Or do you instaed prefer to call everything that is fact, but goes against your world view "FUD"? I'd say Affero GPLv3 would be enough to keep me from using this product. Exchange is used in hardcore production environments... it is no place to play around with crazy, untested, product licenses.
"Hey look boss, this is an exchange server replacement*. The best part is if we modify the publicly facing webmail portions even the slighest, we'll have to offer every single bit of code that touched our modifications on our webpage too! Isn't that awesome?"
Ooops... looks like I went against your worldview again. FUD?
What about insiders who are leaking information about the next enron?
What about global warming?
What about academic sites that publish research linking cell phones to cancer? What if a paper is published that actually does connect them? How do you prevent it's "truthliness" from getting freeped by people with vested interests in the status quo?
What about a pharmaceutical website that claims their medication is safe despite mounting evidence it shuts down the liver?
What about a website that has recipes for making heavy grade explosives? How do you rate the truth in something that only a terrorist or a government can test?
What is the truthliness of Homestarrunner?
What about the story published in the National Enquirer about John Edwards affairs when nobody believed them?
This is another version of The Semantic Web and is just as impossible to pull of as the original. Both fail to take into account the tenancy to lie and exaggerate things to promote your world views. They operate under "as long as everybody plays by the rules this idea is perfect!"... which is a very stupid idea unless you've got a legal framework to enforce the rules.
Please dont go against the groupthink on diggdot. Until then, I have no choice but to bury your comment and then reply to it flaming you.
It is a well known fact that George Bush used dozens of Cops with Tasers to bring down Richard Stallman for Smoking Legal Pot for his Melanoma. We should ban Tasers, Bush, Cops and vote Paul/Stallman for 2008 (Paul is still running, the MSM just lies about it).
Also, the moon landing is a hoax, 9/11 really happened on 9/12 but the Pepsi bottling company wanted it moved a day to sell more soda so the fat cats in Washington fucked with the calandar to make it so (this is true, there have been several other diggdot stories proving it...), and Diebold stole every election since Hoover.
Now digg my comment *up* please--if not for stating the obvious, but for its inner truth.
We need a way to tie the methods we use to identify ourselves in the real world to our online world. In the real world, we have drivers licenses, bank cards, passports, birth certificates, business licensing... you name it. No need to re-invent the wheel with crazy schemes that try to avoid using our real life "proof of existence".
Somehow, a protocol stack needs to be created to let us take these real world things and get our exciting protocols to "verify" them. For example, some sites will text message your phone as a way to verify yourself. Imagine if you could type in your drivers license number, scan your fingerprint and the protocol would be smart enough to contact the issuer of the drivers license and verify you are the cardholder? Imagine if you could wave your passport in front of your computer and it would use that information to verify you? Imagine if you could warp the whole SSL trust system so your domain name would be verified against your local government instead of Verisign... like when you get your business license, the state could act as your certificate authority.
Like you say, there is a lot of potential complexity here. But I agree with you, we need stronger and "simpler" (for the end user) ways to map real live people/businesses to their online versions.
I'll toss one more thought out... stuff like this should have been addressed by IPv6. Instead of trying to be a direct mapping to IPv4, "they" should have made something that addresses modern day problems like this in the lowest regions of our protocol stack.
Every bandwagoner, technical lightweight is now stomping their feet that Firefox needs to get on this yesterday
Of course they want it yesterday... that is why they aren't as smart as you and I. They think you can go back in time.
Smart people like those reading this comment want it *today* or perhaps tomorrow morning. The honor roll students understand that today or even tomorrow might not be possible and instead are willing to wait a few days. The Mensa crowd and those working on Duke Nukem Forever or Perl6 are willing to wait until the code is the most architecturally perfect code ever written.
My point, for those reading still in the "I want it yesterday" crowd, is that you are asking for the impossible. Please be productive and demand the Firefox developers complete all code related to using a process per tab by the end of the day. Understand that until such time as those in the Duke Nukem Forever/Perl6/Mensa crowd invent the time machine, demands for "I want it yesterday" are simply unrealistic.
