Does it seem that the distributed effort used for the Mono project might be better used in actually creating a Ximian desktop that works out of the box as easily as KDE?
It just seems that there a lot of Gnome/Ximian based efforts that need to be finished first before Gnome 2.0 gets out the door onto distributions and people start fussing about what is missing. Like what?
Well, Ximian needs to finish out the Ximian Setup project for one. It would be very nice to have set up tools for a desktop that work in any distro . For the hardcore command line folks this is no big deal but for that desktop push it is very important and if done well would take away a lot of divergent wasted effort by distro makers in creating a dozen or so different ideas of how to do set up administration tools.
At least, I will say that we as a community are not ignoring the threat of the Internet becoming standardized around Redmond and the C# stuff.
However, it would be nice if the Gnome and Ximian groups would focus on finishing out the basics before moving on to the next hot project.
It is almost humorous that I have a fully functioning spreadsheet app like Gnumeric and a Groupware solution like Evolution but my central control of the UI/System functions are lacking.
Lucas and Lucasfilms have become such outrageous merchandise whores they are like a parody unto themselves.
I will seriously have to hear some good review or word of mouth before I even bother seeing this next Star Wars fiasco with or without the BackOver Boys.
I have been let down to hard last time (I should have know better after Jedi "Ewoks and JarJar oh my!).
Linux vs everything....
on
SuSE 7.3 vs XP
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
I am not sure where these comparisons are going.
Each major operating system has its advantages and disadvantages depending on how it is implemented.
Listen there is no way I would want to move a brigade of secretaries over to Linux. I remember how much trouble my wife's law firm had getting those folks off of WordPerfect 5.2 for god's sake!
However, if I want a solid inexpensive server with lots of GUI tools to help me set things up then I go with Linux any day of the week. If I have a bunch of sysadmins, developers and geeks and I want to stop the endless bitching over the limits of WinNT as a desktop environment I tell them to install linux on their own and don't call IT when they screw it up. They love it. They get all the power they want and the corporate IT boys get a whole group of people they can tell to screw off when they call in for support.
Each OS has its own set of issues and strengths. Listen, if I had a rich aunt who never used a computer before and wanted to get on the internet I would tell her to get a mac.
Everything has its place. The trick is for Linux to clue in on its target audience of small server implementations and geek IT desktops.
The real place Linux needs to be on the desktop is in organizations that revolve around Unix.
I am not talking about the secretaries and the suits. Too many times I have seen programmers and even sysadmins fire up Windoze and then spend the rest of the day inside of a telnet window.
Linux distro folks are missing out on selling Linux to the world of Unix hacks whose organizations simply cannot afford a fleet of Unix workstations. Yes, I know the Sunblades are only $999 but Sun seems uninterested in advertising this fact and most IT orgs already have plenty of PCs so the cost of conversion is nothing.
The last place I worked the corporate IT side told engineering after much bitchin' and moaning that they could use Linux but they would get no support. All the folks programming for the web stuff and the complete systems engineering group went to RedHat.
Right now, I work for an organization about to move both software and systems engineering to SuSE linux the hold up being corporate buy-in.
You might not think this market is that large but think really hard about it. There are many IT groups that use Unix as their primary Server OS. Within those organizations they have many developers and admins who work primarily in those *Nix environments. If there was no market for these groups then companies like Exceed would have died years ago.
> What's with that "speaker" button on the dock that looks like it fell off a piece of Win 3.1 shareware?
It is ugly and it is the default mixer applet for Gnome. As you move the slider the color you refer to changes to in some way indicate volume.
>Also what's with that printer and the misaligned word Print"?
It is actually a kind of neat applet. If I am browsing my filesystem with the Filemanager I can drag a text file onto the Printer applet and it prints. It is easier than opening the thing up in an app to print.
>What's that turd thing in the upper right corner?
It is the running terminal app. The screenshot is kind of small for that sort of detail but the task list can be gotten from the upper right hand corner.
>"Why are their rivets on the menubar? Is that a grabber?
Yes it is. Detachable menus and such.
>Also the window controls (minimize etc) are just little blotches and are far too small and close together.
I like small titlebars. Trust me I can see some of your other points but that one is preference thing there are a zillion sawfish themes with various size title bars to choose from.
Next time you log in Doorman app will ask about setting your layout.
When the Doorman app asks you about what kind of layout choose CDE.
To get the menu bar up top you right click on the panel and choose a menu panel.
The background is in the KDE wallpaper dir/opt/kde2/share/wallpapers
The GTK theme is SuSE theme and the sawfish theme is DarkrmCalamari.
The file manager is obviously Nautilus and I got the emblems most of them from the Ximian-South theme but I made others myself. Emblems are those icons over my folders on the desktop.
I used the Teal Nautilus theme (every app in the universe has to be themable don't you know?).
Oh yes, I used the advanced Nautilus setting to have my home dir as my desktop
Since this is my work box I have LinNeighborhood set up on my Desktop that is what the Net directory is on my desktop.
