To add to the previous commenter, it also counts on how the drops are attributed by show.
Pick any major network show in the US, and drop it's viewership by a million or two, and people will be VERY concerned. Every ratings point is worth big bucks. Take the numbers from your prime-time (i.e. costly to produce, highest ad revenue) programs, and the crying turns to wailing.
You mean lower prices increased demand? Someone should tell economists about this!!!
One could also argue a decent E3 showing, or the fact that the kiddies have had time to save up their summer lawn mowing money are responsible for the increase.
Every time I read arguments like this, the first thing to mind is Fountain. Note: voted the most influential artwork of the 20th century.
If a urinal is the most influential piece of art in a century, do we really care about "high art" anymore?
I have this recollection of a man standing in front of something really stupid and screaming "ART!!!" at it. I don't remember what it was from (I'm sure someone will tell me), but it reinforces the point that "artists" will insist everything is art, just because they made it.
The magic words are "probable cause". Much can be accomplished in the name of probable cause, including civil asset freezing / forfeiture. You might need a warrant, but if all you need is probable cause, it's probably not that hard.
I believe the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act of 2000 raised the burden of proof to "preponderance of the evidence", which is a positive. But I believe they can still freeze for 60 days, pending a court telling them that they can't. They're just required to tell you about it. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I have time to read the whole thing right now.
However, the law seems to still be all over the place, as the drug laws and organized crime laws frequently have their own provisions for asset freezing/forfeiture. Beyond that, when you throw in terms like "agent of a foreign nation", it seems like the whole book is thrown out the window (see Reagan/Libya, lots/Iran). Throw in "presidential powers during wartime" and you start reading a whole new book.
Oh, and the Treasury dept. freezes and seizes assets all the time. It's just usually foreign assets, or through the IRS (which I don't believe are warrants, just procedural). Think of all the charities you've possibly heard of the last few years who's assets were frozen due to "suspected terrorist ties". Of course, those were based on an Executive Order as well. I have yet to read a decision by a court that the funds must be unfrozen (not that it doesn't exist, I just haven't seen it).
Note that the CNN article ends with "The grounds for blocking Global Relief's funds would be disclosed in court, the spokesperson said." That suggests to me that they didn't need to explain it before (i.e. get a warrant).
Oh, and the Coast Guard really was a part of the Treasury (most of the time) until 1967. It's on their web page. I didn't know that either.
The pertinent bit:
Moreover, a defendant's assets may be frozen before conviction based on a finding of probable cause to believe the assets are forfeitable. See, e. g., United States v. $8,850, 461 U.S. 555; Calero-Toledo v. Pearson Yacht Leasing Co., 416 U.S. 663. Indeed, concluding that the Government could not restrain such property would be odd considering that, under appropriate circumstances, the Government may restrain persons accused of a serious offense on a probable-cause finding. See United States v. Salerno, 481 U.S. 739. Pp. 614-616.
why are they not concentrating on that first? Because they have no incentive to. They are the only game in town. I would love to see someone else manage to compete with Nielsen, but I don't see it happening (unless everyone suddenly buys a Tivo).
TV is already their slave, and television isn't exactly a growth industry these days in terms of broadcasters and stations. They are branching out to try and increase revenues.
Sorry, but I'm too lazy to search through four pages of answers to check if this one has been said.
Work gave me a Motorola W315 from Alltel. No camera, clamshell, functional speaker phone, fairly basic. Don't turn on SMS or internet access in the plan, and it really just makes calls. In my area, it has never dropped or missed a call, and the reception has always been excellent. $135 on their website. $0.99 with a 2-year contract.
Probably has a few more buttons than you'd care for, but it doesn't make you use them. I also lock the outside buttons because I got tired of accidentally setting it to vibrate. They also fill up the first 6-ish slots of your contacts with Alltel #'s.
So lets sum up. My mistake was thinking that you might know something I don't (namely that the problem was becoming mainstream), and asking you to elaborate.
Your great contribution was to insult my intelligence, tell me to Google, and assuming that your writing ability accurately portrays anything useful to anyone else. Instead of answering my question with "no, that's not what I meant", you felt it more appropriate to rant and suggest I go look for something that you later say doesn't exist. So yeah, I finally came around to what you were saying, which was, um, nothing. Silly me for thinking there might have been more substance.
