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Dell to Sell Machines with Ubuntu Pre-Loaded
kotj.mf writes "Cnet is reporting that Dell will shortly announce a partnership with Canonical to offer Ubuntu pre-loaded on certain consumer-oriented desktops and notebooks. The announcement comes after a groundswell of support for pre-installed Linux on Dell's IdeaStorm site. 'The company is starting its business by trying to appeal to users of desktop computers. From there, Canonical Chief Executive Mark Shuttleworth has said, the company plans to head to the server market, where the real Linux bread and butter can be found. [Dell spokesman Kent] Cook wouldn't comment on whether Dell plans to offer Ubuntu on its servers as well.'."
I think we owe this to Microsoft. This would never have happened were it not for Vista.
A friend I know that works for Dell found a time line for selling selling systems with Ubuntu a few weeks ago. I would have rather seen OpenSuse but such is life.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
People on the Internet (places like Slashdot in particular) have been begging Dell for this for years. Now, it's time to see how many of those people were doing it just on principle or to be part of the crowd, and how many did it because they actually were planning on purchasing such a box.
Dell may offer this, but I guarantee they won't be advertising it as heavily as they do their Windows boxes, so the only real way for it to work, at least to start off, is for all these people that were begging for Dells with Ubuntu loaded on them to go out and buy a Dell with Ubuntu loaded on it. Joe Blow won't be buying these yet, not until there are enough early adopters out there to generate a buzz.
Now lets see if half of those people that voted for Linux on the ideastorm site actually buy a machine. Because if this flops it will seriously hurt Linux in the mainstream market.
Kilroy was here.
The company is starting its business by trying to appeal to users of desktop computers. From there, Canonical Chief Executive Mark Shuttleworth has said, the company plans to head to the server market, where the real Linux bread and butter can be found...
What? If servers are where the money is, why not start there? If I was a stockholder I'd be concerned about that approach.
One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
Nice to hear! My next notebook purchase might be Dell just so I'm guaranteed the hardware will work out of the box without having to use ndiswrapper or any other weird methods to get drivers to work. Cheers!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
I would have bet a bunch that they would only support Suse. Part of an embrace and extinguish campaign. This is good news.
People who disagree with you are not automatically evil, greedy, or stupid.
Ubuntu on servers is a bad, bad idea. It'd be like running your hardware on Debian Sid all of the time with neither thought nor care as to the consequences.
Debian servers--cool. Hed Rat servers--sure, why not. Ubuntu? Please god no. Leave Ubuntu on the desktop, where it does a good job.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
i remember seeing dell machines that offered linux instead of windows in the past.. but the prices were the same or HIGHER for linux! Dell will need to address this, and offer these dellbuntu boxes at lower price. the OS is free! if they need to include a price to cover support costs, it should still not be equal to or greater than the cost of including Vista!
If others like Dell had better business sense, they'd look to stray away from MS or at least offer an alternative to it. They'd save from having to purchase (even via partnership sweetheart deals) MS' product line. What I could end envisioning though, is a slew of botnets and bruteforcing ssh hosts because of things like this though.
Infiltrated dot Net
We recently had news that Dell was thinking of changing the way they sell. Not just direct sales any more. Sounds to me like Dell is having trouble with their business model. All this could be clever business moves or it could be death throes.
So we're expecting a flood of people complaining about how they are offering one specific distro, and none others. The big worry here was that few people would be happy with whatever 1 distro was picked, and picking many, and subsequently supporting them, would be a problem.
so my question: As I feel about it - I was under the impression that the idea behind getting linux pre-loaded was that you simply aren't paying for an OS you don't want. IIRC, it has been awhile, or it has never been possible, to get a blank HD with your system from dell. Personally, I think this would be the best option. Linux, configured totally-not-the-way-I-want -it would be one step better, as I'm not shelling out the $235345 for windows, which I'm just going to delete anyway.
Don't get me started on how when a relative or co-worker buys one of these things, you have to format the computer just to get rid of all of the annoyware that comes with it. (Mcafee! Musicmatch jukebox? Qualcomm service agreement? WTF is this agreement that comes pre-installed and pre-agreed to? )
Am I under the wrong impression here, or can we be happy just to not have windows pre-loaded, and not be paying for something that is going to get deleted?
Do we really have to argue about whether or not Ubuntu was the way to go? I can't imagine a single person in this crowd who would be happy with the way dell will set it up, and if the argument is that it will introduce linux to the masses, well, I just don't see that happening. The only people who don't already know what they're doing who wind up ordering a dell box with linux already on it are only going to order it because of the cost discount.
Then they'll do one of two things:
Ask you to show them how to use it (ugh)
pirate/buy windows.
So, my original question: We're happy because this primarily means not paying for windows when we're not using it, right? What other benefits are there?
Do they plan to sell this on less capable machines because the drivers just aren't available for the latest and greatest of options? Or, will they still sell you a machine with the hottest hardware, but no ability to use it?
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
...is a hardware platform that consumers are guaranteed will work with a particular distribution of Linux. It doesn't even matter which one it is as long as it comes, out of the box, ready for use. That's the only thing that, so far, Windows has always had up on any distro of Linux.
'What? If servers are where the money is, why not start there? If I was a stockholder I'd be concerned about that approach'
A Dell/Ubuntu desktop gets higher visibility. What would really allow it to take off is when the average users can walk into the high street computer shop and buy one. Dell should create franchises around 'Dell shops' something like the Apple stores and sell a total stack from the desktop to the server. They should also consider getting into the Digital Multimedia market.
was Re:What?
davecb5620@gmail.com
.... this is more about painting Microsoft into a corner by first flipping back to selling XP on some of their systems, and now this. I suspect that Dell is going to be in a very interesting position when they go to re-negotiate their OEM agreement with Microsoft where they can try and dictate the terms that they want.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
Sorry, but it just doesn't have the same ring to it.
Anyone knows how much the price difference would be between the Windows Vista, XP and a Linux preloaded desktop?
Thanks.
HDs are big these days. Why not sell both Windows and Linux on it? I think it would be commercially way more attractive to customers. And if Window's license doesn't allow that, EU pay notice and start your investigation!
Bert
I'm happy with the Ubuntu, although I'd rather have it as a laptop (space!)
Does it run Li...ooh, it does!
Because let's face it I'm cheap. These machines will come at a premium compared to the pre-loaded bloatware boxes because that bloatware and windows itself subsidies much of the cost of the hardware itself. I will continue to buy bloatware boxes and wipe them clean and install Linux afterword because I'm going to do what's right by me. Thank you Microsoft and friends for helping pay for my new hardware, now get lost.
I keep having this recurring dream. It's about seeing this post over and over and over again.
While you're thinking of Myanus, why not try Gaybuntu?