I choose to have the mixer on my panel (it is one of the many applets you can have running on your panel and yes it does look ugly but its functional I wish there was a gamix connected mixer applet with a better default look) and the print applet because it is nice to just drag a text file over and have it print instead of having to open it up or go back to the command line and lpr the thing.
Finally I just choose a different icon for the terminal and the Suse menu. No special magic the SuSE menu icons is in the SuSE default/usr/X11/share/icons/png/48X48/apps (is that a path or what!) and the terminal is in the gnome default/opt/gnome/share/pixmaps.
Re:Lindows ripping off the crapiest UI in the worl
on
Lindows Reviewed
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· Score: 2
This is my work desktop.
I use my home dir as my desktop (I hate the seperate desktop and home folder convention).
I use Ximian Gnome, Nautilus as a my file manager, Galeon to browse and Evolution as my email client.
I use this desktop at work using StarOffice, and Gnumeric for Windoze file work.
I do not believe that any OS in the end-all as another person suggested. I am a configuration manager (Sysadmin and code work) for a Unix-based development company. It works for me.
http://bailes.home.mindspring.com/screen1.png
Lindows ripping off the crapiest UI in the world
on
Lindows Reviewed
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· Score: 3, Insightful
One of the reasons I fled the Windoze world was the crappy limited UI.
KDE can look like Windows (or half a dozen other OSes) or I like using Gnome's CDE panel layout with a Mac OS style thin menu up top which gives a similiar look OS X.
Why are we in the Linux community so damn intent on copying Windows. Everytime someone talks about Windows and its shortcomings the UI and its inconsistencies and oddities come up. However, when we as a community start building a Desktop environment everyone brags on the interfaces, desktops and even the distros that imitate the Evil freakin' Empire. If you like it so much then stay in your Windows world.
There are so many linux diehards that run linux on your servers and screw around with it occasionally but don't take the few hours on the side to set up a user interface and actually live with the OS 24/7 as your workstation.
I do live with it and once it is set up properly anyone including my wife can use it. The Distros need to hard look at moving the desktop interface, UI and user experience forward instead of blindly following the lead of Redmond.
Alpha Centauri (the full pack with the regular game and Alien Crossfire)
and
Myth II
I was hoping to get Heavy Gear II or Rune next.
Damn this bites so hard because of not only the great games but the progress in terms of ideas for developing games while living with an open-source community without pissing them off.
I was actually hoping the company would cut staff and such and go the mail-order/web sales route.
Some Mac Game porting companies lived that for awhile. This makes me so fucking sad.
The problem is I am an interface whore. I admit it, so there.
I want a unified look and feel to my application. I tried to find alternatives in WM or WINGs apps but had trouble with dependency issues Postillion with tk particularily and FSviewer was screaming for an older version of a library that has already been updated a zillion times.
GNUstep compile-all on core kept dying with what I think might be linker issues with the version Objective C I have on my box.
Like what another user said the older WindowMaker look and feel apps a lot of them anyway have not been updated in awhile. Other apps like GNUstep itself just barf probably because from the requirements SuSE comes with 2.95.3 gcc instead of gcc 3.0 and it will not compile against the/opt/experimental version I put on from SuSE's gcc3.0 rpm.
I have even thought of just running a bare bones sawfish windowmanager without the gnome stuff but have not gotten around to trying it on for size.
After all, right now I use mostly gtk+ apps. Just a preference BTW not a religious point of view (no pro-KDE flames please I know its advantages).
I ran WindowMaker for two years and had little trouble besides the fact it annoyed me that all the apps had a different look and feel.
I am getting tired of my Gnome and KDE. I am starting to long for the days when I used WindowMaker, Postilion and FSviewer together with a cobbled up list of other xapps to get my job done simply.
The problems are paramount. Fsviewer barely works on my updated SuSE 7.3 Postilion does not like my cutting edge versions of tcl/tk and I am not yet ready to give up the laundry list of apps I need to do business for a barebones environment. Plus, I like unified look and feel that I get with say KDE or Gnome.
If I got a distribution with a laundry list of apps centered around those apps with a Nextish look and feel then I would be a happy man.
The problem with Simply GNUstep is that it is what it says it is. It is Linux with GNUstep already built and configured but it has nothing else.
If it was supplemented with other X apps with a Next feel or gtk apps with a Next theme maybe into a usable package then I think I would be in love.
I was wondering what contributions of the OpenOffice group actually made it into StarOffice 6.0 beta? Did only contributions make it in or is 6.0 based off of OpenOffice code?
Also, will Sun try this year to combat the misconception that buying Sun means spending big bucks on hardware?
After all the $999 Netras and Sunblades have played well in Unix-only houses but the common IT professional still seems to think they have to beaucoup bucks to be a Sun house?
1. I have no problem with a priemum service offered for getting Ximian updates quick.
2. They want too much money for it. ($10 a month give me a break half that is enough) I would pay $5 dollars a month maybe.
