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The End is Nigh for XP
SlinkySausage writes "Computer makers have been told they'll no longer be able to get Windows XP OEM by the end of this year, despite strong ongoing demand for the OS. Analysts and computer makers are wondering if the move is premature given Vista's ongoing performance and compatibility issues. Dell recently said it would reintroduce XP on a range of machines due to customer demand but Microsoft will only allow this until the end of the year."
Is it just me or does this move from Microsoft seem rather desperate?
Was Microsofts older versions of Windows phased out this fast too?
I guess the people at Microsoft have a really hard time accepting that many people (and companies!) have gotten comfortable with XP and does not want to get something different. Maybe Microsoft have been taking to long to come with a "new OS" this time?
I think this will definitely be a good thing for those who wish more people would use Linux on the desktop and possible also laptop market. People like Mark Shuttleworth and his fanboys can start cheering already.
I myself am no longer so certain that getting everyone to use Linux is what is best for Linux as a whole right now.
My main reason for thinking this is seeing how little Ubuntu contributes to the rest of the "open-source community".
Maybe I am wrong, in that case I would love to hear why.
I gladly leave the picking up of unsatisfied Windows users to other flavors of Linux, I myself prefer to stick with Gentoo and wish that all the developers at Gentoo would realize that Gentoo just isn't and is not supposed to become an "click and go" OS.
Others who will cheer at this news will probably be those trying to earn some money by selling cracked software, only this time people are not going to come to them to get the newest software but will want the "good old XP". I don't think they care much though, as long as they can make money.
Maybe there will even become a real market for buying and selling those XP-licenses that people have lying around?
Despite the many hours of frustration it's caused me, it remains the best OS they've made so far.
So since they can't sell vista they shall force it upon us. Time to burn stacks of Ubuntu Live CD's! GOGO!
XP is actually not that bad, especially compared to pre-WinME OSs. Win2K is pretty good too.
Gun?
Check.
I think you can figure out the rest.
Seriously... This is a good move on Microsoft's part only if they enjoy annoying their customers.
Wait, why did I bother putting that 'only if' in there?
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
The last copies are going to be a hot commodity next year. I definately plan to set a couple aside before then. Hello Ebay!
Force once Microsoft is trying to do the right thing.
That most major retailers that I can still find XP at are cutting the price.... Makes it easier to pick up a 6-Pack ;)
Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
It's funny, that even the compusa and bestbuy salespersons are telling me that I should latch onto any secondhand xp copies I can get my hands on simply because Vista is causing them and their customers nothing but headaches.
Is it just me, or is Microsoft shooting themselves in the foot by pushing this new, and somewhat unpopular product into the marketplace?
for sale
I'm a self-modifying sig virus
I am interested to find that XP is being phased out so fast. Personally, if I were Microsoft, I think it would make great sense to leave the machines as "Vista Certified" and put XP on them with no upgrade cd. This way, they can still double charge, all while converting their new user base to Vista.
Another thing is this just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If XP is selling, why loose customers, and thus profit, to something that is going to shy customers away.
They will write a nice bonus down by the end of the year. I will certainly make sure to buy one version and download all patch / package/service pack offline to be able to reconstruct an XP machine alone.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
They're going to take XP off the market, then a couple months later after they get tired of everyone bitching about Vista, they'll reintroduce it as Windows Classic. Either that or as XP SE.
From the article:
If you're a consumer, you're unlikely to be managing more than say 2.4 OS images at home
What is the 0.4? Windows 98?
I have a fresh box of XP/Office I bought through a friend at Microsoft for cheap. Still haven't had an opportunity to use it yet, though!
I will install this in parallels on the new Mac I'll buy. Probably also install it on its windows partition just in case I need Windows drivers for some app.
I know the U.S. government loves Microsoft and all, but it seems to me there must be something wrong with a company that is both a convicted monopolist and a key part of the corporate infrastructure being able to force a switch to a new OS like this so quickly, especially when the new one involves massive changes and massive headaches. I know they must like the idea of being able to get everyone to buy Vista but this is ridiculous and only insane people think it is normal conduct. Every new MS product release since Windows 2000 has included one sort of a scam or another that overshadowed any technical merits of the upgrade.
Congratulations, Microsoft. You've accomplished the impossible.
Our favorite used to be Windows 2000 Pro, because it didn't spend a lot of time getting in our way of booting up and running automated applications.
Then, Microsoft pulled Windows 2000 last year. So we moved to XP Pro..after some pain in getting rid of most of the "were Microsoft, and we are going to think for you" eye candy and automated autoconfig BS, we again had a stable OS to build on, or so we thought.
But having been burned, we started one of our new digital signage projects last year based on Slackware Linux...and we are quite happy with it. Yes it took longer, but we don't have to worry about MS pulling the rug out from under us. We don't have to worry about losing our development investment with Linux.
Apple's Steve jobs pulled a similar stupid stunt when he pulled the plug on the Power PC and all the development around it. We had built products around that too, but after having our products rendered useless by Apple's decision, (not once but twice, remember Nubus?) we'll never ever develop for Apple ever again.
What MS doesn't get about companies like mine is that there is no way we'd ever build a dedicated box or appliance application on Vista. The premise is a joke. If MS had any sense left, they'd keep XP around so that the OEM market had something to work with that wasn't just a collection of glorified myopic and incompatible eye candy.
I wonder when they will stop "activating" windows for us and make everyone upgrade ...
Just incase mods were wondering, no, it's not a Slashdot troll / meme. Off-topic perhaps though.
is that sooner or later someone is going to remember what copyright is for.... When that happens any product they are declining to sell will NOT be under copyright.
1. Old version works
2. New one still doesn't
3. Force everybody to buy the new one
4. Tech support inundated with calls to work around what should have been fixed years ago
5. Charge people for support. "Did you want to upgrade to SP8 for just $49.95?"
6. a) Profit!
b) Throw chairs when people dump Microsoft
7. Developers! Developers! Developers!
8. Repeat #1 thru 7 as often as you wish
Eventually, as it always happens, there will be bug releases and new drivers for Windows Vista. Upgrading to them is as easily as doing "Windows Update." Linux (and BSD) distros will never be this easily patched due to the very nature of being open source. I only have to go to 1 web site to update my PC's - Windows Update - and it's incredibly simple - just click on Update and voila, it's done and everything works.
.msi installation. And with the great new way that Vista works, the .msi files that require admin rights with custom actions may not run like they did in XP or older systems. (no more "and"s!)
Really? Try doing that with non-MS software or you do not use any?
AutoDesk or Maya or OpenOffice or Turbo Tax or any other application you can think of that is not MS. Can you use Windows Update and it is incredibly simple?
Linux distros are MUCH easier to patch because they are open source and because they are distributions not just bare-bone OS. Last I checked, I could update my Debian boxes with just aptitude or apt-get. And any non-Debian software usually has their own archive or provides a deb file. And installing a deb file is usually easier than installing a
Yes, I'm speaking from experience in all of these areas.
I tried Vista and didn't like it very much, and I've got a really hi-end PC (3+ GHz Conroe, X1950XT ATI, 2+GB RAM) so it wasn't the performance issue.
I'm just so used to XP and somehow the transparent windows just isn't a strong enuff hook to get me to switch.
I hope they reconsider, I enjoy my current dual-boot XP/Ubuntu setup and would prefer not to have Vista forced on me for at least a few more years.
This makes little sense considering when product support for XP ends:
Mainstream product support for XP ends on April 14th, 2009, with extended support (security patches only) until April 8th, 2014.
That's actually better than Windows 2000's support: 13 years of security updates as against 10 years for Win 2000 (whose extended support ends on July 13th, 2010).
http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/
Dell, having had a long relationship with Microsoft, knew that Microsoft would try to shove Vista down their throats -- ready or not. Combined with Apple's recent success, I wonder if this prompted their foray into consumer Linux.
I agree with some of this, but many other operating systems and distros include an equivalent to windows update. Mac OS has software update. Redhat, Ubuntu and many other linux distros include a gui software update like product. Microsoft doesn't even use a website anymore in vista. Its all an app that connects to a server (using HTTP or some other protocol). With Redhat EL 3 I could even get driver updates for some binary blob drivers pushed down. I think Suse has this also.
There are downsides to Linux, but this is not one of them. I think a few of the BSDs are going this route too. FreeBSD has a freebsd-update tool in 6.2. It downloads binary "patch" files and applies them to the userland/kernel for you. Its a new feature and still needs work. Its also a command line app. I haven't checked, but PC-BSD may tie into this also.. if not they could use their PBI system for that I would think.
We are in the planning stages with MidnightBSD for a software update and ports system. Our security officer has written a new patch generator to make src patches. This will integrate with our new mports mport tool. (think portupgrade + portinstall + portversion + pkg_add...) Some of this is already prototyped in perl and we plan to rewrite most of it in C as a library with a CLI and GNUstep gui.
Open source can be this easy. It should be this easy.
I don't think Linux will get customers over Microsoft's mistake. The few that would leave over vista will probably go to Apple. I doubt its going to be that significant though. Most people will suck it up in two or three years and adopt vista or its successor. Most people skip a windows release anyway.
MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
I think the next few years are going to bring about huge changes in the OS market, it's already apparent that the importance of windows is on the decline (with the two notable exceptions being gaming and the corporate exchange environment). The only question left is what exactly will these changes bring?
For all of the quirks and problems that Vista has (I bought a Dell laptop with Vista but installed XP instead), it is still much, much simpler than Linux for your average user: mom & pop, teenage / college kids, young professionals.
I don't agree with that statement, the differences between vista and xp are the same between macos and windows, and in this case windows and linux.
That argument could of been made a year ago, now its not the case.. Really its not, i have my 2nd language english speaking girlfriend who has used windows all her life switch over to ubuntu within a day, the only difference for her is the start button is at the top of the screen.
If it breaks she calls a techy (me) to fix it, If it were windows, same diff.
How about foreign countries, especially developing world, if their computer is not powerful enough to run VISTA... btw, please click on this stanford link for a test on google analytics assignment.
They just can't sell that resource eating piece of stupid dragon and pretend to make us swallow it at the force. So then we have to buy just bigger computer. HEY MICROSOFT IF YOU WANT TO SELL SOFTWARE THEN MAKE IT THE RIGHT WAY. You made it too much piece of crap this time. Of course you are not selling a piece of shit and then tell those bunches of lies that is the best selling OS ever. My finger to you for your lies.
Eventually, as it always happens, there will be bug releases and new drivers for Windows Vista. Upgrading to them is as easily as doing "Windows Update." Linux (and BSD) distros will never be this easily patched due to the very nature of being open source. I only have to go to 1 web site to update my PC's - Windows Update - and it's incredibly simple - just click on Update and voila, it's done and everything works.
Again, wrong, Ubuntu has software update service siting in their version of the systray where windows has theirs.
And Microsofts turn around on patches have been worse then mac and Linux's track record in the past. Despite what you may think, Linux and MacOS foundation and design is better equipped to deal with legacy issues and the implementation patches. Microsoft has struggled continuously with this issue and if im correct recently struggled releasing a set of patches just the other day, I think this is the 3rd day in a row Microsoft had to do an update on my PC, the 2nd update left my pc with a memory violation which the next update had to fix.
My advise is really see the new and upcoming, linux developers arnet really that short sighted to allow the same issues that has always been an issue get in the way this time.
Mac with OS X anyone?
And the claim that Windows Update is better than update systems for Linux is so wrong it's not funny. Sure, Windows Update keeps Windows (and maybe Microsoft Office) updated. But what about all the other applications on the system? They come (if you're lucky) with their own update systems, all of which work differently. The Fedora Core system my mother is running includes image-editing software, messaging clients, etc. etc. all of which are kept updated by the same update systme.
Open Source makes it possible for a single distributor to manage updates for all the softare on the system. In contrast, it's impossible for Microsoft (or anyone else) to manage updates for Adobe and Qualcomm and Apple as well as for their own software.
Danny.
I have written over 900 book reviews
Man, I used to beat someone like you up in high school.
I feel old. (Still have no patience for evangelists, I must be new here, etc. etc.)
For the Fedora users:
yum -y update
For Windows Users
Run Windows Update
Do you want to reboot now?
Later...
Do you want to reboot now?
Later...
Do you want to reboot now?
Oops I'm away from my desk for five minutes.
Come back. WHere's all my stuff!
Users don't care about upgrades all that much. As long as it works, they won't bother. When they need a new feature, they buy a new CD, insert it, and click "Install" in the Autorun dialog which appears. It's simple enough.
And the vast majority of forced Windows users are corporations. They have Windows Server 2003, Outlook, NetMeeting, etc. all integrated into their back office systems. They are not going to switch out their entire infrastructure to Linux due to some OEM issues.
They will if their IT officers actually took the time to see what the rest of the market offered. You'll find most of these "specific" solutions are not that specific to Microsoft branded software anymore. And if you can show the cost of migrating their systems to the new Microsoft software (all new vista etc) against other alternate solutions and show the definite cost advantage then businesses will defiantly change over.
The fear that you have as an sysadmin is (well founded however) the reason why your infrastructure wont change. Consider, You move over to open source and you fail doing so then yes you'll loose your job and look bad to your bosses. Pick a Microsoft solution to do the job and it fails, you'll keep your job and simply blame Microsoft for your failure.
AND THAT MY FRIEND! is a true tech admins duty these days :)
Well this is something I was regretting.
I have been a long time user of Windows (since the 3.1 days) and have tried every OS they released (except for ME) since then.
I must say I liked Win 98SE a lot. And then I discovered Win2k. But to me Xp was the amalgamation of both.
It runs smoothly and doing what I do on the PC (web browsing, Winamp listening, Battlefield 2 (and other games) and VLC movie watching) it works perfectly. Nearly 100% of the time without an issue.
I have tried Ubuntu (and I did actually like it a lot) and also FreeBSD back in the day (was impossible for a high school teenager with other things on my mind to try to comprehend it).
I am currently a help desk technician. I help people (regular Joes) with their problems. Problems with printing or email archiving etc.
I must say XP is very easy to navigate and do things from simple commands to powerful policy lock downs.
Now I did experiment with Vista (No I didn't buy it and I wasn't one of the beta testers) and the first thing I encountered was my dislike for it.
Microsoft has changed the way that their OS looks (well minor/major improvements are good but....) to the point of making the functionality of it severely hindered.
So I installed Vista Ultimate on my machine. The very first thing I noticed was that navigating my folders was quite a lot more difficult than in XP (or any other MS OS. Why I ask?? I mean its not like navigating folders is something that people don't regularly want to do!!). Now with the default interface I found it almost impossible (it literally took me an hours worth of forum reading etc.) to work out how to turn on hidden files and how to get the familiar File, Edit, View menu up the top of explorer (WTF? Removing that as a Window's default isn't an improvement!!).
Eventually the company I work for (a government health provider) will go over to Vista. This will make help desk support and general troubleshooting a problem. Instead of being able to say (over the phone) "Click Start and then My Computer. Click on File and then Open and then browse to D drive and select the template folder there" I will now have to say something like "Now click the colourful icon in the bottom left corner. Go to Computer then click the icon of a little man running. Now click the brown box that looks like a little house. Now type in "D" and then hit enter. Now select the little flashing house icon again and then type in "Templates". Now eventually you should see a listing of flashing grey and black text on a transparent background. Click the third option which should read "Show in Explorer""!!
Why did they change the appearance of a perfectly viable and working, efficient interface (XP I am refering to here) and replace it with colourful meaningless icons and pictures.
My opinion if Vista is that I will never use it again. I will not be buying it. If I am forced to use it (which is what the article seems to allude to. That MS will eventually (and quickly I might add) drop their support for XP and push everyone to Vista) I will give up using MS products and move to Linux to get the things done I want to get done (I have used Firefox for a long time and i know of the XMMS(??) player for music. I like what WINE and Cedega are doing with games).
XP is the last MS operating system I think I will use. By dropping support for it so quickly (granted this is just Dell not supporting it anymore but I do hope that Microsoft keeps up their support for many years to come as they did with 98 and 2000) they are forcing me, a loyal paying customer of all of their OS range (not inclusing ME. God... WhY?!@) and a supporter of their environment through my work for many years as a help desk technician, to be forced to use an alternative OS. I'm not a big fan of Macs just as I am not a big fan of Linux yet. For one reason, theres not really many native, fun gaming environments (like the BF franchise or SWAT/Rainbow Six tactical shooters) available. Also the things I do like and am grateful for within a Windows OS (m
Let us also not forget the bane of windows program updates: Every app wants to update itself with a separate updater that is started at boot time. So now you have Windows Update, Adobe Update, Java Update, Quicktime update, Corel update and whatnot starting with the desktop slowing your computer and eating up bandwidth while also annoying you... Also restarts are big PITA. I update some non-kernel component like paint and it needs a reboot. Linux distros at least use one app for updates. On the other hand most updates for linux aren't patches but new versions of programs. So downloads are HUGE compared to MS ones. Actually the winner of the update debate will be who can hide the updates being done form Joe User. Windows does a very poor job at that (every program wants to update itself and jumps into the face of the user, and I'm not even mentioning the 'restart needed' nagware) while some distros are better off but not truly automatic.
I think, therefore you are.
Is not then microsoft interfering with competition by withdrawing / overpricing previous versions? One should recall in the past that DOS 3 successfully competed with DOS 4.
OS/2 - because choice is a terrible thing to waste.
As stated some issues still remains with Vista, and XP is somewhat mature product that still works.
Actually I was browsing Dell the other night since a father of a friend needed a new computer. You know the cheap workstation for around $800, so I choosed Dell since you could get On-site service, so geeks wont have to come around if he breaks the "any-key".
To my surprise Dell offered only Vista on their PCs, but they still kept the systems at 512MB of RAM despite stating themselves Vista required 1GB to be bearable and 2GB to be happy.
Get a full blown PC with Vista for $800, but you need the $200 add-on package to boot Vista.
Horns are really just a broken halo.
I know; it's okay. Times, they are a changin', eh?
XaNk: now I remember why I hated the girls in high school
XaNk: because none of them would talk to me
Who modded this drivel "Insightful"?
Just about any Linux distro released in the past couple of years has an update tool which will not only patch the OS, but all of the applications as well. All of the additional tools you need to buy to make Windows useful have to be updated separately.
Linux is MUCH simpler than that.
I don't have to go to ANY website to update my current desktop (SLED 10), an icon glows orange in my toolbar, clicking it gives me the option to update.
I work in I.T. as an MS sysadmin.
That explains a lot.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
how long have people been pushed around by microsoft?
not long enough apparently, as i still make easy money picking up contracts to write updated code to run on these platforms.
do i feel like a crook for making money off this?
simply put... no.
is it wrong that a company push unsecured 'upgrades' like vista? of course.
but consider this before you flame me... everyone from the neighborhood security sites to the u.s. government has expressed concern about microsoft security over the past several years... and the general public cannot be bothered enough to care.
should i then be bothered about cashing in on the general public?
i don't think so.
welcome, vista... thanks for helping me feed my children at the expense of the unconcerned.
fucking cracks yo
Huh? You really should go download Ubuntu.
I'm a Windows admin too, and started playing with Ubuntu about 6 months ago. It's a damn site easier to patch than windows.
As others have said, Microsoft Update is for MS software, and only selected applications at that. To install software in Ubuntu I just use a repositry and use the "Add Programs" menu. Every single program I've installed is now managed and updated by Ubuntu. My last update patched 40+ programs, in a single operation, without a reboot.
So, under Ubuntu:
- Installing programs means ticking one box and pressing ok
- Patching all programs means clicking ok when the update program asks to run
- Uninstalling programs means unticking one box and pressing ok
And all of this without reboots.
I'm sorry, I'm a huge fan of windows, but Ubuntu amazed me the first time I used it. There is simply no comparison between this and windows in terms of ease of use, and that's only going to improve. Plus the damn thing's more secure anyway. I'm not running firewall or AV software on my linux box, it simply doesn't need it.
Myx
1. Microsoft pushes Dell into selling new systems with no OS in order to meet customer preference.
2. Customers find old Dell OEM XP ISOs on Usenet.
3. ???
4. Profit! (But not for Microsoft.)
Give OS X & Linux a REAL boost. Can you say semi-suicidal sales strategy fast?
To say I am astonished is putting it mildly.
I now think I was wrong to have stated previously that Bill Gates & Steve Ballmer are too removed from the average PC user and the things he has had to put up with in the past when users were forced to upgrade and then put up with all the headaches.
Bill & Steve obviously only talk to each other, with no input from the real world average PC user and the firms that employ them.
The consequence of FORCING upgrades is going to be a big negative on Microsoft in so many ways.
One high end program I use simply can not be "VISTA Ready" by year end. I have been through this and it takes 4-5 updates once the product gets its first release and that takes 6-8 months minimum. Some companies because of training, productivity and security issues, simply will NOT allow a premature adoption of new software for fear of damaging their production systems & quality systems.
Apple is counting the days until Microsoft stops shipping OEM XP. For that will be a time when millions of fence-sitters will finally take the OS X plunge. Just a prediction...4th quarter Mac sales will be insane.
Time to stock up on copies of XP Pro for future use, as I really have little to no desire to put Vista on my machine. Maybe I'll finally switch to OSX when they kill the XP support lifecycle.
-Kinsey
Automatic is easy. I had by Gentoo box setup for automatic with a cron script (once a week), dont do that anymore tho, as i perfer to keep track of whats being installed. But in the end, if the "updates" are just that, and not totally new versions, then its quite easy to do with a cron script, if its not just updates, well, then you might screw yourself over when the look of a application changes (as has been done with GIMP several times). On the other hand, most users would just go "update", blinding doing what the automatic script would have done, so its basically 50/50.
The battle for the 64-bit OS will be decided by 2008.
http://catb.org/~esr/writings/world-domination/wor ld-domination-201.html
People should not read too much into this. To quote Gartner,
r ief.mspx). Users buying PCs preloaded with
s ta_oem_downgrade_rights_w_145950.pdf
"On 17 January 2007, Microsoft published a bulletin outlining downgrade rights for Windows Vista
original equipment manufacturer (OEM) editions (see the Downgrade Rights Chart at
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/resources/volb
OEM versions of Windows Vista Business or Windows Vista Ultimate may downgrade their PCs
to Windows XP Professional only."
Check out the full Gartner report here: http://www.gartner.com/resources/145900/145950/vi
This should suffice for 90% of the downgrade requests. Any more esoteric reasons can probably be handled on a case by case basis with Microsoft's Customer Support. The only big change with downgrade rights is that Vista will not allow you to downgrade to anything below XP, i.e Windows 2000.
I hate to say it, but this is 100% dead on. I would love to see more OS software in my enterprise, but does anyone have a clue as to what it costs to change out over 10,000 desktops? Not to mention training for all the support folks? Let's not even talk about interop with our customers. Nightmare, pure nightmare.
I dont know....but I just got my linux kernel updated on my Ubuntu...Was that a virus ------------- 100rabh runs away in horror????....no in joy
"Eventually, as it always happens, there will be bug releases and new drivers for Windows Vista. Upgrading to them is as easily as doing "Windows Update." Linux (and BSD) distros will never be this easily patched due to the very nature of being open source."
