China is stockpiling it to run diesel instead of coal plants, so as to clean up their air for the olympics.
... I'd be pretty surprised if you could just take an coal fired powerplant and just plug a diesel tanker into it.
If GPP said "China is stockpiling it to run diesel in their coal plants", you'd have him. But I'm pretty sure that he's just relaying speculation that they may be converting some of their power production into diesel plants instead of coal. You know - New construction.
Take the tin-foil off, you'll feel better.
I don't think I've ever seen that misused so badly... Little petty, don't you think?
It can also be done more cheaply with Xylene (paint thinner). I just love to see huge chunks of styrofoam melt into a goo!:D Plus if you're really out for a good time, the resulting goo should still be flammable...obviously there are safety and environmental issues there though.
Back in high school, we used to mix Styrofoam and gasoline. We'd hit the furniture store dumpster after closing on delivery-day and load the cars up with all the Styrofoam we could stuff in. Then go out to the desert, pour a couple of gallons of gas in a waste basket and start chucking in the Styrofoam. Pour our the resulting sludge and light. It burns hot and burns for a long time.
Very environmentally unfriendly and you're likely to inhale way too much vaporous gasoline, but good fun for juvenile fire-bugs.
Loved the movie, loved the portrayal of the Joker, just one question. Who is the next Batman Villian? Since Ledger presumably rendered the Joker unportrayable (literally, I can't imagine anyone being able to even come close), I imagine they'll use someone else from the Batman universe, but who? My guess is the Riddler.
The Riddler seems too silly a character for this universe. It doesn't mean they can't pull it off, but it would be tough.
Exactly. The quote you just paraphrased concerns a single issue, and you generalized it.
Now, I disagree with Moore on this topic. That would be true for other countries, but less Cuba. Cuba is being punished. I think Moore is guessing at a plausable but incorrect reason based on U.S. planning documents that have been released.
I said, "If I understood his statements correctly, part of the reason that the U.S. is cutting Cuba off is to keep the U.S. populace from learning how socialized health care turns Cuba into such a paradise and keeps us from demanding it." What did I generalize? I may have pressed it a little by implying that their health care system turned Cuba into a paradise, but I was trying to point out what a goofy assertion that was.
If you watched Sicko and came away with the idea that Moore believes the U.S. is limiting our access to learn how "good life is in Cuba", then you were listening with a predisposed concept of what was happening, and filled in the blanks of what is said with your own interpretation.
Actually, I was referring to a specific line toward the end of the movie. He first said that Cuban health care was superior to U.S. health care and then said something similar to "Perhaps part of the reason that the U.S. won't allow Americans to visit Cuba is so that they won't demand a similar system back home." I'm paraphrasing based on memory - There's no way I'm watching that garbage again to try to get the quote right.
I tried to go into it with an open mind. The problem was that I was hoping to learn something, but found that impossible because it was impossibly one-sided and made glaring omissions that made me question the legitimacy of the rest of his assertions.
What was Mr. Moore's explanation for the number of refugees willing to paddle all the way to Miami on a rubber tire? I have not watched the documentary, I really would like to know.
I did actually sit through that "documentary" and things like the tire paddlers were conveniently left out. As were the major problems with many socialized-medicine countries that he covered (long waits, sub-standard care, etc.)
Like I said, I really don't care to weigh in on which system is the best - Many people on both sides have both flowering examples and horror stories, but Sicko was a disgustingly biased load of crap that really went out of its way to support Moore's preconceived conclusion rather than provide any useful/accurate information.
I'm not trying to endorse either the Cuban lifestyle or Michael Moore here, but that is actually partially true. The Cuban healthcare system runs far more efficiently than the one in the US, at least as far as the numbers are concerned.
For example, the average life expectancy of a Cuban (77.23 years) is roughly on par with the average life expectancy of an American (78.1 years), but the Cuban government spends ~US$5/year/person on healthcare. In comparison, the amount spent in the US on healthcare (by individuals, government, businesses, etc..) is ~US$7200/year/person.
Given that they have embargoes on American medical technology, doctors, etc.. they must be doing something right.
Disclaimer: I'm from a country which has a nationally supported healthcare system alongside a private system, and they seem to work equally well together. I also don't understand why so many Americans hate Cuba so much..
