Slashdot Mirror
Attacks On US Continued Reports
I'm still having problems getting news from most normal sites, and we are just barely holding up.
Both world trade towers have collapsed after hijaacked planes crashed into them. New Yorkers are asked to give blood. Pentagon has collapsed after similiar crash. A pilot of another hijaacked plane crashed in a PA field rather then hitting another target in Pitt (unconfirmed). Military is at the highest alert. US Embassy in Oslo evacuated, all israeli embassies evacuated. 2 Flights to LAX lost radio contact. 3 other planes down. London evacuating. Camp David crash is false. Bin Laden threatened about 2 months ago. Many many many dead. Many other cities evacuating and shutting down.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/worldtrade.crash/ index.html [cnn.com]
Here it is from CNN, only a synopsis right now.
NEW YORK (CNN) -- Terrorists struck the United States Tuesday morning in harrowing, widespread attacks that included at least three commercial jet crashes into significant buildings.
In the first attack, a plane smashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center in Manhattan shortly before 9 a.m., followed by another plane into the second tower about 20 minutes later. Both towers later collapsed. Sources told CNN that one of the planes was an American Airlines Boeing 767 that had been hijacked after take-off from Boston.
About an hour later, a plane crashed into the Pentagon in Washington, part of which later collapsed.
Sources say a second plane was heading toward the Pentagon; F-16 jets were in the air monitoring it.
The Pentagon, the White House, the State Department, the Justice Department, the Capitol, the CIA and all other government buildings in Washington evacuated.
In the first ever national ground stop of aircraft, all flights nationwide have been stopped at their departure airports.
All international flights were diverted to Canada.
Israel has evacuated all its missions around the world.
President Bush cancelled an appearance in Florida to return to Washington, calling the crashes "apparent terrorist attacks" and "a national tragedy."
In Chicago, the Sears Tower was evacuated; United Nations in New York evacuated.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta was evacuated.
The New York Port Authority said it had closed all bridges and tunnels into the city.
New York's Bellevue Hospital was designated command central for handling the catastrophe. Several hospitals have already reported receiving victims with burns and head injuries.
Large plane crashed 80 miles south of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, but it was unknown if this crash was connected to terrorist attacks.
U.S. stock markets were closed after the New York attacks.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Oh bother.
DFLP has said that they are not responsible. The TV station confirmed that the call they received this morning was anonymous. High level DFLP officials are in contact with the US gov't, and according to ABC are offering to cooperate fully.
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
I think you're being slashdotted :)
wanna bet we get a suspension of our
"inalienable" rights?????
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
We (members of the german army) have been put on alert, people are being revoked from holiday, all system/material checked, no talk policy.
+++ath0
Here is what is on their webpage:
AMERICAN CONFIRMS TWO AIRCRAFT LOST
FORT WORTH, Texas ? American Airlines confirmed today that it lost two aircraft in tragic incidents this morning. American said the flights were Flight 11, a Boeing 767 en route from Boston to Los Angeles with 81 passengers, nine flight attendants and two pilots; and Flight 77, a Boeing 757 operating from Washington Dulles to Los Angeles with 58 passengers, four flight attendants and two pilots.
Because of the heightened security due to the nature of today?s events, American said it is working closely with U.S. government authorities and will not release more information at this time.
The government has shut down the entire air traffic system in the United States. American, TWA and American Eagle will not operate.
"We are horrified by these tragic events," said Donald J. Carty, chairman and CEO of American Airlines. "Our thoughts and prayers go out to the families of all involved."
Media calls should be directed to the FBI. Customers who wish to receive information about relatives should call American?s response number at 1-800-245-0999.
Updated information about this morning's incident in New York will be available here as soon as it is verified. Check back frequently and refresh your browser often to make sure you have the most current information.
Granted exploding planes aren't exactly the best transport system for biological agents, but with the number of people compressed into relatively small places, a good number of which will soon be travelling back to their home areas soon...
The possibilty of secondary attacks to that end are just frightening as hell.
'Life is like a spoonful of Drain-O, it feels good on the way down but leaves you feeling hollow inside'
Latest on the news is that the Palestinians have condemmned the attack, attention has shifted to Bin Laden who has in fact threatened us a while ago. Estimates on ABC were in the 50-60,000 dead at the world trade center alone. Pentagon they wer saying like 5,000? its all guesses right now.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&o
Was a 747 jet bound for San Fran. Prayers for those lives lost, and families with loss on this day of infamy.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
...what today's date is.
911...(9/11/01)
about the ability of our internet infrastructure to handle the demand in cases of crisis?
Amazing magic tricks
http://my.aol.com/news/news_special.psp?newsid=wor ldtrade
http://www.ual.com/Response/PressReleases/0,11641, -1_,00.html
Unite's link. flight 93 is the Pa plane, flight 175 is missing.
I didn't do it, and if I did, you can't prove it. Bart Simpson
Just heard a news report that a United flight out of Pittsburgh is confirmed to have been hijacked.
Also a 767 from Boston to LA (flight 175) is out of radio contact and officials are "worried".
According to NPR, the Pentagon has *not* collapsed, and although there have been significant casualties, the section that was hit was a new section that had many vacant offices.
i am in times square now i work at 5 world trade i was late for work today and obviously never made it i can not locate all of my coworkers i am emailing and phoning all cell networks seem to be flooded or down please everyone, pass this to EVERYONE: PRAY AND DONATE BLOOD PRAY AND DONATE BLOOD
tell everyone: PRAY AND DONATE BLOOD PASS THIS ON
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Please remember this is not confirmed.
Quote by Nostradamus
See:
http://www.ed.brocku.ca/~nmarshal/nostradamus.htm
Scary if you ask me.
--
Slashdot signature: 'Laugh assist to nerd'
We are turning our business into an emergency blood donation center for the red cross. I ask that anyone who has a business that has a large amount of free space to donate it as an emergency center for the ARC to setup at.
If you cannot do that please just go and donate blood. It is desperately needed for the hundreds if not thousands injured today.
Prospecting Stinks. Stop Wasting Time on Cold Calling.
The US military is on alert. For security reasons I can't post more details, but the 82nd airborne division has been told to suit up and according to one report one unit is already in the air, though they're not sure where they'll be landing yet. Speculation is that they'll land at a known friendly base in the middle east and then decide where to go from there.
Obviously, I can't reveal my source for this, but its a close relative who is 'in the know'.
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
All bases in the Colorado Springs area including NORAD, and US Space Command are on Threatcon Charlie, not the highest state of alert, but close, all bases have been closed to the public, this is going to get ugly. Where the hell is President Bush? Is there going to be a war?
Just heard a news report that a United flight out of Pittsburgh is confirmed to have been hijacked.
Also a 767 from Boston to LA (flight 175) is out of radio contact and officials are "worried".
Also here in europe a lot of the news sites are down, especially heute.de (german).
/. effect because all the people wanted info at the same time ?
DoS Attack or just a
All israeli instituions and building have been ranked high security here in Germany.
Be very very scared. This is fodder for a World War.
+++ath0
A pilot of another hijaacked plane crashed in a PA field rather then hitting another target in Pitt.
I reported that in #slashdot. It is what I hard from my roommate who heard it from her ex-bf who is a coast guard pilot. I cannot vouch for it being true, it comes from no official news source (as of this writing). I've also heard that it may have been shot down.
Finkployd
my prayers are with the victims and their families.
That's not quite true; I am currently sat in an office pretty much in the centre of London (spitting distance from Trafalgar Square).
Canary Wharf and the London Stock Exchange have been evacuated, there are rumours of Heathrow (the nearest large airport) being shut down, and I'd be surprised if most of the City (the financial district, and original City of London) hasn't been evacuated, but the rest of us are still here.
(Of course, there's nothing nearby worth targetting, unless you really hate the theatre, or shops - Oxford Street is very close by, though...)
Coincidently, it's my birthday today; guess I won't be forgetting this one in a hurry.
Cheers,
Tim
It's official. Most of you are morons.
http://www.jessenewland.net/article.php?sid=87&mod e=thread&order=0
Jesse Newland
Netscape.com says White House has also been attacked on their front page. but the thier story page does not contain this. It this true?
Spurious reports of a crash into Chicago are at this time believed to be false.
(Disclaimer: IANANS - I Am Not A News Service)
Could this all be connected with the raids on the data farms in texas this past week?
I think our govt knew about this stuff a few weeks in advance. Coverup continues.
Ever need an online dictionary?
Hospitals are reportedly desperate for blood donations. If in the affected states please consider donating if it is practical where you are.
People are evacuating large buildings in droves in Los Angeles - Century City towers, downtown towers, all government buildings are closed to non-essential employees, and the Reagan Library is closed because no tourists were there and the two retired librarians wanted to go home.
People around here are all just evacuating to make themselves look important.
Zaphod B
When duplication is outlawed, only outlaws will have
For Americans (and truly all free nations), this has shaken our country to the very core and IMHO brings into question the ability to live our lives with the freedom we've always enjoyed.
I believe retailation in the highest order is needed, but with religious zealots willing to carry out kamakazi attacks, I fear there will be two more for every one we kill.
How do we preserve / return to our way of life?
national guard and marines are at ready all government buildings practically everywhere have been evacuated teh NYSE is down all air traffic has been shut down both in the US and Canada, israel has evacuated their embassies, there are car bomb reports from everywhere
this is world war 3 people, i'm sure everyone is just waiting around to see who to invade
news sites that are inaccessable right now(to me anyway) are
dailynews.yahoo.com
www.reuters.com
www.ap.org
I think it would be a good idea to use lynx or some text browser so as not to put as much strain on the slashdot servers. Slashdot is the only site that is carrying this story that I can actually access right now.
May there now be a moment of silence for those who perished in this terrible tragedy........
.
.
.
.
.
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"the fax machine is nothing but a waffle iron with a phone attached to it." - Grandpa Simpson
CNN reports second boston to LA flight, this one united 175 (as opposed to american 11 that hit the WTC) is down. Did *not* give any further details.
jem
Portal Of Evil News
www.poenews.com
Shameless Self Promotion : Webhosting at Blender Networks.
Hmmm... Think about the racial paranoia that is going to stem from this tragic event.
People, unfortunately, look for excuses to target any group, and blame their woes on them. Whether they be economic (as is typical), or, in this case, terrorist. The Jewish people have long been scapegoats for Europe's woes. Even recently, with the Pauline Hanson issue, here in au, in years past, where migrants were blamed for the countries environmental and economic problems.
Now. A group has already been selected, pretty much by default and with no actual basis in fact (yet). People of Middle Eastern background.
Unfortunately, there will be ramifications.
- - -
giftedu
Let's keep the truly remarkable thing in mind abou this: we heard about it on Slashdot first. Great job, guys.
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
He got out. Maybe many other have. there are almost 40-500 thousand people in those buildings.
If you are in NYC, get off the phone lines NOW, and give blood.
Peace, or Not?
This just makes me sick, we spend countless dollars fighting a lost war, and we let fucken terrorists into our own country, killing thousands of innocent people. keep all our special forces in columbia, it seems to be keeping our children safe.
Only 3 hours before the first jokes appear ...
Anyone running MacOS or Windows, go get Quicktime and watch the coverage on the BBC World stream.
A great attack on the US. But if you react with blame or violence out of fear or frustration at the first person you see, rather than getting all the facts, then the terrorists have won. I plead with all of you, think before you post or talk.
=================
Unix is very user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
Whomever has done this has awakened the giant. We will not rest until we run them down and expose their evil and folly to the world.
I may be a frequent critic of W., but today, I'm behind him 100% and want the culprits brought to justice and their abbetors, likewise.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
my prayers are with those that were where the attacks took place.
All Canadian Airports are shutdown, except for flights that are already in the air. They are providing landing for those planes.
The Canadian/US border is closed.
Canadian Military is on alert, and miltary police are in key locations.
Toronto Stock Exchange is closed.
(Disclaimer: IANANS - I Am Not A News Service)
If you are concerned that you may have friends in the area, unfortunately the Port Authority of NY and NJ site ( http://www.panynj.gov/ ) now reports:
"All facilities are closed due to a state of emergency."
However, see this inside page at the Port Authority:
http://www.panynj.gov/wtc/wtcfram.HTM
Directions appear here:
http://www.panynj.gov/wtc/directions2.htm
"The World Trade Center is located in lower Manhattan, stretching from Church Street on the east to West Street on the west, and from Liberty Street on the south to Vesey Street on the north."
Best vicinity map:
http://www.panynj.gov/wtc/wtcareamap7-00.gif
Other interior maps:
http://www.panynj.gov/wtc/mallmapframe.html
GS http://www.unblinking.com/
http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yaho o.com/h/ts/nm/?u - Tons of AP articles
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Oh bother.
Now you just have to send that dude back in time a few days and he can sort it all out.
Maybe the next time, people will question, "are having our rights trampled on really giving us security?"
Fight Spammers!
This news was originally in Swedish (blame my poor english):
"Palestinian groups are celebrating. The news agency AP reports that palestinian groups in Nablos on Westbank are celebrating the attack."
Stupid motherfucker. People are dead and you're worried about first post? I hope you lose some loved ones in a terrorist attack someday.
Denis Leary said that after his generation saw JFK shot on live TV, they were afraid to change the channel for the next 20 years. Now we have ours...
I'm writing this just after the towers have collapsed. CNN is the hero of the day, switching to low bandwidth text/html with one image and getting the news out. Newsmax is just barely keeping up. MSNBC is showing an IIS error page, FoxNews is unavailable, as is ABCNews, Yahoo DailyNews, the BBC, the Washington Post, and many other big sites. The Washington Times isn't even carrying this story yet. Slashdot looked to be the early clearing house, but they went into 'server trouble' yet again, and noone can post right now, or log in (to turn off all those stupid icons that are sucking bandwidth). Mozilla crashed on me, Netscape 4 under Classic (OSX) is doing OK, but having DNS trouble and IE still can't figure out what my proxy is about. At work here, we had a DirectTV setup a while ago, so I tried to get that reauthorized so we can watch the news (no, nothing but advertising on the free signal) and the telemarketer couldn't find our access card or setup an account with my credit card because the phone number at work isn't my home phone. My friend Brian went out to RadioShack and bought a TV antenna, and we were plugged into the events of the day, at last, by *broadcast*. That antiquated 70-year old technology we're all so eager to see get replaced in 5 years is the only thing working. Some how NBC is still broadcasting. I guess they have backup antennas that weren't on the World Trade Center. They even have men on the street reporting, although that guy needs to get away from the school where the bomb is. We won't call him a wimp for running like hell - we'll call him smart. That crazy guy's report is making it all the way up here to a little valley in New Hampshire like clockwork. Now that's a mature system. The point of all this is that while computers and the Internet are fun and all, we're kidding ourselves if we think it's ready to become our national infrastructure. The nature of today's event is almost strictly broadcast but show me an easy way to tune into the mbone today. ("The What?" lots of readers say). Some will call me a luddite, but I love technology as much as the next geek, so call me a pragmatist instead. We have alot of work to do if we want this baby we call the Internet to really support our society.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
"They bombed our innocents, so I think we should, uh, bomb their innocents! Yeah!"
Oh, what a sensible reaction.
Telecommunication systems NATIONWIDE are straining under the tremendous load. Emergency response teams are having difficulty with communications systems.
Emergency crews need communications much more than anyone else right now.
PLEASE AVOID THE USE OF THE TELEPHONE OR CELL PHONE, AND ADVISE OTHERS TO DO THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!
There are reports that this attack is a commemoration of the signing of the camp david accords. Which were worked out from September 5th to 17th (the 11th is the average date).
You were eaten by a grue.
We are all screaming for blood, demanding massive retaliation.
That is exactly what "they" have been doing as their people are killed.
I'm not against retaliation, just before we start down the path, we should realize whose path it is, and where it goes.