It was covered last month in FSM. http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/blogs/gnu_linu x_on_the_desktop_a_modest_business_proposal
Now I can buy my first Dell w/ Ubuntu loaded already for me *tears up* it's a beautiful day :)
Agreed. Moreover, if Dell is REALLY interested in sparking the interest of "Joe Sixpack" in test driving Linux, I'd recommend they offer an option to have a desktop/laptop preconfigured to Dual Boot for the same price as a Windows Only machine. I agree with some of the other posters in that it's unlikely that your average user is going to be terribly interested in Linux preinstalled (unless there's a considerable price difference). If, however, there is the option to have a dual boot machine for the same price as a Windows Only machine, and both are equally supported by Dell, average PC users might take the plunge and try it out. What would they have to lose?
http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/index.php/2007/03 /29/linux_on_dell
(To the tune of "Road to Hell")
Well I'm here to place an order
But there's a choice I don't know
It's weathered every crisis you can think of
And I came here to buy Vista
But the Windows joy I know
Is priced beyond belief way down in the shadows
And the need for anti-virus
Chokes the smile on every face
And common sense is screaming, "What the Hell!?"
This ain't no technological breakdown
Oh no, this is Linux on Dell
And I don't need to ask for credit
And there's nothing they can do
But watch the E.U.L.A.s, flying away from you
Oh look out world, take a good look
What goes down here
You must learn not to have fear of the G.P.L.
This ain't no vendor lock-in-forced upgrade
Oh no!
This is Linux
This is Linux
This is Linux on Dell
So.. it has come to this
... I just spent $800 on a laptop for the wife (from Dell with XP on it)... had this been out a week earlier, I woulda gone Ubuntu (planning on it anyway...)
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
'i remember seeing dell machines that offered linux instead of windows in the past.. but the prices were the same or HIGHER for linux!'
That's because the OEMs has to contract to sell a minium number of per system 'licenses' per quarter. If they fail then the short fall goes onto next quarters bill.
'COMPANY hereby agrees to pay MS for each Period (A) the minimum commitments amounts for the Period as set forth in Exhibit B, and (B) the amount by which cumulative royalties during a Period exceed minimum commitment amounts for that Period'
'(iv) To the extent that cumulative minimum commitment payments during a Period exceed cumulative royalties for such Period, such excess shall be known as "prepaid" royalties" and shall be recoupable against future royalties only during the initial Term of this Agreement and only for the Product(s) licensed herein. Prepaid royalties are not recoupable against payments made to Authorized Replicator.
was Linux needs no Windows Tax (Score:5, Interesting)
davecb5620@gmail.com
"Of the 160.5 million operating-system licenses shipped in 2006, Windows accounted for 92 percent, compared with 4.1 percent for Mac OS X and 3.8 percent for Linux, Gillen said. "We're not seeing any breakout momentum for Linux on desktop," he said."
Guess what guys - you can download Linux for free, and use it, no license required - as do a hell of a lot more than 3.8 million people. A license only comes into the equation when/if you distribute the software and any modifications you have made.
Get a clue already.
....or use Ubuntu, but I hope at least it will spur on driver development that can feed back into the mainstream kernel and maybe get some software houses to port software to Linux.
Now we just have to wait and see if the Microsoft-subsidised Vista machines are cheaper!
#include <sig.h>
This is great news on the drivers front. Will this mean that laptops will have the wireless pre-configured and working (even when you turn the radio off using the hot keys)? I think this is great news from that front. If they will have systems with the wireless and video drivers working flawlessly this will be a step forward to getting linux in the hands of average computer users.
Slashdot beat digg to this one... :)
Mark my words. The turning point has been reached. Linux popularity has reached critical mass. Microsoft is in trouble serious trouble.
Watch as it spreads like Firefox from this point forward.
Question everything
Somebody wake me up when they've put their prices out there. The bottom line to me is, how does it compare/contrast with the competition? Can I get more bang for my buck from Dell than I could from System76?
I know it's possible to play DVD's with Ubuntu but how will Dell deal with the legal grey spot that is Linux DVD playback?
"Do you honestly think that the Windows user who can't be bothered to download Linux is going to jump at the chance to buy a machine with it on?"
Do you honestly that Joe is going to opt for the $800 "vista ready" computer when it looks as though the $500 "ubuntu loaded" one is right next to it on the virtual shelf?
PS, Joe: you don't have to pony up another $200 for Office, either.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
But will the option be put in a pull down menu off the desktops and notebooks linked from the front page, or will you have to click a tiny, unobtrusive link on the bottom that says, "check out our Ubuntu computers" hidden behind the giant banners saying that Dell fellates Vista and recommends that you do the same?
This really doesn't count as enough for me before it's there in the select input tag next to the Microsoft products.
The original idea was to allow _several_ Linux distributions (including openSUSE and Fedora), so it hasn't exactly been fulfilled, but it's a nice step in the right direction.
So, 2007 really IS the year of Linux on the Desktop?
http://www.mhall119.com
But with Dell making (reportedly) dozens of dollars per unit with licence fees from 'craplet' ISVs installed on Windows PCs, will it recover the difference with the net cost of Ubuntu (we assume Dell has a per-unit-based support contract with Canonical for these) over the OEM price for Windows. This may be closer to being even than you would think. :-) ) No doubt MSFT would much prefer to make craplets impossible to install on Vista)
(BTW, MSFT could solve the craplets issue on Vista easily - just compensate each OEM the dollar equivilient of their lost craplet revenue and I'm sure they would all jump at the chance. But would MSFT sell Vista to OEMs for possibly as under 10 bucks...?
So the question is, can ISVs start creating annoying Linux trialware that Synaptic Package Manager cannot exorcise and will be very hard to root out so Dell can start getting this cash flow again? Remember, that since almost all small useful utilities anyone would want are already easily available for free for right off the Add/Remove programs menu, these craplets must remain true to the tradition of trialware and be especially useless, annoying or (if they do do anything useful) timeout so soon they're infuriating.
Any takers?
'So we're expecting a flood of people complaining about how they are offering one specific distro'
.. Do we really have to argue about whether or not Ubuntu was the way to go?'
.. etc). This is one of the reasons I got out of the Windows business - I got fed up fixing things for free.
..).
Don't be so negative. The average user is happy with the one distro. The rest of us install five different distros in an evening - just for fun for the fun of it.
'I was under the impression that the idea behind getting linux pre-loaded was that you simply aren't paying for an OS you don't want'
No, the idea of pre-loaded linux was so the average user could work his computer without having to install an Operating System. How many people install their own Windows. They don't - it comes already installed on the computer.
'can we be happy just to not have windows pre-loaded, and not be paying for something that is going to get deleted?'
This is not aimed at the average \.dotter but the average Windows user. As such it's a good idea. From all reports Ubuntu is an ideal choice for a high spec ease of use desktop computer. Ximian or SuSE would have been another good choice. I suspect the MS patent deal had something to do with Dell not choosing them.
