Slashdot Mirror
Ubuntu Feisty Fawn Released
Lots of readers told us about the official release of Ubuntu 7.04 Feisty Fawn (screenshots here for Ubuntu and Kubuntu). Some readers report that the distribution servers are being hammered. Here is a review of Feisty Fawn. Reader LinuxScribe sends us to LinuxPlanet for the story on a pleasant Java surprise in the release.
Here is a quick mirror: (ftp also works) http://ftp.ussg.indiana.edu/linux/ubuntu-releases/ 7.04/ maintained by http://www.ussg.iu.edu
:)
Go ahead, take our bandwidth
Does that mean they removed it?
Don't bother with the official sites - I think they must be running Ubuntu Sluggish Slug Server Edition! Kidding aside, there are a myriad of torrent options.
Our good friend Don Imus has some suggestions for future Ubuntu releases.
Angy Akata
Busty Beaner
Crackhead Coon
Ditzy Darkie
Eerie Earfucker
Fisting Feminazi
Grubby Goombah
Horny Ho
Irate Inky
Jumping Jigabo
Kinky Kike
Lame Limey
Morose Moolie
Nappy Nigger
Obscene Oreo
Puny Popolo
Quiet Queer
Reeking Rafter
Sleazy Spic
Tipsy Tranny
Ugly UncleTom
Venomous Velcrohead
Wretched Whigger
Xenophobic Xena
Yellow Yenta
Zany Zebra
This is just some random text to avoid the lameness filter. This is just some random text to avoid the lameness filter. This is just some random text to avoid the lameness filter. This is just some random text to avoid the lameness filter. This is just some random text to avoid the lameness filter.
I'm a happy user of 6.10 however, so I won't be upgrading for a bit.
... In fact, I think I can keep my 6.10 system and just install Java from the 7.4 system can't I?
...)
In fact, I think I might wait a couple of months before getting the upgrade.
Though Java is nice
All in all, Ubuntu looks very tasty.
(Interestingly the front page of the Ubuntu homepage still says that it is going to be released tomorrow
I wank in the shower.
Yes Linux has come a long way in desktop features and the other things that make up a desktop environment, but I just don't understand how Linux desktop UIs still can't manage to get spacing, font/text placement and alignment, shading, and all the other details that make OS X so instantly appealing to so many people, regardless if they want to are able to pay for Macs of their own to use.
. 04/11.gif
e xdesktop20060807.jpg
Just compare:
http://shots.linuxquestions.org/scaled/Ubuntu%207
vs
http://images.apple.com/macosx/leopard/images/ind
I just don't understand how there can remain such a huge gap in the attention to detail and refinement with Linux desktops and apps. Have Linux developers never used Interface builder and it's alignment spacing tools or ever really sat down with a Mac and gone over the various OS X UI parts to understand how and why the feel and work so well?
Trying to boot my old comp with the cd, no luck : / Strange, Linux cds don't seem to wanna boot but Windows XP had no trouble doing it, but I don't want to run that O_o
Particles, stuff that matters.
I have just update my 6.10 vmware image running on my win xp to 7.04. Runs great. If you want to try to upgrade from 6.10 to 7.04 open a terminal and enter :-D
gksu "update-manager -c -d" and follow instructions. As always, back up your computer fist.
Help alleviate the load: use the torrents.
"I think it would be a good idea!"
Gandhi, about Internet Security
I am going to try this ungla bunga linux out, and I will advise...
My beef with "turnkey" distros is they always seem to be missing something I need.
For example, I have 4 drives encrypted (dm-crypt).. Does unga bunga have all the device mapper and crypt support built into its kernel?
Also, I auth against an LDAP machine, so I need nss-ldap and pam-ldap and all of that jibber jabber. Samba needs to be able to join my samba-controlled domain, too.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
I already heard this from Michael Dell.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
(Of course, it'll be a Gazelle, but hey.)
Meta will eat itself
* Your site has used more than 20% of the cpu.
* Your account has too many processes running at the same time.
* Your site was consuming too many resources. This happens on occassion to very busy sites that have inefficient scripts running.
Not too many 404s directly diss the sites coder like that..
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
www.ubuntu.com says
"Countdown to Ubuntu 7.04 \n Release is Tomorrow"
Tomorrow as in "In several hours"
Just my 2c
(a Dapper user myself)
Neither the Website nor the repos know of this, yet... And yes, I ran the Update Manager with -c.
Whatever we think about this man, we should thank him to have launched the Ubuntu Project. This is the first Linux distro that have the potential to succeed on the Desktop and to get some decent market share beside Windows and MacOS.
Based on the review this is worth upgrading to - but what are the system requirements like? 6.06 is just usable on my 196 meg RAM laptop, will this push it over the edge?
Incidentally, how come SAMBA isn't included by default? This bit me recently when trying to move files between 2 networked (but not on the internet) computers.
I quit!
On freenode,
:)
#ubuntu = 1600 users
#ubuntu-release-party = 850 users
In the last hour, these have both gone up by around 100-200 each. 24hrs ago, #ubuntu-release-party had 20 people.
Apparently this is a new record for the freenode IRC network!
Forget whether or not ubuntulinux.org can remain online, everyone start praying for the poor folk at freenode
each new release is notable NOT for the inclusion of innovative code whipped up by hackers hired by Ubuntu
The release was officially announced on the mailing list moments ago. Here is the link:
/ 2007-April/000102.html
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce
Was it just me or did ubuntu.com just get slashdotted there, and come up again just recently? Good work my slashdotting friends.
I'm excited about this release mainly because UbuntuStudio was supposed to come out with Feisty. I'm looking forward to having a maintained and stable realtime kernel for audio work
My posts are definitive. Reality is frequently inaccurate.
yep, the so called number #1 bug should be read:
"Ubuntu doesnt have a majority market share in the linux distro marketplace. This is a bug, which heavy hype is designed to fix."
I want to tbe there and see their faces when he sells it out to google.
and the next one...
Bring on Version 9: Hungry Hungry Hippo!
Summation 2
There's nothing that Feisty has that's missing in Linux mint. Well, except for the poop theme. Also, as Mint is largely a duplication of Ubuntu, the Ubuntu Forums and community are just as useful with either distribution. I run Mint on my laptop, and I notice that it not only looks nicer by default (with a great theme that's superior to what you'll find at gnome-look.org), but more importantly, it runs everything faster. Give it a try!
I might wanna try this on my WinXP laptop as dual-boot.
Can anybody tell me if it's possible to remove Ubuntu from the dual-boot later?
Just like to have a backup options. Otherwise I'd have to go through the pain of imaging my harddisk first.
Also, I currently use Outlook Express on both laptop and desktop, with the laptop install pointing to a shared folder on the desktop. Is there any Linux application which is able to natively work with an Outlook Express e-mail folder. Or would I be able to share e-mail in a similar way if I installed Thunderbird on all my computers?
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Not that I'd expect an answer if that's true...but ;) A lot of times older drives have real problems with burns, in various ways. If your XP disk is an official release and not a burned copy it would make sense why XP would boot and your burned linux disks would not.
It uses shared libraries to better effect than Gnome. The result is a far lower memory requirement. It's also faster when it comes to display updates for some reason.
Deleted
We already have GNU/Debian for that. HTH.
Ah, please can you take your self-righteousness and shove it up your ass?
"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
Well said and sad. The cheat of Linux distros. Way too easy to get it working...
How about Radical Realist or GoodForSomething Goose?
I'm guessing you missed the news that Ubuntu is coming out with a COMPLETELY free distro for those who like practically useless installs? They haven't named it yet but they are definitely coming out with it. What do you think of the name, CrippledByPrinciplesBuntu?
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
Whether you agree with what the Ubuntu project is doing or not, there is nothing sneaky about it. They have never tried to hide what they are doing.
Many of us, including me, have been asking for a long time for a distribution that fucking works. One that does things, out of the box, that every other operating system does. And we frankly don't care if that means that we have to run closed software today. Because as we have seen, the existence of closed software on Linux does not prevent people from working on open alternatives to it. The existence of free-as-in-beer Java hasn't stopped people from working on free-as-in-speech implementations (and as you point out, Java is on its way to Freedom.) The existence of the free-as-in-beer nVidia drivers isn't stopping work on an alternative.
Ubuntu is doing what a sizable slice of the community has asked them to do, and your complaining about it is ridiculous. Complain about the users if you like.