So let's add "thinking you might have something worthwhile to say" to my list of sins, shall we?
Have fun in whatever happy place you spend time at after you think you bested some witless buffoon. I'm guessing you're there a lot.
That's a horrible analogy. That's like saying "If you don't value the ability to write automatically on your PC with voice recognition, then you should go back to clay tablets and chisels."
There's a few things in between there. The change is much more subtle. Plus, folks DO still play on the SNES. Mine sadly failed years ago, and my wife made me get rid of it.
A better analogy might be, If I spend $25000 on a car to get me to work, why don't I spend $40000 on a car to get me to work. The answer lies in utility and value. I have to perceive extra value to me for the extra $15K.
Ratatoilli has far better graphics than any videogame... therefor, it must be HARDCORE! Why didn't anyone tell me that rat was hardcore?!? I thought he was French! I gotta run before EB closes!!!
Funny, you take on a whole different persona when ranting. . . much more agreeable when you're not.
Careful, you might get confused with a retarded, rabid, trolling fanboy. You know, the kind that are going to make me stop reading/. comments entirely?
Guess I really should back off on the responses.
On a side note, if you are unfamiliar with them, you might be interested in Gamers with Jobs. More adult conversation on such topics, and I believe most over there fully agree with you. Plus, it's moderated. No flames. Keeps the retarded monkeys out.
I'm not sure Nintendo was ever about tech enthusiasts. I remember having an NES because it was so much cooler than my 2600, and it was just about the only game console out there (at least in my area). By the time the SNES was out, a lot of us "enthusiasts" were busy snatching up the Genesis to sit right next to it. I think Nintendo themselves just kept pumping out their first party stuff, and it was up to the third party folks to support the hardcore. Now they are still releasing that same first party stuff, and the hardcore don't like it. I guess I think of myself as "traditional" as well, and the Wii lineup doesn't bother me at all. New versions of the stuff I grew up with.
On quick thought, I thought my n64 was a waste of money. But Mario64, DK 64, Goldeneye and Ocarina gave me enough play time that it wasn't as bad as I thought. It did make me not buy I GameCube though. By then, I had a PlayStation, but pretty much only played PC games. I didn't buy a PS2 until I could pick one up for under $100 on ebay.
Now, I have MS, Sony, and every PC manufacturer wanting me to drop big bucks to engage in a hobby I don't have as much time for. I would rather cut back on my gaming, and get my daughter fun toys, and take the family on vacation, etc. The $250 Wii price point is very close to the $199 sweet spot, that point where every Tom, Dick and Harry starts buying consoles. I think they gambled a little bit, and would have dropped it to $199 had they sat on shelves. Only time will tell if it goes the way of the 2600 or not. Personally, I think it gives the masses the casual gaming machine to replace their aging "solitaire boxes".
I don't think Nintendo ever left me, I think I left them. They're just being nice enough to let me back in again, now that my tastes have changed, again.
Man, I let this one get away from me, didn't I? Okay, 10 second version. Yeah, it'd be cool if it were HD, but it'd run the price up. Getting Strikers Charged this month (woo online play!), probably get roped into Boogie next month (wife very interested) and definitely looking forward to Mario Kart!
3/4's of what comes up on Google are technical people talking about it, and the two major lawsuits (both of which were more about money than anything). Really didn't get any news articles about it in my results, but our search may vary.
That George W. Bush is President is common knowledge. That General Motors makes cars is common knowledge. That General Motors did significantly more business as a lender is probably not common knowledge.
The fact that every once in a while (usual when they just replaced a HDD in a PC) someone stops by my office and questions the discrepancy in size tells me that it is NOT common knowledge. If it was common knowledge, they wouldn't be asking me. The fact that your tech support friends get calls from irate consumers says that it is not common knowledge. They wouldn't be pissed if they already knew it was coming. Do you think those pissed off customers really listened closely to a base2 explanation and took it to heart? Do you think they even know what base2 is, even after talking with technical support?
It is common knowledge to technical people. It might be common knowledge to others someday, but most of them glaze over when you start talking about base2 vs. base10, and don't care anymore. As someone who works in news, I can tell you why you won't see this in most news sources. It's boring, and it's technical, and most folks don't care.
