(my HTC Wizard does fairly well with a 195MHz processor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Wizard [wikipedia.org] imaging what it could do with a 1GHz Atom).
Really? I also have a HTC wizard, and the embedded windows mobile really sucks. Mobile IE is totally useless, the wifi networks interface is very incomplete and sucks. Active sync is totally resource intensive. There is little you can do with mobile Office. In all the windows mobile default applications, only the mail client does the job. Besides useless applications, the windows mobile kernel is always crashing. Looking to non-default applications, Mobile Opera its very cool but it totally nukes the device memory after a while. This is totally unacceptable in a device with WIFI/GPRS/EDGE/IRDA/BT/USB.
The wifi and bluetooth drivers are still missing and the GSM driver is incomplete. With some programming love on them, the wizard would be a much better device.
So no, I don't see Linux in a desktop happening anymore, although I had hoped back then.
Happening for WHO? Those who use Linux are happy with it.
I know you are all looking for a way to escape windows crap. Some part of the solution could be Linux. But guess what? You are right, it will never happen.
I'd have to disagree here. It only improves stability and security if you're willing to keep up with all the endless patches and devote a lot of time towards understanding each patch (and possibly back porting it yourself).
How long don't you build Linux? I was talking about enabling/disabling kernel features using kconfig. Every Linux feature (symbol) has a nice description about it, you can easily choose if you want it or not. If the description is not explicit, you can always have a look at Documentation/
If I don't use KEXEC, why would it be builtin? This is the correct place for my quote: - disabling build of unneeded functionality improves stability and security -
Do YOU want read every single kernel patch and decide if it's relevant to you? I don't. That job is best left to people devoted to kernel maintenance, like a team of people at (insert distribution).
Why read every single patch? When you upgrade your kernel, new features are marked with *NEW*. A quick look at the changelog will also give you an idea about what happened.
I'm sorry, but spending 10 minutes building Linux in every version bump is not a *huge* effort.
Call me a "purist", but I just don't have the time or inclination to re-compile my kernel. I did it many years ago to save a few kilobytes of memory when it was at a premium, but these days, why?
It's not just about memory, disabling build of unneeded functionality improves stability and security.
Why building Linux? The fastest answer I could get was - because we can. Even if windoz users would like to compile their kernel to diminish bloatware, they cannot.
...I think there needs to be a *LOT* of education of the Windows & Apple crowd to make them understand that Linux refers just to the core kernel whilst all the other applications around it are Open Source.
It's worthless saying this over and over.. Just leave them alone wondering about something they will never understand. Let them discuss something they don't use.
While I agree with you, I also don't want to see clowns and dumbasses polluting our friendly opensource ecosystem.
I own a HTC Wizard which unfortunately came with windows mobile.
Mobile IE sucks so much as entire windows mobile. All the UI design is a failure, one has to constantly move the horizontal and vertical scrollbars to view the webpage.
If the screen wasn't small enough, Back/Stop buttons are extremely BIG which makes the viewport area even more small.
Also, Mobile IE is unable to properly handle mime types, it fails to save binary files other than.zip
And of course, like the desktop IE, Mobile IE is incapable of correctly rendering the "small" footprint html used on mobile webpages.
It doesn't support tabbing browsing not even multiple windows!!
I wonder what a piece of crap like this is doing on a PDA with GPRS/EDGE and WIFI
Perhaps it's time to define a standard package manager API (not a standard package manager, just an API available in all major languages), before we get a culture where every piece of software manages its own updates interactively?
That culture is mainly practiced on windows ecosystem (read jail). On some Linux distributions (Gentoo at least) the firefox auto-updater is disabled. Like you said, if ones want to update firefox, he can do it through the package manager.
- Yep, it is awesome to have a system that doesn't popup and beg you for updates and at same time also being one of the most secure systems.
Security is not accomplished by only using the latest browser version, but by using the latest browser, and its dependencies. If the OS architecture is secure by default, that helps too!
Something that has always concerned me (more as I play games less often now) is how much power these cards draw when they aren't pumping out a zillion triangles a second playing DNF. When I'm working on simple desktop things (even using beryl), my Geforce 8400 Linux driver puts the graphic card in 2D mode. The driver also has a "Powermizer" feature which dynamically changes GPU and MEM frequencies on the fly. This is all activated by default.
I even wrote a desktop "gadget" for showing me the nVidia GPU frequency and temperature on the fly on Linux.
And not only they give a source package for linux but they also give support for both qt and gtk widgets.