-1 Ignorant
Seriously!
We've got a Windows server her, which is quite the hassle to keep up to date (windows + several programs)
There are also two servers here running VMWare with 4 virtual machines with Ubuntu 6.10 Server, which is a breeze to keep up to date.
This is an issue, but it's not a Microsoft issue. Other applications can hook into the Windows Update architecture (though I'm not entirely sure of the details of such). Much the same way as you can hook Office into it, currently.
updating ANYTHING usually sucks ass.
you guys could argue this back and forth until you're blue in the face, and you know what...
updating shit will still suck.
so, shut up.
1. Buying a ton of XP licenses before year's end.
2. Offering them on EBay by 1.1.2008
3. Profit!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Err, provided of course, you commit yourself to only ever using that distro's package management system of choice, right?
If I never see another RPM failed dependency due to having had to compile a lib from .tgz, I'll be happy.
I quote this from someone who works for Microsoft "The WOW needs to end!!!" The greatest windows quote evar.
Which is why there are so many unpatched Windows computers around.
Oh wait you were trying to be pro-Windows werent you? Oops.
In 12 months time, the only XP you can get will be pirated copies.
That means if you want to stick to Windows on your new PC, you will ned to invest in Vista.... at a steep increase in hardware, software cost and maintenance cost (driver issues, bug fixes etc)
The Home segment will need connectivity to lots of 2-yr old peripherals... and they will be pissed that neither Vista supports their peripherals, NOR the hardware vendor is keen to write certified drivers for Vista.... this will push hardware makers to go the way of open source drivers, and supporting Linux. Microsoft will be too much of a moving target since old drivers and hacks will no longer work with Vista. Result: Hardware and peripheral makers switch to Linux, and take home users with them.
The 'build-your-own' segment of PC makers will suffer heavily, since Vista seems specifically designed to discourage this market, and promote large OEMs like Dell and HP. The stability of Vista on custom-built PCs seems much degraded than big-brand PCs of inferior specs.
Result: Build-your-own PC makers move to Linux, and start adding value to their offerings instead of just loading OEM Vista.
When it comes to corporate PCs, there are basically two categories:
1. Those who have Corporate licenses for a fixed no. of desktops will stick to XP or 2000 or even NT 4.0.... (my nephew in Bangalore is migrating server farms of Shell from NT4 to Win2K... he's having fun managing those mailboxes and migration to Active Directory!). Result: Vista on the corporate desktop will have to wait a loooong time for big corporates with site licenses.
2. Corporates without site licenses will be faced with a choice: Either buy new PCs with Vista, forking out large sums for jumbo hardware and bloated software...
OR
Migrate the desktop to Linux.
Corporate sysadmins have been notoriously lazy for a decade and more... (I know, I was one until recently). Sysadmin usually meant applying patches and Service Packs, blindly installing the latest OSes from MS, firewalls and IDS etc. Until now, sysadmin seldom got involved in IT planning, Standardising on formats, protocols, identity management, entitlement, provisioning etc.
With Vista, the price for this laziness is being increased steeply - the Vista desktop PC is going to be twice as epensive as the XP equivlent, and mgmnt is going to frown at incompetent sysadmins who never planned for migrating away from Windows and Office lock-ins. Even if the desktop gets Vista by default from the OEM, the servers and apps are still going to be on old versions of Windows or Linux servers for a long time to come. Maintaining support requests from new Vista users is going to be a huge new headache for lethargic sysadmins. Result: New hardware gets Vista; old hardware remains on existing Windows versions.
The few sysadmins who can see what's coming are alredy planning to do away with Desktop apps and standardise on Web apps that work with non-IE browsers on non-Windows OSes AS WELL AS existing Windows boxes with IE. This is what we're doing at our firm - except for some CAD software and call-centre software, all other desktops are shifting to web-based apps in this year. What if the CAD appln does not run on Vista? What if IBM doesn't release a Vista-compatible client by this year? We don't have control over those... but the next year should be interesting. Vista appears to be an attempt to arm-twist the entire spectrum of the IT ecosystem into the Microsoft-way. And that is why it is doomed to fail spectacularly.
Unlike previous versions, Vista will mean changing EVERY aspect of current IT functioning. Which is why it is a definite victory for Linux and Free Software, because at last, it will be more easier on the Desktop than adaoting to Vista.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
I am not a fan of Vista, and personally, I believe that MS' main reasoning behind this is that they want to hasten the locking-in of content to an MS operating system. That being said, the one good thing that comes out of this, from the perspective of a consumer, is that there will be a time-line Microsoft must meet to work the major bugs out of Vista. For all their problems, the marketing department at Microsoft isn't full of idiots. They know that Dell is beginning to offer Linux (maybe/hopefully) and if they aren't offering a well developed, stable OS (a role currently only being filled by XP), they will start to lose market share at an increased rate. Seeing this, MS will likely focus more and more on stabilizing Vista by the end of the year, which will benefit people who *must* buy Vista (for whatever reason) and those people who have already bought Vista, as they will have access to updates.
By the end of the year, I don't see XP as being real in demand for new computers. Remember we are talking OEM copies, so this is for new systems only. Well, by the end of the year I imagine that the two major complaints with Vista (driver and app support) will be pretty well cleared up. It's the same deal with every major Windows change. It takes several months for the software/hardware vendors to get their stuff working right on the new OS, then it is smooth sailing.
So, really, I don't think it is unreasonable to say that there won't be much demand for XP on new systems come 2008, or much need for it. That's real different from forcing an upgrade. It isn't saying that you can't still buy XP retail or volume or anything, or that they'll cut support for it (that'll be ongoing for a long time) just that if you buy new hardware, and ti has Windows installed, it'll be Vista. Same basic deal with any of the past Windows transitions.
If this was November, I'd be calling it stupid. However it's April, that's plenty of time that things should be pretty good. Already the driver situation is improved to the point that most things work well on Vista. Apps still need fixing, but not all that many. At work my compatibility testing shows it at about 90% of our apps compatible with no problems, 95-98% compatible with minor tweaks and just a few that flat out won't work. I'm betting by 2008 they'll all be working.
Actually I choose it because it increases my productivity drastically.
hm thats never happened with me on Ubuntu. Then again, when I used Suse, I had all kind of troubles with RPMs. Thats why I switched :)
Windows has released in cycles (starting with 98): OK, bad, OK, bad, OK...
3.1: OK
95: OK
98: BAD
98se: MEH
ME: BAD
XP: OK
Vista: BAD (or MEH)
Yes, it's not a very objective rating system.
In earnest, I think Vista is the predecessor to an improved operating system to be. I use Windows ME as the primary example (and, sadly, was subjected to it as well). By the time everyone had purchased (forced or volunteered), had become familiar with ME, and realized it was unstable, XP emerged and won the hearts of many because it was a god-send compared to ME.
I suspect (without solid support mind you all), that this trend might be a ploy. Just some food for thought.
(Side note: I use and prefer Unix/Linux & all programs included in the ports/portage/rpm are upgradable in one shot (unless you get dependency/blocking/masking issues))
--
CW
Yep that's right no way to get XP to INSTALL ;-(
Linux unable to boot or recognie newest hardware either
Blue screen of death
XP OEM CD BSOD
Pre-installed Hard Disk BSOD
NO ATA HD
NO ATA DVD/CD
SATA Only HD DVD CD etc
No possible help from Computer OEM
Newegg sells "system builder" licenses of Vista. As far as I can tell it's for hobbyists and small shops who used to buy the OEM license. It's quite cheap, no box, etc.
How can that be? I'm honestly curious - how does linux improve your productivity? What, are you still running Linux on a 386 laptop and only Linux will run at a decent speed? Or do you do significant scientific calculations?
Horns are really just a broken halo.
I'm just surprised that you weren't moderated into oblivion as -1 Troll/Flamebait. :)
Really? I can hook into the Windows Update Services and Windows Update Agent? Where? All I can find on MSDN is ability to check for windows updates and such. All programs that are updated with WUA are MS applications like Office or Visual Studio.
Where is the API to hook into the Windows Update to check for my own updates??
The trick is the way you answer. The first dialog asks if you want to reboot now or later. Don't answer. It'll then not bug you to reboot and you won't risk an auto reboot.
jh
the real issue is when XP leaves mainstream/extended support
you can stock pile all the damn OEM XP licenses you want they aren't going to do you a fucking bit of good when m$ stops supporting XP.
personally I haven't found vista to be a that bad... but I've not been using it cause of the performance hit vs. XP on my PC.
actually I am happy to see you, however that is in fact a banana in my pocket.
Argh, those stupid reminders that you need to restart. I updated my Windows XP yesterday, and when the update was complete, I told it that I will reboot later and went to play a little Supreme Commander. Every 10-15 minutes, it minimized the game to ask me if I would want to reboot now. After clicking "later" a few times, I just left it open so that it wouldn't interrupt me again.
For the Fedora users:
yum -y update
For Windows Users
Run Windows Update
Do you want to reboot now?
You: Heck, no I am doing some important work Later...
Do you want to reboot now?
You: What the hell
Do you want to reboot now? * clicking on yes on the new popup* Oops I'm away from my desk for five minutes.
Come back. WHere's all my stuff! You: NOOOOOO !
Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
Well, It's a sure-fire way to be able to boast about your vista sales by the end of the year.
CEO's want instant gratification, instead of keeping the customers happy.
B.
Every experiment which ends in a big bang is a good experiment.
That's about all one could ever say in favor of a Microsoft product. They will always asymptotically approach useability.
That's true if you consider "dumb" usable. The trend I've noticed is less control, less flexibility, fewer 3rd party vendors (aka choice) and more annoyance and auto-wrong features. Security and stability have remained poor and have trended down.
They have pulled out the stops in their breakage of XP though. Today I watched someone try to rebuild an XP laptop. He'd done it manytimes before because someone stuck him with admin responsibility for 15 of them. The process had changed on him this time and it failed. The usual tedious process of manually downloading "updates" fell apart and the automatic process took over and could not be stopped. A couple hours later, I stuck my head in to see how it was going and he was reading a M$ support page about "silent failures". Better him than me.
This "upgrade" cycle has the feeling 95 to 98 did but worse. Eerything fell apart at once and the answer was to buy a new one. This time the "new one" is a computer with about 4 times the hardware. BadVista's got the scoop on this one, Vista - Arrogance & Stupidity, "No sane person wants Vista, so Microsoft is making sure they have no choice."
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
But changing those 10,000 desktops to Windows Vista(TM) will cost nothing? By magic?
c++;
2K Pro For The Win.
Did you consider just sticking with that, waiting for Microsoft to send their BSA goons round, and then saying "Sure, we'll happily pay you the XP (or Vista) OEM costs, but we are. Not. Going. To. Stop. Using. 2K Pro."?
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
net stop wuauserv
This does stop the Automatic Updates service and thus gets rid of the dialog. Then it's your responsibility to remember that your system does require a restart.
In XP Pro, you can disable this dialog via a group policy, try googling for the exact value.
I find that Linux improves my productivity; it runs faster - not a lot faster, but enough to be noticeable. Having multiple virtual desktops comes in handy. Having things like iso burning built into the OS saves a few minutes here and there. I know I can open just about any file thrown at me with something - even the most proprietary documents succumb to one of my office programs - whereas on Windows I have to have third party programs to open archives. It handles accents much more nicely. I don't get "time to restart" prompts in the middle of working... A lot of it is also familiarity, of course, but once you're used to the idiosyncrasies, not having to worry about security or stability save you more time than you'd expect - or at least more time than I expected.
Of course, not being distracted by games helps too!
Art Makers Just an excuse to show photos of naked women !!
I don't see this as a huge problem. The end of the year is still a good 7 months away, and I think that will be long enough to sort out most of the driver and performance issues associated with Vista. Joe User will survive.
Keep in mind that we're talking about new systems here, not upgrades. I'd be astonished if hardware didn't "catch up" to Vista's comfortable requirements within the next few months, especially since OEMs now know that they really don't have any other choice.
All the doom-sayers seem to be forgetting what it was like when XP was introduced. :) Just because the smarter of us don't use it (either because we're cautious late adopters or don't use windows at all) doesn't mean that it's going to be a nightmare for everyone.
One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces.
At this level, the relationship between MS and the manufacturer should be no different to, say, the car industry where Company A manufactures a component to go into Company B's car engines.
Windows XP is just a component, albeit a necessary one to a lot of people, of laptops and pre-built desktops, it's up to the builders to take Microsoft to task and demand for XP to continue for OEM.
MS have been allowed to get far too big for their boots over the years, they need to be knocked down to size.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
you should respond to the windows update just the way you respond to your gf.
I used to do that in OSX. Leave Software Update sitting at the "reboot" stage for weeks at a time. At least windows offers a "reboot later" option.
How long did it take for you to install extra patches, etc to get these features? What distro gives you all this "out of the box" with out a lot of fiddling? Can anyone else back this gentleman's claims? I use Linux daily for my *servers* and I'm getting *this* close to change my crappy XP machine to Linux....
Horns are really just a broken halo.
why is it that when ever MS EOL's a product there's mass outrage and critisism from OSS supporters, touting it as yet another reason OSS is better, yet the same people will try defend the VERY short EOL on OSS products sighting man power issues? pot calling the kettle black considering ms would have been supporting win XP for 7 years once this dead line comes up, compared to the pathetic 1 - 2 years support most OSS projects offer. MS dispite being a huge corperation do have a limit to the man power they can expend on a product, just like a OSS project. i would submit to all you critics that you applude MS for supporting it's OS's as long as they do, they could certainly be much more aggresive in EOl'ing their software if they choose to.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
I used Ubuntu for about half a year. Most of what you say is true. But my main gripe with Ubuntu is that it's far from heaven when it comes to installing software. Sure, patches install very easily. But there are still plenty of programs which require you to go to the command prompt, and use either lengthy tutorials or memorize things I shouldn't be required to memorize. FFS it takes a lengthy tutorial to install Flash!
And for the record I'm from the generation who used DOS, 4DOS, DRDOS et al, so I'm not exactly afraid of the command prompt. It's just that a well-designed GUI works. And for the vast majority of people using the command prompt is a deal breaker. It was for me. Oh, and the lack of Photoshop, color management and games. (Don't get me started on how tough it was to get Wolfenstein to work in Ubuntu.)
This afternoon I'm dropping off my notebook at work to have it upgraded from Windows 2000 to XP.
Seeing as Microsoft have central control over their product activations, how is the activation process going to work when it's reached the end of its product cycle or if Microsoft decide not to allow new activations of XP, only re-activate licenses that have been activated at least once in the past.
They kind of have access to a big red button which can potentially cripple XP installs past a certain date. Maybe they'll introduce a patch for XP which removes the product activation past a certain date because they won't care anymore about new installations?
Task Mangler
some issues still remains with Vista
Some ?!?! Vista is easily the most godawful piece of crap to ever roll out of Redmond, just when I thought I'd seen it all. If this doesn't drive people to alternatives it is an admission that they've become complete sheep (but we knew that).
It really is a pile of rubbish with a pretty ribbon (Aero) around it. There is more stability in a fresh jelly, and it's incompatible with world+dog. If you have a lot of legacy kit that uses Active-X you can't even use it in IE6 if it's unsigned (at least, I have seen no way to bypass it) so MS is again taking hardware decisions for a company, the security is designed to get in your way rather than help (even Admin has to wade through multiple clickies to get something done) and on top of that it's still as insecure as it was before - watch how often it has already been patched.
Only now there are less products available that can protect you (oh, and I have yet to see the use of Windows Defender).
The solution is IMHO easy:
Set up a small XP system with the bare essentials for what you need in Windows, then virtualise it. Zap the box, install Linux (any distro) on it and run Windows as a VM only. Safer, easier to protect and much more stable than Vista will ever e, but with significantly less draw on resources. And if Aero is what you like, install Beryl. It's been doing the Aero interface for months..
MS sells hope. Hope that bugs will eventually be solved. However, logically that will never happen, ever.
Who would buy the upgrades?
Insert
> I'm not running firewall or AV software on my linux box, it simply doesn't need it.
You are running a firewall, actually. There's one built into the kernel - iptables. And it's set to block all unsolicited incoming requests by default in Ubuntu (IIRC, it's been a while since I installed an Ubuntu box).
If you want to configure it, I recommend using a GUI frontend like Firestarter.
Of course MS is pulling XP. Anyone surprised? They need Vista to be a success, even a moderate one. They can't allow Vista to fail like ME did.
While they still dominate the market, it's not an unchallenged dominance anymore. A failure the size of Vista would mean considerable market share gains for Linux, OSX and maybe even other/new competitors over the next 3-5 years while they struggle to get a new windos out. By the time they're ready to release it, the market could've moved elsewhere.
So they're going to force Vista on us, figuring that like all windos versions prior, once we have no other choice, we'll accept it and consider all its shortcomings and problems as a "that's just how computers are" thing.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Trying to force people to move to a new OS that uses 2+ GIGABYTES of RAM at minimum is a bit much in my book! I'd rather spend that money to buy an army of chinese and indian coders to make me whatever changes I want in Debian. You know you can buy somebody to code for a month for just $50 and it's amazing what they can accomplish when they have all the source code and documentation available and anybody can do it, not just one gigantic company. It's trivial for me to get people to compete for the work that I can give them and hire only the best. Heck I can afford to hire 10 indian coders to work for a month for the price of Windows.
And why do you have to compile a lib from a .tgz? You want a newer version than is available as an RPM? Use the source RPM, modify it slightly to use the new version of the source, and build an RPM from it. It isn't harder than building and installing the software from the .tgz, and you also benefit from having the package in your RPM database.
so it goes
Easy. I work a lot better in *NIX env. I love when I can solve my problems with bit of magic here and there. I can use same system on different HW platforms (I owe PPC/x86 computers). Linux "scales" to my needs. I can throw Openbox with set of tools on my P2/400 laptop with GPRS (very handy when you travell -- you don't have to be afraid it will get stolen or b0rken ;-) and it will still work as similar as it can to my high-end machine.
I like dev-tools on *NIX side better. I like to solve problems with Ruby hacks.
This is, of course, personal taste. But I hope it ansfer your question. :-)
Rocksteady, are you ready to ska?
Lots of comments here so I'll make 1 big reply.
I'm speaking from experience - over 10 years in I.T. This is how real world works. More examples:
Part of the regulations in the financial sector is to secure all data, including laptops. That means Whole Disk Encryption. To manage an entire corporate structure requires an enterprise solution. Utimaco and PGP provide such a solution - for Windows XP & soon Vista. It's certified, tested, and secure. In fact, the US gov has an RFP out to various vendors for WDE - all for Windows solutions.
All the big financial trading software runs on Windows: Schwab's CyberTrader, TradeStation, Townsend Analytics, E-Signal, etc., etc., etc. Traders are not going to risk their $$$ trying to use Windows emulators under Linux "just because they like Linux." No, they like $$$, are practical, and use the best tool for the job. Further, all of the helpdesks at the firms know that 99.9% of their customers use Microsoft. Even if they got off of Windows, they would still need to support their customer base. That is, the mass of people who buy Dells which have Winfows pre-installed.
Ubuntu has been out for how long? 5 years? A CEO of an S&P 500, S&P MidCap, S&P SmallCap, etc. corporation is not going to risk his publicly traded corporation's entire infrastructure (the "heart" of the communications between all co-workers) to a 5 year old company (is Ubuntu even a corporation?) that also has many, many competitors. There is only 1 vendor for Windows: Microsoft. There are a ton of vendors for Linux.
Further, do you know the nightmare it will take to switch over thousands of employees? Employees aren't just sitting around - they are working a minimum 40 hours a week. There would be productivity loss, lots of retraining, lots of hardware expenses (have to duplicate workstations so users can migrate from their Windows PC to their Linux PC), etc. No VP or Product Manager or shareholders will endure that kind of disruption. And for what? To move from an established DOW 30 corporation to a 5 year old one-of-many Linux distros?
As you mature in your career job, you realize that there is so much more to life than your PC. You have a girlfriend, wife, baby, young children, overtime, etc. that now take up a significant (and nearly all) of your time. Even if you were a geek growing up (I was), there is no time to dork around with Linux trying to get this new piece of hardware/software to work with this kernel and this distro. My friends only have a couple of hours on a Friday to spend for themselves. The rest of the time is with the kids (helping w/ homework, etc.) or the wife (going out to dinner, married life). With Windows, it truly is Plug-And-Play. Every piece of hardware that I've bought from Bluetooth devices to HDTV video cards to a bunch of different USB devices (GPS, storage, etc.) just works. I plug it in, install the Windows drivers that came on the CD, and I'm done. At the bare minimum for Linux, I'd have to hope there was a Linux driver, find it, install it, etc. That takes precious time which a lot of people don't have.
I think those that modded me down as Troll/Flamebait are high school / college kids or young adults barely into the workforce. Sorry, but this is the real world. You have to think like a CEO. You have to think like those above you if you want to learn from them and advance up the corporate ladder. Starting out at a job and telling everyone that you like Linux so much and want your company to move to Linux will only show how green and inexperienced you are. Once you move up to department manager you can start seeing the bigger picture. Once you move up to regional manager and oversee at least a few hundred employees you will see the big picture.
The only force that can bring down Microsoft from desktop domination is a combination of Microsoft screwing up horribly AND a truly viable alternate solution being available to take advantage. The only one I can think of is Apple - another big, established publicly traded corporation.
In Amerika you are held hostage by your OS vendor.
Some days it's just not worth
chewing through my restraints.
Your comment about updates shows that you perhaps haven't used a modern Linux distro (perhaps in at least 7 or 8 years). My CentOS desktop Linux system - I just click on the update icon in the upper right, and ... well, it updates. It's not like Windows Update either which just updates Windows, it also updates Firefox, OpenOffice and all the other non-OS programs from just one or two button clicks. It's actually far easier than Windows Update.
I do agree with you that Linux isn't going to appear on the desktop in large numbers any time soon. Even if Linux was provably twice as good as Windows, it still wouldn't pick up more than a couple of percent market share - and it won't do, because major manufacturers of PCs just pre-install Windows.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
I am suffering this nonsense right now, and the dialog box won't go behind other windows - I have shoved it almost off the screen to get it out of the way (and are you absolutely sure I won't come back after lunch to find my PC has decided enough is enough and rebooted itself?)
The trouble being that techies willing to help you with Linux are much harder for the Mr and Mrs A. Verage-Joe to get hold of than a Windows helper. I myself always used to be one of those techies with Windows but even I had to find someone one level up on the geek hierarchy from myself when it came to installing/setting up Ubuntu on my desktop. This of course does result in a bit of a chicken or egg situation with the knowledge only appearing at a lower level of the pyramid as a result of increased market share/exposure to the system and vice versa.
Because my computer works.
Inspired by the article about that German guy who got the price of windows refunded to him, I called Dell to see if at the very least I could get a swap to WinXp Pro instead of Vista Home Premium.