'if the argument is that it will introduce linux to the masses, well, I just don't see that happening'
Until they can walk into the high street shop and buy one then it won't. See my post re the Dell high street Store
'Then they'll do one of two things: Ask you to show them how to use it (ugh)'
Click on Browser, click on Emailer etc. Personally I don't offer free tech advice anymore. I did install a Dell/BT wireless laptop solution a while back for £80.00. I have been back in four times to fix it - at no charge ( talk/talk stopped working, Yahoo msnger audio won't work under non-admin account/ modem forgets DMS settings unless reset once a forthnight, anti-spam software freezes in Outlook
'pirate/buy windows'
If people want to pirate windows then they'll do like everyone else would and go down the market and get any software/DVD they want from Mahmood the trader.
'So, my original question: We're happy because this primarily means not paying for windows when we're not using it, right? What other benefits are there?'
As someone who has worked in the IT field for yonks, my primary reason for choosing Linux is reliability and security. On the desktop it doesn't crash as often as Vindows, no viruses or phishing attacks. If it does crash then it's because I done something. I have a Suse Box functioning as an SMB file server and it hasn't crashed in two years. The ISA server has to be rebooted once a week or it forgets what hardware is attached (IS_NOT_EQUAL bla, bla
was Call me crazy.. (Score:5, Interesting)
davecb5620@gmail.com
Just have a look at this thread. Virtually nobody complains. If not even a bunch of slash dot trolls bother to bring prophesies of doom about the choice of Ubuntu, then it just shows that all the worries about what distribution Dell would pick have just been squashed, big time. Just look at this thread. There are a couple of worries about the hardware, a few reliefs that they didn't go with Novell, but there isn't really any sharp criticism of the choice of Ubuntu. Not that strange of course. As everyone said before. If the hardware is right, stick whatever you want on it, we can fix the software ourselves...
From the article, "There definitely are those who are Linux zealots, but we did some checking as well." OK they did some checking, and Dell now reassures us that people actually want to run Linux.
Unless there is a huge new hobbyist market, I don't see how this can be the case.
Linux sounds more like Dell's future than today's market. A future that may involve becoming more like Apple. But today, what does linux do, out of the box, that would make you want to switch your desktop?
I can think of one reason: MythTV. Any others??? Or is this a ten-year plan on Dell's part?
People are stupid. Why do you think people run out and buy a $40,000 SUV while gas prices are nearing $4 a gallon and the only use is to get groceries and haul around their 1.5 kids? Why do you think people are running out to buy a hybrid, when right now the best technology we can implement for the batteries only suggest a life of 3 years and the battery is the majority of the value of the car? Same people are buying computers. Why do you think some of the worst systems make the most money? The average person doesn't know DDR RAM from a Dodge RAM, so when they walk in to buy a system they look at 3 key things: Price, Style, and Prestige. If the laptop looks like a brown box with lights, but boasts the best stats in the world, they average consumer will walk right past it for the Dell or HP that looks cuter. The operating system is all part of the style of the machine. If the OS looks good but not intimidating, they will love it. When it comes to price, if the laptop costs $900 with XP and a system costs $800 with Linux, they will most likely go with the cheaper solution (provided they are not looking for specific applications that are windows specific, and the sales person does not down talk the cheaper system for commission). The prestige of a product comes form the water cooler gossip. If the office has a bunch of wanna be techs, then they will be talking up linux like there's no tomorrow. If the office is full of ignorant users, they will probably be down talking linux because they can't figure it out and all they see are limitations. This is the area that will most greatly affect the sales of the systems. If it's "cool" to have more people are likely to buy it. A great example of this is the ipod trend. Ipods are nothing special, in fact they lack 80% of the features of the better MP3/Video players on the market, but they have all 3 areas covered. They are cute and simple, they are cheap, and they are the "cool" thing to have right now.
Was Ubuntu chosen because of one distros community being more vocal then others or was it because it has the best compatibility with hardware. Sure Ubunty might be the most popular distro atm but seems like with Linux this changes quite often and I always see the "flavor of the month" distros appear and loose their ground quite often.
What will Dell do if another distro takes the number one spot?
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Yeah, yeah. Infantile, lame, redundant. I couldn't help myself.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
Adding stores could increase sales, and if they think it will, then they should!
...; and the store has the option to RETURN unsold systems to DELL. So machines coming back to Dell are worth less. Another way to look at things is that stores mean a lot more inventory, and inventory is generally considered a poor use of money, inventory tends to depreciate.
Dell used to have one advantage from highly optimized logistics. IIRC, the time between receiving parts and shipping them in a finished computer was typically about 3 days. But this is something that traditional competitors can/have adopted as well, it fits with both direct and retail models.
Dell used to have another advantage by being highly customizable. Now nearly everyone has online build-to-order.
Dell used to have, or maybe still has, an advantage by focusing on more "sophisticated" buys. "Sophisticated" as in people who have had a computer before, first time buys need more support. In-store buyers are more likely to be first timers.
Dell has an AMAZING ADVANTAGE with respect to cash flow and financing. The parts that it buys are on terms where the money is not due for many days after delivery, lets say 30 days to make it a nice round number - it is likely to be far more than that. However Dell bills customer credit cards when a system ships. So, Dell buys parts, ships to customers and collects money 3 days later, and pays for the parts 27 days later (30 since arrival). They don't need to have any cash/credit on hand to buy parts. This is the real advantage of the direct model. However, when you sell through stores you lose this advantage. Dell would have to give terms to retailers, lets say 60 days - its likely to be more than that. Now Dell needs to use cash or get credit to pay for those parts. Now it gets worse. As those machines sit in the store they lose value. CPU prices drop, faster CPUs come out, video card prices drop, faster video cards come out,
As soon as it's an option, I'm buying one. I'll probably buy several for personal use this year. You should too.
If my preferred vendor doesn't get on this train they've lost my business. It's about giving the customer what they want. It's about freedom, not price. Now I've got to go download Feisty and get used to it so it'll be familiar when my Dell comes.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
1. You can now more easily sell your boss on Linux machines. You finally have a dealer he trusts so you can say look boss they have these machines that are less expensive and the same quality product with a different OS. This will save on licensing fees and in other areas. We should buy this next time we upgrade. 2. The average bargain tech user may buy. The college kid who just wants to write papers and surf facebook and wants to spend as little as possible. 3. Universities who need computers for students to just write papers. 4. Me. I'm concerned about cost, security and ease of use (for the wife's sake) 5. It may nudge Linux into an ease of use war leading to more drivers, and more software that is compatible with MS style formats (realplayer, windows media, office...etc) 6. It could awaken companies to make software for more than windows and Mac (when they bother) It will need to be a ground roots effort. I will encourage my friends to buy one of these when the time comes and I will buy one.
...the next pc I`ll buy, it`s gonna be from Dell.
How about Ubuntu pre-installed with a "pile of craplets" Windows installer CD, and a note asking the consumer really, really, really nicely to install it on someone's Windows box?
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
"offer Ubuntu pre-loaded on certain consumer-oriented desktops and notebooks."
