Ten years after TLO the Supremes ruled that public school officials act in loco parentis "for many purposes" and made a distinction between TLO and search/seizure cases. From Veronia vs Wayne:
In T. L. O. we rejected the notion that public schools, like private schools, exercise only parental power over their students, which of course is not subject to constitutional constraints. T. L. O., 469 U. S., at 336. Such a view of things, we said, "is not entirely `consonant with compulsory education laws,' " ibid. (quoting Ingraham v. Wright, 430 U.S. 651, 662 (1977)), and is inconsistent with our prior decisions treating school officials as state actors for purposes of the Due Process and Free Speech Clauses, T. L. O., supra, at 336. But while denying that the State's power over schoolchildren is formally no more than the delegated power of their parents, T. L. O. did not deny, but indeed emphasized, that the nature of that power is custodial and tutelary, permitting a degree of supervision and control that could not be exercised over free adults. "[A] proper educational environment requires close supervision of schoolchildren, as well as the enforcement of rules against conduct that would be perfectly permissible if undertaken by an adult." 469 U. S., at 339. While we do not, of course, suggest that public schools as a general matter have such a degree of control over children as to give rise to a constitutional "duty to protect," see DeShaney v. Winnebago County Dept. of Social Servs., 489 U.S. 189, 200 (1989), we have acknowledged that for many purposes "school authorities ac[t] in loco parentis," Bethel School Dist. No. 403 v. Fraser, 478 U.S. 675, 684 (1986), with the power and indeed the duty to "inculcate the habits and manners of civility," id., at 681 (internal quotation marks omitted). Thus, while children assuredly do not "shed their constitutional rights . . . at the schoolhouse gate," Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School Dist., 393 U.S. 503, 506 (1969), the nature of those rights is what is appropriate for children in school.
Yeah, the students may feel there's a conspiracy, but they could make a good exercise of researching and discussing the these kinds of cases. Many fourth and fourteenth amendment rights that adults enjoy are not extended to school children. The Supremes have already ruled against the ACLU and others many times in such cases. The schools are held to a lesser standard because of their custodial responsibility for students.
ACLU? Children don't have the same rights that adult citizens do. Random searches occur in many SoCal schools every day. Your locker can be searched, your backpack searched, your person sniffed by an intimidating German shepherd, school put into lockdown for hours so that children must relive themselves over a trashcan in front of their peers etc... any time the powers that be deem it's necessary for their health and welfare. The school effectively gains the same control (as well as responsiblity for safekeeping) that parents exercise over children.
Well I didn't say I was spending money to get them, although many people do. And I'm not an internet millionaire (I had options at several companies, only one of which made even a cent). But, I've saved up a couple grand for vacation before and figured I could spend it on airfare and hotel for a few days in Hawaii, or drive to Vegas and see if I could rub it together and make it multiply;)
Heck, I've stayed at total dives. First person who replies with the correct location of the Ogden House gets a prize! Ah forget the prize, the net makes it too easy. Lately I stay at the cheapest place that has high speed connectivity in case I get paged to fix something. But if I win big or lose big I often end up with a free room at a nice strip hotel.
The reason I know about $100 bets is that occasionally I'll run up a few hundred bucks winnings playing $5/hand, move up to $25/hand, and if it's running good I'll press it up. But I'm not a Big Baller. Winning like that at 21 is definitely the exception, not the rule. Last trip (CES convention in January) I made $2500 my first night playing a $5 table at the Orleans. I started at $5 a hand but was up to $100-200 a hand before I lost a few hands in a row. Sometimes it just runs good. I gave $1000 back over the next two days but still paid for dinners at Morton's, limos everywhere, etc with some left over. But I had my comps before I gave that back, so I didn't really spend it to get the comps. They are just a bonus.
