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Cuba Getting Internet Upstream Via Venezuela
An anonymous reader writes "Seems like Cuba is working around the US internet embargo by teaming up with Venezuela: A confidential contract released yesterday on Wikileaks reveals Cuba's plan to receive internet upstream via an undersea cable to Venezuela, thus circumventing the enduring embargo of the US, denying Cuba access to nearby American undersea cables and overcoming the current limits of satellite-only connectivity. The connection, to be delivered by CVG Telecom of Venezuela, is to be completed by 2010 and will provide data, video as well as voice service for both the public and governmental services."
I figured they arranged for something like this years ago.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Are those sneaky Reds still trying to use their communism-infused cigars to persuade people to become socialists? Are we still angry over the failed Bay of Pigs invasion? Or do we just have a raging hard on for the nostalgic cold war?
There, fixed that for you :-)
expandfairuse.org
The US embargo is stupid anyway. It's got more to do with keeping the Florida ex-cuban population happily voting Republican than anything else.
Seems like Micheal Moore got it right.
We must uphold the embargo. Its the only way small impoverished Communist nations like Cuba can be brought to heel. We must never allow trade with communist countries, or buy their goods. Except China.
"I'd tap that!"
Not just cuba: Jamaica, Haiti and Trinidad too. But, think of the millions saved by going north instead of south. Can anyone tell me why we still have an embargo with Cuba? This is stupid.
Looks like one of our favorite sayings is evolving. The internet recognizes a problem and routes around it. Now also available in undersea cables rather than just software packets. Admittedly, that places US policy as the problem...
Best way to modernize any country is to connect them to the internet with a fat pipe. So expect the U.S. to sabotage this, since it would make the business of being against Cuba less profitable longterm.
I'm sure there will be some accidental ship-anchor-cable-cutting to be completed in 2011.
THL phish sticks
'nough said.
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
And yeah, it is kind of idealist, but making information readily available (potentially) gives the Cuban public a powerful tool to guide their own country... I could see how that would benefit both America AND the Cuban people. "The pen is mightier than the sword"
What we've been doing so far has just been punishment for being non-democratic, but what could be far more useful and helpful would be only offering Cuba the tools of undoing their very own dictatorship, such as access to the Internet and other forms of communication. This is also fits nicely with Cuba's new found freedoms under Raul, including access to some new technologies (cell phones, in particular).
Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
Does this mean I'm going to start getting e-mails from someone who purports to be in Cuba and has thousands of cigars that they can export for a huge profit if only I front them the money to bribe some official and they'll split the take with me?
Hmm. I was afraid of that.
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
If Florida weren't such a politically important state and the Floridians that held positions of privilege under Batista weren't so vocal, the US would have normalized its relations with Cuba long ago (and don't blame Bush for this one - both parties are equally to blame). Castro was a tin-pot dictator; but you can't convincingly argue that the situation for the average Cuban is somehow worse now than it was under Batista.
I realize there was concern about the Soviet Union using Cuba as a springboard to threaten the mainland US (and yeah, I know about the Cuban Missile Crisis); but that connection died about 20 years ago. The world has changed. Fidel is gone, and Raul has even undertaken some small reforms.
If we (the US) really want to rid the world of this small, tiny bastion of communism, we should engage them rather than embargo the island. Stop giving the Cuban rulers an enemy to unite the people against, and let the free market show them why they should dump their tired old system.
#DeleteChrome
My wife and I went to a resort in Cuba back in 2003. They did have (albeit slow) internet at the resort.
Some things about Cuba - the locals we met were some of the nicest people we've met anywhere in the world. Everyone in the country gets (at the time) the equivalent of $13 US per *month* to live, and that's it. Still, nobody ever asked anything from us (unlike Jamaica) and they would bend over backwards to do anything to help you. It was more likely for them to give *us* things, like on our first day there, one gentleman was making a grass hopper out of palm leaves on his break, and when his break was over he gave it to my wife and was offended when I reached for my wallet (I was used to the people who approach you in other places, like Peru, France, Mexico, even on our visit to New Orleans in '02, and I suppose in most major cities, doing some kind of performance to try and get some money out of you).
