What I hear is that "we need an open standard on video that is not controlled by one [proprietary] company."
But when it comes to Linux and where system files are "kept" (read installed), versions and naming conventions for files and all the rest, folks advocate for what is essentially chaos on the Linux platform.
How do they do it? By making lots of noise about choice. Where choice has put us to date is: Being behind on the desktop. We should have a target system configuration and still leave those who want the status quo to pursue their dreams. Folks, we can do better.
Question is: Why the double standard?
I don't believe the goal of linux is to be #1 on the desktop.
- 15 to 10 years ago, you had to be careful when installing drives, or RAM. You could almost slice your hand on a cheap case that had unfinished and sharp edges.
- Beige Only. You can pick any color, as long as it is beige. Why did it take so bloody long to offer any other color then beige? Critical mass?
- LOUD systems. Have to thank George for showing me just how nice a quiet system is.
- Power hunger systems. 2 molex connections for a GPU ?!
- Crap 3D Video cards in laptops, and almost no benchmarks from the "classic" hardware review sites so you know how bad it sucks compared to a "real" GPU. (Thankfully the S3 Virge is gone from desktops, but laptops are still stuck with poor performance unless you pay an arm and a leg.)
What is the point of buying a laptop with a powerful graphics card when its going to suck the battery life right out of it?
Uh, if those windows machines actually ran "windows update" there would be no conficker.
So if Desktop Linux had the same users, they may not run "ubuntu update". Why? Because the last time they updated their machine stopped working properly
Think that will never happen? See: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/24523
Notice that user actually understands "grub" and "kernels" and knows where to find help. Other users might just never update. If the O/S ever has millions of users, these users start to add up.
This is why I run a stable distro that doesn't break everything all the time. Debian stable for example, I think it would be highly unlikely for anything to break during an update.
i understand there are lots of pc's out there with linux on them, but that is just a drop in the ocean compared to what's sold with windows on it, and most of the linux systems out there are maintained by professionals and don't get uncle joe on them installing that bit of software to get his free porn.
sure linux has mindshare, but that hasn't translated into market share. The year of the linux desktop will also be the year of the linux virus.
market share isn't the only thing that contributes to the security of an os. If software gets patched quickly, that can stop a lot of infections, which is an F/OSS strong point, not to mention the fact that unix and unix-like operating systems were designed to be secure.
I have to agree with the grandparent, most programmers from India I have met are, to say the least, not the best. I'm sure there are some awesome programmers from India, but the majority are usually worse then the average coder from North America, in my experience
Except no on hears the name calling other than people like Greve. I don't hear it, because I'm not involved in it.
And since the large majority of people that use open source are also not involved in it, fixing it won't necessarily translate into additional users.
The two main reasons that companies I have worked in don't use open source software is either because they want a paid technician on the other end of the phone, or it was felt the quality wasn't as good.
I suggest Mr. Greve expend his energy on overcoming those two issues if he wants to expand the acceptance of open source software. One only has to wade through the mountains of crap on SourceForge to question whether it is worth the effort to search for the good stuff that surpasses commercial options, or just go buy something.
I suppose you haven't heard of Red Hat, Novell, or IBM, they offer paid support for F/OSS, unless a paid technician means something else
Here we have a very interesting inversion of the typical Open vs Closed debate. Although Windows itself may be a closed source OS, it is actually a very open system. And although Android is built on layers of open source components, it is fundamentally a closed system (like iPhone).
The target audience for Android PCs would be one which needs a dedicated internet browsing device. Anything more would mean that they would be looking at Windows.
This strategy has been tried several times before. And it has failed every time. Linux has already been edged out of the netbook market by Windows, so it's going to be interesting to see how an even more crippled system could possibly compete.
The only reason linux "was edged out of the netbook market" is because the OEMs are fucking retarded when it comes it to deploying linux. They didn't even make an effort to get people to buy it.
