Ahh, a package manager douche. I should do that to my machine every now and again. I know I leave some dependencies sitting out there when I remove some packages. Could be good for the old hard drive:-)
Yes, the GPL does require that, it also is the reason you have the GPL code to make your "intellectual property" out of. You are receiving, in the form of GPL'd code, the hard work of thousands of developers who are saying, we can make money other ways that restricting a field of human endeavor to those who have the money to pay for knowledge and tools, and in fact, this model provides a MORE information and knowledge based economy than the locked down, NDA'd, proprietary model.
Imagine an economy where you get paid for the skills you have, not the skills you could afford to buy. Where your competitive advantage comes from hard work, not connections. Where you make a decent living by providing support and deployment to others who do not have the time nor the inclination to master those skills.
Proprietary lockin is not necessary to have an information economy, nor is it necessary to have commercial software development (Novell, IBM, etc.)
Please come to understand free software and the free software development model before you throw uneducated stones.
I would certainly agree that it IS free as in beer. I was just saying that Ubuntu itself could also be considered free as in freedom. No argument here, please move along:)
It's ridiculous to call the software they produce and distribute free as in beer. They contribute upstream, they release all their source, they give redistribution rights, they don't discriminate on field of endeavor.
They are allowing FREEDOM (ie use the software you need if none that support the 4 freedoms are available). Isn't it less free to turn your nose up at something than to inform your users of the licensing issues, let them know they won't get support, and let them use their computers the way THEY see fit?
What definition of FREEDOM do you have that restricts users rights to use something in the name of "freedom"?
That, in my estimation, is freer than a restrictive definition of freedom. Freedom should never take rights away, only add guarantee that you won't take them away from others.
It lets me have control over my hardware. It puts me on the path that is the future model of software development. It teaches me more about what my system is doing "behind the scenes". It frees me up to be able to build a server on my home network with old hardware. It lets me do whatever I want (and can find F/LOSS for) with my computer. It uses my hardware more effectively. It allows me to not run standalone craplets to make up for my OS's lack of security design. It allows me to share one system in a multiuser environment and have multiple users have their own desktop experience, file system, and settings.
Not to be pedantic boy, but unless The Economist paid you for that post, its a malapropism to call it an advertorial. An advertorial is when someone pays you to present a story on something as though it were your opinion/a news piece.
Sorry, I *THINK* my karma can take the hit (ducks)
This is not the straw man you're looking for. Do you remember the days when there was a regulated market for water, heat, and electricity? It didn't mean everyone paid the same amount no matter what they used, it meant that the rate wasn't set based on a profit motive, but instead set to cover the incremental costs of providing the service to you.
So no, you're not better off than when it was "socialist". Instead you're lining the pockets of some shareholder while you worry about what the next guy is or isn't "getting on your dime". Nice try, though, I'm sure your Republican friends will smile and nod politely at your next Kiwanis luncheon at that one.
(I know I shouldn't jump into this debate, but here I go)
If you have the bandwidth to d/l everything and can spend that time on it, why do you object to the packages you want being readily available through the repos and only d/l'ing a bootable iso with a barebones system on it (granted, nothing's as barebones as the gentoo livecd, but come on).
If you have that bandwidth, just d/l the 300 meg iso, install, then synaptic/apt-get/(insert other distro package manager here) all the packages you want. That way everything's up to date when you're done and you didn't waste the time d/l'ing 8000 out of date when they're burnt packs....
Anyhow, not trying to troll this, just curious about the difference in attitude. When I d/l a new distro cd, I want to see the out of the box hardware support before I mess with anything else. The best way to do that is a small livecd.
I'm really not too sure on the MythTV side of things. I don't use my box for that. I just have the battle scars from fighting with an ATi card under linux (with both Gentoo and Ubuntu). Just wanted to save you that pain:)
DON'T DO IT. Radeon AIW support under linux sucks. I have a desktop sys that used to be my gaming machine that I just can't use because of the poor driver support...
I love Ubuntu, but this isn't an Ubuntu only issue. ATi's linux drivers are the worst thing as far as stability goes. (you can't switch to a terminal and back without a complete system lock, you can't switch rendering modes without a complete system lock, you can't go to sleep and come back without a complete system lock)
I disagree. The truly lazy user will end up with linux when its the default and bug #1 is fixed. Until then, they're honestly more trouble then they're worth. Go to #ubuntu and see what I mean. When Canonical has made $1 billion from support contracts and has the bloat to support the type of bitching that we've seen on this very thread, then linux will want lazy users. Until then let's stick with IT staff and the people who make decisions. Make it better and they will come.