Neither do I support the embargo. It was a bad idea that has demonstrated itself as a failure. And I'm not sure that (educated & intelligent) Americans really have a problem with Cuba (they're cool by me) - That doesn't necessarily include our legislators. But, my life expectancy would go up if I could afford neither steak nor beer. Instead, I'm sitting here well-fed, half-drunk, and on an uncensored internet connection (at least as uncensored as most of the world - and I have no objection to most of what people are being arrested for).
I'd still rather pay less for my medical insurance - Especially since the patents I'm paying for are being ignored on both my Canadian and Mexican borders. But socialism and capitalism are both nice ideas in theory. I just think that the US & Cuba are bad examples on either side. I'd love to find a country that's figured out how they should be balanced and needs a MSEE grad with PM experience that can look past a late-night semi-inebriated/. post...
Actually, Americans are still allowed in the Caribbeans. And they still visit. I think that GPP was bravely and insightfully pointing out that European tourists have some of the same hang-ups as American tourists. Although, they're generally less puritanical and tend to deny desires to do things like "keep the poor people at a safe distance".
Within a few years, either the Cuban government will lighten up, or the people will throw them out when they realize how much better their lives could be. People are only willing to put up with repressive regimes if they don't know there's anything better out there, which is why countries like Cuba, Iran and North Korea limit the amount of information about the rest of the world that their people can get their hands on.
Actually, according to a Mr. Moore documentary that I saw not too long ago, it's the U.S. government that's limiting our access to know how good life is in Cuba. If I understood his statements correctly, part of the reason that the U.S. is cutting Cuba off is to keep the U.S. populace from learning how socialized health care turns Cuba into such a paradise and keeps us from demanding it.
Not trying to weigh in on socialized heath care, just trying to troll based on a complete BS Moore line implying that the US is trying to prevent it's citizens from learning about the beautiful life Cubans enjoy thanks to socialized health care. Cheers.
Thank you... That may be the most ironic (flag the def. of irony nazis) typo I've had. Especially since my post started with "I think you misspelled..."...
Damn you spell-checker that only knows the proper spelling of dictionary words and not what I meant to say!!!
But I agree - The embargo is idiotic. We (the U.S.) screwed up the same way in Iran. The people liked us shortly after the revolution and blue jeans and MTV could have really made for a good relationship, in my arm-chair general opinion. (Disclaimer - the notion that the general populace liked the U.S. comes from a single native Iranian who was teaching a Programming Patterns course that I attended, and I chose to believe him. Fell free to correct me.)
Cuba is similar - Give 'em YouTube, uncensored Google, porn, Wikipedia, streaming reality TV and show 'em the stuff that a lot of people in the world enjoy (for whatever reasons). It'll do a lot more good than what we've tried so far...
On a side note, if you're willing to drag a floaty toy to the beach and paddle your ass to Florida, I say we turn our heads and let you stay - You're obviously more dedicated to being an American than most of the folks that were born here.
Consider: 1% (or thereabouts) of the adult population of the US is in prison. Is this application of justice serving us?
If it keeps people with a history of burglary from robbing me? Yes. If it keeps the people with a history of murder from killing me? Yes. If it keeps the kids off my lawn? Well, kind-of.
OT - If it keeps otherwise law-abiding adults from smoking weed or people from using sex-toys in their own homes? Fuck no.
Hmm if I believe that it is stated in one of the fables of hackerdom that a hacker will be miserable and unproductive when forced to work 9 till 5 but will happily work from 12 till 2 AM. Perhaps forcing someone to do something they would gladly do of their own free will makes things worse for everyone.
Actually, I think your fable holds at least a little bit true, at least in my case. I work ~9-5 because it allows me to take care of myself and my family financially and because I believe in the work that I do. I worked my butt off in school to prepare myself for that.
Working on hacking systems, gaining unlawful access, collecting random accounts, etc? That was just juvenile fun that I got a great kick out of back in my youth - And it was all done mostly for free (my only benefit was free internet access through hacked accounts - that was all that my conscience would allow me to steal, although I had ample opportunity and admit to getting an ego-boost out of that fact - I was a just a talented juvenile delinquent). And, 12-2 AM were preferred hours for that kind of work. I stopped because I wanted to avoid jeopardizing future employment. But, despite being more satisfying on a number of levels, I would not say that my ~9-5 work now is ever as "enjoyable" as my history of 12-2 AM residence in hackerdom.
One of the biggest differences (that we're aware of) is signalling vs generative language. Human language builds on itself to expand itself in ways that we can understand new words based on their parts. For example, if I say the word "bullshitism" you kind of know what I'm talking about, even though I might have just made up the word now. We don't need to agree up front on this new word. The language is therefore generalisable.