And stop complaining about the lack of Ubuntu-distributed new features. Even if no one "at" Ubuntu ever fixed a bug, which frankly is not required by the Open Source model, they do a shitload to coordinate it, and they have done more to package Linux for the end user than anyone else.
Finally, Ubuntu is going to be bringing out an entirely-Free distribution. So I'm not really sure what you're bitching about. If Free software can't compete on its own merits, then it deserves to lose.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Yeah everybody knows linux should stay pushing philosophies instead of actually work. Who needs users anyways?
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
I make 6 figures working with Debian on the Server and Ubuntu on the Desktop. I'm also 6'6 and 350lbs. Now what is it you just called me?
Aye.. I second that.
getting a new drive if you'd really like Linux on that box. CD drives cost all of $10 these days, and a new drive would certainly fix that problem. I had to go that route 3 or 4 years ago with a computer that was 3 or 4 years old at the time.
Many of us, including me, have been asking for a long time for a distribution that fucking works.
And your acceptance of non-Free software now, today means that you'll still be asking for the same thing 10 years down the road. It's a long term losing strategy for very minimal short-term gain.
Ubuntu as a distribution fits into the software ecosystem as a parasite. It gives back very litte in terms of original new code or projects and weakens the push for Free software.
How about Parasitic Pig?
I don't like Java too much but I really think that although ubuntu may be rushing it (since Java has not been GPLed yet) linux and Java may make a great alliance, let's face it, linux has the issue that windows programs don't work on it, even with WINE there are issues sometimes, and Java's main selling point (cross platform-ness ) doesn't quite work with the current operating system monopoly situation. The only thing we needed to start improving the situation was a distribution that comes with sun's Java installed by default, these are great news.
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
YADDD! (Yet Another Disgruntled Debian Developer)
Does nautilus and gnome-vfs-daemon still dominate CPU usage when copying files over SMB?
I cant find any info on this pretty major bug so I dont know if it is the Ubunutu packages or the actual gnome code.
But copying 4gigs should not require 40 minutes on a network all while the CPU is pegged
The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
I don't want to sound harsh because I believe you're genuinely concerned, but I think you're wrong. Ubuntu is providing non-free packages for some things because it's what people want. People want the ability to get easy 3D accelleration for their video cards, and the open source drivers don't do it, so Ubuntu provides the ability to install the non-free drivers easily.
And yes, "what people want" matters. Making it easy for people to get good performance from their computers will win converts to Linux. As Linux's share of the market grows, there's an increasing chance that various companies will support linux in various ways. The more people are using Linux on their desktop and the more people want 3D accelleration for their desktop, the more likely it is that someone (maybe even Nvidia and AMD) will actually produce Free drivers.
So where's the PowerPC version? It's not "officially supported" anymore supposedly but I didn't think that meant it was becoming a second-class citizen, just that paid support was no longer available from Canonical.
The release of a GPLv3 Java by Sun will be great. I want the pressure kept on them to live up to their promise to do so. Ubuntu's inclusion of a non-Free version relieves that pressure.
In sum, despite the release of Treacherous Toad (or whatever it's called) there are lots of people working on Free alternatives. The reason that I care is not because of "morality" or something like that, it's because the pushing of non-Free alternatives robs the Free software of market share. That's all. I can't see why people can't just buy hardware that's supported, use the Free software on it and enjoy.
Ubuntu is effing it up for everyone else.
Because Ubuntu didn't "just work" with my hardware, and FC6 does. FC7 will be coming out next month, that's the one to get excited about, not Ubuntu.
What's a release of Ubuntu with an eccentric release party practice?
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=413529
Mmmm....Ubuntu donuts...
ZL
I don't want to sound harsh because I believe you're genuinely concerned, but I think you're wrong.
Fair enough. Thanks for the rational post. I think you're completely wrong though. By providing what some people want Ubuntu is cannibalizing the market and making it easier for hardware vendors (and arguably in this case Sun) to continue to provide hardware that works inadequately with Linux. Just because a large number of people might be able to get a short-term gain (my nVidia card will now do 3D with this particular version of the driver that will break when the next kernel update is released and may be unsupported in the future because there's no source code). I don't see this as morality, I see it as a practically self-defeating strategy by one Linux distro which is undermining the whole basis on which Linux manages to exist: Free/Open source code.
I realise that what I'm going to say sounds harsh and isn't an option for people with a work requirement for CAD or whatever, but it's possible to buy hardware for wireless, video etc that is completely supported by Free/Open drivers. Other hardware should be sold to Windows users or else junked, it's not that expensive to buy replacements and the actual cost of maintaining it by undermining the pressure to release specs is ultimately going to see us in the same position years down the road
sources : blog 1, blog 2
I already have all of these setup on Edgy, so I won't upgrade.
WareZ d00dz spreading FOSS. Although nothing so surprising, really...to them it's probably just another file.
One thing I find so amazing about Ubuntu is that initially, you can boot it live from the CD to at least see if it is compatible with your system. Then, it's just a simple matter of just initiating an install to the HD. This is a huge improvement over the sometimes hit-or-miss nature of some Windows installs.
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
BBM?
Wow, those screenshots are really, ahh, ahh, exciting. The fact that I could make RedHat or FreeBSD or Slackware-9.1 look just like that goes a long way to explaining the general public's utter confusion about distros, as well as Business's wariness of the multitude of distros from which they would have to chose if they were to adopt Linux.
This is the nerd world's equivalent of the incessantly red power tie worn by politicians (although it's now, six years into the Rove presidency, incessantly blue.)
My Toshiba laptop's DVD drive seems to have a hard time reading disks burned on my desktop under Windows... I've run into the problem while trying to do Linux installs... I'll get part way through the install, then it chokes. Start over and it chokes at a different spot. If I burn the discs under linux on that laptop (using the Nautilus burner in Gnome), they work fine.
.iso image of a music CD on that laptop, and the image was bad. I think the drive has some issues.
Although, interestingly, I tried to make an
Hi,
I was wondering if this release works out of the box on a Macbook Pro. Does anybody know?
Thanks,
Chris.
A simpler version of Linux is well needed - props to them for coming up with an easy to use system.
Pity it's still so ugly though - someone needs to steal away an OSX designer or two hehe
> They have never tried to hide what they are doing.
Maybe so, but,
from the Ubuntu Promise:
"Ubuntu CDs contain only free software applications; we encourage you to use free and open source software, improve it and pass it on."
ubuntu is making vast progress in the arena of raising awareness and usage of free software in the general public. In what way is it parasitic? Ubuntu runs at a loss, held up by shuttleworth's own money. For the first time ever, because of the work ubuntu have put in, I now feel the slightest twinges of comfort in recommending the use of linux to a non technical person.
Fair enough if the FSF want to be purist about their approach, but no one else is obliged to, and no one who is obeying the licensing terms of the software they distribute can ever be accused of being underhanded or parasitic.
(1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
IMO arguably Ubuntu's finest contribution so far to the Linux cause has been the enormous wealth of cheerful, useful, friendly support - forums, irc, wikis - for new linux adopters. The penguin was an extremely closed [sic] community prior to Ubuntu just due to the ire directed at 'noobs' asking 'stupid' questions like "What the hell is ndiswrapper, and how do I use it".
There is still no such thing as console-free linux setup, so at least for the beginner this can make it as painless as possible. Hell, people used Windows 3.1 even with AUTOEXEC.BAT hell and no interweb assistance and it did them no harm for adoption...Desktop linux is still in its infancy, but Ubuntu is _fast_ changing that. I alone have replaced 8 MS installs at home, work and relatives, with zero complaints in the past 2 years or so. This would not be the case except for some of the community support that helped me set up extremely stable systems.
name a package that is included on the CD that is not free software. all the non free stuff has to be downloaded through apt-get.
(1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
I realise that what I'm going to say sounds harsh and isn't an option for people with a work requirement for CAD or whatever, but it's possible to buy hardware for wireless, video etc that is completely supported by Free/Open drivers.
What video cards have completely supported 3D support? Because I don't see a whole lot of competition from anyone besides ATI and Nvidia, and as far as I know neither provide open source drivers.
By providing what some people want Ubuntu is cannibalizing the market and making it easier for hardware vendors (and arguably in this case Sun) to continue to provide hardware that works inadequately with Linux.
If you believe Ubuntu is too popular, that's another issue, but anything that forces hardware vendors to support Linux on more desktops is more likely to lead to more adequate drivers.