This page has a good summary list of news snippets from various sources, and it's updated fairly regularly:
http://www.gweep.net/~leaf/wtc.txt
http://www.gimbo.org.uk/
I have a copy of what CNN is running on their site with some information from Fox. mkelley.net. Please be gentle my server isn't that strong.
m.kelley
life is like a freeway, if you don't look you could miss it.
This is going to lend a lot of weight to the argument for less privacy for individuals..
Also, some photos here
The revolution will not be televised. It won't be on a friggin blog either
Confirmed here in canada we've closed all airports. No planes will be flying in north america.
International flights enroute to north america will be landing here in Halfiax. Emergency measures organization has taken over authority here in the city; the police and security will be reporting to them. Seems likely government buildings and such will be evacuated (our naval dockyards would make an inviting target to inbound terrorists). Radio has mentioned a dozen planes have already landed and as much as 50 more expected to arrive.
Also reports the US-Canada border may be closed and closing. Not sure on that one.
Here's the latest from Maryland, which is "right next door" to DC:
* Maryland is tightening security all throught the state.
* AMTRAK Baltimore Penn Station is shut down.
* BWI Airport is accepting landings only, no flights out.
* All schools are closing, and Annapolis's (state capital) MD State Circle (state capital) is closed to all but emergency traffic.
* State Police are asking folks to limit phone use, both landline and cell.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
May angels greet the dead in paradise and watch over the wounded, their families, and the rest of us.
I'm at akamai and we are running cnn right now, I don't know how much longer it will be up so mirror everything you can get your hands on
I just heard on TV that the Taliban is going to hold a Press Conference shortly.
Also reported is the claim of a French Newspaper Editor that Osama Bin Laden warned beforehand of the attacks.
The french military has rolled out several mobile air defence batteries on the edges of the capitol. The soldats guarding them are not having much humour. Very scary.
US had 1 too many warnings, that the security is lacking, one could remember the excecution of Tim McVeigh not long ago. I am just praying to GOD we will not have a World War 3. If US want to react to this, how would they?
www.salon.com still has the AP snippets.
PLEASE Please please try to avoid getting hysterical about this. I'm finding message boards filled with frothing hatred, wanting bloody revenge against entire countries.
Don't escalate this into war. There are no winners if it goes to war. We'll all just end up discovering that the terrosits do nukes. Some major American city will be vapourized in re-retaliation.
And get in touch with your State and Federal representatives. Protest any movement toward restricting your personal freedoms -- because they are going to lock you down. Protest any over-aggression -- because you will pay when the terrorists re-retaliate.
Time is NOT of the essence! Insist that things move carefully and cautiously. The world is in a delicate situation for the next few months. Treat it like a fragile, crystal bowl... and don't drop it.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
I'm getting (all the time, full-screen capable) video from n24broadband.de. Now it's more analysis, but they have a synopsis every 15 minutes or so. This is amazing - they seem to be the only ones to hold up admirably. Of course, having only installed everything a few weeks ago helps... (get their stock while they're cheap!)
Hurricane Application Group, Dept of Meteorology Control, Ministry of Proactive Defense
I don't remember which book of his it was, but it started with a plane hitting the capitol building, and ended with biological attacks against the US.
Thank goodness i'm canadian.
-Michael Roy Some people are like Slinkies. Not really useful, but you can't help smiling when you see one tumble down
I can see where the towers of the trade center used to be from my bedroom on 14th St. I saw just after the second plane hit and just after the 1st tower fell. I watched the 2nd tower fall. One of my friends is still missing. I'm trying to keep myself busy. You can see pictures on my site.
I'd estimate the death toll at betwen 20 and 50 thousand here. I believe approximately 40 thousand people work in the entire world trade complex and the attacks seem to be timed for just when everyone got work. I used to work in Tower 2, 15th Floor.
I'll try and get a webcam up, too.
Portable versions of Firefox, GIMP, LibreOffice, etc
... people still remember ebay.
& item=1637566709
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem
---
ps -aux | grep mind
Whoever owns the domain www.worldtradecenter.com has already put up a page saying "Domain available as memorial or for some other suitable purpose".
Thanks to DanielV for pointing this out.
Thank God we have a Texan in the white house who will know how to handle this. There is only one appropriate response to this: All out war. Some country either sponsored this, or allowed terrorists to live in their country (e.g., Afghanistan). Same thing, as far as I'm concerned. That country needs to be immediately taught what happens when you fuck with the United State of America.
The full might and power of the US must be demonstrated to ensure this NEVER happens again. At least full invasion force, and in my current mood I'm not sure I'm even ruling out a nuclear response.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Yes, frequently you do.
And you wonder why so many people hate "America"?
NEW YORK (CNN) -- Terrorists struck the United States Tuesday morning in harrowing, widespread attacks that included at least three commercial jet crashes into significant buildings.
In the first attack, a plane hit the north tower of the World Trade Center in Manhattan shortly before 9 a.m., followed by another plane into the second tower about 20 minutes later. Both towers later collapsed.
About an hour later, a plane crashed into the Pentagon, part of which later collapsed.
American Airlines told CNN that it lost two planes in "tragic accidents:" Flight 11 from Boston with 81 passengers and 11 crew aboard and Flight 77 from Washington Dulles airport with 58 passengers and six crew aboard. Both planes were en route to Los Angeles
United Airlines Flight 93 airliner headed from Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco, crashed near Somerset, Pennsylvania -- police said initial reports indicated no survivors. United also confirmed the crash of Flight 175 from Boston to Los Angeles.
The Pentagon, the White House, the State Department, the Justice Department, the Capitol, the CIA and all other government buildings in Washington evacuated.
President Bush cancelled an appearance in Florida to return to Washington, calling the crashes "apparent terrorist attacks" and "a national tragedy."
In the first ever national ground stop of aircraft, all flights nationwide have been stopped at their departure airports.
All international flights were diverted to Canada.
In New York, more than 10,000 rescue personnel rushed to the scene. The entire downtown area of Manhattan was evacuated as far north as Rockefeller Center, according to an official at an emergency command post.
Israel has evacuated all its missions around the world.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta was evacuated. CDC was preparing bioterrorism teams in case they become necessary.
Philadelphia landmarks were also evacuated.
In Chicago, the Sears Tower was evacuated; United Nations in New York evacuated.
The New York Port Authority said it had closed all bridges and tunnels into the city.
U.S. stock markets were closed after the New York attacks.
http://www.camcentral.com/camviewer.asp?script=sta te&item=WashingtonDC&page=1&id=7464
Matthew,
This is not the time for such insensitive and frankly irresponble posting. It is attitudes like this that cause things to get worse.
If you have personally lost during this then my feelings go out to you....
AC
Video is working too.
nothing really major, aside from a British mandate of Palistine and the overthrow of Elected government in Chile with US support.
History Today, 9/11
[insert humourous sig here]
It's clear, by now, that we're in a state of war. But unlike Perl Harbor, where the enemy was easily identifiable, we now must figure out who's responsible.
/. Little kids on field trips.
I've always felt terrorists were chicken-shits. I've got friends and relatives who work both in the Trade Center, and the Pentagon. Regular family people. Moms with kids in school. Dads who surf about
Terrorist == Cowards
healyourchurchwebsite.com - WWJB?
Deseret News has been updating their site, and I have had no problem getting in. www.desnews.com
State police have asked folks to limit phone usage in the state of Maryland. Please limit your useage, and tune into local TV stations (2, 11, 13) for more information.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
Go to www.newyork.com.
It's up and has a synopsis of everything so far. Being update fairly quickly as well from local Fox News.
I'm glad Timothy McVeigh's not alive to see it.
Reported on CBS MarketWatch: the Taleban ambassador to Pakistan has condemned this.
I'm watching BBC News 24, and Arafat has also condemned this, saying he was deeply shocked.
Listening for the sound of the coming rain...
* One plane on the way to SF is down near Pittsburg (Flight 193)
* TransAmerica building closed.
* Public buildings closed.
* Schools closed.
* Police in a high state of alert.
* Bridges ARE open.
* Public Transit IS open.
* All airports are of course closed.
--- I do not moderate.
The most useful, concise, and ( for now ) responsive sites I've found is Strategic Forecasting ( http://www.stratfor.com ).
..taco
Japan had to learn the hard way after attacking us. Perhaps now others will learn. You mess with the bull you get the horns. We'll turn the middle east into glass with out nukes! Good bye middle east!
Wouldn't it be nigh on impossible to hijack 2 AA jets at the same time and score direct hits on both trade centre buildings?
W hatever.
Looking from the outside I can envisage it would be very easy of 'friends' of McVeigh infiltrating the airline industry...think about that before necessarily jumping to conclusions about Palestinians/Libyans/Iraqis/Afgans/Irish/Basques/
My thoughts are with you all.
I'd donate blood of course, but unfortunatly, at my high school, they have just put in a lock-down for the day, and have cancelled the blood drive that was happening from the beginning of this morning.
Just consider the irony.
Don't eat your soul to fill your belly.
conesus.com
I can't get the image out of my mind that this is very simmilar to Executive Orders by Tom Clancy..
Think I heard that military went to Delta?
Damn, US-Asians, I wish you all the best in the coming times!
-=- I heard rumours about an OS called "Social Life", heard of it? Is it stable? -=-
or 911. coincidence?
One of the first things that struck me as a I watched the CNN coverage was the date - September 11th.
In Australia there was a very large protest in Melbourne called S11 on September 11th, 2000.
It was one of the global anti-WTO protests -- this one coincided with the Global Economic Forum, and it's stated aim was to disrupt the meeting (mission accomplished, AFAIK). I'm not sure whether S11 took place in other places in the world.
The "official" site is here.
Frankly I think it's probably just a co-incidence. The chief target (World Trade Center) suits the politics, but taking the lives of two planeloads of innocent people (condolences where appropriate -- I can't think of anything more horrible) does not.
grib.
maybe
How can you say something like this when tens of thousands of people have died???!
It's modern time kamikaze.
Imperial Japan only hit the shore 50 years ago -
and this time finally at the heart of the America.
50 years after, there will be some silly "pearl harbor"-like movie.
Another aircraft (a Jumbo) has just hit the Pentagon
[from http://www.dn.se, translated from swedish]
... when you see the World Trade Center coming down, says Viktor Sidabras, press secrectary of the american embassy.
The american embassy in Stockholm was closed earlier today after the terrorist attacks in the USA. The embassy has turned to the swedish police for additional security.
- As any american, as any human being, you are very
He won't speculate as to who is responsible for theses acts of terror.
- As president Bush said in his speech we will hunt down and catch those responsible for this, he says.
Viktor Sidabras believes that the US embassy will open again tomorrow, Tuesday.
[end of DN story]
According to swedish TV there are roadblocks around the embassy.
...for the loss of life and loved ones, but also for the impending loss of personal freedoms and liberties.
Link to cache from there.
Unable to read configuration file '/bigassraid/htdig//conf/14229.conf'
Geocrawler error message.
Again, pictures can be found here
:(
This is mostly of the WTC in New York, and is not meant to be off topic, but the other thread is getting overloaded
here is the URL again:
http://www.arctic.org/~trockij/wtc/
You think this is funny!?
PLEASE, mod up parent; this is spot on.
No attacks in Chicago just to clarify, but all of downtown has been evacuated...everything is closed....
people, do whatever you can to help, give blood, donate whatever you can...this is insanity...
I pray that those responsible pay.......and if that sentence about Arabs celebrating is true, well whatever god you worship help your pitiful souls because no one, no country, no matter how much you might hate them, deserves this.
Who needs aliens to attack us, when we have TERRORISTS!
'nuff said
United Airlines 757 has crashed. This is the one that was "missing," not the Pennsylvania plane. Looks to be in Colorado. :-(
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Does anyone want to reasses their opinion about whether or not the NSA is equipped to deal with current threats? It looks like we were caught unaware this morning.
1 25 0&mode=thread
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/09/08/012
I have some pics of the incident here
i will post more as i get them in.
Apparently they are putting George W on the Dooms Day plane. A plane they designed for the President in case of a nuclear attack. He can command the military forces and stay in the air for extended periods of time, is what they are saying. That is all I could pick up from the news.
I'm here in Chicago and I go to work at 9:30.
Basically NORTHBOUND Lake shore drive out of downtown was bumper to bumper at 9:30 am (usually it's empty (I work south of the city and have to pass through as all the major expressways go there). The John Hancock, Merchandise Mart, Sears Tower, and all major buildings downtown are being evacuated. Any bet that missing plane going from Boston to LA is going to try to go down here? Seems logical as we are in the middle of the route and are a major trade center.
The actions reported so far are a horrible tragedy, and unfortunately not the last in all probability. But a more ominous tragedy will follow soon behind, this is the end of privacy in America. We have watched Europe implement vastly sweeping regulation over encryption and other privacy technologies, now watch the US legislators jump into action over the next few weeks.
...that palistenian fsck on CNN serveral weeks ago who said that America was going to pay for Israils aggression?
It was a man-in-the-street (actually, man-at-a-protest) type of interview. Obviously these guys are clued into some sort of propaganda machine that the US intelligence agency seemed to have overlooked.
...and that silly fsck in the whitehouse wants to build a missle shield...
"September 11, 2001 .. a date which will live in infamy .."
73 de N5VB (ex-KD5BIV) AR SK
Howard is still on (he probably can't leave) he is in the center of it all so its a great new source at the moment.
It has now become known that the planes were actually heading for Redmond. Someone somewhere is going to make sure that his henchmen are better map readers and will *not* use PocketPC-based map-programmes in the future.
Ananova has been online and reliable all afternoon (British time).
-Stephen
According to the Boston Metro, today is International Peace Day.
-Rene
See you on the playa.
...at Bionicsonics
This might sound cynical, but I'm pretty happy whoever did this decided to go for symbolic rather than effective attacks (destroying WTC and the Pentagon as symbols of perceived US supremacy)...imagine these planes hitting nuclear power plants...
frotz grue
Border with Mexico was just shut down.
Got Rhinos?
I just came to tokyo 3 days ago.... we had a terrible typhoon yesterday. and Because of this NYC attack, Japan authorities decided to shutdown Narita Airport, and secure all tall buildings in Tokyo and Yokohama, I'm watching TV right now, and the anchorman is just reading a LOOOOONG list of japanese banks and services present in the US that are being shutdown. This is bad ....
Music is the language of the heart, the sound of the soul. -Joe Satriani
http://www.spack.nu/wtc
here is a mirror with pics that seem to have been taken from a digital camera.
As well as video of a plane hitting a tower and one of the towers collapsing.
I wish my server luck...
ender-
Nothing to see here
The Taleban have said that Osama Bin-Laden could not have been involved in this (BBC News 24)
Remember that groups with an interest here are at some point going to be queuing up to claim responsibility (the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine already have - CBS MarketWatch) so use a small pinch of salt for that one...
Listening for the sound of the coming rain...
probably last comment from me today...
German military is in high alert as reported, divisions are currently moving out to protect the capital Berlin and the Bundestag (read: german White House) located there.
This is damn serious. Additionally equipment and materials are in the process of being turned over to other NATO forces.
+++ath0
There will be a lot of pressure for punitive revenge attacks against suspected parties.
Doubtless this will happen, it is inconceivable that the US will allow this to go unpunished. For instance, after the attacks on several US embassies in Africa, the US bombed one of the only two pharmaceutical factories in Sudan on faulty intelligence info. Unfortunately it turned out that this factory was legitimate and this just led to the death of many innocent workers, plus many further deaths as a result of a lack of medicine.