I then spent an hour and a half on the phone with an incompetent sales woman who not only wasted my time, but attempted to pressure me into buying shit I didn't want, but furthermore still screwed up my quote, and in the end did not get my business. (Long story, not really the time or place for it)
Point being;
The only reason I even called and spoke to someone on the phone was to see if I could do the swap, and not have Vista on my system.
I assured this woman that I was not only in the IT industry, but knew very contrary to what she said about Vista being a good OS, that it sucked, I was not willing to use it, and that unless they would still warranty my hardware after a reformat I would not be buying from them.
The only computers they seem to offer XP on are high end models.
You're really better off just ordering a vista system, reinstalling XP over it, and keeping your install CDs for when they fix their crappy OS so it actually works.
Now to just sit back and wait a few weeks for my new computer to arrive. Wipe Vista. Reinstall XP Pro Lite.
Maybe a brand new computer with a Intel ® Core(TM)2 Duo Processor 2.13GHz, 1066 FSB and 2gb of RAM can freaking run Oblivion...
In the end, the only thing that matters is how much fun you had.
FFS it takes a lengthy tutorial to install Flash!
1) Open apt, add (paste in) one line for the seveas repository.
2) Click reload.
3) Check the box for "flashplugin-nonfree"
4) Click OK
455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
My XP workstation, a Dell 9100 has had 6-sigma level uptime, not data loss, etc for almost 2 years. Then again, I'm a professional. :)
Horns are really just a broken halo.
There's already a proven path. Windows 3.1 -> NT 4.0 -> W2K -> XP -> Vista. Corporations and vendors already know from experience how much $$$ and time it will take. With Linux, it's a big ??? and no big, publicly traded corporation is going to risk their shareholders' value and wrath to experiment with moving from XP to Linux.
Was Microsofts older versions of Windows phased out this fast too? Yes, I'd think so, and no, I don't think they were. Or at least MS did not make such a strong point of it so early. But most of the earlier upgrade situations were a lot easier for the customer, and in most cases a real progress. With Vista, it's different.
New Windows versions always used to demand more computing power than their predecessors, but there never was as massive an increase in demands as with Vista compared to XP. New Windows versions always used to lay out their system applications, settings pages and management options less clearly than their predecessors, but they never came as badly arranged as within Vista. And I won't even start to talk about Vista's excessive confirmation dialogs.
I guess that most people's applications have a lot less demand for computing power than is needed just to run Vista, and that in many cases their applications will perform worse under Vista than they would under XP. And I didn't even say 'compatibility issues' yet.
The problem is, in many cases there are always a few important ones under the applications people are using regularly, for which there do not exist real alternatives under alternative operating systems. Right, I agree that probably a lot of people will think even more intensely about switching, but sad as it is, many will still come to the conclusion that they have to bite the bullet and continue to have their operating system imposed on them by the monopolist, as long as real-world application support does not get even better for alternative operating systems than it already is.
The same goes for Ubuntu Linux.
I'm playing with it on and off (not being a serious user yet), and I found updating as easy as using Windows Update.
Start the Synaptic package manager, reload the packet information and have it apply the available updates. Maybe two or three clicks more than Windows Update, but easily figured out.
And it has the advantage of covering various applications too, even third-party ones that are not part of the distribution.
C - the footgun of programming languages
With all due respect.... I use Linux because it's easy to use AND it's free as a bonus.
And my Fedora tells me every time I log in what updates are available. If I so choose It is just one click away to update all installed software on the box.
My 5 year old uses Linux on the kids 'puter and it's easy....
Ever tried to change settings on a Windows system? 542 clicks later you find the right dialog....
I don't think Microsoft are interested in you - they are interested in the Microsoft tax which goes along with every new PC sold - and the power and control they have by owning a vast majority of all the desktops on the planet (including the browser).
It's funny, Windows gets a lot of flack for this, but OS X sure made me reboot after updating Quicktime.
Can anyone else back this gentleman's claims?
Yes, I can. I am forced to use Windows XP at work because the domain is controlled with software that is windows only. Getting home to do some work on my laptop with FC6 is a dream.
I use Linux daily for my *servers* and I'm getting *this* close to change my crappy XP machine to Linux....
I say go for it. There will be a few moments in the early stages where you may get a little frustrated ("Ahhh I can do this soooo much easier in Windows"), and you may have to do a small amount of digging to play some of the proprietry media formats. However, once it all settles down, you will certainly notice a big difference. I just find my Linux machine so much more cohesive. If I do have an application lock up, I use xkill, click on it and 'bang' it's gone. None of this... "End Now"....."End Now"......"End Now" crap.
I could go on....
There is a workaround on OS X.
When it brings up the dialog to have you reboot, you can hold Option and right click on the software update icon in the dock and choose Force Quit to postpone the reboot to a later time.
It's a Unix system - I know this.
That is not true for a moment for me. I've installed Linux for myself and a few friends that got new computers. Wireless, 3D, all that jazz worked out of the box. Not even close for Windows.
Alternatively you could just open up the policy editor and go to the windows components area for updates and then disable reminders or just have them be a few hours apart instead of a few minutes.
Just because XP is not going to be sold anymore does not mean that XP support is ending, or that everyone has to suddenly change to Vista.
Le français vous intéresse?
You are also obviously lying. :) Thanks for playing and have a nice day.
(Hint: it's the uptime statement that got you - it's just not possible on Window for a variety of reasons I will not take the time to explain to a troll such as yourself. And anyway, what in hell's name is a 6-sigma level uptime? Oh, right, it's what Windows fanboys use when they know they've lost already... You, sir, are a waste of everyone's time. Please stop breathing, others can use the air for better purposes.)
"With respect I submit that Windows is easier to use than Linux for even advanced Linux users."
This is rubbish. The easiest system to use is the one you are used to.
Windows is well nigh impossible to use because the focus doesn't follow the mouse. You put the mouse over a window, start typing and then discover you are typing in the wrong window.
I was using my partners Mac at the weekend and I couldn't work out how to browse to an application when the "open with" dialog appeared. She had to show me where to click to find the relevant directory
I'd say I was in the "advanced linux users" category. I've built my own bootable CD that runs in 16Mb (might run in less but I've never tried it on a machine with less memory) and can be used to do a remote install - I post the disk to someone, they put it in and let it boot, I then login and can install Debian. Alternatively, they can boot from the CD and then I can diagnose problems where a machine won't boot. I'm not even sure this CAN be done with Windows or OSX however experienced the user is.
Fortunately for me where I have to use Windows on the desktop at work, we have a supported application that allows me to have the focus under the mouse. Funnily enough, whenever anybody tries to show me anything on my machine they have the same problems I have when I try to show them something on their machine - typing keeps going to the wrong window. While it's a rare setup there are a few other people who have their desktop set up the same way I do with the focus under the mouse.
(One of the things I find really frustrating about the MS-windows model is that you can't have the window with the focus (mostly) underneath another window. I'd suspect the majority of Windows users aren't even aware that they can't do this and their automatic reaction on hearing that I want to be able to do it is "why? I don't see the need therefore it isn't a restriction that makes Windows hard to use." But sometime I do have a window covering almost the entire screen that I'm reading from and typing into another window that is underneath it.)
Tim.
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.
Nope, don't think you have it there.
I used to be a HP-UX admin, before turning to the darkside and becoming a MCSE. Throw in some heavy OS/2 usage. I'm pretty darn familiar with both.
The average Linux user at this point has already gotten VMware running on their system, so has windows as a application on demand, for use in gaming.
Openoffice is as easy to use as MSOffice, which covers most corporate computer use. Thats because the average Linux user is almost certainly more computer literate and smarter in general; It is sort of like saying the average college student is smarter and better able to deal with a college level class than the average human.
Now to a person who didn't automatically go to linux, or "The Average Computer User", they might be able to run a Knoppix distro without problems, but they aren't going to be able to configure their network if it didn't autoconfig, figure out how to make their hard drives writeable, or even DREAM about running GTA4 in a WINE or VMware shell; it just isn't going to happen, because they don't want to spend the time to learn how to do it; it isn't worth it to them.
So, they are going to stay windows users. When they can't run a new game or application because Microsoft has coded in some bullshit check in the installer that refuses to install on anything but the latest Vista Ultimate Integrated Spyware and Malware edition, they will just do without, or buy a new computer that comes with it installed. In other words, they are just screwed. No help for it.
I'm sticking with Win2k until they make it illegal to run it, or until I can't run my hardware with it; I can feel the end coming, as some of the graphics apps I work with are coming out with 64-bit versions, and MS killed their 64-bit Win2k patch that they developed to boost XP-64 sales; when the majority of the stuff I use has a stable 64-bit edition, I'll be forced to go to XP Pro 64.
But I won't run Vista. period. I have confidence by the time a piece of hardware comes out that Win2k / XP-64 won't run on, and is required to run an application I use properly, either there will be a working Linux version, Or I'll be dead. I MIGHT even consider getting a Mac... .
Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
Take the plunge. Then, when something irritates you about your new OS, google for the solution. On the rare occassion that someone hasn't already scratched that particular itch, complain publicly and loudly. Hound the developers. As a last resort, diss it on slashdot. You're guaranteed to get "duh, just do blah blah blah and it works, moron". It's not a perfect system but it keeps improving.
The first week or two you'll be wrestling with major annoyances of the OS. The next few months you'll make the occassional tweak. Then it's smooth sailing. Before too long you will have scratched every itch and will barely even notice the OS any more. Once you've got it working the way you want it, it just keeps on working.
This advice is missing from those "I tried linux for a week and it sucked" reviews.
Software patents delenda est.
Look at it this way. The end is nigh for XP. Apple is dying. *BSD is dead. Linux is pretty much all that is left!
Yet another IT person stuck in their ways. Things change. I work with z/OS, Unix, OpenVMS, and Windows. Currently, there isn't anything I do on Windows desktop at work that I can't do on Linux. A lot of employees use mail, browser, office applications and maybe another application(which might have a version for Unix).
You have an over-inflated ego for an admin of an OS created in a garage. Not a flame, just pointing out that things can change over the years. Look at where MS is now.
Never said it did, just that the argument of windows being easier to patch is void.
:D
Yes, there's still a lot of software that's windows only, I won't argue with you on that. That's why my main PC is an XP box. However linux is more than good enough for a lot of people now, I'm using it for my 2nd pc because it does everything I need and it's easier to maintain.
And in another year or two I expect linux will be able to run XP software. Emulation is huge now, and hardware support for it is just around the corner. I don't even think it'll be long before you can even run games at near native speed in an emulated XP environment. And once that happens linux will really take off. All the benefits of an open platform, the security of linux, but with all the windows software available... can't wait
The reason MS are doing this is because they are their own biggest competitor. Over the last 5 years the wintel world has been left with what is in some ways a rather privileged positon. As MS hadn't been able to bring vista to market until well after schedule, they'd been forced to support XP and keep it running nicely. Now, despite the malware pandemic that this situation has arguably allowed to flourish, this situation has had a number of benefits for PC users. The first and most noticable is that for the last few years PCs have seemed stonkingly fast. It's also created a market for stonkingly cheap PC's as components that amply meet home office/multimedia requirements which havn't been inflated by new versions of windows. The world has essentially got used to microsoft not playing it's little trick on it. Most usersare entirely happy with the current capability of their computers under XP. They see no need to upgrade. MS needs to create an environment where vista only software with enough appeal to drive software purchases (OEM or otherwise) is being created. If nobody wants to upgrade to vista and no-one will purchase it MS will be forced to support it and rely on other revenue streams (so that's office, then), and they really don't want to have to do that. They need to re-sell you the same product, to do the same thing ... over and over and over again.
What, early 2008, that's a year in the future.
More to the point, that's countless bugs, major flaws, critical exploits and 2 Vista servicepacks away. Nobody really liked XP when it started, only after SP1 it became bearable (and I switched after SP2).
And for the people that really care there are always versions to be found on P2P.
Nothing to see here, move along.
Extended support doesn't finish until 2014. Even so, XP won't suddenly cease working in 2014. I know people still running Windows 95, and support has long ended for that.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Other distros have similar utilities. My Ubuntu updates don't require rebooting the computer, though doing so is recommended. There is just no way that Windows Update is better than the update methodology used in Ubuntu.
Not true in Vista hen you click later the request is placed on a 10 minutes reminder, you can change the reminder length to 4 hours but it will still remind you. If you don't have any programs holding windows open (say an unsaed word document, or particular game) then it will just restart you machine when you leave it alone.
I like vista and was somewhat irratated by this new 'feature'
All these companies in the US and elsewhere that outsource their tech support to India and other places overseas are going to have to pay out the ass to retrain all their employees. I'm a computer repair tech and I've already run into people with new computers who have vista pre-installed, and have gone in circles for hours over the phone with people in India who have no idea how to help the end user navigate around the OS.
It's actually not new for Vista. XP also just places it on a timer, and when that runs out, shows the reminder again. And if you don't do anything and then go home from work, it auto-reboots. So XP share this behavior. Actually, the only thing Vista does is improve things a little, because it at least let you set the timer to 4 hours, which is far more than XP's 15 minutes or whatever it might be. (not configurable from an UI at least)
To resolve this auto-reboot behavior which is a very strange default, given it can cause dataloss, simply (in XP and Vista alike) set the Windows Update client to only auto-download updates, not install them. The problem with forced reboots after a while only happens if the updates have already been installed.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Defiantly the case, this all comes down to all the different levels of certification that Microsoft offers. It's very easy to get involved in such weekend training programs to get your MSCE Qual, local training institutes and corporations alike offer these courses left right and centre. Not only do they make it easier to be a Windows tech but compared to the RedHat certifications (just like the popularity of their operating system) they are much more streamline.
Just as the ease-of-use increases for Linux Desktop I see that being simply a trend issue, eventually (idealistically) this should change. For instance, GMH releases a new type of fuel injection system for the new model cars then all the mechanics supporting GMH have to upskill to keep with the trends, Doctors do this with medical techniques, and computers are no different, its simply an industry thing.
Say Dell was to sell Linux Desktop (which they say they are) their staff will have to upskill. Eventually it trickles down into the smaller and mid-scale business and eventually will be come as prominent as MSCE. The problem is Microsoft "thought" they were GMH, in fact they are simply a component of the car, in their own right the market is now seeing this for the 1st time and companies like Dell, etc have seen their power industry, this largely has to do with the fact Windows is doing badly in the retail market and only makes sales via their OEM distributors.
If it wasn't for this factor their stronghold on the market would of remained the same and they wouldn't be so harsh on restricting the support or distribution of OEM versions of XP (as the article suggests).
When MS stops supporting it, I'll stop getting all these insistent messages to download the latest security fixes which aren't, and can finally have a stable platform I can start to understand. This is a good thing.
XP will not go away. It will continue to exist on the machines of everyone who keeps it and CD ROMS that people don't throw away. Hell, 95 and 98 haven't gone away. I still have them on a couple old machines because some things I use insist on them. By now I can fix anything that might go wrong with them. Same will go for XP.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
Is this "story" a dup? Or just part of a normal 5-year cycle of whining?
3 4
Windows 2000 - Nine Months to Live
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/07/08/12362
Microsoft is trying to cram Vista down the consumers throats. And sales people are lying to consumers to sell desktops and laptops.
Linux is a good alternative but it also lacks severely in a GOOD user-friendly security setup. command-line is NOT by any definition user friendly.
You could say, Both Linux and Windows both have security issues.
\
I don't reboot into Windows often now. But when I do, I really need to get some work done. I always end up installing all the critical MSFT patches (except IE7 (my work site requires an activeX component that is incompatible with IE7) & that program that wants to see if I'm a thief).
The problem is the pestering for a reboot and the automatic reboot if I don't press a button within 2 minutes (or is it one minute?).
I leave my windows software doing a nice simple task (that usually takes ~15 minutes), walk off to take a break, and come back to my Ubuntu login screen. The first couple times did this I really thought I either had a hardware error or my rendering software had actually forced a reboot somehow.
I can't freakin' believe that an OS can force a mandatory reboot unless I answer a prompt within a set time period. Second of all, I can't believe that they haven't gotten enough complaints to patch it as of yet.
Why? If they really need a reboot to install their software, why can't they just download it when we tell them it's okay, and then just do the install at the next reboot? Do they really think there are windows desktops that don't get rebooted for 6 months or longer?
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
And don't forget that it does what we want it to, and in an expected manner.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Which is easier to get a working system? I can boot to Knoppix in a couple of minutes. With the Knoppix DVD I have not only OpenOffice, but LaTeX editors and other resources. I can boot to DSL or Puppy Linux even faster. Even with a HD install, Ubuntu still installs faster than any Windows version I've installed. Installing Ubuntu, Automatix, and a couple of Latex editors, and I'm largely done.
How many hours of searching the web for the freeware programs I want will it take to get Windows usable for my needs? Yes, Openoffice, Texmaker, Abiword, Google Earth, Adobe Reader, and media codecs/players are all available for Windows, but I have to go to those webpages, download the programs to a folder, and then install. I can install most of them via one apt-get line in Linux, or use Automatix for one-stop shopping. How is Windows easier?
People have very selective perception on this issue. Yes, Linux has stumped me. I had the bright idea of installing TrueCrypt and VMPlayer on Damn Small Linux, and could get neither to work at all. Fine. But they both work on Fedora, Suse, Debian, and Ubuntu, so I'll live with it. Windows often leaves people stuck as well, but no one considers that a show-stopper. I've even read hardware reviews in Maximum PC where they couldn't get a particular something or other to work at all, due to bad drivers or whatever, but no one said "Well, Windows just isn't ready for prime time!" People take the flaws of Windows with a grain of salt and move on, but if they have to type one command into a terminal, then Linux is "impossible for normal people." Spare me. Use it or don't, as you like, but the idea that Windows is easier than Linux is a very arbitrary and misleading statement.
"Apple's Steve jobs pulled a similar stupid stunt when he pulled the plug on the Power PC and all the development around it. We had built products around that too, but after having our products rendered useless by Apple's decision, (not once but twice, remember Nubus?) we'll never ever develop for Apple ever again."
You can now relate to all the business that owned Apple IIs for their computer needs and found out the Macintosh offered zero, zilch compatibility with Apple II software or hardware.
Because of source code. All of it is really designed to be done at source, you download the files in the source that have been edited courtesy of SVN, CVS, etc... and then use a makefile to only compile the changed bits.
Or, at least, that's what I gather.
I've always been annoyed by the lack of Synaptic's ability to install packages while other packages are being downloaded - tell me why that is.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
Yes, there is some software that just isn't the same as in Windows. Games will probably never reach parity.
As for video editing, it depends on what you buy on the Windows end. I bought 3 different video editing packages on MSWindows. Yes, they were not the high end $1K+ packages that professions use. They were all between $80 and $150, I'm pretty sure.
None of them ever worked right for me. Going to their forums showed lots of people that told you to download a particular version of the software (not the latest) and install particular patches (not all of them) and cross your fingers that audio & video sync and that your application doesn't crash while rendering the video.
Now I use Kino, and am quite happy with the results. If I want more, there's always Cinelerra (+/- CV), Diva, Jahshaka, Kdenlive, and Pitivi. So if the software is for home video editing, I think the Linux desktop is already there.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
How is "End of THE year" premature? Vista's been out 2 months, that's very different from 12 months. Besides this is normal practise. Not since ME (unfairly) has Windows been given such a bad rap.
I don't see why people should update their Windows computers either. Those zombie programs run fine on machines that haven't been upgraded for years, you don't need upgrades to run the latest software.
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
That remains to be seen. For example, a while after they stop selling it, MS will almost certainly discontinue supporting XP, just as they have Win95 and Win98. However, unlike Win95 and Win98, XP won't "just install" and work on a compatible machine, even though you have a legitimate disk. Your machine subsequently crashes, requiring a reinstall. The new install of XP promptly demands registration. MS informs you that registration for XP is no longer supported. Now what?
This is the potential killer problem with any software that requires you to interact with the manufacturer after you buy it, regardless if it is the entire OS or just some tiny application. If you don't get a registration code that will fully enable the product with the software, as well as the ability to back up both the code and the software, you've just taken a huge risk that your investment will suddenly, at an unpredictable point in the future, cease to be of value, and any data that depends upon it, lost.
You're better off with an OS that doesn't do this. At the present time, that'd probably be linux or OSX. Personally, I prefer OSX, but I've not looked at the newer linux distributions and the buzz for some of them (ubuntu in particular) is getting quite difficult to ignore. I think I'll go install that on my Mac under Parallels, in fact. [toddles off]
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
I disagree. I run Ubuntu on my home PC, and know, personally, at least 10 people who do the same. Video Editing Software and games are not essential for home use. 99% of people's average use on a PC is a web browser, and IM client, and e-mail client, and a word processor. Games are not as abundant, true, but I got EVE online working perfectly easily enough through wine at good speeds, UT2004 has a native port, and there is a version of solitaire ready. Depending on what games you play and what PC you have, VMWare/qemu is also an option. Grant it I'm not a major gamer - but a gamer is *not* the average PC user. And there is some video editing software out there.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
try MSDN
need a free COBOL editor for Windows?
The reality is most Vista users have had problems due to hardware not powerful enough or upgrading. Buying a new PC should solve both of those. Which just leads software compatibility. Which most software is now compatible anyway, you may need to upgrade. By next January all this will be laughable and people will want Vista anyway.
I think that IT administration does not bring any real value to a company. It is just making sure that people can do their jobs by providing infrastructure. However, this is something that can be outsourced, just like electricity, water and cleaning. The more stable the infrastructure is, the less it costs.
IT administration thus brings no value in itself, nor helps it people to do their job better. For that you need analysis, automation and education.
IT administration is pure overhead, and should be kept down as much as possible. Things which help here are quality of all components involved.
Doing a little upfront investigation into the quality of these things, and investing some more money into hardware and installation, will go a long way of relieving IT infrastructure from the babysitter syndrome.
I use OpenSUSE, which is supplied by Novell and includes a copy of their "Zenworks" updater. An icon on my taskbar changes when software updates are available - just like windows. When I click on it, it gives a list of the available updates and asks me if I want to install them - just like Windows. Then it checks to see that none of the updates will conflict before installing them. And it works. So, not entirely like Windows, then...
many comments above about windows, how horrible it is...linux...how much better it is...but you have all missed another great option, mac osx...a beautiful, easy to use and maintain os...im not saying its the be all and end all, i also use ubuntu, and like it very much, find it very easy to use, much easyier than windows...but i love my macbook, its the most beautiful os and very nice to use, very easy to install software, unfortunatly updating software is mostly done program to program, but at least all apple stuff is done together, and rerely restarts...my mac hasnt restarted since the update to 10.4.9 about a month ago...
I was going to reply to your original post, but thought I'd reply to this instead.
From experience, I think that _using_ Linux no easier or harder than _using_ Windows. Any difficulties that arise are usually due to particular pieces of software not having a native Linux port. Having said that, the GPL community has been excellent in replicating almost all functionality of almost all common Windows-based software.
