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Apple Bans Jailbreakers From the App Store
Hugh Pickens writes "Adam Mills writes in the Examiner that Apple has been cutting off access to the iTunes App Store for iPhone hackers and jailbreakers. Sherif Hashim, the iPhone developer who successfully hacked the iPhone OS 3.1.3 and unlocked the 05.12.01 baseband for iPhone 3GS and 3G devices, discovered he'd been cut off and twittered: '"Your Apple ID was banned for security reasons," that's what i get when i try to go to the app store, they must be really angry.' Another hacker, iH8Sn0w, who is behind the Sn0wbreeze tool, confirms that his account has also been deactivated even though iH8sn0w's exploit had only been revealed to Dev Team, the group responsible for the PwnageTool. 'It is kind of surprising that two people associated with jailbreaking have had this happen to them so soon after one another, but it's too early to say if this is a campaign that Apple is starting up,' writes Mills."
We'll need a bit more evidence than 2 cases.
Anyway, that would be an effective way to encourage people to try out alternate ways to acquire the same software...
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
That's why I've told anyone who jailbroke to use a separate account for apps on jailbroken devices.
Kind of silly, IMO. You're going to ban people from possibly paying for apps? Not every app is jailbroken, some are cracked incorrectly (some of the antipiracy mechanisms in apps I've seen are nothing short of hilarious trolling), and some are out of date. Additionally, if an app is really good, a user may buy the app to support the dev.
So you ban people and what happens? People jailbreak all the free apps too.
Seems like a bad move on Apple's part.
Jail-breaking facilitates piracy
I could possibly understand if app store apps were at crazy prices or forced you to bend over backwards in order to use them. But the majority of them cost, what, £5? Maybe £7 or £9?
.....cooler, 8 weeks.
3.1.3 hasn't been "hacked". The chap discovered a specific crash which could trigger a crash in the baseband software, potentially being one day developed into an unlock. Long way off..
The other guy cobbled a VB front-end onto a load of other people's utilities to make a questionably legal Windows version of an existing OSX program for creating custom firmware bundles.
Bit of an overreaction on Apple's part if you ask me.
Is a lot like the experience you have after having a few too many drinks and wandering into a dark alley at 3AM.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Sounds like it's time for a little spoofing. One account for access to the app store, another to give the Apple security thugs some red meat to chew on. Time to teach Mr. Jobs some manners.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Am I the only one who thinks that this line is disturbingly Orwellian?
That is one of the huge drawbacks of such a closed ecosystem.
However, the original post is less agitate than the summary:
Is Apple starting to ban those associated with jailbreaking?
The answer is probably not. [...] however it definitely would put an iron grip on those who pirate free software. The details of what is going on remain extremely murky but maybe they are taking down some of the bigger players.
"Hannibal's plans never work right. They just work." Amy/A-Team
Hi Apple! Been a big fan since I dumped Linux in '04 or so. I've really enjoyed MacOS X and my laptops. You sold me a good UNIX with support for Microsoft Office - which I need. But you know what? Ever since you started making money hands over fist with iTunes, you've started REALLY SUCKING as a company. I don't want to buy from you any longer. My next phone will NOT be an iPhone. My next laptop will NOT be another Macbook. I think I'll be perfectly happy with an unlocked Nexus and a laptop running FreeBSD. So... FUCK OFF, Apple. For me, your time has come and gone. -M
...But do not expect the hardware/software's creator to give you carte blanche access to the resources to do it.
And heaven help you should you do what they fear you or others could do if your code has a serious bug; spam or interrupt the cell network or a local wifi network. The onslaught of Apple's lawyers, not to mention the FCC and other international communications regulators, would by a iPocalypse in itself.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
"We'll need a bit more evidence than 2 cases."
That Apple is taking actions that try to tighten their control and limit consumer choice?
Yeah, that would be something extraordinary and unprecedented...
I'm not sure where these people are based, but many countries would have them protected here. The iPhone is pretty much useless without the app store and apple are very clear that it is the main selling point in their adverts. By cutting people off from a monopoly store they have changed the functionality of the device which is still being paid for.
I'd stop paying my contract fees immediately until the access is restored, personally.
have a price tag with it. in this case, price is freedom.
apple users should face the distasteful truth. the company which is providing them 'stylish' and 'hip' products that 'just work', is just wanting to keep them as cash cows without any consumer choice.
Read radical news here
I agree. I've been waiting so long for this, just getting to know the thing exists felt like a Christmas present.
This obviously sucks for the people involved, but I can't help but feel this is actually superb news. Maybe this will finaly drive home that the ability to jailbreak your devices does not excuse manufactures for making locked-down closed devices. Far too often I've heard arguments of the form: "[DEVICES] are not locked down, because you can jailbreak them if you want to."
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
Yeah, everything was better in the olden days. I remember when we could just bash everything but Linux, but now freakin' COMPANIES sometimes do things right! What is the world coming to...
