Slashdot Mirror
HP Linux Laptop Is A Winner
minus_273 writes "MSNBC is currently running a story on the front page reviewing the new HP Linux laptops. In a story titled 'H-P's first Linux laptop a winner', the article provides a brief look at the accomplishments and some of the shortcomings of the nx5000; a new inexpensive HP business laptop that comes with SUSE installed. The author seems extremely happy about how everything just works out of the box and mentions the significance of the product. Could HP+SUSE go the way of Apple+BSD and become an option for those that want friendly non-windows laptop? Releasing an easy to use Linux system is a good first step." We mentioned this laptop a few weeks ago.
From my Suse/HP Laptop!
YESS! Now to hibernate!
MSNBC is currently running a story on the front page reviewing the new HP Linux laptops. In a story titled 'H-P's first Linux laptop a winner',
or
LinuxJournal is currently running a story on the front page reviewing the new HP Windows laptops. In a story titled "HP Windows laptops kick ass"...
I am amazingly surprised that an HP Linux laptop would become a sleeper hit like this. I mean, I thought it wasn't going to get much press and that it would only be purchased by people who really want pre-installed Linux.
MSNBC declares Linux laptop a winner? Is Microsoft losing control of their press^H^H^H^H^Hextended marketing department or what?
What's next, SCO declaring that Linux is great?
Will it win the gold, or will that gold medal be taken away. /posting from a suse dell laptop at work
Could HP+SUSE go the way of Apple+BSD and become an option for those that want friendly non-windows laptop?
People don't buy Macs because they don't want a Windows machine, they buy Macs because they like Macs!
Steve: We can't do that, it'd be murder.
Bill: Ruin his career then, have him sent to North Korea as a technology correspondent.
Steve: Yes, Master.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Wow, suprised MSNBC would put a pro-linux title and article on the front page
"I've happy to report that the combination is a winner." and I'm not even English and can pick it up!
Don't get me wrong, I like Linux and I think it is great that you can finally buy a Linux laptop where everything just works, but I still think it trails behind Apple. I can run Photoshop and MS Office on my iBook without any gimmicks or compromises like I would need to run them on a Linux laptop. Also, when I buy new hardware or look for a new program, there is a pretty good chance that there is support of OS X. The chance of finding mainstream items that support Linux is still very slim.
SIGFAULT
The author seems extremely happy about how everything just works out of the box
Just how low is the fsking bar when a reviewer has to note that nothing was broken when he first powered on the system?
C'mon people, raise your standards for a "good" system!
--
I always wanted an iPod how about you?
How soon before Gary Krakow, the columnist, is out of a job at MSNBC for such a glowing article about Linux. Perhaps it was a coincidence, but Salon.com recommended dumping IE, and soon thereafter Microsoft announced it was selling Salon.com
Microsoft has announced it's putting its share of MSNBC up for sale.
---------------------------------------------
SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I find it quite humorous that a Microsoft entity is touting a linux product so strongly - I think someone's getting fired. Good thing it's Friday.
Oh man, I have no idea what to believe any more.
REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.
I didn't see any price quote from the article, but MSNBC stated the model is currently available with windows. HP sells the SuSe based notebook for the same price, or likely more expensive, and gets big money off the consumer. This could turn out well anyway, but likely they'll sabatoge (sp) their own market.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
I work at a major university. I have been trying forever to get my boss to purchase all our machines with linux on them (he kept claiming that HP required us to buy them with windowsm which was true a while back). We went to Novell brainshare and saw SUSe 9.0 in action and linux has come a long way. SUSE 9.1 "looks even better (more eye candy at least)
It wasn't ready for my laptop about a year and a half ago but maybe now it is.
It's for real. I normally don't go for these things but...Free ipods (click here to get yours) .
Can the rumored MS/NBC split be far off now? Slate criticized IE, gets put on the block. We hear rumors of an ms/nbc split, and now msnbc is running positive reviews of MS' competition.
At least this proves that there's some speech left in the media not being controlled by the coporate overlords (who, if they're reading this, I for one welcome...)
Moo.
I put Gentoo on my HP ze5600, and I have been quite impressed. The winmodem works, the ATI Radeon works, the WiFi works with NDIS Wrapper, and even ACPI hibernate mode seems to work fine. I hope that companies like HP continue to support more variety in their OS options.
Second, here's a quote from the article:
What is the writer referring to? RPMs know where to install themselves, and what permissions to set. And does SuSE not have a menu system a la the Debian menu, which inserts itself in the various desktop environments?
So apparantly linux is ready for the laptop, but when will it be ready for the desktop?
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
If you need Unix on a laptop, why not just buy a Mac? You can run Microsoft Word, and WMP and Explorer and not have to worry about things. :)
The Mac is the fastest 64 bit computing you can buy.
From the article You still need to know a lot more about the inner workings of a computer to excel on a Linux machine. ... I mean you could get that by drinking the good wine that comes with Suse, or you could just use OO
You surely do if u want M$ Excel on a Linux Machine
Much can be said for how far Linux has come, but there's a long way to go, especially where finding and configuring hardware is concerned. (Don't reply with the sycophantic "Have you seen how good kxxxawsum is?"; yes, I have.) This looks like a major step.