In other words, on machines that will be offered only on hidden pages of their website so only a select few will know about it. That way when they only sell 10 machines loaded with Ubuntu. I can see their press release now "Ubuntu, a distribution of Linux has been available for 6 months on select machines. Unfortunately we can no longer support this option due to lack of interest. For those interested in an inexpensive Operating System we will be offering Vista Basic edition."
Ubuntu has this huge silly grassroots thing right now
Remember when AOL users started getting on the internet? I hope thats not what the Ubuntu forums look like in six months time when the Dell users start logging on.
Actually, joking aside, I think this is great news, but I don't think it will lead to an influx of new linux users, at least not at first. What this will do is give us an idea of the present market size for pre-installed linux systems. If these sell well enough other manufactures will follow suit, and then, finally, the hardware vendors might start supporting Linux.
"I realise this is not a very popular opinion but it's the truth, and there for needs to be said" -Bill Hicks
I want more desktop OS options and my laptop is a dual-boot Kubuntu/Debian Testing install, so this isn't a troll.
The few users who are going to actively decide to buy a Ubuntu/Dell product (paying more for it) and haven't run Ubuntu before will be quite surprised to find out:
1. Ubuntu is buggy. What's worse is the bugs are big gotchas right on top. Buggier than Debian's Testing.
2. Windows is probably less cosmetically buggy and will only get better by the important Q4 sales. Meanwhile, Ubuntu has rushed onto the next version. (Like when I was prompted to upgrade to *beta* software last week.)
3. What's Mark's business model?
4. Is Mark going to have support minions waiting by the phone when they can't get their printers to work? Or will it be the usual "24-hour support" meaning those really thorough how-to's that kind of apply to your situation and unfinished threads in their forums.
5. What will Microsoft give to Dell to sweeten the pot and shut out Linux?
I would be very surprised if this is an instant financial jackpot for Dell. Will Ubuntu's warts become a big liability for Dell? "Profit or liability?" is how ubuntu lives/dies in corporate meetings in a few months time.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
I can happily use Linux for most desktop stuff, but I still "need" Windows to play my games. I want to get the Linux certified hardware, but I also want OEM pricing on my Vista license. I don't want to have to go buy Vi$ta Ultimate retail.
So here is the dilemma: - I want the linux hardware and they will probably only offer it with Linux OS. But I want the Vista OS too at OEM pricing. If I buy the Vista box, that is a lost sale for Linux. If I buy the Linux box, I have to go spend extra money for Vista.
Hopefully Dell will offer pre-loaded dual boot or a Linux-ready box with Vista that will count as a "Linux" sale
[Cue monkey boy dance]. The biggest benefit that could come out of this for *all* Linux users would be better hardware support. If manufactures think that "Hey, no Linux driver means we're not supporting part of Dell's consumer line" they might get serious about writing (open?) drivers or at least making it easier for the community to support their stuff.
:-) It would be so great if you could just assume that any random printer would totally work with Linux...
And if Linux can end up being 5% of Dell's consumer sales (though even that might be optimistic) it's going to have a huge effect - because Dell is more likely to bundle stuff that will work with their entire line, not just 95% of it. Supporting one type of hardware is cheaper than two. (Though, of course, so it supporting only one kind of OS, which is how we got here
Hook me on the application and I'll run DOS if I have to. In fact I still do sometimes.
Yeah Bro, you're clueless.
I'll preface this by saying I'm using Linux right now. I'm a big Slack fan. I'm using OpenSUSE for my desktop right now though. I know when Dell put that page up to get suggestions some said that Linux fanboys were bombarding it suggesting Linux. Well this is the real test. If they did do that then this may bomb big time. If Dell doesn't sell many with Linux that's kind of embarrassing. I do hope that it wasn't used that way and we really are seeing a wave of people wanting Linux. Time will tell.
works for some products, but not everything. Your coke/pepsi/generic cola example is about a cheap and quickly consumed product. If they don't really like the generic,it will only last a short while and is cheap enough that they can toss it out if it is truly horrible.
Where windows/linux is concerned, let me relate a recent experience. My nephew just moved out of his parents house and out from behind the router and firewall I had configured. He got dsl and hooked it up to straight from the modem and into his computer. Guess what? Within three days he couldn't run either IE or firefox, they would just crash when launched. Before, he hadn't really appreciated the delicate nature of windows or the importance of a good firewall.
I installed the newly released Ubuntu 7.04 and he is tickled. He can do everything that he needs with totally free (in every respect) software. I showed him some windows games running under wine on my laptop and he was interested, but since he is now working and going to school, games are not as important. We haven't even bothered fixing his winxp install yet. His roommate was watching me setup Beryl and was asking a lot of questions about this linux thing, completely surprised at the maturity and features of the new Ubuntu. Brand awareness of Windows and Microsoft is very high with both of those guys, but seeing the differences in action has greatly tempered any effects of that awareness.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
Linspire wins on this too. They now have a much bigger market for Click-n-Run with Dell and Ubuntu.
A while back there was a story about the Linspire Click-n-Run being ported to Ubuntu. Not a big technical leap since Linspire and Ubuntu and both Debian derivatives.
So now companies will probably pay to get top placement on CnR. I'll bet it will go like this --- when you open CnR to install a word processor, you'll probably see commercial software listed in the top several spots and you'll have to page down to see freeware like OpenOffice or AbiWord.
That is not necessarily a bad thing. Making money will get companies to write more software for Linux, which is a good thing because it will speed Linux adoption.
Dell wouldn't release their machines with an operating system that didn't include fully functional hardware drivers. So regardless of which distro they choose to ship, the distro's chosen hardware setup tool doesn't really matter.
Bear in mind, since Dell will be releasing official Linux drivers for all of their hardware, why wouldn't it be possible to carry those drivers across to any other distro?
And actually, truth-be-told, I'm typing this message on a Dell laptop running Kubuntu. Setting it up was the easiest installation experience I have ever had. All of the hardware worked perfectly out of the box (audio, keyboard audio controls, ethernet, wifi). The unusual widescreen resolution was the only thing that wasn't readily working, but that was fixed with a quick 'sudo apt-get install 955resolution' and a restart of X11.
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People are stupid. Why do you think people run out and buy a $40,000 SUV while gas prices are nearing $4 a gallon and the only use is to get groceries and haul around their 1.5 kids? Why do you think people are running out to buy a hybrid, when right now the best technology we can implement for the batteries only suggest a life of 3 years and the battery is the majority of the value of the car?
Actually people are now buying little microcompacts, like the Toyota Yaris and Chevy Aveo, in huge quantities now. The little Chevy's sales are up by 53% from last year and up 44% in just Q1 of 2007 alone. The little Toyota's sales are up a whopping 463% over last year's sales of the model.
Something about getting 35-40 mpg(highway) in a basic transportation car that costs only $15K brand new is mighty appealing when fuel prices go north of $3/gallon.
Don't confuse the slashdot population versus the general population. The general population never even got enough of a whiff of vista to stop buying PCs with it on it.