This is pure alarmist BS put out by con artists like Al Gore and the enviromaniacs.
The real tragedy is that our political discourse has devolved to attacks on people rather then facts, issues, and solutions. Calling Al Gore a con artist or somebody an enviromaniac helps nobody but those in control. It shuts down all further discourse.
How about instead saying "This theory is bumpkis, and here is why."
The failure of the environmental movement is that is continues to tie economic and "social justice" issues with the *fact* that our planet is warming and *the fact* that the ice caps are melting and the sea is going to rise.
Those are *facts provent by science*. Quite frankly, I dont care who is at fault for the globe heating up and the sea rising. I *do* care if my city is going to be under 20 feed of water a hundred years from now.
*It DOES NOT MATTER WHO IS AT FAULT FOR GLOBAL WARMING* what matters is *GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL*. So thank you, activist environmentalists for raising awareness, but dammit... at this point it doesn't matter if volcanoes or SUVs are what is raising the global temperature. The fact is that it is happening and the question is, should we do something to save our cities. Global warming is a threat to national security, and *that* is something that should be talked about, not blaming SUV's or coal factories.
Oh, and one more question since one of you know the answer. When I was trying to get my Sage Media Extender (SageTV = MythTV only better, Media Extender = a standalone client for your TV), it could do 802.11g but their manual and wikipedia clamied that once my 802.11b laptop got on the same access point, the access point would degrade everything to 802.11b. Is this true?... I gave up trying and just ran Cat5e to the box though. 802.11 anything just doesn't like it when you skip around MPEG streams. You'd get all kinds of compression artifacts for a second or two after skipping because the box couldn't fill its buffer fast enough.
This might sound like a dumb question... but these improvements to the protocol (er encoding) were basically the result of improvements to the speed of the hardware? In other words, then 802.11b came out, they could have use the same kind of encoding as 802.11g but it would have cost too much? Or did some smart dudes sit around and dream up a more efficient way to use the same spectrum using basically the same hardware as before?
Dont forget their protocols are optimized for this kind of thing whereas 802.11 is not.
Further dont forget that cell phone calls are like a really long running, slow speed transmission whereas web traffic is high bandwidth transmissions in short bursts.
On top of that, dont forget TCP/IP *hates* mesh networks and *hates* you hopping around on one. All the wireless protocols either have to deal with you moving from access point to access point or they just ignore the problem and not let you roam.
Don't expect that WLAN can work magically without a similar effort.
People pull it off, but it ain't with 802.11 for starters. It is with much more expensive proprietary gear that deals (er, hacks around) the shortcommings of TCP/IP. Even then your link will never be as reliable or as fast as a wired one.
Ever tried to write a meta package in whatever build system you use (FreeBSD Ports/gentoo whatever/ RPM)? Especially when the ports tree doesn't have all the CPAN modules?
Talk about a mess! That said, you only really have to do it once and then maintain your meta package.
Why are single-byte chars even possible in this day and age in the context of a string?
Because the old grampa C coders really, really like hand-optimized pointer arithmetic*. That and 8 bits is enough for any language blessed by the queen.
*course, if you use wchar you could do the same pointer arithmetic as before.
If you dont mind warping language to deliberately confuse people. For political propaganda, nothing beats perverting words like freedom to make your agenda more lovable.
See also: the republican party, bush, any dictator worth his salt.
Only Perl can read perl. You can forget about a fancy IDE with intellisense when you use perl.
PHP support means generating a wordlist that would wrap from coast to coast.
Ruby? Dunno.. but like Perl and PHP since it is dynamically typed it is harder to write an IDE for it. Haven't seen what Microsoft has done for it yet.
Javascript? Really depends on how well you can manage keeping your Javascript code in sync with your server code.
