cisco was found to be selling such stuff?
I can sell you mustard ingredients to use it on your sausages. You shouldn't blame me if you gas your kids with it though....
New Zealand is probably the best. Superb countryside, fantastic people, open uncomplexed society. I'm moving there anytime they offered me the opportunity!
...but my iPod touch is about the best damned PDA I've ever used. There are apps for everything I need, and much unlike most cell phone browsers of old (including the one on the Blackberry Curve that I have for work), the included version of Safari actually works for almost any site I want to visit. I might have to zoom in/out to see some things, but I can use the page at least.
If this is what you want guys then the killer device is just around the corner. It's built on the Nokia Maemo and the applications will be built/ported with the easyness of Qt. If the screen is sexy enough (decent resolution, AMOLED, etc) while not too bulk it will kiss all PDAs and Internet tablets goodbye...
WebKit is also used by Symbian which has more clients than iPhone, Android, and Pre put together. Funny though, nobody in the States ever remembers that...
I prefer to find convenience ON my device, not on the market that sells it. Convenience is important. So are looks. And both Symbian (Ovi Store) and Google (Android Market) are getting there.
But my initial point, which you have missed completely since you repeat to me ad nauseam that "I don't get Apple's strategy" is that it will be too late if one day Apple becomes Microsoft for the phone OSes. We live in magnificent times in the mobile world. The two biggest platform producers deliver open source operating systems. We (both customers and developers) need to monetize on this momentum!
That was my initial suggestion (aka "flaimbait" by the Cupertino fanboyz that modded down an innocuous observation). I'm not trying to convince you, david, you already admitted you have an iPhone. I don't have an Android.:)
The problem is... developers sometimes are not informed well, mesmerized by the media attention Apple gets and fanboyz deliver. It's paradigmatic that in this very thread, a guy (in a parent comment) was asking where in the world Symbian/Android have 60% market coverage. Go figure!
Rest assured that both Symbian and Android give multiple tools and easy ways to design and deploy a mobile application. The only real winner (not anymore) has been the iPhone Store, which is a 100% marketing and convenience tool. Nothing more.
Concluding, my hopes go to those curious developers who really want to push their creativity to the limits while delivering the best available app to the customer. This can only happen if they get informed.
No informed person will ever decide to build an app to the worst platform possible.
And vice versa on the vice versa. The difference of Symbian/Android is that it's open source and developers can actually shape the future of their platform or fork it to their needs. Try that with the iPhone.
The platform is bull by itself. It's the developers and the customers when they are not blinded simply by "fashion". If the developers decide to target another lucrative market (as the one we will see when the Nokia N97 will be finally launched... btw, watch for the upcoming Slashdot story!) you will see similar platforms take off. Android Store and Ovi Store have much more potential because of the tools and underlying tech they can provide to the developers.
I only hope they can provide some fine credit mechanism to sweeten the deal with the developers. That's what got the developing frenzy for iPhone afterall!
As for the iTunes market. You know there ARE alternative shops that help the entire market as well. Perhaps you simply don't know them. Be my guest!
Slashdot Mirror
What is "generic" Linux? Isn't OpenSUSE generic enough?!
Not enough mana to cast the spell... :p
Gee, you have some free time to respond point-to-point to my quote-to-quote answers! :p
Ok, the field is Computational Neuroscience and most toolkits you will find for simulations are in C++ and Python.
By any means, C++ and Java are object-oriented languages even if they are not the best or most pristine OO languages out there. (I read your post about Java not OO below). C is ok, but I don't like it because it doesn't support at all OO. Maybe Objective-C if you want to learn proprietary Apple languages.
Anywho, I think C++ is a powerful language that you can do almost anything with it: from writing device drivers and embedded programs to high-level software developing using GUIs (with Qt) or HTML/CSS/JavaScript (with Wt), among other libraries and frameworks. In fact, I don't have to choose between Power and Support because C++ has them both. :)
It is true that it is a difficult language to learn (and even more to master!) but most of its concepts and perks have found one way or another to other languages it has influenced after C++ was invented. And there are many: even Google's last-year Go! I will not try to convince you anymore, you are entitled to have your opinion about C. For me C is the "grandpa" of it all, but I wouldn't want to use it for a new project rich with GUIs and Internet stuff. C should be praised for its syntax.