Ok which one of you /.'ers sabotaged the MSNBC article. You know it really read "H-P's first Linux laptop a LO$ER"...
Hmmm "H-P" I do not think they were talking about the HP that I am aware of.
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
Looks good, however, will HP/Compaq please release an AMD64-based laptop that can run a 64-bit Linux out of the box as well?
Those shiny Compaq AMD64 laptops running Windows XP shore look purty. I'd just rather see a Tux sticker sitting where that "ready for future versions of Windows" sticker is now.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Gary Krakow has been fired from his post as Columnist at MSNBC.
Great! Too bad it's not someone who actually builds a good reliable laptop. I really don't care for HP junk, linux or not. And I really don't have a problem getting linux to run on my thinkpad:-). The way I look at it, it's these third-grade hardware manufacturers that give desktop/laptop linux a bad name.
Bot this fits in as "Less expensive than any other laptop that has seriusly tried to pry my Eye from Dell."
:)
Suse 9.1 on my Inspiron 8200 is a joy to use. The Modem didn't work properly when I set it up and I havn't goten around to fixing that (No free landline.)
Everything else is slick. To go the extra step of droping the cost, increasing the RAM and preloading my OSs of choice will make me happy. And I bet the modem on that HP works
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
those mac guys are so funny :)
Yes this proves that are still sites doing fair reviews(not like eweek or slashdot).
I headed over to HP to price this thing how I'd like it. The select box for the OS allows me to pick the Suse option, but only subtracts $50 USD. After some research, that's actually about right. So, where's the big money savings by going to linux?
True believers seek redemption from the sin of death.
Yeah, it's Linux so in Slashdot's eyes they instantly get 10 cool points, but come on.
Stuff not working out of the box is noteworthy in a bad way. Everything working the way that it's supposed to is just what's supposed to happen.
Yeah, I know for a long time it was a criticism of Linux that driver support sucked - so in a way I can understand why he'd mention it. But the fact that everything is supported on the laptop is not a good (TM) thing. It's merely the absence of a bad thing.
It's like saying that a new Windows Laptop was the best ever because it didn't explode when powered up, and didn't cause severe burns to the user's lap. Yeah, great that that's true, but it's not something to go around advertising - that would just show that you expected otherwise.
...Also, I didn't know Buggalo could fly.
I'd like to especially commend Hewlett-Packard for including LinDVD playback software with this machine. It, too, works right out of the box. When I install Linux on my personal laptops I usually have to buy software to watch a movie.
Is it just me or did this guy's credibility just take a hit? There hasn't been commercial DVD software for Linux for that long and I've certainly never heard of anybody using it over mplayer or xine. I guess he'll be the one linux user (other than all the folks who bought this laptop) who the MPAA won't sue when they get around to stopping us from viewing our own DVDs with our own software.
Will widespread acceptance of linux occur only when dominant software makers support linux, or will widespread acceptance of linux cause dominant software makers to support linux?
Which will come first?
It's my opinion that widespread usage will occur first. Then software giants will realize the demand, and they will start supporting it.
Linux deserves respect and support from vendors, and I believe it will get it soon.
Now, where the hell can I buy one? I went to hp.com and I couldn't find the nx5000 anywhere on the site without Windows XP.
Microsoft will come out with a so called update with a hidden feature that makes sure it doesnt work well with any Microsoft network..
"The author seems extremely happy about how everything just works out of the box." Don't get me wrong. I think Linux can be an ideal laptop OS, but when the reviewers are shouting, "Huzzah! It works out of the box!", it's a sign of what still needs to be done. I've spent some time getting Fedora working on laptops and have had a helluva lot of fun doing it. It's doable, certainly, but my idea of fun is certainly not that of the mainstream consumer (nor is yours, if you're reading this). Linux as a consumer OS will have arrived when it's just assumed it should work out of the box.
Could HP+SUSE go the way of Apple+BSD and become an option for those that want friendly non-windows laptop?
You mean charging $3000+ for a machine will get Linux market penetration? And who said theres no money in OSS!
in bed.
They [HP] are charging the same price for the laptop loaded with MS XP (not Pro) and Suse 9.1. I was kinda hoping that it'd actually be cheaper.
does it run Linux?
Go the sit and actually can buy one with SuSE. First thing you see is, "HP recommends Microsoft®
Windows® XP Professional"
Then try actually finding the one with SuSE Linux already installed as an option, all I am seeing is no less than 5 options all listing Windows as the default.
Most likely the Linux option will be under customize...
StarTux
You know why I wouldn't buy an HP. Shredded chakra-talk. Let me explain: Go drop an HP laptop from a roof (an older model, not worth much in the way of resell value, of course) and let it hit a hard surface at the moment it would naturally. Watch the debris shower. Note the fine structure of the shards. Then, come back and tell me there ain't going to be a talk/chakra issue, esp. when the dye-natured coloring fades.
"I'd like to especially commend Hewlett-Packard for including LinDVD playback software with this machine. It, too, works right out of the box. When I install Linux on my personal laptops I usually have to buy software to watch a movie."
