... or you live outside the US and know that scary propaganda on home shopping networks isn't true.
The bugs won't kill you. Keep using your wooden/plastic cutting board. Excessive cleaning leads to (as in "is responsible for") a number of diseases like asthma and allergies.
I want it all - and I want it in one device. There's nothing negative about using my phone as an mp3-player, camera, notes-taker, email client, games system, web client etc. It's only good.
You can't sell something to someone who can get it for themselves for free.
Of course you can. I'd very much like to go to one central place for music, movie and tv-series downloads where I know the quality of the content and that I indeed support the ones producing it. I'll happily pay for such a service.
Not everyone here on Slashdot is 14 and thinks free downloads are cool.
Home PC users do not need to generate traffic on port 25 that's going anywhere other than their ISP's mailserver.
Yes we do. I like my own SMTP-server a lot better than my ISPs, and one of the reasons is that I can trust the SSL SMTP encryption when I know my endpoints. That's not possible when going through my ISPs SMTP-server.
We're having a blast with Four Swords in single player mode... it's very old school Zelda but updated to play differently (levels). Absolutely love it!
... and JVC makes Blueray-discs that have a normal DVD layer as well and can be read in normal DVD-players. Backwards compatible manufacturing exists for HD-DVD as well, but until quite recently it didn't for Blueray, which was seen as negative.
Paper Mario 2 is a lot more different to Paper Mario than Madden XXXX is to Madden XXXY - right? That's my argument. Same goes to Super Mario Sunshine being very different to Mario 64, Mario Kart DD playing extremely different to Mario Kart 64 etc.
Why not? The games are a lot more fun to play on the cube - and if you NEED gore you can always play Resident Evil 4.
Seriously, I don't understand what makes people play the same old stuff over and over again (inset any racing game or sports game here) instead of playing stuff that's FUN. Paper Mario 2, as an example.
Oh well, I guess I'm just too kiddie (>30yo) for the Xbox...
I'd say the "integration" has gotten worse:/ I'm used to right-clicking on the systray icon and selecting "Open document". That's completely gone - or is there a setting that'll bring it back?
The stuff off the internet is usually at best described as low quality with choppy motion, questionable sound and video artifacts from the compression schemes used.
Absolute bollocks. 1.4Gb XviD, DVD-R rips or HRHD (that high definition rips in high resolution off HDTV) are sometimes _better_ quality than national TV in many countries - and HRHD rips rival _anything_ available to buy here in Europe (while still being playable in HDTV resolutions with an Xbox and a projector/plasma/lcd-tv).
Why buy something of lesser quality when you can download something that actually makes use of the expensive toys you bought?
Since all the facts you need have already been posted, this is how I'll end this.
1) I'm one of the "Xbox hackers". There's nothing you can teach me on how the security works in it. I say you're wrong in your beliefs on how it works, and I'm the only source needed for that statement.
2) I work for a cellphone manufacturer, as a software developer on the operating system. When I make statements on how DRM could work (_could_ since I'll never disclose actual facts from my employer) I'm also the only source needed on what can and cannot be done - especially since I am considered quite knowledgeable when it comes to security/crypto.
To crack the Xbox, without the bugs we found in their implementation, you'd need either a break in the algorithms used or you'd need access to the private RSA signing key - or - you'd need hardware that's extremely expensive and that could read 1s and 0s from the MCPX. That's a factual statement, deal with it.
You're correct in that you'll always be able to make analog copies of music and movies. That's irrelevant, the DRM industry isn't seriously trying to stop you since those copies are considered degraded. When there's a possibility for non-degraded copies, you'll see (again) the industry turning to hardware, like the "no broadcast" flag or whatever they call it. In the end, we'll always come back to DRM being protected by the fact that reading 1s and 0s from hardened chips is extremely expensive, thus it's not beneficial for "pirates" to do it on all sorts of electronic equipment.
You're wrong about the Xbox, it's as simple as that. Read up on the subject before you try to correct one of the persons who did indeed break it. You can not replace the ROM-chip since it's protected by a hash (i.e, your replacement won't execute) and the key used to check the hash is inside one of those chips that's EXTREMELY expensive to open up and read the bits from. And no, people don't have that kind if equipment laying around.
at some point you have to be able to actually hear the damn music. Meaning that at that moment, you will have everything needed to decrypt the song... and if you don't have control of the execution environment this doesn't help you at all - and that means we're back to where we started.
If you can read the memorystick, then you can try attacking the encryption directly. If the memory stick doesn't actually contain the decryption key (say it's in the phone), then you can disassemble the phone, hook it up to a chip reader, and find/extract the decryption key.
The encryption is too strong, and your second argument is exactly the same as I brought up - it costs way too much to extract the key from the actual black box chips.
You can hack the XBox up down and sideways without the private key
As I've already written, only because we found bugs in their crypto implementation. If those hadn't been there, you would've needed the private key.
I'm sorry that you thought my post contained nonsense, but I cannot see that anything you wrote supports that statement.