When these revenge attacks occur, more innocent civilians will die. I just hope that Americans remember that the bombing of innocent civilians is wrong even when they are foreigners. I don't hold out much hope of this - when the revenge bombing occurs, I expect it will be greeted with jubliation, even though there will be a tenuous connection at best between those who die and those responsible for the atrocities in New York and Washington. It is appropriate to feel anger towards those responsible for the murder of innocents, but don't let that anger reduce you to "their" level.
http://rareformnewmedia.com/
I'm getting a solid Audio Stream from WNYC. New York's NPR station.
http://www.wnyc.org/audioindex/wnycam.asx
I'm uptown from the NYC attack. It is quite surreal. The smoke and debris are viewable all over the city. There is little or no transportation. People are walking everywhere.
As I walked down Park Ave I could see the plume of smoke and in the foreground seemingly floating above the grey shadows, an American Flag.
http://www.nandotimes.com &
r is m/
http://www.nandotimes.com/special_reports/terro
Canadian airlines have been shut down too. And the Sears tower in Toronto has also been shut down.
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while
the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb", "The third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
- Nostradamus 1654
---
ps -aux | grep mind
"CNN showing footage of arabs celebrating."
how FUCKED UP is that -- even look at it from their side -- say you hate the fact that we provide support for israel to slaughter and treat them terribly -- no one CELEBRATES.
im talking to a girl i know online right now. she cant get in touch with her best friend or mom. both were in the vicinity. how could someone possibly celebrate this.
no matter how much you hate the united states, our 'barbaric' celebrations and holidays dont come anywhere near sheer joy at mass killing.
They also reported that they are deploying an aircraft carrier to New York and one as close to DC as they can to supply air cover. I couldn't catch the names of the carriers dispatched.
In a scene probably being duplicated in other so-far-untouched major U.S. cities, most of the businesses in downtown Philadelphia, especially the ones in tall buildings, are closing or are already closed.
All city public and parochial schools are closing at noon local time, which has just passed as I write this.
Most people you pass on the street look furious, nauseous, or both.
The Liberty Bell and Independence Mall historical areas are shut down tight.
Mass transit has everything on the street and tracks that it can manage right now to get people home quickly.
This is like something out of a God damned nightmare. I can only hope retribution is swift, violent, and preferably nuclear-- 'no-first-use' declaration be damned.
~Philly
Of *course* they're going to lock us down. Airports are halted across the country, transportation at the attack sites is paralyzed, and communication there is impossible. Right now, don't expect to fly anywhere anytime soon. This isn't an attack on personal freedom; it's practical safety measures. The first plane that hit the WTC was going from Boston to Los Angeles; another plane could come from *anywhere*.
The terrorists won't "re-retaliate" for a long, long time -- they know we're on alert now, any more "sneak attacks" would be futile. The thing to do now is make sure no more planes can be used as bombs, then find out who's responsible, and then DEMAND that he be dealt with. Right now, I don't give a crap if his host country wants to extradite him or not. If a government is going to protect whoever's responsible for this, then they're complicit, and they're inviting war. Not hysteria; a practial and well-earned response.
No one's talking about locking the entire country down with martial law yet, if that's what you're worried about. But some restrictions are very necessary, and anyone with a sense of the big picture should be all for it.
God be with them.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
... but you DO NOT do this to the American people.
I truly believe that no one in the world really understands the capacity of this country to make war and to completely, totally, and irreversibly give you a new bodily orifice.
I'm sure that a lot of people agree with me on this one - we need to not be the country of wussies we usually are with this. This situation demands swift and severe response from us in any way possible. We've known for a while that something like this was on the way, but we've never stopped to think about how we would respond.
*IF* Bin Laden is responsible, he needs to go. We've known where he is, he's very vocal about what he says he wants to do to our country and our people, and we think he's just blowing smoke up our ass. This should show that people who say things like this and have the resources to pull it off should be taken seriously and dealt with pre-emptively *before* we face a day of reckoning like this. Keep in mind that what I say here is valid only *if* he's responsible, even though I think we should still be scared of him.
The people who have done this to our people and our country deserve slow death on public television. This deserves retaliation, *not* diplomacy.
I'm open to criticism of my opinion, and maybe I'm just speaking out of good old American rage, but when all this was occurring, I began to think that I'm surprised no one set off a nuke in the middle of all this in one or more major cities.
>
The last words of mankind will *not* be, "The secret name of God is...," but, "What does *this* button do?
Palestinians in West Bank celebrate attacks on U.S.
By Amos Harel, Ha'aretz Correspondent and Agencies
Palestinians across the West Bank on Tuesday celebrated the series ofaircraft attacks on New York and Washington. There were scenes of celebration in the West Bank cities of Nablus, Tul Karm, Bethlehem and the Balata refugee camp.
While Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat condemned the attacks which levelled the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York City and struck the Pentagon in Washington, hundreds of Palestinians distributed sweets in Nablus.
"I feel I am in a dream. I never believed that one day the United States would come to pay a price for its support to Israel," said Mustafa, a 24-year-old Palestinian gunman.
Several dozen Palestinian youths gathered in East Jerusalem to celebrate as well, honking out wedding tunes on their car horns. "We are so happy thatAmerica was hit. America is against us in supporting Israel," Suleiman, one of the demonstrators, said.
In Nablus, motorists honked their horns and gunmen fired into the air from assault rifles to cheer on the attacks which unfolded in the space of a few hours.
Many cell phones are down in the NY-NJ area since the WTC was the transmitter/receiver for many of them.
Also, cell phone service in DC area has been shut down due to the fear of cell phone activated bombs.
Trying to help keep a heads up in this grim situation.
nWo 4 Life
Bin Laden can't and shouldn't be automatically blamed for every terrorist act against the US. He may have been involved - but it's been three hours since the whole pile of shit began, and you can't know yet who or what organization did this. Jumping to conclusions is unproductive, unhelpful, prejudicial and leads to the sort of thing which happend today (not, let it be clear, that anything could ever justify these acts).
This is a false report!!!
As of 12:10PM EDT there has been only ONE hit at the Pentagon.
If he had bothered to read the context, the original poster would realize that the author of the quote was the author of the webpage. The point was to show how vague the prophecies are and how they are subject to ipso facto interperation:
here's the context from the webpage
If I make say a thousand prophecies that are fairly abstract for example:
In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb
Well let us analyse this.
[snip]
Note the 'I' in the first sentence.
You can never equivocate too much.
This attack is the most deadly attack on the U.S. mainland in modern history.
All government buildings in Washington are closed. All "tall buildings" are being evacuated. All commercial flights are grounded. (anyone have info on commuter or small-engine flights?)
All planes appear to have been hijacked, one from Boston and one from Washington.
That is all I know from reputable sources. It appears there may have been futher explostions, but whether they were seperate attacks or not is unclear.
"There was no advance warning of this," the official said on condition of anonymity. (Reuters)
I find that hard to believe. I'm still waiting to hear from friends -- all circuts are busy both on land and cell lines.
--Joey
Does anyone know if this server was housed inside the World Trade Centre?
Was there webcams inside? is there any footage from them?
The attacks are considered a declaration of war to all the free world, denying the very base of humanity.
We are all with you.
Kiwaiti
Member of the Legion Of Microsoft Haters
robots.cnn.com is up and responsive with the latest info
I would hate to see Al Gore's response to this.
Got Rhinos?
I vote them
My brother works in Brooklyn and had a good view of the towers. After hearing the first impact, his entire office (Bear Stearns) went to see what went on. Then the whole office got to see the second crash, and the subsequent collapses.
I have family in NYC, and thankfully they are alright. Phone service is sporadic, all bridges and tunnels have been shut down, as well as the entire NYC subway system. My brother and brother-in-law are stranded in Manhattan.
When was the previous Bin Laden attack? Is it some sort of religious day? Specific year?
A different kind of animal
http://www.terrorism.com/calendar/September.html
Since this page is almost impossibly slow to load just now, perhaps relevant excerpts:
09/09/1993
Middle East
PLO-Israeli Mutual Recognition
The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and Israel signed a mutual recognition agreement.
09/13/1993
Middle East
Israeli-PLO Peace Pact
Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) signed a peace agreement in Washington, D.C. outlining a plan for Palestinian self-rule in the Israeli-occupied territories.
GS http://www.unblinking.com
Apologies to Red Cross for copying from their website: (http://www.redcross.org/news/ds/0109wtc/010911wtc _02.html)
Red Cross Responds to World Trade Center, Pentagon and Pittsburgh Plane Crashes
Security atop buildings near the White House in Washington DC stand ready for any possible attacks.
September 11, 2001 -- Two aircraft collided into the upper floors of the World Trade Center towers Tuesday morning (Sept. 11), and black smoke poured out of two gaping holes in the buildings. Both towers collapsed a short while after the explosions.
There was no immediate word on injuries or fatalities in the World Trade Center disasters, which happened around 9 a.m.
Shortly thereafter, a plane reportedly collided into the Pentagon in Arlington, Va.
Yet another plan crashed outside Pittsburgh, about an hour after the Pentagon crash. It is still unclear if this crash is related to the others.
The Federal Aviation Administration has reportedly shut down all airports in the nation.
CNN reported that the FBI is investing reports that the planes were hijacked. One of the planes was reportedly an American Airlines 767.
The American Red Cross has immediately responded to the disasters. Details are sketchy as to what has actually occurred, but the Red Cross has activated its Aviation Incident Response (AIR) Team to respond in New York City, and trained disaster workers from the American Red Cross of Greater New York and the National Capitol Chapter in Washington, D.C. are providing relief in the affected areas.
80,000 blood donations in the American Red Cross blood inventory are ready to ship to affected areas and will ensure that patients' lives are saved. Donors who wish to give blood in the coming days to replenish the nation's blood supply are encouraged to call 1-800-GIVE-LIFE to make an appointment.
In the wake of these traumatic events lies a wide path of catastrophic physical and psychological destruction in which countless victims will require assistance. In addition to meeting the physical needs of the affected regions, the American Red Cross will be providing crisis mental health counseling.
The Red Cross AIR Team has been activated and is responding in New York City and Boston, where one of the flights that struck the World Trade Center originated. Made up of leadership teams from all Red Cross disaster relief functions, the AIR Team responds when activated through the Aviation Disaster Family Assistance Act of 1996. This act charged the National Transportation Safety Board with designating an organization to provide for the emotional needs of victims, family members and rescue workers. NTSB selected the American Red Cross because of our nationally recognized mental health counseling program.
A representative from the Keystone Chapter in Johnston, Pa., (the chapter closest to the plane crash outside Pittsburgh), said that a disaster action team has been mobilized. Additionally, meals are being prepared to be distributed to relief workers and victims at the scene.
well usa needs to ask itself why is this happening in the usa and not in england or some other european country. could it be that usa is terrorising korea, iran, iraq and other countries and that they are simple revenging for deads of thousands of their own people that usa causes every year.
Can you belive this ?!?!?!
1 0911/aponline114906_000.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/200
> - Thousands of Palestinians celebrated Tuesday's terror attacks in the United States, chanting "God is Great" and distributing candy to passers-by, even as their leader, Yasser Arafat, said he was horrified.
- sigs are for wimps.
If they're going to say anything, it'll appear here.
I'm sorry to say this, but in many ways US deserves this 100%
You see, when Pakistan attacked India, or when Palestines bombed Israel, your govt. was talking about bilateral talks and all that crap.
Now I'd like to see how you ppl would "talk it out".
When terrorist nations like Pakistan and Afghanistan are housing a million terrorist groups like Hizbul Mujahideen, Lakshar-e-Taiba etc, and when these guys openly bombed New Delhi, the US Govt self righteously proclaimed that it has "faith" in Pakistan and other fundamentalist countries, and it would contain further such incidents.
Infact, despite a lot of evidence, US refuses to declare Pakistan and a host of other nations as terrorist nations.
I'd like to see you people "talk it out." I really would.
And hey, if any of the moderators think of this as a troll, I'm very sorry. You are just being hypocritical.
Remember this - a lot of countries - esp. India and Israel did the mistake of letting "freedom" movements out of hands that blew into enormous explosions right on their faces. Just ensure that this does not happen to you. Please.
Thank you.
It's a London number. If you are worried about friends or family, you should call
0201 008 0000
May god bless those affected.
--jon
Cleanstick.org: Dumb weblog about nothing
Every American should think about the following:
.. or .. these attempts have been happening unbeknownst to public and the security agencies have been sticking their fingers in a dam that's about to collapse..
What horrors would one had to commit to provoke such an attack? Don't assume a true heart of evil in those terrorists. Even with my less-than-exhastive knowledge of US foreign policy, such acts don't seem entirely unforeseen.
Which brings me to my next point:
Do the comments by former important NATO dude et Al.. seem somewhat blaise and unsurprised? Why is this? I see two cases, either they've been preparing for this sort of attack for quite some time and it final happen regardless of the safeguards
Which brings me to my final point..
I certainly hope that this is the end and not the beginning. The US is a prideful and patriotic country. If the president and military leaders value the safety and lives of their people, perhaps compassion and sober reflection for the innocents thus killed is in order, and not prideful, vengeful crys of bloodlust.
Biological and chemical terrorism is something which is a bit of a boogey-man. We will probably never see a devestating attack using these means because they are simply too costly. However, the threat of a threat could be effective (in other words a claim is more important than the reality).
Now, there are a few things that have occurred to me about these events:
1: The planes must have been flown by the terrorists into the buildings. I have a hard time believing that a pilot of an airliner would be at the helm and be a part of such an attack.
2: This is an attack which would have been very difficult for a small organization to pull off. A large support organization would have been necessary for the necessary piloting expertise and intellegence work. Although this could have been state-sponsored, there is no reason at this time to think that it was.
3: One cannot adequately protect against suicide terrorists. There are too many otherwise inocuous items which can be, under the right circumstances, lethal weapons. The only defense against suicide terrorists is attack the morale of their organizations.
The reason why I suspect that this attack originated in the Middle East is that they are the only region of the world which a) has suffered enough at the hands of Europe and America to create that sort of response and b) has the resources at their disposal for such an attack. (Yes, I have studied my Middle East history, and a should point out that Britain was probably more a part of the problem than the US, but the US has been the present main player in the region).
IMO, we will eventually have to adopt a different policy toward the OPEC nations which aims to foster their economic independence (and live with the higher oil prices) or come to terms with the fact that low oil prices will be bought with human lives. Terrorism is expensive both in lives of supporters and in material resources, and this attack indicates that we as a country (America) have not adequately targeted the morale and/or finances of the terrorist organizations.
Don't get me wrong. I think that terrorism should be fully prosecuted etc. and I think that people who use innocent victims as weapons against a larger enemy deserve no respect, I think that, for the sake of security, we need to create a comprehensive plan which aims not only at attacking the actual terrorists, but also reducing the support they have from economically powerful people by responding to some of the root economical realities which have fostered terrorism in many areas of the world (but especially the Middle East).
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
I believe we have awoken a sleeping giant....
This will unite America like nothing else. People may say we are egocentric and that this like this happen. But this strike was against civilian and military targets. If you make the American people worry about where they live, we will demand of our government to remove that threat. It is not world opinion that motivates most Americans, it is her people.
To sum this up, Americans are very pissed. Somebody has to pay.
TS
I can't find the article, but /. recently posted an article about the richardson, tx isp that was raided due to suspicion of ties to Hamas. There was a huge outcry. I would like to say that if the FBI reads your email and discovers that you like handjobs from your brother you might be embarassed, but I think that any concerns you have pale in comparasion to the death of thousands. The internet is not a private exchange, it is a public place. Act accordingly and stop your bitching.
Why didn't the NSA know about this? What ever happend to Carnivore?
.
.
.
Or did they know?
My step father was on the way to the towers for a meeting. He was 10 blocks away when he saw the first crash.
He wrecked his rental car into a parked car while watching.
What will the insurance company's do about this one?
Are we all gonna feel the $$$ of this tragedy???
When is the Big texan who runs this boat...gonna step up...and shoot the damn planes left....that are still in the air....THOSE NEED TO COME DOWN...before a close call...becomes a wakeup call.
