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Did Your Code Ever Make Anyone Deaf?

theodp writes "Siemens AG anticipates additional costs from a software problem with new mobile phones that has led retailers to suspend sales. Five models of its new 65 series can emit a piercing melody into users' ears if the battery fails during a call, causing hearing damage in extreme cases, according to a statement."

305 comments

  1. No, but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    it.slashdot.org made me blind.

    1. Re:No, but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I love you.

    2. Re:No, but.. by dtfinch · · Score: 0, Redundant

      All it is is white text on a very bright background. Is that too hard to read?

    3. Re:No, but.. by Scud · · Score: 1

      it.slashdot.org [slashdot.org] made me blind.

      Then you should have stopped when you needed glasses.

      John

      --
      I dream in binary.
    4. Re:No, but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YES!

    5. Re:No, but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes.

    6. Re:No, but.. by ColonBlow · · Score: 1

      back in the day I had a screen saver I made that would create random colored pixels covering the entire monitor and scroll them across the screen in a wave like a flag. I called it "Look Mom, I'm Blind!" And I swear if you looked at it for more than 3 seconds your eyeballs would explode out of your skull.

      --
      free online diet tracking.
    7. Re:No, but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My eyes. . . the goggles do nothings.

    8. Re:No, but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen. Next color scheme up at Slashdot - green text on red background.

  2. No... by ebrandsberg · · Score: 4, Funny

    But if they looked at it they could have gone blind. Seriously, I've seen some messed up code, but deaf?

    1. Re:No... by Lurk3r · · Score: 1

      "Seriously, I've seen some messed up code, but deaf?"

      Obviously, you haven't download any music off of Kazaa lately...

    2. Re:No... by PeterPumpkin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Hearing damage" is sort of ambiguous I guess. You can lose your hearing in very small increments, only noticable over months or years of exposure. I doubt the phone would be able to output enough of a blast to take out your eardrums.

    3. Re:No... by gl4ss · · Score: 3, Insightful

      the thing is that you have the phone pressed against your ear, speaking to someone and *beep* it makes a sound you would hear to the next room.

      it's a stupid double idiotic design issue, first a) the phone makes a very irritating noise when it's battery goes out(meaning that actually the phone turns off itself long before the batt is really really empty, now they might have some reasons like reducing memory corruption, preserving the batt health or something like that) but the second design flaw is the more stupid one: it makes that shutdown noise even if you're making a call(and the batt runs low).

      personally I'd rather have the phone go down in silence and IF there's _any_ juice left let the phone wait untill the call is finished before turning off in a controlled fashion(also, it's less annoying if it just goes off without all the racket).

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    4. Re:No... by zerblat · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Actually, I think it's pretty useful that cell phones warns you when your battery is running low. At least on the Nokias I've used, the warning sound means you have a few more seconds to go, meaning you can end the conversation in a meaningful way. Or say stuff like "My cell phone is dying, call Alice inst...".

      Of course, the warning signal shouldn't be loud enough to make you deaf...

      --
      Please alter my pants as fashion dictates.
    5. Re:No... by matth · · Score: 2, Informative

      Interestingly my Samsong A310 doesn't quiet do this... but I have on several occassions gone to make a call only to be greeted with the phone going "BEEP" very loudly in my ear and when I look at the display it has returned to the regular "stand-by" screen. I'll tell you, that BEEP is extremely high pitched and loud an dI have yet to figure out why it does it.

    6. Re:No... by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      *Of course, the warning signal shouldn't be loud enough to make you deaf...*

      and if it is that loud it definetely shouldn't come up in the middle of the call. and it's not a as a "warning" signal as it is an announcement signal about the fact that your phone just turned itself off(so, you'll have a ringing ear and be pissed off that the phone just cut your call because it wanted to do a controlled shutdown instead of limbing as far as it could with the batt).

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    7. Re:No... by flyneye · · Score: 0, Troll

      hearing damage,maybe,constupation,definitly!
      if that happened to me,i would just HAVE to stuff the phone up some represenatives ass.particularly if i didnt get an IMMEDIATE free trade in for a safe phone.
      semens phone indeed.hmmph

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    8. Re:No... by emm-tee · · Score: 1

      You are criticising a feature which may or may not be present on the phone, that is, that a melody is played when the battery is flat. In fact, if you read the Seimens press release (link in Slashdot article), it's actually a melody to warn you that you have been disconnected:

      Because of the software error, if a telephone call is automatically cut off because the battery has run down, the disconnection melody could possibly start to play loudly. (My emphasis).

      It also appears that there is an option to disable this feature.

    9. Re:No... by jlehtira · · Score: 1

      At least Nokia phones go off before the battery is completely finished, maybe for the presented reasons above. Another reason I've heard is preserving enough battery for an emergency call. If, instead of your PIN number, you enter 112 or 911 or whatever, the phone will use whatever energy it can find.

    10. Re:No... by Atomic+Fro · · Score: 1

      The real design flaw was not using the microphone. Nearly all phones that I know of, when it makes loud noise to get attention, will use the microphone as the output device to make sure things like this don't happen.

      --

      ==================
      Hippie Logger Jock
      ==================
  3. Eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eh, what was that? I couldn't hear you!

    BTW, First Post!

  4. Where's the QA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seems like a simple test case to me: battery fails during a call.

    1. Re:Where's the QA by eln · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, if you keep your batteries charged at least halfway at all times, the phone is far more likely to burn your ear off before you get to this condition anyway. Most cell phones generate enough heat for you to want to end the call quickly far before this particular condition occurs.

      Having said that, I've certainly had cell phones whose "low battery" beeps can be pretty damn ear-splitting when they happen when you're in the middle of a call, but I've never had one that could actually make you deaf.

    2. Re:Where's the QA by APDent · · Score: 2, Interesting

      far more likely to burn your ear off

      or explode.

    3. Re:Where's the QA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
      low battery" beeps can be pretty damn ear-splitting when they happen when you're in the middle of a call

      Actually, I think you will find that the low battery beeps tend to occur at the end of your call. I.R. Pedant.

    4. Re:Where's the QA by jridley · · Score: 1

      Most cell phones generate enough heat for you to want to end the call quickly far before this particular condition occurs.

      That depends on your situation. If you're very close to a tower, the phone shouldn't have to put out much power to run a call, so the battery should stay cool.

      If you're in the fringes, or even worse, in an analog area, then the battery will get pretty warm.

      I have a Samsung phone, and even after a 30 minute call on the fringes, it's only warm (maybe 10 degrees above body temp), and then only on the back side.

    5. Re:Where's the QA by timeOday · · Score: 1

      It's rarely so simple. You probably have to lose receiver power just as you're accepting noise from bad reception, or somesuch.

    6. Re:Where's the QA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      burn your ear? what the heck are you using for a cell phone? my last 3 cell phones have NEVER gotten that hot.

  5. Oh no, another reason by NymblZ · · Score: 0

    for people to use Nextels or push to talk cell phones in public, "just in case". Oh well.

    --
    -- NymblZ
    Ignorance is a sty in the mind's eye
  6. Verizon Wireless by 968134 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Can you hear me now? What?

    1. Re:Verizon Wireless by Adam9 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Can you hear me now?

    2. Re:Verizon Wireless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No

    3. Re:Verizon Wireless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if the battery dies during the call it basically screams in your ear? It sounds to me like Siemens just manufactured a wife.

    4. Re:Verizon Wireless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what?

    5. Re:Verizon Wireless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh Oh!

  7. Testing. by hot_Karls_bad_cavern · · Score: 5, Interesting

    i know you can't cover every corner case, but, er a cell phone hitting low battery is not what i'd consider a corner case. Now, if there was 3rd party this or that crammed in there after the fact (ie customer did that crap), now way to forsee that, but damn....hearing damage? C'mon, if i had to choose one of two options:

    a) batt low, be fucking LOUD to warn of it..
    b> batt low, warn, beep, blink, flash, beep more...and then even more...

    hell, beep that ass off, but loud enough to damage one's ear? Fuck that. No one to blame, but the dudes that made it...period.

    1. Re:Testing. by hot_Karls_bad_cavern · · Score: 1

      ....er, no way to foresee that.....

      'tis the beer that makes me type not-so-well...it is Friday night no?

      What? It's Saturday morning? Shit, enough /. off to bed!!!

    2. Re:Testing. by Nos. · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's just it, wouldn't your low battery indicator be one of the things you would test? Even if it wasn't, if they had done enough testing and betas with staff, they would have run into that problem before releasing it to the customer. Guess speed to market is more important than quality, or in this case, safety.

    3. Re:Testing. by stuffman64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My Motorola V120 would beep uncomfortably loud when the batery got low. In fact, it would often cause ringing in my ear and I ended up shelling out money for a new phone because of this (not to mention that the battery would only last about a day on a charge).

      --
      --- At my sig, unleash hell.
    4. Re:Testing. by Neon+Spiral+Injector · · Score: 1

      The V600 still has a very loud low batt beep, and no way to adjust it seperately. When I get the first beep I end up putting the phone in low volume mode.

    5. Re:Testing. by lucas+teh+geek · · Score: 2, Interesting
      b> batt low, warn, beep, blink, flash, beep more...and then even more...


      my phone does this and its fucking anoying.

      "beep beep, im going flat, beep beep, all this beeping isnt helping, beep beep, no way you can stop me, beep beep, beep fucking beep"
      *turns phone off*


      i may as well have no low battery indicator since if it gets low and im not near a powersource with my charger handy, the phone has to be turned off anyway. really fucking stupid design choices, but i guess it's slightly better than going deaf
      --
      TIAEAE!
    6. Re:Testing. by mrsev · · Score: 1

      Mine was even worse... it would do this even when in silent mode. .... Imagine middle of meeting with big boss BEEP ..........BEEP... bastards.

  8. Can you hear me now? by Bill_Royle · · Score: 4, Funny

    Good.

    Sucks for Siemens. Heh... a twofer!

    1. Re:Can you hear me now? by random_culchie · · Score: 1

      Siemens shares were up 0.35 percent at 56.50 euros ($68) in late trading on the Frankfurt exchange.
      Looks like phones that make you deaf are a winner with the shareholders!

  9. Mod parent down! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Worse than goatse :(

    1. Re:Mod parent down! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Jokes about goatse are never funny.

    2. Re:Mod parent down! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude... before posting links like that a warning would be nice... I almost wish I could tear our my eyes, but you can never tear out your minds eye... :-P Seriously, warn before posting that crap again.

      --

    3. Re:Mod parent down! by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1

      You're new here, aren't you?

      --
      "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
    4. Re:Mod parent down! by jb.hl.com · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My advice; ignore any link on this whole fucking site with the word "goat" or "tub" in the URL.

      That fixes it.

      --
      By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
    5. Re:Mod parent down! by mikael · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Or it.slashdot.org

      Does the web page have to look like a document laser printed with an empty toner cartridge?

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    6. Re:Mod parent down! by sjames · · Score: 1

      Or it.slashdot.org

      ARRRRRGH

    7. Re:Mod parent down! by ACPosterChild · · Score: 1

      However, lemonparty is really cool.

  10. Hearing damage = deaf by Capt'n+Hector · · Score: 4, Informative

    Any time your ears ring, it's "hearing damage". I play violin, and whenever I practice, and for a few hours afterword, I get a noticable ringing in my ears. It actually doesn't go away fully, I can always hear this ringing (sometimes a lower frequency buzzing) at night. This is hearing damage, but I'm not deaf. However, if this were caused by a cellpone, you bet I'd be suing.

