It's kind of a long time, but even the protons themselves have a half-life of "only" 10^36 years (current estimates), does the universe continue expanding without matter, and even if it does, does it matter? Does background radiation continue at level it is at when the last proton closes the door, shuts the lights and breaks apart as a positron and small puff of gamma photons, or does even that eventually fade away?
Of course all those virtual particle-antiparticle pairs keep up popping from the vacuum, but since their total energy is zero, I wouldn't count it...
I didn't. It was not about CF in general. The grandparent implied CF folks already HAD built a device in their garage that's capable of producing pretty decent amount of power for long periods of time.
That may not be enough to go ahead and insta-create end-user product, but it damn certainly is enough to get an attention (and if it works, substancial funding) of a big player.
Even if it wouldn't scale to power production in general, few kW CF unit would single handedly destroy gasoline aggregators and batteries as well as the emerging fuel cell industry without taking a scratch. Can you imagine an UPS/battery that's capable of running your server farm for two months, or laptop for years with nothing more than a drop of (heavy) water?
And fission was so bad because it was dangerous, you can't build a fission reactor in your garage because, or rather you can, but you wont be around for much longer after firing it up the first time, but cold fusion is supposed to have no such problems, it doesn't even produce detectable amount of neutrons!
Also, even in a pure palladium setup, the situation isn't bad: a device that produces 1kw of power per cubic centimeter of palladium ran for 50 days - and this on minimal research funding.
So, where can I go to pick up one of these things?
If someone actually had an actual device that could produce 1 kW of power for nearly two months and was scalable/cm^3 as you seem to imply they'd be everywhere right now, and the inventor would be a multibillionnaire, screw the mainstream physicists opinions.
Soo... did the aliens kidnap him? Men that came in black helicopter perhaps? Vanished in a puff of logic? Oil companies had him assassinated, and decided to sit on the thing instead of instantly using it to increase their profits a millionfold, OR maybe, just maybe, it isn't real. Feel free to use Occam's Razor to pick up the best explanation.
For thos who don't understand metaphor, science blithely accepts as truth things it does not understand and so, cannot explain.
Your stupid metaphor is not only wrong, it's not about science at all. It's about real life. The teacher could not care less what scientist think about the electrons at the moment (they're not made of quarks, btw, electrons ARE quarks), he's teaching about electricity, not quantum physics, it's enough that he know electrons carry a charge, what they are or are not made of, is of no significance.
I don't need to know general relativity to know basic mechanics, Newton works just fine, and I don't need to know anything about subatomic properties of invidual electron to know how electricity behaves.
Ninety percent of scientists have IQ's below that of Spiro Agnew (135).
Not that IQ means anything, mind you, but are you suggesting that IQ below 135 is supposed to be very bad? You do realize that 50% of all people have IQ under 100, by definition, and that only about 1% of all humans have IQ in 135 range? Looks like scientist are ten times smarter than rest of us if ten percent of them reach that instead of one in a hundred like the rest of us.
10k and almost guaranteed job at Google is "basically nothing" for few hours of work?
I guess you must be some of those richest people of Earth too if that sounds like a lousy payment for amount of time involved. That's several months of wage for most people, and to students it's a fortune. Heck, many would do it just for the free flight and accommodation on the trip to Google HQ.
Google is now more like M$. Times have changed.
Yup. Time to go buy a thicker tinfoil hat, all those great hackers at Google are now evil too, and they're working on new, improved mind control technologies.
Yeah, there's nothing to write home about in that test.
It's pretty much impossible to compare hardware based on that (or any) kind of benchmark anyway, no matter how good it is, because it's always partly about OS, compiler and application implementation anyway...
Would you please stop the FUD already? It's been old and baseless for, well, just about as long as it's been spouted by you whining morons.
There's no significant difference between the two nigh-identifical packaging systems.
If you don't want something to install itself in "weird, unworkable places with dependencies against files that don't exist", then don't install crap you find on the 'net packaged by god knows who for god knows what distro and assume it's supposed to work in *your* machine. Neither RPM nor dpkg are capable of fixing broken or incompatible packages.
Besides, did you miss the note to move to gentoo a while ago, most of you flamers seem to be using it nowadays?
To put it in a more serious tone; it would be nice to be able to watch such DVDs legally with Linux.
Well, it's pretty simple matter, you just need to live in a place that does not yet totally bend over for media companies and implement DMCA style laws. Yes, I know it's not an option for most, but hey, you asked.