What software could they have possibly bought to watch movies under linux? There hasn't ever been any commercial linux dvd player universally released.
I find this unbelievable that Microsoft (MS) would even ALLOW mention of a Linux-based laptop let alone allow comments as if it was something 'positive'. Since MSNBC is a joint effort between MS and NBC we can probably conclude that NBC won this one ^_^.
I don't have much faith in the monopoly that is Microsoft "turning over a new leaf" -- stay tuned some backlash....or a missing article (just like when MS had leaked a method would allow Windows XP Home users to have IIS run on their machines which was soon removed). No, don't worry, if the page returns a 404 File Not Found error we all know it's not cause of massive hits to the page itself... or is it? ^_^
My Dell has been working flawlessly over the last 18 months. $800 brand new from Dell. It runs 24 hours a day and no problems at all. The only thing that sucks is that it runs slow due to using shared video memory, but I have a workstation for stuff where speed is key.
My last notebook was a hand-me-down Toshiba Satellite 2000CDS. It was only 233Mhz with a 6gig drive, but was still working flawlessly after several years of travel and (ab)use.
I've heard a lot more complaints about defective iBooks and Apple refusing to recall known defective parts. I think I'll stick with Dell next time I'm in the market.
When this model was first announced, it sounded like all the power management would be preconfigured (suspend-to-ram and suspend-to-disk, cpu throttling, powering down the fan and disk). Is that the case? That's the biggest thing keeping linux off my laptops right now. Also, I seem to recall that the internal wifi hardware (intel 2x00) would not be supported, can anyone comment on that?
"For the record, Linux doesn't support Intel's wireless chip."
So I guess I can't possibly be reading this on my Dell 600m on the couch downstairs via my Intel wireless.... it must all be a bad dream. [makes sence seeing as msnbc is praising linux and hp]
*rolls eyes*
http://ipw2100.sourceforge.net/
Does MSNBC represent the Evil Left-wing Media or the Evil Right-wing corporation?
I'd like to especially commend Hewlett-Packard for including LinDVD playback software with this machine. It, too, works right out of the box. When I install Linux on my personal laptops I usually have to buy software to watch a movie.
I found that quote intriguing, as since I don't know a single commercial linux (software) DVD player that has been around for more than half a year are so.
Does anyone else see this as extrodinary that MSNBC did not spin a story towards microsoft for the first time. Its a good step for them, perhaps I should start looking at their news coverage again.
(honestly im not troll hunting here, being serious)
Victory is gained, not in knowing your opponents next move, but in preempting them.
No offense to the /. crowd and Linux fans, but I really hope families don't get bilked into buying Linux laptops or desktops without knowing what they might be getting into.
...instead... ...a really pissed off family that can't run little Sally's Barbie Dream Makeover software.
I personally think this ia a great step toward making Linux much more mainstream than it is now, but I fear that unsuspecting and uneducated consumers being led around by unhelpful and undertrained sales staff at Circuit City or on the HP sales line might find themselves with Linux machines they really don't like.
I could see a family making a computer purchase and visiting some retailers that, perhaps, start selling things like Linux laptops and Linux desktops as a novelty item. They get in the store and are like, "WOW! This PC is so much cheaper than that PC over there." They might even think, in their minds, that bad viruses and things come from Windows, so they're even more enthused about the Linux machine.
They get it home, and then they realize that they have to jump through hoops to play this game or open this document from work.
Granted, the process I outlined above has to occur to some degree in order to facilitate adoption of Linux as a mainstream PC operating system (or whatever you might call it). I just hope and pray that vendors like HP and major retailers don't jump on the bandwagon a little too eagerly in trying to sell these machines only to find that they've opened a Pandora's box worse than a MyDoom worm on Windows XP...
A family that ends up returning the Linux machine altogether rather than having the Windows machine with a virus serviced at Best Buy and put back into the wild.
My 2 cents.
IronChefMorimoto
... I wonder if they'll admit to the existence of this laptop?
-- Gargonia
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.
If a broken implementation of ps/2 keyboard and touch pad is what makes HP laptops a winner, then all of HP's recent laptops are awsome:
l e/ 2004-June/004073.html
4 /2 004-June/001642.html
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-mobi
http://www.plausible.org/r3000z/
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-amd6
This message brought to you by my desktop, because my laptop fails to boot any respectable OS.
:wq
MacOS X is the first OS to bring UNIX to the masses. Linux just doesn't cut it for typical users, and UNIX newbies as a desktop operating system. Despite years of relatively rapid advancement and increased compatibility, Linux remains difficult to learn to use.
But overall, (and here's where staunch Linux fans will take exception) this machine is not as easy to use for most computer users as the same machine running Windows XP or (if it could) Apple's OS X. You still need to know a lot more about the inner workings of a computer to excel on a Linux machine.
Maybe I'm missing the boat, but I think this is a given. I've never heard a Linux user claim that someone who's only familiar w/ Mac or Windows is going to fully understand (much less fall in love with) Linux the first time they use it. That kind of negativity - however slight and between-the-lines - is just pushing more people away from Linux by reinforcing the "theirs is harder to use than ours" idea.