    --
    Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
    Africus aut Europaeus?
    1. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by Flexagon · · Score: 1

      But just try to win the case after discovery exposes an admission like yours!

    2. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by AlphaPB · · Score: 5, Informative

      The quiet buzzing when you're in a silent place is actually caused by the sound-sensitive cilia in your inner ear vibrating of their own accord when they don't have any external stimulation. This is a normal phenomenon.

      Of course, this is different from the kind of hearing damage that you're referring to. Maybe you should wear earplugs while practising. I wear them at rock concerts. You ought to look into musician's plugs, which have specially tuned noise-dampening responses that are consistent in how they reduce noise levels at various frequencies.

    3. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to what you can sometimes read in the news about americans suing each other, I wonder if we will see a range of lawsuits based on this defect.

      Since this is a rather easy bug to reproduce, I think some americans will shortly start suing...
      I mean, it is easy money, and juries will always reward stupidity, especially if it is against a large company.

    4. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 1

      You play violin loud enough to cause hearing damage? Sorry but err, I was in band for seven years, and even sitting/standing directly infront of a full marching precusison line rocking HARD didn't make my ears ring for hours...

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    5. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by obi-1-kenobi · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Its called Tinnitus.
      I have tinnitus
      (I used to have it then it went away... then I was exposed to more loud noises and it came back)

      I went to a Tinnitus specialist (Ear Nose and throat) and got my hearing tested. I have an above average hearing. However I hear ringing in my ears. After you are exposed to loud noise (usually amplified music) sometimes you can hear a almost like putting your ear on a shell... Its like a blowing noise...
      (people who go clubbing know this)

      This initial noise can go away... However sometimes if you are stressed out your mind will hear this noise and it will asume that you need to hear it. Because thoes actual hairs in your ear are now damanged and your mind keeps the sound. Then you will hear the 'ringing noise' in your ears when there is no other noise avaliable.

      This old Russian doctor who I saw told me this:
      "your brain is like a computer, there is no problem with your hardware, this is a software error. You need to learn how to ignore it" (this guy was like 70 years old, really neat old guy)

      The only way to stop it is to releax and have a background noise. If you pay attention to the noise you will get extremely stressed out and it will become worse.

      Your ears will also become more sensitive to louder noises, not really its just that you think to your self loud noise bad.

      NOW the reason people listen (like loud music), your brain percieves the pain in your ears due to the loud noise. It then releases a chemical in your brain that is similar to morphine.
      (according to the doctor)

      --
      "You win again Gravity!" -Futurama (Zapp)
    6. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by eliza_effect · · Score: 4, Informative

      A drummer friend of mine has these. They were custom -molded to his ears, and I think they were around $300 AFAIK. High price aside, he said they've pretty much saved his hearing, as he can hear everything just about as clearly as normal, however, most of the harmful frequencies are blocked. You can literally have them in and hear someone wisper, and then go play the drums without hurting yourself.

    7. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by silentbozo · · Score: 4, Informative

      There's a broad selection of musician's earplugs that preserve a select set of frequencies to aid in pitch transmission, while blocking the majority of the energy in the soundwaves.

      I always keep a pair of regular hearos with me - you never know when you'll need em (for example, you end up having to spend more than a few hours servicing equipment in a noisy server room, you want to catch a nap and want to block out noise, you decide to take a trip out to the range and need hearing protection.)

    8. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by Capt'n+Hector · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The violin gets pretty loud when your ear is right next to it. Funny thing is, the more in tune I am, the louder it gets. If I rest on a note for a while, it seems to dig itself in a bit, getting even louder. *shrug* I have a pretty loud violin.

      --
      Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
      Africus aut Europaeus?
    9. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not that the frequencies are harmful. It's the noise level. They're called Etymotic Musician Earplugs, and they reduce the power transmitted to the ear drum in such a way that it seems uniform to the human ear.... Flat attenuation. But it's not really flat. So far, that's quite impossible to do. But it's damn close to flat attenuation for most of the spectrum.

    10. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by phaze3000 · · Score: 2, Funny
      You sleep in noisy server rooms?

      /. really brings them out the woodwork..

      --
      Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
    11. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      sounds like a hardware problem with a software work-around to me.
      Fortunatly, I sleep next to my computers, so the ringing doesnt bother me much.

      --
      -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
    12. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You sleep in noisy server rooms?

      My whole house is a server room.

    13. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by KD5UZZ · · Score: 1

      Wow, I'd hate to see your monthly colo bill!

      --
      -Daniel
      KD5UZZ
      www.w5yj.org
    14. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once pushed Accept Call twice on my old Sagem Cellphone, which enabled hands-free and then put it to my ear to take the call. Well, I gotta admit I was drunken too (It was New Year's Eve), so I didn't realize first WHY the volume was so fucking loud...

      I guess that costed me some percent of my hearing ability as well :(

    15. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I play violin, and whenever I practice, and for a few hours afterword, I get a noticable ringing in my ears.

      Dude, it's not a drumstick. You're not supposed to beat your skull with it.

    16. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by danharan · · Score: 1

      OK, other people have told you this already in this thread, but

      WEAR EAR PLUGS

      I've seen way too many musician friends suffer from severe damage. After a while that tinnitus gets to be a real drag.

      --
      Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
    17. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by valkoinen · · Score: 1, Informative

      I get ringing noise in my ears sometimes, less frequently now that I've started to actually protect my hearing actively.

      I learned this thing somewhere and it works for me sometimes - When I start to get that ringing noise I can concentrate and make it go away. Usually I imagine the source of the ringing in my head and in my mind I "squeeze" the source until it goes away.

      It can be hard at first, but I usually can control it pretty well, or at least make it less audible so it doesn't bother me that much and when I forget about it it usually goes away too.

      I believe the brain just filters out the noise, but the trick is how to tell your brain to do that.

    18. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by magefile · · Score: 1

      Disclaimer: I know the daughter of the owner of this company. She fixed my hearing aids a few times.

      Etymotic Research is one of the more pioneering companies out there in the hearing field, and one of their big things is making custom-fit musician's earplugs. They cost $150-$200, which is slightly cheaper than most similar products.

    19. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by comwiz56 · · Score: 0

      I'm a drummer and I got a pair of these for $130. These things work exactly as you described them. Whispers come through fine where as I drums sounds like your hitting carpet. These have definately been an earsaver well worth the money.

    20. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      Maybe he's the violin player in a thrash metal band - which come to think of it wouldn't be a bad thing. I miss the days when music was made with instruments - when was the last time you heard a saxaphone or trumpet in a song (besides when you pop in your Earth Wind & Fire CD.)

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    21. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by Fnkmaster · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Now imagine instead of an auditory disturbance in your middle ear, it was a balance disturbance in your inner ear. That's what vestibular neuritis is, which I got last year (presumably from a virus that somehow got through the tympanic membrane into my inner ear, though there were never any substantive middle ear symptoms, probably from blowing my nose too hard, though nobody really knows shit). It's like tinnitus of your balance system. About 6 or 7 weeks of my life were living hell - in a constant state of torturous dizziness, unable to walk farther than to the bathroom and back, and when I was in good shape, to the living room.


      The funny thing is by the time the otolaryngologist/otoneurologist got around to ordering all the tests and stuff, it had already started to abate somewhat (though the balance tests they did made me so nauseous and dizzy, I was back in bed for 3 days afterwards - won't be doing THAT again, despite the recommendation for 6 month follow ups). In my case, the damage to the vestibular system on the right side is apparently permanent - so it turns out that just like tinnitus, your brain has to adapt to the spurious signal coming out of one side of your peripheral vestibular system and learn to filter out what is essentially white noise. The brain, being an adaptible organ, is remarkably good at this - you become highly visually dependent for a while as the brain resets the system (can't look at the damned venetian blinds hanging in my own room, for example). Over time the visual dependence has abated, and I'm left with only a mild predisposition for motion sickness if I don't see EXACTLY what is going on, so I take dramamine and valium when I'm on a plane or bus or something.


      Anyway, you don't realize how dependent you are on your balance system until it stops working. Truly one of the most unpleasant experiences of my life. I wonder if tinnitus sufferers have one of the same long term symptoms that I have - a vastly increased sensitivity to caffeine and alcohol. I used to slug down coffee like nobody's business, but now if I have more than about 2 cups in a two or three hour window, it causes the dizziness to come back, and usually takes at least a day or two to abate, sometimes longer depending on how much I overdid it. It's like the volume on the white noise gets turned *WAY* up.


      And I still drink beer and wine regularly, but hard liquor is tough - if I do the kind of drinking I used to do in college and get really drunk, my balance system gets crazy on me, kicks out, and I puke everywhere (even if I am only moderately drunk). The aftermath the next morning is even worse - I end up partially-bedridden again for a week or so at a time.


      Okay, lest I sound like a cripple, I have learned to live with all this stuff, I just drink half-caf coffee or one small cup of caffeinated tops a day, and avoid the binge drinking, which makes me sorely miss my college days, but I just see it as the price of getting older (yeah, I'm a whopping 25 years old). And at least my liver will last till I'm 80 now.

    22. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quote: " I play violin, and whenever I practice, and for a few hours afterword, I get a noticable ringing in my ears."

      Yes, I've heard you. It hurts my ears, too. ;-)

    23. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      old Russian doctor told me this: your brain is like a computer, there is no problem with your hardware, this is a software error. You need to learn how to ignore it

      You can get a license to practice medicine in Russia just by working for Microsoft tech support?

    24. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by jrockway · · Score: 1

      I like loud music because I like the vibration from the subwoofer. In fact, when I listen to loud music I plug my ears.

      Actually, due to years of ignoring the fact that you need to plug your ears when playing the piccolo, I have rather poor hearing in my left ear. It's *really annoying* when I set up a new stereo system because the sound is perpetually unbalanced for me. Just thinking about it irritates me. (My brain can compensate, so when I use headphones I don't play with the balance. But if I think about it, I can tell that my left ear isn't doing it's job. *sigh*)

      --
      My other car is first.
    25. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's fine, I hate seeing it too.

    26. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by Thurn+und+Taxis · · Score: 1

      Actually, there's no direct evidence that the stereocilia of hair cells (they're not true cilia, by the way) are motile in mammals, although there's currently a strong and sometimes bitter debate in the cochlear mechanics field about this. Most current cochlear models take into account the somatic motility (that is, the whole cell can change length in response to electrical stimulation) which has been well documented in isolated outer hair cells and isolated cochlea preparations, and, indirectly, in vivo. Lower vertebrates (reptiles, amphibians and birds) have motile hair bundles, but don't have somatic motility. Most of the debate centers around whether mammals have retained this ability, and if so, what purpose it serves (since the somatic motility seems to be the key component of sound amplification).

      The issue of spontaneous vibrations is also up to debate. It's been argued that spontaneous otoacoustic emissions (sounds coming out of your ear spontaneously, which many people have) occur when the somatic-motility-based amplifiers go unstable. However, a recent paper (Shera, 2000) showed that such emissions can occur even if the amplifiers remain stable, so no spontaneous oscillations are needed.

      As for the ringing in your ears (tinnitus), it can occur in the absence of damage, but if you've been exposed to loud sounds and you hear ringing afterward, that's a good sign that you've suffered at least some temporary (but not necessarily permanent) hearing loss. Best to avoid being in such situations on a regular basis.

      --
      On stereophonic equipment, the monaural sound obtained through multiple channels will enhance your listening pleasure.
    27. Re:Hearing damage = deaf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      omg lol this is hilarious. Dude post more. Keep up the good work. Don't for one moment think that not many people are reading this downmodded stuff. This is freakin hilarious. Well done.