The funny thing is that I only played 21 because my brother wanted company. You should only play against the casino for entertainment. Their advantage is too large. My game is Hold'em. Comps aren't that great for hold'em as the house is only getting you for the rake (the percentage they take out of every pot). I like my odds against other tourists better than the odds the house gives me.
Umm, that might be a good theory for the future of RFID, but that's not how comps work right now playing blackjack in Vegas in my experience.
I get comped for averaging a $100 bet over the course of an hour, even if it is the first visit. If you hand them an ID and tell them to rate you that's enough for them to consider you a "viable repeat." If I drop to $25 per bet it takes four hours. Winning or losing, first visit or no, I can always get comps in this manner.
The size and manner of comps may vary based on the factors you've cited, I don't know for certain. But I know I have received a lot of comped meals and rooms just by averaging a certain size bet.
Millions have lost their butt at the blackjack table, but the casinos only increase their edge adding yet more decks and decreasing penetration as time goes by. You get comped whether you win or lose, as long as you average a certain amount of play. What kind of actions do you think they will take to make players happier?
And, how do they tie these chips to personally identifiable information? They already have some tracking ability but RFID in chips won't improve it. How will they track you off the floor? The scanners have limited range.
I still think the motivation for this is about preventing fraud and theft from within.
Mansfield's a great place to be from. "From" as in "I'm not there any more."
Other things Mansfield is nationally (un)known for:
- The reformatory facade being used in Shawshank Redemption. My uncle rented them some of the period cars.
- Hugh Douglas of the Eagles
- Signal 30, a b&w shock driver's ed film shown to high schoolers around the country. Imagine my surprise sitting in an LA suburb high school after moving from podunk and hearing "Signal 30 at Trimble and West 4th Street!"
That could have been me. My dad used to let me drive him everywhere at the age of 13. If we got stopped by a cop, chances are he was related or knew our family well. We couldn't go down a street without waving to someone.
My whole family worked at Westinghouse, the GM (Fisher) body plant in Ontario, or owned businesses there. Most of us made it out alive;)
I thought I said that... "if you're a windows person" so thanks for agreeing;)
My mom can barely check mail but if you have a question on Russian history...
As for cygwin, while certainly not mom friendly I hardly would call it a sledgehammer. For less than 200 MB you get so much functionality I would never setup a windows box without it. Heck, it's even on mom's box so I can do vnc over ssh to walk her through something when she panics and can't find her icons;)
Agreed wired works beter. OP doesn't want to wire though. I lived in a rental home for awhile and couldn't wire. But that experience convinced me to not mess with fish-taping and wiring my 80's built home that I bought last year.
What I wanted: Access to my music library from any room with a stereo. Collection is on ipod and mirrored on a samba share.
What I didn't need: sync/push capability.
What I already had: 54g coverage throughout the property, old win and lin laptops, and stereo systems with rca inputs in every room (yes, I have a lot of old stereo equipment and pcs).
So I just hung a mini-to-rca plug on the stereos. The laptops do fine using any old player and mapping the drive and playing them directly from there.
This isn't optimal but it does what I wanted. I can push to the pcs in any room if I desire, they all have vnc, sshd, etc. I haven't saturated my network yet;)
"Judge Brooke Wells granted SCO a partial review of IBM's programing code and said that SCO could be given complete access in the future if IBM withholds any further data."
No it's not close to the beginning or end of the line. In situations we might see this little back and forth quite a few times.
Embryonic stem cell research is not being funded on the federal level. It's not banned at all.
On the first sentence you're wrong: embryonic stem cell research is being funded on the federal level. However, that federal funding has recently been restricted to certain existing lines. Our current President spent much time on his ranch in Crawford sawing logs and driving his pickup to arrive at the ethical decision.
On the second sentence you're correct: It's not banned, but some contend that given the restriction there is an effective ban because without federal funding this research is extremely limited. See other/. threads for a more comprehensive debate.