Again, you are pointing out common knowledge to you and me and most of the folks on/. You are not pointing out common knowledge to the layperson.
So, wanna keep attacking the quality of my education? Or would you rather evaluate the quality of your own questionable rationale for what constitutes common knowledge amongst the laypeople? I'm guessing you'll go for my education again.
Let's go point by point, shall we?
Also models that look like a drawing by a retarded 4th grader are not innovation. Who said that was innovation? Are you trying to imply that having realistic looking stuff in a 1080p FPS is innovative? It's not. Witness, well, the fall lineups of MS and Sony.
I know the kind of people who buy games and I have been to they and their parents' houses. So you know all about the people who buy games huh? Fine, lets ignore statistics all together. Every single family I know personally that owns a Wii has an HDTV. Every single person/family I know that has an Xbox or PS3 does not. Come to think of it, none of their parents have HD televisions either. So if we're going strictly on conjecture, my experience says that you are 100% wrong.
On topic though, Nintendo left the hard core behind when chose to make a GameCube console with a new controller. Nintendo has not made a good console since the Super Nintendo. Actually, I think Nintendo lost the hardcore with the N64. The games just weren't there. Mario64, Goldeneye, and Ocarina were about it. The Playstation buried them under fighting games and Final Fantasy. The Gamecube was their first attempt to do what they appear to be accomplishing with the Wii. Namely, appeal to families instead of the hardcore.
Good luck selling games to my Grandpa, douchebags. I know more twenty somethings with Wii's than seniors. My 70+ father just picked one up, and has already purchased a couple of games and has his eyes on a couple more. I know plenty of folks in the no HD crowd who bought PS2's once the price dropped to $129. Many of those same folks are dying to drop $250 on a Wii. Given that the Wii is already profitable, I'm guessing the douchebags will have to cry themselves to sleep on their huge piles of money.
By all means, don't let facts or economics get in the way of your righteous hardcore indignation.
On the way up the mountain (following the scent), there is a point where you can go left or right. Left goes to a clearing with a tree you can dig under, right continues to go up.
You get to a point where the ledge is just a little too high to climb up. There is an obvious (big might be a stretch) section of it that looks like it wants to fall. You roll into it, and it falls, making a ramp up. I think it is right before you meet the Yeti.
I can't imagine playing it again after finishing it. I tried twice with Ocarina, and stopped about 2/3 of the way through both times.
I just finished the Temple of Time, so I'm guessing that joke will make sense in a little while. . .
I'm sorry, but I consider myself to be partially educated.
Please point me to some of that "common knowledge", and I'm looking for something "layperson".
Not only do I work in IT, but I also work in news, and I can't say I've seen a story about any of this that was really laypeople, and not some techy class action lawyer wanting to get rich.
I think you're all just a bunch of whiny bitches looking for something to piss and moan about. Yeah, that about sums it up in most cases. In fact, that might be the elusive definition of "hardcore gamer".
They reason they spent so much time on Wii Fit is because it's completely new and hasn't really be done before. Dare one say, innovative? I'm guessing many of the "Wii sucks and Wii Fit is stupid" crowd are the same ones who bemoan a lack of "innovation".
I played Unreal Tournament enough to get freakishly good with the sniper rifle. My friends would oft accuse me of cheating. Used to play some CS and Team Fortress as well. In other words, I have the prerequisite skill.
Most FPS games just aren't any fun. Especially online. Especially when you're up against folks who know where every item/jump/spawn/etc. is on every level. They develop cartoonish skills that happen to exploit a certain 'feature' of that particular game. They get that knowledge/skill/"trash talking habit"/etc. by playing the game WAAAAAY more than I ever could. Besides, who needs the grief of spawn point campers and corpse humpers?
The last FPS's I can remember enjoying? Half Life, Deus Ex, and Republic Commando. They were all cool games, prerequisite skills be damned. Haven't seen one in a while that made me want to pick it up, single or multi player.
Slashdot Mirror
They also seem to have a thing for graphics, not Nintendo's strong point right now.
Also from TFA: showing a sharp divergence between the tastes of critics and the console purchasing public Bah, who needs critics really?