I'm not meaning to flame, but I have been using linux for 4 months now. I STARTED with Gentoo being a complete noob and just learned. If you are willing to just fucking google it, and RTFM, you will make it work. Its not magic, its software. If you can't at this point make it work, wait until its installed by default, you won't be happy until then. Else, let the rest of us enjoy our higher quality, more secure, better designed software and stop saying: why isn't there a wizard to install this". There is you dolt, its called a package manager, I know its different than windoze, but if you actually take the time to figure out how it works its FAR better. No more searching around for updates, no more digging for drivers./rant
There is nothing in any GPL v1, 2, 3.. that says you can't partner with a commercial company. There are many commercial companies producing GPL'd code (Canonical anyone?).
However, it was always the goal of the GPL to make it such that if you wish to benefit from the years of hard work GIVEN to you FREELY by developers that created the GNU toolset, you would have to play by their rules. Which are very simple. Make your work freely available. Distribute the source code... now.. you can charge for the distribution.. you can charge to set it up for someone.. you can charge for support.. you can charge for training...
It is redirecting the money to where it belongs. In the information age, knowledge is power/money. If you have the knowledge to do your own support/training/deployment/sales pitch to management, more power to you, you have now become a consultant that can sell that service.
There are VERY viable commercial models using the GPL, you just have to claw your way out of the proprietary software model that is so unnaturally imposed by our backwards IP laws (thus the GPL is helping you to make this cognitive shift).
I learned one thing yesterday about nVidia's 32 bit compatibility libraries. I thought it was something broken in an update to Feisty, but the same thing happened when an xorg-core update pushed. You have to reinstall your nvidia drivers (or just run ldconfig perhaps) anytime an xorg update comes through.. so I d/graded for no reason....
That'll help as long as you can't just grab a good chunk of the memory space, and sift through it.. then who cares if its randomized, you can still find personal data in it if it loads "user data"... anyhow, just speculation.
Hmm.. I haven't heard this mentioned before (what I'm about to say), but wouldn't that be a huge issue when it comes to other memory vulnerabilities that you have a bunch of prefetched data just waiting to be read?
I agree that the wireless thing is a bit of a pain, but I've heard great things about the improvement on Feisty. The only reason I had to move away from Feisty is a break (its a beta folks) in a 32 bit compatibility library in a large update push. I would encourage you to give it a try when Feisty goes gold (sometime this month).
The big focus in feisty seems to have been on drivers working out of the box. I still had to install ndiswrapper, but at least I only had to use the package out of synaptic instead of (as I can tell from your command line example) the package direct from source.
Once you get ndiswrapper going, they've included network-manager-gnome by default, which handles all of the connecting for you (ie no iwconfig, ifup, etc).
You hit on the biggest pain (as the competing faq's will show you) in the Ubuntu world. This, however, is not particular to Ubuntu, and is also BY DESIGN of the hardware manufacturers. The cards are designed such that the have to have the firmware to run them loaded runtime. That built in wifi card has no idea what its supposed to do except for wait for firmware. They then do not release any details to folks willing to do driver development for linux FOR FREE!
So, the fact that we get them working at all under Edgy (which, if you take a careful step, by step approach, there's a hell of a success rate) and that its *almost* automagic under Feisty, is actually a pretty impressive feat.
Slashdot Mirror
And thus is the problem with too much experimental cruft built from source... thus is the life of a tinkerer. :)
Feisty: http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/otherosfs/wine
Edgy: http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/otherosfs/wine
Dapper: http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/otherosfs/wine
Breezy: http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/otherosfs/wine
Hoary: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/otherosfs/wine
Warty: http://packages.ubuntu.com/warty/otherosfs/wine
Hmm.. Seems to have been in Universe since the beginning. Simple search on packages.ubuntu.com answers many questions.
Ahh, a package manager douche. I should do that to my machine every now and again. I know I leave some dependencies sitting out there when I remove some packages. Could be good for the old hard drive :-)
This in a thread about Dell distributing Certificates for SUSE.. sorry freedom is a vital topic to this conversation.