It's the _maintenance_ where Linux beats Windows. Out-of-the-box installs of user-friendly distributions will detect and install appropriate drivers for almost all hardware, will auto-configure networks (DHCP), will install a bounty of useful software (intenet, email, chat, office, paint, photo, music, video, etc) and has incredibly easy update procedures. Windows can, in no way, come close to competing with this.
If you want to give Linux a try, I suggest you install (k)Ubuntu or Fedora. Prepare to be amazed! I use only Ubuntu at home on my primary computer - although I have a Windows PC (music studio) and a Mac laptop - and in many ways Ubuntu is my favourite OS.
Here it's easy.
I use Linux mostly :
- to manage a few websites
- to do office style stuff
- to manage images/photos
- for a little network-related stuff
I also have a Windows partition for games (currently X and ArmA). The last time I used Windows for work on my machine was with WfW 3.11. I also have an iBook which is essentially used as a typewriter.
In Linux (currently Ubuntu with the KDE desktop on top, basically Ubuntu + Kubuntu) I have out of the box :
- virtual desktops (Windows users usually don't "get" this, I can't live without it)
- proper window management (sloppy focus, click to send back/front, maximise on 1 dimension only, etc.)
- a proper (and easy to customise) keyboard layout (I mostly write in French, international support in Windows is abysmal)
- a compose key (essential)
- very decent *free* apps such as Scribus, ufraw/RAWstudio, Gimp, Krita, OOo, LittleCMS, qtpfsgui, K3b...
- industry standard commercial apps such as Bibble Pro (photo treatment), Antidote (language)
- industry standard server software
- support for pretty much everything
- documentation
In Windows, apart from the commercial apps, I have none of the above (well some free apps have been ported). Although I could buy the documentation if I wanted to. Or I could browse the abomination that is the MS website.
So I use Windows for what it's good for and Linux for the rest.
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
there's bdiff (binary diff) and different implementations of it, that could be used to distribute only the changed part.
:)
actually, is using something similar, so updates in there are incremental.
as for openoffice.org, i've heard that the binary form of the software during two releases changes enough to make patch ineffective - it would be too close to a full download. don't know how true has this been for all of the releases
Rich
Wow... Thats SO user friendly. Macs, gotta love them!
It all depends what you want to use your machine for.
;-D
For example, if you're a "creative type" you could spend £1,000s on all the latest packages from Adobe (Macromedia) or you could just download a Linux distro that has the same functionality such as the upcoming Ubuntu Studio (http://www.ubuntustudio.org) and spend the cash on hardware that's twice as fast to run it on...
Its all about the customer.. not.
XP is cheaper, and doesn't have as much DRM style control. Cant let it continue as a product.
Time for the forced upgrade treadmill to start back up as well ( MOLP's ) soon. Blah.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
hey. is there a filter for "suse" ? :)
i meant to say "suse is using something similar".
at least latest incarnations of opensuse, as i have little experience with older versions.
Rich
I was well $crewed by that; it was one of the things that finally forced me to dump Micro$oft in favour of SuSE.
.iso image via FTP; the site was throttled badly for dial-up users, and the download was going to take four or five days. "No problem", thought I, "Windows 2000 is stable; I'll just leave the machine on till it's done."
I had been downloading a DVD
Except that 3 days into it I went to bed, and when I got up in the morning the machine had downloaded a patch in the night and rebooted without giving me any option to ignore it. The ftp was not resumable. B*st*rds.
One can be so much more productive when one is not beset by what I have grown to call the Windows Migrane.
I can only agree with this guy: http://www.css3.info/kill-ie6-to-let-css3-live.
If this is what it takes to kill IE6, bring it on.
After 10+ years I suppose I'm more or less an advanced Linux user and while I can of course use pretty much any WIMP interface, I don't have the faintest clue how to react to a problem in windows because I don't use it. And I don't find the Mac easier to use either, despite the fact that I've had one for more or less a year now (and using it regularly). It's like virtual desktops. People who haven't grown with them (so to speak) have a lot of difficulties of grasping the purpose of them. A lot of the "natural" Unix desktop (or maybe it should be X11 ?) amenities are completely foreign to most users. Like vertical/horizontal maximise (oooh, but you need a 3 button mouse, the horror).
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
The Apple II was still available for 9 years after the Macintosh was introduced.
With so many powerful web based applications I find that even old W2000 boxes function just as well and the new PC's. All you need is Firefox and a decent Flash player and you can do pretty much anything. Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo have made sure people that the majority of people leave the gaming for the consoles (Yes I know real hardcore gamers prefer a PC but that is a minority)
So, to be honest, I can not thing of a single application that screams for Vista. Sometimes software is feature complete. Microsoft achieved that with office years ago. (I think office 97 was their feature complete release anything released after that is just cream and crap).
So, I think Windows is also feature complete. Buggy? Yes. Insecure? Yeah it can use improvement. Did it get improvement? YES every week! So there is nothing wrong with XP and unless some killer application that I really want requires me to upgrade I would quite happily keep using XP for the next 10 years. I know it's quirks, I know how to do stuff and that is further than I got with previous versions.
So, yeah Microsoft does have a problem. Now it is up to us to make sure they don't make it our problem which we can do by insisting on buying XP on our new PC's.
Start - Run - "net stop wuauserv".
Any Operating System will force you to reboot when the system itself has been patched. You'll never get away from that with current technology.
The difference is that for Apple software that is NOT part of the OS, there is no reboot required. That is why MS has been criticized - for forcing a reboot for software that is NOT part of the OS.
That said, QT isn't officially part of the Mac OS, although I guess it's become rather integrated with it, so maybe that explains why it wants a reboot.
"Money is truthful. If a man speaks of his honor, make him pay cash." Notebooks of Lazarus Long, Robert A. Heinlein
He pulled the plug on all PowerPC development? As I sit here typing on a PowerPC iBook running universal-compiled Firefox, I must admit, that's news to me.
That's clearly not an option, unless he wants his company to be shut down for infringing on Microsoft's copyrights.
And you sir, are a linux fanboy, who will not hear anything that doesn't fit into his narrow world view. I agree with the parent. My windows PCs are extraordinarily stable. I've got an old laptop I keep around for a bit of low risk portability (no one would ever steal such an ugly old pile of garbage) and it will run Win95 for months on end with no difficulties (which is fine because it doesn't need to be connected to the internet. My desktop has run XP for months at a time between restarts (yes, on a new install, many of the patches require restarts, but now only the odd security update actually needs a restart). My brand new laptop runs Unbuntu strictly for productivity reasons (no Dawn of War or GTA
Is XP the be all and end all solution to everyone's problems? No. Is linux? No. Different people need different systems for a variety of reasons. I use linux when it suits my needs and windows for the same reason. End of story.
Lose: misplace or fail || Loose: not bound together
What everybody seems to have forgotten is Microsoft's licensing policy. Sure, they won't be stamping any new XP discs after a while, but all those fancy new Vista licenses slapped onto new PC's can also be used as a license for any other older OS. At the company I work at, all the new machines we order have XP license stickers on them, however most machines get Windows 2000 installed. So, all you have to do is dupe a bunch of the XP cd's, since having copies of the cd doesn't really constitute piracy, so long as you have a legitimate sticker on the PC, you're good.
Windows has more viruses because linux has more virus coders.
I'm in the middle of installing Quake 4 - isn't that what you would consider a "videogame"?
As for the video editing, keep your eye on http://www.ubuntustudio.org/
I'd held off on getting MS Fresh Start for our donated computers, as it had been that they gave you a full CD and as many liceses as you needed for 98SE, which most of them already had. I checked the other day to see if they'd finally goosed it to XP. Nope. They now do the same thing but for 2000 Pro. Looks like they want this wiped off the earth as soon as possible.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
I refuse to get Vista until I begin hearing more favorable comments about it from the higher-level IT people where I work. A lot of the comments I've been hearing about Vista have been horrid (everything from 'buggy' to 'memory vampire'). If you can't even convince the techies to switch to a newer operating system, then you're in deep fecal matter. If they stop supporting XP, and Vista is still a mess, then I obviously have a big decision to make. I wouldn't rule out switching to some other operating system.
From here:
Boot it into windows before you leave and set ubuntu to shut down on login screen at midnight. And let all the super critical updates run. Those mandatory reboots are useless, and someone's tried to sue microsoft over work lost due to them. Also, I think a window that requires input on save can block the shutdown, such as an unsaved word doc.
http://themak.org
Everyone who wasn't expecting Microsoft to drop XP as soon as they thought they could, raise your hands. Let's be serious for a second - Ignore for the moment where the bugs came from, just look at the bottom line, like a MS beancounter would. MS is in business to make money, and it costs them a bomb to keep the XP team patching bugs.
Personally, I'm waiting for the day that MS stops allowing activations of XP. I've stockpiled activation codes and hacks, to say nothing of patches and 3rd party security kit - I have no plans to purchase Vista. but I'm kind of stuck needing to run a few games. Linux does everything else for me.
I'll back him up on it. When I installed Ubuntu, almost everything I needed was available right out of the box. The only thing missing was my preferred IM client. Within 2 hours, I'm able to do a full install, fully update, install everything I want, everything I might like to have someday, grab lunch, and start being productive. 2 hours on Windows on the same machine, and the updates aren't even finished yet, forget about installing anything useful.
Oops, seems I wrote before I read. Above should say: "Existing package lists are 'patched' when updated". Not the software itself - which is I guess what you're talking about.
This kind of diffing would have to done with source distributions of software I think..
Doesn't matter. You're coming with us anyway.
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
Lies. It asks you ever time you apply updates if you want to reboot. And if you decline, it pops back up every 10-15m or so.
Bill Gates is software's Dr. Death. It doesn't matter what the customer wants; Bill Gates, the richest man in the world, wants more money, and will drag everyone through his neurosis.
Microsoft's business model is to do what hardware manufacturers want. Hardware manufacturers want operating systems that can't run on old computers, so customers will be forced to buy new computers. Sometimes it has seemed to me that Microsoft is not really primarily a software company, but primarily an abuse company that accomplishes abuse through software.
Windows XP was not really stable until Service Pack 2 was released. Before that, Windows XP was full of grief for administrators. Service Pack 2 contained something like 330 documented fixes, if I remember correctly, and I verified that there were fixes that were not documented. Now Microsoft wants people to go through that again??? With a Service Pack 0 release?
Someone said that Microsoft's motto is "The whole world is our beta test site." The entire reason people wanted to migrate away from Windows 98 is that it has an unstable file system, and artificial limits to system resources. Otherwise, many companies would have wanted to stay with their old systems, because employees often run a very limited set of software packages.
Managers in a company that has a virtual monopoly, like Microsoft, may think that the way to make more money is never to release a good product, so that customers will always want more.
Eventually, I think, more and more companies and universities and governments will decide they don't like expensive, stupid, forced upgrade cycles, and will migrate to a managed distribution of Linux like Ubuntu.
The problem with Linux and BSD has always been that developers don't like to document what they have developed. Sometimes user-friendly GUIs and documentation can be 80% of the work, and that work isn't done very well by people who "just want to program".
Linux distributions need a manager like Mark Shuttleworth of Ubuntu. Developers don't like to manage their own work, as Mark said he has discovered. The Linux kernel has a manager, Linus Torvalds, and the rest of Linux needs a manager, also.
I have several times offered to help document open source software, but my offer has always been refused. Apparently there is a strong attachment to doing things the old way. Apparently there is a feeling that someone who writes the documentation will get too much credit, even though I did not expect to have my name on what I wrote.
Changing to any new operating system tends to be expensive because of the re-training required. Good top management could help design methods of easing that transition by coordinating the details that tend to be forgotten when no one is really in charge.
QUICK Gooogle - Release that new OS you haven't been working on - strike while the iron is hot!
Get your tagline off my lawn.
Linux will never replace Windows until it can run the vast majority of applications that keep people upgrading/buying computers--games. World of Warcraft has more than 8.5 million subscribers and no Linux client, and there is an enormous list of similar titles. It's the Catch 22 of open-source: No one wants to switch until developers are writing software for it and developers don't want to write software for it until enough people switch.
The link you provide is to manage the wuauclt app remotely via COM. SO you can request that the WU agent pulls down available updates but not get the agent to check other sites for updates to your own apps - just those which MS choose to update at MU/WU... the PP wanted the ability to use it to provide updates for his own applications - not force users to update the MS ones.
Look at it from the customer point of view :
When Microsoft migrated from DOS to Windows, every program and hardware still worked. You could buy newer machines and still work with your business tools and applications.
When Apple migrated from Apple II to MacOs, every program and hardware stopped working.
You had to dump and rebuy everything. The newer machines wouldn't run any of your business tools and applications.
On what grounds? What damages do MS suffer, if they're willing to pay MS what they consider fair for a "better" OS? Can you cite case law?
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
How can you be a healthcare provider AND be using Windows XP? The EULA says that you allow Microsoft and it's partners access to the data on your computer but you must also protect the privacy of the patients. These are mutually exclusive because there is no requirement in the EULA which states Microsoft must tell you what, when, or how it is accessing your data. IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Yes Media,..
Microsoft are likely not stupid - they have a small limited amount of time to lock Windows in place tighter than ever.
They need to right now, what with internet based applications (docs.google) or free software starting to rival office (oo)
I beleive that Microsoft are going to basically make peoples perception of Windows and media change.
Right now, people purchase a DVD player in order to play a DVD
They purchase a CD player or mp3 player for music.
They purchase these items to perform a function - to make their stuff 'work'
They don't purchase a DVD player just to have one, it's just a tool to access the real product, the media.
Now Microsoft don't make media but the least they can do is provide a device each home needs to access media.
Hence DRM really.
People purchase a device to perform a function and in Microsofts case I beleive they want media to be tied to Microsoft, I beleive infact specifically HD media they want tied to themselves (or rather Vista or Vista's successor)
MS want Windows to become a 'media delivery device' or rather, the only choice for playing or working with certain types of media.
Vista is the first real introduction of DRM - in 5-7 years when Vista is long in the tooth and docs.google, open office and linux are even more mature, Microsoft will need to be EVEN MORE entrenched than they are now in peoples homes and business's
I recall people going in a frenzy to buy 95, 98 and XP - of course there's always whiners and naysayers but this time around I certainly beleive the MAJORITY of the press on Vista is negative.
Hence if Microsoft is smart or evil (or both) they will entrench themselves cleverly in as a 'requirement' - much like they have now.
Even if the margins drop, even if they drop significantly, if their hardware and software continues to sell because it's the 'only solution' for certain functionality, that's going to be a lot of money in their pockets.
Imagine in 7 years if Microsoft don't have a strong grip of the market with Vista, do you think 'Vista 2' will launch successfully?
Shit.no! Trust me they are going to lock themselves in good and tight this round in order to survive and I'd be willing to bet good money that they will succeed too.
The business desktop version of Vista by default reboots without asking permission at 3am after receiving an update. After all, the computer can't be doing anything useful in the middle of the night, right?
I found out when it rebooted near the end of a week long calculation I was making.
Overall, my impression of Vista has been positive -- on the scale for MS Windows releases. It continues MS's unbroken track record of mediocrity. I've encountered some of the problems people have reported on Vista, although in most cases they aren't really a bad as people say. Other problems that people have feared are just figments of their imagination. You can rip CDs to MP3s and copy the files around. At least for now.
But the lesson they haven't learned is illustrated by the automatic reboot: they haven't learned how to stay out of the user's way. They may have copied some of the MacOS eye candy but they haven't copied is the philosophy of leaving the user in charge. Unix based desktops vary greatly in their usability. Some of them can be cluttered, or cryptic. But they always stay out of the user's way. The irony of Windows was all those years where MS supporters sneered at MacOS as being a childish toy, but Windows is the only desktop environment that patronizes its users.
I'd grade Vista as a solid C, where XP got a C, 2000 got a B, NT 4 a D. MS was aiming for a B, improving XPs security the way 2000 improved NT 4's stability, but early signs are not promising in that regard. It is also a bit buggier still than a released operating system should be, but not intolerably so. But unless you have a specific documented concern, for instance if you have an extensive DRM'd video collection you want to play out of your video card, I don't think there is a reason for Windows users to panic because they have to use XP.
The only people who clearly ought to be irritated by this are IT people, for whom it makes a lot of work and expense. If Vista delivers on promises of greater security (questionable yet), then it will have been worth their while.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Huh. That sounds an awful lot like Synaptic under Ubuntu. A nice, friendly GUI for installing new software and an automated process that routinely checks for and offers to install updates. Oh...wait...Windows Update only works for updating Microsoft software... Synaptic lets you install new software, and will update anything you install through it, meaning 3rd party software with absolutely no ties to the official Ubuntu distribution as well.
Not trying to be an ass... But Linux has had simple ways to update software for quite some time.
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
When I get new hardware, I will make sure XP drivers exist for each and every component. If they don't, I'm not going to buy it.
This is because I, for one, am not switching to Vista unless there is some serious software related compelling such a move. After years and years, XP has finally become reasonably secure enough to use if (and only if) you can apply 5 years worth of patches via Auto Update or something of the sort. I use Windows for its convenience. Switching to new bloatware is a lack of convenience, and being bloatware, the probability of 0days targetting it are far greater than boring old XP. No real reason to switch before 3-4 years if not more.
Another way is to click on the reboot modal dialog box in an morse code pattern that says "SOS" (that's 3 longs, 3 shorts, 3 longs), then pull out our keyboard connector and wistle Dixie into the thus freed port and finally turn your chair 3 times counter-clockwise, click your heels and say "i wish i was back in Munich".
This is not documented anywhere but i heard it from a guy who knows a guy whose father-in-law used to work with someone whose sister worked at Microsoft, so it must be true.
If they wanted you to actually do it they'd make it user friendly.
It's a Unix system - I know this.
Thats because windows when it updates updates threads that may or may not be active (this is why all installers or most anyway reccomend you close all programs). If it alters an active one and then the program goes back and overwrites the change then it screws up. If you do a reboot it commits it totally and becomes part of the OS or something...
Linux got smart goto run level 1, patch, back to run level 5 and no problems... Or it just locks things from editing or does them on the next reboot or something. No fuss about telling you to reboot, even if you've downloaded a new kernel upgrade.
Just one fundamental point here. Automatic upgrades are purely a matter of having somebody package the upgrade, and having an operating system process that monitors the availabilty of upgrades. It has nothing to do with the legal rights given to users or developers of the software which is a totally separate issue. If distro managers want to make those updates automatic, they can do so. If users want automatic update, they just have to choose a distro that has that.
The reason distros exist is to impose order on the creative chaos of open source development. They do have officially tested releases and sanctioned security patches.
I think the realization that is missing is that in free/open source, the person who manages the computer is ultimately in charge, which is not he case for proprietary software. He can configure his machines to take updates from the distro repositories, or he can set up his own repostiories that include just the updates he wants to take, as well as any software unique to his organization. The greatest practical strength of a largely f/oss installation is flexibility. That's the "Free" in F/OSS.
Of course, companies that have heavily invested in a collection of proprietary software that are very tightly integrated with each other are at the mercy of the vendor. If the vendor says upgrade, you upgrade everything. If the vendor says live with a problem in some system, you have to live with it. That's not to say that tight coupling doesn't have its advantages, but you pay a heavy price.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
The freedom for you is to do as we please. It sounds like a quote from a bad Hollywood movie to me, let's see what happens in the end of the year. MS do have revenues and share prices to think about, so if Vista doesn't sell, then it doesn't sell. I'm saying "Wauw". Do they think they can impress people with that? Try to change the name of your workgroup. A reboot is still required. Wauw. In Linux you can re-format the partition containing your root file system without rebooting :-)
The trick is to stop (but not disable) the AutoUpdate Service, which is what pops up that god forsaken dialog every 5 minutes. When you finally get around to rebooting it'll start up again and all is well.
Gents,
Sorry to branch off topic but this is one of the better places to ask and ever so mildly on topic.
I have a relatively simple and odd question.
What's with Vista and XP's UI?
See the thing is, I keep upgrading machines, 1ghz, 2ghz, 3ghz, 3ghz dual core, 512mb, 1gb, 2gb - etc
The user interface is laggy
EVER so slightly laggy but laggy, there's this 'engine' underneath the hood, since the days of 95 (yes 95) where it just feels wrong!
It's a ridiculous claim, have no doubt, I realise that but god-damnit it just seems that way.
Here's an example
You open a copy of Windows Explorer under Windows 95 with a floppy in the drive, 2 networked drives mapped and a cdrom in the drive.
It pauses for X amount of time, then it kind of starts to move, then suddenly bam it's done.
Do the same thing in XP.
It seems to behave identically - I mean the entire thing feels like the same chunk of code.
I was under the impression 95 / XP and Vista were all very very different under the hood, am I incorrect?
Has the primary 'engine' changed, has the kernel drastically changed but the Explorer UI remained similar?
It's not just opening Explorer, it's the start menu, it's alt tabbing, it's maximising it's the 'feel' - I'm well I'm sick of it!
It feels the same from version to version!
I don't need a slick graphical UI and well in all honesty I don't NEED to learn Mac OSX but the fact it is more responsive in some ways is great, I just want an OS which I feel in control of.
Sorry to make such a vague post but what am I doing wrong? Is there some magical tweaks out there which make Windows behave ultra reliably and snappily?
I know about the tweak ui power tool and I know about changing the figures to 0ms delays but even then things don't feel 'right'
Will a quad core help?
On this note, somewhat on topic (to my post) - I recall the 'bitboys' claiming they were going to release their 'glaze 3d' card with drivers which sync'd windows native 'frame rate' to the refresh rate of a monitor.
It sounds like nothing but it was going to create the illusion of an incredibly smooth scrolling Window for 2D - just moving windows around
It sounds like nothing but it would create the IMPRESSION of slickness, of responsiveness - no more tearing.
Such a small thing but from an end user perspective it might make things better.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Any answers or sadly flames?
When oh when, if ever will Microsofts interface and 'back end' truely be something special and new, if ever?
go try to buy any xp program now if i want a new copy of word, i have to upgrade to vista AND buy the $300 vista office disks. they spent all this money to make vista and now it sucks and no one wants it. so microsoft is forcing everyone to take it. welcome to a monopoly.
Though I have to admit, I've had more trouble with three different versions of Ubuntu (Dapper Drake, Edgy Eft, and Feisty Fawn) than I've ever had with Gentoo when it comes to getting a new system up and running. Sure, Ubuntu goes on faster, but getting issues resolved--static IP configuration and getting OpenAL to work correctly with my games, to name a couple--was a lot more difficult. The response time on the Ubuntu forums is a whole lot slower than I'm accustomed to, and most of the replies were
So, after a month or so of wrestling with it each time, I always ended up going back to Gentoo. Doing up the necessary config files took all of a half hour--this on a dual-boot XP/Linux machine with a partitioning scheme funkier than a straight-to-video blacksploitation flick. Once I had my list of basic packages and meta-packages to install typed in, I walked away, went to bed, and it was ready to go the next morning. I've had this latest install going for half a year, and the worst issue I've run into is the occasional hung process. Pop open KSysGuard, kill the process, move on with life.
Note what I said above, meta-packages, Gentoo not only abstracts the dependency issues to the point where you barely have to think about them, it goes one step further and allows you to ignore the package names for certain functional groups of software altogether.