To add to the previous commenter, it also counts on how the drops are attributed by show.
Pick any major network show in the US, and drop it's viewership by a million or two, and people will be VERY concerned. Every ratings point is worth big bucks. Take the numbers from your prime-time (i.e. costly to produce, highest ad revenue) programs, and the crying turns to wailing.
My first thought exactly.
You mean lower prices increased demand? Someone should tell economists about this!!!
One could also argue a decent E3 showing, or the fact that the kiddies have had time to save up their summer lawn mowing money are responsible for the increase.
Every time I read arguments like this, the first thing to mind is Fountain . Note: voted the most influential artwork of the 20th century.
If a urinal is the most influential piece of art in a century, do we really care about "high art" anymore?
I have this recollection of a man standing in front of something really stupid and screaming "ART!!!" at it. I don't remember what it was from (I'm sure someone will tell me), but it reinforces the point that "artists" will insist everything is art, just because they made it.
No. I'm sure BatBoy Lives!
The magic words are "probable cause". Much can be accomplished in the name of probable cause, including civil asset freezing / forfeiture. You might need a warrant, but if all you need is probable cause, it's probably not that hard.
I believe the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act of 2000 raised the burden of proof to "preponderance of the evidence", which is a positive. But I believe they can still freeze for 60 days, pending a court telling them that they can't. They're just required to tell you about it. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I have time to read the whole thing right now.
However, the law seems to still be all over the place, as the drug laws and organized crime laws frequently have their own provisions for asset freezing/forfeiture. Beyond that, when you throw in terms like "agent of a foreign nation", it seems like the whole book is thrown out the window (see Reagan/Libya, lots/Iran). Throw in "presidential powers during wartime" and you start reading a whole new book.
Oh, and the Treasury dept. freezes and seizes assets all the time. It's just usually foreign assets, or through the IRS (which I don't believe are warrants, just procedural). Think of all the charities you've possibly heard of the last few years who's assets were frozen due to "suspected terrorist ties". Of course, those were based on an Executive Order as well. I have yet to read a decision by a court that the funds must be unfrozen (not that it doesn't exist, I just haven't seen it).
Note that the CNN article ends with "The grounds for blocking Global Relief's funds would be disclosed in court, the spokesperson said." That suggests to me that they didn't need to explain it before (i.e. get a warrant).
Oh, and the Coast Guard really was a part of the Treasury (most of the time) until 1967. It's on their web page. I didn't know that either.
The most relevant case law I can find quickly is UNITED STATES v. MONSANTO, 491 U.S. 600 (1989). I'm guessing there are others out there.
The pertinent bit: Moreover, a defendant's assets may be frozen before conviction based on a finding of probable cause to believe the assets are forfeitable. See, e. g., United States v. $8,850, 461 U.S. 555; Calero-Toledo v. Pearson Yacht Leasing Co., 416 U.S. 663. Indeed, concluding that the Government could not restrain such property would be odd considering that, under appropriate circumstances, the Government may restrain persons accused of a serious offense on a probable-cause finding. See United States v. Salerno, 481 U.S. 739. Pp. 614-616.
TV is already their slave, and television isn't exactly a growth industry these days in terms of broadcasters and stations. They are branching out to try and increase revenues.
Sorry, but I'm too lazy to search through four pages of answers to check if this one has been said.
Work gave me a Motorola W315 from Alltel. No camera, clamshell, functional speaker phone, fairly basic. Don't turn on SMS or internet access in the plan, and it really just makes calls. In my area, it has never dropped or missed a call, and the reception has always been excellent. $135 on their website. $0.99 with a 2-year contract.
Probably has a few more buttons than you'd care for, but it doesn't make you use them. I also lock the outside buttons because I got tired of accidentally setting it to vibrate. They also fill up the first 6-ish slots of your contacts with Alltel #'s.
Take that and add the Wii, which is economically a much closer substitute than anything the PS2 was up against.
Price increase plus additional substitutes leads to lower demand.
Well, at least until some Final Fantasy type exclusive removes the Wii as a substitute.
So lets sum up. My mistake was thinking that you might know something I don't (namely that the problem was becoming mainstream), and asking you to elaborate.