3. You can get updates for most distributions (mine is SuSE and they offer updates direct from SuSE) so you can update your OS not just the Ximian GUI desktop.
Interesting model but unless they get some big corp to go for this I do not see tha basic Linux user buying into this.
Linux users will pay for CDs they find in stores to save them the time of download. However, I can't see many going for the service.
I am not sure if that is sad but its definetly true.
Ok this thread has been beaten to death so I post this at the risk of being moded down as redundant.
Sometimes with known issues you get a decent canned response from Microsoft Tech Support that makes sense. Got anything weird be prepared even with a fat service contract to wait on the phone until they find someone that has a clue.
I have no idea what level of service is attained by people using RedHat or SuSE or other commercial Linux service agreements but it seems to be the obivous solutions to enterprises needing a support contract to make them feel better.
In terms of IRC, I see little use. Random hobbyists telling newbies to RTFM while fumbling all over a straightforward Samba permissions question is not my idea of support. Sure, I was there to catch it once but most of the folks do not seem that savvy (trolling the wrong IRC discussions maybe?)
On the other hand, a google search on error messages almost always gives me a solution from one developers list or another. The problem is that if you can't find the answer from a google search or a Bugzilla search on one site or another you are freakin' stuck. It does not happen often but when it does you are screwed.
In the next generation of file managers the hard disk icon concept should go away.
Whether I am in KDE or Ximian Gnome, I always make my home dir my desktop. The place where I keep file IS my desktop and the problems with these concepts are thrown away. This is not a big issue.
Under Nautilus with my home dir designated as my desktop, I can right click and mount volumes that are not essentially part of my essential OS environment (removable media for example) keeping these things seperate makes sense.
One of the filesystem concepts I loved when I first got into the *Nixes was the idea that everything extends from root. If I have an NFS mounted file system from a system two buildings away it appeared to the end user as just another directory in their tree (No C:\ drives and D:\ drives etc...).
The man makes good points and these points are being addressed by people like the folks working on KDE and Gnome that give you the flexibility of NOT creating some extra space called the desktop that does not correspond with the rest of your file structure.
The idea of your home directory as your desktop (as the place where you keep your files) is one that works suprisingly well in a visual GUI format.
My wife with no big *Nix experience loves the idea because she does not have to go hunting for files she dragged to the desktop to organize them in her folders off the home dir or she can pick them right up off her desktop if she needs them.
This is an idea that is good for experienced and novice users.
I have always been torn over the whole KDE vs GNOME thing.
1. I like the look and feel of the GTK, GTK++ widgets better than the QT stuff.
2. KDE despite all the customizing tools available still feels far too Windoze like for my taste. Ximian Gnome especially with the Doorman option to do a CDE style destop is easily more Unix-like for old timers.
On the other hand:
1. KDE is more mature and offers a friendly widget set for programmers. I have heard more than a few programmers say that QT is much easier to deal with than GTK.
2. The maturity factor jumps out at you when you look at the Control Panel for KDE and the wealth of good solid apps available from the QT side of the programming fence.
I still use Ximian because quite frankly I like the way it looks and feels. Sure, I keep updating my system and hate the fact that my gnome splash screeen comes up with gnome-question icons because of a bug (it is in Bugzilla) but I love the way Nautilus lets me use my home directory as my desktop at the push of a button.
I hate this half ass smirking everything is fine because my machine works attitude. I love linux and Solaris and most *Nixes because it does what I tell it to and does not give me crap and I customize and automate everything.
I use Linux because I am a System Administrator, code monkey and an interface whore that loves customizing everything about their environment.
That being said there are still things that are too hard, not very straightforward about the process.
<i>They dont want to untar things
Why not? They unzip things.</i>
Most distros do not have the mime types worked out very well.
Once the user starts up their graphical File Manager Konquerer or Nautilus depending on if they do not go insane from all the choices at start up and just go back to windoze. They doubleclick on some tar or tar.gz file and boom nothing happens and they get an error. They do not know how to find add and get LnxZip going and they do not care.
<i>They do want to be able to plug stuff in (USB) and have it just work.
If I remember correctly, the last time I had trouble with USB was in the 2.2 series.:)</i>
You obviously have not tried to use a USB scanner besides that one Epson that is supposed to work perfect with Linux. I got a Umax 3400 and USBviewer sees it but getting sane or any other app to use it is impossible.
<i>they want easy access to the internet.&&they want a browser that works
Internet Access *is* easy (lots of graphical programs for dialup, and broadband/LAN stuff is as easy as one line on the console, easily put behind a pretty frontend (which already exist). Browsers? Opera, Mozilla, Konq, Netscape (gah), and Galeon all work very well.</i>
Give me a break. The browser thing is overblown sure but the Internet access is right on the money. Why in the world should there be 12 different programs for internet access kpp, gpp, wvdial, etc...etc.. and none of them set as a default and none with step by step instructions on how to get everything connected. It is annoying for the average schmuck.