You are right, but that's because people here have not seen anything to justify the cost of Vista. At the very least, "everyone" knows to avoid Vista till M$ cleans it up, drivers are written for it and there are enough applications that work to make it worth while. At worst for M$, the free software message of freedom has convinced many that digital restrictions are costly and unacceptable.
I have nothing against Linux but the fanboism is really starting to stink up the place.
That's nothing next to Microsoft spam posts and astroturf.
Really though, if you don't have GNU/Linux as your primary home desktop right now, you have something against Linux. The only thing M$ has over GNU/Linux is accelerated video drivers, but Nvidia and ATI have those for you and the overall effort is no more or less than that required to set up and keep running a Windoze box. Dell's move into the scene might even eliminate that difference, because they will take the time to get all that non free shit to work. Outside that, gnu/linux networking, applications and window management rule for cost, ease of use and upkeep effort. Technical excellence is in favor of free software and has been for a long time.
Somehow I doubt the more vocal fanbois in this cause are going to take up the banner of actually shelling out the bucks. Mouthpieces normally stop when their toe touches the waters, so to speak.
How many coppies of Vista have you bought? Funny how M$'s revenue uptick did nothing for Dell, now isn't it?
The general population goes where the "experts" tell them. I've got no need for a new computer because my six year old hardware does what I need it to do. People with virused out computers now have a less expensive option that's going to get a lot of recommendations. Think about it. Is the houshold IT guy going to replace his mom's broken XP machine with more of the same or is he going to spare himself all that pain and trobout by getting her a nice little Ubuntu machine that does everything needed out of the box? Hell, I might even be tempted to get something a smaller, quieter in the next year or so and Dell just got on my radar.
The corporate market may move even faster. M$ and Dell expended a lot of effort getting exclusive contracts with government agencies and big companies. Dell offering those people computers that work with anything but M$ has given M$ nightmares since 2002. Good on them! Ha ha.
2007 is the year of GNU/Linux.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
When using Apple's Boot Camp to install Windows, the Apple system will burn you a drivers disk with everything you need for the hardware on the machine to run just fine in Windows. What's to stop them from doing the same thing but for Linux? Granted, I'm not sure why you would want to abandon a slick BSD-derived O/S for Linux, but I'm sure there are lots of folks out there who would, and would love to have the built-in iSight and two-finger scroll Just Work(tm) with Ubuntu, Fedora Core, or whatever flavor of Linux Apple would want to support.
My desired answers are:
How am I going to watch... um, never mind.
Dell To Offer Ubuntu
LONDON, 1st May 2007 - Canonical and Dell are pleased to announce a partnership to offer Ubuntu 7.04 on select desktop and notebook products. This is a tremendous step forward for Ubuntu, our users and customers. More about the announcement is available on the Dell website. We believe that Dell's decision is a strong endorsement of Ubuntu and to the work of many in coding, translating and promoting open source software. It is also testament to the demand that exists for Ubuntu. Canonical is honoured to play a leading role in making Linux more widely available to everyone. Jane Silber Canonical - Director of Operations
Just guessing, but it might have something to do with this:
http://www.linuxmce.com/
Ramen
To you and a couple of the other repliers:
My point is that Joe doesn't need the Genuine Areo Experience(TM) to check his email, and he knows this. If he's aware that there's a $400 computer that can do what his last $400 computer does, he's going to consider it. I'm talking about a lower-spec machine than the Vista Ready one.
If he's nervous about this "ubuntu" thingy he might opt for the support contract
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
From the LinuxMCE Wiki:
s
http://wiki.linuxmce.com/index.php/Encrypted_DVD'
"The LinuxMCE that ships out of the box has a DVD player and DVD storage built-in, however it only works with DVD's that are not copy-protected with the CSS system. Admittedly this means most commercial DVD's will not work. You can insert a non-CSS encrypted DVD, play it, watch it, hit the 'copy' button to copy it to the server, and then watch it from the server without the physical disk.
If you determine that is legal in your area to do the same thing with encrypted DVD's, there are widely available software add-ons that bypass the CSS copy protection so that encrypted DVD's work just the same as non-encrypted DVD's. You can search the internet for "LinuxMCE libdvdcss" and find links to them, including instructions for Add Software?
Ramen
I have a new Dell laptop with Windows Vista. I give it to my wife, and her first comment is that it's slow. (It has the new Pentium core duo!) And I find that I'm running into the IP connection limit all of the time in Vista home basic. However, there are just a few things for which I need Windows, and I can't emulate it because it doesn't like that (e.g. playing DVDs). I will soon attempt to dual boot Ubuntu Linux or Fedora Linux and Windows Vista, but I would really LOVE it if Dell would have installed it in dual boot mode for me. I would have paid up to $99 for it. I'm actually using my old laptop now, because I'm afraid of destroying the recovery partition and getting into warranty trouble.
The world will not get better through technology. We must seek to be better people.
I'm excited, I can't wait to get one. If I can get a laptop pre-loaded with OpenOffice and drivers for everything (bluetooth, wi-fi, audio, video) that just work, that will be awesome. I really hope they set the 3d desktop as the default... I wonder if they'll find a ton of crap to preload though like they do for windows.
What would be a HUGE seller though is if they added an option to have a working WOW install with the BC expansion... I could finally get rid of Windows for good :)
I installed OpenSuSE 10.2 onto my brand new $500 Toshiba laptop that came with XP Home and a free upgrade coupon for Vista. The upgrade coupon immediately went into the trash. Everything on this laptop works perfect with OpenSuSE 10.2, I was f'ing amazed at that. Absolutely no hardware issues at all. Even the freakin battery meter and power-saving crap works equally well as under XP.
Good luck to Dell - I predict the support costs are going to kill them. Just wait until the calls start coming in because the bought-it-cause-it-was-cheaper dorks can't get Turbotax or the $29 Typing tutor they bought at Costco to install. It's a lose-lose - if they actually sell to the mainstream, the support costs will be huge, OR they'll only sell to the wannabe geeks and a few small-shop IT managers. In the long-run I doubt it moves the needle on the M$ market share.
Bundle MS and you'll complain you don't want to pay for the OEM license.
Give you MS-free option and you then complain you're losing the cheap OEM license.
*bangs head on desk*
I want one. I need a low-end laptop with Linux. Nothing all that elaborate, just something for remote use, OpenOffice Impress, and stuff like that. Something with a price tag in the $600-$700 range, not the $2000 range.
And WiFi that works out of the box. That's the important thing. If you have to edit files in /etc, they've failed.
This is a good thing for all of the Linux community, even those who use other distributions. Dell will now have to be sure its hardware works with the Linux kernel. Computers with components that won't work in Linux will likely not be on the select list that Linux is offered for. Hardware manufacturers will then have a tiny bit more pressure on them to make sure their chips and cards and stuff will work with at least some Linux driver, even if that happens to be a binary-only driver. And as this helps increase the percentages of people using Firefox, more web site developers will have to shift away from making Explorer-only pages and start following web standards. As more people use OpenOffice, more documents can be released in an open standards format, and those who release them in proprietary formats will face more criticism.