Of course they aren't. Ruby is for fashion programmers with iMacs, iTunes and iPhones. Ruby is for programmers who moonlight as bar tenders. Ruby is for companies with numbers in their name. Ruby is for minimalists who eschew corporate wisdom. Ruby is for those who use words like eschew.
Ruby is hip. It is edgy. If you went into a bar and said "I use Ruby", you would get first game on the pool table. If you use Ruby, people call you by your initials, not your name.
You dont use Ruby to just get work done. No sir. You use Ruby to make a statement about who you are.
CF, DT, DHH and M himself are all cool beyond belief. They are the superstar hipsters of our modern programming world. C programmers, Java programmers and.NET programmers could never be as cool as DHH--not even on the best day of their lives.
Go home you Microsoft Player. Go home you inbred C programmers and Billy-Joe-PHP'ers. You are the rednecks of the computing world. You are the fly-over programming languages that keep us busy wondering who uses your language as we our active records fly over your heads.
The spammer (or actually, botnet owner who wrote a spam program) has already figured that out by putting a shim inbetween you and your network card. They just sniff your traffic for anything that looks interesting. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised at all that the botnet software will "turn on" when you use hit up gmail.com and can screen scrape the page while you check your email. I would even bet that it can update its screen scraping rules from some kind of distributed network.
Somebody in this thread said spammers are dumb. That might have been the case five years ago but it is not the case now. The "spam industry" has really evolved to the "botnet industry". These botnet people are smart, smart people. Almost as smart as the P2P people in terms of getting around "damage". Shame they couldn't apply their skill and talent to doing something positive for our society though.
16GB is woefully inadequate for anything but a netbook or a phone
Even then 16gb is inadequate.
The world is moving to digitized video (netflix, tivo, etc). You are looking at a gig an hour for standard diff and probably 3-5 gigs an hour for hi-def. Within a year or so, I promise your phone will be able to play 1080i hi-def content at native resolution.
And the "OMG Bloatware we should all be using hand-rolled for-loops in C" people can step back into their timewarp from 1970. We have fast machines now and pulling off human friendly UI effects like that on the iPhone ain't cheap. And dont even start with "OMG eye candy" because quite frankly, the smooth scrolling and "human" touches make the user experience so much better then before. Turn off those things and the iPhone would feel bland and dull.
Arg... I hate technophobes who wind up working in technology.
Trust me from learned experience, do *not* try to build your own servers. Fry's is *not* open at 2am and trust me, servers have a strong bias for hardware failure (they never do it during the day when you are around for some reason).
And honestly, while I enjoy building my own desktop computers and have done so for the computer I use for business, I'll never do it again for the same reason. You simply cannot afford to fuck around with your computer when it breaks down. It is worth every penny to get a good service plan and let Dell drive to your home/business and replace a busted video card. A million times more so for your servers...
In short, white boxing is great for a home computer, but if money is on the line when it goes down, you are a fool (like I was) to not purchase a "real" computer with a good support plan.
bingo. This is the right answer. And if these servers are "local" (mail/file), make sure to factor in the cost of a fast ass link to your colo facility. I'm no expert, but I do know you can lease things like fiber and copper and have it pulled into your cage at the facility.
Then they need to look at colocation. Either you sink the money into building your own data center (read: ac, power, etc) or you just outsource it to people who do it for a living.
And for that fucking matter how much time (read, cost) does it take to do things like:
Like others have said, virtualize, slow your CPU clocks, take unused disks offline, replace your power supplies
When I first read this, I read it as $6000 and thought "oh, that is kinda cheap". Once I realized it was $600, well... heh... whoever this person is needs to either get a new job or they are like 18 and are still used to white-boxing their computers and doing everything on the cheap.
Slashdot Mirror
Or do you instaed prefer to call everything that is fact, but goes against your world view "FUD"? I'd say Affero GPLv3 would be enough to keep me from using this product. Exchange is used in hardcore production environments... it is no place to play around with crazy, untested, product licenses.