So, if you're really and truly fed up with rpms, give Gentoo a spin. It requires some work on the front end, but the results are well worth it.
"We dwell within a silent country, beyond the reach of time and death" -Nothing Sophotech, The Golden Transcendence
1. Vista does not need a DX10 anything to run , even with all the bells & whistles turned on. You (mis)quote the BBC, well, I'll link to the BBC on this one - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6407419.stm which clearly explains a DX9 card is just fine for Areo.
s sells/
2. Vista can run just like all the versions of Windows before it, without any 3d acceleration at all. Therefore, a 3d card isn't mandatory at all. An 8Mb card will do just fine.
3. Memory: you have two people telling you that they/we can run Vista fine on less than the recommended 1-2GB just fine. Experience counts more than some shop (Dell) may recommend for running an operating system. Dell just want to sell as much hardware as they can, so of course they'll recommend as much memory as they can get away with. I refer you to the following page as pretty convincing evidence - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/13/dell_over
If that's not enough to quell your 'concerns' over Vista hardware costs, then I don't know what is.
throw new NoSignatureException();
Wow, that's intuitive. Do I have to stand on any particular leg while performing this arcane ritual?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Well, what's the standard deviation and what have you calculated it from?
Have you taken all Windows machines, looked at the uptime scores, taken the S.D of this figure and applied that to your own machine? That would make it a 6-sigma machine.
Or does it stay up long enough for you ro say "sigma" six times?
NOTE: MOST people measure uptime in days/hours. That you didn't means either
1) you don't know what 6sigma means (so can't apply it)
2) you're lying
3) you're hiding the truth behind buzzwords
It dramatically increased my productivity. Although I mostly use it for programming, I think the benefit can be realized by anyone. With Windows, I was constantly tweaking my setup and not getting as much work done. Things like defragging disks, scanning/cleaning viruses, reinstalling the whole OS from scratch every few months, etc. are just not issues with Linux. I haven't reinstalled Linux from scratch since I switched from Mandrake to Ubuntu but I've upgraded through 5 or 6 full releases with just the package manager and scarcely a reboot.
There are other nice things about Linux too, such as drivers for old hardware. Our old SCSI scanner hasn't been supported on Windows since 98 (HP stopped writing drivers after 98). Actually, this was the reason for switching my wife from Windows 98 to Linux many years ago. FWIW, she prefers Linux now too. Also, with Linux, we can share that scanner using SANE.
I also agree with what someone else said about pop-ups. Windows pop-ups (which are all too common) are modal and steal the input focus from the user. Sometimes I would be typing and accidentally agree (or disagree - who knows!) to a pop-up that I didn't have time to read. On Linux, such pop-ups are rare and they don't steal the input focus.
Best of luck, if you do decided to make the switch.
"I only have to go to 1 web site to update my PC's - Windows Update - and it's incredibly simple - just click on Update and voila, it's done and everything works."
Well, if you take that simple route, you'll also end up with malware like WGA on your machine. Going the manual route is a bit more work, but still pretty easy.
On Linux, OTOH, one might be forced to actually take their hands off the mouse in order to type something like:
aptitude update
aptitude upgrade
Oh, the horror!
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
You mean the reboot option that comes BACK every once in a while to ask if you want to reboot?
That's why the other guy said not to answer it - if you just push it to the side of your screen it can't pop up again since it's already there.. annoying as hell.
SearchIRC - Now with live chat directory!
You answered you're own question. You have floppies and mapped drives.. its loading/connecting first before displaying.
I'm sure theres some code ripped from earlier versions of windows, and theres also similar code. They did it one way before, why not write it similarly this time?
That said, windows is the only OS where I don't notice a lag in the GUI. Linux has horrible lag, its like a constant remote desktop connection. Its one of the main reasons I dont run linux as my primary OS. After using it for several hours/days I feel sick because I can notice the lag. It also just doesn't look as smooth, font's are weird and just the colors and display feels "off". It's felt this way when using different distros on a 166mhz to seeing it on core 2 duos with full optimization and beryl effects (which are really amazing, dont get me wrong)
not bashing linux, i like it, but ive never heard windows GUI called laggy before.. its just the applications that are laggy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conary_(package_manag er)
Yes it does, my friend, yes it does.
No, but you do have to face Cupertino and hum the Mac startup noise as you're doing it.
Anyway, as I said to the previous poster who made the same comment, the point is they don't want you to do it. They're telling you to reboot for a reason. This is merely a workaround, not SOP, and as such should not be expected to be user friendly.
It's a Unix system - I know this.
Wow, you are really in touch with the ordinary users aren't you? You should think about being a UI designer as a career option. ;-)
Or were you, perhaps, being ironic.
America, Home of the Brave.
I realised mapped drives, cd-drives with discs and floppys slow down the UI - the question is not only WHY but why from version to version? Fix it!
Why do I need to wait? Why not give me the UI, THEN poll the stuff? It's simple logic!
My pal showed me his Amiga 1200 15 YEARS ago which was (in some ways) more responsive than Windows now!
As for Linux being 'laggy' - I have not found that with Ubuntu and I've definately not found it with MacOSx.
(and no, I'm not pro-linux or mac, I run XP primarily)
If you are a volume lic user - you'll simply purchase hardware with vista pre-installed, then reinstall XP from your corp image or VLA CD's under your downgrade rights. What's the big deal?
I can see that, obviously, supporting two operating systems maybe too costly even for M$'s deep pockets, so why not open source XP and let the community burden any further development costs?
;-)
I for one see no problems with this plan or future M$ Vista sales revenues
You can use linux because it is free, i dont. And MANY others dont. I use it because it is powerfull and thats why very easy to use. I get done all my works what i need to do on so many ways that my OS isn't problem why i cant do my job or tasks.
When i used windows, i almost always needed to solve problems how to do tasks or what limits it has and how i can get around them. No, not with linux. I can find so many ways and choose and later choose different.
I like to use KDE what gives me more options and "very easy to use" -Desktop what windows cannot offer.
I have installed linux + gnome now over 170 PC for privat customers and #1 problem what is asked solution for problem from me is nothing to do with linux. There is A LOT less calls and emails from linux users than windows users. And no, i dont have any customers who have Vista so i cant say about that anything.
or alternatively
click "Add/remove programs"
select "Macromedia Flash player"
click "OK"
no need for a tutorial even
being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
and its very easy to turn of all together, but the linux zealots are too busy hand-editing config files and such to learn such minute details.
read this and am downloading every xp version i can get my hands on, thank god for mininova
In Linux, you only need to reboot when you upgrade your kernel, which happens maybe two or three times a year. And then you only need to reboot once; major Windows upgrades seem to require you to reboot multiple times.
Chris Mattern
> how does linux improve your productivity? I can do my tasks and jobs by my way, not by way what Microsoft thinks is best for everyone. Like very part tip of iceberg is KDE kip-slaves.
If you are getting close to changing, then I highly advise you to run a dual boot system. You can try Linux without giving up the safety of your XP. I'm a programmer working for many clients and I've found that virtual desktops have vastly improved my productivity and here is why. For one client, I sit at a desk and work on various projects. I open up a browser, terminal windows, mySQL Query Browser, etc. I start working on a problem. Then my client comes over and says, "Hey, I really need you to work on this other problem.". So, I have to go somewhere else on my browser, connect to a different database, log out of the remote servers I was in and log into the new ones. This really sucks...especially on days where I find I'm doing this 3, 4 or 5 times and jumping back and forth. It really takes me a few minutes for my brain to change gears. When I'm booted into Linux (Fedora on this particular laptop), I open up my applicaitons for problem #1 on desktop #1. When I need to change gears, I flip to the next desktop and open up the applications I need for problem #2. Now when I need to jump back and forth everything is there waiting for me. It's excellent.
Dual booting is a great thing when you are wondering about another OS. I say give it a shot. I've found the software updating process a little bit smoother on Ubuntu than on Fedora Core.
Good luck.
-- A cat is no trade for integrity!
Eventually, as it always happens, there will be bug releases and new drivers for Windows Vista. Upgrading to them is as easily as doing "Windows Update." Linux (and BSD) distros will never be this easily patched due to the very nature of being open source. I only have to go to 1 web site to update my PC's - Windows Update - and it's incredibly simple - just click on Update and voila, it's done and everything works.
Are you kidding? One of the biggest perks of both BSD and Linux is the painless it is to keep both your OS *AND* your apps updated. All modern distros make this extremely easy - a single command or a click on a button. Windows Update is actually very nice, but unless it patches your OS and updates all your apps (including the ones not by Microsoft), you're comparing apples and oranges.
And because the chicks dig it.
Do you think someone could start some sort of anti-trust suit on this? They are forcing customers to buy what seems to be a defective product.
I use XP and OpenBSD. Yesterday, I had a problem with AVG Antivirus (the free one for windows), so I tried to reinstall, but the uninstaller failed. I then had to go searching through my registry for about an hour (and I'm incredibly skilled with knowing windows locations), to remove probably about 100 links total. Had this happened on openbsd, worst case.. rm -rf AVG... and look for the config files and service references. Blammo! I don't have to search in 10 different registry places for obscurely hex-value named keys. However, I am new to openbsd, I'll admit. And from what I hear, my upgrade time will not be "simple", but I think I can bear with this minimalist system much better. Of all my hardware, the only thing openbsd couldn't get going was my SLI 7900GTX PCI-E's on my new computer, but then I transferred it to my old box with a 5900 ultra and it worked fine. I'm 22 right now, and I have to say that in the last 5 years, I've seen significant usability progress from linux variants, maybe in part due to my own understanding of it, but it seems like nowadays most fools can get at least ubuntu running with the software they need for everyday life (without spending $1k on office and vista ultimate)
I work for a non-profit, and we discovered last week that Microsoft's Charity OpenLicense program is no longer available for Windows XP or Office 2003. If we want those, we have to pay full price instead of the discounted Charity OL price (which is about 1/4 of the full price). In this particular case, we were attempting to buy a license to use with Parallels on one of our MacBooks, so that our web nerds could test their work on Windows.
What really pisses me off about them dropping the COL program on XP is that the non-profits are generally the ones that can least afford the hardware upgrades to make their existing clients play nice on Vista. On the other hand, it's still cheaper to buy XP even at full price.
I think that as certain distros such as Ubuntu get easier to use, Linux will catch on more. An easy to use distro for non-geeks was sorely overdue. Lets be realistic - I love linux and OSS but damn, its hard to use. I had to make a big effort to learn it. I hope that there is an even more dumbed down linux distro in the future that is as similar to Windows as legally possible. This is how to convert Windows users...give them a slow pitch and let them slowly adjust to the differences. As far as Microsoft's decision, I think this was simply a move to force third parties to become Vista-capable as soon as possible. Dont think its that big of a deal...anyone that counts will get off their a$$ and make sure their drivers work on Vista if they have a hard deadline. It costs money to test software and to make changes, so third parties will procrastinate otherwise. I used to laugh at all the linux users who pressed for open source (as a Windows IT person), but after learning slackware and realizing what you could do with it, only then did the limitations of Windows become clear. I do hope that linux continues to gain momentum.
Or you could just, oh - maybe, let me think here... REBOOT, yeah that's it, you could reboot and not have to worry about moving windows around changing policies or any stupid crap.
you can speed up the process of playing videogames on XP running in linux by writing in the nvidia devs forum and adding a +1 in the subject about xen aware drivers.
I work in the hearing healthcare business, specifically audiometrics and otoneurology. Our manufacturers lifecycle on software versions is rather extended. A couple were still DOS based in 2001. Currently, everything is spec'd for XP Pro SP2 and I don't expect this to change for at least another year or so. Most computerized medical diagnostic systems are approved by the FDA/UL/CE on a particular make and model and the manufacturer supplies the system with OEM XP. On others, the clients usually supply their own system. This is where we are having problems. Unless the clients special order systems with XP, it will not run the software. Go to Dell or the HP sites and customize a system. XP Pro is not a choice now. Our only resort may be to purchase systems with Vista, reformat, and install XP. This is going to add needless additional costs for the client.
Oh great, so I'll change this to "runs as many games as a Mac in the days before Parallels and the move to Intel".
Come to think of Parallels, why should we stick to fucking Wine (MS Libs ersatz) when we could use the original MS libraries on top of Linux, like parallels does with Macs.
In Europe, selling OEM versions of ANY software, unless you have personally signed an agreement to give up this right for reasonable compensation, is simply put completely legal.
;)
I have personally sold over 50 XP Home/Pro licences at online auctions and also about 10 Vista licences (half of them OEM).
I buy broken equipment that still has the stickers on, trash or repair the hardware and sell the licences for a nice profit. Sometimes I even get Office XP or older licences for free as long as I take away all the "old junk" myself.
No need to sell mice, motherboards or anything. Also no software patents and I can wipe my ass with EULAs and any other bullshit "agreements" I haven't signed. Too bad our VAT is about 20%...
Hey, maybe some of you could sell me a bunch of Windows/Office licence stickers from outside the European VAT zone? I can pay for shipping
Capitalization is the difference between "Helping your uncle jack off a horse" and "Helping your uncle Jack off a horse"
Gentoo's a little more complicated, but so long as you don't have any software installed that isn't part of the portage database, it's easy enough: emerge --sync && emerge -Davu world (some use emerge -DNavu world)
MS used to sell windows versions right up until the last day of support. So versions would go out of support and they would get swamped with cries from people but especially large enterprise customers with large support contracts saying, "but we just finished our migration last [week, month, etc]."
If support for XP ends in April 2009, then having the timeframe end for new installs at the end of 2007 makes perfect sense. It does not change the support commitment at all but allows people that download on the last day of availability to have some timeframe of full support.
That's the trade-off... speed. Updating linux is slow, tedious and not very intuitive. With Windows, I can choose which pieces of software that I wish to auto-update or which ones I intend to do manually. Restarts are rare, and everything runs well.
For one, I like to play PC games, so that rules out using it on my one gaming computer. I have 4 other PCs that are only used for browsing mp3 playing and movie watching - these would be great candidates for Linux (they are all running the same win2kpro install right now) and are a perfect example of an enchroachment area. Every couple years or so, I give Linux a spin, and it is always frustrating. My latest spin was installing a VMWare browser appliance. The version of Firefox on it was severely out of date so I download the latest version. But wait - there is no setup.exe (or obvious equiv) - windows is so ubiqutous that some things have become the fucking standard for intuitive administration. IF you are going to deviate from windows standards it had better be for a damn good reason. Is there a good reason for not having a setup.exe equivalent?
"I think it was meant for countries with a still-emerging PC market"
n s_and_pricing
No, that'd be Windows Vista Starter.
Incidentally, I'm confused by
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista_editio
which indicates that Starter is limited to *max 256M of memory. Odd considering requirements for Home Basic are 512 *minimum.
How deliberately-crippled is Starter? It has the (lol) 3-simultaneous-applications limit, of course. But with max 256 is it even going to run?
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
NET STOP WUASVC(*) (*) I'm not sure what is the exact service name, but NET STOPping it makes the dialog box go away and leaves you alone.
I say he should wait for Ubuntu Feisty to come out, ive heard *very* good things about it making non-free drivers and codecs and other software bits a cinch to install (currently in Edgy it takes a little fiddling around, not too much, but enough that it may put people off)
/etc/networking/interfaces and go up and down with them, but the Gnome Network Admin (even though I use XFCE) saves me a *lot* of time from when i was using XP
;)
Personally, I use Debian Etch and plan to stick with it for a while, but it works for me, and I like having a light, custom install that *only* has on it what I want.
I can, however, add a productivity item: Network Profiles
Its easy enough to add them in
I work for a Wireless ISP and each type of client-equipment I deal with is on a different subnet. So ive set up about a dozen different profiles that I can use and *click* its changed. This is not doable in XP, even XP Pro (it only, iirc, allows for one alternate IP config)
Just to keep from having to type in a different address all the time saves me alot of frustration
me likey.
By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
Your insightful post in one sentence: "Nobody got fired for buying Microsoft". I use a variation of that for beer at parties (in Texas); "Nobody ever got kicked out of a party for bringing Shiner".
moox. for a new generation.
Bill Gates is software's Dr. Death. It doesn't matter what the customer wants; Bill Gates, the richest man in the world, wants more money, and will drag everyone through his neurosis.
I agree with most of the rest of your post, but I do think this line is unfair. It's easier (and probably more correct) to attribute Microsoft missteps to incompetence rather than malice on the part of Bill Gates.
Through the Gates foundation, Bill Gates has donated billions of dollars to worthy charities around the world. It provides 17% of the world's polio eradication budget, as well as other monies for vaccines and HIV research. On the education front, the foundation has donated over a billion dollars to various scholarship programs to help needy students. The Wikipedia has a list of its other activities.
With its current assets, the Gates foundation will be donating at least $1.5 billion per year for the forseeable future. The doesn't mesh with the greed so often ascribed to Gates.
Someone is using Group Policy or registry-based policy to modify the default behavior of Automatic Updates. By default, the client asks "Reboot Now" and "Reboot Later". That's it. By default, there is no timer.
The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
" - Installing programs means ticking one box and pressing ok
- Patching all programs means clicking ok when the update program asks to run
- Uninstalling programs means unticking one box and pressing ok"
I call BS - I spent 10 minutes trying to figure out how to update the version of Firefox on the Ubuntu browser appliance I installed recently. Where is this magic button you speak of and why the fuck can't Linux just emulate the way we have all been doing shit on windows for years? (if there is a reason, it better be damn good)
Isn't that Google's motto?
I'm sure I submitted this story a week ago :)
Anyway - my experience was at the local mega-computer store, where Microsoft had come in around 2 weeks ago and 'recovered' all the XP media/disks etc... The store is now 100% XP free, overnight.
Another case, a friend bought a Dell with XP on it - on delivery, it had a free Vista upgrade (and no XP).
Anyway - it's already happenning.
EMail: 0110001101100010010000000110001101110010 0110000101111010011011100110000101110010 0010111001100011011011110110
Ba ha ha ha ha!
Ba ha ha ha ha!
Ba ha ha ha ha!
Ba ha ha ha ha!
Ba ha ha ha ha!
Ok, if you're not being a troll and really are that stupid, here's how it really works under Linux and BSD. Because of the source being available, I can update all of the software on my systems using Debian's APT. Not just the "operating system" (translation: kernel, desktop, some tools, media player, and web browser). Pretty much every piece of software (minus the nVidia driver and a few esoteric bits of software) comes out of Debian's huge repository of software. And it's not just updated once a month either.
I can't even begin to think how "the very nature of being open source" would stop system updates from happening. Open Source isn't anarchy.
Where is the API to hook into the Windows Update to check for my own updates??
/usr/local (or /opt -- shutter again). This is a very simple way to say, hey people, this is stuff that will work on your system, but it did not come from the vendor, this is locally added stuff here. There is no /usr/local in Windows. All of the applications are expected to go in the same place as the programs that come with the OS and to complicate things a little more, much of the "3rd party" applications for Windows comes from a company called Microsoft. By this, I mean things that do not come with Windows, but are so common that they assumed to be part of Windows. I'm talking about things like Office, Project, Access, etc.
One of the things I found lacking when I was a Windows developer was the inability for Windows to handle 3rd party addons.
For example, Visual Studio was OK. It was even cool that I could hook vim into it, so a plus point there for 3rd party additions. But for the important stuff, there were no hooks for 3rd party addons.
For example, in UNIX/Linux, I can add a man page or an info page (shutter) for 3rd party libraries, applications, etc, and they would just work as the vendor privided ones. The same tools worked the same way with the vendor stuff vs the addon stuff. I thought MSDN was pretty nice, and the documentation for MFC and all that was pretty good, but there was no way (at least at the time) for a 3rd party package to integrate their documentation into MSDN.
Also, in UNIX/Linux there is
My point with all of this, is that sucessful computer technologies welcome and are sucessful because of 3rd party addons. Things like Perl, python, C, Linux/UNIX, C++, Apache, etc. All of these products are great by themselves, but their real power is in their ability to be extended. I can add a module for Perl and it will "just work" as if it came with Perl itself. In fact, a number of the now standard Perl modules used to be standalone ones, but they became so popular that they got incorporated into Perl.
Now, in 2007, to my knowledge there is no OS (or even the technologies I just mentioned) that has good hooks into having one updating mechanism for things that come with the OS as well as 3rd party addons. This seems like the next logical step in computing.
Sadly, the policy editor isn't available on XP Home.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Oh yeah?! Well, you're a stupid head!
In my experience, once I introduce Mac OS X to people with this prejudice, most of them realize it is just sloppy engineering on Microsoft's behalf (or lack of caring, or maybe they've eeked every last ounce of performance out of an outdated platform, who knows). Obivously, Apple has figured it out, so it is possible.
My point being, you don't have to settle for unresponsive GUI and there should be no asumption that any other GUI will be plagued by poor response, just as every MS OS has been.
For those who have lots of disk space and don't want to be fiddling, some (most?) distro installer have a stage where you select which packages you want to install, and they have a nice little button labeled something like "All of them". That cuts down on the fiddling and gets you most, if not all the tools you'll ever need for your day-to-day tasks. The scope of "All of them" varies from distro to distro, but most modern distros have a whole lot of stuff (I think Debian Etch has 3 DVD's worth of packages out of the box).
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming
I forgot to add that XP gets progressively less responsive the longer you use it as it slowly gets mucked up with spy/ad/malware and thousands of unused lines of code added by long-gone apps that the "uninstall" feature failed to clean up. The can't be said about Mac OS X. You don't hear OS X users talking about doing "clean-installs" of the OS because their systems have just grown unresponsive. People can make all the excuses they want (larger market share so a bigger target, users are to blame, cheap 3rd party add-ons, blah blah), but the fact remains that Windows OSes seem unresponsive right out of the box and grow progressively worse with use.
Ditto. I only boot into XP to play games, maybe once a week. And each time I do so, it takes >2 minutes to get a usable desktop because of the windows updater, virus scan updates, and general sluggishness. I've been bitten by data loss from auto-update too, and that behavior is one of the big things that makes me feel happy to get back to Ubuntu.
I think the fact that it says OEM is an indicator that MS is trying to push the Vista to home users. Businesses shouldn't be affected by this so much as they generally don't purchase computers with an OEM OS, they usually reimage a machine altogether and do their licensing directly with MS. I personally plan to stick with XP until late 2008/early 2009 and possibly even further. Vista is just too unstable and incompatible. I liken it to making the jump from win 3.11 to win95. We all new win 95 was the way of the future, but god what a mess that was (plug and pray anyone?) I think I'll wait for windows 98.
The last time I tried Linux, it was a major bear to install. I tried multiple distros. SuSe wouldn't set up my internet, Fedora gave me a black screen (not even a command prompt), Ubuntu gave me a command prompt, but no GUI. Oddly enough, Debian Sarge came the closest to working (but no sound & no printer).