I recommend any beginners book in crypto - most of what you wrote above is utter nonsense.
*) No, you can not extract the keys before you reflash your phone. You do not have the possibility to run code on the phone to do it.
*) No, you cannot hash the image. You do not have the code used when hashing
*) No, you can not issue another private key. It will not create signatures the Xbox will accept. No one does it.
*) The public key is not easily accessed within the Xbox, and even if it were it doesn't help you at all.... the give away is that you seriously suggest that to de-DRM the Xbox you first mod it. Silly - I wrote in the beginning that just because we found a few bugs in Microsoft's implementation it doesn't mean the _method_ is wrong. Without those bugs you wouldn't be able to mod the Xbox - thus you wouldn't be able to circumvent the DRM.
DRM exists, protected by the fact that it's economically not feasible to use multi million (billion?) machines to extract keys from.. cellphones, computers and videogames.
You're free to not believe me, of course. You're wrong anyway.
I'm sorry that you don't believe that I know what I'm talking about. I'm very well aware that you could hack smartcards by measuring changes in current/voltage/timing when probing them (you could also clock-glitch them). That in itself has very little to do with what I talked about.
The equipment needed to read out the bits from current "black boxes" is extremely expensive.
Please tell me how you'll be able to extract the information from your memorystick when you just reflashed your phone, erasing the cryptographic key needed to decrypt the content.
We're back to you being able to run software on your phone, while still being able to access the key. To do that, you probably need to circumvent the cryptographic checks that are in place to see if the software you're trying to run/flash is signed with the correct key.
So, again. Please tell me the private signing key used for signing Xbox games. That we found bugs in the Microsoft implementation (bunnie found a key travelling in cleartext, myself and Franz found out they used TEA for hashing which it's not good for) only means that that implementation wasn't good enough - a new one might be.
In the end you'll discover that you need to extract 1s and 0s from a physical chip with LOTS of security in place - security which will cost you a shitload (and I really mean it) of money to build equipment to circumvent.
Slashdot Mirror
... or you live outside the US and know that scary propaganda on home shopping networks isn't true.
The bugs won't kill you. Keep using your wooden/plastic cutting board. Excessive cleaning leads to (as in "is responsible for") a number of diseases like asthma and allergies.
Bla bla bla
I want it all - and I want it in one device. There's nothing negative about using my phone as an mp3-player, camera, notes-taker, email client, games system, web client etc. It's only good.
Yes I work for a cell phone manufacturer.
You can't sell something to someone who can get it for themselves for free.
Of course you can. I'd very much like to go to one central place for music, movie and tv-series downloads where I know the quality of the content and that I indeed support the ones producing it. I'll happily pay for such a service.
Not everyone here on Slashdot is 14 and thinks free downloads are cool.
Home PC users do not need to generate traffic on port 25 that's going anywhere other than their ISP's mailserver.
Yes we do. I like my own SMTP-server a lot better than my ISPs, and one of the reasons is that I can trust the SSL SMTP encryption when I know my endpoints. That's not possible when going through my ISPs SMTP-server.
We're having a blast with Four Swords in single player mode ... it's very old school Zelda but updated to play differently (levels). Absolutely love it!
Not in Sweden. Any evidence is allowed, even if you had a search warrant for something completely different etc.
Scary.
Fix your mime-types on .torrent files.
... and JVC makes Blueray-discs that have a normal DVD layer as well and can be read in normal DVD-players. Backwards compatible manufacturing exists for HD-DVD as well, but until quite recently it didn't for Blueray, which was seen as negative.
link
Nintendo makes money on their consoles - Microsoft not. Which one is doing well?
We have the same situation in Sweden - and it seems it will end come July 1st. That's when _downloading_ will become illegal (uploading already is).
Rest assured, it'll happen to Canada as well. Corporations buy politicians.
Paper Mario 2 is a lot more different to Paper Mario than Madden XXXX is to Madden XXXY - right? That's my argument. Same goes to Super Mario Sunshine being very different to Mario 64, Mario Kart DD playing extremely different to Mario Kart 64 etc.
Don't let the names confuse you - play the games.
Why not? The games are a lot more fun to play on the cube - and if you NEED gore you can always play Resident Evil 4.
...
Seriously, I don't understand what makes people play the same old stuff over and over again (inset any racing game or sports game here) instead of playing stuff that's FUN. Paper Mario 2, as an example.
Oh well, I guess I'm just too kiddie (>30yo) for the Xbox
I'd say the "integration" has gotten worse :/ I'm used to right-clicking on the systray icon and selecting "Open document". That's completely gone - or is there a setting that'll bring it back?
The stuff off the internet is usually at best described as low quality with choppy motion, questionable sound and video artifacts from the compression schemes used.
Absolute bollocks. 1.4Gb XviD, DVD-R rips or HRHD (that high definition rips in high resolution off HDTV) are sometimes _better_ quality than national TV in many countries - and HRHD rips rival _anything_ available to buy here in Europe (while still being playable in HDTV resolutions with an Xbox and a projector/plasma/lcd-tv).