So even if you intend to install some other Linux distribution on your Dell computer, or even if you use a non-Dell computer, this is good for you. Even if you prefer Windows, you'll benefit by competitive pressure on Microsoft forcing them to have to do better next time.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
We have yet to see how much pre-bundled trial software Dell is going to throw onto these things.
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
I have bought a couple thousand. They come with RHEL.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Now we can focus on getting them to pre-install the AmigaOS.
Then after that, OS/2 Warp!!!
This is a *huge* step for Linux, as a whole. Being pushed by a major desktop PC manufacturer is something we should all be celebrating and embracing, no matter what our differences in opinion are. People are getting a *real choice* is software now, and that includes open-source.
WOOHOO!!
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
...the name "Ubuntu" keep reminding anyone else about that old "Death by Bunga-Bunga" joke.
This deals can be really a turning point in the OEM-Linux relation. Although we are all cheering about it, we must keep in mind the importance of such deal. It must work. If it won't (not enough sales, major support problems, etc) that would be the end of the "linux on the desktop" agenda. If it does work, however, that could mean that more OEM would probably follow, and that could change the market significantly. In any case, I am more concerned the negative outcome, and I am keeping my finger crossed.
Ubuntu/Canonical CAN'T do this unless they either stick with an old, static version of the kernel, or else they get hold of the source code for the drivers that break.... but guess what? ... those drivers (especially for latest/greatest video cards and wireless) are CLOSED SOURCE. So Ubuntu is stuck unless they join in the effort to write our own drivers or else boycott proprietary hardware, but it looks like many Ubuntu users don't get this point.
Ubuntu on Linux will be nothing but a sad memory by the end of the year, if not sooner.
Why Linux freaks/MS haters/Slashdotters will refuse to buy it:
1) Most won't touch it unless it's significantly cheaper than a similar Windows PC and they'll hit the roof if it costs more (many posters have already said this on the thread).
2) People that don't like Ubuntu for whatever reason will avoid it because it isn't Slack or Fedora or whatever.
Why it won't catch on with the casual user:
1) They may buy it if it's cheaper but if Dell prices them the same price or higher as a Windows machine, Joe Average will avoid them from the get-go. Why spend extra money on an unknown quantity?
2) Tech support. Most people that buy computers today don't want to fiddle with them -- they want them to work. They want to go down to Best Buy and buy a game and they expect it to work. They want to use the old all-in-one printer they've used with the old computer. They want to open up a document they brought home from work. Not every neophyte has a friendly Slashdot user by their side willing to help them through their first Linux box. I expect a lot of "teach me how to use Linux" tech support calls to Dell ("why doesn't my printer work" "why can't I play game X" "why do my old Word documents look weird") if they sell enough of these machines.
3) Of course, Dell may just get tired of paying for those tech support calls too -- I foresee either really long tech support wait times or a "fee-based non-warranty support" line for Joe User. Then Mr. Casual User can rely on the ever-friendly help from the Linux online community. (Shudder)
I think Dell is doing this as a "let's give it a try and if it fails we can finally tell all those Linux zealots to take a flying leap" plan. Linux is a aficionado's OS and probably always will be (of course, I think that a lot of people who like to talk about "Linux on the desktop" would prefer it that way).
Someone ... might like the idea of having all that done for them so they get a sqeaky-clean install that works out of the box?
We have a winner. This is why Windows and Macintosh have had commercial success in the desktop market while Linux flails: the computer works out of the box... The big problem with Linux distros is a lack of usable, pre-installed software and working drivers. Users have never liked or understood command lines.
Yeap, most people don't install an OS, instead they use the OS that was preinstalled. As more OEMs provide Linux preinstalled PCs more people will use it. Of course at first it'll be those who are adventurous. But then when they see it can do just about as much as a Windows PC and won't crash other they know will be willing to give it a try too.
And Windows wins out of the two because PCs are cheaper than Macs.
You haven't checked out the prices of Macs lately have you? Similarly configured Macs and PCs run head to head in prices. Of course there is a problem with Macs, there isn't the range of configurations that are available on PCs. A glariing hole is a mid range Mac that's expandable, something between the iMac and Mac Pro.
The only thing missing is some form of Bootcamp: Linux Edition (UboontuCamp? nah...) so people can play their games.
There are a number of bootloaders that can be used with both Linux and Windows including Lilo. Though I only have Windows on my PC for an OS I also have V Com's System Commander from which I could choose what OS I wanted to boot if I had more than one.
FalconShould there be a Law?
2) maintain its own repositories, guarantee everything keeps working, but then if you upgrade things like your video card you have to link in to new repositories, and god help you (pretty unlikely since 8 computer models down the line this could be a serious pita)
Actually it's #4: something else entirely?
Dell "customers will have the option to purchase support from Ubuntu backer Canonical, said Jane Silber, the start-up's director of operations."
FalconShould there be a Law?
I couldn't find a link to any of those aforementioned notebooks. Which models are they? Where can I get them? Is it just announced with yet-to-happen availability or what?
I imagine that Dell chose Ubuntu for primarily two reasons (whether Canonical approached them or not is unimportant):
If you consider that OpenSUSE is still somewhat entangled by Novell's agreement with Microsoft and that RedHat has their own level of corporate encumbrances (not to mention it's fallen out of the spotlight a bit) then Ubuntu was the most (only?) logical choice for Dell -- no strings, corporate backing, very popular, new fancy release with a pretty Vista-like interface (if Desktop effects are on).
If things go south, they can just drop Canonical like a sack of potatoes and move back to selling Vista exclusively -- very little risk involved.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Here's an idea. Instead of doing the same old thing and trolling Slashdot for fun, maybe you can stop talking the talk and walk the walk for a change. Buy a machine. If you don't "need" one, give it away. Better yet, get together with friends or family, buy a few and donate them to a school in need. Or low-income families. This time around they get support from a large company. Hell, buy one and ship to to Peru or something.
Do something instead of just carrying on about how "M$ is teh badd" on Slashdot. Judging from your posting history your life seems to be consumed by that for some reason.
The twitter monologues. Click on my homepage and be amazed.
I *want* the bundled MS license. I'm almost certain to use the box as a dual boot system. I'm fully prepared to pay for the license, because I'll probably end up paying for it anyway since they have a history of charging the same or greater price for the linux boxes. With OEM pricing, it is usually transparent as part of the overall price of the box. That is OK with me since I want the software. But I don't want to have to pay the same price for a Linux box as for a Windows box and then have to go out and drop another $399 for a full install retail version of Vista Ultimate on top of what I've already paid.
Let me pay normally for the OEM installed Windows and pay a "slight-bit-more" for dual boot on Linux certified and supported hardware.