<i>and above all they certainly do not want to have to recompile a kernel to upgrade their OS.
I'm not sure that's their biggest concern, but how hard is a kernel compile versus the installation of ME or XP? Initial learning curve is there, but it's not overly tough - you walk them through it once, and the procedure doesn't change from there on out. "Linux" doesn't waste cycles on anything; linux isn't like a company product that can really waste its time on something. If one person makes the system X bits easier for even a handful of people, and that change/program gets integrated into the consciousness (or kernel), it is not wasted. Nice troll, though.</i>
It is not a troll. I thought I was through with the kernel re-compiles after install until I had to go back to the old make menuconfig to add rio support and experimental support for my soundcard on the Dell Inspiron 4100. It was no big deal for me but my wife could not have done it. This is a woman who uses a computer everyday and works as a paralegal on office apps, database apps and a number of other apps at a power-user level.
If my wife can't handle it then the average user will not do it. Deal is I get a nice safe KDE environment all ready for here with Evolution for email, gaim, Opera and Mindspring in her menus or desktop and she is happy. To bad, most linux desktops don't come out that way without work.
For a newbie I am sorry but the choices available in terms of Window Managers and desktop environments is absolutely baffling and non-sensical to most end lusers and you can't blame them. Their lives do not revolve around the computers like mine.
The same choices we all love with Linux that give us flexibility and power confuse and frustrate the person that wants to use the computer as a simple tool not the end-all of their creative existence.
The Exchange connector costs money? So, what? As long as it keeps this company a float.
I use Ximian Gnome and Evolution as my email client exclusively and have been VERY impressed. Sure, it is fluff to get my Slashdot headlines through the app but I love the integration of my PIM and email functionality. It is solid and I have yet to hit many of the bugs other people have seen (maybe RedCarpet is good for something besides taking up desktop space).
The app performs well and looks good. Now, if they could just get Gnome itself to speed up then I would be a happy camper. I am about this far from going back to WindowMaker because Kde and Gnome feel so slow next to Wmaker on a quick Celeron running SuSE 7.2.
I have been lazy before with my linux box and let package management systems lay out files all over the freakin' place.
I have done things the "right" way (according to my mentor admin anyway:->) with my Solaris box and followed this standard:
/usr/bin - sh*t Sun put in.
Let pkgadd throw your basic gnu commands into:/usr/local/bin
Compile from source all major apps and services Database services, Web Servers etc...etc.. and put them into/opt:
/opt/daftname
symlink any executable needed by users into/usr/local/bin
(if you think like a sysadmin you realize most users do not need to automatically run most services)
Any commercial software goes to/opt and put the damn symlink in/usr/local/bin.
Yes, it is extra work but it keeps you PATH short and fat and your users happy. This is not a problem with distros or package management systems as much as it is an issue of poor system administration.
I also understand it is a mixed approach with some things put under seperate directory structures for each program and some things in a comman/usr/local base.
Common users do NOT need access to the Oracle or Samba bin. Give them a symlink to sqlplus and they are happy. Even though it is mixed if you stay consistent across all your boxes then the users are happy.
I understand it is tough but we have control in *nixes to put things where we want the deal is to use it.
I do not what prompts such silly bitterness but you must work in a really cruddy place. Like most people have said the people that read slashdot and userfriendly and such things do so because they love technology, computers, *nixes and the code.
From my user profile here at Slashdot:
I dream of big machines multi-processor server beasts. I fall asleep to the soothing whirr of RAID arrays grinding in the background. Endless lines of monotous code fill my head as I down one too many Jolts with the coffee cup still on my desk. I hold onto the mouse like a lifeline because it is. This is what I always wanted. This is what I got. I am not afraid.
It is very exciting to see to see a new version of this classic. I have to respect said creator (Sid the Man) for doing other things like Alpha Centauri and Gettysburg (awesome game).
What is intriguing is that they did not throw a few short movies and 3D graphics on top of this venerable turn-based classic and call it a new game. Some of the dynamics mentioned by the author make this sound like an awesome game.
So it sounds like the time for a new poll. I have a Win ME partition that I kept on my Dell 4100 just for playing games because VMware would not let me install Red Alert II from CD (the error is unimportant here but it related directly to the use of a virtual machine).
Anyway, the poll is how many people still have Windows machines for playing games? How many still have Winblows partitions for playing games?
How many people live comfortable running their games on VMware, Wine etc..?
Slashdot Mirror
Does it seem that the distributed effort used for the Mono project might be better used in actually creating a Ximian desktop that works out of the box as easily as KDE?
_ __
It just seems that there a lot of Gnome/Ximian based efforts that need to be finished first before Gnome 2.0 gets out the door onto distributions and people start fussing about what is missing. Like what?