One of the most poignant moments was a long discussion we had with one woman who worked on the resort. She was asking us about some of the places we'd been able to travel (mostly Europe at the time), and she was telling us about her eventual goal to travel the world. It's not particularly easy for Cubans to travel. They have to get a travel permit from the government. It's quite expensive, and I believe it has to be for an officially sanctioned reason. Still she was determined to go, and I hope she eventually gets her wish.
But we were struck by how tragic it was that all these amazing people are practically being held hostage in their own country, cut off from the rest of the world. As far as I'm concerned, the more we can engage the common people in Cuba, through the internet, travel, trade, etc., the less time it will take for their country to reform, and for them to catch up with the rest of the western world. I really think the US embargo is completely counter-productive.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
Heaven forbid Cubans learn about the outside world and find out the glorious benefits of capitalism and human rights. What next? Cubans starting up blogs and expressing themselves beyond their borders?
----------------
Karma? Who needs karma?
Funny. I was exchanging emails with Cuban students and internet pioneers more then 10 years ago. I assure you this connection wasn't provided by satellite internet, it was provided by Sprint, the American company. Some clever university folks even had gopher, ftp & web sites.
More info: http://www.cubatrade.org/eyeon2000g.html
I honestly, don't know why we still have the embargo against Cuba. I mean, there *was* a reason for it, but that reason has long passed.
I suspect Fidel Castro had some involvment with Kennedy's assassination. I think until Fidel dies, the embargo wont be lifted. Kind of a political "Up Yours" from the US to Cuba. Still doesn't make it right to punish the rest of Cuba's population however as they don't support him, but rather fear him.
Life is not for the lazy.
So, for some reason, we believe that by besieging Communist China with capitalism, that we'll eventually convert them to it, ever so slowly.
So, are we to believe that the same is simply not possible in Cuba? I find that hard to believe.
Wouldn't a great way to spread democracy in Cuba, be to try to get the fastest, highest speed internet to their citizens, so they can hear about all the terrible deeds of their government?
I could see these arrangements changing in the not too distant future. Cuba is old news, and it's widely believed that as soon as Castro is gone, Cuba is going to be flung wide open to American tourism, trade, etc. Meanwhile, our buddy Hugo Chavez is working really really hard to get the United States to hate Venezuela as much as possible (he'd be the real monkey boy if Ballmer didn't do that trick so much better).
... and that big undersea cable will find its primary use in the other direction.
So what could happen in a few years is that the Internet embargo for Cuba will be lifted, but a new one will be placed on Venezuela
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
... someone accidentally drags an anchor.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
I thought Cuba Gooding Jr. already had internet..
oh.. I see...
Sure you've got some old cold war hawks still raging against the international threat of communism, but by and large it's to keep a large, cohesive voting bloc in a politically strategic location happy. It's hardly affecting other Americans, so there's little reason to ease up on the embargo.
Kennedy wasn't a great president. His administration supported MLK only when it was forced to by public opinion. He continued the idiotic tradition of using the CIA to subvert foreign government, though he may have changed his mind on that after the Bay of Pigs. And thankfully, he was intelligent enough to empathize with the Russian position on missile placement. If Reagan or Bush had been in the White House at that point, their idiotic cowboy attitude could very well have destroyed the planet.
Either way, his foreign policy is not that different from the PNAC cabal. When it suits the US for political or financial gain, send in the troops, but back in those days it barely required a pretext. But when it came down to it, he left every option on the table, including the most effective one: diplomacy.
I guess you could say that the embargo started out as a Democratic conspiracy, and when Republicans started following the same foreign policy for their own reasons, it continued. America could learn quite a few things from Cuba, not only in regards to their health care system, but also in the ways that they survived peak oil after the collapse of the Soviet Union - the first industrial society to do so, as far as I know.