As for the reference to adult stem cell research followed by the propaganda reference... both types of research are extremely important. The medical research I have read contends that embryonic stem cells are much more versatile and have much greater potential than adult stem cells because they can develop into almost any type of cell and continue to divide in culture.
I mull over these things while carrying my father to bed or the shitter as he's incapacitated by Parkinson's and his wonderful HMO doctors love to try out whatever prescription the pharma companies have decided they should push this month without really having a clue and without any effect. They don't think he's *bad* enough for a surgical consult. It's the same HMO that nearly killed me when they misdiagnosed gall stones for two years as an ulcer. But, hey, it's our system and we should be damn proud of it. Anyone tells you it's not the bomb-diggity is spewing propaganda.
Not exactly. I'm just trying to put myself in Sun's shoes and figure out where I might open a new market for myself today and pick up some customers for support and other services. I'm guessing they believe that if you look at Solaris vs Linux today Solaris is either comparable or superior. The product is more than just a free OS/kernel. They figure they can compete with those other players right now for the service and support dollars. And having the foot in the door makes the upsell easier if they can make the customer believe they need bigger iron.
As for the future, you bring up a valid point, if the Linux/OSS platform (kernel/OS/apps) is far superior then Sun would have a hard time competing. I believe the OSS community capable of great things. OTOH, one should not forget that IBM and HP are also subject to huge shifts in philosophy. I don't give them or Sun any credit for taking a 5-10 year view and being able to stick to it. People change, strategies change. Look at all the things IBM has floundered on and then jettisoned in the past. I'm not making predictions, just saying I'm not too keen on predicting where they'll be with regard to this space that far out.
You can take a pessimistic view (for Sun that is) and figure you might be cannibalizing your base by giving customers more hardware flexibility. I mean, why upgrade to a Sun box when you can get performance out of HT x86 boxes? But I guess they figure getting some revenue from those customers is better than not getting any even if it means giving up some OS and hardware revenues that they wouldn't get anyway if they didn't try to compete.
My personal opinion on the Linux improvement angle is that an OSS platform may outstrip Solaris but not in any significant way for at least five years. But I think American publicly traded companies in general can't think beyond a few quarters anyway because of the pressures of the stock market.
Well we may not agree with Sun's math but they've certainly looked at the situation and decided that selling support to the number of new customers they expect to get will exceed the amount they will lost on the sales of the base OS.
To answer your questions:
1. It's going to let them compete in a market they don't compete in now, the one RedHat is in.
2. Yes, opening a new market when your current market(s) suck is usually in the shareholders' best interest. Even if you have to give up some revenues in the short run. Selling OS licenses in a small market certainly can be exceeded by selling support in a much larger market. If it works of course;)
3. In their view they have to develop new OS versions regardless to keep their current market customers happy. If this moves ends up in a net increase in revenue then they've made development cheaper when viewed as a percentage of revenue.
4. In this new market their name will give them an instant advantage.
It looks like from the press release that they are positioning themselves exactly where RedHat is. They figure they can get a chunk of that revenue. Why not? It's supported on inexpensive x86 hardware, it will run Linux binaries. They can pitch the same thing RH does to any company: x86 hardware support, free apps to run, free kernel/OS, support contracts.
Their size, longevity, etc give them instant credibility with RH customers. I mean, who is going to be around to support you if they have a few down quarters? People signing these checks have the "no one ever got fired buying Brand X" mentality.
Personally, I don't know. It depends if Sun is willing or able to compete in this market based on price of the support etc. But they must figure "get our foot in the door" and if the customer is successful and grows and can afford more, then they can step them up to bigger hardware. It does make sense if they can pull it off.
And even if they can't pull it off they're a public company. If the analysts *believe* they can pull it off the stock price will go up and hey, that's what a corporation like Sun really cares about. Not the reality, not the long-term, but the price of that stock tomorrow.
Well I hope you're right but isn't this a little over the top?