Well, Ximian needs to finish out the Ximian Setup project for one. It would be very nice to have set up tools for a desktop that work in any distro . For the hardcore command line folks this is no big deal but for that desktop push it is very important and if done well would take away a lot of divergent wasted effort by distro makers in creating a dozen or so different ideas of how to do set up administration tools.
At least, I will say that we as a community are not ignoring the threat of the Internet becoming standardized around Redmond and the C# stuff.
However, it would be nice if the Gnome and Ximian groups would focus on finishing out the basics before moving on to the next hot project.
It is almost humorous that I have a fully functioning spreadsheet app like Gnumeric and a Groupware solution like Evolution but my central control of the UI/System functions are lacking.
Maybe this is coming Gnome2.0 and I hope so.
_______________________________________________
but can you say silly freakin' loser bait crap?
_ __
Yeah, I thought you could.
Lucas and Lucasfilms have become such outrageous merchandise whores they are like a parody unto themselves.
I will seriously have to hear some good review or word of mouth before I even bother seeing this next Star Wars fiasco with or without the BackOver Boys.
I have been let down to hard last time (I should have know better after Jedi "Ewoks and JarJar oh my!).
_______________________________________________
I am not sure where these comparisons are going.
_ __
Each major operating system has its advantages and disadvantages depending on how it is implemented.
Listen there is no way I would want to move a brigade of secretaries over to Linux. I remember how much trouble my wife's law firm had getting those folks off of WordPerfect 5.2 for god's sake!
However, if I want a solid inexpensive server with lots of GUI tools to help me set things up then I go with Linux any day of the week. If I have a bunch of sysadmins, developers and geeks and I want to stop the endless bitching over the limits of WinNT as a desktop environment I tell them to install linux on their own and don't call IT when they screw it up. They love it. They get all the power they want and the corporate IT boys get a whole group of people they can tell to screw off when they call in for support.
Each OS has its own set of issues and strengths. Listen, if I had a rich aunt who never used a computer before and wanted to get on the internet I would tell her to get a mac.
Everything has its place. The trick is for Linux to clue in on its target audience of small server implementations and geek IT desktops.
_______________________________________________
The real place Linux needs to be on the desktop is in organizations that revolve around Unix.
_ __
I am not talking about the secretaries and the suits. Too many times I have seen programmers and even sysadmins fire up Windoze and then spend the rest of the day inside of a telnet window.
Linux distro folks are missing out on selling Linux to the world of Unix hacks whose organizations simply cannot afford a fleet of Unix workstations. Yes, I know the Sunblades are only $999 but Sun seems uninterested in advertising this fact and most IT orgs already have plenty of PCs so the cost of conversion is nothing.
The last place I worked the corporate IT side told engineering after much bitchin' and moaning that they could use Linux but they would get no support. All the folks programming for the web stuff and the complete systems engineering group went to RedHat.
Right now, I work for an organization about to move both software and systems engineering to SuSE linux the hold up being corporate buy-in.
You might not think this market is that large but think really hard about it. There are many IT groups that use Unix as their primary Server OS. Within those organizations they have many developers and admins who work primarily in those *Nix environments. If there was no market for these groups then companies like Exceed would have died years ago.
_______________________________________________
> What's with that "speaker" button on the dock that looks like it fell off a piece of Win 3.1 shareware?
_ __
It is ugly and it is the default mixer applet for Gnome. As you move the slider the color you refer to changes to in some way indicate volume.
>Also what's with that printer and the misaligned word Print"?
It is actually a kind of neat applet. If I am browsing my filesystem with the Filemanager I can drag a text file onto the Printer applet and it prints. It is easier than opening the thing up in an app to print.
>What's that turd thing in the upper right corner?
It is the running terminal app. The screenshot is kind of small for that sort of detail but the task list can be gotten from the upper right hand corner.
>"Why are their rivets on the menubar? Is that a grabber?
Yes it is. Detachable menus and such.
>Also the window controls (minimize etc) are just little blotches and are far too small and close together.
I like small titlebars. Trust me I can see some of your other points but that one is preference thing there are a zillion sawfish themes with various size title bars to choose from.
_______________________________________________
Install SuSe 7.3.
/opt/kde2/share/wallpapers
/usr/X11/share/icons/png/48X48/apps (is that a path or what!) and the terminal is in the gnome default /opt/gnome/share/pixmaps.
_ __
Install Ximian Gnome.
Next time you log in Doorman app will ask about setting your layout.
When the Doorman app asks you about what kind of layout choose CDE.
To get the menu bar up top you right click on the panel and choose a menu panel.
The background is in the KDE wallpaper dir
The GTK theme is SuSE theme and the sawfish theme is DarkrmCalamari.
The file manager is obviously Nautilus and I got the emblems most of them from the Ximian-South theme but I made others myself. Emblems are those icons over my folders on the desktop.
I used the Teal Nautilus theme (every app in the universe has to be themable don't you know?).
Oh yes, I used the advanced Nautilus setting to have my home dir as my desktop
Since this is my work box I have LinNeighborhood set up on my Desktop that is what the Net directory is on my desktop.