  11. Maximum volume by whereiswaldo · · Score: 4, Insightful


    What is the maximum volume on this phone? Why not just cap the volume at a non-hearing-threatening level and be done with it? If they don't do that, isn't it just a matter of someone cranking the volume too loud, or is the low battery warning allowed to exceed the regular max. volume level?

    1. Re:Maximum volume by Nos. · · Score: 1

      The problem is, what is too loud for your ear when the cell phone is in use, is too quiet to hear when its on your belt under a jacket/sweater, so you wouldn't hear it ring/text message/low battery/etc.

    2. Re:Maximum volume by whereiswaldo · · Score: 1

      The problem is, what is too loud for your ear when the cell phone is in use, is too quiet to hear when its on your belt under a jacket/sweater, so you wouldn't hear it ring/text message/low battery/etc.

      Why not handle that with vibrations instead of sound?

    3. Re:Maximum volume by Flexagon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Didn't even old 500 phones have a current limiter across the earpiece to prevent just this sort of thing? (I.e., a phone ring voltage somehow arriving while the handset is at your ear.) This isn't a new problem.

    4. Re:Maximum volume by Rexz · · Score: 1

      What if you're not wearing the jacket?

    5. Re:Maximum volume by whereiswaldo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is, what is too loud for your ear when the cell phone is in use, is too quiet to hear when its on your belt under a jacket/sweater, so you wouldn't hear it ring/text message/low battery/etc.

      What if you're not wearing the jacket?


      Ok, good point. Some thoughts:

      - what gives the phone the "right" create noise pollution no matter what you're doing? Maybe you have something else much more important going on at the moment? If you've left your phone in your jacket which you're not wearing, presumably you're not expecting an important phone call.

      - why not put a separate speaker on the backside of the phone which can emit piercingly loud volumes?

      Anyway, under no circumstances should hearing damaging volumes be used where the user puts their ears. I think that much can be said.

    6. Re:Maximum volume by Animats · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wireline ring voltage is 88V 20Hz, so all you get is a loud bass buzz.

    7. Re:Maximum volume by Rexz · · Score: 1
      1) Telephones don't work like that. You don't strap your phone to your body when you're expecting an important call then lock it in a draw when you're finished. Often the important call comes unexpectedly, perhaps bringing vital news, saving lives, or even money. If you're genuinely in a situation where you do not want to receive calls, there already exists an off button.

      2) It goes without saying that noises that damage hearing should not be made when the user has the phone to their ear. Where the noise comes from is irrelevant. Building expensive redundant hardware - like a second speaker - into a phone is pointless when there already exist well engineered software solutions. For example, imagine that you have your phone set to ring at the absolute maximum volume because you work in a noisy environment. If you have just finished a call and someone else rings immediately, modern phones will start off ringing at a low volume, gradually building to maximum until a button is pressed, giving you ample time to move the device away from your eye when it's making barely a whisper.

      Solutions exist already to the problem of phones and loud noises. This is a stupid oversight, not a systematic flaw.

    8. Re:Maximum volume by sopuli · · Score: 1

      The maximum volume is quite high as it you can also use it as a speaker phone.

    9. Re:Maximum volume by nordicfrost · · Score: 1
      What is the maximum volume on this phone?


      Probably pretty high. Several phones that include polyphonic ringing tones use the speaker to play the ringing sound. I've experienced something similar on my GFs Samsung phone, when it went dead during a call. Exremely loud sound playing, right smack into your ear.

    10. Re:Maximum volume by Strom+Carlson · · Score: 2

      The WE 500 series (and pretty much every Western Electric phone introduced after 1949) has a varistor across the receiver element to prevent loud clicks and pops from hurting the user's ear. The older phones don't have this; holding a 302 up to your ear while playing with the telephone line can be a painful experience :)

    11. Re:Maximum volume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that the ear piece is also the ringer. What they should have done is use the sensor in the flip phone. If the phone is opened, then disable/mute the ringer.

      My guess is that they might have use an interrupt for the low battery warning and forgot to turn that off.

    12. Re:Maximum volume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The maximum volume is quite high as it you can also use it as a speaker phone.


      My trusty ol' Ericsson R520m also has speaker-phone capabilities. It also has a infrared sensor next to the speaker. The phone will throttle the volume if anything (such as an ear) is close to the speaker. The same sensor is also used when you turn off the alarm signal: you don't have to find the phone, it is enough to wave in its vicinity. Neat if you want to go on sleeping ;-/

      J

    13. Re:Maximum volume by Edie+O'Teditor · · Score: 1
      Why not handle that with vibrations instead of sound?
      Because that would use more power, making the situation it's warning you about even worse. Huh, what's that you say? The loud sound uses quite a bit of energy too?

      I'll get me coat.

      --
      If X is the new Y, and Y is "X is the new Y", solve for X.
    14. Re:Maximum volume by sopuli · · Score: 1

      Too bad you got modded down for posting anonymously. Anyway, that sounds like a good solution. Another case where Swedes have placed safety first. Maybe after this negative publicity other firms will also implement this.

  12. Funniest thing by cablepokerface · · Score: 3, Informative

    My gf bought one of these things a couple of days ago, when this statement was released the Dutch news networks thought it was important enough to put in the news on the radio. So I heard it driving home from work.

    The first thing I did when I got home was telling the misses that that tune she always hears when the phone is actually ringing on the other side (when every phone user already has the thing to his ear) was not here to stay.

    I am not sure if this is how it's done with every Siemens but with her it was menu option 3.8.3 (or Sound Options -> Other Tunes -> Connection Tune (on/off). Get rid of it.

    1. Re:Funniest thing by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      this doesn't refer to the connection tune though.

      this refers(as the blurb says) to the phone shutting itself down while you're making a call, and during that process of shutting down it plays a tune at pretty high volume(while you're holding it next to your ear).

      it's probably adjustable in siemens phones sold nowadays, i had some older model for a while and couldn't find where the hell to turn off the 'low batt' warning sound.. was very annoying and made it impossible to have it on silent anywhere where you would need the phone to just stfu(it would keep beeping when batt was low even if it was on 'silent').

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  13. Misread by xsupergr0verx · · Score: 5, Funny

    I thought it said "Did Your Code Ever Make Anyone Dead?"

    That time will come, but first the killer robots need some touching up around the joints...

    --

    Click here for a free picture of an iPod!
    1. Re:Misread by PsiPsiStar · · Score: 1

      How about those Navy ships with windows installed... and one of them froze up and was stuck at sea helpless a while back. Fortunatly not in any danger at the time.

      The time is now. It's just that your killer robots won't be bipedal. We've already got folks who can do that trick.

      --

      ___
      It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
    2. Re:Misread by xsupergr0verx · · Score: 1

      Or those idrive Windows CE equipped cars that went wonky.

      --

      Click here for a free picture of an iPod!
    3. Re:Misread by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has happened
      Very interesting read.

  14. Mobile Phone Usage by Detritus · · Score: 4, Funny
    However, this danger can only arise if the mobile phone is held up directly to the ear while the melody is playing.

    Gee whiz, what are the chances of a user holding a mobile phone next to their ear? I always keep mine strapped to my elbow.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    1. Re:Mobile Phone Usage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It usually doesn't ring while its at your ear.

    2. Re:Mobile Phone Usage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of the time when my low battery tone sounds it is when my phone is sitting on my desk, in my backpack, in another room, etc... So the chances of it not being by your ear are pretty good when the low battery tone sounds. It's good that they make the tone loud enough to let you know to plug it in for a charge, just not loud enough to make you deaf.

  15. engeneer by Rotkiv · · Score: 1, Funny

    whoever made the phone has very talented engineers.

    what did they have 90 year old review the phone for them?

    --
    RArr!
  16. Let that be a lesson by Insurgent2 · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's what happens when you outsource the hardware to Singapore and the software to India.
    "Soft beep" in Mandarin probably translates to "Loud, deafening tone" in Hindi.

    1. Re:Let that be a lesson by TheCyko1 · · Score: 1

      Actually, "Soft Beep" would translate into "Soft Beep"

      --
      This message was brought to you by the death of 30 brain cells.
    2. Re:Let that be a lesson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, right. You must be one unemployed moron to assume that all screwups must be due to outsourcing. Maybe the space shittle (not that's not a typo) crashes are due to the same reason, eh?

    3. Re:Let that be a lesson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're the loser who uses pig fat in a product destined for the middle east - because it's THEY who are insensitive and aren't comming up to the NORMAL standards right?

      Mod this guy down some more ppl, fucking roast his karma.

    4. Re:Let that be a lesson by Insurgent2 · · Score: 1

      What's the matter? Another Friday night go by without you all getting laid?
      It was a joke based on the number of outsourceing articles we've been seeing and the How 8 pixels cost Microsoft Millions discussed right here on SD.
      It's obviously not me that's intolerant.

  17. How many dbs? Frequency? by Shant3030 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Anyone know the db and frequency of any of the ring tones?

    Could not find the info. Purposelly withheld from the articles?

    --
    100% Insightful
  18. Re:Well, I wish Microsoft follows suit... by ravenspear · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Will MS suspend sales of Windows and Office until all the bugs are ironed out?

    Why not simply suspend purchases of Windows and Office? Switch to something better.

  19. Design Defect by Detritus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The driver and transducer should have been selected so that there was no possibility of dangerous sound levels, no matter what the software decided to do.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    1. Re:Design Defect by PetoskeyGuy · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, the programmers finest defense. Blame the Hardware. :o)

    2. Re:Design Defect by Rasta+Prefect · · Score: 1
      The driver and transducer should have been selected so that there was no possibility of dangerous sound levels, no matter what the software decided to do.

      Except that a failed battery indicator should be hearable accross the room.

      --
      Why?
  20. No, but... by neuro.slug · · Score: 1

    Editing code using vim with default syntax coloring has caused near-blindness on many a night.

    -- n

    1. Re:No, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do your p0rn make them blind too?

    2. Re:No, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      :colorscheme desert
      is what I'd recommend in troglodyte mode.
  21. My professor... by A1miras · · Score: 4, Funny

    Often upon seeing my solutions to the labs in my first programming class, the Professor would let out a shriek that caused hearing damage to virtually everyone within a 3 mile radius and killed several Koi fish in a nearby pond.

    --
    Take Care

    A1miras
    1. Re:My professor... by dtfinch · · Score: 1

      For every lab, every student?

  22. Re:Hearing damage = deaf OFFTOPIC by prichardson · · Score: 1

    Captain Hector!

    I haven't seen an Escape Velocity Reference on Slashdot before. It's pretty exciting.

    I would write more but Stud Beefpile is chasing after me :-).

    Oh, and because I have never seen this flamewar before, Clarinet is so much cooler than violin.

    --
    Help I'm a rock.
  23. My old phone did something similar by drawfour · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I had a Samsung SCH-8500, SprintPCS. Sure it made sounds when the battery died, but it was usually a quiet beep. However, at times (and for causes unknown to me) it would beep really really loudly in my ear. Me being the idiot that I was, I never got it replaced. Probably should have. It may have been a heat problem (talking too long), but I'm not sure. It was loud enough to be painful.

    Anyway, I now have a Sanyo PM-8200 and I'm quite happy.

  24. Try an exploding phone for size... by Numen · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you think that's funny try "mobile phone exploding" on Google =)

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8& q= mobile+phone+exploding

    1. Re:Try an exploding phone for size... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was the funniest thing I've ever read.

  25. What the..? by Azureflare · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Does the hardware for these phones not have a built in filter to protect the user from this type of thing?

    Isn't there hardware in these devices that prevents very loud noises/extremely high pitched noise? I mean, how hard is it to put a volume hardware filter on these devices. There's no reason to have something as loud or as high pitched as was being described, is there?