-- Cheers!
I got the exact same message a couple of weeks ago when I tried to log in to ADC. Here's a screenshot: http://tomasf.se/other/appleid.jpg
I'm not a jailbreaker, though, so either Apple made a mistake in my case, or this has nothing to do with jailbreaking. Now to figure out how to resolve this... :-/
Indeed, and see this Apple KB article:
So who's to say it's not someone just messing with these guys? All it takes is a few bad login attempts to temporarily disable ANY Apple ID.
And even if Apple was disabling just these Apple IDs, it's clearly not of all people with jailbroken devices, else we would know about it; instead it's specific, individual people (who are probably in violation of Apple's terms of service for Apple IDs).
Umm I do not have an iPhone but at least 13 MILLION people do. They expect to sell another 15 million or so this year and I would bet on it if the 4G is released.
You may not like the "lock in" from Apple or the "lame" AT&T service but it is FAR from "crap" or "stupid". The iPhone DOMINATES the worldwide smartphone market. http://theappleblog.com/2010/01/22/iphone-dominating-worldwide-smartphone-usage-report/
The N900 has it own limitations the biggest being having to use AT&T or T-Mobile and large upfront cost.
"Adam Mills writes in the Examiner that Apple has been cutting off access to the iTunes App Store for iPhone hackers and jailbreakers"
Actually, that's not what the article says. Maybe Apple is seeking these accounts out to ban, but there is certainly little evidence to suggest this and the anecdotal evidence provided is weak. Wow Slashdot, the downward spiral continues. What is this reddit or something?
Keep digging that hole for yourself, Apple. It'll save Android from having to do the heavy lifting.
Is it that hard to ask your favorite search engine? Their Apple ID was disabled, so what do you do - how about just resetting your password? http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2446 They weren't "banned" because they got jailbroken phones, sheesh...
For goodness sake, who gives a crap about the stupid iphone?
I care not because I own one (I do, but it's not jailbroken), but because according to Jobs, this is the computing wave of the future. Apple is trying to prevent any usefulness for jailbreaking before they release their latest computer, the iPad. They're scared of what freedoms users can have with an iPad if jailbreaking them becomes common, so they need to make it very undesirable. The next step is an OS kill-switch, and I believe it will happen now. I thought for sure they wouldn't go _this_ far.
Hey, at least Microsoft didn't do this. Then it'd be downright evil.
A manipulated verification procedure for software to be installed *is* a security problem. If the procedure is manipulated, then it is imaginable that binaries transferred from the appstore to the phone get manipulated on the way and that apple is liable for the damage from that. If the promise is a safe delivery of an application, then, as a customer you probably can sue them if you can prove that apple got knowledge about this and did *not* inform you. So technically speaking, an jailbroken iphone is a system which is damaged in a way which prevents a security feature (the use of is -for whatever reason- mandatory) needed for the safe use of the app. store from working. That the "Security" coindcides with Apples best interests and that Apple did not give a possibility to turn off this feature, is written on another sheet of paper.
And-actually-i highly doubt that it is a legal right of a iphone owner to use the app store forever. Nobody stops you from using the iphone as you wish, i mean that was the primary purpose of jailbreaking, wasnt it?
BTW: My Nokia E63 has a way of turning the certificate checking off and on in a controlled way.
You're an idiot. That's smartphone online usage, not market share. In market share, the iPhone has little more than 10%, while Nokia has 36% and RIM has more than 20%.
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This is why I do not buy anything from Apple. I will not be forced into a little bubble like all of you cattle out there. I have missed nothing as the result. By the way, my phone dose multitasking and I am not banned from anything (except Apple).
Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
cede , not seed.
this would really really suck if true - it will only drive all jailbreakers to pirating all apps instead of purchasing them legitimately ....
At least I personally don't see jailbreakers as all pirates - I personally have a jailbroken phone (as I couldn't use it in my country otherwise when I first got it) but don't pirate, and till now haven't seen piracy as an issue (I've not bothered putting piracy checks in my apps as I figure the small portion of users that do pirate mostly wouldn't buy the app otherwise anyway, and if they really want to go that effort to just save $1 then they probably need the money more than me) .... but if every jailbreaker is forced into piracy that would change things a long
...except for the bit where they're free to abandon Apple's products the instant they get sick of them, and find something they perceive to be better.
Ban jailbreakers from the app store. Then you don't get the 30% cut of the apps they would be legitimately buying anymore, and instead they'll just be forced to learn how to pirate the apps they want.
If that's the case I'ma stock up on T.P. since I'm about to discover porn all over again!
Sig Follows: "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain
Amen brother.