Dude, which part of the "Free Software don't mean shit if no ordinary users can use it" do you not understand?
Tyranny isn't the worst enemy of a democracy. Cynicism is.
Ubuntu seems consistently (whether it be proprietary, closed, non-Free wireless or video card drivers or this) just to be attempting consistently to squeeze a few extra percent of the market share at the expense of the long-term robustness of Free software.
It's called the economy of scale. There are a lot more people who don't care about the above perspective than those who do, and majorities tend to make decisions.
a fat git?
In sum, despite the release of Treacherous Toad (or whatever it's called)
This is juvenile and entirely unnecessary. It's also purely a case of you aping the FSF's tendency to invent kindergarten maturity level names for things they don't like.
You just lost all credibility.
So your patches to take care of the problems were going to be ready when? It's been two years, after all.
*crickets*
Based on the torrent tracker stats over a 10 minute interval, the total data being transferred for all Feisty Fawn releases is 5 gigabits per second - and rising quickly!
And the number of people downloading via http/ftp is no small number.
That is a LOT of bandwidth being used!
The only problem I can forsee is setting up MythTV to work with my Radeon AIW. Either way it should make for a fun weekend project!
If by "fun weekend project," you mean "experience that will make you curse computers, question your own sanity, and shake your fist at God for not having struck you down with a well-placed lightning bolt before you set forth on this foolhardy endeavor," then yeah, sure, it might be a fun weekend project.
But seriously, if you want MythTV to work, and work well, get hardware that's well supported. Hauppauge PVR-x50 MPEG-2 encoder cards and Bt848 framebuffer cards [1] are your friends; all others your enemy. Low-end NVidia cards with S-Video out are also probably the best way to avoid wanting to kick the computer.
Unless you put a very, very low value on your time, the cost of the hardware will be insignificant compared to the effort involved in getting poorly-supported gear working with MythTV. I've been down that road. Six weeks worth of work later, I just tossed it all into the parts bin and went out and bought a PVR-150, a Streamzap, and a cheap eVGA NVidia card with S-Video out that was listed as being on the "A" list for Knoppmyth compatibility. With that, it was a weekend project.
[1] The HDHomeRun is pretty slick, too, if you want HD. It's the most painless way to get dual HD tuners.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Try disabling USB-Legacy Support (boot from USB, etc.)- worked wonders for me, seems to be a BIOS bug on some boards.
So far all the ATI cards upto and including the r300 chipsets, the nvidia cards now supported by the nouveau project (which is very recent) include up to the geforce 8800 (IIRC). You can see the details at free3d.org
The latest Intel G965 chipsets also include an integrated video chip GMA X3000 which is apparently beefy enough to do stuff like Compiz/Bery, Tuxracer just fine.
anything that forces hardware vendors to support Linux on more desktops is more likely to lead to more adequate drivers. That's verifiably an unsupported idea. The Linux-only market is a tiny fraction of the Windows market and its a waste of ATI/Nvidia's time to put enough engineers on it. That's why their proprietary drivers suck and why the nouveau guys were irritated enough to start trying to write one themselves. Ubuntu is relieving any pressure there might be on these manufacturers and thus actually penalising manufacturers like Intel who have taken the risk of opening up their specs completely.
for everyone with macs, IBM servers and playstations.
e lease
e lease/ubuntu-7.04-desktop-powerpc.iso.torrente lease/ubuntu-7.04-alternate-powerpc.iso.torrent
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/feisty/r
Torrents
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/feisty/r
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/feisty/r
Fair enough if the FSF want to be purist about their approach, but no one else is obliged to (Emphasis mine)
;)
Unfortunately, try telling them that. Stallman's motto is that everyone is entitled to his opinion, and his opinion alone. He also has his army of cultists (of which crush is fairly obviously a willing footsoldier) to ensure that we never cease hearing about it.
The GNU/zombies at times seem to threaten to overwhelm Slashdot. Methinks it's long past time for CmdrTaco to enquire as to whether Sarah Michell Gellar is willing to do a house call.
"Brains..."
If anyone wants to see some IRC logs from the countdown party channel (850 users going crazy on IRC = mayhem!)...
s tcount=3
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2482851&po
It is a 50KB UTF-8 logfile compressed with gzip. Yes - 50KB worth of IRC conversation in the spate of just a few minutes.
Show me any other software project which has an IRC party (yes, we're geeks ok!) that large, and I'd be most impressed!
Does someone know how the upgrade process from 6.06 to 7.04 work when one have lots of Automatix and Automatix Bleeder packages already installed?
My main concern is not managing to load X after the update. I'm currently using the nVidia beta drivers provided in Bleeder, and it would be really painful if the update doesn't address this in a good way...
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
You're so far off your rocker that you don't even know where your porch is.
Every time I hear someone go off on how free-as-in-beer software is evil and corrupts the precious open-source movement, I just want to smack my forehead in disgust.
It's the usability, stupid.
It's about turning your computer into something productive, so it's not a paperweight with blinking lights. Ubuntu has made more headway in organizing a usable system than RedHat, Mandrake, and Debian combined. It is really the first distro that nearly everyone can use.
Now, about your comments that it is "parasitic", I think you're confused even further. If nothing else, Ubuntu is a way to increase the user base of the software which you say it doesn't contribute to. It gets Linux, Open Office, Xorg, and thousands of other softwares into the hands of people who would never have known there was another alternative to Microsoft otherwise. And you decry it because it encourages people to have choice. You insult the very software that could very well be the cause of manufacturers opening drivers, or if not providing open drivers, perhaps providing working binary drivers, ala NVidia. But then, you're against that, too. To fanatical egotistic closed minded people like yourself, having a binary driver in your kernel would sully it somehow, rendering it unfit to use, so instead you install semi-working drivers provided by people who have reverse engineered the hardware and bitch about how for-profit companies refuse to give away their trade secrets.
Get over yourself. It's not a paragon of virtue and selflessness. It's a fucking kernel. That's it.
Check out my sysadmin blog!
Don't people understand that when you put the .torrent file on the same server as the iso's if one is being hammered the other get's killed too.
:(
.torrent file.
K XV
So....your mirrors are breaking. Yea! Bittorrent saves the day! Lets put the torrent file on the SAME SERVER that's currently melting down. That will fix it.
So your torrent servers don't get killed post the Magnet URI so that people can join the torrent independent of the accessibility of the
Here is the Ubuntu 7.04 i386 desktop
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:DMDDBZV4X4NWSEHVEBBZHSMFY4GHD
Note Slashdot has a problem with Magnet URI's there is NO space between the last K and XV
You can say that with a straight face when we're discussing Feisty Fawn?!
I have this vision that one day, when Linux actually holds something approaching 50% of the market, Stallman will speak of free software and the planet with ring at the sound of his voice. I dream of the day when hardware vendors, such as Dell and HP, make decisions about what components to use based on the license they must adopt, because their millions of paying customers insist. The day when NVidia et al must choose between 50 million units and squat because they refuse to do The Right Thing (tm). The day when basically everything computing is built with Linux as a priority.
The idealists, as always, place the cart before the horse; integrity, then success. Pragmatists know that integrity is expensive. Ubuntu, as far as I can see after participating in all of this for 13 odd years, is the current best hope of actually achieving this. A little strategic pragmatism has its place as well.
Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
Congratulations to all the Ubuntu folks who make that project so great. Ubuntu, more than anything else, gives me hope for Linux on the average user's desktop.
Game... blouses.
Boo fracking hoo... Ubuntu works, my 3d graphics card works, I can get DVDs and MP3s to work, it just works. I don't give a rat's ass about free or open source software, I just want what I have to work. I use Windows where it works and Linux where it works. I don't use Linux because I want to make any statement or wave a banner.
One thing I find so amazing about Ubuntu is that initially, you can boot it live from the CD to at least see if it is compatible with your system. Then, it's just a simple matter of just initiating an install to the HD. This is a huge improvement over the sometimes hit-or-miss nature of some Windows installs.
... WTF? When's the last time you've ever had to mess around with drivers for anything like that on a Linux install (barring exotic equipment or GigE with firmware)? Not since the days of my P133, at least.
Amen, brother. You know, I don't really get why there's so much consternation over Linux installs. We've already beaten the heck out of Windows. (I guess that Linux has to be easy to install because so few people actually install Windows?)