We are winning in Iraq by ending the use of civilians as shields. We won in Vietnam by separating the combatants from the civilians. It is going to take that sort of effort to win against hackers, crackers and identity thieves. Unfortunately, right now the effort required to do this is intense enough that it is many, many times the losses so far. So I don't think they are going to do an
Excuse me? The US did not win the Vietnam War, unless the US was aiming to make Vietnam a communist country and have lots of casualties.
I'm no fan of DRM or good friedns with the *AAs, but I'm not their enemy either.
Yes I'd like the songs I buy on Apple to be MP3s, but downloading songs for free from thepiratebay is not protesting anymore it is just stealing.
Yes, I'm physically depriving someone of physical property when I download a song from the thepiratebay. I think the term you mean to say is copyright infringement.
Honestly I think the powers that be have no f'in clue. Really they just need to be told what to do...but instead we all go off and download crap illegally...and then wonder why the RIAA and MPAA exists? Really...what are we f'in stupid.
the RIAA/MPAA exists long before the internet. I really think you should do some research before you post on this topic again
What is the point of eastern language support and a faster boot time, if no one knows how to do anything with it though? I think the disadvantages of using linpus outweigh the advantages
There is also the issue of extra returns for Linux machines if they make them cheaper. This actually happens, it isn't just FUD, though it doesn't happen for the reason that MS want you to believe (because Linux is defective) it is because the user has made a defective choice - they pick the cheaper option without doing any research then expect a refund because it won't play game-of-the-moment out of the box.
and not to mention, they(acer and asus to a lesser extent) put a linux distro that no one has ever heard of and has no documentation on their computers, obviously everyone is going to use a computer that no one knows how to do anything on
I'm not trying to troll, I'm just asking questions
I confess to a bit of confusion as to why we're so wrapped up with getting linux on the desktop. We have a perfectly valid desktop operating system; Windows ( although I have yet to administrate 7 in a corporate environment, so take what I say with a grain of salt ).
Yes yes, it's evil and horrible and all the other things we like to harp on it about. It's also entirely manageable and entrenched. And while, yes, I would like many of the manageability functions linux provides, there are a lot of things that linux simply does not do as well as windows ( irregardless of the applications ).
Such as?
Seems to me our efforts would be best served towards back end work; getting decent file systems ported to linux, providing samba with even more features that windows does not natively have, ect...
The only "decent" filesystem that I can think of that the linux kernel doesn't support is ZFS, is there something I'm missing? and what would be the point of putting features on samba that windows doesn't have, when the primary use of it is to communicate with windows machines?
Well it would have helped if _some_ manufacturers(*cough* acer *cough*) would have released some sort of documentation with their linux computers so you could at least do something with it. I bet if they had some sort of instruction manual to do basic tasks and used a more popular distro, then they would have had a lot less returns
Thats because acer put a retarded linux distro on their netbooks that no one knew anything about and there was no documentation at all about it. Asus put a distro that at least some people know about and there is some documentation for.
See, the problem is with limiting freedom of speech is that sure, in this case it _might_ be a decent idea, but as soon as you are able to limit speech then they can just redefine "cyber bullying" to whatever they want and we go down the slippery slope to fascism
There is actually no such thing as cyber bullying, there is just bullying, its no different if I used a phone to make fun of someone instead of a computer, what would we call it then? Tele-bullying? There is no difference between regular bullying and cyber-bullying besides the medium used to convery thoughts, that is why I object to the term "cyber-bullying".
If I ever write a book, you can damn well bet I won't sanction distribution in Britain.
International law is an absolute clusterfuck, especially where IP is concerned. There's really not much to be done. Of course, it would be nice to get rid of region coding and other such bull, but it's here to stay.
Fine, then you don't the money that people are willing to give you for it, instead they will resort to acquiring it through less legitimate means and you will still lose.
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What I hear is that "we need an open standard on video that is not controlled by one [proprietary] company."
But when it comes to Linux and where system files are "kept" (read installed), versions and naming conventions for files and all the rest, folks advocate for what is essentially chaos on the Linux platform.
