but it is cowardice to claim that we should not protect ourselves since there is an outside chance we might somehow disturb someone who isn't directly guilty.
Is "disturb" a euphimism for "kill?" I would hope not.
there comes a point when you have to say, "OK, it's war now, and we don't win a war by dying, we win a war by killing the other guys."
I think this is exactly my point. The terrorists have already gotten to that point, hence the attack. We will do the same. We just have a much much smaller target to hit. I'm saying we shouldn't use a nuke where a sniper rifle is required. I don't expect the US to just sit idly by and accept the attack. I just don't like seeing the bullshit rhetoric about how evil and cowardly the attack was. That's war people. We fund and support this kind of thing all over the world. We just haven't seen it up close on our own soil in a LONG time. Welcome to war. It's ugly. It's unfair. Lots of people die for things they don't know about or understand. We aren't truly innocent though. We are responsible for the actions of our government. Our CIA has trained and supported such groups all over the world to serve our own purposes. Do you really believe that it would never come back to haunt us? Do you really believe that we can fight proxy wars all over the place and never have them touch our own soil?
Aren't we just as evil for training and supporting such groups and people around the world to serve our own interests. Aren't we responsible for the actions of our government, in this case via the CIA?
You are insane, or evil, or both if you think for one instant that this is the way most people would act.
In the same position, I believe they would. I don't think that makes me insane or evil though. These were not just random humans either. They were targeting US citizens. I also don't believe it was for some "nebulous revenge." Was our bombing of Hiroshima or Nagasaki done for revenge? We killed thousands of "innocent" people. Why? Because we considered it acceptable rather than lose our own troops in a military assault. These people HAVE declared war on us. But they're not going to be stupid and challenge our military to a good clean fight. That's as much suicide as their deaths on those planes. They want to fight us and they don't want to lose. They are using the same logic we did in nuking Japan. They can't afford to lose their people in a conventional fight and they can't afford to lose. So they will fight when and where they can and kill as many of us as possible.
Now, I don't want to die. I don't want to see others die. Don't misunderstand me and think that I'm supporting their actions. I'm just saying that I understand their actions. Like any actions, there will be consequences. Listen to the president and congress to find out what those consequences will be. Just as they've said, it is a war. It's just not a conventional war. You can't expect them to challenge the US military to a duel. You can't expect them to fight clean. They will fight to win, just as the US has always done. We're just getting our first up-close look at war in a really long time. We don't like it. Perhaps we should consider that when we're sending military aid all over the place and doling out cash and weapons to every tin pot dictator we happen to support at the moment to get our oil fix.
I'm not proud of it. I'm not saying they shouldn't be brought to justice. As to your question of what those people did, they did the same as the rest of us. They were citizens of the US, and responsible for the acts of the US government. I'm just trying to say that there is no way we can separate ourselves from the actions of our government. We are responsible. We seem to forget this much too easily.
Fine. At least you're honest about your intentions. I'm just sick of people advocating the bombing of other countries in retribution, yet continuing to think that they are somehow better than the so-called terrorists that are bombing our country in defense of what they believe in. If you admit that its a savage world and the strongest will dominate, then you're at least looking at things realistically. Just don't pretend that we're all just innocent bystanders. We're no more innocent than the people that we bomb because we don't like what their government is doing.
Yeah, we're rich and have the luxury of the most sophisticated and well-equiped military in the world. Most countries are stuck with hardware we haven't used for 40 years. Yet people still think that they're supposed to challenge our military to a good clean fight or something. Yeah, right. These people are doing what most any other people would do in their situation. They're fighting back the only way they can. We'll do the same. If we're smart and lucky, we'll probably win. I'm just sick to death about hearing all this shit about how it was a "cowardly attack", etc. These people died for what they beleive in, defending it the only way they could. I don't think that makes them cowards. I think that makes them desperate and devoted.
No. Let's quit trying impose our will on the rest of the damn world. Maybe then they won't have any reason to blow the hell out of us. I don't disagree that the people responsible should be brought to justice. Just that it should be done carefully and without any "collateral damage." We've committed and/or supported many horrible acts as a country. We are responsible for the actions of our government. Yet we somehow think we still hold some sort of moral high ground. If you want to blow the hell out of other countries, fine. But don't fucking make up lame ass reasons for why you're doing it and don't even pretend to be innocent.