Anyway, not that long ago I was asked by a friend to help her upgrade. She had bought a new (Windows) PC, but didn't really want to mess around with re-config'ing it, so she wanted me to pull the drive from the old one, drop it in the new one. Okay, no problem -- they're both desktops, that's like maybe five minutes and a Phillips-head screwdriver, right? I've done that a dozen times on my Mac and Linux machines (actually on one of my Macs I've had continuity back to OS 9.1 or so, just duping the drive into new machines as I upgrade, and it works great). All right, I'll probably have to reactivate Windows' copy-protection scheme, but no worries there; both computers have valid serials.
So anyway, I pull the drive, stick it in the new machine, press the power button. And what to my wondering eyes does appear? A blue screen of death, of course.
Yeah, that's right. The damn thing wouldn't even boot. Not like the Windows CDs are really helpful here, either; supposedly there's some sort of "upgrade in place" mode, but it wasn't an option on the Install disc I had (which is in itself a huge bureaucratic process to obtain, since most manufacturers don't give you one -- it's probably easier just to bittorrent it).
So eventually I just gave up and told her it wasn't going to happen, and that I'd put both drives in there and she could copy her stuff over to the main hard drive if she wanted. So we booted from the OEM's Windows install, which of course was full of crapware. Since I had a Windows install disc around anyway, I figured, what the hell, I'll just hose it and put a fresh Windows install on it, blow out all the junk.
Which was a great plan, until I got the thing booted up on its fresh install, and the networking card wouldn't work. That's right, Windows didn't even come with the Ethernet drivers, for the bog-standard Intel chipset it had. I mean
Bottom line: Linux is absolutely painless to install compared to Windows. Mac OS is easier, but it gets a free pass because of the standardized hardware. I'll never try screwing around with another Windows system like that again; what should have been a fifteen-minute project took half a day, and for no good reason at all.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
There will likely never be good drivers for the best video cards for Linux until there is a large installed base of users in the market for those video cards on Linux.
There will likely never be a large installed base of Linux users until a distribution hits the market that is a viable alternative to windows for most tasks.
It's really a chicken-egg problem.
If you want to wage jihad with the closed-software community, you have the option of going with a variety of different distributions that are much more focused on that.
If, instead, you want to build the very best Linux desktop you can, you do what Ubuntu is doing. Politics be damned. The people who view free software as religion or political platform tend to block it into a corner that will always relegate it to a niche market in the view of the general public. At the end of the day, the vast VAST majority of users could care less about whether the driver is close-sourced, or open sourced or anything in between. They care mostly that it works, and secondly that it costs them nothing in terms of time and money to make it work. Ubuntu is aimed at those users. Those users are the ones who will have to use Linux to get it out of the niche. And once it becomes a sizable portion of the market, we will see better drivers.
Why don't they change the brown color? In my opinion it looks terrible!
I know they don't want to go blue and copy MS.. but common..
(1) Because people have hardware they bought before they became interested in Free Software.
(2) Because people are interested in particular bits of Free Software for reasons other than an ideological attachment to Free Software as a religion.
(3) Because people have limited funds, and limiting selection to hardware that has good, completely Free Software support may cut out the most affordable options, whereas there choices may be broader if they accept hardware with non-Free modules supporting working with the Free Software they are concerned about.
(4) Because people have specialized needs and interests outside of Free Software ideology, and where those needs already narrow the field of available options to a handful of choices, it may be the case that none of them have adequate, completely Free Software support.
People who use particular Free Software products often do it for price, performance, etc., reasons attached to the particular product, not because of attachment to Free Software ideology, and not because they hope to bring about the utopian future that you seem to think present sacrifice in favor of rigorous devotion to Free Software ideals makes possible.
I have a duel boot machine,
I run the ocasional Java App from both windows and linux on this machine.
When Running any standard MDI-GUI Java app the linux implimentation is always slower.
Is there a reason for this?
O am I imagining it?
--meh--
Regarding the open source radeon drivers; yes they work, admirably well too for the hack-jobs that they are (r300), but in my personal experience they are still no match for even the horrible proprietary ATI drivers, much less the Nvidia ones. 2D performance especially (in high resolutions) is extremely poor. Firefox for example would grind to a complete halt if I tried to resize it's window on both my Radeons (9200 and 9800). Scrolling was also less than optimal. Adding Flash to the mix made things even worse. Enable the proprietary ATI drivers, and everything is smooth as silk.
So while they do work, I would hardly recommend them as alternatives to the proprietary drivers at this point. I require more than the fact that they "work" from my graphics drivers.
> And yes, "what people want" matters.
Have we finally figured this out?... 95% users don't care if the app has source code downloads or not or if you can modify the source code or not, FOSS is all about dev's point of view, which MIGHT lead into user's environment, but not as much as what dev's want.
Two points:
* if the Linux userbase grows as the GP suggested it'll be harder for hardware vendors to ignore issues with drivers breaking down.
* You don't say anything about graphics cards when discussing selecting alternative vendors. Quite a lot of people are interested in that and the options are few if you want 3D, right? (I haven't followed the developement closely)
Ubuntu widens the market for Linux by providing a distribution that people can actually use.
As a result, it strengthens the push for Free software, because most Linux software is Free.
Ubuntu is the first Linux distribution to include an automated crash reporting tool, which feeds more useful bug reports into the system, which is a benefit to all. And the entire system, including aggregation of these crash reports, was built and is maintained and run by Ubuntu.
Finally, Ubuntu is using software in accordance with its licensing, so really no one has room to bitch. If you want to force people to contribute back changes, then put something about that in the license of the software you develop, and quit bitching. Let peace begin with me, and all that.
What software have you written and released under an OSI-approved license? What patches have you written and released (and had accepted) for Free software?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I like using Linux but it is too much work too often. The easier it is for me to get a desktop running, the more likely I'll use it. Ideals are great, but without enough marketshare Linux won't demand the attention of hardware makers. With a larger marketshare and the continued persistence of people like you, Linux will get more free hardware support.
Aside from what I've done to install Beryl - which these days can be accomplished by simply copying and pasting some commands into a terminal and does not require actually typing any commands - my Ubuntu install was done without any console access. Naturally I use the console all the time, but for anything the average user will do they will never need to do that.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
thats a lot of beer, thought about going to AA?
I'm a rabbit startled by the headlights of life
Second utterly BRILLANT post I've seen today.
Must be something in the water....wish I had mod points.
Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
i wonder if they are Cthu/Lunux Clutists?
(1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
Thanks a lot. I shouldn't get worked up like that ;-)
Check out my sysadmin blog!
AutoCAD. Seriously, this is the only thing keeping me from switching. Is there any way AutoCAD can be coerced to work with Ubuntu? AutoCAD 2007 would be great, but I could get by with AutoCAD 2000i.
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
Anyone installed it on a newish laptop? I've installed 6.10 on an ASUS V1JP and the only problems I had were with the sound card, especially the microphone. I had to install a RC version of the ALSA drivers and make quite a few changes to the config to make it work decently. I was wondering whether the new release works better out of the box (if so, I'll upgrade ASAP) or not (in which case I'll wait till I have some time on my hands). I would be grateful if anybody shared their experience.
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/7.04/re lease/xubuntu-7.04-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent - Desktop CD for 64-bit PC (AMD64) computerse lease/xubuntu-7.04-alternate-amd64.iso.torrent - Alternate install CD for 64-bit PC (AMD64) computerse lease/xubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso.torrent - Desktop CD for PC (Intel x86) computerse lease/xubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso.torrent - Alternate install CD for PC (Intel x86) computers
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/7.04/r
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/7.04/r
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/7.04/r
it still means something regardless, although free software for everyone should be the goal.
And your acceptance of non-Free software now, today means that you'll still be asking for the same thing 10 years down the road. It's a long term losing strategy for very minimal short-term gain.
I don't think history bears that out at all. Ten years ago the choices for free software were much more limited, and you had to use non-free software to get a lot of things done. If you needed a high-quality office suite, web browser, spreadsheets, financial software, graphic editing software, plotting software, 3D drivers, or 3D modelling/CAD software, then you used closed source software. Period. Lots of people did use close source programs for these needs. Which, according to you, means that Open Office, Firefox, Gnucalc, Gimp, Blender, the free 3D driver projects, etc etc don't exist. But they do.
The fact is that the GP was correct: History has shown that the existence and widespread use of closed source software on Linux does not hinder the development of free software. In fact, it often enhances the development of free software by creating Linux users that want that software. If there was no closed source program available for Linux, then they wouldn't be using Linux at all, and there'd be no demand for a free software application to suit those needs.