    As a side note, what if an mp3 is corrupted on my mp3 player and the corrupted data causes an extremely high-pitched tone to be emitted for a long duration...? Do mp3 players have hardware (like a volume filter, or a high pass filter) that would prevent me from going deaf?

    1. Re:What the..? by bot24 · · Score: 1

      My MP3 player is not capable of putting out enough volume to hurt my ears without me manually upping the volume to unsafe levels, because it is cheap. I usually use the Ogg Vorbis player on my N-Gage(I don't care if it is sideways, it is a decent size and it has bluetooth. I don't talk on it very often.). My N-Gage has this terrible problem. I will get adjusted to the quiet in the house or whereever, and the lowest volume that the phone can handle will be painfully loud. What is wrong with these cell phone people? If I want to hold the phone far away from my head I can use the speakerphone setting. I have used the speakerphone as an extended volume range once, but only because I was on a bus with loud band and choir people and the signal wasn't that strong.

    2. Re:What the..? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hardware costs money where as software is often percieved as 'free'.

    3. Re:What the..? by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1
      Yeah. It's called taking the headphones off.

      In all seriousness, mp3 players have no need to play sound that loudly unless you turn the volume really high manually (in which case it's your own fault). Cellphones aren't the same way, because they also need to ring. It's not quite comparable.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    4. Re:What the..? by juhaz · · Score: 1

      Does the hardware for these phones not have a built in filter to protect the user from this type of thing?

      Nope. See, phones are supposed to be pretty loud so you hear when it's ringing, far away from you, but those pesky laws of physics tend to mean that the volume that is "pretty loud" some distance away is INSANELY LOUD when it's 1cm from your eardrum.

      Hardware that knows when you're holding the phone is by no means impossible, but it would raise the costs a bit and... well, you know how these things go when it's about big corporations and mass produced items, every damn cent is counted ten times.

      Software on the other hand has a simple way of knowing when you're near the phone, and easy workaround for lack of hardware. If call is on, or someone has been twiddling with controls during last n seconds it's pretty sure that someone is handling the thing, make it mute the overloud beeps and everything is fine... until someone forgets to implement the feature.

    5. Re:What the..? by H09N0X10U5 · · Score: 0
      don't care if it is sideways, it is a decent size and it has bluetooth. I don't talk on it very often
      That's because you have no friends, loser.
      --
      The post anonymously option you are [not] attempting to use is one that isn't available to your user.
    6. Re:What the..? by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      my old Nokia 5185i has independant components for the ringer and headset, the ringer points out the side of the unit so even though it can be painful if it goes off next to our head it isn't being directed towards your ear.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    7. Re:What the..? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      "Hardware that knows when you're holding the phone is by no means impossible,"

      Actually an alternative solution would be to have two speakers. One for ringing and one for the ear. The ringing one would be somewhere else - like tha back of the phone or something.

      Of course that's still more expensive and takes more space than just one speaker.

      --
    8. Re:What the..? by juhaz · · Score: 1

      Of course that's still more expensive and takes more space than just one speaker.

      That, and would it actually do any good? It's not like the back of the phone is THAT much farther from your ear than the "speech" speaker.

    9. Re:What the..? by Brianwa · · Score: 1

      At least some of the older phones had a seperate piezo speaker as a ringer, but now the speech speaker is used so they can play the fancier, multi-note ringtones, etc.

    10. Re:What the..? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Actually it does.

      For most speakers there's a big difference between being in front of it, and being behind it.

      If your ear is right next to the ear piece, when the "ringtone" speaker blasts away it's not blasting your ear - it's blasting away from your ear. Maybe someone sitting next to you on the train may be annoyed, but since that person's ear is likely to be > 10 cm away it's a lot better than the 0.5 cm scenario.

      --
    11. Re:What the..? by jetmarc · · Score: 1

      > Isn't there hardware in these devices that prevents very loud noises/extremely high
      > pitched noise? I mean, how hard is it to put a volume hardware filter on these devices.
      > There's no reason to have something as loud or as high pitched as was being described,
      > is there?

      There is reason.. All modern cellphones play "poly-phonic ringtones" (music/voice/noise
      instead of the simple beep melodies that older phones provide). To do that, they need
      a real speaker w/ amplifier (instead of a piezo beeper).

      Since a speaker is also required for the earpiece, manufacturers dont want to outfit the
      cellular phone with two independant speakers. Thats unnecessary weight, volume, and
      price. Instead, a single speaker is used and the amplifier is programmed to a low power
      high quality "earpiece" operation during calls, or to high power low quality for "ring"
      operation.

      The problem now is that the SIEMENS cellphones power down when the battery is too low
      to maintain the call, and while doing so switch from "earpiece" (call) to "ring" to
      play the shutdown music. Two independant pieces of software dont interoperate well.

      The obvious fix is to maintain a flag somewhere that indicates likeliness of the user
      holding the phone to his ear. This flag could be set by the call function, and wont
      be reset until the call ends PLUS a few seconds of reaction time ("Hello? Can you hear
      me now? Oh damn").

      Marc

  26. Only after three tries by RollingThunder · · Score: 4, Informative

    The story on El Reg has a bit of helpful information (emphasis mine):

    The flaw affects version 11 of the software of the C65, CX65, M65, S65 model phones, and then only if the phone has already issued three low-battery warnings.

    With the "only after three" it sounds like this was meant a 'feature' where they assumed that if you didn't do something after the first three beeps, it must be in your pocket or somewhere else you can't hear it - so crank up the volume.

    Obviously, they forgot that people won't immediately end their calls - rather, they'll stay on the call, because their phone is about to die, and they want to get as much info across before it kicks the bucket.

    1. Re:Only after three tries by canavan · · Score: 1

      I think that the loud noise it plays is not actually the battery warning, but it's the user-defined melody the phone plays when it has finally given up and shuts down.

  27. Re:Hearing damage not always = deaf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Actually, a "ringing" in the ears is called tinnitus and can occur for many reasons, the majority (but certainly not all) of which are benign. Something as simple as aspirin can set it off; in fact, almost anyone listening to/for sounds in a reasonaly quiet room for any length of time may begin to experience it.

    Golly gee Mr. Wizard, that's more than we wanted to know.

  28. Re:How many dbs? Frequency? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    db is a unit. You're probably asking about the SPL.

    --I'm so anal.

  29. Well, it's ONE solution by Dorsai65 · · Score: 1, Funny

    to the problem of all the lame asshats spending all their time with a cell phone stuck on their ear.
    Anybody that spends that much time using a cell phone, the rest of us are probably better off - they go deaf, they don't need the phone anymore, right? No more talking & driving, talking & putting on makeup, talking & whatever.
    [note to /. moderators: please adjust moderation by 1/2 - the second paragraph was only HALF-joking...]

    --
    --- Asking inconvenient questions for over 30 years...
    1. Re:Well, it's ONE solution by bustersnyvel · · Score: 1

      The stupid thing is... my phone never dies because it's idling in my pocket - it's always during a call!

  30. Seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Whats the big deal, I can read it.slashdot.org just fine. Maybe you should get your eyes checked out.

    1. Re:Seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for the input, Stevie.

  31. My point, exactly. by hot_Karls_bad_cavern · · Score: 1

    Wrote a post the other day about being discouraged (and pissed) about companies (and ultimately your fellow man) being willing to "fuck ya" just to get a buck, beat the "other guy" to market, and make another buck.

    Burns me up.

    This is just not an "oversight"...surely they tested this....surely. All i can do is sigh and just....fuck it - makes me...just sad. This should have shown up in routine, run-of-the-mill tests...and they shipped it anyway.

    Fuck it. :(

    1. Re:My point, exactly. by gl4ss · · Score: 2, Informative

      the 'feature' has been in siemens phones in one way or another for quite a few years already.

      this time they just overdid it.

      definetely wasn't about 'saving a buck', just about plain stupidity.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:My point, exactly. by Class+Act+Dynamo · · Score: 1

      I disagree. It probably was not stupidity. I bet they designed this phone and then discovered the problem later. Then they asked their lawyers about liability and other things and figured it would be cheaper to release the phones and deal with lawsuits and whatnot rather than redesign the phone. That's the corporate way.

      --
      My other computer is a Jacquard loom.
  32. hmm.. by chame1e0n · · Score: 0

    how many people can hear if you and deaf people can hear?

    1. Re:hmm.. by H09N0X10U5 · · Score: 0
      how many people can hear if you and deaf people can hear?
      Is this something to do with trees falling in a forest?

      --

      --
      The post anonymously option you are [not] attempting to use is one that isn't available to your user.
  33. Re:Debsux by sakura+the+mc · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    agreed

  34. Ah, the irony... by urlgrey · · Score: 1
    Hearing damage could result "in extreme cases," the company said in a statement.

    Siemens shares were up 0.35 percent at 56.50 euros ($68) in late trading on the Frankfurt exchange
    Yep. That just about sums it up.

    ----
    --
    Running 'Nix is like owning a Lightsaber. It's "a more elegant weapon for a more civilized time."
    1. Re:Ah, the irony... by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1

      Siemens make a lot more than just cell phones. In fact there's a fair chance that the repeater stations your phone is getting calls from are buit by them. Not to mention the turbines and generators that power the base stations...

      Having said that, their cell phone division blows big time. I owned a Siemens SL45 for a short while, until it self-destructed. I'd have to say their customer service was the worst I'd ever dealt with - unbelievably arrogant.
      I returned the phone for repair, they lost it for three months and eventually returned it, still not working and with even more damage (looked like someone had pried the case open with a screwdriver). In the end, after I'd wasted uncountable hours trying to get the thing back, they claimed it was water damaged (not true) and refused to have anything further to do with it.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    2. Re:Ah, the irony... by Krach42 · · Score: 1

      WHAT?

      --

      I am unamerican, and proud of it!
    3. Re:Ah, the irony... by H09N0X10U5 · · Score: 0
      "Siemens make a lot more than just cell phones."

      Yes, including extremely shit wireless lan cards, that their webs[h]ite doesn't carry drivers for.

      --
      The post anonymously option you are [not] attempting to use is one that isn't available to your user.
    4. Re:Ah, the irony... by urlgrey · · Score: 1

      Siemens make a lot more than just cell phones. In fact there's a fair chance that the repeater stations your phone is getting calls from are buit by them. Not to mention the turbines and generators that power the base stations...

      Yeah. You're absolutely right. I'd also add that Siemens does make a lot of solid, quality products in an array of industries. (Not counting your personal experience with a phone of theirs.)

      I was simply struck at how in the article they made no mention of any other news with Siemens that might count for the stock price increase, and it came across more as: "bad news at Co., stock price up."

      ----

      --
      Running 'Nix is like owning a Lightsaber. It's "a more elegant weapon for a more civilized time."
    5. Re:Ah, the irony... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Siemens make a lot more than just cell phones."

      Yeah, Siemens makes hearing aids too...

  35. An idea by Teahouse · · Score: 3, Funny

    Here's a horrible idea I know some l33t3r is probably working on right now. How about a worm that makes the screen strobe-flash red? I wonder how many poor kids some idiot programmer is going to put into convlusions to prove they have skills. Infect 1 million computers with this, and you can expect at least 100 seizures. You know someone is working on it.