NTLDR, the Windows bootloader
Yea, my NT box uses the Windows bootloader. On my other Windows box I have V Com's System Commander.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Really though, if you don't have GNU/Linux as your primary home desktop right now, you have something against Linux
This is false. Right now I'm typing this on a Windows PC and it's currently my primary PC however I prefer Linux. I've got two other PCs, one is more than 10 years old and it's dualboot with Windows NT4 and Redhat. However I haven't even booted it up in at least a couple of years. My other PC I got several months ago and it came with Linux preinstalled. However I'm still not ready to use it as my primary computer, for various reasons.
FalconShould there be a Law?
I would argue that hardware problems are the real obstacle preventing mass adoption of linux.
I disagree, the primary obstacle to more widespread Linux adoption is in having, er not having, Linux preinstalled on PCs. Most people don't buy a PC then install an OS, they want a PC with an OS already installed. So as more OEMs ship PCs with Linux preinstalled I bet there'll be an increase in people using Linux.
FalconShould there be a Law?
One more reason why Assbuntu is Fedora/GNAA as the major community-led Linux distribution that aims to be easy to use.
I'm all for this, and may even buy a Latitude if they offer one with Ubuntu. But the real benefit is the standardization of the hardware. If every controller, nic, video, and usb device will work with Ubuntu, then my hope is the OpenBSD guys will be able to make them work with OpenBSD. I hate having to wonder if some wireless nic is going to be supported, because nobody releases the specs for the programming interface, or if there is going to be a problem with the built-in video.
Open Specifications! I know Linux has lots of drivers developed under NDA, and the GPL and all, but this is a step forward.
I don't have Linux as my primary home desktop because Windows works better for me. Do you understand that? I. Prefer. Windows. To. Linux.
I now understand that you know nothing about GNU/Linux on the desktop and wish you would shut up about it. I've been using gnu/linux since 1999, exclusively at home since 2001 or so, and could tell you things if you were not so busy FUDing up the place.
When I search for 'Ubuntu installing new nVidia drivers' I get this doozy as a result: [some sorry story]
If you had asked, I'd have told you that Mepis or Xandros are easier and more vetted than a student script run as root. Of course, I'd also ask why you thought you needed such a thing and probably learned that you did not.
Ignorance and malice are often linked. Thanks for the update, Macthorpe. Oh yeah, do you smoke?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Dell will need to address this, and offer these dellbuntu boxes at lower price. the OS is free! if they need to include a price to cover support costs, it should still not be equal to or greater than the cost of including Vista!
If Dell is like other OEM's they'll still be paying Microsoft for a Vista license for every Linux machine sold - they pay per unit sold, not per unit shipped with Vista.
The best part is they make the customer pay extra for support to Canonical - Microsoft get the license fee, Dell gets out of support, and the customer pays more for linux.
Quite a pyrrhic victory. Maybe it's time to patronize the local whitebox builder, eh?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I want machines without any software! Just the hardware and the BIOS, why is so hard to understand? They just need an option in there commerce software, the option "none" for OS and "none" to productivity software!!
Ok, Ubuntu is a linux, but's not the linux I want, so I just want my machine without any software, and I believe most linux/freebsd users would love that.
ghostbar page.
My parent was just aimed at /. in general.
I want windows (and Vista Ultimate is quite lovely), but would do occasionally dabble with other OS.
Main problem with them is that I always seem to end up with one driver that refuses to work and I give up. Maybe the big coup here isn't that Dell give you the option of having Ubuntu over Vista for a few dollars less, it's that they guarantee that the machine you buy will be able to run Ubuntu (should you so wish).
The number of people who'll dabble with Ubuntu on a Dell machine (if Dell tell them it'll work) is far far greater than the number of people who want to buy a Dell with Ubuntu only to save a few dollars.
Satan searches for a pair of ice skates and portable space heater...
~CYD
//Nothing to see here, please move along.
Why not just buy two computers? Laptop = desktop stuff. Desktop = games. Problem solved.
> primary home desktop right now, you have something
> against Linux.
Are you for real? Who the hell would say something like that??
And what's with the "M$ Winbloze LOLOL" thing? You didn't get the memo? We stopped doing that five years ago. How many dolar signs do you need to use before you lose all credibility?
Please!
...and that's if Dell actually goes out on an advertising blitz and informs people of this. Otherwise it'll go the way of their e-series, where it makes its way to some hidden page that can't be found unless you spend a significant amount of time searching for it.
Now Linux users can finally say, "Dude, You're getting a Dell"
\
I now understand that you know nothing about Windows on the desktop and wish you would shut up about it. I've been using Windows since 1993, exclusively at home since 1996 or so, and could tell you things if you were not so busy FUDing up the place.
Hmmm, telling people about Windows on a free software site dedicated to advancing gnu/linux is ... flambait.
Just the same, there's not much about Windoze you can tell me. I got my first computer in the 1980s and started my long waste of time with DOS in 1988. I'm still forced to use various incarnations of the monster at work, thank you. While Vista is not on anyone's menu yet, I've seen it attempt to work more than once. Really, the things I tell you about Windoze come from distasteful experience.
That stuff about smoking sounds personal, but keep it up. It matches your computer use. Smoking:Lungs, Windows:Computer.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I want to be as excited about this as anybody. I'm a HUGE Ubuntu fan since the release of Feisty, I've installed it on literally a dozen machines at least already. I'm switching over as many people as I can as fast as I can. But compared to other notebooks being offered:
The Dell ones aren't as sleek as the mac notebooks, hardware wise. But they are nearly as spendy.
They don't have cameras. Most other notebooks do, these days, the macs being a good example (again).
They are overpriced. I can get a GREAT HP laptop for about $500, and then install Ubuntu myself.
I mean, this is a great first step, but I'm not buying one. Not till they:
A. Come way down in price.
B. Come with a webcam built in.
C. Have a metal shell, instead of plastic.
D. Are cheaper/better than the competition in some way.
Kudos to Dell for listening to their customers, now maybe let's try and remain competitive in other areas as well, because otherwise, this Ubuntu preinstall will still be a failed experiment, and not because of Ubuntu, which is great, but because the laptops are under-featured and over-priced.
rhY
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
I'm really happy to hear about Dell's move..
I have a Dell Inspirion 6400. It works beautifully with Ubuntu 7.04. Suspend and hibernate are two big things for me, and they work flawlessly. NetworkManager picks up all the local wireless networks and switches to wired network when I plug in a cable. Beryl is rock stable on this machine. The card reader (another big thing for me) also works perfectly and the battery lasts about as long as it does in windows (6.5 hours..). I really have absolutely no need for windows on this machine at all, but I was unable to purchase it without windows.
I also have a Dell PowerEdge sc430 (I was able to buy this machine without an OS). I run Ubuntu 7.04 on it as well (server install). Again, everything works perfectly.
I have to wonder if Dell has been checking their hardware against Linux lately. Their hardware should not be hard to support at all..
Hmm.. bummer.
I also have a Dell Inspirion 6400 (no ati though) and it works flawlessly - card reader and all. I didn't have to do any setup for wifi either, just works out of the box.