You must figure out on your own things like where to store the software and associated programs and how to handle permissions. These are not things most consumers want to do.
...and because of this we have x million Windows machines running with little or no protection, instant worm-fodder.
Linux to me is professional-grade software - the difference between the Huffy bike you'd get when you're 10 and the 18-speed alloy frame bike you buy when you start racing. It won't always be that way; there are thousands of people out there pushing to make Linux more accessible to Mr. & Ms. Average Joe, but right now it's counterproductive to act like your average AOLer should be able to sit down with KDE and instantly feel at home.
They have to make it "sound like a winner" in order to get credibility. If you read on, you'll see that they don't recommend the PC for anyone who isn't a Linux expert because You still need to know a lot more about the inner workings of a computer to excel on a Linux machine.
So, basically, they said that its great but they don't suggest that 99 percent of the Joe Users out there buy the thing. Safe.
But the article does have points. When the hell are we going to see some standards in Linux to sort this out? Here's my list of needs/wants:
1) Standard control panel through EVERY distro & desktop environment. Gnome and KDE need to learn how to play nice. Obviously, this will involve some work at lower levels by others. We need everyone to create some STANDARDS here.
2) An installer. n00b's don't know what the hell a freakin' tar.gz file is and once they do figure it out, they don't know to where they should extract it. If Linux had a standardized software installer (complete with a dedicated file extension that could be "picked up" from a browser click), we'd see a huge Linux section on download.com. Yes - I realize that there are some nice things out there but we need a STANDARD to which every desktop distro can adhere (or else they don't get that fluffy "Desktop Linux Compliant" sticker that the industry also needs to invent).
3) Rules for software companies. Right now, there's no problems with this as there are with Windows because Linux hasn't become mainstream. What am I talking about? Software installs run amok. I hate to see Windows programs putting shortcuts *everywhere* - quick launch, desktop, taskbar, programs menu (and sometimes right even off of the top of the start menu). Some of them even install their own "tool bars". WTF? If Linux doesn't fix this NOW, before it becomes desktop mainstream, we're gonna have to live with it forever. We don't need uninstall icons right off of the program menu if there's another way to do it in the control panel. FORCE companies to put software installs in ONE LOCATION. Put it off of root? Sure, why not? Nobody's stopping me.
Forever.
Hell... its Friday so I'm gonna go now. I really wish there were a place to submit all these suggestions that I've got.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
Perhaps I am a complete and utter idiot. Which is entirely possible. Does anyone see the option on the web site to include Suse in place of WinXP? I can't find it anywhere. I wanted to customize a system to see what it would cost. Possibly even consider buying one 1) because my Compaq 1800t is starting to show it's age, and 2) to help show that there IS a market out there for Linux desktops/laptops.
When it comes to replacing my laptop, an HP would not have been my first choice, but if I can get it WITHOUT paying the MSFT tax, that's a HUGE plus for them. (for those who may point out HP/Compaq are the same, yes, but I bought my laptop shortly BEFORE the merger was announced).
I think he's refering to tarballs...which can be daunting if you don't know what you're doing. Once you get the hang of it, it's actually kinda fun.
Haec merda tauri est. Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
quote "For the record, Linux doesn't support Intel's wireless chip. H-P's WiFi modules work just fine."
Why is this? Intels fault, or what? Driver issue, voodoo, or like my dad was fond of saying (lack of ) F.M.?, last letter means "magic"
Someone must of used this HP laptop to hit the monkey on that annoying web popup ad. Don't believe the hype, hitting the monkey doesn't make you a winner.
The way I look at it, I can put my linux on my laptop myself. And I would too, 'cause I like Mandrake better than SuSE. And if I wanted Windows, I've a few licenses already, so I wouldn't want to pay for 'nother one:-). But hey: isn't this a great way to avoid paying the Microsoft Tax?! I mean, noone would sell a laptop to you with no operating system. At least if you get is with SuSE, even if you are going to replace it, you are not paying for the useless system that you will replace anyways, right>?
There has been a good SuSE (actually in this case Java Desktop System) Linux business laptop that "just works" out for 9 months now. The Tadpole Talin 15". The also now have the 12 inch screen model available.
... but then again HP's brandname hasn't been that great for awhile now anyway.
... just pointing out some other alternatives.
Not as big a brand name as HP
The Tadpole machines may be more expensive (no way for me to know, I got my Talin 15 as a demo box and their website doesn't say) so I'm not saying you should definitely get this one over the HP box if that is a concern
Things in this respect are definitely improving.
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
hibernation on my toshiba tecra 8100 with kernel 2.6.8.1 works perfectly, with latest kernel patches. I use debian so a line in /etc/apt/sources.list :
./
/sbin/hibernate' to "sleep" button in my session manager. I also had set up sleepd to hibernate when battery drops to 5% (which is usually 2 hours).
deb http://cp.yi.org/apt/hibernate
makes sure I have latest hibernate scripts.
I just assigned 'sudo
And, yes - there is a glitch - if I hibernate with blender or glxgears running, then after restore the 3d acceleration gets screwed up, and sooner or later I want to restart Xserver anyway (graphic card is s3 savage).