Lets take the other company everyone says is such a lock in MS. XP which has been out since 2001 still has some support left in it. The iPod I bought 3 years after that in 2004 0 support. Same thing with many OSX versions out there. Apple has about a 3 year support timeframe. Dont expect anymore out of them. MS has bent over backwards to make things from 1985 still work on their OS. MS has show time and time again that they are 'out of it'. But they have decent support you have to give them props for that. That they recently cut off the old XBox actually somewhat shocked me considering their track history.
Here's a possible other side: Someone learned their login credentials, or at least the name, and tried too many times to log on as them. Poof, account locked for security reasons.
I'm usually not the first to come to Apple's defense (personally, I try hard to avoid their products exactly for the same reason I avoid Sony, I'm not a big fan of vendor lock-in), but I think we should first of all wait 'til it's verified that this is due to their jailbreaking.
Then there's still enough time to give them the verbal smackdown they (then) deserve.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Back in Oct 09 there were 4 million jailbroken iphones, of those at 38% have at least one pirated application. The numbers are real and growing. In order for the app store to be a viable business Apple has to protect the IP of the app holders. It's really sad, because there are great free uses of jail broken phones. It's too bad the pirate community ruined things for the free software community.
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/new_iphone_app_piracy_statistics_reveal_try_before_you_buy_myth.php
Lotus 1-2-3 has an unassailable market position! Now please insert the master license disk from your copy of 1-2-3 and Press Any Key to Continue...
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
Yeah, poor guys aren't able to buy any legitimate software...now they'll be forced to download them for free on sites like thepiratebay.
Hey! What a coincidence! Same with every jailbroken iPhone user!
They can do multitasking and are not banned from anything (maybe even except Apple because this is only two cases).
First... All Apple products don't exist in an "Apple bubble". Only the iPhone and iPod Touch, UNJAILBROKEN do. Even this is a moot point for you to make since the choices are vastly greater in the "Apple Bubble" than on any other phone. Since when has more choices been bad? The only reason I have an iPhone is because I have more apps to dl than any other phone, at the moment. When this changes I'll change phones.
I think you're just as bad as any Apple Devotee's with your Anti-Apple attitude. Really, just because it's made by Apple is a stupid reason to reject the technology. How about making an open decision about the product as it stands in the market? How about a powerful phone with full touch screen and more apps than any other device? Android is catching up and as soon as my contract is up I expect Android to have a better dev platform. At that point I'll probably switch. How about thinking about things before you blindly bash Apple? K?
No, apple ruined it for 62%.
Maybe it was the "cattle" comment. Sounds like a flame to me.
You mean apple ruined it for 62%.
So... when did it become legal for businesses to keep a blacklist in the USA? Can I open a store and ban all Apple fanbois from making purchases from me?
"Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
Who says it's Apple cutting the strings? Apple has plenty of licensing agreements that surely require Apple to intervene when interests are compromised. They crippled iPods for the sake of record labels for the iTunes store, i.e. disabled iPod-to-iPod transfers and recording capabilities. That's the only reason two iPods can't be linked and synchronized over Firewire (yes they could do that without a computer as host), otherwise they could only sell one copy of a song to each high school at best. I imagine Verizon doesn't want iPhones using VOIP over 3G either.
I think it's a bad move. 95% of people willing and able to jailbreak an iPhone are also willing and able to pirate apps. All this does is assure that they do. I bet more than half the jailbreakers buy apps legitimately, even those using VOIP over 3G. It's like they're treating a rash by amputating the leg.
War as we knew it was obsolete
Nothing could beat complete denial
- Emily Haines
Since any business can reserve the right to service anyone?
When did it become illegal?
he iPhone DOMINATES the worldwide smartphone mark
as determined by requests made by devices for ads on AdMob’s extensive mobile advertising network.,
In other words this has nothing to do with market share , or even usage - only usage of apps that interact with AdMob's network. (Presumably this is more than just the web browser - which would limit the significance of this even further - but I don't have time to look it up.)
Let the hackers build their own business and see how they react when someone tries to crash their party. On another note, Apple uses these guys to improve the security on their products. Free security testing.
This is why I do not buy anything from Apple.
Nothing wrong with not buying Apple. Your logic is a bit flawed, but it's your money to spend, so it's your logic, for better or for worse.
I will not be forced into a little bubble
There are only two bubbles Apple "forces" you into:
1. Mac OS X only runs (without hacking) on Apple hardware.
2. iPhones OS only runs (without hacking) App Store software.
Everything else is very open.
like all of you cattle out there.
Does name-calling factor into your logic?
I have missed nothing as the result.
I'll suggest that your phone has fewer apps available than the iPhone (ironic that the more free device offers fewer choices). Also, you're missing out on a more refined user experience.
Not that you may care about such things, being a non-bovine entity yourself, and far superior to anyone who ever buys Apple products.
and I am not banned from anything (except Apple).
Interestingly, neither am I, *including* Apple.
Apple where data goes to die
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
No later than when they passed the ADA.
Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
I've had the exact same message!