This thread is about self-taught programmers and their gaps. Well, by learning C++ (with Stroustrup's book at least) your programming gaps will be minimized to the few mainstream paradigms C++ is not covering directly and, of course, all those theoretical notions (maths, algorithms, etc) a CS course offers.
C++ is a great intellectual investment to any software developer, amateur or professional s/he is. From there, anything else is downhill.
As Steve Yegge puts it: GO UGLY EARLY!
And for that, you chose C++? Really?
Not Ruby, not Python, not even Javascript? C++?
Yep. Why not? :)
C++ is multiparadigm, powerful, alive and kicking (waiting for the new standard actually), and had a new textbook for beginners from its original implementer. It also has many libraries that emulate programming paradigms not directly supported by C++ such as logical or functional, among many many other.
Except Lisp. And purely-functional languages, like Haskell. And interesting things like Erlang -- immutable, non-shared memory plus message-passing. And...
Hey, give me a break. I used the word most for a reason. Of course you can find exceptions. No language is perfect, but some are simply more powerful and supported than others. D is probably better than C++, but I wouldn't invest on learning it.
Learn one language well, and other languages will be easier to pick up, yes. But calling C++ "multiparadigm" is like calling Java "Object-Oriented".
I call Java object-oriented without problem. :)
It makes you sound smart, and it even makes sense when you know a little about the subject. Then you learn what the term actually means, and you see a language which actually does that successfully -- Ruby is object-oriented in a way Java can only dream of.
Whatever. The thing is Java is being taught as a first-language to academic departments for a reason, because it's easy and object-oriented. Ruby not so often. I chose C++ for technical reasons and specifications, not because I was searching a hobbyist language to learn programming. In my field C++ and Python are the tools.
If I had to learn a language simply for hobby I would probably pick something high-level such as Scala.
I'm learning C++ using Stroustrups's 2009 "Programming -- Principles and Practice Using C++" textbook. This book is huge, but well-written for both first-semester college students and self-taught programmers.
I opted for C++ instead of C because I wanted a multiparadigm language to help me learn different approaches to coding. The procedural paradigm is strong and useful to learn how computers work in low level, but I C++ provides with other useful paradigms as well which might come handy when you jump to another language. Afterall, learn C++ at an adequate level and then most other computer languages should be easy to comprehend.
Nevertheless, programming is expressing some ideas in code. To get these ideas and put them down in useful algorithms is another story. Perhaps in a formal Computer Science or Software Engineering course they learn about how to design the algorithms by practicing elegant abstraction techniques.
Google Catering?
Google Surgical?
Google Vacation?
Google Porn?
Google Heavy Industries?
The N900 has it own limitations the biggest being having to use AT&T or T-Mobile and large upfront cost.
Not in Europe. Actually, this side of the Atlantic the 3GS 32GB costs some €700 and the N900 about €600. Unsubsidized by telcos of course. I prefer to pay up front and then choose my own network according to my voice/data needs. When my contract is done they give me a huge bonus (according to my plan) to buy the phone I want.
Comparison of different generation electronic products is outright silly. You could reach the exact opposite conclusions by comparing the first-generation iPhone (pre-App Store) and the N900.
Just wait and see. Nokia and Intel together are too big to fail...
How can he be new if he has a lower member number than you?! :p
If you happen to read the BLS 2010-2011 Occupational Outlook Handbook for programmers, you'll see they are making a great distinction between simple programmers and software engineers. In fact, the good outlook is only for the software engineers (+32% until 2018) leaving the programmers at -3%. Please read the report where they give the explanation for the difference between these two kinds of developers, which might be technical, but really important to understand the powers of the market.
Programmers, unfortunately, can be easily outsourced, leaving much competition and perhaps lower salaries. Really well-prepared software engineers, on the other hand, will almost always thrive because they need to be physically near the places of R&D and new paradigms, talking face-to-face with customers, and experience the IT evolution first-hand. You can't always do that from Bangalore.
Similar definitions and hints you can find at the German BERUFENET about Computer Scientists and their various branches. Simple coders (programmers) are always the peons.