Your great contribution was to insult my intelligence, tell me to Google, and assuming that your writing ability accurately portrays anything useful to anyone else. Instead of answering my question with "no, that's not what I meant", you felt it more appropriate to rant and suggest I go look for something that you later say doesn't exist. So yeah, I finally came around to what you were saying, which was, um, nothing. Silly me for thinking there might have been more substance.
So let's add "thinking you might have something worthwhile to say" to my list of sins, shall we?
Have fun in whatever happy place you spend time at after you think you bested some witless buffoon. I'm guessing you're there a lot.
That's a horrible analogy. That's like saying "If you don't value the ability to write automatically on your PC with voice recognition, then you should go back to clay tablets and chisels."
There's a few things in between there. The change is much more subtle. Plus, folks DO still play on the SNES. Mine sadly failed years ago, and my wife made me get rid of it.
A better analogy might be, If I spend $25000 on a car to get me to work, why don't I spend $40000 on a car to get me to work. The answer lies in utility and value. I have to perceive extra value to me for the extra $15K.
L4t3R DUD3Z!!!!
Funny, you take on a whole different persona when ranting. . . much more agreeable when you're not.
/. comments entirely?
Careful, you might get confused with a retarded, rabid, trolling fanboy. You know, the kind that are going to make me stop reading
Guess I really should back off on the responses.
On a side note, if you are unfamiliar with them, you might be interested in Gamers with Jobs. More adult conversation on such topics, and I believe most over there fully agree with you. Plus, it's moderated. No flames. Keeps the retarded monkeys out.
I'm not sure Nintendo was ever about tech enthusiasts. I remember having an NES because it was so much cooler than my 2600, and it was just about the only game console out there (at least in my area). By the time the SNES was out, a lot of us "enthusiasts" were busy snatching up the Genesis to sit right next to it. I think Nintendo themselves just kept pumping out their first party stuff, and it was up to the third party folks to support the hardcore. Now they are still releasing that same first party stuff, and the hardcore don't like it. I guess I think of myself as "traditional" as well, and the Wii lineup doesn't bother me at all. New versions of the stuff I grew up with.
On quick thought, I thought my n64 was a waste of money. But Mario64, DK 64, Goldeneye and Ocarina gave me enough play time that it wasn't as bad as I thought. It did make me not buy I GameCube though. By then, I had a PlayStation, but pretty much only played PC games. I didn't buy a PS2 until I could pick one up for under $100 on ebay.
Now, I have MS, Sony, and every PC manufacturer wanting me to drop big bucks to engage in a hobby I don't have as much time for. I would rather cut back on my gaming, and get my daughter fun toys, and take the family on vacation, etc. The $250 Wii price point is very close to the $199 sweet spot, that point where every Tom, Dick and Harry starts buying consoles. I think they gambled a little bit, and would have dropped it to $199 had they sat on shelves. Only time will tell if it goes the way of the 2600 or not. Personally, I think it gives the masses the casual gaming machine to replace their aging "solitaire boxes".
I don't think Nintendo ever left me, I think I left them. They're just being nice enough to let me back in again, now that my tastes have changed, again.
Man, I let this one get away from me, didn't I? Okay, 10 second version. Yeah, it'd be cool if it were HD, but it'd run the price up. Getting Strikers Charged this month (woo online play!), probably get roped into Boogie next month (wife very interested) and definitely looking forward to Mario Kart!
Happy gaming. . .
3/4's of what comes up on Google are technical people talking about it, and the two major lawsuits (both of which were more about money than anything). Really didn't get any news articles about it in my results, but our search may vary.
/. You are not pointing out common knowledge to the layperson.
That George W. Bush is President is common knowledge. That General Motors makes cars is common knowledge. That General Motors did significantly more business as a lender is probably not common knowledge.
The fact that every once in a while (usual when they just replaced a HDD in a PC) someone stops by my office and questions the discrepancy in size tells me that it is NOT common knowledge. If it was common knowledge, they wouldn't be asking me. The fact that your tech support friends get calls from irate consumers says that it is not common knowledge. They wouldn't be pissed if they already knew it was coming. Do you think those pissed off customers really listened closely to a base2 explanation and took it to heart? Do you think they even know what base2 is, even after talking with technical support?