OMG! Apple is punishing me for NOT jailbreaking my iPhone, and NOT doing anything illegal with my machine and MobileMe account!
Keep digging that hole for yourself, Apple.
Sheesh. So somebody figured they'd try and log into some fairly prominent hackers' MobileMe account, and three incorrect passwords disabled the ID.
And now, it's all over the net, because these morons are known by their real names and dumb enough to sense massive paranoia (OMG it's almost like they feel they're doing something wrong innit?)
FWIW: Give me your MobileMe username - i.e. your email addy, or even just a reasonable guess, and I can make you see that very same message in a few seconds. Wanna bet?
So being an Apple fanboi is a disability? :-)
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
With a reply like that you don't need to point out that you aren't a lawyer, really.
It was me. (Or it would have been, had I thought of this.)
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8
You jailbreak the phone, not the apps. A jailbroken iPhone or iPod touch is one that has been freed from Apple's grasp so that apps outside of the App store may be installed on it, themes may be used, etc.
The thing Apple needs to realize is that just wanting to have full control over your iPhone OS is nowhere near the same thing as using pirated apps on it.
For people to get banned from the App store just because they want control over their phone is preposterous ! If anything, that's going to ENCOURAGE people to download pirated apps from the Internet (cutting them off from the App store gives them no way to make legitimate purchases!) DUHH Apple, let friggen go already!! Stop letting the power go to your head!!
When did it become illegal?
Well, IANAL, but I would guess the very moment I was granted the right to pursue happiness. You see, putting my name on a list to prevent me from purchasing something is an obstruction to my pursuit of happiness, and would thus be unconstitutional, and thus illegal.
Where in the Constitution were you guaranteed the right to pursue happiness? The only US document that I know of with those words are in the Declaration of Independence, which does not grant any rights.
-Turkey
I have gotten the message before "this Apple ID has been disabled for security reasons.".
Its not permanent and apple isnt targeting hackers.
I think there ego's are a little to big, they get a message and immediatly think apple is after them.
LOL maybe next time they will google search it first and see that other people have gotten it before as well.
First they banned the jailbreakers, and I did not speak out—because I was not a jailbreaker;
Then they banned the crackers, and I did not speak out—because I was not a cracker;
Then they banned the script kiddies, and I did not speak out—because I was not a script kiddie;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to write iPhone apps.
Captcha: repress
1) You weren't granted the "right to pursue happiness".
2) That "right" isn't mentioned in the United States Constitution.
The Declaration of Independence states that "the pursuit of happiness" is one of the inalienable Rights endowed to men by their Creator. The Declaration of Independence, however, carries very little legal weight in itself. Anyway, the government doesn't really give a damn about how happy you are. You may be born with the right to pursue happiness, but ain't nothin' says you're entitled to actually find it.
And even if there were a Constitutional right to "pursue happiness", your legal reasoning is faulty. It is well established that businesses have the right to refuse service to anybody for any reason, except on the basis of discrimination against a protected class of people. And phone hackers most certainly do not fall into any such class.
Right, all Apple users are fanbois. I hate them SO MUCH! And people who use Microsoft products too! Windows fanbois are almost as bad as FOSS fanbois. When will all you fanbois realize that you should be using real computers, like my Commodore 64?!
Well, what do you expect, from a company that allows the speeches of a known fascist and disallows any mention of their competition?
In today's market, most people just want to be like everyone else. Apple has a monopoly power over their market segment and they are happy with that. Their policies may push away 90% of the developers, hackers, and enthusiasts. Unfortunately, this stopped being an important market segment years ago.
What the hell does that have to do with this situation? A private business has the right to refuse service to anyone as long as it is not institutionalized racism, sexism, ageism, or to the disabled.
Although, I am curious what a security risks a jail broken phone poses in a download only app/community.
This is the exact warning you get when your password is entered several times incorrectly, it is possible somebody got a list of developers apple ID's and was trying to brute force their way in. A quick trip to iforgot.apple.com would solve this pretty quickly.
Gee, two HIGH profile developers are locked out of their accounts - with the SAME error message Apple send when they suspect someone has been trying to break into an account. Golly, you don't think maybe someone has been trying to brute their account passwords do you? Wake me when it's more than two and some unknown guy who has no reason to be targeted gets the error and Apple tells him to blow off when he calls them. So far all I've read on this seems to indicate that someone tried to get into their account - have they even asked Apple to reactivate their accounts?
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
Like even USING the damn phone on the network of my choice. Mine was network-locked before being hacked, so whenever I upgrade the firmware I need to rehack it to unlock the baseband.
Other things that probably *REALLY* piss off apple are awesome apps like Cycorder, I think that initially you had to get a 3Gs to record video (although I believe there's app-store stuff for that now), cycorder worked from day 1.
Ah well, my Milestone is in the mail. Screw you Apple you're not getting my business anymore.