Anyway... where is it told, black and white, that DeCSS in video player is as illegal as everyone on the Slashdot seems to think? After all, DMCA does allow circumvention and reverse-engineering for "interoperability" purposes, and, AFAIK, has never been invoked (successfully, at least) over DeCSS utilizing _player_, which is the one case that exception would most likely allow, only DVD ripping software. All the trade secred cases have been dropped as well, no?
So, why exactly is everyone still considering it 100% illegal?
I know there're software updates out there, but conveniently Siemens didn't supply the phone with a data cable. But hey, I could buy it for 30 euros! Brilliant, I can buy myself a right to patch the phone!!
Why should they bundle the data cable for software update reasons when 99% of the people wouldn't know how to use it anyway? And the cost of the cable would only be included in the phone price, instead of going away.
No need to buy any "rights", just drag the piece of crap to the folks you bought it from - or the nearest Siemens reseller, if it isn't the same - and have them patch the firmware.
Or, as it turned out, I could find the single provider in my home town who's able to patch the phone. Though, I'm not sure if it's cost free even there..
It's almost certainly free during the warranty and depending on the shop maybe, or maybe not after that.
Does the hardware for these phones not have a built in filter to protect the user from this type of thing?
Nope. See, phones are supposed to be pretty loud so you hear when it's ringing, far away from you, but those pesky laws of physics tend to mean that the volume that is "pretty loud" some distance away is INSANELY LOUD when it's 1cm from your eardrum.
Hardware that knows when you're holding the phone is by no means impossible, but it would raise the costs a bit and... well, you know how these things go when it's about big corporations and mass produced items, every damn cent is counted ten times.
Software on the other hand has a simple way of knowing when you're near the phone, and easy workaround for lack of hardware. If call is on, or someone has been twiddling with controls during last n seconds it's pretty sure that someone is handling the thing, make it mute the overloud beeps and everything is fine... until someone forgets to implement the feature.
You have any other ways to get, say, to Europe and back in a reasonable amount of time..?
Yup. An airliner. Cram a few thousand people on the plane and it becomes pretty economic.
So let's rephrase that: All the effort, fuel and pollution required just to get a hunk of metal with only one passenger off the ground and keep it there with the current technology is wasteful and unsustenable.
You wouldn't get into Europe in a flying car anyway, the thing would run over few hundred kilometers from nearest gas station and... well, have a nice swim.
Seriously--who will accept this level of control over our actions by "the government"?
The people who want to fly but don't know how? Eg. 99.9% of them. And it probably won't be absolute, if you want to be flying manually, you do the same thing that you already do to get the permit for that. Get a pilot's license.
umm.. aircraft are MUCH more fuel effecient than any ground vehicle could ever be.
Yeah, right. In what world? The one with anti-gravity engines, perhaps? Airliners with hundreds of passengers may have a pretty good fuel efficiency/person, but a "private car" with only one passenger will have absolutely crappy fuel efficiency.
Most of the friction your car has to overcome in going down the road is road friction.
Indeed it is. But don't forget that your car doesn't need to be accelerating upwards at constant 9.8m/s^2 JUST TO STAY AFLOAT! That's pretty significant amount of energy for an object the size (and more importantly, mass) of car, road friction doesn't come anywhere near it.
And on top of that, as speed increases, so does air drag, air car would be faster and this would be a much larger factor than it is for ground cars. For high speed trains it's already causing more friction than wheel/rail contact.
Not to be a pessimist, but just imagine what some terrorists with flying cars could do?
The same thing "some terrorists" with a Cessna can do today if they feel like it?
Well, maybe not quite that much, flying cars would probably be even smaller, and have less airspeed.
Besides, who cares? They've already won, as all these billion terrorist scaremongering comments prove, you guys just keep BENDING OVER to the boogieman under the bed and watch as rest of the world zips by.
What do you call the cache where all internet files are stored? And cookies?
Generally, in a predefined confined location. Configurable by user, NOT remote site.
Are you really suggesting that because there's one place web browser is supposed to write files to, it's consequently PERFECTLY OKAY for it to start TAKING ORDERS from WEB PAGES and based on those write files to everywhere the user has write access?
A site could pretty much dump a 100-MB file of textual garbage on your computer by just going to it.