Frankly I think we have the perfect combination of distros right now. Debian forms the solid, and completely free, base operating system. Ubuntu takes Debian and adds both polish and selective non-free parts to fill in the gaps that still remain in the completely free OS. Making Linux more useable for more people is a long-term winning strategy, because it brings more people and more needs to the free software world, and they'll already be here and ready when free software covers another gap. The fact is that people need to get work done today, and allowing them to get that work done despite the fact that a free software solution is not ready yet is a positive thing.
Free software is winning. It's going to win, for largely pragmatic reasons even because once mature free software just works better in many ways. But it hasn't won yet, and the drive for purity for everyone is detrimental.
The enemies of Democracy are
I have been running beta of Feisty Fawn for a bit now on my HP dv6000 laptop. (its the nicest OS i have used so far) I have everything working on it... it's tite as phawk. and any time somebody sees Beryl in action (my shit is configured nicely!) -they flip out.
The only issue i have is connecting to wireless networks. I have Ndiswrapper on my broadcom drivers and all networks are visible.. but when i go to connect to one... no go.
I hope the final release fixes this... This is the perfect time to switch people to a non windows distro.
It's easy to setup, learn & use. And the ubuntu forums are all you need to get up and running. The exact opposite people are dealing with regarding Vista.
if only dx10 would be available..
Kill your TV
I think Mark Shuttleworth and crew share your long-term concerns. To address that precise issue within the Ubuntu family, since the main flavors now incorporate a modicum of non-Free options, even though still not by installed default but merely made readily available for those who choose to sin, they have gone out of their way to deliver and maintain an exclusively Free-only (no matter what!) flavor of the distribution.
All around, it's good news. The main flavors come Free by default, but provide tools to accommodate pragmatic users and thus improve the adoption rate of linux, in general. And yet they're making a clear distinction available for all to (now or later) come to understand the availability and importance of Free software, by virtue of the new flavor.
I, for one, think your vision is correct. I think Ubuntu has addressed it. I think Ubuntu has also worked reasonably hard to purposefully nudge people into choosing what is right, while finally allowing them to sin if they so choose. It drives linux adoption and, practically speaking, does drive some awareness of Free culture where there previously was none. I'm one of those sinners who understands precisely the possible consequences of my choice and went ahead with binary graphics driver anyway. As an increasingly Free adopter, I'd love to see open source drivers release by nVidia. In the meantime, I'll be seeking forgiveness for my one or two vices.
All of the things that work with free drivers in other distributions also work with free drivers in Ubuntu. Ubuntu provides the additional feature that computers with poorly chosen hardware can also be used for a while before you replace them with better supported systems.
You have to remember that one of the main goals of the Ubuntu project is to allow poor people to use recycled computers. Sometimes those recycled computers have hardware that can be best supported by a binary blob - in those cases the Ubuntu model of using the needed blob but alerting the user that it cannot be supported actually introduces people to the Free Software philosophy and allows them to use a Free Software system in a case where they would get no computer or Windows 98 otherwise.
Yes, you could say that it would be better if the Ubuntu project tried to pressure all the hardware vendors into releasing hardware specs / free drivers right now. They're doing that to some extent with the proprietary driver popup warnings. But... an OS needs popularity before it can exert pressure, and the Ubuntu developers have decided that they're going to try to maximize their impact later by compromising slightly now.
As for the inclusion of Java, it's in the Multiverse repository - equivalent to Debian's non-free. It's defiantly no more interesting than having a package for Macromedia Flash Player or Realplayer - and most distros do. Multiverse isn't enabled by default.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
The packages you install from the official repositories are digitally signed, and you can safely install them because they are reviewed by many people.
It is however your responsibility if you want to install third-party packages
That's the beauty of Open Source
And btw
That's pretty easy to do in Debian with "chroot"
And if you want higher security than that, you can always install a virtual machine
In Windows Vista all setup programs are running with administrator privileges.
And I never saw a statement coming from them where they acknowledge that it's a flaw.
Of course it is not a flaw
If software installation isn't it
I appreciate your position and I've argued it myself and when I finally upgrade (my 5yo 2GHz Pentium Linux box works better than most modern XP machines, so there's no reason to upgrade other than KVM), I'll move to an Intel Motherboard that supports open source 3D acceleration.
0 -1041_3-5792956.html)8 4.html)p y_protection_scandal)
That being said, you're making three big assumptions:
1) The biggest one is that users are too stupid to appreciate the value of open source drivers. They might be uninformed or naive or lazy enough to buy proprietary hardware initially or have a legacy system like myself, but sooner or later they will get hit with one of these situations.:
- Their drivers will not be supported any more (see http://lwn.net/Articles/229838/ ) turning them into expensive paperweights,
- Or that the driver is supported but removes a feature you depended on (see http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6651889.html )
- Or that the driver adds an annoying feature (http://news.com.com/TiVo+extends+ad+features/210
- Or that the driver has a bug that won't be fixed soon so you have to live with it until they get around to fixing it. (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070206-87
- Or that all open source drivers contain a feature they're salivating over but closed source drivers don't because the company hasn't gotten around to implementing it yet. (e.g. NVidia support for XGL was extremely slow in coming, or Rockbox versus all the proprietary music player firmware)
- Or the manufacturer installs a rootkit that threatens the security and privacy of your computer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Sony_BMG_CD_co
When any of these happen, the user will have to face the music and the next time they upgrade, all things being equal, they'll pick the open source version. If they've been bitten bad enough, they might even go for the "Ultra-free version of Gutsy Gibbon" (that goodness it'll exist) so they don't accidentally select proprietary firmware (or at least be aware of how exposed they are to potential threats so when they upgrade, they'll know what to change).
2) You're also assuming that people who are considering Ubuntu already have computers that only needs free drivers and they have the knowledge to know why things don't work and either know how to choose hardware that does work and choose to throw out their old card in favour of a free card or at minimum know how to install non-free drivers to get things to work. If new users don't have a clue how to do all of these, they'll just give up and you've lost a potential Ubuntu user. Without more Ubuntu users, case (1) will not happen so no additional pressure on manufacturers will happen.
3) You're assuming that even if the user is keen on learning so as to avoid the problem of (2) that they'll stick around long enough to realize that all the pain associated with Linux is dwarfed by all the gain Linux has to offer. Like it or not, all operating systems have a learning curve and all have annoyances that you tend to accept and forget about once you experience the benefits of the OS. If you can get people past the pain-pleasure break even point, you'll keep them. If you can't, they'll go. As with (2), this means that case (1) will not happen so no additional pressure on manufacturers will happen.
Hey buddy!
I have the same problem in Feisty every time they give me a new kernel image. Here's the quick-and-easy fix.
1. Make sure you have your Linux headers installed.
2. Download ndiswrapper from source, and make install.
After this, you shouldn't even have to reinstall the drivers into ndiswrapper, just rmmod ndiswrapper, and then modprobe ndiswrapper. Log out and log back in to restart nm-applet.
After that, Network Manager will probably ask for your wireless password again. After re-entry, everything should be kosher.
On a side note, make sure the bcm43xx module isn't loaded and make sure it's on the blacklist!
Are you Stallman in disguise?
I can see picking on Red Hat or SuSE for this, but Ubuntu?
The only non-free software that Ubuntu packages by default are drivers. Proprietary drivers are extremely obnoxious, but they're not as bad from a ideological perspective as other OS components or applications because they don't create lock-in. If you have an Intel wireless card it'll work under Ubuntu with a warning. Later, you can switch to a Realtek card and you'll have precisely the same functionality with free drivers.
Even Richard Stallman agrees that you can't eliminate all proprietary software in a single step, as indicated by the existence of the LGPL. As Ubuntu becomes more popular through the "it works if it can, but complains about non-free drivers", the Ubuntu project will be able to put more pressure on device manufacturers to actually release their specs. This is good for everyone.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
Um, in Ubuntu you're NOT always admin. There is no way to log in as root in Ubuntu. The first user you create gets sudo priveledges automatically, and the "root" account inherits the password of the first user account you create. From then on, any user you create does not have any escelated priveledges whatsoever. The idea behind this is that you use the first account you created to administer, therefore enforcing the idea that you should never log in as root or run anything unnecessary as root, and then you use your other accounts for normal work/play. The reason behind this is that novices are used to the idea of logging in under a seperate account to admin stuff, and so that other users do not have a method of doing any of this stuff, even accidentally.