So Apple decided that the people who discover and publicize ways to exploit cracks in the wall around Apple's garden that they were no longer welcome in said walled garden?
I don't know that it'll accomplish anything, but I can't say as I blame them.
I'm currently looking to upgrade my phone.
Thanks for helping me to shorten my list by giving me a solid reason to not consider iPhone.
But I have consumer choice. I can buy a non-Apple device if I ever find Apple's system too restrictive. Please don't assume what my priorities are when it comes to computer systems.
I jailbroke mine for a couple of reasons.
1- lifting the stupid Rogers 10MB limit on 3G. I have a 6GB/mo plan, I want to use it as I want. (Skype works now on 3G)
2- Better tethering from PDAnet than from Apple. faster too
3- Background apps
4- I can customise and remove unneeded icons from the springboard
5- Allows me to install *FREE* apps that are not available in Canada's store but elsewhere (kinda stupid restriction)
6- Homebrew software.
7- better control over the device
8- can now use it as a USB key
9- many others...
Guess what device will be jailbroke next by those guys? iPad.
I've got better things to do tonight than die.
It all helps my Android based business and I hate Apple.
I signed up for the iPhone Developer Program as an Individual
There are three steps to signing up for the iPhone Developer Program:
You say you selected individual on step 3. I imagine that years ago, a company name may not have been required for step 2, and that you may have completed step 2 then. But when I tried step 2 around September of last year when I bought a Mac mini, a blank Company field was not acceptable.
I'm seeing the logic here as this: You didn't pay for our software, so we're not going to let you pay for our software. How exactly does that make sense?
Pfft, you kids and your shiny bleeding-edge gadgets. My PDP-11 works fine and I don't have to worry about losing all my data when I leave the program cassette on my dashboard like you do.
The N900 has it own limitations the biggest being having to use AT&T or T-Mobile and large upfront cost.
Not in Europe. Actually, this side of the Atlantic the 3GS 32GB costs some €700 and the N900 about €600. Unsubsidized by telcos of course. I prefer to pay up front and then choose my own network according to my voice/data needs. When my contract is done they give me a huge bonus (according to my plan) to buy the phone I want.
"Sum Ergo Cogito"
The right is not mentioned in the constitution. But, the constitution enumerates ways that the government (federal) can impinge on the people's (and state's) rights. It never grants specific rights to people, rather says that all rights are inferred upon people unless otherwise stated here. Of course that has been debated very much, especially with the right to bear arms (I like the Family Guys take on that one). I agree with most of the rest of what you say, except for the "very little legal weight" that the Declaration of Independence has. If by very little you mean absolutely none, then I do agree.
>2. iPhones OS only runs (without hacking) App Store software.
>
> Everything else is very open.
I believe this is the common point of contention, and many would consider it 'not open'.
As for the shear number of iPhone apps, that falls into the 'who cares' category to me, as I find the vast majority of the apps available (for free and for pay, iPhone and other-phone) to be useless crap. Incidentally this is why I'm not a App-ionare, as I personally can't fathom why someone would want an app for their phone that makes the shotgun 'chink-chink' sound or simulates a Zippo lighter. (nor can I fathom why anyone cares that you're currently twating while drinking a mocca-latte or whatever..).
O NOEZ! I is an evil iPhone hacker and can no longer spend money on appz in the appz store! Now I can only get pirate appz for free! O WO IZ MI!
theirs 4 million jailbroken devices out there and they say 38% have pirate apps on them but what does apple consider pirate if its just 1 apps out of 50 that tosses in that number.. do they conserder any home brew stuff pirate like enabling flash video and safari downloads. see thats what you gotta looks at when apple says stuff like that. yes my i touch 2g is jailbroken but mostly to enable flash and direct downloading on my ipod. to the point if apple starts banning jail broken devices there all there doing is losing money. iphone users do it to get away from at@t and use the career they like and can you blame em. and others users do it to unlock features apple refuses to put in. then you got the pirates. so banning the large group if jailbroken devices that still use itunes store = lost money and i bet alot of it. most ipohnes are jail broken every one i ever see anyways. i bet it would even make itunes market share go down.
Sure, you can hack your device as you please and give apple the middle finger, but with Itunes they are providing a service, so they set the entrance rules.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Anything that you see on Sourceforge can be freely compiled, modified and run on an Android phone. That kills your little Apple application pool right there.
So... when did it become legal for businesses to keep a blacklist in the USA? Can I open a store and ban all Apple fanbois from making purchases from me?
Uh, if you really think about it, this kind of control has gone on for decades in the legal gambling arena. You've probably heard of horror stories regarding card counters and cheats being caught in Las Vegas. This is basically the same thing. Chances are they DID violate either a EULA, TOS, or both when "cracking" away on products, so it's not like Apple doesn't have a leg to stand on here...