It pretty much could, into a cache, if the user has configured browser to allow it. Still into a specific location, it doesn't drop it randomly somewhere you happen to have permissions.
Web browsers create, edit and delete user-level permissioned files all the time.
Yup, their own files, files they're supposed to create, edit and delete. Web browsers do not randomly create, edit and delete user-level permissioned files around the system, and they ESPECIALLY don't allow web pages to do so.
You're making yourself look worse and worse each time.
And you can't possibly make yourself look any worse. A security hole is a security hole, root security hole is obviously worse, but user security hole is also a securíty hole no matter how much you try to spin it off. Stop playing moron and admit you're about as wrong as one can be.
You must not have been playing very many games then. Yes, they require you to be admin to install, doom3 setup didn't even work trough the runas thing (shame on you, iD!), you needed to be logged in as admin, but after that, lower privileges seem to work fine.
Everything I've tried lately (Doom3, Perimeter, Spellforce,...) works fine as an user (or "Power User").
And they're not just exceptions either, everything seems to work. Even old ones (Freespace, Battlezone) that have been made for win9x when there were on non-admin users.
I still have a Word document which had the center of it *eaten* and random gibberish inserted for completely unknown reasons
I've seen a lot of files with parts eaten and random binary gibberish inserted, usually plain ASCII text that are always open for writing (log files). Looks like a filesystem screw-up, fat blows up during a crash and writes something to awrong place. FS itself isn't corrupted though, or at least not to a point it would show itself to diagnostic tools.
Makes you wonder, it's not a big deal to remove piece of crap from a log every now and then, but does it do this to all open files? Same treatment would do real wonders to a non-text file...
Wouldn't matter to us. Or our children. Or our children's children's children's children.
Are you positively sure about that?
If I'm not miscalculating something, a black hole with mass of Moon would have a schwarzschild radius of 0.11 millimeters, easily big enough for eating hydrogen and helium plasma with ease.
It would still have the same mass as moon, though, so the same gravity, "particle" that heavy in a sea of almost weightless (compared to it) hydrogen plasma WILL pull them in like a vacuum cleaner. It'd attract objects as far as moon's radius at same 1.6m/s^2, and the nearer you go the greater the force. Pull would be 1g about 700km away from the black hole, 500m/s^2 at 100km, 2km/s^2 at 50km, etc. You get the picture.
Granted, the gravity is very small at the sun's surface 700 000km away, only 10 micrometers/s^2, but the problem is, if you suck up few thousand kilometers of the core of Sun, it doesn't stay empty, Suns own gravity pushes matter from outward back there, also the mass and size of the black hole increases with everything it eats, the inner matter of sun is probably quite dense already giving it mass fast, and once the black hole has swallowed enough to seriously disrupt or stop the fusion, there will be no more radiation pressure to fight back gravity and the collapse will just pick up speed.
Nope. I don't expect it would take that long. Anyone with real insight into this is free to correct any glaring errors.
If you're going to insinuate that someone is being stupid, please try not to be stupid yourself -- think a little.
Sorry, I am not aware of recycling habits of other nations. Guess generalizing doesn't pay off.
In the case of recycling, the bottles need to be transported to the factory from incredibly numerous trash containers placed all around the country. This is an expensive distributed operation.
Which is something I didn't take into account, because the system I'm used to doesn't work that way. Bottles and cans have a slight deposit fee in them, and you return them to the shop. Not only does it significantly reduce the number of sites you need to transport from and help a lot with sorting (part of which can already be done in the store), but as another poster mentioned, you can utilize same traffic that brings in the full bottles to take old ones back to the factory, it'd go back there anyway so transport costs are almost nothing.
Of course there's always a downside to everything, and you might not get all the bottles back, especially if the fee is not well balanced, too cheap and people will throw it in trash anyway, too expensive and someone will come up with non-returnable version.
Slashdot Mirror
It's kind of a long time, but even the protons themselves have a half-life of "only" 10^36 years (current estimates), does the universe continue expanding without matter, and even if it does, does it matter? Does background radiation continue at level it is at when the last proton closes the door, shuts the lights and breaks apart as a positron and small puff of gamma photons, or does even that eventually fade away?
Of course all those virtual particle-antiparticle pairs keep up popping from the vacuum, but since their total energy is zero, I wouldn't count it...
I didn't. It was not about CF in general. The grandparent implied CF folks already HAD built a device in their garage that's capable of producing pretty decent amount of power for long periods of time.