I've never opened my eyes real wide, stared you down, dilated my pupils, and raised my fist in front of you before. But, if I did (I probably wouldn't - Despite looking a little intimidating, I'm a pretty laid back guy), you could probably interpret my message. No worries man, if we were having this conversation in a bar I'd buy you a drink right now - I just wanted something obvious and animalistic (my new word). It would have the same effect as if I'd said "I'm about to kick your ass" or if my cat had hissed and raised her paw with her claws out. If I (or my cat) had found a new way to relay that message, would it draw a line between instinctive behavior and genuine "communication".
The cats that live in my house respond when their names are called
... and do they meow to communicate amongst themselves or do they leave vocal noises for when they want to attract human attention?
Sometimes - There's a high pitched chirping/meow they use to indicate that they're tracking something and the others come to help/compete.
Mostly, though, they communicate through hissing (profanity?) and simulated violence (threats?). That's cats for you. I'd rather stick to dogs and rats. Much better pets.
Maybe you are not so much looking for a defition of "speaking" as much as what separates human language from other animal language.
You may be right. I'll let my definition of "speaking" stand, as I feel it's interesting and would love a good discussion on that point.
But, at the risk of trolling, what's the difference between human from animal language? I see no clear line. I've potty trained both humans and rats - I submit to you that they're both intelligent, just at different levels.
Even in the non-speaking animal world, communication occurs regularly.
I humbly request from the/. community a good definition of "speaking". My dog responds quite well when I speak commands and has a variety of barks/howls/whimpers. My 3-year old, although not speaking proper English, communicates just fine to levels that I'm only beginning to appreciate. My 1-year old only knows ~3 words, but several hand signs and multiple grunts/cries/etc. The cats that live in my house respond when their names are called and know to run when I holler at them - They also hiss when distressed or purr when pleased - I understand their meaning.
Where's the line? In order to communicate well enough for history to record it do you need a documented language? That seems unfair.
You missed a loophole - My personal bane. I get calls regularly with a recorded message asking me if I'd like to save money on my credit card bills - Caller ID blocked & no identification on the line. The only options are to press '1' to indicate interest or hang up. I've pressed '1' twice. The first time, I asked repeatedly who I was talking to. At first, he told me that "I work for Mastercard and Visa". I pressed on because that's obviously BS. He eventually told me that he "worked for 250 different banks". When I asked who actually signed his checks, he hung up on me. The second time I clicked through, I pretended to have significant credit card debt that I wanted to finance but acted skeptical because of the Caller ID block and eventually got to a supervisor. After the "Visa and Mastercard" and "250 different banks" responses, he told me that he worked for American General Finance.
Here's the rub, though. If they'd have called me, it would obviously be illegal. And whoever did call me was violating the Do Not Call rules. But by the time I got through to American General Finance, I had (by pressing '1') expressed an interest in doing business with them and they were kind enough to hang up on me when I made it clear that that was not the case. They won't tell me who they're contracting with making the illegal calls and frankly, I don't know how to find out.
Damn straight. As of next January, he'll have completed 4 years of service at the national level (with basically no experience internationally). 8 years at the state level (and as a state senator - good experience, but not not that impressive on the national stage). And from your own link which seems to debunk his 20 year claim:
To get to 20 years of experience, we still need eight years from Obama's career prior to holding public office. Obama graduated from Columbia University in 1983. He worked for a year as a financial analyst; in his memoir he said he spent his days behind a computer terminal, "checking the Reuters machine that blinked bright emerald messages across the globe" and feeling like "a spy behind enemy lines." He gave up that job to go into community organizing, work he felt was more important politically. He worked three years as a community organizer in Chicago before going to Harvard Law School. We won't count the junior-level business experience as working "on behalf of families who are having a hard time," but the community organizing work does seem to fit the bill. That brings his work experience to 15 years.
Did you read that article before you linked to it?
Slashdot Mirror
If GPP said "China is stockpiling it to run diesel in their coal plants", you'd have him. But I'm pretty sure that he's just relaying speculation that they may be converting some of their power production into diesel plants instead of coal. You know - New construction.
Take the tin-foil off, you'll feel better.
I don't think I've ever seen that misused so badly... Little petty, don't you think?