Some of us accidentally upgraded ours and would like to get our hands on it.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
This is why I do not buy anything from Apple. I will not be forced into a little bubble like all of you cattle out there. I have missed nothing as the result. By the way, my phone dose multitasking and I am not banned from anything (except Apple).
Hrm...Much like traveling the world, how do you know what you've missed when you've never been?
The interesting thing about this "bubble" here? Everything seems to just WORK...You know, kind of in the opposite direction that so many Linux distros ran for YEARS, with scores of people struggling to get a damned driver to work properly without having to read four books on C and PERL scripting.
| There are only two bubbles Apple "forces" you into:
|
| 1. Mac OS X only runs (without hacking) on Apple hardware.
| 2. iPhones OS only runs (without hacking) App Store software.
|
| Everything else is very open.
Not quite accurate:
* To write code for the iPhone, you essentially need XCode running on Apple hardware.
* Code written for the iPhone (ObjC) is a PITA to port to any other OS other than OSX.
* I still can't sync music to my iPhone from Linux on the new firmware.
* I still can't play ogg files on the iPhone
So this 'Everything else' must not include much that I care about.
If ever a comment warranted the addition of a "-1, Idiot" moderation option, it would be yours.
Yes, it's very open except for all the parts that are very closed. That makes perfect sense. But a gilded cage is still a cage. I just wouldn't be happy in one. I don't like having someone who decides what I can and can't do with my phone, telling me that my dictionary app can't have naughty words in it (what if a kid saw them!?), or that I can't make applications that compete with Apple's (at least on the iPhone), or anything else they decide to throw into the endless hell of waiting for approval (like they did with that Google application that they're putting under endless "review" so that they don't have to admit to banning it).
This was proven wrong in the Firehose. You'd think given the flood of comments that maybe /. would issue an update/correction. Don't let that jerking knee hit you in the chin.
Apple's KB article on the topic: http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2446
See here: http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2446
the only reason my phone is jailbroken is for cosmetics. the iphone doesn't have a lot of customization built into it as far as visual menus.
that's it.
every app i have, i paid for.
if you wanna ban me for modifying my own hardware for my own purposes, then go for it.
Well, IANAL, but I would guess the very moment I was granted the right to pursue happiness. You see, putting my name on a list to prevent me from purchasing something is an obstruction to my pursuit of happiness, and would thus be unconstitutional, and thus illegal.
A few points -
- The Constitution doesn't grant you the right to pursue happiness. In fact, it grants no rights at all, it recognizes existing rights. You're thinking of the Declaration of Independence, which has zero legal weight.
- You have the right to pursue happiness, not to achieve it. You're free to pursue it all you want, but no one else is required to help you achieve it or not hinder same.
P.S. It's obvious that YANAL.
Yeh, if you put an apple sticker on the dash you can park in disabled spaces!
Gee, I wonder why you quoted an article almost a year old...
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
There are only two bubbles Apple "forces" you into:
1. Mac OS X only runs (without hacking) on Apple hardware. 2. iPhones OS only runs (without hacking) App Store software.
Everything else is very open.
I think you forgot:
3. iPod music players that only work with iTunes (Dont even think you can hack these to be straight drag/drop mp3 players either)
4. Apple TV (without hacking your own codecs in so it can play anything)
5. The new iPad probably has its own little bubble as well
hmm.. I think that about covers everything they sell, or did I miss something
Apple like their bubbles, even if you don't realise they are there..
Ummm...
You forgot how the Iphone OS locks you into Apple's distribution channel. That is pretty much it, no apple controls the supply of the Hardware, Software and Application stack from end to end so it is pretty much the dictionary definition of a vertical monopoly, where one company controls the entire product until the end of its life. In short, Apple is trying to and in most cases suceeding in controlling what you do
If you think the walled garden is not coming to regular OS X then think again. Apple is changing from X86 to ARM with proprietary Apple extensions. Apple have learned from the Hackintoshes that using stock standard hardware will just make it easy for hackers to get around their walls. Apple also learned from the iphone that many consumers will happily take any kind of abuse and lockdown so long as the device is "cool". They will bring this knowledge into their computer line, very soon Macbooks and Imacs will be running the Iphone OS on ARM Processors.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
You're right, but it wasn't on purpose. Still, the iPhone doesn't have the largest market share, let alone "dominating" the market: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20100202/tc_nf/71423
Dilbert RSS feed
Although, I am curious what a security risks a jail broken phone poses in a download only app/community.
http://www.tipb.com/2009/07/03/jailbroken-iphones-security-risk/ Ask Jonathan Miller - but what does he know, pft.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
* Code written for the iPhone (ObjC) is a PITA to port to any other OS other than OSX.
Only for an amateur developer.
A real developer writes the majority of their app in C++, and writes a wrapper for every system the app is ported to.
For Windows, the wrapper would be in C++, and control the app launch, window set-up, graphics calls, etc.
For Linux, the wrapper would be in C++, and control the app launch, window set-up, graphics calls, etc.