...some other portable light weight material (gold is far to heavy)...
What about Saffron? ...long the world's most expensive spice by weight... ...Saffron prices at wholesale and retail rates range from US$500 to US$5,000 per pound (US$1,100–11,000/kg)...
Damn, with one kilo of good quality saffron you can really have some nice vacation, without being stopped at any borders for illegal activity! :p
It's time to jump on the Neuroinformatics bandwagon...
I agree.
This is actually a good thing. Having that stupid deadline of 31 December 2009 was actually pushing the ISO teams to work by tossing many features or issues that otherwise might have gotten in. When the new C++ is out, it better be complete and stable for the next 10 years. What matters is this: have a complete standard so compiler producers won't need to add that many custom features.
Also, now that they're on Xbox Live, I encourage you to go back and play the Monkey Island games that seemed so funny when you were 12. They aren't.
Heh, I was recently looking at some YouTube walkthrough videos of MI and indeed what made me laugh back then isn't anymore... Nevertheless, for their day they were hilarious and pretty good entertainment for lots of teenagers.
If you go WHITE you won't go back... lol
Is it a coincidence that we're talking about a European conglomerate? Would they dare to propose something similar if Cisco was found to be selling such stuff?
I can sell you mustard ingredients to use it on your sausages. You shouldn't blame me if you gas your kids with it though....
New Zealand is probably the best. Superb countryside, fantastic people, open uncomplexed society.
I'm moving there anytime they offered me the opportunity!
If it weren't Nokia-Siemens it would have been another big corporation... Iran would be still under surveillance.
If this is what you want guys then the killer device is just around the corner. It's built on the Nokia Maemo and the applications will be built/ported with the easyness of Qt. If the screen is sexy enough (decent resolution, AMOLED, etc) while not too bulk it will kiss all PDAs and Internet tablets goodbye...
WebKit is also used by Symbian which has more clients than iPhone, Android, and Pre put together. Funny though, nobody in the States ever remembers that...
If you'd stop for a second to remove your head from between Ballmer's legs...
Damn. That was really disgusting man... :D
I prefer to find convenience ON my device, not on the market that sells it. Convenience is important. So are looks. And both Symbian (Ovi Store) and Google (Android Market) are getting there.
But my initial point, which you have missed completely since you repeat to me ad nauseam that "I don't get Apple's strategy" is that it will be too late if one day Apple becomes Microsoft for the phone OSes. We live in magnificent times in the mobile world. The two biggest platform producers deliver open source operating systems. We (both customers and developers) need to monetize on this momentum!
That was my initial suggestion (aka "flaimbait" by the Cupertino fanboyz that modded down an innocuous observation). I'm not trying to convince you, david, you already admitted you have an iPhone. I don't have an Android. :)
The problem is... developers sometimes are not informed well, mesmerized by the media attention Apple gets and fanboyz deliver. It's paradigmatic that in this very thread, a guy (in a parent comment) was asking where in the world Symbian/Android have 60% market coverage. Go figure!
Rest assured that both Symbian and Android give multiple tools and easy ways to design and deploy a mobile application. The only real winner (not anymore) has been the iPhone Store, which is a 100% marketing and convenience tool. Nothing more.
Concluding, my hopes go to those curious developers who really want to push their creativity to the limits while delivering the best available app to the customer. This can only happen if they get informed.
No informed person will ever decide to build an app to the worst platform possible.
Maury,
And vice versa on the vice versa. The difference of Symbian/Android is that it's open source and developers can actually shape the future of their platform or fork it to their needs. Try that with the iPhone.
The platform is bull by itself. It's the developers and the customers when they are not blinded simply by "fashion". If the developers decide to target another lucrative market (as the one we will see when the Nokia N97 will be finally launched... btw, watch for the upcoming Slashdot story!) you will see similar platforms take off. Android Store and Ovi Store have much more potential because of the tools and underlying tech they can provide to the developers.
I only hope they can provide some fine credit mechanism to sweeten the deal with the developers. That's what got the developing frenzy for iPhone afterall!
As for the iTunes market. You know there ARE alternative shops that help the entire market as well. Perhaps you simply don't know them. Be my guest!