As recent polls show, a majority of Americans hate Fidel even though they believe Cuba will remain the same without him, the result of decades of character assassination trying to undermine his government. They also favor restoration of diplomatic relations, which means very little to the politicians still in charge. Cuba represents independence from American influence to the whole of Latin America, and it's only 90 miles from Key West. Punishing their society for refusing to let our corporations into their market is far more important than anything else, especially the freedom and prosperity of the average Cuban citizen.
Thanks for setting me straight, I wasn't aware of the complex demographics here. :)
I touch computers in naughty places
Let me get this straight: an embargo that was begun by a Democratic White House and continued through several more Democrats presidents, and even expanded by yet another Democrat less than a decade ago (Clinton closed some loopholes in 1999) is a Republican conspiracy?
Straw man. Cuban Americans militantly opposed to normalized relations with Cuba vote overwhelmingly Republican. When a Democrat panders to this constituency, they're pandering to Republican voters, just like Obama's recent moves on the death penalty and sending public money to religious organizations.
The reps get the reputation of being though and so can use it to keep their backers happy. The dems get the rep that they are really against it and would change it if only they could and so keep their backers happy.
US politics has no left and right anymore as far as the major political events are concerned. The entire trick is to keep your own backers happy enough NOT to go voting for a 3rd party or stay home while taking as much of the center as possible.
Look at the current campaign. What is really going to be changed by either side? Nothing.
You cannot have a two party democratic system because it will by the nature of popularity contests (which is what western style democracy really is) always tend to have both parties come together in the middle because that is where the votes are.
The US is not alone to suffer from this. In france they recently had an election with the slogan. "Elect the crook, not the fascist". The voter could only choose between a known corrupt politician and an openly fascist one. Long live big parties, the best way to kill democracy.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Seems like helping the Cubans get internet access might help further U.S. goals better than the embargo does.
For years, the US has been getting Cuban cigars downstream via Canada and now Cuba will be getting American Internet upstream via Venezuela.
Would have been easier to directly get some European Internet or Asian Internet into Cuba... I heard the Chinese make them very cheap (but with the most useful things left out, was always). On the other hand, the Cuban presidency won't probably mind the Chinese "left-outs".
This is an argument against all embargoes and other economic sanctions. There is no difference — in principle — between banning you from going there yourself (propping up the regime with your tourism money), banning you from selling them shoes, and banning you from selling them advanced military technology. A free citizen — it can be argued along your lines — ought to be free to make their own decision. And free shareholders of a bank ought to decide, whether or not freeze a particular account. Etcaetera.
So, are you against all embargoes?
Or only against those, which target regimes you sympathize with (admit it, you own a Che Guevarra T-shirt)?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Democracy is the best of all systems of government, but it still sucks balls. We have got to place restrictions on government activity if we want this idiocy to end. The government should not be involved in economic regulation, or wealth redistribution, or healthcare, or education, or even emergency services. All they do is fuck everything up. We need to restrict the role of government to enforcing basic laws and providing national security in the most basic way possible. Anything that we can do for ourselves, we should do for ourselves. Keep the government out of it.
We gotta enlighten cuban people about open source before microsoft infects that country !
start it with our warcry - "lululululululululululululululu !!!!!!"
no, seriously. we gotta do it. it might be rather late for us, but they may actually escape the vendor lock-ins.
Read radical news here
...and metal cigar tubes make great antennas
I was in cuba about 3 months ago - see http://havana.360cities.net - The fact that the world discovers this now from Wikileaks is pretty funny, considering this was "known on the street" as a matter of fact in Cuba many months ago.
And yes, computers were banned until recently, but they have been widespread for a long time. It's just been illegal to own a computer. But when you consider that everything in Cuba is illegal, what difference does it make.