They may have already changed their hardware, my Inspirion is about a month old. The card reader shows up as a usb device...
How's a bunch of software designed for PDAs going to help people who have full-size Tablet PCs, which need full-size yet stylus-friendly applications?
Xstroke is a very good handwriting recognition tool. It works full screen over X and all of the software modified for PDA's can also run with larger screens. Try it some time.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Stallman's response is a disingenous "well you have to draw the line somewhere" and he wants the line drawn where he think it fits best.
Where did you expect him to draw it?
Integrity is what you are when nobody is looking.
watch the number of posts that have gone from +5 to near nothing because of "over rated" mods. odd that they're all honest about linux and not screaming lunitics who make it sound like linux will be sold on 90% of all future dell pcs.
and cmdrdildo talks about censorship and fair play in the media? give me a break.
and linux is still for fags.
Allow me to translate the previous conversation:
And you wonder why you constantly get Troll moderations, Twitter?
Do you think its because, maybe, just maybe, YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE?!
Go ahead, mod me down all you want. I'm sure your fucking sock-puppet account has some points. I don't give a fuck anymore. Twitter, you have so completely poisoned this place that I can't possibly care.
Nothing but sanctimonious, tactless bile and hatred. A grown man acting like a 7-year-old on a daily basis.
AND YOU'RE FUCKING PROUD OF IT, TWITTER! How fucking sad is that?
You love to spread your hatred. You feed on all the negativity you inflict on us. And I'll be DAMNED before I let it poison me any longer.
Guess, what, Twitter. I'm going to continue to use every operating system I can get my hands on, whether it be Linux, Windows, or Mac OS. I will continue to base my personal IT decisions on suitability to task. I will not worship a fucking software license like it was a god.
AND THERE ISN'T A FUCKING THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT, YOU LITTLE SHIT.
Save your snarky reply. Don't waste your time on one of your patented juvenile posting-of-links distortions. They are meaningless. You are meaningless.
Damn, that felt good.
This sig intentionally left blank.
to most people who have to run legacy Windoze apps. With dual boot, it always seems that the next app you need to open is always on the other OS. Unless one is a serious gamer, running a Windows VM rather than a dual boot is more useful. I also thought that Apple's decision to sell Boot Camp instead of preinstalling VMware Server was moderately stupid. With a desktop virtual machine setup, one cuts and pastes on a share clipboard between apps on different OSs. (one can also run a Windows app and a *nix app on the same file at the same time... VERY carefully)
I don't see any reason why they couldn't offer VMware Server with Windows (preferably, XP, though a VM might even tame Vista) installed in a VM and dual boot with a preinstalled Windows.
Or simply preinstall VMware Server, set up the speed optimizations and a shared SAMBA Linux/Windows filespace (easy if you know how, but a pain to dig up the info) and let customers load Windows onto it (works with everything from DOS to Vista 64-bit) who actually want it.
The CEO of Dell has a laptop with Ubuntu and VMware Workstation on it... I assume that the VM isn't set up to give Michael Dell an advance look at Solaris or OpenBSD. So somebody at Dell Inc. knows how to set up VMware with Windows. I think they should share this with all their Ubuntu customers
I suspect that after word got around, even people with no interest in Ubuntu would buy the VMware combination simply to get a reliable, stable Vista and run Vista full-screen.
I personally run the notoriously insecure and unstable Windows 98SE on VMware Server over Debian (testing)... it is now neither unstable nor insecure... and I've got the speed optimizations and shared filespace I talked about earlier. But I only use it for a handful legacy apps, by and large, the Linux stuff is better.
Tech Public Policy stuff
It's not for him to draw.
The CEO is using Ubuntu on the 17" screen laptop he (or more likely, household help) hauls around his estate. I'm pretty sure he's actually using it because he's running VMware Workstation... meaning that he's most likely running a Windows VM. So he's got access to the Linux apps he's learning and to Windows legacy apps. If he simply wanted to scare MS, he could load up Ubuntu, announce that he owns a Ubuntu box, and stick the computer in a closet until he got the price break from MS and after that, he has somebody install Windows.
Why would he be learning Ubuntu and Linux apps? Because he knows that Windoze is a PITA and believes Linux is the Next Big Thing.
Tech Public Policy stuff
You just click on a fucking MP3 on Ubuntu, and it will automaticly download all the codecs!, same goes for video, and java/flash install even easier than in Windows...
Is it sell to Dell machines with Ubuntu? I like it whatever..
VMware Server-beta for Linux and let people figure out for themselves whether to install Windows (DOS through 64-bit Vista), Solaris, or some Linux flavor (preconfigured for almost everything) in a VM... or all of the above in multple VMs if they've got enough memory. No need to reboot and a shared clipboard between guest(s) and hosts.
Once the Linux platform gets big enough, there will be Linux apps people who run Windows or OSX are really going to need sooner or later because they aren't out for either OSX or Windows.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Ubuntu is Debian-based, meaning apt-based software installation instead of rpm. Automated installation via repository is so much easier than it is in rpm-based distros (Fedora, RHEL, SuSE/SLED) that you couldn't pay me to switch back to Fedora or SuSE based distros... apt-get practically never flakes out and handles dependencies right practically all the time.
Software installation that Just Works (IMO, superior to either rpm or Windows - never tried OSX) is A Really Good Idea for Linux newbies.
Tech Public Policy stuff
You want Wifi on out of the box and don't want to edit files in /etc? Why don't you just post a sign on your front door. "FREE INTERNET"
Ops, I shuld have usd the prevuwe but in.
The prefix pre means "before". Pre-loaded means "before it was loaded". You can't load Unbuntu before you load it. Pre-heat means "before there is heat". Pre-owned means "before it was owned"... which is to say... NEW, not used. Think of it this way, pre sort of means "not yet".
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
Yes, congrats to the puling masses of the zealotry for swaying the thinking of Dell.
Now comes the hard part: actually getting people to buy Dell computers with Lunix on them. That's going to be the trick, and likely where the plan falls apart. Your average Lunix d00d can't even afford a used Toshiba- that's really why he is so hype about a free operating system. You think the Lunix d00d is going to actually BUY a laptop? Maybe if he can convince mummy and duddy to buy it for him, but that's about it.
This will last one, maybe two years. By then, Dell will declare the time and energy of dealing with Lunix to be a complete and utter bust, and hopefully fire the self-deluding 'tards who proposed this in the first place.
I just don't want to bother with trying to get it to work myself.
I prefer the term circusware.
Me lost me cookie at the disco.
You will soon need to add the Vista bootloader to that list.
Unless I have to or MS changes it's policies I will not get anymore MS Windows OSes, including Vista. I hate being treated like a criminal which is what MS is doing. That's what Activation and WGA/WPA are all about.
FalconShould there be a Law?
I found it at http://www.ubuntutribe.com./ They say they are developing a movie called Ubuntu Tribe. A love story between a window and a penguin. There is a trailer too. ;)