It can also be done more cheaply with Xylene (paint thinner). I just love to see huge chunks of styrofoam melt into a goo! :D Plus if you're really out for a good time, the resulting goo should still be flammable...obviously there are safety and environmental issues there though.
Back in high school, we used to mix Styrofoam and gasoline. We'd hit the furniture store dumpster after closing on delivery-day and load the cars up with all the Styrofoam we could stuff in. Then go out to the desert, pour a couple of gallons of gas in a waste basket and start chucking in the Styrofoam. Pour our the resulting sludge and light. It burns hot and burns for a long time.
Very environmentally unfriendly and you're likely to inhale way too much vaporous gasoline, but good fun for juvenile fire-bugs.
sqrt(-1) ohms
So... It's an inductor?
Loved the movie, loved the portrayal of the Joker, just one question. Who is the next Batman Villian? Since Ledger presumably rendered the Joker unportrayable (literally, I can't imagine anyone being able to even come close), I imagine they'll use someone else from the Batman universe, but who? My guess is the Riddler.
The Riddler seems too silly a character for this universe. It doesn't mean they can't pull it off, but it would be tough.
Catwoman? Bane?
Who or what is Batman?
I think you mean "Where is the Batman?"
He's at home - Washing his tights!
I wonder why people don't simply stick the monitor/touchscreen directly inside the desk?
Because after 40 hours/week, your neck and upper back are going to scream at you unless you're looking at the screen via a mirror.
Exactly. The quote you just paraphrased concerns a single issue, and you generalized it.
Now, I disagree with Moore on this topic. That would be true for other countries, but less Cuba. Cuba is being punished. I think Moore is guessing at a plausable but incorrect reason based on U.S. planning documents that have been released.
I said, "If I understood his statements correctly, part of the reason that the U.S. is cutting Cuba off is to keep the U.S. populace from learning how socialized health care turns Cuba into such a paradise and keeps us from demanding it." What did I generalize? I may have pressed it a little by implying that their health care system turned Cuba into a paradise, but I was trying to point out what a goofy assertion that was.
If you watched Sicko and came away with the idea that Moore believes the U.S. is limiting our access to learn how "good life is in Cuba", then you were listening with a predisposed concept of what was happening, and filled in the blanks of what is said with your own interpretation.
Actually, I was referring to a specific line toward the end of the movie. He first said that Cuban health care was superior to U.S. health care and then said something similar to "Perhaps part of the reason that the U.S. won't allow Americans to visit Cuba is so that they won't demand a similar system back home." I'm paraphrasing based on memory - There's no way I'm watching that garbage again to try to get the quote right.
I tried to go into it with an open mind. The problem was that I was hoping to learn something, but found that impossible because it was impossibly one-sided and made glaring omissions that made me question the legitimacy of the rest of his assertions.
What was Mr. Moore's explanation for the number of refugees willing to paddle all the way to Miami on a rubber tire? I have not watched the documentary, I really would like to know.
I did actually sit through that "documentary" and things like the tire paddlers were conveniently left out. As were the major problems with many socialized-medicine countries that he covered (long waits, sub-standard care, etc.)
Like I said, I really don't care to weigh in on which system is the best - Many people on both sides have both flowering examples and horror stories, but Sicko was a disgustingly biased load of crap that really went out of its way to support Moore's preconceived conclusion rather than provide any useful/accurate information.
I'm not trying to endorse either the Cuban lifestyle or Michael Moore here, but that is actually partially true. The Cuban healthcare system runs far more efficiently than the one in the US, at least as far as the numbers are concerned.
For example, the average life expectancy of a Cuban (77.23 years) is roughly on par with the average life expectancy of an American (78.1 years), but the Cuban government spends ~US$5/year/person on healthcare. In comparison, the amount spent in the US on healthcare (by individuals, government, businesses, etc..) is ~US$7200/year/person.
Given that they have embargoes on American medical technology, doctors, etc.. they must be doing something right.
Disclaimer: I'm from a country which has a nationally supported healthcare system alongside a private system, and they seem to work equally well together. I also don't understand why so many Americans hate Cuba so much..
Neither do I support the embargo. It was a bad idea that has demonstrated itself as a failure. And I'm not sure that (educated & intelligent) Americans really have a problem with Cuba (they're cool by me) - That doesn't necessarily include our legislators. But, my life expectancy would go up if I could afford neither steak nor beer. Instead, I'm sitting here well-fed, half-drunk, and on an uncensored internet connection (at least as uncensored as most of the world - and I have no objection to most of what people are being arrested for).