Under Windows, all the above worked except the printer (but it did work with my iBook). Windows has a large number of problems, bugs, and annoyances, but most of those aren't showstoppers. Linux, IME, has far fewer problems, but the ones it has often ARE showstoppers.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
http://thinktanktraining.com/vistax64
Bill Gates, if you're reading this, hook me up with a laptop, and I'll tell everyone how much I like Vista, which I do, which is the only reason why I would extend this offer.
Short list of reasons I like Vista:
Suck it, haters. Vista==100% satisfaction so far.
Didn't you all hear? Master Gates needs to sell more copies of vista so he can afford to go to space!
You must be kidding right? You'd have to be an idiot to find updating things like 3ds max and Maya (Autodesk applications) a chore. I use both of these and updating is as simple as downloading the patch and then running it. Where's the difficulty in that? Adobe software is even easier. It's update manager lets you knwo where tere are updates available for any adobe products you have installed and lets you decide when to download and install them. Pretty much like windows updates. I used Turbo Tax on the web so not much need to update it. You sound like one of those infomercials where they have these idiots making the most simple task seem like rocket science. I run a host of non MS applications and none of them have a crazy update process. Most update themselves for you. Those that don't do this simply require you to download the patch yourself then simply run it. Even many of my games have a simple click to update. I know you love your particular flavor of Linux and all but misrepresenting the difficulty of doing something as simple as applictaion updates is pretty weak.
Sure, I can find myself in most thing you say.
However, a 10+ or so day uptime on Windows is obviously out of the question - if you want a stable system, that is. Hence, my assertion that the replyer was lying.
>but does anyone have a clue as to what it costs to change out over 10,000 desktops?
No, but the large global corporation I work for is currently looking into it.
Anon
60 year old Linux using grandmother who has _girlfriends_?! [shiver]
I checked the XP "System Builder" license rules this time last year.
As long as you don't open the envelope, you can sell your System Builder Pack to whoever you want, if they agree to the same terms you did when you bought it. It can be traded over and over again as long as it's not opened.
I haven't priced Vista, but XP Home and Pro System Builder Packs usually costs the same as an boxed "retail" XP Home or Pro Upgrade package. Microsoft saves money because they don't offer end-user support and they don't have to pay for a fancy box. With Vista, there are also legal restrictions on using low-end OEM products in virtual machines.
I don't think this applies to vendor-specific OEM copies, such as the Vista Upgrade CDs mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
They will if their IT officers actually took the time to see what the rest of the market offered.
The fear that you have as an sysadmin is (well founded however) the reason why your infrastructure wont change.
Another very real reason is simply a matter of time. Like them or not (I don't), many Microsoft products work well enough. The stuff has to, or not even Microsoft's marketing prowess would help them.
For an understaffed, time-limited IT department, "good enough" really is good enough for right now. They may hate it with a passion, but if they don't have time to fully explore the alternatives AND to convince their management of the benefits AND continue their normal duties of responding to fires (due to being understaffed and unable to work preventative maintenance into their day-to-day activities), then it will be a while before something new can enter. Meanwhile, everyone becomes more accustomed to Microsoft software, and becomes blinded to the frequent crashes.
-M
They could be using XP to access mainframes or Terminal Services servers. I'm not saying that's how they do it, but it is possible to use XP in enterprise environments without saving data on the hard drive.
Sorry but this is how capitalism works. A free marketplace is based on consumer choice and competition. If you don't like Windows Vista you can switch to any other OS that is compatible with 99% of the software out there, like...umm...ahhhh...shit.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
I guess the real precedent is old coke vs new coke. If consumers vote with their wallets then big mega-corporations listen. MS can't risk a bad quarter over this, a dip in quarterly earning would cause many 10s of billions to be wiped out from their total stock valuation. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
If all you want to do is browse the web -- you are right. But to actually EXPLOIT linux? Someone told me that Windows allowed bridging a wired and wireless network just by clicking. I can't confirm that, but I present here the command line incantation that I use to do the transparent layer 3 bridging:
/sbin/modprobe ath_pci /sbin/iwconfig ath0 mode managed /sbin/iwconfig ath0 essid weimo2 /sbin/iwconfig ath0 rate 54M /sbin/ifconfig eth0 down /sbin/ifconfig ath0 down /sbin/ifconfig ath0 192.168.1.2 /sbin/ifconfig eth0 0.0.0.0 /usr/local/sbin/parprouted ath0 eth0 /sbin/ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.50 /sbin/service dhcpd restart /sbin/route add default gw 192.168.1.1
.50 address is done so that dhcpd will listen on both ports, because broadcast traffic is not bridged by parprouted.
echo "1" >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
And I really don't know how to do this from the GUI (I don't think there IS a way, but I could be wrong). For those "Linux gurus" who are probably a bit puzzled -- this is a 2.4 kernel, the box bridges wired to wireless, and provides dhcp to both sides. There are two additional machines on the wired side, and the main router (from this clusters perspective) is on the wireless side. Assigning the
But I don't expect Linux users to generally be able to do this kind of stuff. This generates a service industry, which, from my point of view, is a good thing. People can pay me a couple of bucks to sort this sort of thing out -- they're happy, and I am happy too.
I have felt that Windows was encroaching on my business, and so I welcome the new higher prices and demands that it is making on hardware. Every software "Wizard" makes me less needed; on the flip side, the job of attempting to match what the Wizard can do, and the users specified or perceived needs is becoming a serious issue. Especially since my copy of Retail XP didn't even come with usuable paper documentation -- and the help system is inadequate, meaning that the XP solution to the above problem is "clock around, and screw around until it works, or not".
Yes, I know that resources such as MSDN are available; ordinary users wouldn't use those.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
Well it sure depends on which courts you end up in.
But nowadays you could get extradited to the USA for all sorts of things...
Erm, linux boxes *can* get rooted, and it's damned embarassing when they do (aye, speaking from experience). Packages like KMyFirewall (dead easy) or shorewall (incredibly powerful) can both have you set up with a working firewall with a minimum of effort. The best part is that they both silently run in the background without you having to worry about them.
To tie in to your main point, these and other firewalls can be installed, upgraded, and managed using the same package manager as everything else. Without rebooting.
The Gospel according to lolcat
And then you're stuck with a dialog that won't go away. Where's the "I NEVER want to reboot, so SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LEAVE ME ALONE!" button?!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Yes, I'm something like the ten thousandth Average Joe Slashdot to have an opinion on what Apple should do, but if I were in their shoes right now I'd be staffing up the OS X division, working on a broader selection of hardware drivers and preparing for an OEM release of their OS.
Dragging Windows users kicking and screaming to Vista might be the last straw that convinces them to seek an alternative OS, and although Linux is closer to being ready for the typical consumer's desktop than it's ever been, but not close enough yet. I think Apple should be poised to seize that market.
Yes, allowing users to (legally) run OS X on any x86 hardware instead of just Apple-badged models would cut into Apple's hardware sales -- but maybe it would be worth it for the massive boost in OS sales when every PC OEM comes running?
Maybe people will start actually caring about ReactOS.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Can I install OSX on my existing, non-Apple hardware? No.
That's why I refuse to even consider it: I don't want to buy Apple's overpriced products, when I can build a custom PC for myself and install Linux on it (I haven't used Windows since two years ago).
A CC-licensed illustrated horror novel
By early 2008, Microsoft's contracts with computer makers will require companies to only sell Vista-loaded machines. "The OEM version of XP Professional goes next January," said Frank Luburic, senior ThinkPad product manager for Lenovo. "At that point, they'll have no choice."
Despite Microsoft's relentless promotion of Vista, manufacturers are still seeing plenty of demand from customers for systems preloaded with XP, especially in the finicky SOHO market.
I have no idea what their contract is with Microsoft. But if they had some backbone, wouldn't now be the time to say, "if you don't allow us to continue to sell XP (which is our most selling option) we will drop Vista"?
Just a thought, the article only mentions XP Pro OEM, so not clear if other versions are affected. It should still be possible to buy XP in a store as long as they carry them, ne?
Carbon based humanoid in training.
What's with the bile? The GP was not at all inflammatory or intolerant to others, especially Linux fanboys. He posts his experience, lightly kicks Windows by implying that it requires a professional to run it properly, and finishes with a polite and friendly smile. You then reply and bite his head off.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you were testing the validity of the GP's sig.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
Try ClickOnce.
No kidding; in fact, Linux is better then Windows in this regard! Windows Update only works with Microsoft stuff, but every Linux distro's package manager works with all the software any non-expert user* could possibly have.
(*non-expert users shouldn't be -- and shouldn't need to be -- installing software outside of the distro's repository.)
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
This is what finally convinced me to remove Windows XP from my computer, after dual booting for about 3 mo. just getting started with Windows became a long and arduous task of downloading updates and rebooting. After about six months I would boot into Windows step away from the desk and Linux was sitting there when I came back. This would happen again and again eventually it was glaringly evident that dual booting Windows was just a big PITA. Food for thought for those dual booting between XP and Vista.
Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
Or if you're like me, after you tell it later and the dialog pops up again in 5 minutes, Kill the explorer and wuauclt processes. wuauclt.exe will try to relaunch but without explorer running it fails.
I launched executables from the applications tab of task manager for about 3 days before I finally decided I was willing to reboot *on my terms*
Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
Also, if your logged in as an unprivileged user who cannot reboot, it will still ask you...
Sometimes both buttons will be ghosted, so you can't get rid of the dialog!
See, a proper multiuser OS would be able to figure out that you can't reboot, and therefore not bug you with the dialogs.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
emerge --sync
emerge -uDNv world
I disagree. There was a time when this would have been true, but I don't think it's the case anymore.
I'm a Kubuntu user. I use Kopete for chatting, Kaffeine for watching videos, Amarok for listening to music, KBluetoothd for managing my bluetooth devices, KPDF viewer for accessing PDFs, Konqueror for file management/ftp/smb/sftp, Konversation for IRC (though I believe Kopete also does IRC), K3B for CD and DVD burning, and OpenOffice for my office suite needs - All of the above come installed with Kubuntu.
I've added the following applications using only a few clicks: KNetworkManager for my wireless card, Kvpnc for accessing my campus' VPN, Firefox for browsing the web, Tomboy for taking notes in classes, DOSBox to play a few old Dos games and run my ancient accounting software, Eclipse for a programming IDE (though I usually just use Kate, which came pre-installed), Beagle for searching my desktop, Adobe Flash and Sun's Java for obvious uses, VMWare Player for occasionally running Windows programs, and Gmail-notifier to be notified when I get e-mail. These were all in the repositories, and took only a few clicks to install - a few of them are going to be included in the next version of the OS, and a few others come pre-installed with the gnome version of Ubuntu.
Some other programs/features I've setup with a little bit more configuration were Beryl, MythTV, tvtime, lirc (for using a remote), I set up a Samba share, and I share my printers to other computers on my network. I've also setup SSH so I can access my computer even when I'm away, and a software RAID 5 to ensure that if I have a hard disk failure, I don't lose my data. Any of the things on this list are either impossible on Windows, or at least as complicated.
Add all that to the fact that I don't have to worry about viruses, and I'd say I've got a pretty easy to use system. Yes, I use Linux because it's fast, free and stable, but I'd also say its the easy choice.
I don't use Windows so I don't know the background very well, but is XP the first operating system that they could shut down worldwide (except for pirated copies) just by refusing to authorize its installation? Perhaps they didn't shut down the earlier versions as fast because getting illicit copies was so much easier?
Also, don't forget that Vista has all that wonderful DRM which Microsoft is banking on; they want everyone to be using that as soon as possible.
There is a common thread in modern human life. During the early years, in college and for a few years after, people change their living space every single year - sometimes more often. But as you get on in years, this slows down. First you might only move every few years. Then you buy a house. Then you want to stay in a house for a long time.
Generally, in the material world, this is because you have too much stuff to make moving an inexpensive and hassle-free proposition. But is it really any different in the digital world?
What about these operating systems is changing *so* fundamentally that it requires a major system overhaul every few years? How long do we have to wait for a stable kernel upon which we can build the rest of our systems? The fact of the matter is that in a few short years, all of our systems will be distributed anyway. Already our applications live on servers in an environment whose hardware and underlying software can change instantly - without the end user noticing so much as a hiccup. Why is it that our desktop and laptop machines suffer from such a stuttering inability to avoid a major disruption all the freaking time?
I heartily applaud anyone who loves to get into the nitty gritty of how to put a computer together, or install an os, or fix a car, or brew their own beer. I've even had excellent, informative forays into those areas. But, frankly, they don't hold my interest. I'm paying cash on the barrelhead. I want an os that works. That is not a megalomaniacal freak that insists I tinker with it every few weeks, just so it doesn't start spewing "Squeegee The Pickle Wallaby!" whenever I try to boot it up. How is that so wrong? How is that Microsoft hasn't caught on yet?
[Ego]out
I feel the same way he does.
Try openSuSE, even though Novell has that pack with MS. I suggest using the KDE desktop.
I feel vastly more in control when I'm using KDE than either OS X (ho-hum) or Windows (ick).
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
I will admit that OS X is stellar in this regard, and Windows is absolutely annoying in every aspect when it comes to this. I can be playing World of Warcraft on my Windows box at home (the only thing I use it for) and in the middle of a battle, up pops my anti-virus software just letting me know that it's downloading an update! It task swaps back to the desktop, just to let me know "hey, I'm doing something!" There are way too many Windows programs that do this. Linux and Gnome are only slightly better.
I long for a day when other developers will figure out what Apple has, but even Apple isn't that great at it because Apple's Software Update feature pops up on my Windows box wanting me to upgrade the DRM on iTunes and again it interrupts my WoW gaming session.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
After killing explorer and the wuauclt processes I ran things from task manager for about 3 days, until I was ready to reboot.
Since then I've disabled automatic updating and just do it via autopatcher and by hand.
Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
I work for a major corp (Fortune 500) and we have plenty of Linux servers, but the group I am in only uses XP on desktop. The thing is come the next upgrade the corporate position on Linux may demand that they go to Linux on the desktop. More of the specific apps we use are becoming web based and I suspect most of the rest have been ported over... I do NOT hate Bill or his company...they both have helped keep me employed for years!
And since when the hell should the user start taking orders from the OS? They should be able to reboot whenever they please, not when the OS bitches and whines about it until you give in.
IT cannot try to find alternatives on their own, in these cases. Since IT folk are not trained in medicine, how can they accurately judge which radiology software is better for treating patients, for example?
And, of course, there's the fear factor. If the hospital moves to another platform and something goes wrong and patient care suffers (or someone dies) because of computer problems, everyone is going to second guess that decision. On the other hand, if the hospital upgrades to Vista and something goes wrong because of computer problems, the hospital can blame Microsoft.
That would be funnier if I hadn't woken up this morning to find out windows had installed the latest patch on me and oh so helpfully restarted my comp while I had programs working.
I think it is time to seek for some sort of legislation for consumer protection against companies, which use their virtual monopoly to create forced sales cycles. It's getting more and more obvious, that costumers don't feel the need, the benefit to switch from XP to Vista. It would be ridiculous if car manufacturers would stop supplying spare parts for older models, so that people would be prevented to drive older cars. If the original manufacturer does not want to supply spare parts, OEMs do it.
If Microsoft stops selling XP, legislation should force them to give access to the source code, in order to enable "software OEMs" to continue to provide support, updates, etc. for consumer protection. Since Vista is supposedly developed from scratch, Microsoft could not even argue, that opening up the XP source code is a threat for Vista.
I am curious what the Wall Street guys will have to say about this.
I am really curious, if ignoring customer needs in order to force a new product cycle sale will be forgiven to MSFT.
They slam pretty hard companies, which ignore customer needs.
It is clear, that MS can even think of this, because they think that they are in virtual monopoly.
Normal market conditions would kill any company, which is ignoring end-user customers as Microsoft does with trying to force down Vista on their throats.
But if you pick reboot later, (at least in XP) a timer will bring up the prompt again every 5 minutes or so. I believe it will eventually do an automatic reboot if you don't answer the prompt, but I haven't left the computer in Windows that long lately. (this is an out-of-the-box XP setup on a Dell laptop)
A CEO of an S&P 500, S&P MidCap, S&P SmallCap, etc. corporation is not going to risk his publicly traded corporation's entire infrastructure (the "heart" of the communications between all co-workers) to a 5 year old company (is Ubuntu even a corporation?) that also has many, many competitors.
Oh yeah?
Never forget that's the very same CEO who will in a heartbeat, outsource his entire IT infrastructure... including *you* and all the rest of your fellow senior IT staff (with the exception of a handful of the lowest-paid desktop support monkeys), to a 5-year old company in Bangalore, India.
You know what's worse? Windows Server 2003 will automatically reboot itself in the middle of the night after it's been updated. What kind of crazy shit is that?! If you tell your server to automatically download critical security fixes, it will reboot itself without warning?
I know, some know-it-all will tell me that Windows Server 2003 won't actually do that and that I'm just spreading FUD. And, you know, maybe all my servers just occasionally crash in the middle of the night, right after running updates, and they fail to report the unplanned reboot in the Event Log. If that's the case, it doesn't make me feel any better.
Get your ass back under the bridge, and be quiet.
The point is that I can't go to Windows Update and get all applications updated from there. There is no hook in API to allow 3rd party to check for their updates with that API.
That's the problem. If you have 50 applications, you have 50 different update schemes. It is redundant.
On the other hand, in most Linux distributions any one can hook into the update API. On Debian you do that with a text editor by adding a new deb line to the config file.
Who gives a flying fuck what Billy Boy does with his money? The issue at hand is that he makes shitty software and now he's strong-arming his customers into buying a shitty upgrade!
Maybe instead I'll donate the money that I would've spent on Vista to a charity if that will make you fanboys shut the fuck up about how "noble" Gates is!
Besides, has he given ALL his money away yet? No? Then shut the fuck up about it! So he gives away some of his surplus...big frigging deal! He still has far more wealth than any one person should be allowed to accumulate! He's damn lucky that the rest of humanity doesn't show up outside his house with torches and pitchforks demanding an accounting for his excessive greed and megalomania!
You're using her as bait, Master!
Yawn, this story is a bunch of FUD. Look up "downgrade rights". This should get you started: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifelicensefaq
Why should Microsoft care if companies are producing windows XP machines? They are still get money for the sale of Windows XP.
I understand giving up support for Windows XP to force users to move to Vista, but selling XP seems to just continue bringing money in. In fact, in another year, someone who buys an XP machine today might buy a Vista upgrade. I can't see how this is bad for Microsoft. It to be a win, win... win situation.
I had the same problem trying to install a retail copy of Windows XP on a Sony Vaio laptop. Nothing worked, the video was screwy, no network. I had no choice but to use the Sony OEM install, which had all their customized drivers. Linux (Fedora) on the other hand mostly worked (I needed to download and setup a video driver for 3D acceleration, but 2D was OK).
The point is that an anecdotal success or failure on an individual machine does not really tell you anything. End users rarely if ever perform an installation. If Dell's were available with Linux pre-installed, would end-users have a problem? I doubt it.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
Does this mean I should go out and buy some XP disks just in case? This is totally weird.
There is simply too much glass..
... and I stumbled upon this discussion from before my time here on Slashdot. I had, up 'til now, quietly assumed that all MS releases came with the same negative reaction from Linux fanboys. I thought that every new release found something else to complain about (post Windows 98). I thought every release was going to be the downfall of MS, in the eyes of the Linux community. I was wrong. If that link is anything to go by (and the number of issues raised by the comments therein), Windows Vista actually is a worse-than-usual Windows release. Who knows, maybe there is some validity in claims that MS will fall, and that Vista will indeed be the last of its kind.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
At the point Vista is at right now, I would move to Ubuntu or RHEL on the desktop before I moved to Vista. Seriously; no shit. I still use XP on everything, not because it's incredibly awesome but because I know it works most of the time. The general consensus among Windows admins out there seems to be that Vista is not ready for wide deployment due to ongoing compatability and driver issues. In my admittedly brief testing, I'd have to agree.
I'll be hoarding up a bunch of VLKs for XP and Office (or possibly even installing OpenOffice on some users who don't really need Office) and ordering machines with no OS. This move will backfire on Microsoft; the IT world in general is far more trusting of Open Source desktop apps than they were during the Windows 98->XP switch (and far more distrustful of Vista than XP.) If a user has to re-learn the OS anyway and the admin does not trust Windows to work reliably, why not move them to Linux? Hell you could load Ubuntu on a machine and tell the end-user it's Vista and they probably wouldn't know the difference.
For several decades (the 50s through the 70s) Detroit had the American public convinced that they absolutely had to have a new car every year. (Well, every two years, at least.) Detroit had car-buyers convinced that tremendous technical strides were made every year, and that this year's car made last year's obsolete. The car-makers did this by introducing superficial cosmetic changes and adding pointless "innovations" (remember the push-button automatic gear shift?), then marketing them as major leaps into the technological future.
Perhaps the archetypal feature of this type was the tail fin. It's hard to say when the evolution of the tail fin began--maybe 1950 or so, when they were just a line of chrome that marked a ridge that ran along the trunk of the car to the tail lights. Each year, the fins became more prominent, growing into things resembling the wings of a jet fighter, and eventually (at least in some models) taking over the entire trunk lid with their swooping, razor-edged lines. Having reached the limits of absurdity, a reverse evolution set in, that culminated in the slow shrinkage of the fin until it became vestigial, then disappeared altogether.
I don't think anyone ever actually said that tail fins would make your car run faster or handle better. But that was hardly necessary--how could something so cool and "aerodynamic" not be a good thing? Most importantly--as far as the auto-makers were concerned, the dimensions of the tail fins were a clear visual indicator of who had this year's model, and who was stuck with last-years lame obsolete piece of junk with those inferior fins.
What's this got to do with Windows Vista? Surely, the parallells aren't that hard to see. Microsoft has normal PC users convinced that operating system technology is being continually and rapidly advanced by the MicroSerfs of Redmond, and that if you don't have this year's model you're just a technical lamer. Furthermore, the chief way that MS differentiates the iterations of its Operating Systems is through superficial visual changes--but instead of bigger tail fins, we get a "glitzier" GUI. That's because MS feels that Joe user wouldn't be able to understand any technical reasons why one OS might be prefereable to another, and--more imporantly--because there really aren't any reasons why Vista is clearly preferable to XP--or even Windows 2K. (Unless, of course, you need some feature that MS has refused to retrofit into a previous Window release just to make sure that you will have to switch. For example, when I went wireless, I really wanted WPA-PSK security, but that wasn't available for Win 2K, so I had to switch to XP.)
I suppose the only hope is that MS screws up so bad with a new OS release that people just refuse to buy it, or to buy computers that have it preinstalled. Maybe Vista is that OS, I don't know. When that day comes, maybe MS--or their successors--will build a really good OS. One that's modular, so that you can swap out chunks as they become obsolete, or are found to have fatal security flaws, and recompile the sucker. And hey, maybe people will wise up to the fact that a GUI is just another modular layer that you can slap on top of an operating system, and that you don't need to replace the guts of the OS if you want latest coolest 3D icons with those gotta-have tail fins.
Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
My first machine was a old IBM 8086, From there I went to 95, then 98, finely on my second XP machine. While on the whole XP was/is much better then 98, mostly more stable and not taking to whole machine if one program crashed. There have been days I'd loved to throw the whole thing out the window. The point I getting to is APPLE,/ MAC. I think that the move to kill XP so soon will drive a lot of folks to MAC, I know MAC has its own issues. however the benefits to me seem to outweigh any issues. I would expect to see MAC sales go up over the next year or so, as XP gets harder to find, and Folks find they don't want to help Microsoft break in a new system. and have to deal with stupid DRM and security stuff they shouldn't have to mess with. Well, thats my rant for today..
Please read mu blog for my views on Technology and Tech; http://kennethlawson.blogspot.com/
I was speaking to somebody yesterday, who said "I don't want to buy that thing" to which she meant Vista. I encouraged her to call Dell and ask for a computer with XP.
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
After you install updates, if you go into computer management and stop the Automatic Updates service, it won't bother you any more about restarting.
Errr.... What???!!! Do you honestly think this is even a remotely acceptable workaround for anyone?
1. I should not have to alter my workflow to prevent a reboot.
2. I should not have to remember to keep a window with unsaved text open to prevent a reboot.
3. I should not have to set my system to shutdown at midnight.
And I don't have to. That's why I don't use windows for any real work at home anymore. And that's why I'm researching how to create an open source replacement for the proprietary database solution at work so we have the option to switch in the future.
It'll be slow, but I'll regain my total freedom eventually, and free others with me.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
I accuse you of being an astroturfer.
I have a compaq laptop with a turion amd 64 bit chip with 512 mb ram (shared with ati vid card). Today, just for the hell of it, I installed Windows Vista to see how it ran. It can be described in 1 word, "Awful". It took over 2 hours to install (mostly because I went away for 2 hours, came back and found out the computer had frozen during install so I had to power down and start the process again). Once Vista was FINALLY installed I tried executing the most MUNDANE tasks and it was like I was working on a computer that was 20 years out of date. It was maddenly slow and flat out froze constantly. Then I downloaded and installed Suse 10.2 (the downloading AND installation together took 2 hours). After the installation it was like I was driving a Ferrari. The computer FLEW no matter what I did. I installed World Community Grid (processor intensive distributed computing program) and ran gimp, open office and was surfing on the web with no lag. This begs the question. What the HELL is Microsoft DOING? I mean how HARD is it to create software that runs quickly and reliably? ESPECIALLY when you have TONS of money to throw at the problem! I mean linux is FREE for gods sake and it runs faster than ANY installation of windows EVER have! UGH!! I'm praying to god that game makers like Blizzard (WoW), CCP (Eve Online) and Cornered Rat Software (World War II Online) will start coming out with linux installations because that's the ONLY reason I have 1 computer on windows.
Savy
I've found you can stop the "Automatic Updates" service and not get the message to "reboot" all the darn time. Of course, then you can reboot at your leisure. This does not disable the service, just stops it for your current session.
Or, start-run a "net stop wuauserv". Once you hit enter, it'll stop the service via a command prompt. For some reason, that's simpler for me.
Karnal
I also work in a health care facility and we also use Windows XP Pro. Our CIO has approved the use of Windows XP Pro so, as an IT professional, that's what I have to go on. I suspect that a real answer will have to be decided by the lawyers if/when someone discovers that their personal/confidential info was accessed by Microsoft OR if/when enough citizens who fear that happening raise a big enough stink about it to the government.
Windows is a huge pain in the ass now. It used to be tolerable to upgrade the OS (on the same hardware) every 2-3 years but i'm not buying new hardware to run Windows. I spent my money on an Apple Mac Mini. The cost was less, the machine makes no noise and unlike PC hardware it looks great.
For the first time in my life I have a computer that works great AND looks good (not to mention small). No more Frankenstein-looking PCs with noisy fans and annoying viruses.
Peter Gutmann makes a good point about MS caring relatively little about security and making a Windows admin's life simple. It's time to move on to something better.
For us (medical center), the end of support will mean that we can no longer use XP, even if it still "works". Once a vulnerability is found in XP (after it's end-of-life) for which there is no patch, our workstations would no longer be in compliance with various mandated regulations (and, yeah, whether or not XP itself violates those regulations is debatable). So, we'll have to plan on being switched over to something else by then.
Similarly, if our site license ever changes so that we can no longer install XP on new PCs, we'll have to make the switch.
Way to GO!! Hopefully everyone will do that, As soona s I am able moneywise I am headed there too. How has your experince with Mac been,switchover, everyday stuff and reliability , It can't be any worst the XP.
Please read mu blog for my views on Technology and Tech; http://kennethlawson.blogspot.com/
Start > run > gpedit.msc > computer config > admin templates > windows components > windows update > enable re-prompt for restart and set timer to 1440 minutes (the maximum). Restart windows update service.
Annoying focus-stealing box now only appears once every 1440 minutes instead of every 10.
Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
You've "noticed" this trend even though by your own admission you don't even use Vista. That's impressive. And security has "trended down"? Wow, that's news for me.
So let me see if I get this right. Your "friend" didn't think of using an image to update these laptops*. So this is Microsoft's fault somewhow. And in your mind this is proof that Microsoft is "breaking" Windows XP. Breaking XP. Correct?
That's interesting - I already upgraded two three year old computers from XP Pro to Vista Home Premium and they work just fine.
Oh, "BadVista". I'm sure they have the "scoop" for sure.
* Updating a post-SP2 XP install is a pain, no doubt about it. That's why you use an image (if you're doing more than 10 boxes, please) or use a slipstreamed install, which is pretty simple to do.
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
Well, I was planning on replacing my computer (now 5 years old) soon, and upgrading from XP Home to XP Media when I got my holiday bonus this year, but if they are getting rid of XP so soon, my guess is that full support won't be far behind. I could go with Vista, but the majority of what I've heard about it, is that it is worth more trouble that it's worth, especially at the price. More than that, most of what Vista has to offer, I simply don't need.
I'm not a major computer person. I use it for email, surfing the web, holding pictures and movies and occasionally chatting on a couple of forums. I know alternatives exist, in Mac and Linux, but since I'm not willing to spend the money on Vista, I don't think I'll spend money on a Mac. So that leaves Linux...
I suppose I'll be spending a few weekends seeing which type of Linux suits me... Something for a more simple computer user who doesn't need super-massive functionality, but just works and works without being complicated (meaning, typing commands is beyond me).
It's a pity, really. I like the interface and stability XP has, and switching to a new OS is going to be a headache, no matter how easy it may or may not be.
Using the words Healthcare and Terminal Services together just sounds.... so wrong.
Quite a lot of work has gone into GTK (a couple of cycles ago, actually) and metacity in order to get focus stealing right. A lot of *hard* work, really. (Other window managers, specially the new ones which do lots of bling, tend to ignore such things...) If you are not running metacity, try it; if you are, please try to figure out a pattern which causes the problem and report it as a bug (probably to both metacity and gaim).
Not to nitpick, but the morse code for SOS is 3 shorts, 3 longs, 3 shorts (... --- ...). :)
there is no OS (or even the technologies I just mentioned) that has good hooks into having one updating mechanism for things that come with the OS as well as 3rd party addons.
Gentoo supports pulling updates from pretty much any source - cvs, svn, alternative http from it's normal site, etc.
It also supports overlays - i.e. secondary collections of packages that have their own stuff. If you've configured your system to use one of those it works seamlessly as though its the same as something from the normal package list. There's a way to update the data in that using a library (though mostly this is done using a version control system). They even host a bunch of popular overlays on a gentoo server.
It's also trivial to make your own overlay and update it manually.
There's also a way to do such an overlay system with RRM based distros (Yum), or with Debian-based distros (built-in to package system).
That pretty much covers all Linux distros. Is there something else to which you were referring?
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
Yeah, it does that if you leave Automatic Updates at the default setting of download and install. That is why you change it to one of the other options, either Download and notify you of updates available or just notify you that here are updates to download (or you can turn it off completely). Problem solved.
Actually, when you install Win2003 (at least R2) it will pop up a screen at first boot asking you to 1. Update the computer and 2. Configure automatic updates.
Q.
It's been completely solid for reliability. Its light weight and built in WiFi and Bluetooth makes it a snap to move around. The new Mac Mini coming in May will have better 3D graphics but I don't play games so it is fine as is. The mac mini works fine with the 23" Apple Cinema HD display, etc.
The bottom line for Apple stuff is that "It Just Works." No fiddling with stuff. Gamers need the Mac Pro with high-end graphics but unless you need that kind of graphics the Macbook or Mac Mini will easily transition you from Windows to Mac OS.
The commercial software is out there for the Mac - MS Office on the Mac works just like Windows. I've been told that Microsoft Office was originally a Macintosh product that was ported to Windows - whatever the case it has been around a very long time and looks identical to the Windows versions.
I work from home a lot so the Mac's VPN client works great with MS Remote Desktop, my old HP LJ4+ printer works great, even my microsoft keyboards and mice work fine although I now use a bluetooth Apple Mighty Mouse and wireless keyboard.
I have no reason to go back to Windows at home. At work I have to use it because some of the business applications require it, but I don't want the hassle of patching Windows all the time. People who don't preoccupy themselves with patching their Windows machines ultimately wind up with spyware (or worse) and a slow, clunky desktop machine (my parents suffer this today).
With the Mac OS I get kick ass software to manage my digital photos, make DVDs, good mail program and good web browser. All of this with a completely unintrusive patching process that takes care of things. I'm too busy to waste time with Windows' patch hell.
Small business owners should take heed - did you budget for having to replace nearly all of your existing computer hardware to run Vista?
I don't have a single authoritative explanation for you, but this page has some good tips.
Historically, the old FindFast service (now called Indexing Service) was horribly buggy and made Windows PCs run very slow. As a result, standard practice was to disable it (as noted here). I can't say for certain if the same problem exists in Win2K or WinXP, but I still tend to disable the Indexing Service out of habit/superstition.
Yeah, it's a stupid idea. Here's what I should have said: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555444 Also, does your machine directly download updates, or does one of your companies servers hold them? Preventing IE7 from entering the update queue shouldn't be up to the user and patches should be approved before sending out.
http://themak.org
Thanks for replying, and so fast, From what I've seen the Mac OS seems to be generally ready to handle almost anything you want to do with it. I use gmail so I don't worry about a email clint, The whole I-Life thing seems to work very well, I think thats what most people need is audio video programs that are built in and just work, and work together,, and not have to mess with different programs to different things, that not even counting the patching and viruses and adware. More arguments for Mac...LOL
Please read mu blog for my views on Technology and Tech; http://kennethlawson.blogspot.com/
Of course that machine is a HP Kayak XA - 400MHz PII - 128MB RAM - 8GB HDD
What? ®
...assume you don't have RAID Or, more to the point, they assume that if you do have RAID you don't want an "easy" installer. That does suck, though, and hopefully you can file a bug report about it. Then again, installing Windows on a RAID device can be a real pain, too. RAID is not easy...
All's true that is mistrusted
Donate to the ReactOS team. The sooner those of us tied to Windows apps can go the most open-source route possible, with the least hassle (that'll be ReactOS - WINE isn't good enough), the better.
same one-liner for XP:
/detectnow
wuauclt
Any Operating System will force you to reboot when the system itself has been patched. You'll never get away from that with current technology.
Debian doesn't.
(and of course that includes debian derivatives such as Ubuntu)
We live, as we dream -- alone....
The MacMini may be the most underrated personal computer on the market today. It is no slouch and minimal in cost @ its $599 price point for all typical uses.
Average everyday computer uses on a MacMini is just plain easy, no hassle computing. I already had a couple extra keyboards, LCDs, so whether I want to use the 14" 1024 or the 23" 1920 & wired or BT keyboards.
A big reason Windows users don't want to upgrade or reinstall (& thus tolerate crap & corruption way too long), is that they know the hell they will go through in time and aggravation to deal with making Windows run.
Anyone buying up to a MacMini has no hassle system & gets to work in minutes, and updates from Apple have been as close to flawless and trivial for the user as they can be.
Time is the one thing you can't recover. Consumers are increasingly aware of this.
I agree that a PRE-INSTALLED Linux machine wouldn't be that hard. A Windows user would have a learning curve, but Windows isn't really that intuitive either. The problem is, very few machines ARE pre-installed with Linux. To use Linux, you HAVE to install it (or get your geek nephew-in-law to do it), whereas Windows just comes with your box.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
I just built myself a new PC in February. I thought I was smart.
Intel DP965LT mother board
Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8GHz 800MHz FSB 2MB L2 Cache
2GB 800MHz DDR2 RAM
Maxtor 400GB SATA HDD
I started to install Fedora Core 6 and it wouldn't even boot! OH NO! 8^O
I downloaded Core 7 Test 1 and it installed just fine. I have been running with that ever since without any major problems. Life should get even better when most of the devel bugs are fixed FC7 is officially released. You may just need a newer kernel to use Linux.
What? ®
And many people don't know how many large global corporations used to have HP-UX desktop workstations and no PC's. Nor do they know how many large global corporations JUST switched to XP this year.... and will likely NEVER switch to Vista.
Assuming the parent poster is not lying, then it's interesting to hear that Linux (etc.) is becoming part of the general mindset in the younger generations. Surely the more exposure kids get to Open Source alternatives, the better. Get them while they're young, you know.
People cried doom and destruction when windows 98 was on it's way out, and then again when windows 2000 was pushed away, and now we're seeing it again. The end result, I predict, is that the world will continue to turn, people will still have babies, buy gas guzzling SUVs and pay their rising taxes.
This is not the end of the world.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
... not enough of you are beta testing Vista and they need more
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
If you get stuck in that situation, just stop the automatic updates service
this is what you can do.
When you're emboldened by the fact that the Bush administration folded the royal flush they had against you, this is what you can and will do.
In other words, when you have no competition and the government's antitrust function has been neutered, you can force people to use a technologically inferior and more expensive product that they otherwise wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole.
Innovative? Orwellian, that.
But for the love of mike, please stop crapping on the one shining spot here, the B&MG Foundation. They are doing a helluva job, one that nobody was doing before they came along. You do your cause no justice by slamming them too.
For the record, I do NOT get a dime from BG or his minions ... I use some of the products he sells, and have to support a bunch more of them, but I don't give a d@mn which OS/Office Suite/Mail program/whatever you want to use. I just like to keep the invective focused on the real problem, not the whole d@mn area.
Hmmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
I don't know, why should we? Sheer bloody ignorance, perhaps?
If you had ever read the docs for Wine you would know that you have the option to use the Linux-native API, install a subset of Windows DLLs or install a full working copy of Windows under Wine. Only the first option is legal without a Windows license.
Hello? Do you know how to read? Apple II's were available for almost another decade...that's more than enough heads up that a transition was necessary if they wanted it to run on future hardware. Backwards compatibility is great, so long as it doesn't become a ball and chain on future progress.
Well, if you were his girlfriend, you'd want to know of he had violated Eula wouldn't you? That goes a bit beyond your basic cheating sort of thing.
Man is the lowest-cost, 150-pound, nonlinear, all-purpose computer system which can be mass-produced by unskilled labor.
If I had my choice, I'd still be using 2000. I had to upgrade because of my work. When I get a new machine, if I'm still in the software business, I suspect I'll switch to ReactOS if it'll support everything I need. I assume that by the time I need a new machine, ReactOS will be in beta, at least and that'll be good enough for me. I have no intention of inflicting Vista on myself.
You can switch it to "download but let me choose when to install" or "notify me but don't automatically download". Or alternately turn it off for when you want to run something overnight.
I've never lost data due to an auto reboot. I run it with the "download but let me choose when to install" option.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Whatever. I didn't pay for my last copy of Windows XP, and if I need another one, I certainly won't be paying for that, either.
I'd imagine that Microsoft doesn't have a whole lot of control over the distribution channels I frequent.
Do you have a good replacement for Exchange and active directory that provides the same functionality?
One big area would be in support for smart phones and PDAs. There are server components that integrate with Exchange that do over air synchronization of Exchange mailboxes (email, contacts, calendar) for Palm OS, Blackberry and Windows Mobile. Can you synchronize all of these over air to the same email box under a Linux solution? The smart phone/PDA issue is a real thorn in my side but corporate management demands it.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Right-click? I know OSX supports two-button mice, but it doesn't come with them, right?
There is a rule the CEO's follow:
"Make the decesion right."
So they don't want to be seen as wasting money(stock hit) so they are going to us all there resources to see Vista is what people buy. There are no garantess, and if there is a high demand for XP, MS may change their minds. Especially if OS X begins to garner more market share then they currently have.
I would wager that if Apple released a OS X version for the PC, MS would have some real problems ahead.
I understand why Apple isn't diong that, and whether or not they should do it.
I also understrand that they could deal with all the issues they have with making a PC version.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Just issue specs to the top PC builders and call them official, don't warrenty anything else.
However, this would involve changing Apple a lot. Becoming a software company is different then writing software that runs your hardware.
If this meant Apple became more software focused, then I would not like to see them selling just OS X.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Key points are:
Ease of installation. Windows requires constant attention, Ubuntu does not. Windows asks questions about partitioning but gives you no clue as to what's a useful choice, Ubuntu provides clear examples of who should use which option. Windows usually doesn't even have drivers installed on a fresh install -- and I'm talking things like ethernet controllers and VGA adapters.
What you get on a fresh install. Windows comes with, well, almost nothing. Wordpad and a shitty browser and an even shitter media player. Ubuntu comes with virtually everything the average user would ever want.
Ease of use. Subjective area, but at least in Gnome, the applications menu is neat, clean, and organized in a straightforward, logical manner. Contrast with the average user's Windows install where the Start Menu is three columns wide and everything makes its own little subfolder according to no plan at all -- sometimes the title of the app, sometimes the name of the software developer, or who fucking knows.
Installation of new things. Windows, you have to go find yourself (your mom can't do this), buy a CD (time consuming and expensive), and then wade through annoying "Setup Wizards" which nag you endlessly about where to install (like your mom knows?), EULAs, and usually all kinds of options Your Mom doesn't understand. God alone knows where it will install (Program Files? Root of C;? None of the above?), and it will leave fifty shortcuts all over the place, and probably in the systray. Contrast with Ubuntu's one-stop-shop of Synaptic, where you just check some boxes, hit "Apply", and it automatically installs, including dependencies needed, and places it in the logical menus. No screwing around.
mirrorshades radio -- darkwave, industrial, futurepop, ebm.
"You can never "master" anything before it is obsolete and time to move on."
wrong. Just ebcause ther is new stuff, doesn't mean the previous stuff is obsolete, or that mastering it is a dead end.
Personally, I just put regular hours and benefits at the top of my want list for my career.
I got those, but I had to do away with right this minute bleeding edge work, and I ahve to tkae home less money when calculated before benefits. Calculating benefits in I make more.
You want to settle down? buy a house, get a regular working job.
Yes, I work for the government. No, they aren't a bunch of slack jaws. In fact most people gt more work done in 40 hours then people in the private sector get done in 60.
I got tired of woreking 60-80 hours for the prividege of being cut when is might save a nickle.
The last straw was when I had finished more assignments in my 1 year, then the other person had in five and being cut loose because I made 15% more.
Yes, it still pisses me off, but only because it was then I relized that company loyalty was a one sided deal.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
On laptops you have to either hold ctrl or keep two fingers on the trackpad while clicking to get the same effect. Before you call this ugly, I would like to say that I find the two-finger method much more comfortable than having to move my thumb to right-click when using the trackpad on a made-for-Windows laptop. That said, I use a Logitech mouse with my MacBook.
To come slightly back on topic, one thing I dislike most about XP is the N A G G I N G. I *know* I don't have a firewall active; I'm behind a university-wide firewall! I *know* I don't have anti-virus installed; I'm careful enough not to need it. And what's with the Autoplay dialog popping up searching my 500 GB FireWire drive for media to play every time I connect it (and the "do this every time" option is greyed out)? And why does it take 5 minutes to install drivers every time I connect a different mouse to the computer? Simple peripherals, such as mice, keyboards, external harddrives, printers and the like should just work when you connect them to the computer. Why does Windows XP, which is supposed to have such great hardware support, fail at this? Is Vista better perhaps?
Lalala
I expect to have to learn a bunch of new techniques, because that's what happens every time my customers get new software. I'm not going out of my way to buy a copy of VIsta for my own yet, but will probably get it on my next new system ... just like I got XP. I got a jump on the learning process by purchasing the Vista in a Nutshell and Vista - the Missing Manual books. If you've got the smarts to figure out OS X or $YOUR_FAVORITE_FLAVOUR_OF_LINUX then you can figure out Vista. Man up already!
Posted anonymously because you did first ... and because I like my karma the way it is ...
So I wasn't imagining things! Twice in the last couple of weeks my XP machine has rebooted itself after updating, and I would have sworn I never told it to do so, since I had a lot of stuff open (although none of it was in the same class as an unsaved document - it was mostly a lot of documentation and reports I had open. I was pissed, because it took a while to get everything arranged exactly as I wanted it.
Fucking idiots. God, how I hate microsoft.
I wish I could get paid to moderate down any negative statements about Bill Gates.
It's got to be easier than my real job. All I have to do is discard my attachment to the truth.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Updating using Ubuntu Edgy is even easier than Windows. A small notification appears in the upper left saying that updates are available, you click update, and everything is done for you. And updating with the packaging format used by Linux is much easier - each package can be updated individually.
Windows 2000 was made unavailable after 4 years (March 31, 2004) While XP will have been riding for more than 6 years. See the link for more info. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default .mspx
--
What is pirate software? Software for inventory of stolen treasure?
> You: NOOOOOO!
I'm pretty sure that should be:
You: DO NOT WANT!
There's a nifty trick I've been using for a while to get rid of the reboot pestering.
At Sysinternals (now owned by Microsoft) get the program called Process Explorer.
Use Process Explorer to suspend the execution of the windows update process, "wuauclt.exe." Don't kill it because it will just be respawned. There are two of these processes for some reason and you need to suspend both of them. (If you only see one, suspend it and wait for the other one to spawn. Oh, it will. )
When both of the processes are suspended, they won't bug you at all and you are free to finish the day (or whatever you're doing) before shutting down.
I think the idea that your OS could shut down (on purpose!) without asking is a terrible design decision.
Software are not cars. What you are arguing is that when a car model goes out of sale as the new one is available, the manufacturer either continue selling it against their will, or release their IP so others can build that model, also against their will. It is not the consumers right to purchase an end-of-lifed product.
XP will no longer be sold by OEMs, but will still be supported on existing installations, or new ones where the user had a valid license, etc.
In the automotive world, no one get up in arms that you can't be a last generation BMW anymore as the new generation is the current line, so why should it be any different for software? It's not like support is ending, just OEM installations.
The major movie distributors know you want to be able to watch your DVDs on your laptops, and folks like Dell, etc., need that capability out of the box. However, Vista is the only PC OS that will provide them the security they think they need for you to play their HD DVDs on your computer (or at least, that's the idea, anyway). By pressuring Microsoft to phase XP out in favor of Vista quickly, they can be "justified" in saying that you must upgrade to Vista to watch commercial HD DVDs on your computer. It may be seen as a "win-win" between Microsoft and the movie distributors as both see the opportunity to sell a bunch of new product in the process.