Why didn't "the people" install Mozilla a year ago and save themselves from popups all this time? Up until my client let me install Mozilla for browsing and mail they were getting their xp boxes infected more from mail than browsing.
Mozilla has been around longer and it hasn't saved the internet even though it includes a mail client that is safer than Express and a browser that's probably as safe as Firefox. It didn't save the internet but it has saved my client some hourly billings for me to clean up/reinstall their infected boxen.
Slashdot Mirror
someone will make John Aschcroft Attorney General
Yeah, the students may feel there's a conspiracy, but they could make a good exercise of researching and discussing the these kinds of cases. Many fourth and fourteenth amendment rights that adults enjoy are not extended to school children. The Supremes have already ruled against the ACLU and others many times in such cases. The schools are held to a lesser standard because of their custodial responsibility for students.
ACLU? Children don't have the same rights that adult citizens do. Random searches occur in many SoCal schools every day. Your locker can be searched, your backpack searched, your person sniffed by an intimidating German shepherd, school put into lockdown for hours so that children must relive themselves over a trashcan in front of their peers etc... any time the powers that be deem it's necessary for their health and welfare. The school effectively gains the same control (as well as responsiblity for safekeeping) that parents exercise over children.
But whom do I give my digit to if you alleviated them of their jobs? ;)
The RFID info will one day be used this way but right now it's about preventing dealers from paying their friends incorrectly.
Well I didn't say I was spending money to get them, although many people do. And I'm not an internet millionaire (I had options at several companies, only one of which made even a cent). But, I've saved up a couple grand for vacation before and figured I could spend it on airfare and hotel for a few days in Hawaii, or drive to Vegas and see if I could rub it together and make it multiply ;)
Heck, I've stayed at total dives. First person who replies with the correct location of the Ogden House gets a prize! Ah forget the prize, the net makes it too easy. Lately I stay at the cheapest place that has high speed connectivity in case I get paged to fix something. But if I win big or lose big I often end up with a free room at a nice strip hotel.
The reason I know about $100 bets is that occasionally I'll run up a few hundred bucks winnings playing $5/hand, move up to $25/hand, and if it's running good I'll press it up. But I'm not a Big Baller. Winning like that at 21 is definitely the exception, not the rule. Last trip (CES convention in January) I made $2500 my first night playing a $5 table at the Orleans. I started at $5 a hand but was up to $100-200 a hand before I lost a few hands in a row. Sometimes it just runs good. I gave $1000 back over the next two days but still paid for dinners at Morton's, limos everywhere, etc with some left over. But I had my comps before I gave that back, so I didn't really spend it to get the comps. They are just a bonus.
The funny thing is that I only played 21 because my brother wanted company. You should only play against the casino for entertainment. Their advantage is too large. My game is Hold'em. Comps aren't that great for hold'em as the house is only getting you for the rake (the percentage they take out of every pot). I like my odds against other tourists better than the odds the house gives me.
Umm, that might be a good theory for the future of RFID, but that's not how comps work right now playing blackjack in Vegas in my experience.
I get comped for averaging a $100 bet over the course of an hour, even if it is the first visit. If you hand them an ID and tell them to rate you that's enough for them to consider you a "viable repeat." If I drop to $25 per bet it takes four hours. Winning or losing, first visit or no, I can always get comps in this manner.
The size and manner of comps may vary based on the factors you've cited, I don't know for certain. But I know I have received a lot of comped meals and rooms just by averaging a certain size bet.
This is my Rifle, This is my Gun...:Gunlore in the Military
;)
Pedantic shmantic
Millions have lost their butt at the blackjack table, but the casinos only increase their edge adding yet more decks and decreasing penetration as time goes by. You get comped whether you win or lose, as long as you average a certain amount of play. What kind of actions do you think they will take to make players happier?
And, how do they tie these chips to personally identifiable information? They already have some tracking ability but RFID in chips won't improve it. How will they track you off the floor? The scanners have limited range.