How do they do it? By making lots of noise about choice. Where choice has put us to date is: Being behind on the desktop. We should have a target system configuration and still leave those who want the status quo to pursue their dreams. Folks, we can do better.
Question is: Why the double standard?
I don't believe the goal of linux is to be #1 on the desktop.
My personal list...
- 15 to 10 years ago, you had to be careful when installing drives, or RAM. You could almost slice your hand on a cheap case that had unfinished and sharp edges.
- Beige Only. You can pick any color, as long as it is beige. Why did it take so bloody long to offer any other color then beige? Critical mass?
- LOUD systems. Have to thank George for showing me just how nice a quiet system is.
- Power hunger systems. 2 molex connections for a GPU ?!
- Crap 3D Video cards in laptops, and almost no benchmarks from the "classic" hardware review sites so you know how bad it sucks compared to a "real" GPU. (Thankfully the S3 Virge is gone from desktops, but laptops are still stuck with poor performance unless you pay an arm and a leg.)
What is the point of buying a laptop with a powerful graphics card when its going to suck the battery life right out of it?
Uh, if those windows machines actually ran "windows update" there would be no conficker. So if Desktop Linux had the same users, they may not run "ubuntu update". Why? Because the last time they updated their machine stopped working properly Think that will never happen? See: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/24523 Notice that user actually understands "grub" and "kernels" and knows where to find help. Other users might just never update. If the O/S ever has millions of users, these users start to add up.
This is why I run a stable distro that doesn't break everything all the time. Debian stable for example, I think it would be highly unlikely for anything to break during an update.
i understand there are lots of pc's out there with linux on them, but that is just a drop in the ocean compared to what's sold with windows on it, and most of the linux systems out there are maintained by professionals and don't get uncle joe on them installing that bit of software to get his free porn.
sure linux has mindshare, but that hasn't translated into market share. The year of the linux desktop will also be the year of the linux virus.
market share isn't the only thing that contributes to the security of an os. If software gets patched quickly, that can stop a lot of infections, which is an F/OSS strong point, not to mention the fact that unix and unix-like operating systems were designed to be secure.
Oh yeah, my left me and took our kids to her mothers.
Did you accidentally the whole thing too?
I have to agree with the grandparent, most programmers from India I have met are, to say the least, not the best. I'm sure there are some awesome programmers from India, but the majority are usually worse then the average coder from North America, in my experience
(or if they are linux, doing something like "rm -rf /")).
Just don't give the root access, then they can't do that.
Except no on hears the name calling other than people like Greve. I don't hear it, because I'm not involved in it. And since the large majority of people that use open source are also not involved in it, fixing it won't necessarily translate into additional users. The two main reasons that companies I have worked in don't use open source software is either because they want a paid technician on the other end of the phone, or it was felt the quality wasn't as good. I suggest Mr. Greve expend his energy on overcoming those two issues if he wants to expand the acceptance of open source software. One only has to wade through the mountains of crap on SourceForge to question whether it is worth the effort to search for the good stuff that surpasses commercial options, or just go buy something.
I suppose you haven't heard of Red Hat, Novell, or IBM, they offer paid support for F/OSS, unless a paid technician means something else
Here we have a very interesting inversion of the typical Open vs Closed debate. Although Windows itself may be a closed source OS, it is actually a very open system. And although Android is built on layers of open source components, it is fundamentally a closed system (like iPhone).
The target audience for Android PCs would be one which needs a dedicated internet browsing device. Anything more would mean that they would be looking at Windows.
This strategy has been tried several times before. And it has failed every time. Linux has already been edged out of the netbook market by Windows, so it's going to be interesting to see how an even more crippled system could possibly compete.
The only reason linux "was edged out of the netbook market" is because the OEMs are fucking retarded when it comes it to deploying linux. They didn't even make an effort to get people to buy it.
and lawyers
We are winning in Iraq by ending the use of civilians as shields. We won in Vietnam by separating the combatants from the civilians. It is going to take that sort of effort to win against hackers, crackers and identity thieves. Unfortunately, right now the effort required to do this is intense enough that it is many, many times the losses so far. So I don't think they are going to do an
Excuse me? The US did not win the Vietnam War, unless the US was aiming to make Vietnam a communist country and have lots of casualties.