*ba-ding bing*
In a more Slashdotty vein, the CNN, MSNBC, and ABCNews web sites were all submitted to a relentless DDOS attack this morning, and it appears the people coordinating them are getting more and more creative....
(Sorry. Humor helps me cope.)
I used to work there, their entire staff is in the 70's and 80's floors of one of the second tower that fell. the Porth Authority is utterly destroyed as a organization, I hope many made it out alive but it doesnt look good at all
The last country that awoke this sleeping giant
paid a terrible price. I fear today's tragedy is
only the begining. I think you could measure the life expectency of the Taliban as well as Bin Laden in hours. If you live in Kabul, I suggest you put your head between your legs and kiss your ass good bye!!!
Do we have a hotline to call for information on friend and relatives in the area?
London evacuating? I have heard that nowhere else.
Michael
---
BDOS ERR ON A:>
The subway platforms are packed with people trying to leave the city. The mood is very sombre and some are in tears.
Again, I think I can speak for every Canadian when I send our deepest sympathies .
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
BTW, big thanks to Slashdot: Taco, you did the right thing.
I am a U.S. citzen and I left the U.S. a
few weeks ago as I felt it was arrogant,
bully, racist and facist. By leaving I had
given up hope the U.S. would change as there would be justice for all the wrong that is
done; the death, poverty, hate, suffering
the U.S. has spread. Here I am now safe in
Canada saying "This is what I was afraid of"
Texas aint the biggest anymore
The truly fucking remarkable thing about this is that a concerted terrorist effort involving multiple hijackings and bombs has killed tens of thousands of Americans in an act that will probably motivate acts of war. Perspective! Jesus Christ, the only perspective here is that MOST people don't know that freaking Slashdot exists.
* SF is now on a stage 2 alert.
* Pacific stock exchange closed.
* Hiway 4 closed to tanker accident.
* No traffic near Oakland airport.
* CalTrans ordered all employees off bridges.
* Extra police security on all bridges and security on public transit.
--- I do not moderate.
My college (Youngstown State) as well as the University of Akron (where my girlfriend goes) have been closed as a result of this event.
Update:
My girlfriend now reports that the University of Akron is being evacuated, as the Polymer Science building is a large supplier of the nation's polymer needs. All hell seems to breaking loose; very surreal
We dance to all the wrong songs.
--Refused.
The company I work for does satellite phones, and we are currently activating lots of them for the emergency response groups in New York and DC. Still, do please try to keep off the ground lines.
Waiting for a time when I can finally say, this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way -Phish
The Pentagon has NOT been hit again. The report was denied in the time frame I posted it.
There were probably more people than that...
The whole thing was too syncronized...
There were around 50,000 people in the World Trade Center at the time... That's prety close to how many people died in Vietnam...
Only 2-3000 people died in Pearl Harbor... How many died today ??? Way more...
It was hard to tell from the pictures.
This is typical of a bunch of geeks: The only reason why this story and the one before it were posted is because they couldn't get to MSNBC and other news sites. I think someone needs to get a life.
www.thetimes.co.uk is still up... they have a story, the Palestinians are throwing candy in the air and celebrating the attack.
It seems that the "BBC World Live!" for Quicktime is working well.
I would really like you to be on my side but the side you show me isn't what I had in mind -Judybats
For any UK readers worried about family in lower Manhattan or en route to the US, the Foreign Office have issued this helpline number:
020 7008 0000
No guarantee as to its accuracy. Someone I know who tried it just now said it wasn't working.
Many many many dead.
Don't turn this into a sensationist media extravaganza. By implying that the nation is in chaos, you are giving the terroists exactly what they want. The psychological element of terrorist attacks are potentially a lot more powerful than the actual physical attack.
Yes, this a tradgedy, but we don't exactly have rivers of blood flowing through the streets of every city.
Updates to clari.usa.top are coming fairly frequently. There's a timeline of events.
My real fear is that the US government will wildly overreact to this. You think security was annoying to go through at airports before? And if you look at all Arabic, prepare for a body-cavity search before they let you on a plane - okay, not really, but there are a lot of folks with misguided anger.
Let us try to keep in mind that most people of Arabic descent and most people living in Middle-Eastern countries are not terrorists. The Slashdot community doesn't seem too bad on this one, but I have talked with several friends and co-workers who appear a bit more reactionary.
BinLauden on the other hand, I say send in the SEALs!
The Digital Sorceress
All the same ideas were put forward a few years ago when the Federal building was bombed.
......."It was one of us????"
"It's Saddam!" "It's Palestine!" "It's Bin Lauden"
So until someone offical stands up and says; "Hi, it was me and here is proof." and the US gov says "Yup, they did it, we are going to bomb them into yesterday." I'm not blaming anyone.
However, it's probably Lybia...they have been to quiet.
I have been watching a continuous video feed for the past hour from http://www.sky.com/skynews/home/
BTW, they www.sky.com runs Solaris. So does washingtonpost.com - which was one of the few sites that was up. I don't promote Solaris - but it is interesting.
i've got unconfirmed reports of a plane down at Camp Pendleton in San Diego county....
how the hell can you guys troll me for this, If you heard the press release by MS you would be thankful for what bill gates said. he told the news basicly this; "if people think that they can attack the strongest county in the world and get away with it, they're wrong. Microsoft will rebuild the World Trade Centers" - in no way did i even slightly imply that this was fuckin funny, so to hell with any of you that think that my first post was even slightly sarcastic, because it was nowhere near that.
This is a terrorist attack.
Its main purpose was to strike fear into the hearts of Americans, and to cause our economy to collapse. If everyone is afraid, then the economy WILL collapse.
The emergency workers are busy. The military is obviously busy. Go to work and conduct your business as well as possible. Unless you are working in one of the obviously dangerous areas.
They only beat us if we let our fear win.
I'm not a soldier. I'm not a fireman or paramedic. I'm not a police man. But I'm going to work today, and I'm testing software, and I'm making sure that my little cog in the big machine keeps turning.
Now, we're going to see what kind of a leader dubbya is. I have very grave doubts about his ability to deal with this situation rationally - think martial law - think more raids in Iraq - think more raids in Afghanistan. Think Arab Americans being rounded up (I'm sorry, but you know this will happen). There isn't much we can do about those things other than keep a cool head, and do your job as best as you can.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Warner Home Video have announced the release of three volumes of the classic BBC sci-fi series Dr Who, all due for release on 11th September 2001. - First is Doctor Who: The Robots Of Death
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
"Fire" damage didn't do it. If you didn't see the video of the second impact, a Boeing 737 large enough to carry 60-70 people smashed right into the side of it, and an explosion came out the other side. That's going to cause a *lot* of internal structural damage. And once the top floors start to collapse, their weight and force punches right through the floors below.
Building codes aren't designed with events like this in mind, I'm afraid.
It's Dubya who had no Middle East Policy, who has supported the use of USA-made fighters, gunships and tanks against the Palestinian civilians, who gives Bin Laden fuel for his hatred, just like his father George Herbert did, over the edge when the WTC was first car-bombed.
First we had a collapse of USA foreign policy. Now we have a collapse of the peace that lasted from WWII until today. This is what happens when our courts appoint drugged-out idiots to run our country. You are absolutely crazy to feel that what has happend in any sense validates Dubya. It is his support of military force against innocent Palestinians that drove Bin Laden to this, just as his father's support of military force against the Iraqui's fueled Bin Laden's hatred a decade ago.
There is only one way to make this stop. We must seize control of our government back from the conspirators who now run it and to begin a policy of fair treatment of others, the world around, starting in Palestine and putting an end to the Israeli war against the Palestinian people in their own 'country'.
The Sydney Morning Herald has info and pictures. And the site also hasn't been /.ed.
Precisely the kind of roll-over pacifist crap that got us in this position in the first place.
...by Osama Bin Laden that there would be an "unprecedented attack on US interests".
According to the Washington Post, the Palestinian Democratic Party is denying any role in the attack...
How you see the world is how the world sees you.
http://www.timesofindia.com/articlelist.asp?parent _key=296589292&catkey=1811284689
comprehensive updates, and its up!
Downtown Toronto is being evacuated and shut down; the CN tower, the U.S. consulate, all slowly stopping. People are going home early from work, traffic has stopped. Pearson is allowing no flights to leave, and all flights for America are being routed here. Mostly, we're just shocked that this happened and people aren't able to work during such a tragedy.
Will these terrorist attacks continue and get worse, resulting in the government declaring martial law, whereupon the Army will take over N.Y.C. and other nearby cities? This is a very scary situation we're in. And just to think I had planned a trip to N.Y. last week (I live in Los Angeles), but cancelled at the last moment.
That's 40-50 thousand, not 40-500 thousand. Small difference.
Omnes arx vestrum sunt adiuncta nobis.
The last time something this big happened, someone ended up getting nuked.
bug.gd: error search engine. Humanity working together to solve all errors.
google has cached the cnn story on its front page.
if in AUSTRALIA you can call 1300 555 135 for information on friends and relatives.
I have no issue at this point with ALL OUT war. Nuclear force is acceptable. But where is the target????????
And you think what, that terrorists could have nuked this time, and were just going easy wiping out the WTC?
First of all, there's no one to go to war with. You can expect, however, that if it turns out a nation is harboring terrorists against justice, action will be taken.
Second of all, unless we are isolationists again, we're going to piss someone off somewhere. It is the unenviable consequence of world leadership. Not retaliating is not protection against further attacks. If we identify a perpetrator, there will be awful consequences.
Certainly, we must be cautious. We should take things slowly. Any response should be well-considered and deliberate...but not pacifistic.
Also, for those of you who live with an arabian population, or any other population likely to be targetted by irrational retaliation, don't let others take their anger out on other Americans, regardless of their ethnic origins. Arabian-Americans are Americans, too.
Inapropriate Slashdot Quote of the Day:
"Do you smell something burning or is it me?"
If the pilots of those planes were armed with guns, then this wouldn't have happened. The police and the government can't protect us. We have to protect ourselves. Think about it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Bin Laden warned of "unprecedented" attack
London - Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden warned three weeks ago that he and his
followers would carry out an unprecedented attack on US interests for its support of
Israel, an Arab journalist with access to him said on Tuesday.
Abdel-Bari Atwan, editor of the London-based al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper said
Islamic fundamentalists led by bin Laden was "almost certainly" behind the attack of
the World Trade Center in New York.
"It is most likely the work of Islamic fundamentalists. Osama bin Laden warned three
weeks ago that he would attack American interests in an unprecedented attack, a
very big one," Atwan told said.
"Personally we received information that he planned very, very big attacks against
American interests. We received several warnings like this. We did not take it so
seriously, preferring to see what would happen before reporting it."
Atwan has interviewed bin Laden and maintains close contacts with his followers.
Two planes crashed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center as office workers
began work on Tuesday morning, causing the south tower to collapse, eyewitnesses
said.
In Washington, another plane crashed next to the Pentagon, a US official said.
Eyewitnesses said the building was being evacuated. The White House and State
Department were also evacuated.
A Palestinian group claimed responsibility, Abu Dhabi television said. President
George W Bush called it an "apparent terrorist attack," and pledged the US
government would "hunt down" those responsible. - Reuters
Published on the Web by IOL on 2001-09-11 16:47:02
Looking for information, I went to www.worldtradecenter.com.
All that appears is a message saying "this domain available for memorial or other purpose".
Looked up the domain at register.com.
It was last updated YESTERDAY.
That was the statement I heard brodcast twice this morning, anyway--possibly it was edited.
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
This is what frightens me about the US response. On past performance, there's a tendency to keep the great American moron^w public happy by randomly attacking Muslims, or Arabs. The people celebrating are Palestinians, who been on the end of activity that, were it performed by any other nation, would be condemned as warcrimes. Israel routinely kills non-combatant civilians in retaliation for attacks. This is not the way to stop people who already hate your guts, stop hating you! There is NO MILITARY SOLUTION to this.
Those of you (Americans) who try to be thoughtful about this, /PLEASE/ try to avoid knee-jerk "It's the ay-rabs!" jingoism. I realise that revenge must be the first thought in many people's minds. Try to remember, the people who did this WERE ON THE PLANES and they're ALREADY DEAD. Modulo Bin Laden or whoever.
Now, offing him would get my support...
i have set up a mirror of more pics and video of the crash here
I'm starting an image archive of the events (I'm blatently taking them from the news sites). Just an attempt to mirror some of the pictures to take the load off of the servers. http://warpenguin.com. Pls mirror.
I wonder if this could have been averted if the FBI put their resources into preventing terrorism instead of things like Carnivore, and arresting Russian programmers. Granted Carnivore is supposed to prevent things like these, but terrorists that have the ability to coordinate an attack of this scale won't be using conventional email to communicate anyway. I hope they don't try to use this to outlaw encryption.
Practice random senselessness and act kind of beautiful.
You're so fucking full of shit. Going through metal detectors does not take away any of your rights, it's perfectly reasonable. So don't complain. They've saved countless lives already through prevention, so you should thank god everyday for those metal detectors. But instead you pretend this is the "evil government" or something, trying to take away your rights. This terrorist attack was so well coordinated, it would have been close to impossible to do anything about it, so don't you fucking dare blame others for it. Asshole.
Be serious. This is an act of war. The WTC is gone! More people were killed today than in the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
And the above post's sentiment of "let's play nice now or someone will get hurt" is ridiculous. It is a little too late for that. Many innocent Americans lost their lives today in a cowardly attack on this country. I hope that the perpetrators (whoever they are) find US vengeance to be swift, merciless, and complete.
I am in Vancouver, BC.
I hear all border crossings are open.
I haven't seen MP's.
(besides, they put soldiers on the street, not MP's)
The Washington Post (one of the few news sites I'm able to access) is running several Q&A sessions with reporters/experts. One chat[1] is finished and a few more are scheduled for today.1 /freemedia_kaiser091101.htm
;
[1]: http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/zforum/0
Actually, there were 3 planes hitting the towers.
I've been to the World Trade Center dozens of times. I know (knew?) people who worked there. I can't believe they're gone. I'm watching CNN, ABC, NBC and CBS all at once on my antique TV set collection, and it's all so surreal.
I'm a Canadian computer geek with military radar and electronics experience working for a huge American defense contractor. I've held IATA airport security clearance.
I fear World War III is following. I'm willing to help. I'm willing.
Allow me to take a moment to voice my solidarity with the people of the United States, the American government and even President Bush.
This is war.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
Unconfirmed yet, but it seems that here in Europe (Slovenia) people have been hearing US army planes flying above their heads all day long (before the attacks).
Call me paranoid, but I think the army knew.
boky
I visited that website a few hours ago and it said "Domain for sale, contact ...."
it has just been changed very recently
don't start shit son
I wonder if it occurred to the retarded villains who committed this hideous act that they might have blown up a bunch of their own country-men. I know for a fact that there is a sizable population of Palestinian and Middle Eastern immigrants living and working in NYC. :(
Is this just sheer volume of normal interest, or is the implication here that there's some sort of DOS going on?
I hope not. I really DON'T want any "Emergency Executive Orders" dropping draconian regulations on the 'net in the USA...
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
Was this intentional?
QOTD: "Do you smell something burning or is it me?" -- Joan of Arc
jeezus christ slashdot makes me FUCKEN SICK to my stomach when something is humerous in a VERY NON HUMOROUS EVENT
http://mfile.akamai.com/920/rm/thepost.download.ak amai.com/920/msnbc/ms091101-4v.rm?obj=v0004
Quote from the...
"But Professor Paul Rogers, of Bradford University's peace department, warned against assuming Middle East extremists were behind the tragedy.
"We've been here before. With Oklahoma, everybody assumed it was Middle East [terrorists], then it turned out to be home-grown Timothy McVeigh," he said. "Again with the pipe bomb in Atlanta, it
turned out to be domestic."
For those of you (like myself) who don't have a TV or radio in your cube, and who are bemoaning that there's not enough bandwidth for CNN to serve the entire country simultaneously, try CNET Radio. No pictures, but good radio coverage.