"Hey look boss, this is an exchange server replacement*. The best part is if we modify the publicly facing webmail portions even the slighest, we'll have to offer every single bit of code that touched our modifications on our webpage too! Isn't that awesome?"
Ooops... looks like I went against your worldview again. FUD?
*except for $list$ of major differences
Has *anybody* paid money for expertsexchange?
I'm always in amazement that they still manage to be indexed by Google.
What about sites that slam MySQL?
What about Vi vs Emacs?
Hell... lets be serious:
What about insiders who are leaking information about the next enron?
What about global warming?
What about academic sites that publish research linking cell phones to cancer? What if a paper is published that actually does connect them? How do you prevent it's "truthliness" from getting freeped by people with vested interests in the status quo?
What about a pharmaceutical website that claims their medication is safe despite mounting evidence it shuts down the liver?
What about a website that has recipes for making heavy grade explosives? How do you rate the truth in something that only a terrorist or a government can test?
What is the truthliness of Homestarrunner?
What about the story published in the National Enquirer about John Edwards affairs when nobody believed them?
This is another version of The Semantic Web and is just as impossible to pull of as the original. Both fail to take into account the tenancy to lie and exaggerate things to promote your world views. They operate under "as long as everybody plays by the rules this idea is perfect!"... which is a very stupid idea unless you've got a legal framework to enforce the rules.
Please dont go against the groupthink on diggdot. Until then, I have no choice but to bury your comment and then reply to it flaming you.
It is a well known fact that George Bush used dozens of Cops with Tasers to bring down Richard Stallman for Smoking Legal Pot for his Melanoma. We should ban Tasers, Bush, Cops and vote Paul/Stallman for 2008 (Paul is still running, the MSM just lies about it).
Also, the moon landing is a hoax, 9/11 really happened on 9/12 but the Pepsi bottling company wanted it moved a day to sell more soda so the fat cats in Washington fucked with the calandar to make it so (this is true, there have been several other diggdot stories proving it...), and Diebold stole every election since Hoover.
Now digg my comment *up* please--if not for stating the obvious, but for its inner truth.
Good thing the Linux marketing arm showed up and posted a correction, eh?
We need a way to tie the methods we use to identify ourselves in the real world to our online world. In the real world, we have drivers licenses, bank cards, passports, birth certificates, business licensing ... you name it. No need to re-invent the wheel with crazy schemes that try to avoid using our real life "proof of existence".
Somehow, a protocol stack needs to be created to let us take these real world things and get our exciting protocols to "verify" them. For example, some sites will text message your phone as a way to verify yourself. Imagine if you could type in your drivers license number, scan your fingerprint and the protocol would be smart enough to contact the issuer of the drivers license and verify you are the cardholder? Imagine if you could wave your passport in front of your computer and it would use that information to verify you? Imagine if you could warp the whole SSL trust system so your domain name would be verified against your local government instead of Verisign... like when you get your business license, the state could act as your certificate authority.
Like you say, there is a lot of potential complexity here. But I agree with you, we need stronger and "simpler" (for the end user) ways to map real live people/businesses to their online versions.
I'll toss one more thought out... stuff like this should have been addressed by IPv6. Instead of trying to be a direct mapping to IPv4, "they" should have made something that addresses modern day problems like this in the lowest regions of our protocol stack.
Every bandwagoner, technical lightweight is now stomping their feet that Firefox needs to get on this yesterday
Of course they want it yesterday... that is why they aren't as smart as you and I. They think you can go back in time.
Smart people like those reading this comment want it *today* or perhaps tomorrow morning. The honor roll students understand that today or even tomorrow might not be possible and instead are willing to wait a few days. The Mensa crowd and those working on Duke Nukem Forever or Perl6 are willing to wait until the code is the most architecturally perfect code ever written.
My point, for those reading still in the "I want it yesterday" crowd, is that you are asking for the impossible. Please be productive and demand the Firefox developers complete all code related to using a process per tab by the end of the day. Understand that until such time as those in the Duke Nukem Forever/Perl6/Mensa crowd invent the time machine, demands for "I want it yesterday" are simply unrealistic.