For iPhone the wrapper is in Obj-C, and controls the app launch, window set-up, graphics calls, etc.
No serious developer should post that the wrapper is too hard for them. It's a non-issue.
How do you imagine that companies like PopCap get all their software out for so many platforms? Trivial example, but valid nonetheless.
| There are only two bubbles Apple "forces" you into:
|
| 1. Mac OS X only runs (without hacking) on Apple hardware.
| 2. iPhones OS only runs (without hacking) App Store software.
|
| Everything else is very open.
Not quite accurate:
* To write code for the iPhone, you essentially need XCode running on Apple hardware.
Sort of. Objective C is the iPhone's native language. However, this falls within the App Store software item I mentioned.
* Code written for the iPhone (ObjC) is a PITA to port to any other OS other than OSX.
Not at all. However, code written against the Cocoa and Cocoa Touch frameworks are. But it's a silly argument, as Cocoa Touch is what the iPhone OS uses. And again, this is an App Store requirement.
* I still can't sync music to my iPhone from Linux on the new firmware.
That OS lacks drivers for the iPhone. On the topic of being forced into a bubble, I don't think it's all that valid. People don't complain about other companies forcing people into bubbles simply because their product doesn't work on one OS or another.
* I still can't play ogg files on the iPhone
Incorrect. There are apps to do just that.
So this 'Everything else' must not include much that I care about.
I don't know what you're getting at here. I was talking about being forced into bubbles. You're just listing your dislikes and the fact that it doesn't support your preferred OS. I don't complain that Linux forces me into a bubble because it won't run my favorite software, or support my preferred hardware. In fact, if I did, I'd get flamed quite thoroughly, I'm sure.
Ummm...
You forgot how the Iphone OS locks you into Apple's distribution channel. That is pretty much it, no apple controls the supply of the Hardware, Software and Application stack from end to end so it is pretty much the dictionary definition of a vertical monopoly, where one company controls the entire product until the end of its life. In short, Apple is trying to and in most cases suceeding in controlling what you do
Ummm, I highlighted the part you quoted where I said just that (well, except for the part of Apple "controlling what I do").
If you think the walled garden is not coming to regular OS X then think again. Apple is changing from X86 to ARM with proprietary Apple extensions. Apple have learned from the Hackintoshes that using stock standard hardware will just make it easy for hackers to get around their walls. Apple also learned from the iphone that many consumers will happily take any kind of abuse and lockdown so long as the device is "cool". They will bring this knowledge into their computer line, very soon Macbooks and Imacs will be running the Iphone OS on ARM Processors.
You are insane.
myself, not mysef
You can pursue happiness. You're not guaranteed to get it.
Pursue all you like.
+++OK ATH
LOL - OK so Apple is blocking people for "security risk" when the risk is to the user, not Apple? That's absurd. The entire internet should be blocked if we embrace that logic.
Never gonna happen, for the simple reason that they need the independent Macintosh developers to provide them with the 140000+ apps to fill their app store. You need XCode to write iPhone apps and for XCode you need a full computer.
Where I live, around 5 years ago more and more Apple laptops appeared in computer science university classes, b/c apple managed to marry a complete Unix stack to a nice and functioning GUI. It's a joy to develop on OS X. Of course, as soon as Apple closes up their OS X line, these people will be the first to jump ship. And after a while the masses will follow.
Apple would shoot themselves in their own foot should they ever close up OS X.
Free Manning, jail Obama.
There are only two bubbles Apple "forces" you into:
1. Mac OS X only runs (without hacking) on Apple hardware. 2. iPhones OS only runs (without hacking) App Store software.
Everything else is very open.
This and all the counter arguments should be summarized by Apple's old description of its customers; they "think different". If you understand English or somehow fit into the normalcy of current society, you do not think different and are outside of Apple's bubble. And are a treated as a second-class citizen.
Seriously. This is so screwed up, I dont know where to begin.
First, AppStore is filled to the brim with small apps that almost doesnt do anything, and too often doesnt even do what is advertised properly.
Many dont even have a trial, and those small chunks of money starts to add up when you find out none of the apps have any real sense of quality.
I still dont have MMS or Smileys on my 1st gen iPhone (no SwirlyMMS doesnt cut it, far from it). 1st gen is somehow cut off from using MMS by some hacks by Apple that clears out the MMS settings when you put in your provider`s configuration there.. Ive tried everything (damn that night was long), and still no dice.
It seems nobody, not Apple, not AppStore devs, not freeware devs, are able to make something I find useful, for the 1st gen iPhone.
Yesterday, I searched for 2 goddamn hours for an app that could meter network traffic, both wifi and edge - nothing. Just a massive bunch of other do-nothing apps that could measure golf ball sizes, or whatnot.