Some good news -- the FAA has just reported that *all* commercial aircraft are now accounted for (there were about 50 in question), and have reported no problems, and are en route to nearby airports.
Ernest MacDougal Campbell III
geek ramblings
robots.cnn.com And now I have to put something here because the postercompression filter sucks.
I am from Newfoundland Canada, and our airports are the destination for many re-routed flights. Goose-Bay Labrador is expected to DOUBLE its population because it is a small city with a very large airport.
As for St. John's (where I am) we have gotten at least a dozen planes and we are expecting more. I'm considering going to the airport to volunteer for any help I can.
-underdog
it comes naturally that you blame somone by default, when he has been thretening of duing just this for awhile.
The Palestinians have claimed responsibility for this attack. They are celebrating in the streets. Check out this news story:
t /i ndex.html
http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2001/09/11/arafa
They have stood up and declared themselves to be the enemy. Bad things will happen to them. The US troops are already on their way. If they thought the Israelis were treating them bad before, they haven't seen anything yet.
Just about year ago I boarded a flight from Detroit to Chicago with not just my usual sharp objects, but also a power screwdriver, set of Motorola trunking radios and their charger, and assorted spare batteries, all in my carry-on. Didn't get a second glance from security.
Those days are over.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
It's interesting that today's date is Sept 11 or
911
Hmmm!
I think this was posted in the last story, but I've found it to be an OK up-to-the-minute source..
t .asp?siteid=mktw
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/newsfinder/defaul
Just watching that go by every minute, and seeing the events go on is just disgusting..I've been nauseous all morning just seeing everything happen little by little..yuck.
"My days are less enjoyable because of people." ~ Johnny the Homicidal Maniac
I can't find any signifigance of today's date, as a possible explanation. The Oklahoma City bombing was the anniversary of Waco or somesuch; perhaps there is a similar connection here?
i s_ Day_in_History/
"Today in history" sites:
http://dir.yahoo.com/Arts/Humanities/History/Th
I can't find a good list of common Palestinian holidays, though...
Here's the biggest list I could find (from http://www.scopesys.com/anyday/ )
1609 Henry Hudson discovers Manhattan island
1709 English, Dutch & Austrians defeat French in Battle of Malplaquet
1773 Benjamin Franklin writes "There never was a good war or bad peace."
1777 Battle of Brandywine, Pa; Americans lose to British
1786 Annapolis Convention to determine interstate commerce
1789 Alexander Hamilton appointed Secretary of the Treasury
1814 Battle of Lake Champlain, NY; Americans defeat British
1839 1st Canadian track & field meet held (Caer Howell Grounds)
1850 "Swedish Nightingale" Jenny Lind gives 1st US concert
1852 Olympia Columbian is 1st newspaper published north of Columbia R
1853 1st electric telegraph in use, Merchant's Exchange to Pt Lobos
1875 1st newspaper cartoon strip
1881 Triple landslides bury Elm Switz
1885 Moses Hopkins, named minister to Liberia
1886 Mayflower (US) beats Galatea (England) in 7th America's Cup
1889 Start of the Sherlock Holmes adventure "The Crooked Man" (BG)
1893 Bronx Gas & Electric Company opens on Frisby & Tremont Ave
1910 1st commercially successful electric bus line opens (Hollywood)
1912 Phila A's Eddie Collins steals 6 bases in 1 game
1918 Boston Red Sox beat Chicago Cubs, 4 games to 2 in 15th World Series
1919 US marines invade Honduras
1922 British mandate of Palestine begins
1923 After a single, Red Sox Howard Ehmke retires the next 27 Yanks
1923 The ZR-1 (biggest active dirigible) flies over NY's tallest skyscraper, the Woolworth Tower
1926 Aloha Tower dedicated in Honolulu
1926 US defeats France for their 7th straight Davis Cup championship
1926 Yanks' Bob Meusel ties record with 3 sacrifice flies
1927 Babe Ruth hits 50th of 60 homers
1928 1st TV drama-WGY's The Queens Messenger
1929 SF Mayor Rolph inaugurates new pedestrian traffic light system
1930 Stomboli volcano (Sicily) throws 2-ton basaltic rocks 2 miles
1935 US captures Davis Cup for 7th straight year
1936 A's pitcher Horace Lisenbee gives up 26 hits in a game
1936 FDR dedicates Boulder Dam, now known as Hoover Dam
1941 Charles Lindbergh, charges "the British, the Jewish & the Roosevelt administration" are trying to get the US into WW II
1941 FDR orders any Axis ship found in American waters be shot on sight
1944 FDR & Churchill meet in Canada at the 2nd Quebec Conference
1946 1st mobile long-distance car-to-car telephone conversation
1950 1st typesetting machine to dispense with metal type exhibited
1950 33 die in a train crash in Coshocton Ohio
1950 Dick Tracy TV show sparks uproar concerning violence
1951 Florence Chadwick becomes 1st woman to swim the English Channel from England to France. It takes 16 hours & 19 minutes
1952 West German Chancellor Adenauer signs a reparation pact for Jews
1954 1st Miss America TV broadcast
1956 Cincinnati Red Frank Robinson ties rookie record with his 38th HR
1959 Elroy Face's 22 game win streak ends as Dodgers beat Pirates 5-4
1959 Oriole Jerry Walker pitches 16 inn beating White Sox 1-0
1960 The 17th Olympic games close in Rome
1961 Bob Dylan's 1st NY performance
1962 Beatles cut "Love Me Do" & "PS I Love You"
1964 George Harrison forms Mornyork Ltd music publishing company
1964 Gillette's 20 year contract with MSG & ABC to televise fights for free ends as Dick Tiger defeats Don Fullmer at the Cleve Auditorium
1965 Beatles' "Help!," album goes #1 & stays #1 for 9 weeks
1966 Johnny Miller became the 1st Yank to hit a HR on his 1st at bat
1967 US Surveyor 5 makes 1st chemical analysis of lunar material
1972 BART begins service with a 26-mi (42-km) line from Oakland to Fremont
1973 Chile's President, Salvador Allende, deposed in a military coup
1974 Cards beat Mets, 4-3, in 25 (7h4m), record 202 plate appearances, Felix Milan & John Milner come to bat 12 times each
1976 Evonne Goolagong loses her 4th straight US Open Final (Evert wins)
1977 Guillermo Vilas beats Jimmy O'Connors wins US Open
1977 TV's Rhoda gets divorced
1982 Chris Evert 6th US open title defeats Hana Mandlikava
1983 Franco Harris becomes 3rd NFL to rush 11,000 yards
1985 Intl Cometary Explorer (ISEE 3) passes Giacobini-Zinner by 7900 km
1985 Pete Rose of the Cin Reds gets career hit 4,192 off Eric Show of San Diego Padres, eclipsing Ty Cobb's record
1986 Dow Jones Industrial Avg suffered biggest 1-day decline ever, plummeting 86.61 points to 1,792.89. 237.57 million shares traded
1988 Sports Aid-jogging to feed the world
1989 Drexel formally pleads guilty to security fraud
1989 KSO-AM in Des Moines Iowa changes call letters to KGGO
1991 "La Toya: Growing Up in the Jackson Family" goes on sale
1991 14 die in a Continental Express commuter plane crash near Houston
---
CNN's web design is normally like any typical
bloated corporate site -- lame, full of crap you
don't need, hard to view on some browsers... but
now with USA attack the design is actually freaking AWESOME! You can view it great in mozilla, lynx, emacs w3, palm pilots, teletypes,
freaking ANYthing!
Here are emergency contact numbers for the airlines with planes down.
American Airlines - 800-245-0999
United Airlines - 800-923-8555
I am me...I think
Most of us in the U.S. say, rather glibly, that we're willing to "pay the price" for our freedom. Well, tragic though it was, here it is. If we lived in a police state, this would not be possible. Then again, I don't think there would be much of a country left.
Many have called for a "response". Our responses are, of course, already under way and I have faith that no matter how much I may push back against the expanding power of our TLAs and millitary, they are more than able to flush out the culprits for this attack, and remove their threat. If not, our tax dollars are ill-spent.
However, if we sacrifice one shred of our heritage of freedom because of this, then no matter how much we "respond", we've already lost. In times of peace, it's easy to stand up for our freedom. Today, it takes something more, and I ask all of you to rise to the occasion.
Defend the rights of those who will be attacked because they share skin color with those claiming responsibility. Don't give up fights for our freedom on the Net. Cherish your privacy and even your anonymity. If we can keep level heads through this, we will prove ourselves worthy of our nation and the sacrifice of those before us.
News from WTOP FM, Manassas/Washington DC
;-)
All members of 377th told to report for duty.
VA National Guard Mobilized
There are dead at the Pentagon. NONE OF THE CHILDREN IN THE PENTAGON DAYCARE WERE HARMED (thank G_d).
Nothing new on 2nd suspected hijacked airplane in DC area (I heard the F-16's flying around out here, south of and very near Dulles Intl., I work very close to the NRO HQ). Been up here on the 4th floor of my building looking
Thretcon B is now in effect in the Military Distrect of Washington/National Capital Region.
Verizon is asking all people to stay off of ANY phone (wireless or landline) in the DC area.
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
Berlin has closed all roads in the vicinity of the government quarters. The U.S. embassy is heavily guarded. Chancellor Schröder has called up the national security council. Also watch http://www.indymedia.org when it is back on-line.
http://overtone.org/sass/tower-collapse.mpg
In the immortal words of Benjamin Franklin. They that can give up an essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1759
Let's keep the truly remarkable thing in mind about this: we heard about it on Slashdot first. Great job, guys.
/. first. A sense of perspective would be nice...
The truly remarkable thing is that someone can get news of such a huge disaster and comment that they heard it on
I bet it was CISCO.... they tried to slashdot the entire net to prove that the net needs their new 10GB routers to handle a large amount of traffic
but it is indeed burning.
c am s/eyeondc.htm
see the washingtonpost webcam
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/mmedia/web
Well I am incanada. I was watching the towers come down live. This is nuts, up here in the toronto area, the down town core has been cleared of peple. We up here are scared like those in the states. I am only 2 hr from NY so its not hard to see them hitting us here eather. Think about the CN tower. The world trade center is a icon line the CN tower is, so it is scary to think about this, but they may hit it. Just a messed thought going on around my programing firm
my 2 cents plus 2 more
But everyone knows all that already. At least what I said was news. Life goes on, and I'm already tired of hearing people talk on and on about how nobody knows anything new and meanwhile they're getting paid to speculate, conjecture and fill time.
That Slashdot once again survived an unintentional DDos attack in a time of crisis, that the major news sites could not, is worthwhile information. People are coming to Slashdot to share information. What a feat.
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" "The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" -- Nostradamus 1654 I'm pretty sure this is word for word, feel free to double check.
When you think you've seen it all:
People Celebrating the attack
My wife made the observation that a cross country flight has a lot of fuel, makes a big impact. So hopefully that means that all local flights are safe(r).
Good job to slashdot for being one of the better (if not the only) site up and running strong.
jem
This is just another form of expression -- really just free speech in a way. It's one "symbol" to whoever committed this tragedy that, to them, served some view of "justice". After all, we killed McVeigh. Who are you and I to say that 50,000 dead in the U.S. wasn't "just" -- until you have heard all the facts from the misguided fools who thought it would be. Remember: when death is an O.K. form of expression toward Justice, then you can only call political deaths unwarranted when you have seen the reasons for which they were committed and you, personally, agree that those reasons did not serve a just cause. As of now, you don't know those reasons. So don't diss the most somber tragedy in the peaceable history of our nation -- it's just another form of expression, and as of now, you don't know what it's trying to express or why.
(I don't mean what I think I mean.)
people should pray for the dead and do anything they can for the living (donate blood is a good example).
:(
and people should try to use their mind and understand that by wiping out some 3rd world country (which is very likely to happen - regardless of who is or may be responsible) is
not the brightest thing to do.
i may also sound cynical but americans should think of other bombards (iraq, yugoslavia etc). the terrorist attacks in usa has some similarities with the (not so) surgical military attacks, and all of them should be condemned.
good luck everybody and stay alert for I am afraid that we'll see worst
They are GOD GIVEN rights, IE you are born with them and they CANNOT be taken away.....
By your logic, the American revolution was unjust.
The goal of society is Mutual respect for its citizens. I respect your right to life if you respect mine, etc.
To try and suspend these rights does EXACTLY what the terrorists are after!
Better we stop playing policeman to the world.....
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
Stuck here in Windsor working for a trucking company. Roads and bridges are shut down, Ontario's main two highways closed as well.
I was supposed to be in a meeting at Ford world headquarters in Dearborn, MI today. That's been cancelled as well.
It's amazing how far this act has really reached!
I can't seem to get the eBay page up.
.pdf copy of it here.
Find a
http://www.eswerve.com/slashdot/ebay1.pdf
Emergency crews need communications much more than anyone else right now.
Ahh... out of the mouths of morons.
You obviously don't know anything about telecommunications.
Modern switching equipment will automatically drop 'regular' calls to allow 911 and other emergency calls through. It's not possible to get a busy signal on a 911 call due to telco switches being overloaded.
Looking at where those flights were headed -- east coast to west coast, they were all fueled up when they hit their targets. Talk about a mess. Not only did they pick the targets for max psyc damage, but also for max physical damage. I wonder how many managed to get out of the buildings when liquid fire was raining from the upper floors...
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
And what did Reagan do after the car bomb took out, what was it, more than 300 marines?
Didn't he just pull 'em out?
If only Encryption was banned this second perl harbour would never have happened......
.net
This will be used as an excuse to clamp down even harder on encryption and 'privacy' on the
Maybe you live in interesting times
one thing i didn't see in your news report:
in Israel,
some palestinian camps (not sure exactly who, sorry) are celebrating this event and are throwing candies (and handing out flags?) in the streets.
plus shooting in the sky, that is sure and confirmed, but that is usual behaviour in such conditions.
the palestinian authority is trying to hide it so it won't get to cameras and have said they have nothing to do with it.
sorry for the part truths, this is all something i semi-heard in the israeli radio (went home from the army when it happened), but i don't know of anything else that i can add.
just reporting what i heard not trying to get hatred towards anyone.
I was at the World Trade Center on Saturday the 8th of September, 2001....It was my first visit to the States from England and I was in awe at the city and WTC.
Some pictures from the top of and from the outside of the WTC are here: http://www.samsimpson.com/pictures.php?dir=galleri es/newyork/wtc/
Simply unbelievable :(
"Mary had a crypto key, she kept it in escrow, and everything that Mary said, the Feds were sure to know."
When I heard that the WTC had collapsed, I feared the worst and imagined it keeling over into neighboring buildings. When I finally saw the news footage of the event, I was amazed: it looked like a controlled demolition. The entire thing just cascaded downward as neatly as could be expected under the circumstances. Bravo to the structural engineers who kept this tragedy from being worse than it already is.
Sorry for the redundancy. I remember after the WTC and Oklahoma City bombings of reports of attacks against muslims and people of arabic descent, including harassment and mosques being vandalized.
I won't be surprised to hear organized calls to violence against a group of people as a result of this horrific act -- an attitude no better than that of a terrorist -- though I might be slightly surprised if such calls come from any standing politicians.
For an example of some rather nasty attitudes on a message board, check here [cnn.com].
Bleah. I'm a bit nervous because I couldn't get in touch with my sister who lives in Manhattan. My parents reported that she's fine and in Brooklyn, but she's absolutely frantic because she can't contact any of her friends.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
Given the organization of this attack, I would not be surprised if part of the reason for hitting the WTC was to cause predictable problems in the US stock market... problems that a terrorist organization could take advantage of to generate funds for their next attack.
I wonder if anyone has thought to look for suspicious patterns of stock investment and options that may lead back to terrorist front organizations.