And for those saying that Linux users don't want a ugly Vista bar on their desktop, I must remind them that Linux had those thingies way before Vista. I'm talking about adesklets, superkaramba and friends..
So yes, I actually feel happy when a big company like Google thinks about us, the minority and little Linux users. Even if I don't need/want what they have to offer.
What's up with all the ajax and interface changes creeping in on slashdot ? They need AJAX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajax_cleanser) to clean/. from trolls like this one.
But, seriously... what the hell do people mean when they say that someone needs to design a "desktop". I've used Linux/FreeBSD as a desktop OS for over a decade. Gnome and KDE both seem fairly robust, with lots of apps and functionality. I totally agree.
WTF is fundamentally missing that it can't be a "desktop"?? Are we talking administration? Apps? Screen savers? Spinning cursor add-ons? iTunes? Virus scanners? Boxed software?
I'm afraid I just don't get what is fundamentally missing here. What is missing from the puzzle for being a "desktop"?
Cheers I see GNU/Linux Desktop as a kitchen and the desktop user as the woman (*shrugs*) responsible for the kitchen.
GNU/Linux gives you the tools and means to do great things like the kitchen gives womans (*shrugs*) power to do amazing cooks.
GNU/Linux desktop needs healthier hacking to run just like you want. The same way, kitchens should be cleaned up and decorated to look like every woman dream.
Don't have time/knowledge to maintain your kitchen? Get a maid!
I keep hearing the "news", but have yet to see anything 1. Build a cross-compiler along with a decent GNU toolchain. 2. ?? 3. Boot linux 4. Profit? No, enjoy it!
Slashdot Mirror
(my HTC Wizard does fairly well with a 195MHz processor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Wizard [wikipedia.org] imaging what it could do with a 1GHz Atom).
Really? I also have a HTC wizard, and the embedded windows mobile really sucks.
Mobile IE is totally useless, the wifi networks interface is very incomplete and sucks.
Active sync is totally resource intensive.
There is little you can do with mobile Office.
In all the windows mobile default applications, only the mail client does the job.
Besides useless applications, the windows mobile kernel is always crashing.
Looking to non-default applications, Mobile Opera its very cool but it totally nukes the device memory after a while.
This is totally unacceptable in a device with WIFI/GPRS/EDGE/IRDA/BT/USB.
But anyway, Linux on the HTC Wizard (http://linwizard.sourceforge.net), which I'm one of the project admins/developers, does a much better job. You can have GPE
http://familiar.handhelds.org/releases/v0.8.2/install/dl-gpe.png
qtopia
http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/e/ea/Qtopia002.png
or even the openmoko
http://www.palminfocenter.com/images/palm-tx-openmoko-2.jpg
running on it.
The wifi and bluetooth drivers are still missing and the GSM driver is incomplete. With some programming love on them, the wizard would be a much better device.
A real geek uses eap-tls
A real geek has a long random key for WPA, and passes it around on a pen drive.
A real hacker leaves the network open and uses openvpn to connect to his gateway.
So no, I don't see Linux in a desktop happening anymore, although I had hoped back then.
Happening for WHO?
Those who use Linux are happy with it.
I know you are all looking for a way to escape windows crap. Some part of the solution could be Linux.
But guess what? You are right, it will never happen.
Stones with engraved symbols from Paleolithic are still readable after all these years.
Write the zeroes and ones into stones?
I'd have to disagree here. It only improves stability and security if you're willing to keep up with all the endless patches and devote a lot of time towards understanding each patch (and possibly back porting it yourself).
How long don't you build Linux?
I was talking about enabling/disabling kernel features using kconfig. Every Linux feature (symbol) has a nice description about it, you can easily choose if you want it or not. If the description is not explicit, you can always have a look at Documentation/
If I don't use KEXEC, why would it be builtin?
This is the correct place for my quote:
- disabling build of unneeded functionality improves stability and security -
Do YOU want read every single kernel patch and decide if it's relevant to you? I don't. That job is best left to people devoted to kernel maintenance, like a team of people at (insert distribution).
Why read every single patch?
When you upgrade your kernel, new features are marked with *NEW*. A quick look at the changelog will also give you an idea about what happened.
I'm sorry, but spending 10 minutes building Linux in every version bump is not a *huge* effort.
Call me a "purist", but I just don't have the time or inclination to re-compile my kernel. I did it many years ago to save a few kilobytes of memory when it was at a premium, but these days, why?
It's not just about memory, disabling build of unneeded functionality improves stability and security.
Why building Linux?
The fastest answer I could get was
- because we can.