So, basically you think we should fight fire with fire. We should become terrorists ourselves in order to punish those who committed this act. In the end, we will end up locked in a battle to the death with the terrorists responsible for today's attacks, and probably others as well. We will have no moral justification for our acts other than the same justifications that the terrorists of the world normally give. This was not the first stone to be thrown. This is just a bigger stone than usual. Most Americans don't even know what the hell our country does overseas or how our actions affect the people of other countries. Most people don't seem to really care. Is it any surprise that we've made enemies such as this?
Any terrorist group that can pull off an attack like this probably has people clamoring to join up. The suicide hijackers will be martyrs to the cause and an inspiration to the other memebers of the organization. This will likely cause the ranks of the organization to swell in the near future.
You might feel diferently if another country walked into your town and bulldozed your home down and kicked you out of town. The Palestinians have been fucked over by Israel, and the US is Israel's biggest backer. We give them all the money and military hardware they're using to kick the Palestinians out of their own homes. If I was Palestinian, I'd be pretty damn pissed too. Most of them probably have little or nothing to lose by attacking the US.
I hear people claim all the time that we should bomb entire countries in the middle east. Their rationale is that if these people won't stand up to their government and make them act properly, then they are just as responsible and deserve to be bombed. We are now victims of that same sort of thinking. We are being held responsible for the actions of our government. We call it terrorism and cowardice. But most Americans aren't even aware of the actions our government carries out in our name around the world. I'm not sure which is the greater tragedy, a terrorist attack such as this, or the level of ignorance and apathy of the American people where our government and multinational corporations are concerned.
Citizens of countries who condone this type of action are not innocents, they are as guilty as the rest for not rising up.
You're the worst sort of idiot in this world. Stupid AND violent. Look at what you said and then imagine it being said by someone in the Middle East about America. WE are responsible for the actions of our government. WE are the targets of those whom we have harmed, whether we believe it justified or not. They share your belief that all the people of the country are responsible for the acts of their government and therefore all Americans are legitimate targets.
Some would like to see our country razed, just as you would like to see their countries razed. It's your kind of thinking that is responsible for such tragedies as today's events. America has perpetrated some pretty serious crimes in this world. People have good reason to hate us in some cases. We're not as innocent as we like to think or as our government would tell us we are. In any case though, massive military retaliation would be idiotic. It will only lead to more destruction on both sides.
I believe you don't have to accept the GPL license in order to use GPLed software. I assume that in such a case there would be no warranties of any kind except those required by law. Which, I believe, is one reason everyone was so pissed off about UCITA. IIRC, it would require all software to have a warranty, and it didn't make any exception for free software.
I think it's more like someone is using it for a fairly big-budget film development project and they're worried that if there is a bug in the software that holds up or screws up such a project they could be sued by the company doing the production, regardless of whatever disclaimers they attached to the use of the product. I don't think they're being paranoid either.
Colobot seems to teach procedural programming skills, but not much else. There's little room for any creativity there. It might be enough to get some people started, then they can graduate on to better things such as Robocode.
The thing is, he's lumping all hackers together. While Mindstorms may appeal to a wide array of hacker types, among others, not all hackers would react the same to provocation by Lego. The thing about such situations is that it only takes one hacker to shut down their website and get all hackers painted with the same brush.
Not as much as a split between Windows and Office, etc., but it's a hell of a lot better than letting them off with another slap on the wrist. The details would be important, but having to major corporations competing on a pretty equal playing field is a lot better than having one with the ability to crush everyone else.
This whole thing has been a colossal waste of taxpayers money.
We should let corporations do whatever they damn well please with no adverse consequences whatsoever. Brilliant. The problem is that Microsoft has done the same damn thing several times. They got off with a slap on the wrist the first time around. Now it's gonna happen again. Where is the remedy to keep them from doing it again?!
Funny how everyone that replied to this post totally ignored the argument it made. He already made an argument against the replies in his post, but nobody seems to have read past the first paragraph. If you're gonna post some moronic reply, at least read the damn post first. Maybe then you can actually say something regarding the actual point of the post instead of wasting everyone's time with this drivel.
Why the heck should he donate money for research that can't be done here? His money could be used to make a lot more progress if he gave it to a university in Europe instead. Why should he blow his cash on a hobbled US university?
I think the purpose is to obscure that piece of data intentionally since it's not an accurate benchmark anyway. This way people will actually have to learn something about the processors when they decide to buy. Perhaps read reviews that compare AMD chips with Intel's. That could work to AMD's advantage.
Slashdot Mirror
but it is cowardice to claim that we should not protect ourselves since there is an outside chance we might somehow disturb someone who isn't directly guilty.
Is "disturb" a euphimism for "kill?" I would hope not.
there comes a point when you have to say, "OK, it's war now, and we don't win a war by dying, we win a war by killing the other guys."