Same with an internet connection. You buy a dialup connection and use an SSH tunnel. Your local whizkid can help sort you out with this. Don't worry, there are computer whizkids in Cuba too :-)
The country is ruled by the rich, as are all Communist countries. The average Cuban makes on average $10 a month and can't even dream of owning a computer, the only time the average guy sees a computer is at the public Internet cafe, if he can afford it, and it's passed through a proxy server, just like China's, that removes pages that contain subversive words like freedom, equality, democracy. Removing any embargo will only make life more comfortable for the ruling %1 of Cuba and the rest of the ordinary citizens will still have nothing. Until the Communists are removed from Cuba it will continue to be a 3rd world country, as will all Communist countries, and I don't think that's necessarily a coincidence that all Communist countries are terrible places to live.
And please, no comments about how "the U.S. Is ruled by the rich" I'm pretty sure GWB will leave office when his term is up to allow another guy to be voted in to take his place, maybe even from the opposing party. You can't say the same for the life appointments of the dictators in Communist countries. Even if the leader mysteriously dies there is no chance of another party gaining control. And if you live in the U.S. you're making more than $10 a month even if you don't have a job!
I'm going to order myself 1200 H. Upmann petit-coronas. Yumm! Save me having to get Pierre Salinger to do it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Upmann_(cigar_brand)
Posts, MyBio or Sig, may contain satire, sarcasm, bolded nouns be sardonic or even witty & be Church of SD
I am sure that nobody actually wanted to launch them. The fact that the USSR had submarine-launched nukes slightly after that and never gave any indication that it wanted to unilaterally strike the USA proves that.
In fact for a long time the USSR had a "no first nuclear strike" policy when NATO did not.
I think it was the psychological bargaining power of having missiles so close to the USA that they wanted.
Sovereign country A has relations to and makes a deal with sovereign country B even though unrelated country C doesn't approve?
*monocle* Say it isn't so, old chap!
im not american (aussie) but barack obama looks like he probably realises - so i guess theres hope...
just over the border of russia, with radars and interception equipment that can track aircraft and tap into communications (and shoot down the craft!).
But that's OK, because you don't start wars in foreign countries so that you can make mucho dinero out of it, or score political goals...
America works so hard to promote the concept of free speech and liberty and should not deny it for others, even enemies. Embargoes on Luxury goods and weapons, that's ok. But embargoes on free speech, the free press and a medium for promoting alternate views in the target country? I'm not American but I feel that those aren't American values. Anyway...
After all, US navy has had enough practice.
'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
Fidel has been a pretty good dictator and Cuba has good healthcare and education, considering gnp... but still, you can't have fucking dictatorship!
There are socialistic winds blowing over latin america. I'm all for socialism and I wish I could feel optimistic, but I dare not. I fear democratic socialists will want tto turn into despots. Is democratic socialism impossible in practice in this free market world of ours?
It really can't be defended, specially today, but that's another story ...
- sigs are for wimps.
Especially since the patents I'm paying for are being ignored on both my Canadian and Mexican borders
Actually, you're quite wrong. Canadians respect WIPO patents - what they don't do, is let individual HMO's or people deal directly with drug companies who can then charge maximum rates. Instead, in a sort of collective bargaining arrangement, we buy our drugs in bulk then distribute to hospitals, etc.
In other words the government negotiates with Big Pharma - you want to do business here (and they do), you don't charge out the nose, although there are still exceptions to this. I cannot quite understand why Amercians do not demand this from their government as well - its almost like the politicans want you to pay more.
But that could'nt be, could it?
two year ago the president announce every aspect of that paper in national Tv. fyi
If you don't want to be forced into a communist or socialist system, it is very much totalitarian in the sense that it tramples our rights.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
What's the best way to fight bad ideas? With good ideas.
What's the best tool ever devised to disseminate good ideas? The Internet.
So... what the problem is?
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
Every fascist regime needs an enemy to justify any unpopular actions. I am from a former socialist country so I still remember how it was important to protect "the socialist way of life" against the "western imperialists". Fortunately, the whole communism idea was dropped all over the world(hell - even in its cradle - Russia) so now all these people can think for themselves. But there was no change in the system in the US and the owners of the country are all old men that probably still live in the 60's so they still use the same enemy to scare the simple people (u know - the rednecks that probably never left their county). That's the reason why Cuba is still officially evil.