Even if windoz users would like to compile their kernel to diminish bloatware, they cannot.
...I think there needs to be a *LOT* of education of the Windows & Apple crowd to make them understand that Linux refers just to the core kernel whilst all the other applications around it are Open Source.
It's worthless saying this over and over..
Just leave them alone wondering about something they will never understand. Let them discuss something they don't use.
While I agree with you, I also don't want to see clowns and dumbasses polluting our friendly opensource ecosystem.
A: theora is good enough for p0rn
B: most of www is made of p0rn
A + B: ?
Google
I own a HTC Wizard which unfortunately came with windows mobile.
Mobile IE sucks so much as entire windows mobile.
All the UI design is a failure, one has to constantly move the horizontal and vertical scrollbars to view the webpage.
If the screen wasn't small enough, Back/Stop buttons are extremely BIG which makes the viewport area even more small.
Also, Mobile IE is unable to properly handle mime types, it fails to save binary files other than .zip
And of course, like the desktop IE, Mobile IE is incapable of correctly rendering the "small" footprint html used on mobile webpages.
It doesn't support tabbing browsing not even multiple windows!!
I wonder what a piece of crap like this is doing on a PDA with GPRS/EDGE and WIFI
Google? It's garbage.
Linux? It's shit.
Best stick with MS. Always works.
Someone is throwing chairs out there...
Yes! If not, an Open Office download is still worth a lot more than a $400 Office CD.
OpenOffice++
Also, Google Docs is always ready to use (no need to pay licenses and fill your windoz boxen with more crap) and supports collaborative editing.
Just my 2cts.
Although using XFCE, I'm very disappointed about the fact some gnome apps started using mono.
Although mono might be a better implementation of .NET, I really don't like to see windows .dll files being installed on my system.
If gnome keeps being embraced and extended, it will for sure be extinguished in the near future.
Perhaps it's time to define a standard package manager API (not a standard package manager, just an API available in all major languages), before we get a culture where every piece of software manages its own updates interactively?
That culture is mainly practiced on windows ecosystem (read jail). On some Linux distributions (Gentoo at least) the firefox auto-updater is disabled.
Like you said, if ones want to update firefox, he can do it through the package manager.
- Yep, it is awesome to have a system that doesn't popup and beg you for updates and at same time also being one of the most secure systems.
Security is not accomplished by only using the latest browser version, but by using the latest browser, and its dependencies. If the OS architecture is secure by default, that helps too!
Gentoo Linux has a nice tutorial for that:
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Gentoo_Router_for_2_ISP,_load_balancing,_switch_traffic_if_link_is_down/up
By the way.. Google is your friend!
I even wrote a desktop "gadget" for showing me the nVidia GPU frequency and temperature on the fly on Linux.
Have a look at DigitalMon on
http://adesklets.sourceforge.net/desklets.html
Screenshot is here:
http://adesklets.sourceforge.net/images/DigitalMon_thumb.png
I agree.
And not only they give a source package for linux but they also give support for both qt and gtk widgets.
And for those saying that Linux users don't want a ugly Vista bar on their desktop, I must remind them that Linux had those thingies way before Vista. I'm talking about adesklets, superkaramba and friends..
So yes, I actually feel happy when a big company like Google thinks about us, the minority and little Linux users. Even if I don't need/want what they have to offer.
.. Google demonstrated the first HTC device running Android with multitouch support.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/28/google-demos-the-htc-dream-at-i-o-conference
This is real news, a working device that we can buy. Not a slow demo running on a laptop (want to guess the laptop specifications?)
Microsoft is always late.. And when they finally made it, they act like they were the first. ROFTL
Linux (and not only) supports multi-input on X for at least two years. You can run whatever multitouch device you want with it.
Check out the multi-input X project website at http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/mpx/
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Packet_Shaping
http://www.engardelinux.org/
I'm afraid I just don't get what is fundamentally missing here. What is missing from the puzzle for being a "desktop"?
Cheers I see GNU/Linux Desktop as a kitchen and the desktop user as the woman (*shrugs*) responsible for the kitchen.
GNU/Linux gives you the tools and means to do great things like the kitchen gives womans (*shrugs*) power to do amazing cooks.
GNU/Linux desktop needs healthier hacking to run just like you want. The same way, kitchens should be cleaned up and decorated to look like every woman dream.
Don't have time/knowledge to maintain your kitchen? Get a maid!
I keep hearing the "news", but have yet to see anything 1. Build a cross-compiler along with a decent GNU toolchain.
2. ??
3. Boot linux
4. Profit? No, enjoy it!