    --
    "Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect."- Steven Wright
    1. Re:An idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OH NOES plz don't give them any more great ideas d00d OH NOES

      oh noes you know someone is working on it

    2. Re:An idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, NOW they are.

    3. Re:An idea by ivoras · · Score: 1
      Infect 1 million computers with this, and you can expect at least 100 seizures. You know someone is working on it.
      Two words for you: *brown noise* ! :)
      --
      -- Sig down
    4. Re:An idea by edittard · · Score: 0
      *brown noise*
      I thought that was how you get mod points or a story accepted by michael (unless you are Roland Piquepaille or whatever his name is).

      Oh. You said "brown noise". I'll get me coat.

      --
      At the bottom of the /. main page it says 'Yesterday's News'. Well they got that right.
    5. Re:An idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how about this? :) http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/rgb.php

      An old flash which I guess many of you have encountered already. Send it to loved ones :]

  36. Re:Well, I wish Microsoft follows suit... by dtfinch · · Score: 1

    I mean, everytime I reload the OS, the apps, my data, and reboot, the system crashes yet again - and needless to add, I screeeeeaaammmm. This has happened since 1998.

    I'm using Linux now, but I must say, the great majority of Windows+Office users' systems are relatively stable, aside from things that are beyond Microsoft's control, with WinME being the main exception. I've seen bad ram or heat problems give the appearance of buggy software, because often it'll cause them to fail in the same places each time, etc.

  37. You've got it all wrong by lildogie · · Score: 2, Funny

    Just after the shriek, look for a bystander that hates cell phones, holding a gadget in his hand, and smiling.

    1. Re:You've got it all wrong by Shriek · · Score: 0
      Just after the shriek, look for a bystander that hates cell phones, holding a gadget in his hand, and smiling.

      Hey, I resemble that comment!
  38. Re:How many dbs? Frequency? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, you. Purposedly withheld? You bet. That's right, you. They're looking for you and now they've found you. Don't worry. It's just as you suspected. You and Mulder will be united^H^H^H^H^H^H reunited just as you predicted. You know as well as I know that they witheld this information just to trap you in their snare. Why o why did you give in. Why!! Ah crap... who cares..

  39. somewhat like the: Funniest Joke in the World by jimmydevice · · Score: 0

    Voice Over: This man is Ernest Scribbler... writer of jokes. In a few moments, he will have written the funniest joke in the world... and, as a consequence, he will die... laughing..... Somewhat like this situation, but totally different.

  40. Re:How many dbs? Frequency? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tin foil hat brigade. Quick! We found another prospect!

  41. No, but... by precogpunk · · Score: 3, Funny

    I had a user complain that my website gave them a hairy palm.

  42. Software errors also cost lives by msblack · · Score: 2, Informative
    My old Samsung SCH-3500 had a similar problem but the folks at SprintPCS could never locate the problem nor would they offer a replacement.

    One of the most serious software problems involved the Therac 25 computerized radiation therapy device. Several patients received exterme overdoses of X-rays due to a programming bug. It's a well-known case covered in some computer ethics classes. Unfortunately, most software is exempt from product liability claims.

    --
    signature pending slashdot approval
    1. Re:Software errors also cost lives by PitaBred · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most software CLAIMS to be exempt. There are cases where it can be liable, especially when it's marketed to a specific purpose and fails. Kinda like those "Not responsible for broken windshields" signs on the back of dump trucks... they may say they aren't responsible, but at least in my state, they're responsible if they didn't secure their load correctly and a rock comes off and breaks my windshield.

  43. New Poll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny
    Does it.slashdot.org make you

    [ ] Happy
    [ ] Sad
    [ ] Nauseated
    [ ] Suicidal
    [ ] Manic
    [ ] Blind
    [ ] Anonymous Coward
    [ ] Cowboyneal

    1. Re:New Poll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      it makes me horny but then again, i'm always honry.

    2. Re:New Poll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [*] Suicidal

    3. Re:New Poll by tropavantgarde · · Score: 1

      actually, it seriously does make me manic. reading slashdot=not sleeping=screwed up neurotransmitters=me manic.

      --

      --A witty sig proves nothing.--

  44. Totally OT, but.... by hot_Karls_bad_cavern · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    i normally rip on Michael for posting crap, but looking back over tonight he's done a fair job of picking good stories. i should probably post this on my own journal, but felt i'd make it public-like.

    Seriously, nice track of stories tonight. Mod OT if you like, but i needed to post for the record (i'm not an ass). Fair is fair, Michael, you did alright by tonight. Peace, bro.

    1. Re:Totally OT, but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PEACE BRO

    2. Re:Totally OT, but.... by edittard · · Score: 0
      i should probably post this on my own journal, but felt i'd make it public-like.
      Why not just take the story and post it again, maybe tomorrow or the day after?
      --
      At the bottom of the /. main page it says 'Yesterday's News'. Well they got that right.
  45. No, but reading Perl did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (relax, moddies, it is just a joke)

    1. Re:No, but reading Perl did by edittard · · Score: 0
      "relax, moddies, it is just a joke"

      That will only upset the little darlings more. It implies that 1) they're too stupid to work that out for themselves and 2) too ignorant to get it.

      Which of course, they are.

      --
      At the bottom of the /. main page it says 'Yesterday's News'. Well they got that right.
  46. The lame punchline by jimmydevice · · Score: 0

    I will die laughing. JimD. I got kicked out of a bar in Spokane tonight. Having a white trash vacation to Silverwood.

  47. Iriver IFP195 by brainiac · · Score: 1

    My Iriver IFP195 occasionally emits a head blowing sound when the battery has almost lost all its power. I would estimate it way over 95 db.

  48. no, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's neutered several and lobotomized a few others.

  49. real genius by what+the+dumple+is · · Score: 1

    "Would you call that a design problem or a launch problem?" -Chris Knight

  50. No, but... by errxn · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...I got a Blue Screen of Deaf once. Does that count?

    <ducks>

    --
    In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
  51. Call the RIAA! New DRM technique! by SB9876 · · Score: 1

    It's been a while so my memory is a bit fuzzy so I'm paraphrasing:
    Back in High School, programming on Borland Turbo Pascal (6.0?), I noticed the following gem in the help file description of the sound generation function. In addition to the ususal function parameters, etc, there was an odd little anecdote about how the resonant frequency of a chicken head is about 3 Hertz and how one time a factory that generated this frequency at high volume ended killing all of the chickens in a neighboring chicken farm. It them went on to say that the resonant frequency of a human skull was about 1 Hz but that the PC speaker probably couldn't generate that frequency very well.

    WTF!?!

  52. PC speaker by O0o0Oblubb!O0o0O · · Score: 1

    When I first started programming with Turbo Pascal in the early 90s, I learnt how to make the PC speaker play a tune. However, I was never able to convince anyone to put their ear that close to my bigtower :-)

  53. No but by ewe2 · · Score: 1

    plenty of people have screamed :)

    --
    insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
  54. SprintPCS and Sony by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

    Anybody remember those cell phones by Sony that had the thumbwheel and a flip out microphone stalk? That was back before Sony got of actually making their own cellphones like 5+ years ago.

    SprintPCS provided those Sonys. But, they had a problem (or at least the ones that my wife and I owned did) - sometimes the software would crash, perhaps related to a drop in signal level, hard to say because it was fairly rare. But when they crashed, they crashed LOUD.

    The speaker, which you've got right up against your ear because you are in the middle of a conversation, would go blare out a constant tone at maximum volume when the software crashed. It was the kind of LOUD sound that would kick-off one of those reflexes that only makes it to the upper spinal cord before reacting - you'd be talking along and then all of a sudden your ear would be sore and you had just thrown the phone across the room and you weren't quite sure why.

    Except for that, those were some damn good phones though! They survived being thrown across the room many times. The cheap shit you get today will break if you just drop it on a cement floor, never mind chucking it like it was a live grenade.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    1. Re:SprintPCS and Sony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buy a Nokia cellphone, replace the bundled battery with some cheap, crappy non-Nokia battery, and then you can really say you're chucking the phone like a live grenade!

    2. Re:SprintPCS and Sony by ebrandsberg · · Score: 2, Funny

      This brought a smile to my face. Just thinking of chucking a cellphone like a grenade does that. I don't know why...

    3. Re:SprintPCS and Sony by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1
      you'd be talking along and then all of a sudden your ear would be sore and you had just thrown the phone across the room and you weren't quite sure why.
      That happens sometimes when I'm talking to certain clients on the phone. Funny thing is; I never hear any loud sounds from the phone when it happens.
      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    4. Re:SprintPCS and Sony by lachlan76 · · Score: 1

      he cheap shit you get today will break if you just drop it on a cement floor, never mind chucking it like it was a live grenade

      Mine doesn't - Ericsson T100. Looks like it's made of polycarbonate.

    5. Re:SprintPCS and Sony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      you'd be talking along and then all of a sudden your ear would be sore and you had just thrown the phone across the room and you weren't quite sure why.

      That happens sometimes when I'm talking to certain clients on the phone. Funny thing is; I never hear any loud sounds from the phone when it happens.

      My experience is that the loud sounds come from the boss a little aftarwards.
    6. Re:SprintPCS and Sony by suwain_2 · · Score: 1

      This brought a smile to my face. Just thinking of chucking a cellphone like a grenade does that.

      Yesterday I was driving along, and gently swerved to miss some grey thing in the road. I ended up hitting it anyway, probably because, as I got close, I started trying to get a good glimpse of what it was. It looked like a cell phone.

      Made a nice loud crunch, and then I saw a car on the side of the road backing up to try to retreive what I'd just flattened for them.

      I'm still trying to figure out how you might 'accidentally' chuck your cell phone out the window. Must be that they had one of these phones?

      --
      ________________________________________________
      suwain_2 :: quality slashdot p
  55. Three words... by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2, Insightful
    ... Use A Mute.


    Yes, I know it screws up your tone a little. Better to lose tone than lose hearing. Plus, your neighbours with thank you for it.

  56. Not quite the same... by SmittyTheBold · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...but I had a Motorola V120X that showed numerous interesting behaviors, especially when it came to ringing.

    My (least) favorite was when I'd answer the phone, and the conversation would be connected, but the phone would continue ringing until the phone call ended. You can bet I made sure those calls were very short.

    I hated that phone.

    --
    ± 29 dB
  57. Re:How many dbs? Frequency? by jimicus · · Score: 1

    I'd imagine it depends on the ring tone. And since 3rd party ring tones are pretty popular in Europe, there's probably not much point in specifying particular ring tones. You'll just confuse the customer.

  58. I've got a new M65... by Zarathustra.fi · · Score: 5, Informative

    And it's software is a piece of crap, full of bugs! I know there're software updates out there, but conveniently Siemens didn't supply the phone with a data cable. But hey, I could buy it for 30 euros! Brilliant, I can buy myself a right to patch the phone!! Or, as it turned out, I could find the single provider in my home town who's able to patch the phone. Though, I'm not sure if it's cost free even there..

    Enough of personal whine, here're some of the most annoying bugs and misfeatures:

    - The sounds are really loud, even in their lowest setting.
    - Software crashes if I try to read SMS messages through a shortcut interface. Instead, I must go carefully through few extra menus not to crash the system.
    - GUI jams if I cancel a call just after I dialed it in
    - The battery dies in just a few days' casual use
    - Sometimes during battery charging the screen backlight hangs on, so when you pick up your phone, the backlight has used all the power in the battery and it's all out again.

    So, these are the "few" little bugs I'm experiencing. My previous phone was not totally bug free itself, but those few little hickups were nothing considered to these MAJOR bugs Siemens let in the wild with a crappy software on a good looking phone!

    --
    __
    Zarathustra.fi
    Modern man has no goal, no aim, no ideals.
    1. Re:I've got a new M65... by juhaz · · Score: 1

      I know there're software updates out there, but conveniently Siemens didn't supply the phone with a data cable. But hey, I could buy it for 30 euros! Brilliant, I can buy myself a right to patch the phone!!