Yes, the GPL does require that, it also is the reason you have the GPL code to make your "intellectual property" out of. You are receiving, in the form of GPL'd code, the hard work of thousands of developers who are saying, we can make money other ways that restricting a field of human endeavor to those who have the money to pay for knowledge and tools, and in fact, this model provides a MORE information and knowledge based economy than the locked down, NDA'd, proprietary model.
Imagine an economy where you get paid for the skills you have, not the skills you could afford to buy. Where your competitive advantage comes from hard work, not connections. Where you make a decent living by providing support and deployment to others who do not have the time nor the inclination to master those skills.
Proprietary lockin is not necessary to have an information economy, nor is it necessary to have commercial software development (Novell, IBM, etc.)
Please come to understand free software and the free software development model before you throw uneducated stones.
I would certainly agree that it IS free as in beer. I was just saying that Ubuntu itself could also be considered free as in freedom. No argument here, please move along :)
It's ridiculous to call the software they produce and distribute free as in beer. They contribute upstream, they release all their source, they give redistribution rights, they don't discriminate on field of endeavor.
They are allowing FREEDOM (ie use the software you need if none that support the 4 freedoms are available). Isn't it less free to turn your nose up at something than to inform your users of the licensing issues, let them know they won't get support, and let them use their computers the way THEY see fit?
What definition of FREEDOM do you have that restricts users rights to use something in the name of "freedom"?
That, in my estimation, is freer than a restrictive definition of freedom. Freedom should never take rights away, only add guarantee that you won't take them away from others.
Isn't Ubuntu Free as in Freedom?
s ing
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/licen
They distribute some stuff which isn't, but its GNU/Linux based on Debian for god's sake.. do you get more Free than that?
Its a good point and nothing inflammatory.... ?
Well, hit this guy in the meta-moderation please!
Well,
It lets me have control over my hardware. It puts me on the path that is the future model of software development. It teaches me more about what my system is doing "behind the scenes". It frees me up to be able to build a server on my home network with old hardware. It lets me do whatever I want (and can find F/LOSS for) with my computer. It uses my hardware more effectively. It allows me to not run standalone craplets to make up for my OS's lack of security design. It allows me to share one system in a multiuser environment and have multiple users have their own desktop experience, file system, and settings.
Should I go on?
Not to be pedantic boy, but unless The Economist paid you for that post, its a malapropism to call it an advertorial. An advertorial is when someone pays you to present a story on something as though it were your opinion/a news piece.
Sorry, I *THINK* my karma can take the hit (ducks)
This is not the straw man you're looking for. Do you remember the days when there was a regulated market for water, heat, and electricity? It didn't mean everyone paid the same amount no matter what they used, it meant that the rate wasn't set based on a profit motive, but instead set to cover the incremental costs of providing the service to you.
So no, you're not better off than when it was "socialist". Instead you're lining the pockets of some shareholder while you worry about what the next guy is or isn't "getting on your dime". Nice try, though, I'm sure your Republican friends will smile and nod politely at your next Kiwanis luncheon at that one.
I modded it so its only fair that I take the bait. How about the US oil market? How about "de-regulated" electricity?
I'll take socialism over laissez-faire capitalism any day of the week. How's your heating bill?
(I know I shouldn't jump into this debate, but here I go)
If you have the bandwidth to d/l everything and can spend that time on it, why do you object to the packages you want being readily available through the repos and only d/l'ing a bootable iso with a barebones system on it (granted, nothing's as barebones as the gentoo livecd, but come on).
If you have that bandwidth, just d/l the 300 meg iso, install, then synaptic/apt-get/(insert other distro package manager here) all the packages you want. That way everything's up to date when you're done and you didn't waste the time d/l'ing 8000 out of date when they're burnt packs....
Anyhow, not trying to troll this, just curious about the difference in attitude. When I d/l a new distro cd, I want to see the out of the box hardware support before I mess with anything else. The best way to do that is a small livecd.
I'm really not too sure on the MythTV side of things. I don't use my box for that. I just have the battle scars from fighting with an ATi card under linux (with both Gentoo and Ubuntu). Just wanted to save you that pain :)
DON'T DO IT. Radeon AIW support under linux sucks. I have a desktop sys that used to be my gaming machine that I just can't use because of the poor driver support...