I choose to have the mixer on my panel (it is one of the many applets you can have running on your panel and yes it does look ugly but its functional I wish there was a gamix connected mixer applet with a better default look) and the print applet because it is nice to just drag a text file over and have it print instead of having to open it up or go back to the command line and lpr the thing.
Finally I just choose a different icon for the terminal and the Suse menu. No special magic the SuSE menu icons is in the SuSE default
_______________________________________________
I will no longer be able to design my software to install in /usr/local//bin/
if I wanted it included in a major distro?
Or does that mean that the distros will have to adapt the software to the standard?
Check out a real screenshot.
My Desktop
This is my work desktop.
I use my home dir as my desktop (I hate the seperate desktop and home folder convention).
I use Ximian Gnome, Nautilus as a my file manager, Galeon to browse and Evolution as my email client.
I use this desktop at work using StarOffice, and Gnumeric for Windoze file work.
I do not believe that any OS in the end-all as another person suggested. I am a configuration manager (Sysadmin and code work) for a Unix-based development company. It works for me.
http://bailes.home.mindspring.com/screen1.png
One of the reasons I fled the Windoze world was the crappy limited UI.
_ __
KDE can look like Windows (or half a dozen other OSes) or I like using Gnome's CDE panel layout with a Mac OS style thin menu up top which gives a similiar look OS X.
Why are we in the Linux community so damn intent on copying Windows. Everytime someone talks about Windows and its shortcomings the UI and its inconsistencies and oddities come up. However, when we as a community start building a Desktop environment everyone brags on the interfaces, desktops and even the distros that imitate the Evil freakin' Empire. If you like it so much then stay in your Windows world.
There are so many linux diehards that run linux on your servers and screw around with it occasionally but don't take the few hours on the side to set up a user interface and actually live with the OS 24/7 as your workstation.
I do live with it and once it is set up properly anyone including my wife can use it. The Distros need to hard look at moving the desktop interface, UI and user experience forward instead of blindly following the lead of Redmond.
_______________________________________________
Listen I own two of their games.
_ _
Alpha Centauri (the full pack with the regular game and Alien Crossfire)
and
Myth II
I was hoping to get Heavy Gear II or Rune next.
Damn this bites so hard because of not only the great games but the progress in terms of ideas for developing games while living with an open-source community without pissing them off.
I was actually hoping the company would cut staff and such and go the mail-order/web sales route.
Some Mac Game porting companies lived that for awhile. This makes me so fucking sad.
_______________________________________________
The problem is I am an interface whore. I admit it, so there.
/opt/experimental version I put on from SuSE's gcc3.0 rpm.
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I want a unified look and feel to my application. I tried to find alternatives in WM or WINGs apps but had trouble with dependency issues Postillion with tk particularily and FSviewer was screaming for an older version of a library that has already been updated a zillion times.
GNUstep compile-all on core kept dying with what I think might be linker issues with the version Objective C I have on my box.
Like what another user said the older WindowMaker look and feel apps a lot of them anyway have not been updated in awhile. Other apps like GNUstep itself just barf probably because from the requirements SuSE comes with 2.95.3 gcc instead of gcc 3.0 and it will not compile against the
I have even thought of just running a bare bones sawfish windowmanager without the gnome stuff but have not gotten around to trying it on for size.
After all, right now I use mostly gtk+ apps. Just a preference BTW not a religious point of view (no pro-KDE flames please I know its advantages).
I ran WindowMaker for two years and had little trouble besides the fact it annoyed me that all the apps had a different look and feel.
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This is almost what I want.
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I am getting tired of my Gnome and KDE. I am starting to long for the days when I used WindowMaker, Postilion and FSviewer together with a cobbled up list of other xapps to get my job done simply.
The problems are paramount. Fsviewer barely works on my updated SuSE 7.3 Postilion does not like my cutting edge versions of tcl/tk and I am not yet ready to give up the laundry list of apps I need to do business for a barebones environment. Plus, I like unified look and feel that I get with say KDE or Gnome.
If I got a distribution with a laundry list of apps centered around those apps with a Nextish look and feel then I would be a happy man.
The problem with Simply GNUstep is that it is what it says it is. It is Linux with GNUstep already built and configured but it has nothing else.
If it was supplemented with other X apps with a Next feel or gtk apps with a Next theme maybe into a usable package then I think I would be in love.
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I was wondering what contributions of the OpenOffice group actually made it into StarOffice 6.0 beta? Did only contributions make it in or is 6.0 based off of OpenOffice code?
Also, will Sun try this year to combat the misconception that buying Sun means spending big bucks on hardware?
After all the $999 Netras and Sunblades have played well in Unix-only houses but the common IT professional still seems to think they have to beaucoup bucks to be a Sun house?
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The game I have had the most fun with has to be Shogo:MAD.
No, it did not have the most up to date engine.
No, it was not the most original idea in the world.