#
#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
#
When I install Linux on my personal laptops I usually have to buy software to watch a movie.
What? MPlayer and/or Ogle aren't good enough for you? What are you buying? Use MPlayer and donote to them. They were looking for a hard drive the other day I think.
"Usually I download DeCSS from one of the available offshore repositories. Yeah, I know it's illegal, but who reads MSNBC anyway?"
-dameron
Same big disappointment I found when I learned Dell was supposed to be working with Linux.
r od uctLineId=430&FamilyId=1776&jumpid=re_R2515_store/ smProdCat/PSG/notebooks/HP_nx5000_notebook
When I click Customize, the stupid site did NOT give me the option of changing the Operating System. It's hardcoded as Windows XP (here was the first clue: it's an ASP page....
It's possible that I may have looked in the wrong place.
http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/ctoBases.asp?P
Anyone else have any luck actually trying to order this thing?
We must drive a sword through any hypothesis that is not strictly necessary.
But, i miss the "Buy Now" button on that page :)
Rather evil of HP to stack it up against the WinXP version which has a $265 rebate (I wonder if that's coming from Microsoft's slush fund):
d uctLineId=435&FamilyId=1593&jumpid=re_store/smProd Cat/PSG/promo/notebooks/nx5000/$265InstantSavings
Special offers: $265 instant savings on this nx5000. Offer ends 8/31
http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/ctoBases.asp?Pro
Nobody is buying Apple hardware plus {Net/Open/Free}BSD, they're buying an Apple laptop running Apple's OS X. Imho this description is rather a leap from the reality of Apple using a BSD-derived core "deep down in the technicals".
it was a complete troll. :-)
Here's a downside, if it really is so easy, thousands of middle-aged executives will feel rebellious and want to spite Gates by using one of these. The false appeal here is that they would be diving into a Linux laptop without knowledge of linux, bash, using source code etc. While much of that knowledge is not necessary for business applications, I think eery Linux user shoud have some scripting capabilities to make full use of their OS. From my own experience in a law firm, everyonewants a diferent setting, color, and have different needs. Well, those needs can be met with Linux diveristy, but the burden falls oon the experts to exhaustingly devote man-hours to explaining the differences and how to change things. I love *nix systems, (as I write this from office on Windows) but is the average consumer ready? After all, we now have rear-view cameras and auto parking systems for idiot drivers...
[Please sign here]
HP is intentionally targetting the enterprise market with this laptop and have stated this multiple times in the past.
Cnet even has a video where an HP representative tells us that HP is targetting enterprises and that they're doing this more as a trial run to work out kinks and see what improvements users request before they put more resources into this segment.
"I filter at +6, and have yet to miss out on an important comment." (#822545)
The big money doesn't lie in the short term; it lies in the long term. With a free OS you are no longer subject to monopolized prices. Not to mention all of the free software. Openoffice is "big money" savings too. Yes, it runs on Windows, but Windows isn't (legally) free. If you can run software that is free on an OS that's free, that's great isn't it?
if this thing has any binary-only drivers, or if the *whole distribution* is GPLd. If there's binaries, and I can't use them in Debian, what's the point? I'd rather just check the Debian hardware compatability list and build or buy a model with full support.
Care to comment, Bruce Perens? Do you still work for HP?
std::disclaimer<std::legalese> sig=new std::disclaimer; sig->dump(); delete sig;
I went to HP's website and configured one, and compared to a similarly configured Powerbook at Apple's site, and the HP comes out a lot cheaper, with a similar weight, and a higher resolution display, so it looks like a good choice for a non-Windows laptop, if the keyboard doesn't suck.
So far, the only good keyboard I've found is on ThinkPads. (No Apple dealer within 30 miles of where I live, so I haven't been able to check out Powerbook keyboards yet).
I find this as a great news for the linux community. To have a major company take the steps required to make a laptop work with linux isn't an easy task.
However, now that HP has taken the first step, how about supporting the other laptop models that they sell. I have gentoo linux on an HP zt3000, and while 99% of the system works (WiFi, Ati Radeon, WXGA, IrDA, etc), there's still that 1% that needs HP support, like a driver for the SD media slot (although there's some work by some people to make this work).
I think HP is doing this as an experiment, to see how will the community react, how will customers use their laptop and how much tech-support issues will they have to solve. I wish them luck and hope they get behind this fulltime.
Signatures are supposed to be funny?
Even for Linux enthusiasts who coundn't really care less about the mainstream, this OS preloading is a huge win. Talk about an incentive to open specs and write Linux drivers... imagine HP saying, "You know, Broadcom, we'd really like to use your chipset in our new model laptops, but it's cheaper for us to just buy Intersil than to try to make Linux work with your stuff." That's enough to make any hardware manufacturer reevaluate their attitudes toward Linux support.
I've got gentoo on my Fujitsu Lifebook and suspend-to-ram has always worked.
Maybe I enabled something in the kernel, but 'apm -s' always does the trick for me.
It's also not at all flakey. On average i suspend the machine twice a day and it's never failed to come back up - except when the battery has run out. I've hit up times of a month or so, and usually break it when i need windows for something.
HP have seemingly buried the SuSE Linux option, I remember Dell doing something similar and then saying Linux never sold much.