I'd still rather pay less for my medical insurance - Especially since the patents I'm paying for are being ignored on both my Canadian and Mexican borders. But socialism and capitalism are both nice ideas in theory. I just think that the US & Cuba are bad examples on either side. I'd love to find a country that's figured out how they should be balanced and needs a MSEE grad with PM experience that can look past a late-night semi-inebriated /. post...
Actually, Americans are still allowed in the Caribbeans. And they still visit. I think that GPP was bravely and insightfully pointing out that European tourists have some of the same hang-ups as American tourists. Although, they're generally less puritanical and tend to deny desires to do things like "keep the poor people at a safe distance".
Within a few years, either the Cuban government will lighten up, or the people will throw them out when they realize how much better their lives could be. People are only willing to put up with repressive regimes if they don't know there's anything better out there, which is why countries like Cuba, Iran and North Korea limit the amount of information about the rest of the world that their people can get their hands on.
Actually, according to a Mr. Moore documentary that I saw not too long ago, it's the U.S. government that's limiting our access to know how good life is in Cuba. If I understood his statements correctly, part of the reason that the U.S. is cutting Cuba off is to keep the U.S. populace from learning how socialized health care turns Cuba into such a paradise and keeps us from demanding it.
Not trying to weigh in on socialized heath care, just trying to troll based on a complete BS Moore line implying that the US is trying to prevent it's citizens from learning about the beautiful life Cubans enjoy thanks to socialized health care. Cheers.
Thank you... That may be the most ironic (flag the def. of irony nazis) typo I've had. Especially since my post started with "I think you misspelled..."...
Damn you spell-checker that only knows the proper spelling of dictionary words and not what I meant to say!!!
tomhudson
I think you misspelled Jimmy Carter.
But I agree - The embargo is idiotic. We (the U.S.) screwed up the same way in Iran. The people liked us shortly after the revolution and blue jeans and MTV could have really made for a good relationship, in my arm-chair general opinion. (Disclaimer - the notion that the general populace liked the U.S. comes from a single native Iranian who was teaching a Programming Patterns course that I attended, and I chose to believe him. Fell free to correct me.)
Cuba is similar - Give 'em YouTube, uncensored Google, porn, Wikipedia, streaming reality TV and show 'em the stuff that a lot of people in the world enjoy (for whatever reasons). It'll do a lot more good than what we've tried so far...
On a side note, if you're willing to drag a floaty toy to the beach and paddle your ass to Florida, I say we turn our heads and let you stay - You're obviously more dedicated to being an American than most of the folks that were born here.
Consider: 1% (or thereabouts) of the adult population of the US is in prison. Is this application of justice serving us?
If it keeps people with a history of burglary from robbing me? Yes. If it keeps the people with a history of murder from killing me? Yes. If it keeps the kids off my lawn? Well, kind-of.
OT - If it keeps otherwise law-abiding adults from smoking weed or people from using sex-toys in their own homes? Fuck no.
Hmm if I believe that it is stated in one of the fables of hackerdom that a hacker will be miserable and unproductive when forced to work 9 till 5 but will happily work from 12 till 2 AM. Perhaps forcing someone to do something they would gladly do of their own free will makes things worse for everyone.
Actually, I think your fable holds at least a little bit true, at least in my case. I work ~9-5 because it allows me to take care of myself and my family financially and because I believe in the work that I do. I worked my butt off in school to prepare myself for that.
Working on hacking systems, gaining unlawful access, collecting random accounts, etc? That was just juvenile fun that I got a great kick out of back in my youth - And it was all done mostly for free (my only benefit was free internet access through hacked accounts - that was all that my conscience would allow me to steal, although I had ample opportunity and admit to getting an ego-boost out of that fact - I was a just a talented juvenile delinquent). And, 12-2 AM were preferred hours for that kind of work. I stopped because I wanted to avoid jeopardizing future employment. But, despite being more satisfying on a number of levels, I would not say that my ~9-5 work now is ever as "enjoyable" as my history of 12-2 AM residence in hackerdom.
One of the biggest differences (that we're aware of) is signalling vs generative language. Human language builds on itself to expand itself in ways that we can understand new words based on their parts. For example, if I say the word "bullshitism" you kind of know what I'm talking about, even though I might have just made up the word now. We don't need to agree up front on this new word. The language is therefore generalisable.