Why buy something of lesser quality when you can download something that actually makes use of the expensive toys you bought?
If they used BitTorrent they most probably uploaded as well.
*smile*
Feel free to come back when you've find the first device that proves my point.
You will find it.
Why did you post this? Do you think I've been advocating DRM?
On the contrary. I've just stated that the "everything can be hacked" mentality is wrong, and described technically how that can be.
You seem to have a weird obession about this.
Since all the facts you need have already been posted, this is how I'll end this.
1) I'm one of the "Xbox hackers". There's nothing you can teach me on how the security works in it. I say you're wrong in your beliefs on how it works, and I'm the only source needed for that statement.
2) I work for a cellphone manufacturer, as a software developer on the operating system. When I make statements on how DRM could work (_could_ since I'll never disclose actual facts from my employer) I'm also the only source needed on what can and cannot be done - especially since I am considered quite knowledgeable when it comes to security/crypto.
To crack the Xbox, without the bugs we found in their implementation, you'd need either a break in the algorithms used or you'd need access to the private RSA signing key - or - you'd need hardware that's extremely expensive and that could read 1s and 0s from the MCPX. That's a factual statement, deal with it.
You're correct in that you'll always be able to make analog copies of music and movies. That's irrelevant, the DRM industry isn't seriously trying to stop you since those copies are considered degraded. When there's a possibility for non-degraded copies, you'll see (again) the industry turning to hardware, like the "no broadcast" flag or whatever they call it. In the end, we'll always come back to DRM being protected by the fact that reading 1s and 0s from hardened chips is extremely expensive, thus it's not beneficial for "pirates" to do it on all sorts of electronic equipment.
You're wrong about the Xbox, it's as simple as that. Read up on the subject before you try to correct one of the persons who did indeed break it. You can not replace the ROM-chip since it's protected by a hash (i.e, your replacement won't execute) and the key used to check the hash is inside one of those chips that's EXTREMELY expensive to open up and read the bits from. And no, people don't have that kind if equipment laying around.
... and if you don't have control of the execution environment this doesn't help you at all - and that means we're back to where we started.
at some point you have to be able to actually hear the damn music. Meaning that at that moment, you will have everything needed to decrypt the song
Both your statements above are false. Why do you insist on stating things that aren't true? What do you think you're gaining from it?
If you can read the memorystick, then you can try attacking the encryption directly. If the memory stick doesn't actually contain the decryption key (say it's in the phone), then you can disassemble the phone, hook it up to a chip reader, and find/extract the decryption key.
The encryption is too strong, and your second argument is exactly the same as I brought up - it costs way too much to extract the key from the actual black box chips.
You can hack the XBox up down and sideways without the private key
As I've already written, only because we found bugs in their crypto implementation. If those hadn't been there, you would've needed the private key.
I'm sorry that you thought my post contained nonsense, but I cannot see that anything you wrote supports that statement.
I recommend any beginners book in crypto - most of what you wrote above is utter nonsense.
... the give away is that you seriously suggest that to de-DRM the Xbox you first mod it. Silly - I wrote in the beginning that just because we found a few bugs in Microsoft's implementation it doesn't mean the _method_ is wrong. Without those bugs you wouldn't be able to mod the Xbox - thus you wouldn't be able to circumvent the DRM.
.. cellphones, computers and videogames.
*) No, you can not extract the keys before you reflash your phone. You do not have the possibility to run code on the phone to do it.
*) No, you cannot hash the image. You do not have the code used when hashing
*) No, you can not issue another private key. It will not create signatures the Xbox will accept. No one does it.
*) The public key is not easily accessed within the Xbox, and even if it were it doesn't help you at all.
DRM exists, protected by the fact that it's economically not feasible to use multi million (billion?) machines to extract keys from
You're free to not believe me, of course. You're wrong anyway.
I'm sorry that you don't believe that I know what I'm talking about. I'm very well aware that you could hack smartcards by measuring changes in current/voltage/timing when probing them (you could also clock-glitch them). That in itself has very little to do with what I talked about.
The equipment needed to read out the bits from current "black boxes" is extremely expensive.
Please tell me how you'll be able to extract the information from your memorystick when you just reflashed your phone, erasing the cryptographic key needed to decrypt the content.
We're back to you being able to run software on your phone, while still being able to access the key. To do that, you probably need to circumvent the cryptographic checks that are in place to see if the software you're trying to run/flash is signed with the correct key.
So, again. Please tell me the private signing key used for signing Xbox games. That we found bugs in the Microsoft implementation (bunnie found a key travelling in cleartext, myself and Franz found out they used TEA for hashing which it's not good for) only means that that implementation wasn't good enough - a new one might be.
In the end you'll discover that you need to extract 1s and 0s from a physical chip with LOTS of security in place - security which will cost you a shitload (and I really mean it) of money to build equipment to circumvent.
The worst drug of them all when looking at health effects and violence towards others is alcohol. Are you in favour of making it illegal?