Well luckily a feedback Window appeared, I left them feedback all right.
StarTux
Do you notice anything in common?
Perhaps Microsoft is making some deals under the table to prevent Linux from getting into the laptop market.
Effusive encouragement for higher moderation of parent posts manipulates a greater sense of value for the topic or viewpoint as well as improves the asserter's charisma, while laying a foundation for valuing further clarification.
'Lo! Further expository complementing the just garnered charismatic appearance rewards the child post itself with higher moderation!
I'm here to troll using real ammo. The mods bumped up nothing but a "me too" post, higher than the parent, and all it was doing was echoing a sentiment that misses the real issue at hand (and using a ridiculously incompatible metaphor). I've shrugged off this annoying behavior before, but hadn't thought about it in detail until now. Now I realize it's a kind of gripey, ignorant karma whoring. Ugly, ugly, ugly.
The point is that Linux has hit a fucking pivotal milestone. Get it? This hasn't happened before? It's a real change (hard to perceive for its incrementalness)? It's been long coming? It makes more concrete all the predictions of a radically different future?
Look back in five years at the curve of Linux desktop adoption and note the inflection in late 2004. Traction, baby. Get well soon.
"...People don't buy Macs because they don't want a Windows machine..."
Not true. I bought a PowerBook precisely because I didn't want a to support Windblows.
I can run Photoshop and MS Office on my iBook without any gimmicks or compromises like I would need to run them on a Linux laptop.
I wouldn't call CodeWeavers Wine a gimmick or a compromise. And at this point OS X happens to owe a lot itself to open source.
I think the significance here is that the little guy, an operating system 'cobbled together' by enthusiasts and idealists is starting to approach a state of usefulness only believed to be accomplishable by corporations. And of course, its free and strangely idealistic. Thats why its news.
Quack, quack.
You're comparing an HP made laptop with SUSE to Apple with the WAAAY more elegant OS X?
The day that happens is the day I switch to Linux. Get coding...
GNOME and KDE are a bad kludge compared to Aqua, or WPS or even WindowsXP explorer desktop.
See! Once again MSNBC (owned part by Microsoft...errr....sorry, M$) is biased against anything but Windows! Next those biased jerks will report that Gmail kicks Hotmail's rear.
You want to know who isn't running Firefox 2.x? They spell it "definately" and "rediculous".
Yes, what temperature is it outside now? Did you say 20 below zero degrees? OK, just checking...^_^
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Why would anyone hyphenate HP? It's always been HP. There's no hyphen there! I think M$ did this for some sinister reason, like screwing up search results. Hmm, I guess HP is the photo studio that took the picture. Are they the one's preinstalling linux on H-P's laptops?
Oh shit! I forgot to click "Post Anonymously"...
With the nx5000, you need to change the access point and WEP settings separately for each location.
It's been a while since I've run Linux on a laptop--it was, uh, interesting--but surely they can do better than the client mentioned in the article?
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
This MAY be great news, but it feels more like a publicity stunt... I'm willing and ready to purchase one and not go through all the hoops of converting a windows box.... Just try and go to the HP site and in a straightforward way navigate to the laptop with linux. What a pain! And, at least in my case, when you finally find the model, and click through to "customize", you'll NOT find linux listed there as an option for OS anymore. Go figure.
Of course, ymmv.... I'm sure someone will try and find linux and claim it is there and easy to find. But, I navigated, and drilled down about four or five different ways, and never really ended up with an option I was looking for. (This is about two or three times more than I normally afford a web site when looking for something -- before moving on to some easier to use business selling the same item.)
Additional disclaimer: it may not be only "hiding" linux -- I've shopped the HP web site before and had similar frustrating experience just trying to find a normal laptop or desktop with the configuration I wanted. But, finding the linux configuration was well nigh impossible.
Wait--what was the headline, again?
The main complaint the article highlighted was with changing between network connections, something that both Novell and Red Hat have been working on recently. If you follow Planet Gnome at at, you'd see that both companies have just released glimpses of their upcoming programs which address this very real annoyance with Linux on laptops.
The other complaint they had was with installing new applications, which shouldn't be a big deal with Red Carpet or Yum (especially if Red Hat/Fedora ever ships with a nice GUI front-end to that). Desktop Linux is rolling along rather nicely, good to see.
501 Not Implemented
> "MSNBC is currently running a story...
Like I'm gonna be stupid enough to waste my time reading a story that is run by Microsoft. Microsoft is known to lie and deceive anyone they can, and at any time, to achieve their immoral goals.
Give me a break. Sheesh!
http://www.smcc.demon.nl/webcam/
You guys are the first to foam at the mouth with anger whenever Microsoft does anything to ignore standards, like all of their "innovative" IE additions.
Or am I just imagining all this noise calling for IE to comply to standards?
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
Did MSNBC get hacked?
.
I ask, because quite frankly this columnist has the English skills of an average hacker. Run on sentances, general bad grammar, starting paragraphs with the words "but", or "then." While I honestly don't think it was hacked, what is going on? I'm no English major, but this article is pretty bad. Especially at the professional level. Is this just the sad state of journalism on MSNBC?