      Why should they bundle the data cable for software update reasons when 99% of the people wouldn't know how to use it anyway? And the cost of the cable would only be included in the phone price, instead of going away.

      No need to buy any "rights", just drag the piece of crap to the folks you bought it from - or the nearest Siemens reseller, if it isn't the same - and have them patch the firmware.

      Or, as it turned out, I could find the single provider in my home town who's able to patch the phone. Though, I'm not sure if it's cost free even there..

      It's almost certainly free during the warranty and depending on the shop maybe, or maybe not after that.

  59. Forgive me if I've ignored non-modded comments by incog8723 · · Score: 1

    Danger levels 95 dB - 4 hours 100 dB - 2 hours 110 dB - 30 min 120 dB- 7.5 min http://www.hearnet.com/at_risk/risk_aboutloss.shtm l Sound level Maximum allowable duration per day 90 dB 8 hours 92 dB 6 hours 95 dB 4 hours 97 dB 3 hours 100 dB 2 hours 102 dB 1½ hour 105 dB 1 hour 110 dB ½ hour 115 dB ¼ hour or less

  60. The laws of acoustics and hearing damage by incog8723 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I submitted a comment accidentally without the proper references, but basically, OSHA says that

    Sound level:
    Maximum allowable duration per day
    100 dB: 2 hours
    102 dB: 1½ hour
    105 dB: 1 hour
    110 dB: ½ hour
    115 dB: ¼ hour or less

    Reference: http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_docum ent?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9735

    So, unless your cellphone is expressing 115db ringtones, for over 15 minutes, and you're STILL listening to it, you have nothing to worry about. DUH!!!!!! This is a case of hot coffee from McDonalds. If you're having a painful noise injected into your ear, you remove yourself from the source. Hot coffee is even MORE of a reason to sue than this. WAKE UP PEOPLE.

    1. Re:The laws of acoustics and hearing damage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I could be wrong, but I believe the fact that this is a pure tone in a frequency the human ear is most sensitive towards, combined with the fact that the sound source is right next to the ear rather than sitting on a desk in front of you increases the risks somewhat.

    2. Re:The laws of acoustics and hearing damage by LordK2002 · · Score: 1
      I imagine that those values apply to the "typical" person with average hearing.

      Somebody who already had sensitive hearing, such as by listening to loud music or playing in a band, might find that the tolerances are a lot lower. These people would not necessarily assume that a mobile phone was going to emit a noise that was over their pain threshold.

      K

    3. Re:The laws of acoustics and hearing damage by xoran99 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Recall that the decibel is a (logarithmic) measure of sound intensity, and that is subject to the inverse square law. If one halves the distance between the source and the observer, the intensity is doubled. The decibel measurement is not doubled, since the scale is logarithmic, but it is still clear that, as the source comes closer to the observer, the decibel measurement becomes very large. Also, as another poster noted, the ear is more sensitive to some frequencies than others; therefore, a table like this is a bit too simplistic.

      --

      Karma: Bad (mostly due to all those "In Soviet Russia" jokes)

    4. Re:The laws of acoustics and hearing damage by Daetrin · · Score: 1

      Um, who said it wasn't above 115db? Clearly if they had been following the rules in the first place it wouldn't be a problem. According to this page it starts hurting at 125 db, so the sound may very well be above that when you're holding the phone against your ear, which would place it well off the end of the safety chart.

      --
      This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    5. Re:The laws of acoustics and hearing damage by syukton · · Score: 1

      I don't know exactly how sound waves propagate, but you have to consider speaker proximity to the user's ear. If they're on the phone when this happens (as is the case here) then it's conceivable that they could get a blast at a volume which would cause instantaneous damage.

      It looks like the allowed duration is halved every 5 decibels. The linked articles don't specify the loudness of the tone emitted by the phone, but I think it's safe to extrapolate: 120 dB = 1/8 hour, 125 dB = 1/16, 130dB = 1/32, 135 = 1/64, 140 = 1/128, 145 = 1/256, 150 = 1/512, 155 = 1/1024, 160 = 1/2048, 165 = 1/4096, 170 = 1/8192. So you'd have to get at least 165 dB for about one second, 170 dB for about a half-second, or 175 dB for about a quarter second, in order to be permanently damage, if my guess is correct.

      Can a cellphone speaker do that? Maybe.

      --
      Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.
    6. Re:The laws of acoustics and hearing damage by Reverberant · · Score: 1
      I imagine that those values apply to the "typical" person with average hearing.

      You're almost right. The OSHA levels are a compromise between levels that would affect the hearing of most people, and the economics of mitigating sound levels.

      The OSHA guidelines are designed to protect 85% of the population. It's assumed that the OSHA limits won't protect the remaining 15% of the population, and that they will be entitled to financial compensation

      ,
    7. Re:The laws of acoustics and hearing damage by canavan · · Score: 1

      170db with a cell phone? Hardly, because it would probably just fall apart at that level, but the equivalent of 140db measured from 1m away? Maybe, since the distance is probably in the range of 5 mm, and thus just 1/200th of the distance that's usually used to take those measurments. Additionally, due to the proximity, a large part of the acoustic energy emitted by the phone enters your ear. Note that at 140db the extrapolation you attempted above fails, because at that level immediate damage may occur.

    8. Re:The laws of acoustics and hearing damage by Idarubicin · · Score: 4, Interesting
      So, unless your cellphone is expressing 115db ringtones, for over 15 minutes, and you're STILL listening to it, you have nothing to worry about. DUH!!!!!!

      A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Some rough guesstimates--I'm in a bit of a hurry this morning, and someone is welcome to do a sanity check.

      Say the phone rings at perceived 85 dB when it's on your belt or in your pocket. That's loud enough to be heard over most traffic downtown, though you would likely miss it if a truck was going by. Figure the phone is one meter (a little over three feet) away from your eardrum.

      When the phone is at your ear, the speaker is maybe three centimeters (about an inch) from your eardrum. That's a reduction in distance by a factor of around thirty or so. Since sound intensity follows an inverse square relation, you're looking at about a thousand times as much intensity. The decibel scale is logarithmic, so that's an extra 30 dB right there, putting us at 115 dB.

      If the phone is a little louder than that initial estimate, or held slightly closer to the ear, we're moving towards 120 dB and up. Even if it's not doing permanent harm, those sounds are loud enough to be physically painful at short durations, especially if the person is listening intently and not expecting to be blasted. The startle response that's prompted could also be harmful.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    9. Re:The laws of acoustics and hearing damage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please read a little bit about the McDonalds coffee law suit before using it as an example of frivilous litigation. It's easy to find information about it with Google. Here's a good place to start:

      http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

      Get the facts and think for yourself instead of clinging to popular opinion and hype.

    10. Re:The laws of acoustics and hearing damage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, should have made that link clickable.

    11. Re:The laws of acoustics and hearing damage by Jerf · · Score: 2, Informative

      Worse; the sound is dissapating into the environment at your belt buckle, but will be directed into your ear if you have it at your ear when it goes off. You can probably tack on another 3-10 dB for that, depending on the phone's construction. (Wide range there because I don't know the numbers, just the effect; for that matter it may come out over 10, I'm just not confident about it.)

      The inverse square law is for a perfectly spherical emitter in an obstacle-free environment (a sea of air), in reality it can be a bad over- or under-estimate, depending on whether the sound is being directed toward or away from you. This is one of those cases where it an under-estimate, possibly a very bad one, because the sound is fairly directional by design, and when held to your ear, it is directed right into it.

      As the sound gets more and more directional, the drop-off approaches 0; you can never reach that, but if you've heard about those ultra-sound based speakers that use non-linearity in the air to create audible sound, one of several reasons they are cool is their ability to be highly directional (higher frequencies can be more directional), so you can beam sound across a football field if you want, since the sound's directionality borrows the characteristics of the ultra-sonic frequencies. Cute trick.

    12. Re:The laws of acoustics and hearing damage by alienw · · Score: 1

      170db with a cell phone?

      Yes, it's definitely possible if you are holding it close to your ear. It won't fall apart (there isn't much energy in the sound), but it will blow your eardrums.

    13. Re:The laws of acoustics and hearing damage by BrodyVess · · Score: 1

      By your analogy-

      If Siemens phones were 20-30 db than all other phones on the market, and they had caused signifigant amounts of damage to a large number of people before Siemens acknowledged there MIGHT be a problem- then yes, YOU SHOULD FUCKING SUE.

      People forget in the "frivilous" McDonalds case that MickeyDees was serving coffee at 200 degrees, or about 20-30 degrees above industry standard, for three years. They KNEW that it had severly injured people. They had settled out of court before. All this one lady wanted was enough money to cover THIRD DEGREE BURNS to her crotch. McDonalds offered her 500 dollars. She sued for a few thousand- just enough to cover the SKIN GRAFTS her hospital stay required.

      The jury then awarded her a multimillion dollar settlement that a judge reduced, that lawyers took their cut out of, and that had to cover her medical bills.

      Please, if you don't have the slightest fucking clue in the world what you're talking about- dont.

      Yes, John Edwards was a trial lawyer. He represented a 5 year old girl who was disembowled by a faulty swimming pool valve. But he's a mean evil lawyer, isn't he?

      --
      No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
  61. Re:Call the RIAA! New DRM technique! by Sidicas · · Score: 1

    It them went on to say that the resonant frequency of a human skull was about 1 Hz but that the PC speaker probably couldn't generate that frequency very well.

    Sorry to disappoint you but there is no way that any PC Speaker would be able to generate the resonance frequency required to kill chickens or blow up skulls. I heard that there is this song by RMS that causes exploding skulls but it doesn't use resonance freq to do so...

  62. um... no. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    3 hz? 1 hz for the human skull? maybe if someone hits your head once a second... but otherwise, i think not.

  63. Ericsson And Sony-Ericss phones have similar flaws by djace · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've owned an Ericsson phone, and it had a similar flaw. After hitting the Automatically Redial option when a number is busy, when the phone is able to go thru, it plays a LOUD tone. And, this is done even when the phone is on "Silent" mode. Newer Sony-Ericsson models only do this when the "Silent" mode is off. Even though, nowhere in the manual does it say that you should NOT hold the phone next to your ear when using the Automatically Redial option.

  64. What a Surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's evident, Siemens signed a contract with Britney .

  65. Flash websites with music by Reverant · · Score: 1

    I, like most people, have fell for the "it's past midnight, I'm wearing headphones so as not to disturb the spouse" situtation, when I visit this flash site, for which the author felt like a loud metal theme would do it justice. So you end up with jumping off your chair, waking up the wife, with a temporary buzzing in the ears, not to mention "pillow talk" for half an hour.

  66. Possible explanation here by Archimonde · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Older siemens mobile phones had two speakers. One was normal speaker and the other was just for ringing. When batteries reached minimum the ringing speaker sounded with ear piercing beeps but fortunately the speaker was placed on the side of the phone.

    Todays phones have one speaker for both communication and ringing. So siemens probably sticked to their software design and implemented it in the modern phones. The result is obviously not so satisfying considering those high pitched tones resonating in your ear.

    --
    Trolls are like broken clocks. They show the truth two times a day. The rest of the day they talk nonsense.
  67. why it has to beep i don't know.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's the most annoying thing to have your phone constantly beeping at you when it needs recharging - for no other reason than it is using quite a lot of its precious battery life to make an annoying beeping sound.