That may not be enough to go ahead and insta-create end-user product, but it damn certainly is enough to get an attention (and if it works, substancial funding) of a big player.
Even if it wouldn't scale to power production in general, few kW CF unit would single handedly destroy gasoline aggregators and batteries as well as the emerging fuel cell industry without taking a scratch. Can you imagine an UPS/battery that's capable of running your server farm for two months, or laptop for years with nothing more than a drop of (heavy) water?
And fission was so bad because it was dangerous, you can't build a fission reactor in your garage because, or rather you can, but you wont be around for much longer after firing it up the first time, but cold fusion is supposed to have no such problems, it doesn't even produce detectable amount of neutrons!
Also, even in a pure palladium setup, the situation isn't bad: a device that produces 1kw of power per cubic centimeter of palladium ran for 50 days - and this on minimal research funding.
/cm^3 as you seem to imply they'd be everywhere right now, and the inventor would be a multibillionnaire, screw the mainstream physicists opinions.
So, where can I go to pick up one of these things?
If someone actually had an actual device that could produce 1 kW of power for nearly two months and was scalable
Soo... did the aliens kidnap him? Men that came in black helicopter perhaps? Vanished in a puff of logic? Oil companies had him assassinated, and decided to sit on the thing instead of instantly using it to increase their profits a millionfold, OR maybe, just maybe, it isn't real. Feel free to use Occam's Razor to pick up the best explanation.
For thos who don't understand metaphor, science blithely accepts as truth things it does not understand and so, cannot explain.
Your stupid metaphor is not only wrong, it's not about science at all. It's about real life. The teacher could not care less what scientist think about the electrons at the moment (they're not made of quarks, btw, electrons ARE quarks), he's teaching about electricity, not quantum physics, it's enough that he know electrons carry a charge, what they are or are not made of, is of no significance.
I don't need to know general relativity to know basic mechanics, Newton works just fine, and I don't need to know anything about subatomic properties of invidual electron to know how electricity behaves.
Ninety percent of scientists have IQ's below that of Spiro Agnew (135).
Not that IQ means anything, mind you, but are you suggesting that IQ below 135 is supposed to be very bad? You do realize that 50% of all people have IQ under 100, by definition, and that only about 1% of all humans have IQ in 135 range? Looks like scientist are ten times smarter than rest of us if ten percent of them reach that instead of one in a hundred like the rest of us.
10k and almost guaranteed job at Google is "basically nothing" for few hours of work?
I guess you must be some of those richest people of Earth too if that sounds like a lousy payment for amount of time involved. That's several months of wage for most people, and to students it's a fortune. Heck, many would do it just for the free flight and accommodation on the trip to Google HQ.
Google is now more like M$. Times have
changed.
Yup. Time to go buy a thicker tinfoil hat, all those great hackers at Google are now evil too, and they're working on new, improved mind control technologies.
Yeah, there's nothing to write home about in that test.
It's pretty much impossible to compare hardware based on that (or any) kind of benchmark anyway, no matter how good it is, because it's always partly about OS, compiler and application implementation anyway...
All of the PC's are using RAID except two, one which gets smoked by the high-end G5?
You mean "gets smoked" as in, loses to it in 2 tests out of 8 and a draw in one? That's a new definition...
Also remember, that's a dual G5 against single Athlon, RAID is soooo unfair to poor Apple but slapping in two G5's is no big deal? Right...
greek letters (ae is another one) have been slowly disappearing
Æ and OE are not greek letters, but latin ones, just like all the rest we use.
Apple did it by putting into place an extremely clever and elegant hack. MS is attempting to do it by rewriting the entire filesystem.
MS is not rewriting the filesystem either, their version is a hack as well, built on top of NTFS, not a replacement for it.
Of course that's still more expensive and takes more space than just one speaker.
That, and would it actually do any good? It's not like the back of the phone is THAT much farther from your ear than the "speech" speaker.
... will happen when pigs fly.
Apple might be more open for someone bringing up the idea, though, and Fraunhofer is probably happy to license to anyone.
Would you please stop the FUD already? It's been old and baseless for, well, just about as long as it's been spouted by you whining morons.
There's no significant difference between the two nigh-identifical packaging systems.