I'm no fan of DRM or good friedns with the *AAs, but I'm not their enemy either.
Yes I'd like the songs I buy on Apple to be MP3s, but downloading songs for free from thepiratebay is not protesting anymore it is just stealing.
Yes, I'm physically depriving someone of physical property when I download a song from the thepiratebay. I think the term you mean to say is copyright infringement.
Honestly I think the powers that be have no f'in clue. Really they just need to be told what to do...but instead we all go off and download crap illegally...and then wonder why the RIAA and MPAA exists? Really...what are we f'in stupid.
the RIAA/MPAA exists long before the internet. I really think you should do some research before you post on this topic again
What is the point of eastern language support and a faster boot time, if no one knows how to do anything with it though? I think the disadvantages of using linpus outweigh the advantages
There is also the issue of extra returns for Linux machines if they make them cheaper. This actually happens, it isn't just FUD, though it doesn't happen for the reason that MS want you to believe (because Linux is defective) it is because the user has made a defective choice - they pick the cheaper option without doing any research then expect a refund because it won't play game-of-the-moment out of the box.
and not to mention, they(acer and asus to a lesser extent) put a linux distro that no one has ever heard of and has no documentation on their computers, obviously everyone is going to use a computer that no one knows how to do anything on
I don't know of any linux distro that has auto-run, so its pretty unlikely that that would happen
I confess to a bit of confusion as to why we're so wrapped up with getting linux on the desktop. We have a perfectly valid desktop operating system; Windows ( although I have yet to administrate 7 in a corporate environment, so take what I say with a grain of salt ).
Yes yes, it's evil and horrible and all the other things we like to harp on it about. It's also entirely manageable and entrenched. And while, yes, I would like many of the manageability functions linux provides, there are a lot of things that linux simply does not do as well as windows ( irregardless of the applications ).
Such as?
Seems to me our efforts would be best served towards back end work; getting decent file systems ported to linux, providing samba with even more features that windows does not natively have, ect...
The only "decent" filesystem that I can think of that the linux kernel doesn't support is ZFS, is there something I'm missing? and what would be the point of putting features on samba that windows doesn't have, when the primary use of it is to communicate with windows machines?
I wouldn't want linux to have a 100% market share, just a big enough market share that it is supported on hardware as much as windows is
Well it would have helped if _some_ manufacturers(*cough* acer *cough*) would have released some sort of documentation with their linux computers so you could at least do something with it. I bet if they had some sort of instruction manual to do basic tasks and used a more popular distro, then they would have had a lot less returns
I assumed he meant hardware keyloggers because he said keyboard keyloggers
Any password system can be circumvented by social engineering, so its pretty much like saying the sky is blue
No kidding, how is any password system not easy to circumvent with social engineering and how does windows protect against keyloggers?
You mean there is another one?
Thats because acer put a retarded linux distro on their netbooks that no one knew anything about and there was no documentation at all about it. Asus put a distro that at least some people know about and there is some documentation for.
See, the problem is with limiting freedom of speech is that sure, in this case it _might_ be a decent idea, but as soon as you are able to limit speech then they can just redefine "cyber bullying" to whatever they want and we go down the slippery slope to fascism
There is actually no such thing as cyber bullying, there is just bullying, its no different if I used a phone to make fun of someone instead of a computer, what would we call it then? Tele-bullying? There is no difference between regular bullying and cyber-bullying besides the medium used to convery thoughts, that is why I object to the term "cyber-bullying".
If I ever write a book, you can damn well bet I won't sanction distribution in Britain.
International law is an absolute clusterfuck, especially where IP is concerned. There's really not much to be done. Of course, it would be nice to get rid of region coding and other such bull, but it's here to stay.
Fine, then you don't the money that people are willing to give you for it, instead they will resort to acquiring it through less legitimate means and you will still lose.