  68. Re:How many dbs? Frequency? by ameoba · · Score: 1

    I can't say for sure if it was one the models in question but a few weeks ago, I was eating dinner at a Mexican restraunt and some lady had her phone start making a really loud high-pitched constant tone. A rough guess is that it was in the 4-8KHz range and loud enough that it was unpleasant from 20-30 ft away.

    The worst part is that she wasn't smart enough to remove the battery from the device, so this went on for a good 5 minutes.

    --
    my sig's at the bottom of the page.
  69. Not that part of the body anyways... by Scud · · Score: 1

    But I've been known to have thrown a few backs out when picking up the resulting scrap metal :)

    Experience varies directly with equipment ruined.

    Truer words were never spoken :)

    John

    --
    I dream in binary.
  70. I have a Nokia 3310 by Insipid+Trunculance · · Score: 1

    and till date(thank god )i havent had any software problem.Over 2 and half years and no crashes due to buggy software.i must have dropped it about a 100 times and despite a cracked screen it still works.

    Sometimes,old is really gold.

    --
    Wanted : A Signature.
  71. German engineering by theolein · · Score: 1

    I have no idea if this phone was designed in Germany or in some outsourcing place in the middle of Kuala Lumpur, but it says, to my mind, a lot about the pressure the engineers and designers are under, in order to keep costs low and deadlines held. So much so that, in order for the phone to make it to market in time, some marketing fuckhead decided to skip the QA altogether.

    I bet he's looking for a new job now.

    1. Re:German engineering by lizrd · · Score: 1
      So much so that, in order for the phone to make it to market in time, some marketing fuckhead decided to skip the QA altogether.

      I bet he's looking for a new job now.

      No, he was given an award and a promotion. He cut costs, increased sales and got people to buy a product in spite of the fact that it sucks. Those are the goals of people in marketing. They are not the same goals that customers and engineers. Remember that when you buy shit.
      --
      I don't want free as in beer. I just want free beer.
  72. They make them as loud as possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you ever sat on a bus while some asshole's ringtone phone is ringing, and he takes 10 seconds to pull it out and open it so that the whole bus can hear his incredible jazz-version of some Christmas carol ringtone?

    Ringtone phones make me want to kill someone. If you have one of these phones and I end up sitting next to you on a bus, don't be surprised if I pluck the fucking thing from your fingers and whip it out the window.

  73. Example of bad sound code... by feidaykin · · Score: 3, Informative
    I was using a friend's computer... this friend just happened to have the fancy Klipsch THX certified speakers, which cost a pretty penny... Anyway, we got to talking about old DOS games and this one called "Acid Tetris" came to mind, and for nostalgia purposes, we decided to download it. My friend was a little concerned something "bad" would happen running such an old DOS game in XP, but I was confident since I've run games like Dune II without any major issues, and besides, the worst that can happen is it just won't work... right?

    So, so very wrong. The instant it opened an eardrum-shattering scream let loose through the mighty, three figure dollar amount speakers. I instantly closed out the game only to find that a persistent buzzing sound was present. At this point I think my friend stopped breathing (fearing the speakers were totally ruined) and I thought, hey no big deal, I'll just reboot. Buzz sound was still there. Well no big deal, let's just power down and unplug everything. Buzz sound still there. I didn't think it was that bad, but this nameless friend of mine couldn't stand it and bought new speakers.

    And I now have a pair of Klipsch speakers that make a rather obnoxious buzzing noise. But they were free! So, in a sense, this bad sound code that almost ruined these speakers (they're worthless in dollar terms, no way I could sell them on eBay, etc) also provided me with free speakers that I never would have bought with my own funds.

    I must therefore both curse and thank the developers of Acid Tetris, and more likely the folks in charge of backwards compatibility at Microsoft, and my own stupid self for running an old program and trusting XP to not bork itself.

    If you've read this whole thing you're a brave, yet sad soul... but stay tuned for further adventures in computing with your hero(or nemesis?), the one and only Michael "Mad" Raymer!

    --

    "To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking

    1. Re:Example of bad sound code... by Zone-MR · · Score: 4, Informative

      It sounds like your friend hadn't set the volume levels correctly.

      Most likely, the speakers were set to a very high volume, and this was compensated for by setting the volume level on Windows XP very low. The old DOS game ignored the WinXP volume level, and produced the maximum output the sound card was capable of.

      If the speakers were set to produce a loud but non-destructive level of sound at the soundcards maximum output, this would never have happened. However badly the game was designed, it could not have made the soundcard produce an output higher than 5V pk-pk

    2. Re:Example of bad sound code... by mikael · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That was the bad thing with many MS-DOS games and early PC's, there was no audio control, as all sound was created by sending frequency as an 8-bit value to port 61h. If you were lucky, some games allowed you to switch the sound off. In order for me to play games at night or to play games with terrible audio, I had to lobotomize each game by doing an automatic disassembly and replacing E6 61 with 90 90.

      This replaced the instruction:

      out 61h,al

      with the instructions:

      nop
      nop

      Peace and quiet :)

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    3. Re:Example of bad sound code... by feidaykin · · Score: 1
      Heh... The volume levels were loud enough that her neighbors complained on a few occasions.

      And yes the nameless friend was female, though I refained from mentioning it in the other post. I had a funny feeling I might get up modded (though I was expecting a funny mod) and based on past experience it is unwise to mention females on slashdot since I'm usually swamped with "No way!" and "Impossible!" and "I slept with her!" comments. Know what I mean?

      Now watch everyone that read the other post read this one, and defeat the whole purpose of not stating the fact... Oh alright... Bring on the lame opposite sex jokes everyone! ;)

      --

      "To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking

    4. Re:Example of bad sound code... by Boiling_point_ · · Score: 1

      And for those who can see the enormous prank value in the above post... here it is :)

      --
      "If you create user accounts, by default, they will have an account type of Administrator with no password." KB Q293834
    5. Re:Example of bad sound code... by feidaykin · · Score: 1
      heh yeah i never went to those lengths, but then the most i ever did with assembly was unlock a few shareware demos and write a "hello world" program of course. beyond that assembly is just plain gibberish to me. I have this habit of learning a little bit of a lot of languages instead of actually learning a useful amount in any one particular.

      However, the highlight of my programming career was teaming up with a friend of mine in high school to make a game of Pong in "TrueBASIC" on the old Macs there. We found out it was impossible, because TrueBASIC didn't allow us to throw more than one keystroke into a variable at a time. And obviously we'd need that for 2 player pong... Ahh memories.

      --

      "To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking

    6. Re:Example of bad sound code... by Brianwa · · Score: 1

      I occasionally have my system set "incorrectly" like that... Some amplifiers need a line-level output, rather than the 5v peak-to-peak that can drive small speakers by itself. Although in my case turning the soundcard up too high just causes the amp to start clipping.

  74. Nokia 7650+, the phones to use... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've got a Nokia 7650 and it's got two speakers, one that is the earpiece - and outputs _just_ phone conversations when I'm talking to someone - and the external speaker which is situated on the top edge of the phone - ringing, speaker phone, and alerts all come out the top speaker.

    It's good. I get the little "alert" tone - phone's dying, calling coming in, phone's dead - and all without the blips and beeps coming through the earpiece speaker so I don't have to worry about hearing damage just because I've got the earpiece up loud so I can hear the silly buggers that talk as though their phone can pick up their speech from a foot - 30cm - away and I still hear the important blips and beeps.

    Seriously, if you buy a phone and it emits an ear piercing shriek when the battery's flat directly into you ear, take it back. Get a decent fucking phone and get on with your life.

    If you don't have the brains / cojones to do that, then give up on mobile phones and all other technology - you are too much of a mentally piss-weak cunt to use "advanced hi"-tech, go back to the rotary pulse dial*.

    *Yes, I am a jaded technical support guy - "The computer is a moronic but fast counting machine. It's yes and no questions with explanations in plain fucking english people!".

  75. It isn't like you don't have TWO ears by The+Other+White+Meat · · Score: 3, Funny
    Frankly, I do not see what the problem is.

    As the owner of a Siemens Series 65 phone, you have the responsibility to care for it. If you didn't feed your child, it would cry loudly, would it not?

    That the Siemens Series 65 phone emits an ear bleeding shreak when starved for energy (and obviously attention as well) is just survival of the fittest. Other phones may be regularly left to starve until shutdown, but with the Siemens, that is likely to never happen a second time.

    I for one welcome our ear destroying, power requiring, attention demanding Cellular Overlord®.

    --

    --- Generation X: The first generation to have SIG lines inferior to their parents... ---
  76. phone beeper by zogger · · Score: 1

    maybe a beeper to let you know you are getting a phone call. Have it in your wristwatch, a light flashing.

  77. low battery warnings - waste of energy? by LiSrt · · Score: 1

    I've always thought that beeps/warnings when a battery is about to run out are a waste - couldn't the energy used be better spent in continuing normal operation for a little longer until there's NO energy available at all?, after all by the time the warning appears it's usually too late (changing the battery will cut the call in any case), when my phone cuts off and shows a blank screen it doesn't take much thought to figure out the most likely problem...

  78. Hardware hack to fix problem below by Lisandro · · Score: 1

    a) Remove ear from speaker when loud annoying noise kicks in.

    Glad i could be helpful.

    1. Re:Hardware hack to fix problem below by Jack+Schitt · · Score: 1

      The real solution is to remove the speaker from the phone. That will prevent the low battery warning from deafening you... as well as prevent $name from talking your ear off.

      --
      This message brought to you by Jack Schitt's Previously Shat Shit
  79. Olden Code by MykeBNY · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm surprised some of the code from olden days hasn't made anyone deaf yet, with all that shouting..

    10 REM HELLO WORLD
    20 CLS
    30 PRINT "HELLO WORLD!" .. okay, bad joke..

    1. Re:Olden Code by Billly+Gates · · Score: 0

      You forgot 40 GOTO 30 :-)

  80. Statistically by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what's the chance of this occurring? Answers may include any fraction of a percent.

  81. Hearing damage...yeah, uh huh... by ScottGant · · Score: 1

    Yep, it caused hearing damage alright...about as much damage that you could have a nice lawsuit and get a little payola from the companies.

    Wonder how many people are going to try and find these phones and all of a sudden develop "hearing loss" and try to blackmail these companies now.

    People suck sometimes....

    --

    "Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it." - John Lennon.
    1. Re:Hearing damage...yeah, uh huh... by rs79 · · Score: 0

      People suck sometimes

      The good ones swallow.

      --
      Need Mercedes parts ?
  82. I caused hearing pain back in the late 80s by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    Back in the late 80s I was messing with a the PC Speaker sound command in Pascal. Neadless to say I found the sound command before the sound off command. And it was suck on a high pitch squeel for about 5 minutes while I had to go to the program put a sound off command recompile and run.

    I wasn't popular that day... Come to think about it I was never popular. Oh well

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:I caused hearing pain back in the late 80s by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Couldn't you just switch the computer off? You're talking about PC speaker right?

      Doh.

      --
    2. Re:I caused hearing pain back in the late 80s by suwain_2 · · Score: 1

      My VB teacher learned, thanks to me, that teaching the concept of "loops" at the same time as the "beep" command wasn't a good idea. Particularly when the loops we created tended to be infinite.

      --
      ________________________________________________
      suwain_2 :: quality slashdot p
  83. Conspiracy? by bluetooth_god · · Score: 1

    Just a funny thought, but I wonder if Siemens corporate has noticed a dip in sales from Siemens Hearing and is attempting to boost sales in the hearing aid sector.

  84. Re:Cake-farting by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    I find them tasteless and disgusting. But then I really don't have a sweet tooth.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  85. uncrossing eyes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My first programming teacher, this was in high school so it was a teacher, had slightly crossed eyes. So any advanced or crazy code was said to be a try at uncrossing her eyes.