If you don't want something to install itself in "weird, unworkable places with dependencies against files that don't exist", then don't install crap you find on the 'net packaged by god knows who for god knows what distro and assume it's supposed to work in *your* machine. Neither RPM nor dpkg are capable of fixing broken or incompatible packages.
Besides, did you miss the note to move to gentoo a while ago, most of you flamers seem to be using it nowadays?
To put it in a more serious tone; it would be nice to be able to watch such DVDs legally with Linux.
Well, it's pretty simple matter, you just need to live in a place that does not yet totally bend over for media companies and implement DMCA style laws. Yes, I know it's not an option for most, but hey, you asked.
Anyway... where is it told, black and white, that DeCSS in video player is as illegal as everyone on the Slashdot seems to think? After all, DMCA does allow circumvention and reverse-engineering for "interoperability" purposes, and, AFAIK, has never been invoked (successfully, at least) over DeCSS utilizing _player_, which is the one case that exception would most likely allow, only DVD ripping software. All the trade secred cases have been dropped as well, no?
So, why exactly is everyone still considering it 100% illegal?
I know there're software updates out there, but conveniently Siemens didn't supply the phone with a data cable. But hey, I could buy it for 30 euros! Brilliant, I can buy myself a right to patch the phone!!
Why should they bundle the data cable for software update reasons when 99% of the people wouldn't know how to use it anyway? And the cost of the cable would only be included in the phone price, instead of going away.
No need to buy any "rights", just drag the piece of crap to the folks you bought it from - or the nearest Siemens reseller, if it isn't the same - and have them patch the firmware.
Or, as it turned out, I could find the single provider in my home town who's able to patch the phone. Though, I'm not sure if it's cost free even there..
It's almost certainly free during the warranty and depending on the shop maybe, or maybe not after that.
Does the hardware for these phones not have a built in filter to protect the user from this type of thing?
Nope. See, phones are supposed to be pretty loud so you hear when it's ringing, far away from you, but those pesky laws of physics tend to mean that the volume that is "pretty loud" some distance away is INSANELY LOUD when it's 1cm from your eardrum.
Hardware that knows when you're holding the phone is by no means impossible, but it would raise the costs a bit and... well, you know how these things go when it's about big corporations and mass produced items, every damn cent is counted ten times.
Software on the other hand has a simple way of knowing when you're near the phone, and easy workaround for lack of hardware. If call is on, or someone has been twiddling with controls during last n seconds it's pretty sure that someone is handling the thing, make it mute the overloud beeps and everything is fine... until someone forgets to implement the feature.
You have any other ways to get, say, to Europe and back in a reasonable amount of time..?
Yup. An airliner. Cram a few thousand people on the plane and it becomes pretty economic.
So let's rephrase that: All the effort, fuel and pollution required just to get a hunk of metal with only one passenger off the ground and keep it there with the current technology is wasteful and unsustenable.
You wouldn't get into Europe in a flying car anyway, the thing would run over few hundred kilometers from nearest gas station and... well, have a nice swim.
Seriously--who will accept this level of control over our actions by "the government"?
The people who want to fly but don't know how? Eg. 99.9% of them. And it probably won't be absolute, if you want to be flying manually, you do the same thing that you already do to get the permit for that. Get a pilot's license.
umm.. aircraft are MUCH more fuel effecient than any ground vehicle could ever be.
Yeah, right. In what world? The one with anti-gravity engines, perhaps? Airliners with hundreds of passengers may have a pretty good fuel efficiency/person, but a "private car" with only one passenger will have absolutely crappy fuel efficiency.
Most of the friction your car has to overcome in going down the road is road friction.
Indeed it is. But don't forget that your car doesn't need to be accelerating upwards at constant 9.8m/s^2 JUST TO STAY AFLOAT! That's pretty significant amount of energy for an object the size (and more importantly, mass) of car, road friction doesn't come anywhere near it.
And on top of that, as speed increases, so does air drag, air car would be faster and this would be a much larger factor than it is for ground cars. For high speed trains it's already causing more friction than wheel/rail contact.
Not to be a pessimist, but just imagine what some terrorists with flying cars could do?
The same thing "some terrorists" with a Cessna can do today if they feel like it?
Well, maybe not quite that much, flying cars would probably be even smaller, and have less airspeed.
Besides, who cares? They've already won, as all these billion terrorist scaremongering comments prove, you guys just keep BENDING OVER to the boogieman under the bed and watch as rest of the world zips by.