Now whether or not they can actually get away with it, or if it will actually work, is another question. Existing laptops will have to upgrade their hardware DVD drive as well, providing they otherwise have the horsepower to run Vista. The barrier to entry of HD media on existing laptops is somewhat more than just Vista as well-- as they won't have HDMI outs... Noone would buy HD DVDs to run on a laptop that will show them in non-HD because they don't have the "approved" DRM hooks to play it full rez...
Microsoft has a long history of significant bloat at each new release of their OS. The hardware vendors love this though (and are Microsoft's biggest market), as it allows them to sell more memory, bigger drives and entire new computers. The Apple model of "to upgrade, throw away the old one and buy a new one" is the wet dream of all PC vendors, and Microsoft has always been perfectly willing to help in that regard.
But for me, XP will be the last OS I purchase from Microsoft, whether directly or supplied with the hardware. In my book, Vista has nothing to offer except backward compatibility at an increased cost-- and there's lots of cheaper alternatives out there for that. Vista may be more secure than XP, but a Microsoft "scorched earth policy" will send me off in search of one of the less restrictive alternatives.
This will simply help the corporate computer "consumers" to realize that the OS is far too important to their business to leave in the hands (and the conflict of interest) of desperate market protecting dinosaurs. The OS is essentially an application delivery system, and as such must ultimately attain common-carrier status. Microsoft is the Carnegie of our time, but now it is time to transition to new forms of transportation.
>the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is not about helping people.
>Period, the end. It's about power.
Bill gates is not the anti christ, deal with it. He's contributed far more to the betterment of this world than you have, or ever could, or ever tried to. Dick.
Just because someone made some software you don't like doesn't make them a bad person, and doesn't negate all of the good things they've done.
>Did you get paid to prop up Mr. Gates, or are you just easily led?
Do even you really believe what your write? Stop being so fucking paranoid and deal with he real world.
don't forget UPDATES ARE AVAILABLE the installshield update manager, which will helpfully annoy the shit out of you UPDATES ARE AVAILABLE each time an update is available for the totally fucking crappy version UPDATES ARE AVAILABLE of roxio you just got on your new dell, as well as when there are updates to the installshield update manager UPDATES ARE AVAILABLE. I'm not kidding.
Clearly it works.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
seveas had flash9 within days of them releasing the beta. The kids were using a lot of flash sites that just didn't work with the official flash7 plugin at the time. I guess the official repos have flash9 now, but there's still a lot of other stuff in seveas that they don't have.
....
Anyhow, when fiesty comes out this all changes:
"You need flash to view this website. Click OK and enter your password to have it installed for you"
Same for java, media plugins, nvidia binaries
Hey, I still want someone to package up google earth and second life though.
455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
You have brought up at least one point that been barely touched on so far:, DRM . DRM is the bane of the digital medias gurus existence. I could go on about copying lps to cassette the first time I played it, I'm not the only one who did this. Back then, if you copy it to the media you could play it. now cds have rootkits, A'La Sony, and Movies have their own coding and region codes to boot. My feeling is the DRM will only get worst over the next few years. The manufactures and Govement have bowed to the media makers, studios and distributors and included so much stuff its a wonder they even work.! Apple just anouced the they're now selling DRM-free Music for more money.! I waiting for my DVR to have restrictions on how long I can keep something my my hard drive , and who knows what else. I tend to agree that early phasing out of XP is a way to get folks to move to vista and all its drm stuff to be able to play HD Content. I would love a set-top DVD Burner the had a HDMI Imput to record HD straight from a HD reciver, that would be cool, But it'll never happen. at least I doubt it. The only platform that is user frendly at more then XP is now and probably way better the Vistra could ever be is MAC. They got a lot right with the I-Life suite of tools, and followed the path that Windows should have, But I think its too late.
Please read mu blog for my views on Technology and Tech; http://kennethlawson.blogspot.com/
What about retail version since it specifically says OEM?
Is it gone already? Will it be around past end of year?
Or do i need to get our company an ebay id?
I will never buy another windows product ever. My company runs on linux now. I put a blank computer in front of new employee pu linux on this machine by noon and get to work you hired. fail to d/l and install your looking elseware.pun.
Forcing new PCs to be Vista is a bad joke. It is still less secure than XP and all but a sellect few changes can be downloaded to XP for free.
Check out http://www.soft32.com/Download/Free/Windows_Vista_ Transformation_Pack/4-3720-1.html for a free Vista conversion kit that still leaves the more secure XP foundation.
With the growing move to Linux (i prefer Ubuntu) this might be just the push to increase the Linux base out there.
After all Microsoft OS'es are still to most insecure in the world. Maybe thats why over 60 countrys have past laws making it a felony in some to put a Microsoft PC on there secure government networks.
That said Linux is secure, has VERY FEW viruses and can do virtually everything the Microsft OS can do, and its FREE to boot.(sorry about the pun)
There is also the second costs to consider, software like Acrobat, Photoshop, MS Office, etc... can quickly run you int the thousands of dollars were the equivalants under Linux are FREE.
That said there are serious reasons to consider Linux as a replacement to Microsoft. Just follow the news feeds, Schools and even countrys are abandoning Microsoft over Linux almost every day now.
Linux is still far more secure than Microsoft, maybe that is why over 62 countrys have laws forbiding Microsoft OSes on their secure government networks, in some it is even a felony with manditory jail time of upto 7 years.
Not that many years ago, job hunters would be asked their proficancies in Windows, often being the deciding factor in getting hired.
I expect in the not too distant furure, the same questions regaurding Linux will or will not get you the job.
That said you should give Linux a serious try, you might be suprized.
If knoppix runs, try the "stable" or later versions of Debian (or the Ubuntu equivalent, Edgy, I suppose). It uses the same video detection software... that's how I got my nvidia card running on Linux... it worked every time on Knoppix and despite weeks on nvidia and Fedora forums... it NEVER worked in FC6. Luckily, somebody told me "try Debian" and... it worked the first time and works every time as long as the current nvidia driver is in the kernel. If it isn't, i.e. you just got dumped to a terminal window instead of booting into X, do:
# aptitude search nvidia
# aptitude install [name of new nvidia version matching your kernel] startx (or reboot)
Tech Public Policy stuff
I'm not running firewall or AV software on my linux box, it simply doesn't need it.
Oh please say you're joking...
I'm a huge fan of linux too, (running gentoo at home 24/7) but I'm not dumb enough to leave my whole system exposed to the outside world.
I mean, yeah it's easy enough to say that your box is invulerable but really it's not. you've definitely got cups on port 631 and maybe apache on 80 or 8080 and maybe vnc server on 5900 and maybe openssh on 21. Any of those could have buffer overflows. Seriously, firewall everything but the ports you absolutely must expose (openssh on a non-standard port comes to mind and apache of course).
Cheers
Ben
If you've got people computer-savvy enough to get onto an irc server (they still have those?) but who are all asking the same "mundane, spoon-feed" FAQs, then that would seem to be overwhelmingly indicative of Ubuntu's functional shortcomings. Like Steve Jobs says, if something doesn't work exactly the way you expect it to then it is essentially broken. Sounds to me like Ubuntu fails that test pretty hard if an obscure chat room on a hopelessly outdated IM system is "drowned" with the same basic questions. Of course this point would be moot if Ubuntu was like other specialized Linux distros, but it isn't. Ubuntu's stated primary mission is to provide a user friendly, easy to install, hands-off Linux desktop environment that offers a genuine alternative to MS Windows for the mass-market computer user. Sounds to me like they have a long way go, and my guess is that the attitude of 7EET H4x0rz like yourself is much more of a hindrance than a help.
A-Bomb
That's only fair if you knew back in 1984 that Apple was going to eventually discontinue the Apple II, with no compatible upgrade path. Realistically, the two lines had coexisted for a long time, and the writing on the wall really didn't appear until 1992 when Apple killed off the IIgs with no replacement. Only a year later, the IIe was discontinued leaving the Apple II crowd S.O.L., with only a 1-2 years or so to prepare, depending on how closely you were paying attention to what Apple was up to.
Alternatively, those machines could simply not be on the internet, or firewalled off from Microsoft's servers. Unlike Vista, Windows XP will continue to work just fine (once activated) forever, even if you deny it access to the mothership.
As long as I can run Warcraft 3 from Ubuntu, I don't think the future will be so bad...
[o]_O
I bet that if you look around hard enough, you could find companies to offer support for FC3.
It's probably not worth it for Redhat anymore though...
I guess MS is such a huge company that support for XP is rapidly not becoming worth it either...
Ben
The best thing to do when getting a new system is to make sure everything in it is compatible with your Linux distro of choice BEFORE you buy... check by motherboard, audio, video chipsets... make sure someone actually got it working before buying it. IOW, exactly what one has to do with Vista.
If you've already got a box, simply download the LiveCD for your video, plug it in, if it runs, the hardware is compatible. If it doesn't run... you're probably better off trying a different distro liveCD and install whatever distro works best with your box.
Tech Public Policy stuff
I know a number of people who were going to buy Dells but instead went to a custom PC store because they couldn't get Windows XP from Dell.
Read my short stories - You won't regret it.
...and by "system", that's what I meant.
However, like I said, Apple has apparently hooked QT closely enough into the system that it wants a reboot. Yes, that's irritating... however, that doesn't happen very often with Mac OS X, either. Apple updates things several times a year with "security updates", and mostly, those need a reboot - but not always, depending on what's getting updated. Software updates, to iWork or iLife apps don't.
"Money is truthful. If a man speaks of his honor, make him pay cash." Notebooks of Lazarus Long, Robert A. Heinlein
Micro$oft, instead of addressing what the consumer wants are using their monopolistic position in the industry to try and create another monopoly. By providing DRM for "premium content", they are essentially changing the game so that they have control over what users may or may not view, therefore controlling the PC as a distribution channel for such content. Their goal is to have the ability to control hardware manufacturers and content providers, which is what the DRM does.
Another conspiracy theory is that they are doing this because of the DoD's involvement with Vista. Theoretically, the US could ask M$ to disable all PC's with a certain IP range, and whoever was in that range would be powerless to stop them, giving the US governement even more power to cripple the economy and infrastructure of enemy nations. It's just that by tying it up under the DRM label, it's disguised from Joe User (hiding one evil with another, more controversial evil).
Original poster here. Just because I work for a government healthcare provider doesn't mean I or other people in my department have access to any confidential patient information. We have a seperate telnet program that is run in another state that has some secure link to access all of that data. Most people here (finance, office admin etc.) don't deal with patient data at all. We have a lot of labs that research things like viruses and bacteria. Also a biology lab that takes DNA from sexual assault cases etc and analyses that information. XP is the standard here. It has been secured and is passed down through to us by corporate office. Every workstation on the network has internet access but not everyone has access to get out through the proxy server.
While the parent thread is embarrassing, I guess I made the point. I think that being well versed in this sort of thing is becoming more attractive to younger people, and any stigma associated with being a geek is dying off.
However, that's just what I alone have seen in my high school, so I can't say if that's a widespread trend or something more isolated. I'd like to hear more of what others have to say on this.
XaNk: now I remember why I hated the girls in high school
XaNk: because none of them would talk to me
You need a competent Windows admin. We run a mixed environment as well with Linux, FreeBSD, Windows and Macs - both servers and clients. Everybody plays nicely on the network. We did used to have a problem with Windows computers getting messed up. Now we remove admin access from all employees and keep odd (particularly non-work related) software off of the computers). We use the free Windows Update Services to keep the machines patched. Our incidents of crapped out Windows boxes have dropped to practically none. Our support incidents are evenly split between Macs and Windows.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
the only good you'll ever do this world is by leaving it. Microsoft fanboys are oxygen theives, deal.
Tech Public Policy stuff
The last time I dealt with Linux on the desktop was with Ubuntu (5.1 or something).
Patching constituted of downloading the "whole" binary for the package and it took ridiculous times. A "couple" of open office patches in a couple of weeks (>100MB) drove me up a wall.
Is that problem specific to Ubuntu (/debian)? Has it been solved yet? (Genuinely asking).
Yeah, well... news flash for anal IT nazis-- lots of folks-- particularly outside the USA-- are using NON-Microshit operating systems and doing quite well. My own opinion is Microsoft is now irrelevant, they just haven't figured it out yet. The bigger they are, the harder they fall. If they aren't using MS software, Microsoft can't shut 'em down. So ultimately it might work ONCE and then the bad guys will catch on that they shouldn't be using Microsoft and turn to other alternatives.
Once is all that the US government may need to win a war.
Err... this is all running behind the firewall in my home router, so 5900 isn't open, 21 might be but I doubt it, and Apache definately isn't running.
:)
Yeah, I maybe do assume linux is secure without really checking, but that box has been running for months with no problems at all. The real point is that I couldn't do this with windows. Even behind my routers basic firewall I wouldn't trust a windows box for more than 30 minutes. Hell, I even have to download the patches for windows on a separate pc and install them offline because it's not possible to secure a new windows install faster than it gets hacked!
So yeah, good point, but I think I'm still safe
You can work around that, and do a "force quit" on the software update program. That works, and gets it out of the way and is good when something like quicktime got updated and wants to reboot your whole system...
Also, if you kill the warning message like this it won't come back to annoy you again like the windows one does. Similarly if your switching between multiple users on the system, it won't irritate any of the others.
On the other hand, OSX doesnt force you to update, you can delay the updates until your ready to reboot. Also, after installing some of the more major updates the system can sometimes end up a little screwy until it's rebooted.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
the Nvidia video driver on Debian Etch runs my Geforce6100 AM2 Biostar motherboard just fine. Audio, etc. work just fine, too.
Tech Public Policy stuff
a drive, the easiest way to ensure this is simply make sure it's unplugged when you install, you can mount the other drives as data drives if you need to later... or don't.
I found that I didn't have to dual boot, I don't do heavy gaming, so running VMware Server and a Windows VM handled my Windows needs. My guess is that you do and that's why you're running a dual-drive RAID config, so this solution probably doesn't fit your needs.
With VMware Server/Windows running on a Linux host, if I want to install another distro on its own drive or run a Windows native disk, I unplug the main drive and install the default configuration, letting the installer figure out where to install; I change boot drives at the BIOS.
Though I do it that way because I very rarely have the need to change OSs and generally don't even have a drive installed for this purpose, if I had to do it frequently in a normal dual-boot setup, I'd do the obvious and modify the GRUB config file.
Assuming your Windows RAID isn't FUBAR, I'd simply unplug the RAID drives and let Ubuntu find and install to the 250G drive... whether you want to change boot in BIOS, boot by default to put a bootloader on the Windows MBR or boot by default to Linux and modify GRUB to handle dual boot is up to you.
Good luck, and do a complete backup first.
Tech Public Policy stuff
If you're a Windows fanboy who think that USB problems mean Linux is inferior, how well does any Windows work with USB-connected drivers that don't exist? Most Linux drivers these days are reverse-engineered. A lot of Vista premature adopters are finding out what it's like to get into an environment where the drivers aren't there right now, and they don't have an OpenSource community that's going to reverse-engineer drivers.
... it's a trifle horrible.
It's like anything else Linux, if the drivers are there, there usually is no problem. This stuff has drastically improved in the last couple of years.
It used to be a bear to configure a PalmPDA... now, if you've got the software installed (JPilot or Kpilot)... you'll see a config window come up as soon as you have the program and the Palm running at the same time.
Cameras used to be a hassle. Now install Digikam and if it doesn't find the camera without help, go through a menu and hope to find a entry matching your camera. Generic mass USB storage cameras are no longer a problem. You don't even need camera software, just plug it in and wait for the prompt offering to let you open the camera's flash as a directory. A couple of years ago, I was running scripts or mounting the camera by hand.
Printers are no problem as long as CUPS has a matching driver. Just run the Add New Hardware wizard... the bad news here is that there are many printers whose drivers are not available by default, some of which have vendor supported or Turboprint-supported.
Scanners? No problem if there's a driver, you don't even have to unplug/plug them so xsane or kooka or whatever can find them. Just run your scanner program and let the software find it for you.
UPS? It's possible, but
Webcams/videoconferencing? Ask me in a few weeks, I've got an article assignment to write a how-to on the subject.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Yeah right. George W. is Al Queada's secret weapon.
To Slashdot: can we get moderation -1 immature comment? I'd apply that a lot today on this story... Bashing Bill Gates as +1 informative where there's little information in there, and a lot of other crap got +4 or +5 today.
Yesterday was the time to do it right. Are we having a REVOLUTION yet?
To paraphrase an old campaign slogan: It's the GUI Stupid! :-)
If you run taskmaster and then start a program you can see the cpu resources used when loading the application in the performance tab. You may want to change the view->update speed->high.
Taskmaster does use cpu and I/O resources too, so running it in several speeds will give you an average, or a good idea of what work is involved in finding, loading, and initializing an application, keeping in mind that the applications can specify other pieces-parts (DLLs, files,...) that it may require at loading...
Now do it again, only just start the command shell. I have it in an icon, but you can start it with Start->run, enter command.com, or go through the menus Start->all Programs->Accessories->Command Prompt.
Loading and opening a window for the Command Prompt is the minimum, as far as resources required, to start an application. Other applications require resources, which causes Windows to fetch/load them, as well as any of its own supporting software if required. Daunting isn't it?
It's been a long time, and I'm not using anything but Solaris and CDE, but it's pretty snappy running GUI applications-excepting some of the JAVA stuff.
Solaris and the flavors of Linux are OSs with Xwindows hosting a GUI shell. The choice of GUI will determine the extra overhead in response time to GUI events. Windows (XP,...) are GUI OSs with more "crap" (overhead)than any of the Solaris/Linux GUIs, which is why it appears so slow, and why it will not get any better in the near future (IMHO). AERO? may be an attempt by M$ to add a different GUI, but on top of the (flawed) GUI OS, not as a replacement...YET?
I'm sure others can expand on this, I don't normally get too caught up in development, but I have used M$ and Solaris, and the tools in Windows CAN produce a lot of interpreted code, or JIT compiling at execution time.
My experience is dated, but I think it's gotten worse...
Former geek, now I can rest...
http://digg.com/hardware/AMD_embraces_DRM
Actually there was the Apple IIe Card released for the Macintosh LC family of computers. It worked fairly well, but as IIgs owner I was very disappointed to learn that they were not releasing a IIgs version of the card so I could carry over my IIgs software to my Mac. However, I must add that anyone who felt left in a lurch when the Apple II was discontinued must have had their head in sand.. The writing was clearly on the wall for a long time... Around 1990, when Apple was releasing annual updates for the Mac line, and the IIgs was already 4 years old and stagnant (there were a couple of minor revisions) with no major upgrades that were very much in demand - like internal an hard drive, it was very apparent that the II line was dead from a development standpoint. For mroe info on that compatability card see Wikipedia article.
--Aaron Greenberg
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
Vista does not sound a turn-on by most accounts. But this pumping up of Linux is just as bad. Linux is not an OS for anybody who is not a computer geek or does not have access to good support. I've had a Linux geek around demoing his Linux and watched 2 hours of "OK, all we got to do is .... No hang on ... Now I remember ... Ah right. OK. Well maybe this'll work. Alright, just give me time". I left him to it. He got there - eventually.
I also got Ubuntu which was free and just as well because it was total crap. Brand new from certified CD and full of niggles - requiring to be adjusted and consuming hours of time.
Linux is grossly overrated; as you would expect from being put together by a bunch of hackers some of whom have no formal training in programming. For years it was simply abysmal and just as bad as the worst Microsoft release. Linux is now better but by no means justifies the ridiculous self-inflated claims made for it. And any criticism of it is met by a barrage of abuse by open source acolytes.
As for this 'Bill Gates is evil' stuff and comparing him to Hitler and Pol Pot - simply juvenile.
Linux is free if your time is worth nothing. I prefer XP.
Take a look at my how-to article on setting up a Windows VM on VMware Server over a Linux host. Setting up VMware Server over Linux actually is pretty easy... the hard part is optimizing it to get full speed out of it and to make it possible for Windows and Linux to share a chunk of file system. More accurately, the hard part is finding out what you need to know to make everything work. That's what my article does.
Tech Public Policy stuff
When I heard healthcare I immediately thought about patients not admin, finance, or labs. But where there is one 'standard' there is usually the same throughout. So I suspect XP is running for patient data access too. And I hope you are not telnet'ing over the Internet to that other box instead of ssh'ing into it or its LAN and THEN telnet'ing around. Or VPN'ing.
;-/
"secured" you say? I've heard that before. Heck, I've heard American Express say that their MS Windows XP systems were secured and that's why they run MS Internet Explorer on customer support desktops for both customer account access AND internet access. Ofcourse they said this during the 3 months it was a security sinkhole from an unpatched flaw( WMF maybe ). And then a few months later American Express, CNN, and some local government computers were down because an installed bot network program went bad. And nobody brought up the point that had the flaw in the software not caused cyclic rebooting, they wouldn't have known they were owned. Secured, ahuh. Right. Don't be so sure.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Or do people need to break out the cracks?
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
"Linux distros are MUCH easier to patch because"
Not last time a normal person checked.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
"I can't freakin' believe that an OS can force a mandatory reboot unless I answer a prompt within a set time period."
No, they are clearly idiots.
But then so are you if you use automatic updates.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Did M$ not get the hint that Vista wasn't ready for launch when it was 4 years late?! I work for Acer computers and about 85% or more of our sales are laptops. Our number 1 problem? Vista won't communicate with some routers, or drops connections to wireless routers all the time. The damn things don't work right half the time. However, you can wipe it and load XPPro or Home or MCE on it, get the drivers for that system, and its wonderful. Granted when you work tech support, you hear only the bad stuff, but this is rediculous. I constantly have customers asking for help or at least links to XP drivers after they have reformatted and loaded an XP install. Microsoft not only needs to let companies continue to load XP as OEM, but also be willing to support it. Acer's agreement with M$ is that we do not support their piece of shit (it'd be nice if it was actually worded that way!), but they insist that the registration problems with product keys our OUR problem when Acer can't issue those keys any more than Linus does it. I'm not a Linux guy (only because I haven't sat down with it yet really) but as soon as I can get my wireless to work with it I'll have a dual boot. And Satan will be seen building a snow man before that damn "piece of Vista" makes its way into my house!
You forgot: THERE ARE UNUSED ICONS ON YOUR DESKTOP!!1!
posting the rest to defeat the lamness filter because it is lame.
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
I would probably have listed them differently, but that is just a difference of opinion between you and myself and other people. It is true that Microsoft knows how to make and sell operating systems, but really Vista is a mess. And Linux is still used, secure, reliable and all sorts of other stuff, it is just a bit harder for most people (for one thing there are so many distributions to choose from), still many people use it. You forgot Windows ME. Windows ME belongs to the worst quality/stability/security list. Win3.1 and DOS are very old and not used anymore. But software is still written for DOS, and they will run in Windows XP as well. And Linux, if you have a DOS emulator on Linux. Even Windows software can run on Linux.