Mod me offtopic if you feel you must. .
-> Fritz
Spooooon!!!!!
Let's just hope nobody tells my wlan nic, otherwise I'll have to resort to fast ethernet.
I am currently at the kde conference in Ludwigsburg, Germany and working on one of these NX5000 notebooks. Hewlett-Packard was nice enough to sell them for about 580 EUR, which is about 700 USD, to kde developers.
However, our laptop models included the intel wireless 2200BG card, otherwise known as the dreaded centrino card. But what surprise, the driver from SourceForge works. Sometimes a bit flakey though, but it works...
Otherwise I am quite happy with the NX5000. The thing looks quite stable, has mostly supported hardware and sports a pair of superb speakers.
All in all, quite a nifty device for a very reasonable price.
Perhaps a quote from Chris Rock is in order:
Niggers always want credit for some shit they're supposed to do. They'll brag about stuff a normal man just does. They'll say something like, "Yeah, well I take care of my kids." You're supposed to, you dumb motherfucker. "I ain't never been to jail." Whaddya want? A cookie? You're not supposed to go to jail, you low-expectation-having motherfucker!
dell ships their first laptop with FreeBSD and Gnome preinstalled.
1) they give you a run-around trying to find it. They actually list quite a few laptops that run with linux but they don't currently sell any of them, and the one that is reviewed in the msnbc article isn't on the list (yet?).
2) Unless you're looking through business computers, you don't even see the linux option.
3) It costs $1200 and only has 1.2 ghz **Celeron**. Come on, who are they kidding?
4) They don't even give you the option for the OS if you select "Configure and Buy" (the only way to purchase it online), they lock you in to XP. What a bunch of bogus crap. You probably have to call if you actually want it.
Until the day comes when you can go into any big name brand computer sales website and choose your version of Linux OR Windows, you don't have to worry about just anybody buying this HP "Linux" laptop. Too much hassel. That's probably why you don't see M$ complaining.
Does anyone know what tool is used on this to configure the wireless card?
I'm pulling my hair out trying to get my wireless working with WEP between ifplugd and waproamd.
I think MS marketing goons h^h^h^h^h er... partners got to HP not too long after the story broke.
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
The comparison is flawed.
Apple does not provide "just" BSD. They have heavily customized (in fact forked) BSD and build that wonderful GUI, installation, configuration, ...etc. on top of it. Third party ISVs know that they have to deal with only a finite set of variables on the OS. Mac OS X is not available on any other hardware architecture than what Apple makes. They have a limited set of supported peripherals, ...etc. This gives the users much fewer surprises from incompatibilities and such.
On the other hand, HP just makes the hardware. There are endless aftermarket peripherals available for it (granted much less than a desktop). They do not have their own fork of SuSE, nor any special GUI on top of it. Hence, one can get SuSE from anywhere, and run it on any hardware, and it would not be much different from HP's offering (apart from being pre-installed, usable by the masses, and perhaps certain features configured specifically for their hardware).
Apple is playing at a different level than HP.
Don't get me wrong: I love Linux and has been runnig it myself for years. But this comparison is Apples to HPs.
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.
I've been thinking about getting a laptop for a few months now. Doing some research and such, and I *really* DO NOT want to *uck around getting linux installed where everything is working correctly. (almost impossible on most laptops these days) I just shot over to HP's site and my configuration would run $2020.00. I'm also not a big SuSE fan, prefering Debian.
Note to all the bashers here, I admin various Linux servers all the time, and have a few at home, so bite me. My idea of a laptop is to kick back upstairs or down in the computer room without any wires, watch a movie, burn a dvd/cdr, listen to tunes and browser the internet, without all the configuration bs.
So I've actually been looking into a Mac, pretty much everything I need, plus the kids and wife will be able to use it easier than the two linux boxes running debian and windowmaker. That along with the fact that the only version of Windows I have here is 98 SE, which doesn't work with a Ipod, which the kids (ok... me to) would like, and I'll be damned before I give Bill any money for XP.
Life was hell, then I discovered Linux...
You would think that they would be a Microsoft shill given the fact that it's *MS*NBC, but most of the time I hear the exact opposite kind of talk out of them. They seem to be frank about MS product flaws, and willing to praise praiseworthy competitors.
Do they just happen to NOT have their heads up their asses, or is there a more cynical explanation?
What about the Linux Filesystem Hierarchy as documented at tldp.org?
Have we got dueling standards going on here?
My other car is a 1984 Nark Avenger.
The software installation FUD is one I've seen before. The Microsoft perspective is that people will have to buy programs to do things and make them work. They spin this endless headache as a convenience by pointing to the thousands of dinky boxed programs that litter computer stores and saying, "Look at all of this." Free software that does the same thing and installs from your chosen distribution is almost always superior and takes much less effort. Talk about permissions and locations is a throwback to proprietary Unix, and non free software like movie players which are just as big a pain in Winblows.
His swipe at wifi, by mentioning that free software has problems with WEP and other nasty add-ons to 802.11, is in the same vein. Tell me WEP does anything useful for you and I'll laugh. Of course free software does not work with that garbage. Needing to remember "locations" for "logging on" to various wifi locations is an aggravation not an advantage to winblows.