I think this is exactly my point. The terrorists have already gotten to that point, hence the attack. We will do the same. We just have a much much smaller target to hit. I'm saying we shouldn't use a nuke where a sniper rifle is required. I don't expect the US to just sit idly by and accept the attack. I just don't like seeing the bullshit rhetoric about how evil and cowardly the attack was. That's war people. We fund and support this kind of thing all over the world. We just haven't seen it up close on our own soil in a LONG time. Welcome to war. It's ugly. It's unfair. Lots of people die for things they don't know about or understand. We aren't truly innocent though. We are responsible for the actions of our government. Our CIA has trained and supported such groups all over the world to serve our own purposes. Do you really believe that it would never come back to haunt us? Do you really believe that we can fight proxy wars all over the place and never have them touch our own soil?
Aren't we just as evil for training and supporting such groups and people around the world to serve our own interests. Aren't we responsible for the actions of our government, in this case via the CIA?
Only one plane hit near the center. The first plane hit near the top of the building. The building still came down though.
You are insane, or evil, or both if you think for one instant that this is the way most people would act.
In the same position, I believe they would. I don't think that makes me insane or evil though. These were not just random humans either. They were targeting US citizens. I also don't believe it was for some "nebulous revenge." Was our bombing of Hiroshima or Nagasaki done for revenge? We killed thousands of "innocent" people. Why? Because we considered it acceptable rather than lose our own troops in a military assault. These people HAVE declared war on us. But they're not going to be stupid and challenge our military to a good clean fight. That's as much suicide as their deaths on those planes. They want to fight us and they don't want to lose. They are using the same logic we did in nuking Japan. They can't afford to lose their people in a conventional fight and they can't afford to lose. So they will fight when and where they can and kill as many of us as possible.
Now, I don't want to die. I don't want to see others die. Don't misunderstand me and think that I'm supporting their actions. I'm just saying that I understand their actions. Like any actions, there will be consequences. Listen to the president and congress to find out what those consequences will be. Just as they've said, it is a war. It's just not a conventional war. You can't expect them to challenge the US military to a duel. You can't expect them to fight clean. They will fight to win, just as the US has always done. We're just getting our first up-close look at war in a really long time. We don't like it. Perhaps we should consider that when we're sending military aid all over the place and doling out cash and weapons to every tin pot dictator we happen to support at the moment to get our oil fix.
I'm not proud of it. I'm not saying they shouldn't be brought to justice. As to your question of what those people did, they did the same as the rest of us. They were citizens of the US, and responsible for the acts of the US government. I'm just trying to say that there is no way we can separate ourselves from the actions of our government. We are responsible. We seem to forget this much too easily.
Fine. At least you're honest about your intentions. I'm just sick of people advocating the bombing of other countries in retribution, yet continuing to think that they are somehow better than the so-called terrorists that are bombing our country in defense of what they believe in. If you admit that its a savage world and the strongest will dominate, then you're at least looking at things realistically. Just don't pretend that we're all just innocent bystanders. We're no more innocent than the people that we bomb because we don't like what their government is doing.
Yeah, we're rich and have the luxury of the most sophisticated and well-equiped military in the world. Most countries are stuck with hardware we haven't used for 40 years. Yet people still think that they're supposed to challenge our military to a good clean fight or something. Yeah, right. These people are doing what most any other people would do in their situation. They're fighting back the only way they can. We'll do the same. If we're smart and lucky, we'll probably win. I'm just sick to death about hearing all this shit about how it was a "cowardly attack", etc. These people died for what they beleive in, defending it the only way they could. I don't think that makes them cowards. I think that makes them desperate and devoted.
No. Let's quit trying impose our will on the rest of the damn world. Maybe then they won't have any reason to blow the hell out of us. I don't disagree that the people responsible should be brought to justice. Just that it should be done carefully and without any "collateral damage." We've committed and/or supported many horrible acts as a country. We are responsible for the actions of our government. Yet we somehow think we still hold some sort of moral high ground. If you want to blow the hell out of other countries, fine. But don't fucking make up lame ass reasons for why you're doing it and don't even pretend to be innocent.
Care to elaborate? Or is that the extent of your ability to articulate your disagreement?
So, basically you think we should fight fire with fire. We should become terrorists ourselves in order to punish those who committed this act. In the end, we will end up locked in a battle to the death with the terrorists responsible for today's attacks, and probably others as well. We will have no moral justification for our acts other than the same justifications that the terrorists of the world normally give. This was not the first stone to be thrown. This is just a bigger stone than usual. Most Americans don't even know what the hell our country does overseas or how our actions affect the people of other countries. Most people don't seem to really care. Is it any surprise that we've made enemies such as this?