  86. Dear slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I have somehow stumbled upon the toner cartridge for it.slashdot.org that you ordered a few weeks ago. It was sent here by mistake. I have repeatedly tried e-mailing it to you guys with the subject line "Increase your toner size!" but I don't think it ever gets through. Any suggestions? Thanks.

  87. Does basic ever make you deaf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I remember using QBASIC in my primary school classes, it went something like this, a lot of fun:

    FOR A = 37 TO 10000
    SOUND 10,A
    NEXT A

    Usually it gave them enough time to flee ;)

  88. Brown Noise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did Your Code Ever Make Anyone Deaf?

    No, but I have written an IE exploit that can make your computer emit the Brown Noise and you'll shit your pants.

    Sincerely,
    Eric Cartman


    "All things are marklar."

  89. I dont know what they are, but.. by floydman · · Score: 1

    out of curiosity I opened up their website, and I found a strange new concept of UI, where the links keep on disappearing and moving while you try to track them down to click them..hmm..

    You Americans have a weird taste to sweets....but its fun playing with(at least for the first 2 mins).

    --
    The lunatic is in my head
  90. I got half of it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My code has certainly made people dumb. But not deaf AND dumb.

  91. pfft by radja · · Score: 1

    the way people often yell into their phone makes me think they're already deaf. You dont have to yell, the phone is there to make you heard over a long distance.

    --

    No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
    --Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
  92. Translation takes expensive expertise by tepples · · Score: 1

    Actually, "Soft Beep" would translate into "Soft Beep"

    Not if the translators aren't paid enough.

  93. Let 'em go deaf.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ANYTHING to keep people off of their cell phones in public places or in the car next to me...

    It's even more annoying than, say, a screaming baby. I understand why parents have a baby there - they need to take care of it, by law and also as common human decency.

    I honestly can't think of the last time I heard a cell phone conversation that was really, truly necessary.

  94. Not nessi-celery by Safety+Cap · · Score: 1
    That's just it, wouldn't your low battery indicator be one of the things you would test?
    I'm sure they had a test case similar to:

    Test case #348b: Battery Low

    1. Install undercharged (6%) battery into phone
    2. Wait for battery level to drop to 5%
    3. Alarm Sounds
    #348b: pass

    What they really needed to do was Test Case #348c: Battery Low While In Use, but they didn't because:

    • The project wasn't budgeted for that much testing,
    • Marketing promised delivery of the phones by a certain date, and additional testing would cause slippage,
    • Other, more serious bugs needed to be fixed first (e.g., phone exploded whenever ringtones were played, phone spat hot acid whenever the user pressed the pound sign (#), etc.), or
    • Cmdr "Par for the Course" Taco was in charge of Project management.
    --
    Yeah, right.
    1. Re:Not nessi-celery by randomblast · · Score: 1

      >> phone spat hot acid whenever the user pressed the pound sign (#)

      this makes me so angry. it is called a _hash_, this (£) is a pound sign. how anyone could possibly confuse the two is quite beyond me.

      also, what's with the subject? don't you know how to spell necessarily?

      --
      ...these aren't my real teeth.
  95. Some tools of deafness by tezza · · Score: 1

    winamp, ogg vorbis and Creative have all helped, along with whoever coded the synths that Deep Dish use.

    --
    [% slash_sig_val.text %]
  96. Safety engineering can crop up anywhere by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You'd expect your code to be safety-critical on a jetliner or a radiation therapy machine, but would it occur to you to worry about danger to humans in a cell phone UI?

    This makes at least two places that cell phone embedded software has safety implications. The other is charge control on lithium batteries: a lithium fire in your pocket is enough to ruin your whole day.

  97. No, but... by Trekologer · · Score: 1

    I almost made my roommate deaf after screaming at my code.

  98. Hmmm.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is this anything like the way-too-loud-and -obnoxious 3-note tune the telephone screeches in your ear (at least in the US) whenever you trigger the "we're sorry, the call cannot be completed as dialed...." message? Somebody should be sued over that! It's made my ears ring at times. If there is a god, the guy who came up with that will spend eternity with that screech blasting him over and over and over...

  99. Reflex action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had that loud 'battery low' beep in my ear once. It was so loud that my initial reaction was to kill the phone. I body slammed it into the pavement so hard, parts went flying everywhere. It never did that again.

  100. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "But after viewing tubgirl, I did go blind."
    Ok, so now you're blind.

    "(same with goatse)"
    Ok, so you're blind, and you went and looked at goatse and became blind again. Nothing wrong with that... nope...

  101. No, but it can kill chickens by ChopsMIDI · · Score: 3, Funny
    From the borland Turbo C++ 3.0 help file for the function "sound()".

    /* True story: 7 Hz is the resonant
    frequency of a chicken's skull cavity.
    This was determined empirically in
    Australia, where a new factory
    generating 7-Hz tones was located too
    close to a chicken ranch: When the
    factory started up, all the chickens
    died.

    Your PC may not be able to emit a 7-Hz tone. */

    #include <dos.h>

    int main(void)
    {
    sound(7);
    delay(10000);
    nosound();
    return 0;
    }
    --

    How could I say to men: "Speak louder, shout! For I am deaf!"? -Ludwig van Beethoven
  102. Increased Revenue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is actually a feature designed by their other department to increase revenue.

  103. Ringing in my ear by ezHiker · · Score: 1

    Not quite the same thing, but on a couple of occasions, I lost the caller I was talking to, while not realizing it. They called right back while I still had the phone at my ear, which of course blasted an ear-piercing ring tone into my ear.
    I don't think I suffered any hearing damage, but... OUCH!

  104. Did my code make anyone deaf? by null-sRc · · Score: 0
    my favorite code to compile on a public computer then lock the station and walk away ;)
    #include <windows.h>
    #include <stdio.h>

    int main(){
    int i;
    while (1) {
    for (i = 1000; i < 1500; i+=50){
    Beep (i, 50);
    }

    for (i = 1500; i > 1000; i-=100){
    Beep (i, (i % 25) + 10);
    }
    }
    }
    for extra fun, find an animated gif of a police car and set it as background, then drag the screen lock thing off the screen.
    --
    -judging another only defines yourself
  105. No, I predict... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... one shade of red on another. Yes, I had a co-worker who liked this. Seriously. I don't know which would be worse.

  106. Don't Worry by suwain_2 · · Score: 1

    If deafened, just call 911 on a Nextel phone.

    (I'm trying to find a good article explaining it, though I swear I read it here. Essentially, a bug in Nextel phones caused them to lock up whenever the GPS was turned on. Dialing 911 was one way to ensure this happened, so, effectively, it was impossible to call 911.)

    --
    ________________________________________________
    suwain_2 :: quality slashdot p
  107. Enough accusations! by Acts+of+Attrition · · Score: 1
    Alright, so I overclocked my grandma's hearing aid. She was only temporarily deaf. Doesn't make me a bad person.

    Besides now she picks up Nasa communications to the mars rover. It keeps her entertained between episodes of CSI

  108. I nearly did by RareHeintz · · Score: 1
    Wish I'd seen this thread earlier.

    In fact, I used to work on a PC-based hearing aid fitting system with a rather complex custom sound card. One time, while testing the code for the clinician's monitor, I frobbed the upper dB limit on one of the outputs - which happened to be connected to headphones I was wearing at the time. When I ran my test code, I was immediately hit with a really loud 1000Hz sine wave. It hurt.

    The good news is that I don't appear to have done noticable permanent damage. My ears did ache for a few days afterward, though, and upon consultation with (and brief examination by) one of the staff audiologists, I was told that I had probably pulled the muscles in my inner ear.

    So, no deafness, but my code resulted in me pulling the smallest muscles in my body.

    OK,
    - B

  109. The subject by Safety+Cap · · Score: 1
    Please understand that I hold you only in the highest regard.

    I suspect at least one of your small distal interphalangeal joints is malfunctioning, as your sentence capitalization is incorrect/absent. Perhaps you will consider using another joint while you get the defective item repaired or replaced.

    As to your questions, I categorically avoid holding a 'battle of wits' with unarmed persons.

    Cheers, "mate"

    --
    Yeah, right.
    1. Re:The subject by randomblast · · Score: 1

      dear sir.
      the capitalization of my post has absolutely nothing to do with it's content. if you cannot keep your comment's on-topic, please refrain from posting.
      however, the subject of a message is undoubtedly connected to it's content, and a blatant misuse of the English language such as your 'necci-celery', which is not even phonetically correct, cannot be excused.

      --
      ...these aren't my real teeth.
  110. Poetic Justice by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 1

    I think is's fully appropriate for people to receive pain from their annoying ring tones. After all, they are a constant pain to us! I had already pictured Hell as a continuous version of this for certain people...

    --
    -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
  111. All your base should not belong to us. by sowth · · Score: 1

    No, it's called covering all your bases. The hardware should do all it reasonably can to filter out possible problems. So should the operating system. So should the applications--right down to where the functions receive input. That way nasty bugs (or malicious acts done by users) will not cause nasty problems.

    Are you a Windows programmer or something?

  112. Thank you by Safety+Cap · · Score: 1

    I had no idea that it-posessive was spelt it's. I find your ideas intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

    --
    Yeah, right.
    1. Re:Thank you by randomblast · · Score: 1

      i'm sorry, but it's restricted to those with high IQ. no offense intended.

      --
      ...these aren't my real teeth.
  113. My cell does the same thing by tjackson · · Score: 1

    I have a Samsung VGA 1000 picture phone. It's very buggy. One of the most annoying bugs is the fact that when you pick up a call, you have to be careful.
    The cell phone rings until you pick it up, but sometimes it rings once more. This is especially bad because the ringer speaker and the reciever are in fact the same speaker. So, just before you talk to someone at a quite volume only your ear can hear, it rings at a volume that can be heard from 200 feet away. YAY!

  114. Deaf users? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most cellphone users are half deaf anyway.

  115. ViIolin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your violin weeps loudly. /joke

  116. setmixer too by vinc17 · · Score: 1

    Installing the setmixer Debian package on the PowerBook can be dangerous for the ears too. I was listening to music with a headset when I installed it, and I won't do that again! After that, I'd had a headache for several hours.

  117. Nextel/Motorola "Call Lost" ultra-loud beep by The+Asylum · · Score: 1

    The Motorola I58SR phone for Nextel has two speakers, one at your ear, and a "speakerphone" speaker elsewhere in the handset. Due to assinine design, there is a loud "beep" generated in the _ear_ speaker when a call is lost due to low signal. The ear speaker is also where ring tones
    come out - so you'd better pray nobody is calling you if you put in your earphone and try to make a call...

    Of course, the low signal beep comes only when you've cranked up the volume and have the phone (with its water-resistant rubber seal) pressed tightly to your ear to hear the difficult-to-hear caller whose signal you're losing. I've actually thrown the phone in pain (once it broke my car windshield) after getting "beeped".

    What's even stupider is that previous phones (like the I1000) had the same problem, but there was a software patch issued almost immediately to move ringing and "beep" to the speakerphone speaker. Now Motorola and Nextel tech support departments both deny any knowledge of ever having heard of the problem, ever having had anyone report the issue (even though _I_ have, and I know several others who have - note to all tech support departments: if you don't bother to track bugs, you can just deny you've ever heard of them before, and never have to fix them!).

    I'm sure this would make a nice class action lawsuit, if any legal beagles are reading...

    --
    -- No No No NO, Don't tug on that! You never know what it might be attached to. - Buckaroo Banzai