Twinstiq, game news
The Ubuntu release includes a version that runs on the Playstation 3, using Sony's official support of running an "other OS" on the platform.
People can run all the usual Ubuntu packages, and use the open source to port code to the PS3's 6 onchip DSPs for extreme graphics and supercomputing that's about 1000x faster than x86.
--
make install -not war
If sometime in the future Linux will be a true success on the desktop, it will be because it's free as in beer and not free as in speech.
Ubuntu just had a news announcement on how they're making NetBeans (amongst others) a no-brainer install. But when I Tried to install via Synaptic on my system running Feisty (up to date, installed from pre-release) it's still demanding I go download NetBeans separately myself and go drop it in /tmp/ ... is that the standard experience?
o/~ Join us now and share the software
Is there an official list of Ubuntu version numbers and their respective version names? E.g., this is version number 7.04 and named "Feisty Fawn". What are all the other names and versions? Is this documented on the Ubuntu site somewhere?
> Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
/dev/mem | strings | grep -i chair
LOL!
# cat
WOW! Chairs flying everywhere!
"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." -- Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
I am upgrading (my other computer) right now. If anything goes wrong I'll tell you.
So this is supposed to be the user friendly Linux version... yet not the slightest effort is made to help the ordinary computer user who might want to try out Linux with the installation. How many of those people can go to www.ubuntu.com today and find the right download link? There is no explanation of what the different versions are (server and desktop, okay, but what is "alternate"), no explanation of what i386 and amd64 mean, no mention that you need the .iso file, no explanation of what a .iso file is and what you need to do with it, ... . So much effort is put into making Linux user friendly, yet I bet this week alone thousands of people who catch the Ubuntu hype will be having a look at ubuntu.com, get lost in ftp directories and decide that Linux is still way too complicated.
from http://ubuntu.mirrors.skynet.be/pub/ubuntu.com/rel eases/feisty/MD5SUMS
...in case your server is slow (and your confidence in your torrent low)
;-)
50f3655fbcbdba9746d4b05ad8705b0b *ubuntu-7.04-alternate-amd64.iso
ff0cc7c9ed5157f0ff8c0f2213973f49 *ubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
a2b159599b69cea51371eee1ec5feda6 *ubuntu-7.04-desktop-amd64.iso
e296e3468358789904097fc8df29609a *ubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso
8a1099f5fa8eaf4ee295bf0087c8b03a *ubuntu-7.04-server-amd64.iso
cf462501e2dc1b82b96dfc497a0404a2 *ubuntu-7.04-server-i386.iso
e016f1e3322848af98d01eae2688568c *ubuntu-7.04-server-sparc.iso
Of course, you have to trust these...
xof
How does Ubuntu support these things out-of-the-box? What can I do to easily give her the full multimedia experience she's gotten used to under Windows?
Autodesk drank too much Microsoft koolaid, last I used their CAD it was linked against MSHMTL (IE) and a host of other libs that had nothing to do with technical drawing. They should rename it "AutoBLOAT". When they add OpenGL to Qemu, you might consider running Windows in a VM for your CAD work. Or try cobalt which also runs under OSX and I'd take OSX over Windows any day of the week.
Isn't "rmmod" the ill-advised and 100% retarded half brother of "modprobe -r"?
it complains about a lack of a cdrom device.
It's already tight against the wall, how much more backed up do you linux geeks demand?!?
That isn't my understanding - powerpc is now a completly community maintained port. If the community doesn't package it and release, then there will cease to be ubuntu for ppc.
What is the new testing version?
And is it up yet?
I have been running Feisty for months now! I want to move on!
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
Duel boot? Oh, my... Those uncivilized OSes shooting each other, will they never learn?
I am posting this from the same computer on which currently Ubuntu is installing. Beat that, windows!
Open Source Alternatives
linux-restricted-modules, unless they've changed that with this release.
Jesus is coming -- look busy!
"Ubuntu has made more headway in organizing a usable system than RedHat, Mandrake, and Debian combined. It is really the first distro that nearly everyone can use."
I agree that it is one of the first truly usable distros, but all the other major distros made excellent progress in their day. For example, RedHat funds network-manager (now in Ubuntu), and Novell funds evolution (also in Ubuntu, I believe).
It may be that most users will download it directly because it is free as in beer. But they are also directly downloading it because of its functionality.
And its functionality was made possible because it is Free as in speech and for no other reason.
And if their functionality suddenly breaks because a closed-source distributor decided to give up their support for Linux - or nVidia stops maintaining their drivers, they will stop using Linux just the same.
So Free Speech is an important aspect in building the functionality and maintaining a system that will work independently of business interests. Pushing for Free as in Speech software in Linux should not be underrated, even if you come from a functional, rather than a philosophical, standpoint.
I fully agree with jetxee - after spending agonising days with Suse 9 attempting to get all my hardware recognised, and then installing ubuntu and having everything recognised in the first 10 minutes - where's the fun in that? I took it upon myself to seek out incredibly experimental software and get that to work - still far too easy (this was back in the days when XGL and Compiz were still CVS only)...
Ubuntu is still very BUGGY!!! Fiesty is by far the worst linux distro that I have tried and I've been running linux for many years now. I've already had X crash several times. And why is there so many closed sourced packages in Ubuntu?
That sounds like a good idea. I'm going to patent it and then sue Blizzard for infringing on my Intellectual Property.
Installation fails on Innotek Virtualbox, as the partitioner can't create partitions for some reason. Neither can fdisk.
Good to know. Personally I have two PVR-150s (they were selling them for 40% off at the local CompUSA as part of the store-closing sale) and they work very well under Knoppmyth. I've heard mixed things about the '350 (dual tuner); for analog SDTV I think the 150s are really the way to go.
There's something, the details of which escape me, that's a caveat about some models of x50 cards shipped by Hauppauge. For some reason I think there are a few models of card that are like PVR-x50 Pro, or have some extra designator tacked onto the x50 part, which really aren't "x50" cards internally. Maybe you have one of those?
There seem to be people using the PVR-250 with Knoppmyth R5, which just makes me wonder if somehow your card is slightly different from theirs.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
This is wild. I'm actually downloading a Linux ISO from BitTorrent instead of just saying I am.
At the same time, using bittorrent does increase the total upstream bandwidth. Not only am I downloading, but I'm uploading too, which I wouldn't be doing if I weren't using it. So will the original ftp server might only be uploading at 2 MB/s (I'm sure it's much faster than that) that everyone has to share, a thousand users uploading at 2 kB/s almost doubles that (admittedly, they can only upload what they already have, etc, etc. but still, once they have it.... like you said, its the people [like me] who keep seeding after their done downloading that really help). And honestly, I'm sure you know that... probably better than I.
So I guess what the OP of this particular thread should've said was "Seed the torrents, people." Because that's what we really need. That's what I'm doing. I've seed uploads speeds of better than 1 MB/s today and have uploaded like 5 gigs of the i386-desktop iso. It makes me feel good (which I guess is why I'm bragging).
But I see your point, now that I've written this... for the rest of us, it doesn't matter that you're using the torrents, it matters that you're seeding them -- particularly after you've got the whole file and if you've got a fast upload speed. Please don't take your torrents down.
--sabre86
I Installed ubunto 6.10 64 bit for AMD -- it works, but some packages don't install without lots of tweaking (zoneminder, for example, prefers to use the MMX optimized jpeg libraries, which have no 64 bit versions)
Someone who recently ported a video editing app told me I would be better off running 32 bit on a 64 bit system unless I use highly math intensive apps. He said that 64bit uses a lot more memory, so the speed gain you might get from the apps you lose in swapping and other inefficiencies related to larger binaries.
Does anyone have any real world reasons why they run the 32 or 64 bit versions on an AMD 64 bit processor?
Also, since this will be powered on 24/7, I would be interested in which version uses less electricity, if either.
Why would you want to run this dip-shit operating system instead of OS X? It's slower, more difficult to use, less secure, and is maintained on a best-effort basis by a bunch of amateur programmers who obviously haven't got enough skill to work in the real world software industry.
OS X is the best operating system in the world, and you should be ashamed to want to ruin your beautiful macbook by installing lin-sux on it.
Think different. Think better. Think Apple.