The situation was really bad in Cuba for some time, now they are in a better situation than cca 10years ago. The crisis even helped to cure the population - the level of obesity, cardiovascular diseases and diabetes dropped significantly.
The American media (if accessible there) would probably help to change the regime in Cuba. But access to the internet (where people have free access to different information) could actually even strenghten the good feeling about NOT living in the USA. You know, the dollar was almost 3times more expensive 15yrs ago (and yes, we have inflation too) and when I watched M.Moore's movie Sicko (I know - I did not say he doesn't exagerate a bit) I was crying the tears of rage for the poor people that have no right for a basic health care and are told to live in the "greatest country".
Have you seen MTV recently?
I bet if Cuba had a ready supply of oil, this trade embargo would of only lasted a couple of years at best.
To deny your own neighbor access to the most basic of commodities is just as bad as the fight for ownership of the West Bank.
Cuba has dug their heels in for the past 15 years, maybe its time an olive branch is given. Why doesn't the UN step in? This embargo is hurting the people of Cuba more than the Cuban government.
But aren't the Cuban government afraid that Congress will send crack troops crawling through the system of tubes to invade ?
Or is congress concerned that the Cubans may crawl through a tube and settle in MAE West instead of Key West.
Nullius in verba
. . . free pr0n on the intertubes. . .
So, how come Internet openness is good to China but at the same time bad to Cuba? Where are those people claiming a "free" China now?
Someone has to be the firestarter!
Cuba's weather must be very different from my tropical island weather. If you don't get searing sunlight with near-rainforest humidity, it's rain, rain and oh MORE FUCKING RAIN, with hurricanes and flooding! Yay! And while it rains more for half the year than the other half (they call it the "rainy season," because a proper name like "monsoon season" would scare off the tourists), it always rains a little bit. It could be a bright sunny day and suddenly you'd get a burst of torrential rain that only lasts a few minutes. Or maybe just a light drizzling all day long, that barely reaches ground level because that bastard ball of gas in the middle of the solar system is so goddamn hot. The drizzling cools you down but it also causes the humidity to skyrocket. All this crappy weather causes major suckage for anyone interested in doing anything outdoors. So if Cuba's climate is anything like this, please let me know how relentless heat, high humidity and frequent rain (all things that encourage you NOT to be active) are good for your health.
I have a view of the ocean from my cubicle. It's pouring outside right now, just like the last couple of months. My 4x4 (which I need to get around this hellhole) is probably in a pond again at this point. Probably just a small 15-footer, not the 120-footer I found it in when I parked off the side of the building a while ago. Luckily I was able to jump across some rocks to get to it without wading in knee-deep water. Oooh it's an island paradise isn't it! Weeee!
It doesn't snow here but I'd take some snow in exchange for more predictable and less extreme weather.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
The US Government can no longer prevent good Cuba citizens from getting Internet using their personal compu....
oh wait. never mind.
NT
Comment of the year
Why not give em the cables and monitor everything coming down them? Oh I remember why, surely our government would never do such a thing. /tinfoil hat time
An Old Leftie friend of mine used to go to Cuba a lot as a reporter for his (US-based) union newspaper. When he was young, he'd help cut sugar cane to help the revolution; when was old, he'd go to the beach and drink rum. The US travel and spending rules were offensive, but you could work around them as long as you weren't trying to actually do business down there. I think you could go for educational purposes as well.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
"On a side note, if you're willing to drag a floaty toy to the beach and paddle your ass to Florida, I say we turn our heads and let you stay - You're obviously more dedicated to being an American than most of the folks that were born here."
This just helps underscore my assertion that "citizenship" demands by governments upon citizens is somewhat stupid these days. If a person is born here or immigrates to here, the most basic things they should be subject to are reasonable taxes and abiding by most of the sane laws. Ordering them to take an oath to become a citizen, and then subjecting them to put on a uniform to fight on behalf of money-mongers in power is plain stupid.