I think there are benefits to an event like this(I wish it didn't involve disasters of course) but if you look at cnn and their current home page you will see that they did a MAJOR site re-design to get their page to serve easily over their available bandwidth(which is apparently much too small for their regular pages in a case of emergency). For those who still can't get it to load, it is one .jpg about two inches high and three inches wide and about ten or twelve bullet points.
This is a change for the better in my opinion, the news sources have themselves to blame for their high-bandwidth sites which obviously can't cut the mustard when the heat is on.
Steven
-- I have marked myself unwilling to moderate-- I don't have other accounts to artificially inflate the karma of
I'm responsible for some massive infrastructure in both Genuity and Exodus colocation, and both sites are seeing a huge traffic load on all 'news' web sites.
Other non-news web connections seem to be faring fine, the only DDoS is more along the lines of the Slashdot Effect, specific servers are getting many more users than they planned for, and are individually being overloaded.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
real karma for you....
Fact: Terrorists have been found to have bio weapon efforts. That's not saying that they have the actual weapons, but it means that they were trying to get them.
Fact: This was an all out attack. If they had them, they used them.
I packed a suitcase, and am getting several gallons of bottled water. Here in Florida, it'll come in handy in the event of a hurricane, anyway. I'm not bugging out, nor do I plan to... unless people start dying. I'm not alarmist, I don't expect to do anything... my gaming group is coming over tonight as usual. But I will prepare for the worst... if it sounds silly, think how yesterday this would have sounded: "Terrorists will knock down both towers of the World Trade Center, set the Pentagon on fire, and crash four passanger planes within two hours tomorrow morning".
I knew spending weeks in the woods in Scouts / hunting / the SCA would come in handy. ;) (That's a semi-joke, but it does feel good to know that if I *really* have to, I can do a couple months outside of civilization).
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
I personally won't be targetting Middle Easterns in my mind, but rather, whichever religion is at the base of these attacks.
If your God says it's OK to kill people, your God is fucked up.
"And like that
Larry Wall, riding a camel?
Carefree highway, let me slip away on you.
Supposedly the two planes that crashed into each World Trade Center buildings were both from Boston.
The plane which crashed in Western Pennsylvania was bound from Newark, New Jersey.
The United Nations is indeed evacuating according to CNN.com, which just seems to have a plain white page with a few lines of black text, and only one graphic.
Precisely the kind of roll-over pacifist crap that got us in this position in the first place.
Yeah, that's why all those European countries and Canada were all attacked first, right?
The original poster is correct. Think before you act, and when you do act, do so with tact and diplomacy. Remember Oklahoma City - all the frothing at the mouth about foreign terrorists, and it turned out to be an American.
Yeah, that'll stop the jealousy of those rouge states that want to hurt the US so badly. That will open thier eyes to understanding other religeons as, at the least, acceptable. And that will end all of the US's problems.
STFU, you're a fucking retard if you blame this on Bush.
good luck,
Dig past the "headline" pages to the "normal" news and find interesting things...
From the Globe and Mail, a story about how 5 days ago the U.S. banned novelist Salman Rushdie from all air travel in the U.S.::
Same alert? Did they know? Conspiricy theorists, come crawling out of the woodwork...
Full Story on www.globeandmail.com
372nd Military Police Command Activated (not 377th blablabla)
Just after first attack, US Military Aircraft were launched in NY and DC with orders to shoot down any hostile looking aircraft.
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
Do you mean the US Army, which trained McVeigh and 'lost' his records? Or perhaps you mean the ATF, which evacuated the OKC building... hmm... 24 hours before the bombing.
Carefree highway, let me slip away on you.
It is
9/11
or 911 which is the phone # for emergency (at least here in the states).
www.defenselink.mil, the official DOD website, is also unreachable.
will someone del this silly offensive cookie.
fortune says accidents never happen.
please mod up parent
Low tech attacks are hard to nuke. It takes few resources to kill or (beat into unconciousness) an airline pilot. Terrorism isn't vulnerable to military force. True, terrorists can be killed, but the "Men in the Walls" are harder to wipe out than cockroaches.
Before you make a comment about how 'eerie' this is, read the page. You'll see that this is NOT a quote from Nostradomus, but rater an attempt by the author of the webpage to show how if you make enough vague statements, evetually, sometime in the future, it will be "fulfilled". Seems like this has backfired on him this time.
Here is the quoted text:
"At this point I would like to introduce to you what I call the "Infinite Monkey's Principle." Let's say that I have aquired an infinite amount of monkeys and an infinite amount of typewritters or word processors (It doesn't matter). Of course, as far as we know that is impossible to do (Unless you buy factory direct from me--send 500 trillion dollars to me (gold bullion only, liquid assets are not negotiable) But I digress... If these Infinite Amount of Monkeys are allowed to bang out whatever they want on the infinite typewriter, one of them will produce the complete works of Shakespear.
How? Simple if the Monkey's write random garbage but in an infinite amount, eventually because of the simple fact that it is inevitable (simple probability thought shows this).
How does this apply to Nostradamus? Well I will show you...
If I make say a thousand prophecies that are fairly abstract for example:
In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb
Well let us analyse this. For Example what does City of God mean? It could be Mecca, Medina, Rome, Jeruselum, Salt Lake City, or any holy city depending on your religion. What do I mean by thunder--a storm? War? EarthQuake? lots of stuff can be described by thunder. There are a lot of two brothers on this world (I think the Number runs among the Billions) and fortress edure's what--Besiegement, Famine, etc? What Great Leader? How will he succumb? To what?
Now let the prophecy rest for a few years. Add a couple thousand more. Eventually, one of them will fit close enought with events that have happened in the future that the prophecy will appear to come true. If you make enough prophecies and are intelligent enough to word them in such a way that they are abstract you become instant future see-er person. For example those psychics you see every year that make predictions for the year 199-whatever generally get one or two out of ten predictions right. It is because they are good guessers and that there is enough of them to make it seem like people can really predict the future.
I am not discounting the possibility of a sixth sense nor of the supernatural but I would like to state that there is no scientifically proven Psychic person in the world. Ever psychic that says that she or he is a psychic and has been put to the test has failed quite miserably. It is true. There is no discounting that fact.
Further more, the Scholar's of Nostradomas seem to be taking further and further leaps in logic when they interpret his writings. For example this is a link to a page in which a person claims that Nostredomus prophesised the breakup of Canada. Click here to judge for yourself.
Further more I was watching a 1970's movie on Nostredamus and it predicted that the Third World War began in 1994 and was well on it's way by 1999. (I am holding my breath. Oh no!). The people who "analyse" the Quatrains simply scan through history until they find an event that seems to fit with the quatrain.
Perhaps Nostredamus was a futurist. I do not know. Perhaps he suffered some sort of mental illness (hardly unusual in 16th century Europe). Maybe he just had nothing better to do with his time. I do not think though that, faced with the evidence that science has shown, he was a true Psychic who could see the future. Call me a skeptic but I believe the "Phrase Innocent Until Proven otherwise" should be used to regulate any phenomena in Nature. (In this case it would be Scientifically Explainable unless shown otherwise. Or in the Case of Psychics you are not a Psychic unless you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that you have these "powers")
That is all."
+-- (Score:-1, Moderator on Power Trip)
Palestinians right now are celebrating the attack on the streets, in fact. Maybe you can shed light on that.
Only significant thing about today that I could find that relates:
9/11/1922 British mandate of Palestine begins
Two things to think about.
I've traveled around the world a bit, and realized that while most people (even in Iraq, Iran, and other parts of the Middle East) hold no particular ill will towards America/Americans, there are still hundreds of thousands millions who rightly view the USA as a state that condones and participates in terrorist activities.
It's no secret that the US govt. has sent guerillas and trained rebels to meddle in other countries affairs, set up idiotic puppet goverments to protect corporate interests and stifle democracy, bombed civilian targets, (accidentally I hope! but you can never really be sure...) and whatever else that I don't know about and can't think of because it never gets reported.
Now that doesn't mean that the US govt. is made up of the worst bad guys out there, but it does mean that people have REASONS to hate the US and aren't merely "crazy".
The second thing to think about is that outside the USA, Australia, Western Europe, the "1st world" et al. People do not have the same moral value system as we do. In countries where people scrape to make a living, human lives are considered somewhat less valuable, and there isn't much thought given to the pain and suffering individuals go through when tragedy strikes. (unless it's your own family, of course)
There's a non-Western mentality that has to be understood if we want to get to the bottom of who's behind these inconceiveable, unbelievable, horrifying attacks. No one but the most hardened criminals in our common society would ever even participate in something that would kill so many innocent people at once.
The people who did this have likely known pain and suffering beyond what any reader of this forum would believe. It's the only way they could ever be so heartless as to launch these attacks. To say that the suffering of others is trivial compared to their own.
It's always a shock to realize that the majority of the world's population don't share your values or morals. It's a lot easier for your average (middle-aged) Chinese, Indian, or African person to accept (but not condone) this kind of event as "just something that happens" because they're used to high mortality rates.
Enough rambling for now. On one hand I hope they get whoever did this and make them suffer, on the other hand I hope they don't because they'll probably get the wrong guy and hang him as a scapegoat.
can someone mod the parent back DOWN, please, so it's less likely to be noticed? Real smart to ANNOUNCE this, you fucking idiot.
John Kenneth Fisher
Table of malContents
Yes, we are in pain for humanity that this could happen at all. We are looking at the possible beginnings of war that touches us again. We do not want or need that.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
I don't know about the rest of /. Right now i'm damn glad I live in a country where I can own and firearm and form militia's.
.22 ammo about 15 minutes ago, wasn't quite mayhem at big5, but there was about 8 people at the gun counter, when usually there is no-one there.
I know alot of other people feel the same way I do, I just bought 6 bricks of
The silicon valley is going to be attacked. No doubt in my mind. I doubt any full scale invasion is going to happen, but from a tactical standpoint, we have several key targets.
Moffet Field, has lots of tracking hardware.
MAE West is a major Internet communication Hub.
Santa Clara county in general has tons of co-location servers, all juicy targets to whoever is doing this.
I just watch willie brown tell the bay area folks not to panic. Doesn't he know we're living in one of the major communication hubs of the world? Guess not.
Sorry to take so much bandwidth writing this, my mind is numb right now, so i'm just sorta letting this flow out. My wife has family in NY, so i'm really scared right now. I'm scared for them, my wife, my and her families and friends.
I'm sorry for the families of the victims. I pray the worst is over.
Maybe I should look at my 6 month post dot com layoff stint as a plus. I've learned to eat less, I got rid of my addiction free candy and soda courtesy of the dot-coms. I've been working in my backyard, getting healthier.
I'm sorry slash, go ahead and troll or flame my comment, my mind is numb and i'm too shocked to write anything usefull.
--toq
http://overtone.org/sass/plane.crash.in.wtc-news.m pg
Please mirror this.
it's a good measure of both how dependent we have become upon the internet and how woefully inadequate it still is as a large-scale information outlet for important events [things other than pictures of Movie Star Julia Roberts eating her favorite B&J ice cream].
From The Register:
Hollywood, Television, has become the dream machine. We need to take that back; each of us is a Dream Machine
I hope Bush learns from this that the worst threat on the US is not coming from 'nuclear missiles from rogue states', that anybody wanting to do evil has way more basic methods available. Cancel that silly project, the money can be used to recuperate the cities after this horror day.
People are calling for revenge. I don't know, which target would you try to hit in revenge? "Terrorism will never win" I read, but if you decide to retaliate with lots of high tech violence, killing again lots of innocent citizens (in Palestine, Afghanistan or whereever you think you should drop your bombs), I think that exactly then terrorism *has* won. Terrorists want war, you should not give them that pleasure. But I have to admit that I do not know an alternative strong answer to the crimes that were committed today.
These are just my thoughts. I am European, sitting moderately safe (still) in Amsterdam. Maybe if I were American I would have thought something else.
I am horrified by what I saw, heard and read today. I hardly dare to think about the consequences, whether the world politics are stable enough deal with this catastrophe wisely. I even feel a little silly when I write this, I am only 31 years old, I have only a very naive idea about what 'wisely' means in this case.
I wish all of you all the best. These are crazy times.
Absolutely
Also, Aircraft security, the pilots cabin should
be sealed with a code lock, the pilot should have
guns, and there should be two armed security offices on all planes.
Aircraft transponders should not be switch-off-able. Ground control
should have the option to take manual control
of planes, with a secret pilots override. There
are hundreds of things that should be improved
in aircraft security
Have you ever read Tom Clancey's novel, Rising Sun? The similarities are stunning - in that book the President (character Jack Ryan) had the terrorist leader's house bombed (with him in it) with a live video feed to the world as part of the retaliation.
Did you know that President Bush repealed a law last year that outlawed the hunting and execution of terrorist leaders? I will be watching to see what happens.
Condolences to all those whom lost loved ones in this horrible tragedy.
High-rise buildings are built to control the spread of fires for long enough to allow people to evacuate safely. There is no capability, however, for fighting a truly large fire on a high floor. In modern steel-frame buildings -- and I don't know if the WTC was built recently enough for this to apply -- the steel is coated with a fireproofing material, and the combination of the fireproofing and the sprinkler system is supposed to provide structural integrity for a period of three to five hours. That's supposed to be long enough to evacuate the building safely. After that even the fireproofing is insufficient to keep the steel from heating to a point where it effectively begins to melt, deforming to a point where the building can no longer hold up under its own weight.
In this case, we weren't even looking at a normal fire. The incident began with a massive, high-speed, intentional impact that sheared off multiple beams, exacerbated by a large explosion from fuel aboard the plane. The initial damage was severe. Furthermore, my brother speculates that the impact likely severed the water pipes that reach the upper floors, leaving water gushing from a single point or a relatively small number of points and rendering the sprinklers largely useless.
Buildings do survive aircraft impacts, incidentally: A plane flew into the Empire State Building in the Sixties, I think, and obviously it's still standing. Anyway, I don't think it's fair to characterize this as a fire causing a building collapse -- it's more like a very large bomb.
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
I was just thinking about the worthlessness of requiring photo ID at airports just a few days ago...and I stumbled on this article...it's timeliness is tremendous.
s ec crit.htm
http://cryptome.unicast.org/cryptome022401/faa-
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
From: daw@cs.berkeley.edu (David Wagner)
Newsgroups: isaac.lists.cypherpunks
Subject: CDR: Re: FAA's new air passenger surveillance system
Date: 20 Apr 1999 20:14:24 -0700
In article ,
Declan McCullagh wrote:
> Tourist or Terrorist?
> by Declan McCullagh (declan@wired.com)
>
> 3:00 a.m. 20.Apr.99.PDT
> WASHINGTON -- A US$2.8-billion monitoring system
> championed by Vice President Gore will
> use computer profiles to single out airline
> passengers for investigation and scrutiny.
Thanks for forwarding this.
I've actually done a fair amount of research into the FAA's photo ID
security requirements, and what I've learned has really depressed me.
What most people don't know is that the FAA regulations which require
airlines to ask for photo ID don't apply if you aren't checking luggage.
(Caveats: Only applies to domestic flights. And a few airlines have
stricter regulations than what's required by law. I last checked about
6 months ago; if the policy has changed since then, all bets are off.)
However, there's an education problem -- many airline employees don't
know this, and in practice you will have a hard time convincing them.
Sadly, I think the FAA is complicit in this problem -- when I called them,
they (reluctantly) confirmed over the phone that this is indeed their
policy once I volunteered that I knew about it, but flat out refused to
confirm it in written form (!), saying that this information only goes
to those with a need-to-know.
But leaving that aside, what's far worse (to my mind) is that most of
these invasive "security" procedures are of dubious effectiveness. In
all honesty, I think they would be unlikely to slow down a motivated
adversary much.
For kicks, I've done some investigation and testing, and here is some
analysis on their effectiveness [1]:
1. Hand-searching carry-on luggage for selectees:
easily bypassed.