There will likely never be good drivers for the best video cards for Linux until there is a large installed base of users in the market for those video cards on Linux.
Well, actually Intel's X3000 chips are now better supported under Linux than they are under Windows XP and Vista. At present Ubuntu is encouraging people to ignore the problem of video-driver support, to purchase broken crap from nvidia and to penalise Intel by not selecting their boards and integrated cards.
All that Ubuntu is spreading is the idea that somehow or other regardless of what purchasing decisions we make Free software will magically appear. It won't. As the revenues of OpenSuSE, RedHat, Mandriva and Debian are stolen by Ubuntu the ability of those companies to fund the people that write the kernel, the fancy window-managers, the NetworkManagers's etc will be reduced. Our consumer choices have real, tangible effects.
As things stand it's highly unlikely due to the fear of patents that nvidia and ati will ever release the specs for their hardware, let alone open the source code for their drivers. Every dollar that's spent on nvidia/ati hardware goes to fund the patent system and ensures that we won't ever have reasonable access to hardware.
It's just self-defeating and the annoying thing is that it doesn't have to be this way.
Your post is a very lucid response. I wish I had time to respond more fully to it as it's made me think a bit, but briefly:
1) I'm afraid that I see plenty of evidence of people that don't understand why they'll have a problem keeping their machine secure with a proprietary binary driver on it. I just can't understand someone that believes that loading a big chunk of secret code that's only been looked at by a couple of people is secure. I can only imagine that these are the people that fall for phishing scams. I consider them to be displaying unintelligent behavior and I don't know if that's because of innate problems or lack of training. I find it hard to believe that they're not aware of the security issue. And the result is more trouble than it's worth: read the forums of any major distro and you'll see that the number one pain-in-the-ass request is from some fool that doesn't understand that his problem is exotic and un-debuggable because it hinges around a closed, proprietary driver. The amount of time wasted on this is not trivial.
2) I really don't know who the Ubuntu user population comprises. I do know that it it's an older machine then it's probably reasonably supported with Free drivers (see the list of video cards I pointed to earlier) because the nature of Linux support is that people reverse-engineer this stuff a year or two after release. So, that leads me to believe that there are people buying new hardware without even considering whether the components are supported or are secret, patent-encumbered and non-supportable. If that hypothesis is true then the market is not pressuring manufacturers, and more importantly not rewarding e.g. Intel who definitely get it.
3) Most of the "annoyances" are to do with non-work trivialities (with obvious 3D modelling exceptions which only applies to a tiny fraction of the market). If the pressure on manufacturers is reduced so that someone that avowedly knows and cares nothing about freedom (look at some of the posts in this thread if you don't believe me: these are people that would use a pirated or donated copy of Windows if they could get it instead of Linux) can be temporarily placated then we lose. For nothing. I have no interest in that userbase and I think pandering to them will result in the destruction of freedoms that have been carefully and laboriously built up over the past 15 years or so.
It used to when WINE was the only way apart from dual-boot, because WINE is impossible to understand for a layman. Now that VMware Server is available for free, I simply run self-made Windows VMs. I only have a 800MHz PIII with 512 MB RAM, but it runs one VM at a time impressively quick, which is all I need. The second VM running will of course get it swapping , resulting in a severe performance drop, but you can pause all VMs you have and switch between them with two clicks of a mouse, with no noticeable delay.
Oh, and through ssh/X11 forwarding I can use my VMs from the Powerbook also, for which VMware is not (and won't be) available. With good performance even, though the ssh encryption + VMware will increase the CPU load to 60-70% when I access the machine through a gigabit connection (as opposed to accessing it through the Internet at work with 300kB/s max).
Windows on Linux is not rocket science anymore. I dunno what this virtualization stuff is which is included in the new Mandriva, but I have it already running in a VM and get to test it in the next days. I'd rather use open source than a commercial product, but for now I'm happy with my VMware.
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
As bad as Vista is at least it can drag and drop. Try to drag a file from fileroller and drop it in nautilus.
i386 is in alt.binaries.cd.image.linux, posted by Necronomicon.
Both are about 1/2 done as of now, and both are desktop.
RedHat? It's all free software last time I looked, and I think since Yast was GPL'ed the same is true for SuSE.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
I've not had to struggle getting an accelerated display in linux for years. This OS fell at the first hurdle, die you fiesty fuck, I'm rebooting into Gentoo.
Prior to 7.04, I'd agree that you really did need commandline to get Ubuntu up to snuff. For the first time, installing the graphics drivers, along with enabling desktop effects was literally two clicks (NVIDIA), and I had no need of the CLI to get the system running (of course, I'm back to using it for programming, but that's preference).
Help Fight SPAM today!
At present Ubuntu is encouraging people to ignore the problem of video-driver support, to purchase broken crap from nvidia and to penalise Intel by not selecting their boards and integrated cards.
That's so not true
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
This got me thinking. Wouldn't it be cool if Ubuntu delayed the next release by a month? Think about it: Ubuntu 7.11. Heh.
The two in my mythbox might hear you!
--Phillip
Can you say BIRTH TAX
But maybe for lesser hardware that can't even support a live CD, you might not want to install Ubuntu at all; you might want to stick with a less resource-intensive version, such as Xubuntu (Ubuntu with the Xfce window manager). That's what I did with the 6-year-old laptop we have --but guess what, that was able to support the Xubuntu live CD with graphical installer. And remember, if it comes down to that, you can always install Xubuntu and then "apt-get install" the KDE desktop to turn it into Kubuntu (or Ubuntu with GNOME desktop).
But I can't compare that to Windows, since I haven't installed any Windows beyond Win2k. So maybe the new Windows installers are even slimmer than Ubuntu's text mode installers. I dunno.
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
Wow, I wasn't aware that this works for SATA drives. I need to check this out. I assume it works tha same with full VMWare workstation, not just with VMPplayer...
Here's an interesting item of info: My bandwidth only get throttled by AT&T when I'm using Windows (XP). I've been downloading Ubuntu and installing it on friends' and families' computers since Warty (4.10), and, when I'm running Ubuntu, no bandwidth throttling during those downloads. But under Windows, I get all kinds of flashing lights on my router and I have to call AT&T and complain about the 1 KB/s downstream. They claim it's some kind of "noise" on a piece of equipment on the line on my street, but they never fix the "problem." 'Oh, well,' I tell the support folks cryptically, 'I've found a workaround.' As a test, I started my 7.04 download today under XP and, sure enough, after less than three minutes I was at 1 KB/s (down from a whopping 3 KB/s max at the start of the download) and stayed there for 15 minutes (with my router's "Broadband Link" light flashing at me like some fiend in a trench coat). Under Ubuntu, I'm at over 200 kb/s at exactly 15 minutes. Yet another anecdote to spur potential new users to Linux, I guess. Does this happen to anyone else?
I am not an animal! I am something worse!
Hrmmmm.... That name just doesn't sound right... How about "Fedora", instead?
*ducks*
Rather than flagellating Sun & Canonical here, why don't you go help out making GlassFish and NetBeans work well on top of gcj? If non-free software annoys you so much, go write better free software alternatives to replace it.
I have actually made the mistake through my own incompetence then, of having software show up as having updates after compiling from source. Compiling from source is something that Gentoo users will like to do, but if you have a binary-distribution like Ubuntu, it's probably because you don't want to be messing with that.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Actually, Sun has promised to release the Java platform under GPLv2, not GPLv3. I'll review GPLv3 when it comes out, though.
Sun will release the Java SE class libraries under GPLv2 (less the encumbered portions previously explained) before the end of June as promised.
In fact, the Java software is in Multiverse so has the same status as the JDK included in Debian's non-Free repository. Please don't ding Canonical this way. They have done more than you can possibly imagine to help Sun's staff with the work. They have worked faithfully with Sun's executives, persuading them of the need for Free software. They keep the pressure up by co-operating and setting the pace. They deserve your praise and not this criticism.
Yes, but it run EVE online client?
Just out of curiosity, how is an undocumented, vendor-supplied source code driver better than a binary-only one? Either way, if it breaks, you can't fix it.
Jesus is coming -- look busy!
Ok, so if people aren't putting money into the system (free as in beer), their bug reports can't be trusted (binary-only crap in the kernel) and they're useless for putting pressure on hardware designers (same), what's the point of having them? Enlarging the userbase is a good means to certain ends, but as an end in and of itself it's pointless.
Jesus is coming -- look busy!