I've never opened my eyes real wide, stared you down, dilated my pupils, and raised my fist in front of you before. But, if I did (I probably wouldn't - Despite looking a little intimidating, I'm a pretty laid back guy), you could probably interpret my message. No worries man, if we were having this conversation in a bar I'd buy you a drink right now - I just wanted something obvious and animalistic (my new word). It would have the same effect as if I'd said "I'm about to kick your ass" or if my cat had hissed and raised her paw with her claws out. If I (or my cat) had found a new way to relay that message, would it draw a line between instinctive behavior and genuine "communication".
I'm a little distraught over that line.
The cats that live in my house respond when their names are called
... and do they meow to communicate amongst themselves or do they leave vocal noises for when they want to attract human attention?
Sometimes - There's a high pitched chirping/meow they use to indicate that they're tracking something and the others come to help/compete.
Mostly, though, they communicate through hissing (profanity?) and simulated violence (threats?). That's cats for you. I'd rather stick to dogs and rats. Much better pets.
Your cat hisses, which is an auditory signal. No doubt. But is there information encoded symbolically?
Yes.
By hissing, my cat tells me symbolically that she's either scared, pissed, or both.
Of course, I keep trying to convince my wife that hissing means that she'd like to move out. That discussion typically doesn't end well...
Maybe you are not so much looking for a defition of "speaking" as much as what separates human language from other animal language.
You may be right. I'll let my definition of "speaking" stand, as I feel it's interesting and would love a good discussion on that point.
But, at the risk of trolling, what's the difference between human from animal language? I see no clear line. I've potty trained both humans and rats - I submit to you that they're both intelligent, just at different levels.
Even in the non-speaking animal world, communication occurs regularly.
I humbly request from the /. community a good definition of "speaking". My dog responds quite well when I speak commands and has a variety of barks/howls/whimpers. My 3-year old, although not speaking proper English, communicates just fine to levels that I'm only beginning to appreciate. My 1-year old only knows ~3 words, but several hand signs and multiple grunts/cries/etc. The cats that live in my house respond when their names are called and know to run when I holler at them - They also hiss when distressed or purr when pleased - I understand their meaning.
Where's the line? In order to communicate well enough for history to record it do you need a documented language? That seems unfair.
You missed a loophole - My personal bane. I get calls regularly with a recorded message asking me if I'd like to save money on my credit card bills - Caller ID blocked & no identification on the line. The only options are to press '1' to indicate interest or hang up. I've pressed '1' twice. The first time, I asked repeatedly who I was talking to. At first, he told me that "I work for Mastercard and Visa". I pressed on because that's obviously BS. He eventually told me that he "worked for 250 different banks". When I asked who actually signed his checks, he hung up on me. The second time I clicked through, I pretended to have significant credit card debt that I wanted to finance but acted skeptical because of the Caller ID block and eventually got to a supervisor. After the "Visa and Mastercard" and "250 different banks" responses, he told me that he worked for American General Finance.
Here's the rub, though. If they'd have called me, it would obviously be illegal. And whoever did call me was violating the Do Not Call rules. But by the time I got through to American General Finance, I had (by pressing '1') expressed an interest in doing business with them and they were kind enough to hang up on me when I made it clear that that was not the case. They won't tell me who they're contracting with making the illegal calls and frankly, I don't know how to find out.
Very frustrating.
Talking to yourself is a sign of insanity.
We disagree.
So do we.
Only if you've modded your Wii. Natively Wii-compatible DVDs can't be burned with most DVD burners.
I'm not an Obama guy - His lack of experience scares me
You're right. 20 years of experience in public service and law isn't nearly enough.
Damn straight. As of next January, he'll have completed 4 years of service at the national level (with basically no experience internationally). 8 years at the state level (and as a state senator - good experience, but not not that impressive on the national stage). And from your own link which seems to debunk his 20 year claim:
To get to 20 years of experience, we still need eight years from Obama's career prior to holding public office. Obama graduated from Columbia University in 1983. He worked for a year as a financial analyst; in his memoir he said he spent his days behind a computer terminal, "checking the Reuters machine that blinked bright emerald messages across the globe" and feeling like "a spy behind enemy lines." He gave up that job to go into community organizing, work he felt was more important politically. He worked three years as a community organizer in Chicago before going to Harvard Law School. We won't count the junior-level business experience as working "on behalf of families who are having a hard time," but the community organizing work does seem to fit the bill. That brings his work experience to 15 years.
Did you read that article before you linked to it?