What do you call the cache where all internet files are stored? And cookies?
Generally, in a predefined confined location. Configurable by user, NOT remote site.
Are you really suggesting that because there's one place web browser is supposed to write files to, it's consequently PERFECTLY OKAY for it to start TAKING ORDERS from WEB PAGES and based on those write files to everywhere the user has write access?
A site could pretty much dump a 100-MB file of textual garbage on your computer by just going to it.
It pretty much could, into a cache, if the user has configured browser to allow it. Still into a specific location, it doesn't drop it randomly somewhere you happen to have permissions.
Web browsers create, edit and delete user-level permissioned files all the time.
Yup, their own files, files they're supposed to create, edit and delete. Web browsers do not randomly create, edit and delete user-level permissioned files around the system, and they ESPECIALLY don't allow web pages to do so.
You're making yourself look worse and worse each time.
And you can't possibly make yourself look any worse. A security hole is a security hole, root security hole is obviously worse, but user security hole is also a securíty hole no matter how much you try to spin it off. Stop playing moron and admit you're about as wrong as one can be.
I have yet to see a game that does.
...) works fine as an user (or "Power User").
You must not have been playing very many games then. Yes, they require you to be admin to install, doom3 setup didn't even work trough the runas thing (shame on you, iD!), you needed to be logged in as admin, but after that, lower privileges seem to work fine.
Everything I've tried lately (Doom3, Perimeter, Spellforce,
And they're not just exceptions either, everything seems to work. Even old ones (Freespace, Battlezone) that have been made for win9x when there were on non-admin users.
I still have a Word document which had the center of it *eaten* and random gibberish inserted for completely unknown reasons
I've seen a lot of files with parts eaten and random binary gibberish inserted, usually plain ASCII text that are always open for writing (log files). Looks like a filesystem screw-up, fat blows up during a crash and writes something to awrong place. FS itself isn't corrupted though, or at least not to a point it would show itself to diagnostic tools.
Makes you wonder, it's not a big deal to remove piece of crap from a log every now and then, but does it do this to all open files? Same treatment would do real wonders to a non-text file...
Wouldn't matter to us. Or our children. Or our children's children's children's children.
Are you positively sure about that?
If I'm not miscalculating something, a black hole with mass of Moon would have a schwarzschild radius of 0.11 millimeters, easily big enough for eating hydrogen and helium plasma with ease.
It would still have the same mass as moon, though, so the same gravity, "particle" that heavy in a sea of almost weightless (compared to it) hydrogen plasma WILL pull them in like a vacuum cleaner. It'd attract objects as far as moon's radius at same 1.6m/s^2, and the nearer you go the greater the force. Pull would be 1g about 700km away from the black hole, 500m/s^2 at 100km, 2km/s^2 at 50km, etc. You get the picture.
Granted, the gravity is very small at the sun's surface 700 000km away, only 10 micrometers/s^2, but the problem is, if you suck up few thousand kilometers of the core of Sun, it doesn't stay empty, Suns own gravity pushes matter from outward back there, also the mass and size of the black hole increases with everything it eats, the inner matter of sun is probably quite dense already giving it mass fast, and once the black hole has swallowed enough to seriously disrupt or stop the fusion, there will be no more radiation pressure to fight back gravity and the collapse will just pick up speed.
Nope. I don't expect it would take that long. Anyone with real insight into this is free to correct any glaring errors.
If you're going to insinuate that someone is being stupid, please try not to be stupid yourself -- think a little.
Sorry, I am not aware of recycling habits of other nations. Guess generalizing doesn't pay off.
In the case of recycling, the bottles need to be transported to the factory from incredibly numerous trash containers placed all around the country. This is an expensive distributed operation.
Which is something I didn't take into account, because the system I'm used to doesn't work that way. Bottles and cans have a slight deposit fee in them, and you return them to the shop. Not only does it significantly reduce the number of sites you need to transport from and help a lot with sorting (part of which can already be done in the store), but as another poster mentioned, you can utilize same traffic that brings in the full bottles to take old ones back to the factory, it'd go back there anyway so transport costs are almost nothing.
Of course there's always a downside to everything, and you might not get all the bottles back, especially if the fee is not well balanced, too cheap and people will throw it in trash anyway, too expensive and someone will come up with non-returnable version.
Of course most people don't have anything even remotely resembling a cool cellar, so it's the choice between refrigerator and room temperature.