I have no experience with ubuntu, but it sure works with kubuntu. It is somewhat buggy, but definitely usable.
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/ 2007-February/000098.html
:)
Agree or don't, Ubuntu technical board seems to have decided that Ubuntu-PPC will be unofficial, unsupported distribution because of... download numbers
So, I don't want to start an argument here about that decision but doing my job as a person lived 2 hours of fan noise hell on my Quad G5: If you really want to install, make a clone of your working environment so when you hear fans full speed or someone makes fun of you at their support channel, you can revert back very quick without downtime.
I wouldn't post this warning if Ubuntu people were ethical enough to warn end user about unsupported situation right at downloads page. If I really wanted to run Linux , I would run Yellow Dog Linux btw. At least they don't take decisions based on... download numbers!
I call BS on that. In general the hardware that's better supported tends to be older because it takes time to reverse engineer. The stuff that tends to be not supported by Free drivers are newer video cards and newer wireless chips. I'd really like you to show me some data showing that the people that are trying to use an old Celeron in Latin America have a video card unsupported with Free drivers.
The other major class of non-Free software promoted by the Ubuntu project are patent-encumbered codecs for e.g. mp3. All that distributing that stuff does is make it easier for JoeSixpack to ignore the actual consequences of patent law. If he were acting strictly in accordance with the law he'd be a lot more upset and supportive of patent reform.
That's nice to see (really), and I know that there are developers within Ubuntu that know the situation is a problem, but what you'll see if you look through this thread is that a significant number of people responding to me completely deny that there's a problem with proprietary drivers. They explicitly are using Ubuntu because it's easier than doing anything to change the situation. They explicitly state that they don't care about the lack of freedom and long term stability.
Ubuntu is facilitating this. I wish the education effort within Ubuntu good luck, but I think that preaching to people about the problems of a lack of freedom while at the same time spreading that lack of freedom will not convince the waverers, will be ignored by the ItsCheapAndWorks crowd and has the effect of discouraging consumer action. Without any BS or sarcasm I really hope that you'll be able to point me to some evidence in the future that shows that Ubuntu has done something concrete: either funding the development of Free drivers, or mounting a campaign to pressure nvidia or ati or whatever.
All I see at the moment is an attempt to have your cake and eat it. I don't think its sustainable, and if it only affected Ubuntu I wouldn't really care, but it affects all distros.
As a side not I'll point out that "launchpad" itself is non-Free software because it's an intrinsic part of Canonical's attempt to get into the enterprise market.
I really hope that you'll be able to point me to some evidence in the future that shows that Ubuntu has done something concrete: either funding the development of Free drivers
Next?
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
All that the link you pointed to me says is:
1) Canonical are working with Linspire's PROPRIETARY ClickNRun crap
and
2) That Ubuntu will "support" nouveau. There is NO COMMITMENT of either money or more importantly CODE to nouveau.
As I said, I want to see concrete support, not PR.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
You've claimed that the widespread use of Ubuntu will result in more Free software. Ubuntu is already very widespread (#1 distro in terms of new downloads afaik) and I've asked you to provide me with some concrete evidence of that claim. That's not doing my homework for me, it's backing up your claim. As of yet you can't point to a single important piece of Free software written by the Ubuntu developers. That's in sharp contradistinction to the metric shit-ton of code released by Debian, Red Hat, Mandriva, and even SuSE. Now you're backing down to saying that Ubuntu will give some money, sometime when some unspecified goal is met.
it seems to me you should actually support your claims with more than bold accusations (one of which I already proved wrong). Yes, it is currently just a pledge, but give it a bit of time will you? You mean your link that points to a PLAN to educate Ubuntu users, the details of which are hosted on the NON-FREE Launchpad? Give me a break. Again, you need to show me something better than plans, pledges and PR and you can't. You can't because in the larger scheme of Linux distros Ubuntu takes Free code and gives back very little.
I wish I had a way to stop my code being used by you guys.
You've claimed that the widespread use of Ubuntu will result in more Free software.
I haven't claimed anything of the sort, you might want to reread the thread. I have just rebutted your own erroneous claim that "Ubuntu is encouraging people to ignore the problem of video-driver support, to purchase broken crap from nvidia and to penalise Intel by not selecting their boards and integrated cards".
You are suddenly changing the topic to the amount of code Ubuntu has contributed. I agree that other distros so far have created more substantial code, but we will see how this develops in the future: Ubuntu is scarcely 3 years old, and you just cannot compare it to RedHat and Debian. Even in its short lifetime it has contributed "metric shit-loads" of something the others ignored: polish. RedHat and Debian are free to incorporate Ubuntu's improvements to Gnome, and I am pretty certain Debian did. Anyway, if we have 5 distros providing raw code and one providing polish that makes it actually nice to use, which the others can incorporate back, I don't see the big problem. If you are opposed then maybe you are less the Free software guy than you want to make us think.
You are deliberately ignoring stuff, like the new completely free Ubuntu flavor, the fact that Canonical is employing many developers that can now work fulltime and whose work also benefits Debian, and that you haven't been able to argue how nonfunctional but free computers help anyone. Therefore discussing with you is no fun. That's sad because you have good points. Launchpad _is a problem. I don't think it will be terrible successful because it has a taste of handing over a project's infrastructure to Ubuntu. I don't however think that freeing it would make much of a difference. If there is any value to Launchpad, it is that there is only one. At the same time that's the biggest problem with it.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
You are suddenly changing the topic to the amount of code Ubuntu has contributed. I agree that other distros so far have created more substantial code, but we will see how this develops in the future:
Well, I'm not suddenly changing it. If you look up the thread here you'll see that what I'm worried about is that Ubuntu is gaining marketshare at the expense of the companies that actually fund the hackers that release GPL'ed software. That includes things like the nouveau project. Ubuntu has contributed precious little to this as far as I can see which is why I asked you to provide evidence of a concrete substantial contribution from Canonical to either funding developers in independent projects or else releasing your own code.
Ubuntu is scarcely 3 years old, and you just cannot compare it to RedHat and Debian. Even in its short lifetime it has contributed "metric shit-loads" of something the others ignored: polish.
The only thing that really counts is Free code. Without it there can be no polish. And I completely dispute your point that Mandriva or Fedora or Debian or FreeBSD or OpenSUSE are less "polished". In fact my point tests at the time of Ubuntu 6.10 showed no significant differences except that I preferred the rpm-based distros (probably out of experience and not any innate advantage).
I'd be perfectly happy though if Ubuntu were doing some polishing in a way that didn't negatively affect me.
Anyway, if we have 5 distros providing raw code and one providing polish that makes it actually nice to use, which the others can incorporate back, I don't see the big problem.
The problem is that Ubuntu is NOT educating people about the problem of binary-only proprietary drivers. It's doing the opposite, it's spreading confusion about the problem, and your own support forums are starting to show it. If you take a fair look at the whole thread and the responses to me from people that clearly say they don't care about free or open code you'll have to admit that they are a significant portion of the Ubuntu user base. Again, I wouldn't give a **** about that but for the problem that it eats market share and revenue from the other distros that actually release Free code.
If you are opposed then maybe you are less the Free software guy than you want to make us think.
I don't get it? Being in favour of Free software and releasing my code under GPLv2 means I'm not allowed to criticise people that push non-Free code? Guess I'd better go and look at the GPL again. As far as I'm concerned Free software is a quid-pro-quo, tit-for-tat. I put something into the pot, you put something into the pot and we both gain. What Ubuntu is doing is to put nothing in the pot and to set up a fancy table beside the pot and encourage others that put nothing in the pot to cluster around and gorge themselves on the free food.
You are deliberately ignoring stuff, like the new completely free Ubuntu flavor,
I'm ignoring it because it's irrelevant to the damage that Ubuntu/Canonical are doing by spreading non-Free software. We don't need another Free distro, there are loads all as good as gNewSense. What's needed is for Ubuntu to stop distributing proprietary, non-Free drivers.
the fact that Canonical is employing many developers that can now work fulltime and whose work also benefits Debian,
Again, I'm asking you for details of what these people have released because I don't know. I'm interested in what Ubuntu gives back. Bear in mind though that even if Ubuntu releases a reasonable amount of useful code (say on a par with the hated Novell/SuSE who employ some serious kernel hackers and maintainers of things like PAM and Evolution), it would still be causing damage.
and that you haven't been able to argue how nonfunction
IMHO, IANAL, TINLA, etc...