The worst thing the author is doing here is leading people into non free addons to Linux. The user is much better off with all free drivers and software. Recommending non free junk is very clever because it invites people to point out downsides that sound much like the Winblows nighmare.
The user is better off with Linux than Winblows on this thousand dollar laptop. Me? I'll stick to the $175 P2 thinkpad and Debian I picked up last month. The few joys I miss from not being able to play DVDs and the slight trouble of setting up sound is more than made up for by the low price of the hardware, the better use of that hardware to get what I actually want done and the much lower headache factor I'll face from not getting 0wned.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
We can stop baching MSNBC every time they run a storey that can in some way be construed as negative towards FOSS?
This "Believe every word when they say good and trash them when they say bad" dichodomy is getting insanely tiring.
I use mplayer or xine+libdecss to play encripted dvds under Suse 9.0/9.1. They are both OK; myself I prefer xine. Kafeine uses libxine,if libdecss is installed, it also plays encripted dvds. A fourth choice is ogle. You DONT NEED proprietary software!
You can download the source code of libdecss from many places, for example from www.videolan.org. Compile it and you are all set! Under linux you can play any dvds, it does not matter if they are for Region 1, 2, 3,4,5 they just work!
From the article: " I'd like to especially commend Hewlett-Packard for including LinDVD playback software with this machine. It, too, works right out of the box. When I install Linux on my personal laptops I usually have to buy software to watch a movie."
Ok i thought he was going to say, isnt this a good thing for linux, and a necesity for the seller to include a "legal" way of playing dvds.
But then he says he has to buy software with other linux distros. WTF?
Does this guy really use linux???
Apt-get install libcss.
I am sooooo pissed after reading that HP has such a huge success with it's Linux Laptop.
That's not because I'm a Windows nut or I don't like HP or stuff, it's because I own a HP Laptop (pavilion ze4360) that is simply not usable under Linux! And I'm not talking about any "nice to have" features like suspend-to-disk or whatever, but about 20min uptime when running on battery.
They apparently f*cked up the ACPI implementation in the BIOS really bad, so under Linux speedstepping is unsupported. No matter what I did and tried, I had a Laptop that was running at a constant ~1800MHz. Of course I can't expect any help from HP support since the guys answering my inquiries don't quite understand the problem ("But if you use that and that setting in Windows XP your battery _does_ last longer").
How come HP produces a wonderful Linux Laptop and at the same time makes another one completely unusable for people who want to run Linux?
Do people write Windows OS, Excel SS, Netscape WB, perl PL, Apache WS, slashdot BS?
At the bottom of the
The post you responded to mentioned another laptop where one has to manually configure the hibernate function. The post was informative, because it described in detail how to do it. Now, pay attention, here's the one point which you utterly missed:
This is what makes Open Source Software so great
If the hibernate or any other function isn't working correctly in a commercial, closed source, software computer, what do you do? (1) hire a consultant, (2) call 1-800-EAT-SHIT, (3) sit down in a corner and cry? With FOSS, you get other alternatives: (1) Google the error, (2) ask the right on-line forum, (3) read Slashdot. I saved the text of the post you commented to, in my tips.txt file, because even if I don't have a need to configure a hibernate function right now, that's a very informative post. I might need to use exactly those steps or some variation of them in the future.
However, contrary to what FOSS detractor FUD preaches, normal users do not need to perform all those tricky little steps for every small configuration detail. The article itself had some subtle misinformation, giving the impression that there isn't any good package installation system in Linux.
The truth is, installing and configuring most software in Linux is simpler and easier than in MS-Windows these days. Using synaptic to install a package or even typing "apt-get install something" in the console is much easier than navigating through a maze of windows, clicking on all those buttons, accepting license agreements, filling in all your life's details in the on-line registration form, etc, etc... Then in the end, where the fsck did the files go? Are they under C:\Program Files, or in C:\My Documents? Or maybe in C:\Windows\System? And, God forbid you having any non-English character in your file names, because then you have to configure the right Code Page! And don't forget to update your anti-virus, because your newly installed software requires the latest anti-virus system to work reliably.
A positive example of good moderation in Slashdot, I was just browsing the story and found that post, correctly modded to +5, Informative.
So, where's the big money savings by going to linux?
:-)
Free Software (eg. GNU) has nothing to do with price. The big freedom using Linux is that you can get all the sourcecode to the OS, all the applications and drivers and fix what doesn't work yourself, or extend it to your hearts content. Then you can release it to the world, and make everybody else's Linux-experience a little better.
Oooh, the fuzzies are what makes Linux worth it!
The argument that Windows applications are expensive is BS. You can most software for free (as in beer), but you're stuck with the bugs and features. Linux gives you more Freedom, for the Source is open.
Btw, that $50 XP license is an OEM-license, which restricts it to only that hardware..
... where do I buy the nx5000/Linux combination in Europe??? Not even their own website contains such a deal!
... will happen when pigs fly.
Apple might be more open for someone bringing up the idea, though, and Fraunhofer is probably happy to license to anyone.
...and install Windows on it. That'll show em! :)