(Anecdote: Whem I fly as a selectee, the usual procedure is that they
search my luggage at the gate in advance, then let me roam before
boarding. This does not require much thought to bypass: show up early,
stash your bag in a public locker before the search, then retrieve it
afterwards.)
(Anecdote: Once, rather than searching my bags immediately, the
checkin agent put a sticker on ticket that was supposed to alert
the gate agent not to let me on the plane without searching my bag.
I was truly impressed: I thought for once their hand-search procedure
was going to be effective. When I got to the gate, the gate agent
stared at the sticker for about 30 seconds, clearly not sure what it
meant, then finally looked at me and waved me through, without the
search. Maybe it was just a fluke, but I'm skeptical.)
2. Photo ID requirements:
laughable.
(I assume I don't need to mention that if teenagers find it easy to
obtain fake IDs, presumably would-be terrorists can also get one.)
3. Profiling:
I am very skeptical.
(Suppose I have an ID under a false name. I use it to get a credit
card under that name, then buy a suit and a round-trip ticket in
first class. How is the profiling going to pick me out of the
crowd of business travelers??)
4. Random bag searches as you pass through the metal detectors:
probably not very reliable, though surely they help a little.
(Anecdote: When the security guard at the X-ray detector asked if he
could search my bag (a random suspicion-less search), I played dumb
and asked "Do I have to?". He said, warmly, "Oh, are you late for
your flight?". When I nodded yes, he let me go without searching.
Friendly guy!)
(Anecdote: One FAA document had to advise security guards to not pick
just small bags for the "random" searches. Turns out that some
guards were avoiding the big bags because they took more effort to
search.)
5. The metal detectors & X-ray machines entering the gate:
actually a pretty good defense, but they can be defeated without too
much effort.
(Simple attack: carry a big bulky "laptop" that actually contains
a pound of nasty explosives. This is pretty hard for the good
guys to stop with current procedures, sadly...)
(Anecdote: Ever wonder how they get the beer and other supplies into
the bars and restaurant near the gate? Lucky Green tells an
eye-opening story about the time he saw them wheeling these kegs of
beer around the metal detectors as the guards waved them on. When
you realize that these are opaque containers that block X-rays, it
is clear that pretty much anything could potentially be transported
past the security perimeter in a keg, no questions asked, if you can
position yourself as the beer-supplier.)
6. Positive bag matching.
PBM is seems like it must be a pretty good defense, if you assume the
terrorist doesn't want to die from his own bomb, and if you apply it to
every passenger, although even then, it still can be defeated.
(The attack that seems hard to prevent: The terrorist finds a flight
with a stopover, boards with a bomb in his carry-on luggage, then gets
off the plane at the intermediate destination (leaving his carry-ons
up in the overhead compartment) and never re-boards.)
(Another weakness: In practice, it's only applied to fliers that "hit"
in the profile, so adversaries actually have two ways to defeat PBM:
avoid the profile, or play the stopover trick mentioned above.)
Notice how the most privacy-invasive security techniques (ID checks,
profiling, hand-searches, etc.) are also the ones that are the least likely
to be effective in practice?
It seems the ineffective techniques (photo ID checks, etc.) are there
just to reassure the flying public that the FAA "is doing something",
i.e. perception management (normally called "pulling the wool over your
eyes") rather than real security. Sadly, it's exactly their privacy-invasive
nature which makes these techniques work well for perception management,
so I don't think we'll be rid of this problem soon.
Another big problem the good guys have is transitive trust. If you pass
security in Podunk Airport and fly to JF Kennedy, you can then wander around
the "secure" area and get on another flight from JFK to SFO, without ever
going through security in JFK -- and if Podunk Air is lax about security,
you can use them to bypass the strict security in JFK. In other words, the
security of the US airport system is only as strong as its weakest link.
I don't envy the position of those responsible for aviation security; if
the goal truly is to prevent terrorist attacks (not just to project a false
sense of security, as the cynics would suggest), they have a very hard
problem on their hands.
However, I fear that the FAA has struck a terrible balance in their current
aviation security policy: it is not strict enough to offer real defense, but
just harsh enough to invade our privacy -- we give up some of our freedom
when flying, and in return, all we get is "security procedures" that don't
actually do much to protect us. All this is surely old hat for the grizzled
cypherpunk, but depressing nonetheless.
Footnote 1.
Normally I would be a little reluctant to post this kind of detailed
information on weaknesses in the aviation security infrastructure --
while I value my privacy and freedom to travel, the last thing I want to
happen is for someone to go bomb a plane after reading this post (no
matter how unlikely that may be in practice).
Nonetheless, if we as a society are going to make an informed policy
decision, we can't kid ourselves. We live in a democracy, and the public
needs to know the flat honest truth.
It's one thing to sacrifice some privacy if you gain a lot of security
in return. It's another thing entirely to needlessly sacrifice freedom
if we gain absolutely no security in return. And I think the evidence
shows that we have gained nothing in return for the extra restrictions
on our freedom to travel. The real terrorists surely know this; the flying
public deserves to know, too.
Subject says it all.
The WTC may be for western people the symbol of
wealth and prosperity; for many more people
it is the symbol of poverty, pollution, child
labour and colonialism.
I can mourn the victioms, but I cannot forget
the facts.
Paai
I have been watching my television for slightly over three hours, starting only a few minutes from the first collision. I watched everything. I have tried to imagine the terror and fear of the victims, but cannot.
Rhetoric and ideology should never overshadow the tragedies of the individual victims, but more than lives have been lost today. The United States seems also to have lost it's ability to reason. Already I hear spokesmen and anchorwomen chanting the words: "Hunt them down". The lust for revenge is staggering. It will grow worse.
Nothing can be said to assuage the terrible need for vengance. The American people will act, driven by the very same emotions as the terrorists. The cycle will continue.
The United States is not the target of terrorism because it is a democracy, or because of it's beliefs, or because the terrorists are jealous. If that were so, there are closer and easier targets.
The US is the target of terrorism because of how it involves itself in the affairs of other countries. Therefore, the first response to this tragedy should be a change in how the US conducts it's foreign policy.
The US has set itself up as the world's policeman and banker, not it's doctor or engineer. It has deliberately engendered fear, not love. It has a history of projecting it's ideology on other countries through the use of force. It is those factors which have lead to the horror I have seen today.
If the United States cannot put aside it's pride and apologise to the very people who have just attacked it, if it cannot make amends by loving those who hate it... things will just get worse.
Jeremy Lee | Orinoco
Buildings do survive aircraft impacts, incidentally: A plane flew into the Empire State Building in the Sixties,
It was the 40's right after WWII. The plane was a B-25 a much smaller plane flying a lot slower.
Plus the Empire State building has a much larger safty factor in it's design.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
I have big buildouts at Exodus and Genuity, and both sites are seeing problems, but they are isolated to specific high-traffic news sites.
This is a major news event, and as such, there is a huge overload on major news sites, including sites operated by newspapers, TV, and radio.
I have trouble loading MSNBC, a bit of difficulty with slashdot, but normal network access to my servers on Exodus, Genuity, Sprint, and other places around the country has not degraded at all.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
Ah, thanks for the correction. It makes more sense that it happened in the 40s prior to the widespread deployment of radar, etc.
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
There have been no incidents in Chicago, just the usual shutdown of government buildings and landmarks.
Also major shopping malls are closing today.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
She sure needs a rim job.
1922 British mandate of Palestine begins
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
What's happened today should atleast put the National Missile Defense programme in a new perpective. Hopefully U.S. politicians will now realize that the greatest threat agains the United States is NOT ballistic nukes, but terrorists using hijacket airplanes or, worse, briefcase nukes, to cause major damage to the countrys infrastructure.
I do agree that US airport security has become very complacent recently. I've flown many, many times in the past year, often to the east coast, commonly flying with a pocket knife and leatherman multi-tool in my carry-on baggage, only once ever was it even noticed... before boarding a flight to Pittsburg.
Civil rights must be protected, but there is no right to board an aircraft. If you don't like the tight airport security, take a bus, a train, or drive yourself.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
I've been getting emails from a friend at Globix, the giant internet exchange in southern Manhattan. Here is the latest news:
Globix is located on Centre Street south of Canal Street. Businesses south of Canal have been asked to evacuate. The dust from the WTC collapse has forced buildings to shut down their air conditioning. Only a few large computer operations can operate without normal air conditioning, but major exchanges, like the AT&T telephone building and Globix, have backup cooling systems that should hopefully operate in these conditions.
Globix engineers are taking care of major service problems and trying to prevent potential major problems so they can leave as soon as possible.
Globix is hooked into the 3 largest backbones that pass through the region, and at least one must still be operating. Email messages originating from Globix are making their way out, but messages sent to Globix are not coming in.
A telephone call to (212-334-xxxx) from NJ (856-672-xxxx) got through, but no calls to the 718 area code are working. I just received a call from a 212 phone as well.
My friend at Globix was walking to a class at Sun Microsystems at the World Trade Center when the first plane hit. His view of the collision was obscured, and he was not injured. He commented:
> I ran down to the woolworth building and stood
> looking in shock at the North tower, the smoke
> billowing out of it and the thousands of papers
> fluttering down against the blue sky. Suddenly
> I saw something hurtling down the side of the
> building. It was a man, limbs, tie and suitcoat
> flailing. several more followed. I turned and
> slowly walked back towars the sunny, newly
> renovated park in front of city hall.
>
> I heard the second explosion hit, and people
> began screaming and running past me.
>
> As I sit here at my comfortable nest of a
> workspace, my skin crawls, and I feel sick to
> my stomach. I have read about events this bad
> or worse a hundred times in the novels my
> father derisively terms storybooks, but the
> reality is completely incomparable. Perhaps he
> had a point.
>
Another friend of mine was in the 70th floor of the second building to get hit, and he made it out alive. I don't yet have the details on that.
Transportation update (from a Brooklyn friend):
Subway lines are running off and on, and bridges and tunnels are closed to cars. The W line was still bringing people into Manhattan at 9:30, but that has ceased. The N/R is now running above 14th Street. Pedestrian traffic is allowed on the Brooklyn Bridge and the Manhattan Bridge. People in suits have been streaming over these bridges into Brooklyn all morning.
Historical Note:
Today, September 11, is the 28th anniversary of the CIA-led coup that overthrew the democratically elected government headed by Allende in Chile. Why is this relevant? I feel an immense amount of anger towards the people who caused this, and I think the people who caused this are the murderers sitting in Washington D.C. who direct U.S. foreign policy. They recklessly inspire anti-U.S. sentiment in every other country in this world. We ruthlessly bombed civilian targets in Yugoslavia (including water purification sites); we starve the children of Iraq; we blockade Cuba for no good reason; we topple democratically elected socialist governments in order to install pro-U.S. dictatorships. My anger does not direct itself solely towards the government officials who have perpetrated these crimes. I am furious at the millions of Americans who voted for George W. Bush. They are responsible for putting into power a person who is walking all over international agreements about global warming and arms control. And anybody who sits by and pays taxes and watches our imperialistic military and State Department do its dirty work has to take some responsibility for these murders. WAKE UP AMERICA: THIS IS YOUR FAULT. No missile defense shield will protect us from the hate that is justifiably spawned worldwide by our pro-corporate foreign policy.
Experience of an anarchist:
When the mail carrier knocked on my door this morning, I was worried that I was about to be taken in by the FBI. If you know what I've been through, you would not think this was a paranoid reaction. There will be a witchhunt following these events, and the U.S. government will probably use it as an excuse to harass activists. Right now the joint anti-terrorism task forces around the country spend most of their money tracking and harassing the anti-corporate activists who have been targeting world financial summits. A good chunk is also spent on the Earth Liberation Front and the Animal Liberation Front, neither of which actually have any members; they are just slogans that autonomous cells apply to their acts of vandalism. Today's events show yet again that money spent on national security does not in fact serve national security, but rather serves the insidious ends of the people controlling this country. Expect there to be calls for more money to fund politically motivated witchhunts against the Left. Expect calls for outlawing consumer use of encryption.
Finally:
Eben Moglen, Columbia University Law Professor and general counsel of the FSF once said about the inevitable rise of encrypted communications:
I don't doubt that there will be downsides. You should accept the truth that harms will be caused, as harms are caused by free speech all the time. But don't let yourself be panicked about this. The world of the twenty-first century will be more free, and will continue to be, as the spooks often say, "a tough neighborhood." Indeed, some bombs will go off; there will be, in Stewart Baker's signature phrase, "some mangled, burnt bodies." You will notice that there are already. But fewer of them will be in Iraqi prisons; none of them will ever again be in a gulag or Lager maintained by a KGB or SS state with a tap on every telephone. And of that you should be very proud, because it is we who will have made it possible.
Calm down folks. This story is hurried and still very undetermined in fine details. There are obviously some hard facts (towers, pentagon), but we need to worry less about other rumors and respond to the needs at the moment. If prayer or good wishes is all you can do, then do that. If you can give blood, then stop reading this and go do so, the victims can't wait till tomorrow. And even if you're only a small cross-section, if you're just calling a buddy in NY or DC but who you know is safe, get off the phone and let the emergency services and panicked loved ones get through. You can do something by conserving telecommunications assets right now, there's enough chaos without blitzing phones and melting local routers. Go give blood.
I hear that they are asking offices and businesses to close in downtown Montreal.
"I'm not a procrastinator, I'm temporally challenged"
Mine too. I may change it to October 11th.
"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." --Elbert Hubbard (1856-1915)
In the middle of the Pentagon courtyard, there is (or at least was) a hot dog stand called "Ground Zero." Does anybody know if that stand is intact, or is it buried in rubble, or something in between? I haven't been able to find any pictures of the Pentagon to indicate the state of the courtyard, so I can't tell.
Of course, my concern and condolances go out to all affected by this, but I can't help but wonder what happened at Ground Zero.
Bugrit! Millenium hand and shrimp!
I was talking to my friend (a CFI, certified flight instructor) and he said that the commercial planes have autopilots that can be programmed for nearly any course desired. Getting 3 or more suicidal pilots is a lot harder than 3 or more suicidal people carrying instructions for how to program an autopilot.
Also, air traffic control should have been aware when the planes started heading for class B airspace, and scrambled interceptors. They've done it before. Of course, this wouldn't be the first time that plans weren't followed in a crisis.
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
The one thing a person cannot afford to have is a sense of perspective.
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Citizens of countries who condone this type of action are not innocents, they are as guilty as the rest for not rising up.
You're the worst sort of idiot in this world. Stupid AND violent. Look at what you said and then imagine it being said by someone in the Middle East about America. WE are responsible for the actions of our government. WE are the targets of those whom we have harmed, whether we believe it justified or not. They share your belief that all the people of the country are responsible for the acts of their government and therefore all Americans are legitimate targets.
Some would like to see our country razed, just as you would like to see their countries razed. It's your kind of thinking that is responsible for such tragedies as today's events. America has perpetrated some pretty serious crimes in this world. People have good reason to hate us in some cases. We're not as innocent as we like to think or as our government would tell us we are. In any case though, massive military retaliation would be idiotic. It will only lead to more destruction on both sides.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
CNN, ABCnews, etc were all incapacitated. Even if I were foolish enough to use *them* as my primary news source, I don't visit their sites first. Today, I would have been wasting my time to even try to visit their sites.
All you get on CNN, Fox and even NPR now is redundant coverage, talking heads and speculation--which is why I don't use them for "news" on a day-to-day basis. Or am I supposed to assume that I need to check the "valid" news sources for terrorist attacks when I wake up every morning?
I won't respond to your ad hominem attacks, but I stand by my original post: Slashdot has done a great service to its readers by posting this breaking news and remaining accessible through the deluge of information and traffic, as well as for providing their usual discussion services which far exceed the glib "info-poll" applets you see on the established news sources. As far as I'm concerned they've provided the best coverage of this event, from a functional standpoint, available on the web. Its operators should be proud. Call it offtopic, but it's true and we should acknowledge it.