Everyone and their dog has ported *something* to iPhone, just not much useful stuff other than another alarm clock, a few office tools you can be without and a bunch of tiny apps that almost doesnt do anything. WTF do I want VNC on the iPhone for? The screen is horrible for VNC. I mean it could be useful once in a year, but its not very useful for everyday work (unless you want to fake working..)
NEVER EVER will I buy from Apple again. If I buy a phone, I expect the kinks to be worked out in a sane upgrade path, but this is just ridiculous. I also own a Macbook Pro. Luckily, it can play XP 80%, which is good enough for my use. Just too bad Bootcamp doesnt utilize the hardware 100%.. Again, shortcomings from a company claiming to bring design and perfection, but which is just a FAD and a much worse provider than even Microsoft.. What kind of tools do these chimps think we customers are??
Every time I see that word in a tech context, I immediately think of those full-page magazine ads for the Transwarp Apple II accelerator cards, with the little halftone picture of Steve Wozniak grinning in the corner, and the quote beneath the picture, reading: "I endorse Applied Engineering products wholeheartedly!" :/
Even after 25 years that is wedged in my brain.
I think the apple position is unfair but in Apple rights..
If you jailbreak the iPhone and try to connect to iTuneStore, you cna harm the DRM iPhone Apps.
Apple has the right to ban some iPhone serials if this can be a security risk.
Doing so, the iPhone becomes the less free-to-use device I have never see
-- Giovanni Daitan Giorgi http://gioorgi.com http://www.siforge.org
Ermm what? You asked what risk a jail broken IPhone poses to yourself. Live with it.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
I am not sure you are replying to the correct /. post
NOTE: Bolded parts were not part of my original post. So basically you're saying I'm right. Apple does control what you do unless you break the device via hacking, which Apple expressly forbids in the EULA.
Because Apple has never changed processor architecture arbitrarily in the past. Nor has Apple ever ignored good business sense or the feedback of it's own customers.
Whatever you need to tell yourself, time will tell and Apple's history says this is not just plausible but likely.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Two things wrong with that statement.
1. Apple needs independent developers.
Apple has shown wanton disregard for independent developers, the sheer number of rejections from the app store over trivial reasons (mentions Android, has "i" in the name, duplication of functionality) should be enough to prove that. Once large developers like EA start signing contracts Apple will happily ignore the independent developers completely in favour of iFishville or whatever. The app store is all about lock in, it's easier to control a few large devs then it is to control many small devs.
2. You need XCode to write iPhone apps and for XCode you need a full computer.
This is as simple as porting the SDK to ARM. Nothing more to it. I'm not doubting that the ARM Imac's will not be full computers, (an Android smart phone is a full computer, just a very small one) but they will be ARM based with proprietary hardware and a locked down OS. Putting the SDK on here would only permit you to develop applications, with mandatory signing or activation enforced by the SDK Apple can easily restrict your applications to your computer only.
Setting up a Linux dev environment on an ARM processor is already possible, GCC and many other tools are already there. It's not a stretch of the imagination that Apple can do the same, they've already got a whole OS (albeit a locked down OS) running on ARM.
Re-examine your history (the real one, not the one Apple approves of), Apple's discharged the anti-podiatry artillery this badly at least twice in it's past. The last time it took a 150 Million USD cash injection from Microsoft just to keep them alive.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
I have to disagree. The app store lock-in is about "protecting" the consumer not screwing the developers. In fact, for a lot of independent developers it offers a sweat deal. Unfortunately, with every bureaucracy comes abuse. My bet is that the (current) app store concept will fail, just as iTunes DRM failed.
IHMO Steve Jobs supports the app store is in large part based on a fear that a completely open system would be a huge target for malware. Now a good OS would mitigate against this, but this is a new market for Apple and so he's playing it safe. Understandable, because first impressions matter, especially if you're the "cool kid."
I could be completely wrong of course. But Jobs built the Next station for pete's sake, a developers dream station at the time.
Free Manning, jail Obama.
I'll rephrase a bit. The bubble that Apple forces you into if you are a developer, is to write your code in XCode.
I'd be surprised if any approved apps in the AppStore were not written using XCode. XCode only runs on OSX. OSX only runs on Apple hardware.
The two bubbles you mention are valid, but there are more than two bubbles.
To get an app into the AppStore you must be developing using Apple hardware running OSX.
Regarding the 'Everything else is very open.' statement. If that were true, it would be easy to sync my mp3s over to my iPhone under linux. It would be easy to sync my oggs over the iTunes in the iPhone using linux. It would be easy to change cellular providers. It would be easy to play my movies purchased through iTunes under linux .. It would be easy to buy media through the iTunes store under linux .. It would be easy to save a document as an .odt in at least one Apple product .. iTunes would support OGG media without modification ..
In summary: Apple at every turn chooses the path that locks their customers into using their products.
Apple does make slick products, but they are not 'open'. I'd love to hear ways in which they are open though.
Valid :)
Thanks, but I don't need the hep...