I still think the motivation for this is about preventing fraud and theft from within.
Your rifle. Cause without Viagra your gun is useless.
"This is my rifle, this is my gun, this is for killing, this is for fun."
Mansfield's a great place to be from. "From" as in "I'm not there any more."
;)
Other things Mansfield is nationally (un)known for:
- The reformatory facade being used in Shawshank Redemption. My uncle rented them some of the period cars.
- Hugh Douglas of the Eagles
- Signal 30, a b&w shock driver's ed film shown to high schoolers around the country. Imagine my surprise sitting in an LA suburb high school after moving from podunk and hearing "Signal 30 at Trimble and West 4th Street!"
That could have been me. My dad used to let me drive him everywhere at the age of 13. If we got stopped by a cop, chances are he was related or knew our family well. We couldn't go down a street without waving to someone.
My whole family worked at Westinghouse, the GM (Fisher) body plant in Ontario, or owned businesses there. Most of us made it out alive
Dell shipments I received since the first all have this notation on the invoice:
"CA SHIPMENTS ST ENVIRO FEE UP TO $10 PER ITEM WILL BE ADDED TO ORDE"
I thought I said that... "if you're a windows person" so thanks for agreeing ;)
;)
My mom can barely check mail but if you have a question on Russian history...
As for cygwin, while certainly not mom friendly I hardly would call it a sledgehammer. For less than 200 MB you get so much functionality I would never setup a windows box without it. Heck, it's even on mom's box so I can do vnc over ssh to walk her through something when she panics and can't find her icons
Agreed wired works beter. OP doesn't want to wire though. I lived in a rental home for awhile and couldn't wire. But that experience convinced me to not mess with fish-taping and wiring my 80's built home that I bought last year.
;)
What I wanted: Access to my music library from any room with a stereo. Collection is on ipod and mirrored on a samba share.
What I didn't need: sync/push capability.
What I already had: 54g coverage throughout the property, old win and lin laptops, and stereo systems with rca inputs in every room (yes, I have a lot of old stereo equipment and pcs).
So I just hung a mini-to-rca plug on the stereos. The laptops do fine using any old player and mapping the drive and playing them directly from there.
This isn't optimal but it does what I wanted. I can push to the pcs in any room if I desire, they all have vnc, sshd, etc. I haven't saturated my network yet
But if you're more of a windows person SyncBack is probably much easier to deal with.
An analysis of Bill's stool on ratemypoo.com?
"Judge Brooke Wells granted SCO a partial review of IBM's programing code and said that SCO could be given complete access in the future if IBM withholds any further data."
No it's not close to the beginning or end of the line. In situations we might see this little back and forth quite a few times.
Darn tootin. Only smart people code COBOL
In
Every
Damn
Program
Honest, it's not my bag baby!
an Orgasmotron?
/.'ers especially could make use of that technology.
Any Dennis Miller Referentially-Challenged types please see http://imdb.com/title/tt0070707/.
Embryonic stem cell research is not being funded on the federal level. It's not banned at all.
/. threads for a more comprehensive debate.
On the first sentence you're wrong: embryonic stem cell research is being funded on the federal level. However, that federal funding has recently been restricted to certain existing lines. Our current President spent much time on his ranch in Crawford sawing logs and driving his pickup to arrive at the ethical decision.
On the second sentence you're correct: It's not banned, but some contend that given the restriction there is an effective ban because without federal funding this research is extremely limited. See other
As for the reference to adult stem cell research followed by the propaganda reference... both types of research are extremely important. The medical research I have read contends that embryonic stem cells are much more versatile and have much greater potential than adult stem cells because they can develop into almost any type of cell and continue to divide in culture.
I mull over these things while carrying my father to bed or the shitter as he's incapacitated by Parkinson's and his wonderful HMO doctors love to try out whatever prescription the pharma companies have decided they should push this month without really having a clue and without any effect. They don't think he's *bad* enough for a surgical consult. It's the same HMO that nearly killed me when they misdiagnosed gall stones for two years as an ulcer. But, hey, it's our system and we should be damn proud of it. Anyone tells you it's not the bomb-diggity is spewing propaganda.