Any terrorist group that can pull off an attack like this probably has people clamoring to join up. The suicide hijackers will be martyrs to the cause and an inspiration to the other memebers of the organization. This will likely cause the ranks of the organization to swell in the near future.
You might feel diferently if another country walked into your town and bulldozed your home down and kicked you out of town. The Palestinians have been fucked over by Israel, and the US is Israel's biggest backer. We give them all the money and military hardware they're using to kick the Palestinians out of their own homes. If I was Palestinian, I'd be pretty damn pissed too. Most of them probably have little or nothing to lose by attacking the US.
I hear people claim all the time that we should bomb entire countries in the middle east. Their rationale is that if these people won't stand up to their government and make them act properly, then they are just as responsible and deserve to be bombed. We are now victims of that same sort of thinking. We are being held responsible for the actions of our government. We call it terrorism and cowardice. But most Americans aren't even aware of the actions our government carries out in our name around the world. I'm not sure which is the greater tragedy, a terrorist attack such as this, or the level of ignorance and apathy of the American people where our government and multinational corporations are concerned.
Citizens of countries who condone this type of action are not innocents, they are as guilty as the rest for not rising up.
You're the worst sort of idiot in this world. Stupid AND violent. Look at what you said and then imagine it being said by someone in the Middle East about America. WE are responsible for the actions of our government. WE are the targets of those whom we have harmed, whether we believe it justified or not. They share your belief that all the people of the country are responsible for the acts of their government and therefore all Americans are legitimate targets.
Some would like to see our country razed, just as you would like to see their countries razed. It's your kind of thinking that is responsible for such tragedies as today's events. America has perpetrated some pretty serious crimes in this world. People have good reason to hate us in some cases. We're not as innocent as we like to think or as our government would tell us we are. In any case though, massive military retaliation would be idiotic. It will only lead to more destruction on both sides.
the crackpots who are opposed to the DMCA
I'm opposed to the DMCA, does that make me a crackpot in your view?
I believe you don't have to accept the GPL license in order to use GPLed software. I assume that in such a case there would be no warranties of any kind except those required by law. Which, I believe, is one reason everyone was so pissed off about UCITA. IIRC, it would require all software to have a warranty, and it didn't make any exception for free software.
I think it's more like someone is using it for a fairly big-budget film development project and they're worried that if there is a bug in the software that holds up or screws up such a project they could be sued by the company doing the production, regardless of whatever disclaimers they attached to the use of the product. I don't think they're being paranoid either.
Colobot seems to teach procedural programming skills, but not much else. There's little room for any creativity there. It might be enough to get some people started, then they can graduate on to better things such as Robocode.
The thing is, he's lumping all hackers together. While Mindstorms may appeal to a wide array of hacker types, among others, not all hackers would react the same to provocation by Lego. The thing about such situations is that it only takes one hacker to shut down their website and get all hackers painted with the same brush.
Not as much as a split between Windows and Office, etc., but it's a hell of a lot better than letting them off with another slap on the wrist. The details would be important, but having to major corporations competing on a pretty equal playing field is a lot better than having one with the ability to crush everyone else.
This whole thing has been a colossal waste of taxpayers money.
We should let corporations do whatever they damn well please with no adverse consequences whatsoever. Brilliant. The problem is that Microsoft has done the same damn thing several times. They got off with a slap on the wrist the first time around. Now it's gonna happen again. Where is the remedy to keep them from doing it again?!
Funny how everyone that replied to this post totally ignored the argument it made. He already made an argument against the replies in his post, but nobody seems to have read past the first paragraph. If you're gonna post some moronic reply, at least read the damn post first. Maybe then you can actually say something regarding the actual point of the post instead of wasting everyone's time with this drivel.
Why the heck should he donate money for research that can't be done here? His money could be used to make a lot more progress if he gave it to a university in Europe instead. Why should he blow his cash on a hobbled US university?
Until we eliminate copyright law itself, we might as well have laws which actually enable it to be enforced.
You don't really understand the DMCA, do you?
I think the purpose is to obscure that piece of data intentionally since it's not an accurate benchmark anyway. This way people will actually have to learn something about the processors when they decide to buy. Perhaps read reviews that compare AMD chips with Intel's. That could work to AMD's advantage.
Elcomsoft sold the software, not Dmitri. Important distinction.