Now, anyone, mark me Troll if you WANT, but.... I'll go on...
And, I was born here, at Letterman General Hospital, on the Presidio, an army base at the time, delivered by a USMC captain (named Harry C. Beaver... yes, it's on my Certificate of Live Birth), and served in the USN (and did other JROTC stuff before then), and NONE of that makes me blindly feel that just because you're drafted/expected to/are too poor to work as a civilian means you are obligated to swear an oath to a fool or puppet in office.
But, where can I legally drop or deposit or send a dollar in the effort to circumvent the embargo on Internet in Cuba? Oh, wait, I won't get myself into jail. But, since some of the oil the US imports comes from Venezuela, I'll take comfort that SOME of that money is making its way to Cuba.
To (as a US citizen by default/by politi-speak, (but as far as *i* am concerned, I am a citizen of EARTH, and a RESIDENT of where I happen to work and pay my taxes, and if I go overseas and end up working, I'm ONLY paying taxes to the LOCAL authorities, and NO OTHERS outside that country, declared or NOT to IRS... especially if the employer is not a US-based or US-indigenous-remote-located company)) have to live in fear of going to prison if i wee to try to/succeed in a visit to Cuba is just plain stupid. I suspect Cuba's government has committed far fewer external interference than the US has. I think the US government is just pissed that Castro outlived numerous US administrations. Castro may be a despot, but ... well, just look at how many "superpowers" ran amok/interfered with "the Americas" and Asia...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
What makes you think Cuba doesn;t know what;s going on around the world? They do know, they do have access, though it is limited due to high cost and poor bandwidth of satellite internet. And this is because of US stupid, criminal embargo. But still, they have access through educational institutions. They have prioritized internet access for education and social benefits. And even with full access they will show the rest of the world how to put the people as first priority instead of any other selfish reason. They are great supportes of free software(of course, it's their best and only choice) and Cuba has a very strong, educated society(100%) and this will only help improve this. Internet is not censored. They don't have google, why? Because Google is not allowed by the US to put their services for Cubans. That happens with everything: food, medicines, cars, money transfer... anything you can imagine(and some unimaginable things). So this will help Cuba grow even more, have access to see why their fight was/is so important and how the rest of the world put people below other interests, which is pretty cruel. So, I am pretty confident in Cuba's educated society that they will grow even more with this internet upgrade, and the world will be witness of what they are doing for themselves in terms of technology and society matters.
the most powerful weapon we have is freedom of information. we should offer them free internet if they agree not to have censorship.
Actually, I don't think the problem is bad credit. Let's say they drop a cable and spend a few million dollars doing it. How much does it cost for a ship to drop anchor and "accidentally" drag and cut the cable, again and again and again?
All comunist dictatorships have shown us long ago that the thing a totalitarian government fears the most is a free flow of information. I believe that if the USA really want to get the Cuban regime on it's knees it should be PROMOTING Internet access as way to show Cubans "what they're missing".
All politians should be forced to read George Orwell...
On a side note: I have travelled all around the world. Altough being a democrat (notice the small "d", I'm Portuguese, democrat means someone who believes in democracy) I must admit the Cuban regime puzzles me. Cubans are poor. But none are hungry or desperate. Their health system shames any I have known. Their education system is even better!! And, all in all, they seem in average a lot happier than most "developed" countries I've travelled (in excess of 40 "first world countries"). I does make you wonder...
In 2007 the US exported $437 million dollars in goods to Cuba, mainly agricultural products (wheat, rice, etc.).
Funny kind of embargo.
Most of you guys have entirely missed the point on this one. Fidel (once again) is duping Venezuelan Pres^H^H^H^Hsock puppet Chavez into footing the bill, like the ripoff of 100 thousand or so barrels of oil transforming Cuba into an oil-exporting nation and mounting a $6 billion debt which will probably never be paid ... all of this to spit in the eye of the evil empire, USA.
as a venezuelan i would like to get more bandwidth to my country instead of giving it to Cuba. By the way, it wasn't secret.