It is common knowledge to technical people. It might be common knowledge to others someday, but most of them glaze over when you start talking about base2 vs. base10, and don't care anymore. As someone who works in news, I can tell you why you won't see this in most news sources. It's boring, and it's technical, and most folks don't care.
Again, you are pointing out common knowledge to you and me and most of the folks on
So, wanna keep attacking the quality of my education? Or would you rather evaluate the quality of your own questionable rationale for what constitutes common knowledge amongst the laypeople? I'm guessing you'll go for my education again.
I know the kind of people who buy games and I have been to they and their parents' houses. So you know all about the people who buy games huh? Fine, lets ignore statistics all together. Every single family I know personally that owns a Wii has an HDTV. Every single person/family I know that has an Xbox or PS3 does not. Come to think of it, none of their parents have HD televisions either. So if we're going strictly on conjecture, my experience says that you are 100% wrong.
On topic though, Nintendo left the hard core behind when chose to make a GameCube console with a new controller. Nintendo has not made a good console since the Super Nintendo. Actually, I think Nintendo lost the hardcore with the N64. The games just weren't there. Mario64, Goldeneye, and Ocarina were about it. The Playstation buried them under fighting games and Final Fantasy. The Gamecube was their first attempt to do what they appear to be accomplishing with the Wii. Namely, appeal to families instead of the hardcore.
Good luck selling games to my Grandpa, douchebags. I know more twenty somethings with Wii's than seniors. My 70+ father just picked one up, and has already purchased a couple of games and has his eyes on a couple more. I know plenty of folks in the no HD crowd who bought PS2's once the price dropped to $129. Many of those same folks are dying to drop $250 on a Wii. Given that the Wii is already profitable, I'm guessing the douchebags will have to cry themselves to sleep on their huge piles of money.
By all means, don't let facts or economics get in the way of your righteous hardcore indignation.
On the way up the mountain (following the scent), there is a point where you can go left or right. Left goes to a clearing with a tree you can dig under, right continues to go up.
You get to a point where the ledge is just a little too high to climb up. There is an obvious (big might be a stretch) section of it that looks like it wants to fall. You roll into it, and it falls, making a ramp up. I think it is right before you meet the Yeti.
I can't imagine playing it again after finishing it. I tried twice with Ocarina, and stopped about 2/3 of the way through both times.
I just finished the Temple of Time, so I'm guessing that joke will make sense in a little while. . .
I'm sorry, but I consider myself to be partially educated.
Please point me to some of that "common knowledge", and I'm looking for something "layperson".
Not only do I work in IT, but I also work in news, and I can't say I've seen a story about any of this that was really laypeople, and not some techy class action lawyer wanting to get rich.
The + and - aren't too bad, but the 1 and 2 buttons suck. Have to dislocate your thumb to get down to them.
The only thing they work "well" on so far are when you turn the whole thing sideways and hold it like an NES controller.
BTW: Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz
You're not saying you have other hobbies are you?
I'd hate to have to report you. . .
I believe they've tried that.
You might know them as "commercial flops" and "educational".
Maybe you don't have to think of games as an "art form". I know I don't.
"next-gen games" sounds like a different way of saying "wicked awesome graphics" in your context.
Let me go on record as saying, "Whoop-de-freaking-shit". Pretty != Fun.
Or do you have some other idea of what the 360/PS3 can do? For fucks sake don't try and go Blue-Ray/HD-DVD on me. . .
I played Unreal Tournament enough to get freakishly good with the sniper rifle. My friends would oft accuse me of cheating. Used to play some CS and Team Fortress as well. In other words, I have the prerequisite skill.
Most FPS games just aren't any fun. Especially online. Especially when you're up against folks who know where every item/jump/spawn/etc. is on every level. They develop cartoonish skills that happen to exploit a certain 'feature' of that particular game. They get that knowledge/skill/"trash talking habit"/etc. by playing the game WAAAAAY more than I ever could. Besides, who needs the grief of spawn point campers and corpse humpers?
The last FPS's I can remember enjoying? Half Life, Deus Ex, and Republic Commando. They were all cool games, prerequisite skills be damned. Haven't seen one in a while that made me want to pick it up, single or multi player.