This is pure alarmist BS put out by con artists like Al Gore and the enviromaniacs.
The real tragedy is that our political discourse has devolved to attacks on people rather then facts, issues, and solutions. Calling Al Gore a con artist or somebody an enviromaniac helps nobody but those in control. It shuts down all further discourse.
How about instead saying "This theory is bumpkis, and here is why."
The failure of the environmental movement is that is continues to tie economic and "social justice" issues with the *fact* that our planet is warming and *the fact* that the ice caps are melting and the sea is going to rise.
Those are *facts provent by science*. Quite frankly, I dont care who is at fault for the globe heating up and the sea rising. I *do* care if my city is going to be under 20 feed of water a hundred years from now.
*It DOES NOT MATTER WHO IS AT FAULT FOR GLOBAL WARMING* what matters is *GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL*. So thank you, activist environmentalists for raising awareness, but dammit... at this point it doesn't matter if volcanoes or SUVs are what is raising the global temperature. The fact is that it is happening and the question is, should we do something to save our cities. Global warming is a threat to national security, and *that* is something that should be talked about, not blaming SUV's or coal factories.
Oh, and one more question since one of you know the answer. When I was trying to get my Sage Media Extender (SageTV = MythTV only better, Media Extender = a standalone client for your TV), it could do 802.11g but their manual and wikipedia clamied that once my 802.11b laptop got on the same access point, the access point would degrade everything to 802.11b. Is this true? ... I gave up trying and just ran Cat5e to the box though. 802.11 anything just doesn't like it when you skip around MPEG streams. You'd get all kinds of compression artifacts for a second or two after skipping because the box couldn't fill its buffer fast enough.
This might sound like a dumb question... but these improvements to the protocol (er encoding) were basically the result of improvements to the speed of the hardware? In other words, then 802.11b came out, they could have use the same kind of encoding as 802.11g but it would have cost too much? Or did some smart dudes sit around and dream up a more efficient way to use the same spectrum using basically the same hardware as before?
Dont forget their protocols are optimized for this kind of thing whereas 802.11 is not.
Further dont forget that cell phone calls are like a really long running, slow speed transmission whereas web traffic is high bandwidth transmissions in short bursts.
On top of that, dont forget TCP/IP *hates* mesh networks and *hates* you hopping around on one. All the wireless protocols either have to deal with you moving from access point to access point or they just ignore the problem and not let you roam.
Don't expect that WLAN can work magically without a similar effort.
People pull it off, but it ain't with 802.11 for starters. It is with much more expensive proprietary gear that deals (er, hacks around) the shortcommings of TCP/IP. Even then your link will never be as reliable or as fast as a wired one.
CPAN is the best part and the worst part of Perl.
Ever tried to write a meta package in whatever build system you use (FreeBSD Ports /gentoo whatever/ RPM)? Especially when the ports tree doesn't have all the CPAN modules?
Talk about a mess! That said, you only really have to do it once and then maintain your meta package.
Why are single-byte chars even possible in this day and age in the context of a string?
Because the old grampa C coders really, really like hand-optimized pointer arithmetic*. That and 8 bits is enough for any language blessed by the queen.
*course, if you use wchar you could do the same pointer arithmetic as before.
If you dont mind warping language to deliberately confuse people. For political propaganda, nothing beats perverting words like freedom to make your agenda more lovable.
See also: the republican party, bush, any dictator worth his salt.
Well, theoretically since it all compiles down to MSIL (which, IIRC, is an ISO standard), Mono could reverse engineer it too.
Only Perl can read perl. You can forget about a fancy IDE with intellisense when you use perl.
PHP support means generating a wordlist that would wrap from coast to coast.
Ruby? Dunno.. but like Perl and PHP since it is dynamically typed it is harder to write an IDE for it. Haven't seen what Microsoft has done for it yet.