I love Ubuntu, but this isn't an Ubuntu only issue. ATi's linux drivers are the worst thing as far as stability goes. (you can't switch to a terminal and back without a complete system lock, you can't switch rendering modes without a complete system lock, you can't go to sleep and come back without a complete system lock)
Hmm.. google impaired:
s temHowtoa p
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EncryptedFilesy
http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/net/libnss-ldap
http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/admin/libpam-ld
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpSamba
Did this make the front page? I'm as anti-M$ as the next guy, but come on, a few lines on a blog... with a pic of a baggied dvd case?
Geez, what's up with Firehose today?
I disagree. The truly lazy user will end up with linux when its the default and bug #1 is fixed. Until then, they're honestly more trouble then they're worth. Go to #ubuntu and see what I mean. When Canonical has made $1 billion from support contracts and has the bloat to support the type of bitching that we've seen on this very thread, then linux will want lazy users. Until then let's stick with IT staff and the people who make decisions. Make it better and they will come.
/rant
I'm not meaning to flame, but I have been using linux for 4 months now. I STARTED with Gentoo being a complete noob and just learned. If you are willing to just fucking google it, and RTFM, you will make it work. Its not magic, its software. If you can't at this point make it work, wait until its installed by default, you won't be happy until then. Else, let the rest of us enjoy our higher quality, more secure, better designed software and stop saying: why isn't there a wizard to install this". There is you dolt, its called a package manager, I know its different than windoze, but if you actually take the time to figure out how it works its FAR better. No more searching around for updates, no more digging for drivers.
There is nothing in any GPL v1, 2, 3.. that says you can't partner with a commercial company. There are many commercial companies producing GPL'd code (Canonical anyone?).
:)
However, it was always the goal of the GPL to make it such that if you wish to benefit from the years of hard work GIVEN to you FREELY by developers that created the GNU toolset, you would have to play by their rules. Which are very simple. Make your work freely available. Distribute the source code... now.. you can charge for the distribution.. you can charge to set it up for someone.. you can charge for support.. you can charge for training...
It is redirecting the money to where it belongs. In the information age, knowledge is power/money. If you have the knowledge to do your own support/training/deployment/sales pitch to management, more power to you, you have now become a consultant that can sell that service.
There are VERY viable commercial models using the GPL, you just have to claw your way out of the proprietary software model that is so unnaturally imposed by our backwards IP laws (thus the GPL is helping you to make this cognitive shift).
If you disagree, don't use GPL'd code.
It's really pretty simple
only if you're from Canada, eh.
I learned one thing yesterday about nVidia's 32 bit compatibility libraries. I thought it was something broken in an update to Feisty, but the same thing happened when an xorg-core update pushed. You have to reinstall your nvidia drivers (or just run ldconfig perhaps) anytime an xorg update comes through.. so I d/graded for no reason....
That'll help as long as you can't just grab a good chunk of the memory space, and sift through it.. then who cares if its randomized, you can still find personal data in it if it loads "user data"... anyhow, just speculation.
Hmm.. I haven't heard this mentioned before (what I'm about to say), but wouldn't that be a huge issue when it comes to other memory vulnerabilities that you have a bunch of prefetched data just waiting to be read?
I agree that the wireless thing is a bit of a pain, but I've heard great things about the improvement on Feisty. The only reason I had to move away from Feisty is a break (its a beta folks) in a 32 bit compatibility library in a large update push. I would encourage you to give it a try when Feisty goes gold (sometime this month).
The big focus in feisty seems to have been on drivers working out of the box. I still had to install ndiswrapper, but at least I only had to use the package out of synaptic instead of (as I can tell from your command line example) the package direct from source.
Once you get ndiswrapper going, they've included network-manager-gnome by default, which handles all of the connecting for you (ie no iwconfig, ifup, etc).
You hit on the biggest pain (as the competing faq's will show you) in the Ubuntu world. This, however, is not particular to Ubuntu, and is also BY DESIGN of the hardware manufacturers. The cards are designed such that the have to have the firmware to run them loaded runtime. That built in wifi card has no idea what its supposed to do except for wait for firmware. They then do not release any details to folks willing to do driver development for linux FOR FREE!
So, the fact that we get them working at all under Edgy (which, if you take a careful step, by step approach, there's a hell of a success rate) and that its *almost* automagic under Feisty, is actually a pretty impressive feat.