Not exactly. I'm just trying to put myself in Sun's shoes and figure out where I might open a new market for myself today and pick up some customers for support and other services. I'm guessing they believe that if you look at Solaris vs Linux today Solaris is either comparable or superior. The product is more than just a free OS/kernel. They figure they can compete with those other players right now for the service and support dollars. And having the foot in the door makes the upsell easier if they can make the customer believe they need bigger iron.
As for the future, you bring up a valid point, if the Linux/OSS platform (kernel/OS/apps) is far superior then Sun would have a hard time competing. I believe the OSS community capable of great things. OTOH, one should not forget that IBM and HP are also subject to huge shifts in philosophy. I don't give them or Sun any credit for taking a 5-10 year view and being able to stick to it. People change, strategies change. Look at all the things IBM has floundered on and then jettisoned in the past. I'm not making predictions, just saying I'm not too keen on predicting where they'll be with regard to this space that far out.
You can take a pessimistic view (for Sun that is) and figure you might be cannibalizing your base by giving customers more hardware flexibility. I mean, why upgrade to a Sun box when you can get performance out of HT x86 boxes? But I guess they figure getting some revenue from those customers is better than not getting any even if it means giving up some OS and hardware revenues that they wouldn't get anyway if they didn't try to compete.
My personal opinion on the Linux improvement angle is that an OSS platform may outstrip Solaris but not in any significant way for at least five years. But I think American publicly traded companies in general can't think beyond a few quarters anyway because of the pressures of the stock market.
Well we may not agree with Sun's math but they've certainly looked at the situation and decided that selling support to the number of new customers they expect to get will exceed the amount they will lost on the sales of the base OS.
;)
To answer your questions:
1. It's going to let them compete in a market they don't compete in now, the one RedHat is in.
2. Yes, opening a new market when your current market(s) suck is usually in the shareholders' best interest. Even if you have to give up some revenues in the short run. Selling OS licenses in a small market certainly can be exceeded by selling support in a much larger market. If it works of course
3. In their view they have to develop new OS versions regardless to keep their current market customers happy. If this moves ends up in a net increase in revenue then they've made development cheaper when viewed as a percentage of revenue.
4. In this new market their name will give them an instant advantage.
It looks like from the press release that they are positioning themselves exactly where RedHat is. They figure they can get a chunk of that revenue. Why not? It's supported on inexpensive x86 hardware, it will run Linux binaries. They can pitch the same thing RH does to any company: x86 hardware support, free apps to run, free kernel/OS, support contracts.
Their size, longevity, etc give them instant credibility with RH customers. I mean, who is going to be around to support you if they have a few down quarters? People signing these checks have the "no one ever got fired buying Brand X" mentality.
Personally, I don't know. It depends if Sun is willing or able to compete in this market based on price of the support etc. But they must figure "get our foot in the door" and if the customer is successful and grows and can afford more, then they can step them up to bigger hardware. It does make sense if they can pull it off.
And even if they can't pull it off they're a public company. If the analysts *believe* they can pull it off the stock price will go up and hey, that's what a corporation like Sun really cares about. Not the reality, not the long-term, but the price of that stock tomorrow.
Funtional families are made up of gruntled members.
Well I hope you're right but isn't this a little over the top?
Why didn't "the people" install Mozilla a year ago and save themselves from popups all this time? Up until my client let me install Mozilla for browsing and mail they were getting their xp boxes infected more from mail than browsing.
Mozilla has been around longer and it hasn't saved the internet even though it includes a mail client that is safer than Express and a browser that's probably as safe as Firefox. It didn't save the internet but it has saved my client some hourly billings for me to clean up/reinstall their infected boxen.