Javascript? Really depends on how well you can manage keeping your Javascript code in sync with your server code.
but in the Ruby world they are not
Of course they aren't. Ruby is for fashion programmers with iMacs, iTunes and iPhones. Ruby is for programmers who moonlight as bar tenders. Ruby is for companies with numbers in their name. Ruby is for minimalists who eschew corporate wisdom. Ruby is for those who use words like eschew.
Ruby is hip. It is edgy. If you went into a bar and said "I use Ruby", you would get first game on the pool table. If you use Ruby, people call you by your initials, not your name.
You dont use Ruby to just get work done. No sir. You use Ruby to make a statement about who you are.
CF, DT, DHH and M himself are all cool beyond belief. They are the superstar hipsters of our modern programming world. C programmers, Java programmers and .NET programmers could never be as cool as DHH--not even on the best day of their lives.
Go home you Microsoft Player. Go home you inbred C programmers and Billy-Joe-PHP'ers. You are the rednecks of the computing world. You are the fly-over programming languages that keep us busy wondering who uses your language as we our active records fly over your heads.
Last I checked, it is none of those *and* it used to be the powerhouse behind killer Web 3.0 sites like MySpace and FuckedCompany*.
*IIRC.
The spammer (or actually, botnet owner who wrote a spam program) has already figured that out by putting a shim inbetween you and your network card. They just sniff your traffic for anything that looks interesting. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised at all that the botnet software will "turn on" when you use hit up gmail.com and can screen scrape the page while you check your email. I would even bet that it can update its screen scraping rules from some kind of distributed network.
Somebody in this thread said spammers are dumb. That might have been the case five years ago but it is not the case now. The "spam industry" has really evolved to the "botnet industry". These botnet people are smart, smart people. Almost as smart as the P2P people in terms of getting around "damage". Shame they couldn't apply their skill and talent to doing something positive for our society though.
16GB is woefully inadequate for anything but a netbook or a phone
Even then 16gb is inadequate.
The world is moving to digitized video (netflix, tivo, etc). You are looking at a gig an hour for standard diff and probably 3-5 gigs an hour for hi-def. Within a year or so, I promise your phone will be able to play 1080i hi-def content at native resolution.
And the "OMG Bloatware we should all be using hand-rolled for-loops in C" people can step back into their timewarp from 1970. We have fast machines now and pulling off human friendly UI effects like that on the iPhone ain't cheap. And dont even start with "OMG eye candy" because quite frankly, the smooth scrolling and "human" touches make the user experience so much better then before. Turn off those things and the iPhone would feel bland and dull.
Arg... I hate technophobes who wind up working in technology.
Trust me from learned experience, do *not* try to build your own servers. Fry's is *not* open at 2am and trust me, servers have a strong bias for hardware failure (they never do it during the day when you are around for some reason).
And honestly, while I enjoy building my own desktop computers and have done so for the computer I use for business, I'll never do it again for the same reason. You simply cannot afford to fuck around with your computer when it breaks down. It is worth every penny to get a good service plan and let Dell drive to your home/business and replace a busted video card. A million times more so for your servers...
In short, white boxing is great for a home computer, but if money is on the line when it goes down, you are a fool (like I was) to not purchase a "real" computer with a good support plan.
bingo. This is the right answer. And if these servers are "local" (mail/file), make sure to factor in the cost of a fast ass link to your colo facility. I'm no expert, but I do know you can lease things like fiber and copper and have it pulled into your cage at the facility.
Then they need to look at colocation. Either you sink the money into building your own data center (read: ac, power, etc) or you just outsource it to people who do it for a living.
And for that fucking matter how much time (read, cost) does it take to do things like:
Like others have said, virtualize, slow your CPU clocks, take unused disks offline, replace your power supplies
When I first read this, I read it as $6000 and thought "oh, that is kinda cheap". Once I realized it was $600, well... heh... whoever this person is needs to either get a new job or they are like 18 and are still used to white-boxing their computers and doing everything on the cheap.