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
Air pressure. A good chunk of the weight of the building is supported by internal air pressure. The buildings have to be nearly airtight anyway because of the difference between the atmospheric pressure between the ground and the top anyway, so they use air pressure to help support the weight.
Obviously there's a safety factor built in, so a couple of bronken windows wouldn't drop the towers to the ground. But with holes that big, and structural damage from the crashes themselves, they were going to collapse sooner or later.
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
Traditionally, Americans have been by far the most vicious and ruthless when it comes to defending their own. I know MY history. It might be worthwhile to note that prominent leaders such as Kissinger, to say nothing of those who's futures hang in the balance, favor painting with a borad brush. It's not just the assholes who hijacked the planes, it's not the assholes who told them to, it's not the assholes who trained them, it's not the assholes who provided the financing, it's not just the assholes who provided shelter, it's not just the assholes who turned a blind eye, it's all of them. When it comes to killing, no one knows how to do it better than Americans, this they will learn.
When we find the whos, and we will, anything this big leaves a trail, then the time of retribution will be at hand. Believe me, it would be an ignorant if not suicidal move to stand between US and revenge. Right or wrong as it may be, "If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem." Notice how quick the Taliban responded, they know what they allowed to happened. They have a dim idea of what the consequences may be. I can only assume that the comparisons to Pearl Harbor, and the eventual fate of Japan translate into their native tongue. It would behoove those who consider themselves enemies of the West to reflect on what happened to the last nation to attack American soil. I, for one, will lose no sleep over any lives lost should we decide to show those who traffic in terror, what it is to fear. They can hijack planes, we can wipe their cities from the face of the earth.
But hey, we're a representative oligarchy, and in this instance, I'm more than happy to let the rich representatives, who've lost a lot, make a strong point by spilling blood in my name.
I remember when I was about 10 being on the observation deck of one of the WTC, and looking down at all the people. I remember how impossibly huge those buildings seem. Now, those are gone. Maybe a little kid not so different from me was experiencing that still familiar sense of awe. It seems unlikely that anyone in such a situation would have been able to escape (thankfully many others have, seemingly most). What was their sin? If they can be killed in the name of a "benevolent" diety, then my "corrupt" government has my blessing to proceed with any retribution that can be described as "indescribable."
--Jimmy has fancy plans; and pants to match.
Aircraft security, the pilots cabin should
be sealed with a code lock,
But a lock is only a good as the door it is attached to
the pilot should have
guns, and there should be two armed security offices on all planes.
Bullets and planes are a very dangerous combination. There is a lot of energy involved in the presurisation on an aircraft cabin.
Ground control
should have the option to take manual control
of planes, with a secret pilots override.
Actually this could well make things more risky. If this kind of override is to be usable it simply can't be kept that secret...
I think that his other book is more to the point...
From Amazon.com:
"The American political situation takes a disturbing turn as the President, Congress, and Supreme Court are obliterated when a Japanese terrorist lands a 747 on the Capitol."
I hope that this is not life imitating art...
Here in Lincoln Nebraska we are expected to get some of the burn victims. Our St. Elizibeth Hospital boasts as being one of the nation's top burn facilities. Also are city is sending some of our own medical emergency crew to NY to help out. Anyone in Lincoln who can give blood, I urge to do so. We are known here in Lincoln to keep a large surplus of blood on hand for emergencies and the time has come.
I think you need to, because you obviously don't understand the idea behind humour.
There was a report about the U.S. Embassy in Oslo on Norwegian TV now, and the embassy has not been evacuated. However, large armed police forces (Norwegian police are normally unarmed) are covering the building.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
S11 (September 11).
Nothing implied, just a thought.
This
Maximum fuel on board, for maximum damage?
--
Can't buy what I want because it's free.
Our sympathies to the relatives of the victims of the World Trade Center collapse.
Now do the right thing, Mr. Bush -- if Osama bin Laden was behind this, find him and his henchmen and blow them into the next dimension.
Your response indicates that you are a crude, profane, ignorant, self-righteous cretin. Obviously you believe that there is no motive here other than the muslim religion. And you believe that when Dubya refuses to even talk to Arafat that he's not at all condoning what the Israeli government and its military forces are doing to the Palestinians. Clearly, you believe that using profanity and insults somehow validates you and your attitude. You don't happen to be a republican or a Jew, do you?
One of the problems with American society that I've always hated is that we don't seem to give a damn until something happens to us.
:)
Look at WWII. We didn't care about anything else going on in the world until someone decided to go ahead and plow over one of our military bases (whether or not you think we knew about that is a little irrelevant).
Instance: the problems in the Middle East. The general U.S. thought is that we should just tell everyone that we don't like what's going on in other parts of the world; if they don't bother us, then it's not really that much of a problem.
Make no mistake right now; this country is at war. We don't know against whom yet, and we won't find that out for a while, but there's no doubt in my mind that this is an act of war. Now I don't think that we should go around and tell everyone else in the world how they need to act or what we think they should be doing (God, we don't need to be the world's police), but I do think we should be more involved.
I don't think that there's too many Americans who would argue with us going over to wherever these people are from, killing them, burning their land, and then salting it forever. I'm not necessarily saying that I agree with this, but I do think that retalitation is the right thing to do.
Take Desert Storm, for instance. There were two ways that we could have handled that situation. We could have said, "Oh, that's OK, doesn't bother us, go ahead and take over Kuwait," or we could have said "You know what? Don't bully people around - you keep this up, and we'll come kick your ass."
What happened was that we did some kind of half-assed attack where we moved in, showed them that we didn't like what they were doing, and then let them go about their business and continue planning the downfall of their neighboring nations and of America. We should have either left them alone, or completely destroyed their economy and military systems.
I still think that the US has the unparalleled ability to make war and to do it successfully and decisively.
I, for the most part, am simply of the opinion that we should not roll over and say, "well, you got us, and we give up, just don't do it again."
I'm not going to say anything else until we figure out who did this, because my presuppositions are going to get the better of em and I'm going to say something else that is wayyyy too stupid.
I'm here in Verona PA, which is about 60 miles from Johnstown PA, where UA says the crash was near. I'm just here on business, but the locals tell me that the crash was actually in a field near Shanksville PA, 20 miles outside of Johnstown. :-(
Karma seems so worthless today, and information so valuable
Religion is the opium of the people. Evolution is the opium of scientists.
Slashdot was most certainly NOT first. They just jumped on the bandwagon, and were probably one of the few sites built to handle bandwidth, but not linked to anyone's browser's preinstalled homepage, where everyone clicked to visit cnn.
Taco's getting a little megalomaniac about it, thinking he's got the scoop, or is the lone reporter braving the dangers in a country of war. None of this is true. I don't think it's possible for TV stations to get slashdotted, case in point.
2,280 people died at Pearl Harbor. That's about 10,000 families ruined.
I suspect that today's death toll will be, oh, at least ten times that. I prefer to think of it in terms of how many families will be destroyed or nearly so by the events of the day. About 100,000, at least. Each woman who died was someone's daughter, and someone's mother, and someone's wife, and someone's sister, and someone's friend. Equivalently so for each man who died. Lots of misery for all to share - the price of supporting the Israeli persecution of the Palestinians. It would have been better if we had not allowed the use of our weapons by the Israeli military.
Training commercial pilots? What is your source for this information?
Osama said he would cause devestation in America in response to America's support of Israel. I take it this support will greatly increase for the time being.
This is a declaration of war. We are at war. As of 4:07 on Tuesday, we don't know who we are at war with. I would venture a guess that an invasion of Afganistan is being considerred, and that Israel will have a temporary Carte Blanche on their actions against the Palestinians.
But we have lost more people to violence (if we lost half the 50,000 people in the WTC) than we have ever lost in a day of American history before (previous civil war record of 22,000). And more than we lost in many other wars as well.
I wonder what affect this will have on the economy and the NYSE...
-Ben
but definitely not flamebait...did you moderators READ the article(s) the previous poster is talking about? Hello, donations, fundamentalist mideastern terrorist groups? Pull yer heads out, it sounded relevent to me.
For supporting role in causing the WTC to collapse: *gravity*. Ever play Jenga?
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
is going on...I won't bother wasting time trying to explain it to you, Joe-uneducated-click-clickchangethechannelformores oundbytes Sixpack dumbass..it's not about religion, really, it'a about genocide, racism, occupation, and human rights...oh yeah...Islam believes in the SAME GOD fuckwad
You know, we have a fine collection of very able programmers and the like here, how 'bout a little demonstration, aimed at any and all web sites promoting terrorism in all its forms?
Nothing organized, nothing planned, just give a little back to the society that has nurtured (most of) us.
Geeks of the Internet, Unite!
I have looked at many comments coming from Americans. I am thoroughly saddened and berieved by the events that have taken place. However, it is not prudent or logical to run around with our heads lopped off like chickens for the slaughter.
Justice must and will prevail. I do not agree with a war like attitude. I dispise the news broadcasters for mentioning war and Pearl Harbor. This is just not the same as Pearl Harbor. Why rehash history? This is something of a reality shaker. It is time to wake up and realize that we and the world are extremely vulnerable.
Now more than ever do we need to bond together and work to erradicate hatred, violence and the like.
I have personally in my 24 years of exsistence have not agreed with our stance on the battle between Israel and Palestine. However, I feel Palestine and Israel are fighting a futile struggle. Neither are accomplishing anything but tearing the land, people, and world apart. So many people are dying and for what???? Land??? Religion???
Yes, I understand the nature of a cause. I will not condone their bloodshed nor ours. However, if countries are going to affect other countries... there needs to be organizations to resolve these matters... Someone must Police.. Unfortunately, since we have such a foothold... We are one of the Policers and with that comes tremendous burdens...
Those who do not believe in freedom or civility will react harshly. I won't say we have always made the best decisions. No one is ever perfect. Running a country and making decisions that can affect the world is a stressful task.
The gluttony and greed of the world never cease to amaze me even as sometimes it takes the shroud of a religious habit.
Truth like surgery, may hurt, but it cures. - Han Suyin, Chinese Physician and Writer
Yes, I believe it's called ``scorched earth.'' But success with other than overwhemling firepower is harder to come by.
Think about the fact that these assholes attacked the WTC before the Pentagon. Think about it long and hard. Why?
Think about the stupid anti-terrorism rules that the USA already has. Think about how much those rules intrude into the lives of Americans, and how little they've done to stop this wretched act of terrorism.
Think about the BATF filling someone's house with flammable gas and blowing it up, murdering hundreds of poeple inside. Think about the observation that when the Oklahoma building was blown up from the inside with multiple charges, the BATF offices just happened to be empty, but a day-care centre was left full of children.
Use your collective brains! You speak of the people behind this, but what if the people behind it were really Americans, as happened during World War II? Hitler's Reich would have been impossible without much US finanace and other intervention (e.g. suppression of alternative fuel research in USA by means of patents, promotion of same research in Germany). Pearl Harbour would have been impossible without a great deal of prior US strategy to basically force the Japanese to do something. Don't be a puppet again!
If your reaction is typical of a US citizen, well, welcome back to the Dark Ages: goodbye, personal freedom (in the name of ``greater common good''); goodbye safety, particularly for any minority; hello, police state; hello fear; hello uncertainty. And this: hello, unfettered control of the world's single most powerful military force.
Time to look at history, carefully, before you repeat it.
T h i n k !
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I've thought of that one, as have *many* other people. I think the answer is no, but not because I have a clue. It's just a gut feeling.
What you said indicates that you don't understand the costs and loss of rights. Usually rights are not just taken away in one fell swoop, but rights are eroded over time. Now, to have a license, you must provide your social security number to the state, its to protect the children from deadbeat dads. To cash a check, most banks require finger printing. When you drive your car, you are tracked. When you go to the superbowl, your face is checked against a database.
Fight Spammers!
Religion is at the root of a great deal of what is wrong with the world today. The idea that there are invisible things that want us to behave in certain ways - is there anyone who doubts that these attacks were made by islamic fundies?
It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
This IS the time to think clearly and this horrible incedent, like every horrible incedent in the 20th Century , will be used to strip more freedom away from the sovereign citizens of the US "for their own good".
NBC just said 800 dead and wounded.
Why hit where they did on the pentegon? I asked myself this all day. The White House or Capital building make better political targets. So why there?
My theory, and it is only that but seems to make sense to me.
After the news of the WTC the emergency planning takes effect and the top brass head for the heliport to be taken away to safety.
If they wanted to take out the top people the helipad was a very logical target, especially considering the delay between the Pentegon and WTC.
The military term for taking out the leadership of the enemy is decapitation.
Either that or some times are just not times for levity.
Nice things are nicer than nasty ones.
I see two extremes posted here and both are 50/50 right/wrong.
It is common legal precedent that harboring a criminal or not reporting criminal activity is in and of itself a crime. A lesser crime than the typical criminal activity though. This aiding and abeiting.
But a witness that does not come forward is also an entirely different matter than one who covers up after having been discovered. This is obstruction.
Just like Christianity there are splinter factions in Islam. The true Islamic follows priciples almost identical to true Christianity.
Also like Christianity has their groups that distort the "religion" to their own ends, such as the white militant groups, Nazism, KKK; Islam also has their fringe groups that use and twist Islam into something it is not.
Arafat and Osama fall squarely into this latter category for Islam just as David Duke and Al Sharpton does for Christianity (it's far from a "white" thing)
Everyone should withhold judgement until the true culprits are found. Don't forget that the Middle East was originally blamed for Oklahoma City and many reporters and "experts" ate crow. But the damage had been done and many Americans of MidEast origin endured unforgivable scrutiny.
If this is retaliation for something that occured in the last couple of weeks (very unlikely since this would have take several months of planning, training the terrorist pilots, etc) then it would more likely be the UN race summit that went down in shambles last week after a faction of psudo Muslim states tried to declare Zionism as racist, and demanding reparations.
The US and most US allies walked and the summit fell apart.
I watching the news coverage of the attack on wpix between 3:10am and 3:25am eastern time.I then noticed the scrolling ticker at the bottom of the screen read "War has been decleared and as a country at war we should exercise diferent options than a country at peace." I am not sure if those were the exact words and those words don't sound strange in times like anyway but it got my attention. Following that the ticker began to read "Arizona Republic of Pheniox." Then the ticker flashed and when it came back I could see more had been Written but I couldn't read it because it only came back briefly. After that I was trying to figure out what the heck the Arizona Republic of Pheniox was when the next ticker started and I noticed it was not in the same font as before. Mabey it was just a quote and someone just cut it off early but I tried to look up the Arizona Rebpublic of Pheniox all over the internet and found nothing. If anyone knows anything about this could you please reply to this post
I keep hearing about the difficulty of this attack. In actuality, if you fly at all, you would know, this attack wouldn't be that hard to execute.
1.Get people into the US (this would not be to hard, as we have people from other countries coming in all the time. Just need people without suspicious pasts. Of course they have to be soo brainwashed that they would kill themselves for the cause.)
2.Cordinate through Gnutella (Gnutella would make a good communications medium)
3.Create composite knives out of porcelain, or grab a pen then take over an airplane (flash a sharp weapon rush the cockpit, keep killing until the doors are opened. Kill the pilots (planes aren't that hard to fly once they are flying) change course, your on your way)
4.Kill, kill, and kill...
If you look at it, these assholes were willing to die. They exploited weaknesses in some of our systems, but these exploits were far from hard. They deserve no credit for what they have done. It was too simple, and that is what scares me. It equates to a lowly DOS attack. Bastards...
I send my love to those involved-- stay strong. Our country has failed us, but know it is all too apparent now-- things will change.
-Those who have a not thorough insight into both the signification and purpose of words, will be under chances.
Sorry, but this mirror is now down...
Nothing to see here