However, it was mad fun to play. The playability of the game was superb and the linux from whatever transfer was excellent.
Kudos to Hyperion Software.
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1. I have no problem with a priemum service offered for getting Ximian updates quick.
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2. They want too much money for it. ($10 a month give me a break half that is enough) I would pay $5 dollars a month maybe.
3. You can get updates for most distributions (mine is SuSE and they offer updates direct from SuSE) so you can update your OS not just the Ximian GUI desktop.
Interesting model but unless they get some big corp to go for this I do not see tha basic Linux user buying into this.
Linux users will pay for CDs they find in stores to save them the time of download. However, I can't see many going for the service.
I am not sure if that is sad but its definetly true.
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Ok this thread has been beaten to death so I post this at the risk of being moded down as redundant.
Sometimes with known issues you get a decent canned response from Microsoft Tech Support that makes sense. Got anything weird be prepared even with a fat service contract to wait on the phone until they find someone that has a clue.
I have no idea what level of service is attained by people using RedHat or SuSE or other commercial Linux service agreements but it seems to be the obivous solutions to enterprises needing a support contract to make them feel better.
In terms of IRC, I see little use. Random hobbyists telling newbies to RTFM while fumbling all over a straightforward Samba permissions question is not my idea of support. Sure, I was there to catch it once but most of the folks do not seem that savvy (trolling the wrong IRC discussions maybe?)
On the other hand, a google search on error messages almost always gives me a solution from one developers list or another. The problem is that if you can't find the answer from a google search or a Bugzilla search on one site or another you are freakin' stuck. It does not happen often but when it does you are screwed.
IMHO and all that crap.
In the next generation of file managers the hard disk icon concept should go away.
Whether I am in KDE or Ximian Gnome, I always make my home dir my desktop. The place where I keep file IS my desktop and the problems with these concepts are thrown away. This is not a big issue.
Under Nautilus with my home dir designated as my desktop, I can right click and mount volumes that are not essentially part of my essential OS environment (removable media for example) keeping these things seperate makes sense.
One of the filesystem concepts I loved when I first got into the *Nixes was the idea that everything extends from root. If I have an NFS mounted file system from a system two buildings away it appeared to the end user as just another directory in their tree (No C:\ drives and D:\ drives etc...).
The man makes good points and these points are being addressed by people like the folks working on KDE and Gnome that give you the flexibility of NOT creating some extra space called the desktop that does not correspond with the rest of your file structure.
The idea of your home directory as your desktop (as the place where you keep your files) is one that works suprisingly well in a visual GUI format.
My wife with no big *Nix experience loves the idea because she does not have to go hunting for files she dragged to the desktop to organize them in her folders off the home dir or she can pick them right up off her desktop if she needs them.
This is an idea that is good for experienced and novice users.
I have always been torn over the whole KDE vs GNOME thing.
1. I like the look and feel of the GTK, GTK++ widgets better than the QT stuff.
2. KDE despite all the customizing tools available still feels far too Windoze like for my taste. Ximian Gnome especially with the Doorman option to do a CDE style destop is easily more Unix-like for old timers.
On the other hand:
1. KDE is more mature and offers a friendly widget set for programmers. I have heard more than a few programmers say that QT is much easier to deal with than GTK.
2. The maturity factor jumps out at you when you look at the Control Panel for KDE and the wealth of good solid apps available from the QT side of the programming fence.
I still use Ximian because quite frankly I like the way it looks and feels. Sure, I keep updating my system and hate the fact that my gnome splash screeen comes up with gnome-question icons because of a bug (it is in Bugzilla) but I love the way Nautilus lets me use my home directory as my desktop at the push of a button.
I hate this half ass smirking everything is fine because my machine works attitude. I love linux and Solaris and most *Nixes because it does what I tell it to and does not give me crap and I customize and automate everything.
:)</i>
I use Linux because I am a System Administrator, code monkey and an interface whore that loves customizing everything about their environment.
That being said there are still things that are too hard, not very straightforward about the process.
<i>They dont want to untar things
Why not? They unzip things.</i>
Most distros do not have the mime types worked out very well.
Once the user starts up their graphical File Manager Konquerer or Nautilus depending on if they do not go insane from all the choices at start up and just go back to windoze. They doubleclick on some tar or tar.gz file and boom nothing happens and they get an error. They do not know how to find add and get LnxZip going and they do not care.
<i>They do want to be able to plug stuff in (USB) and have it just work.
If I remember correctly, the last time I had trouble with USB was in the 2.2 series.
You obviously have not tried to use a USB scanner besides that one Epson that is supposed to work perfect with Linux. I got a Umax 3400 and USBviewer sees it but getting sane or any other app to use it is impossible.
<i>they want easy access to the internet.&&they want a browser that works
Internet Access *is* easy (lots of graphical programs for dialup, and broadband/LAN stuff is as easy as one line on the console, easily put behind a pretty frontend (which already exist). Browsers? Opera, Mozilla, Konq, Netscape (gah), and Galeon all work very well.</i>
Give me a break. The browser thing is overblown sure but the Internet access is right on the money. Why in the world should there be 12 different programs for internet access kpp, gpp, wvdial, etc...etc.. and none of them set as a default and none with step by step instructions on how to get everything connected. It is annoying for the average schmuck.
<i>and above all they certainly do not want to have to recompile a kernel to upgrade their OS.
I'm not sure that's their biggest concern, but how hard is a kernel compile versus the installation of ME or XP? Initial learning curve is there, but it's not overly tough - you walk them through it once, and the procedure doesn't change from there on out. "Linux" doesn't waste cycles on anything; linux isn't like a company product that can really waste its time on something. If one person makes the system X bits easier for even a handful of people, and that change/program gets integrated into the consciousness (or kernel), it is not wasted. Nice troll, though.</i>
It is not a troll. I thought I was through with the kernel re-compiles after install until I had to go back to the old make menuconfig to add rio support and experimental support for my soundcard on the Dell Inspiron 4100. It was no big deal for me but my wife could not have done it. This is a woman who uses a computer everyday and works as a paralegal on office apps, database apps and a number of other apps at a power-user level.
If my wife can't handle it then the average user will not do it. Deal is I get a nice safe KDE environment all ready for here with Evolution for email, gaim, Opera and Mindspring in her menus or desktop and she is happy. To bad, most linux desktops don't come out that way without work.
For a newbie I am sorry but the choices available in terms of Window Managers and desktop environments is absolutely baffling and non-sensical to most end lusers and you can't blame them. Their lives do not revolve around the computers like mine.
The same choices we all love with Linux that give us flexibility and power confuse and frustrate the person that wants to use the computer as a simple tool not the end-all of their creative existence.
The Exchange connector costs money? So, what? As long as it keeps this company a float.
I use Ximian Gnome and Evolution as my email client exclusively and have been VERY impressed. Sure, it is fluff to get my Slashdot headlines through the app but I love the integration of my PIM and email functionality. It is solid and I have yet to hit many of the bugs other people have seen (maybe RedCarpet is good for something besides taking up desktop space).
The app performs well and looks good. Now, if they could just get Gnome itself to speed up then I would be a happy camper. I am about this far from going back to WindowMaker because Kde and Gnome feel so slow next to Wmaker on a quick Celeron running SuSE 7.2.
I have been lazy before with my linux box and let package management systems lay out files all over the freakin' place.
:->) with my Solaris box and followed this standard:
/usr/local/bin
/opt:
/usr/local/bin
/opt and put the damn symlink in /usr/local/bin.
/usr/local base.
I have done things the "right" way (according to my mentor admin anyway
/usr/bin - sh*t Sun put in.
Let pkgadd throw your basic gnu commands into:
Compile from source all major apps and services Database services, Web Servers etc...etc.. and put them into
/opt/daftname
symlink any executable needed by users into
(if you think like a sysadmin you realize most users do not need to automatically run most services)
Any commercial software goes to
Yes, it is extra work but it keeps you PATH short and fat and your users happy. This is not a problem with distros or package management systems as much as it is an issue of poor system administration.
I also understand it is a mixed approach with some things put under seperate directory structures for each program and some things in a comman
Common users do NOT need access to the Oracle or Samba bin. Give them a symlink to sqlplus and they are happy. Even though it is mixed if you stay consistent across all your boxes then the users are happy.
I understand it is tough but we have control in *nixes to put things where we want the deal is to use it.
PATH=/usr/bin:/usr/ucb:/usr/local/bin:.
export PATH
All a regular user needs.
I just moved over to this Reiserfs a couple of months ago. I like it and all but is ext3 better or faster. Faster is always better.
I do not what prompts such silly bitterness but you must work in a really cruddy place. Like most people have said the people that read slashdot and userfriendly and such things do so because they love technology, computers, *nixes and the code.
From my user profile here at Slashdot:
I dream of big machines multi-processor server beasts. I fall asleep to the soothing whirr of RAID arrays grinding in the background. Endless lines of monotous code fill my head as I down one too many Jolts with the coffee cup still on my desk. I hold onto the mouse like a lifeline because it is. This is what I always wanted. This is what I got. I am not afraid.
It is very exciting to see to see a new version of this classic. I have to respect said creator (Sid the Man) for doing other things like Alpha Centauri and Gettysburg (awesome game).
What is intriguing is that they did not throw a few short movies and 3D graphics on top of this venerable turn-based classic and call it a new game. Some of the dynamics mentioned by the author make this sound like an awesome game.
So it sounds like the time for a new poll. I have a Win ME partition that I kept on my Dell 4100 just for playing games because VMware would not let me install Red Alert II from CD (the error is unimportant here but it related directly to the use of a virtual machine).
Anyway, the poll is how many people still have Windows machines for playing games? How many still have Winblows partitions for playing games?
How many people live comfortable running their games on VMware, Wine etc..?