But we (the people who knows) are trying to minimize the risk, at least me, it would be impractical to see what the hell it's doing my sister or my dad, personally, i have their PCs as untrusted because i don't know most of the time what they are doing.
But it's better to know that "Oh, yeah, i clicked install" on Firefox, than coming to me and asking me "Hey! I have two new bars on IE"
Hello! Well, here in Mexico there are some phishing scams, the most recent it's the clone of our "Wall Street" (Bolsa Mexicana de Valores) where they asked to make a "link" with your bank and of course, they will grab our your personal info, all the banks sent email and notices in they web pages but for some reason the people still fall in that scams, they can follow the instructions of the scam but can't follow the instructions from the bank.
I want my father and my sister, i FORCE them to use Firefox and Linux, just Windows/IE for pages where they can't navigate (there are some sites that can't even serve the page).
Anyway, the misinformation on securing the Internet it's the problem, software won't do it, like Internet Security, it's so annoying than the average person just disable it.
On the other hand, the average user can make trouble to companies that try to do something like this, for example, TELMEX, our phone company (it's a monopoly) and ISP (they have more than the 60% of all internet users) they give you information about danger in the web, they even give you for free an antivirus. But then, average people install software (IE?) that dials out to long distance phones, and the average user go to PROFECO (consumer protection) and sue TELMEX because they can't control that.
So, what can a big company do? i'm not telling that TELMEX are doing their best, but how can you force users not to do stupid things? you tell "Don't install software from untrusted parties" and that's what they do and they sue?
What do we need so the people can listen? A government organization that handles this kind of security and pass laws to protect users and providers?
Avergae user won't listen, and in that way the phishing will be around the corner, just like viruses.
I submitted this story like 5 days ago but it was rejected, nothing personal, yeah right. Anyway, there's a Wired article talking about this with the creators, here's the link:
The copy protect support in the binary and the point2play system are about all. Well, its easy enough to find a.exe nocd patch for your legitimate game copy, and lack of point2play is not a problem if you are confident typing cedega./mygame.exe in bash.
And again... you have to download a "crack" for this CD protection, and you should not use it even if you own the game, because is 'illegal' (or fairuse?)... and now you are hurting the game developer... this is a MESS! we should really encourage game developers to make a Linux version instead.
I believe this is a good approach, but how this is going to impact performance? if you take another path, do they disable it ? or try to render using software? which of course, will impact on performance.
For example, pixel shaders, MX440 doesn't have it, so if you code something to use them, you just cant unless you emulate them, deactivate or use another method... that's why you need a better card... like a FX5700 or something like that.
I believe there's need to be more law enforcement on this kind of attacks, there was a time when i didn't care at all about this... but when it happened to me (well my host service) a few days ago, and my boss telling me why there's no email service... the company page was down... a really mess, and most of the time, you just wait until things settle down.
But even if that's the case, the MX440 card lacks lots of features, and they calim to be using NV30 at their extent.
I mean, even if you know Pentium like your palm, Pentium MMX have more registers and special functions for multimedia, but even if you can do dirty hacks on Pentium, you can't have that, because then... someone will hack for Pentium MMX and they will be better... that's what i think when Carmack said that when new drivers come out, maybe we will get better performance... i don't know if this is a good example, but that was my point...... and yes, i had a MX440 and i emulated these extension so i can play it (but there was not a nice experience)
I agree with that... but i can't see it like a waste of money, first of all, X-Box have a part on the console market, which is really something, of course, with that kind of money they really had their chance and they use it.
On the other hand, we can say that Microsoft now have a community, they have 1 million people personal info, and they can make with that profiles what they want... migrate to X-Box 2? offers? contests? i mean, they have a big database and they can exploit it (and we know microsoft know how to do that)
Personally, i don't like Microsoft products, but on the console market they are doing some new things which is great, because now Nintendo and Sony will catch up and try to smash them, some nice competence doesn't hurt at all, we are going to benefit from that, unless one of this companies do something really great that monopolize the console market...
I really doubt you can get a good gamin experience, i mean, there are games la Prince of Persia (Sands of Time) that you can't play with MX440 because the bios, and if ID claims it will use NVIDIA bios to all their glory, how can this be?
Unless you think a good gaming experience is 20 fps using some sort of "hacks" (emulate?) bios/directx/whatever while you look corrupted textures and telling yourself "well, at least i can play"... like you can do to play PoP and a MX440...
Of course this ruling will not stop people from buying modchips, you can always import one! Anyway, i know these chips can be used for legitimate users (homebrew games, testing software, OSs, blah blah), but of course, lots of people use it for playing pirate/import games. Here in Mexico, there's no official support for Nintendo on their consoles (but it's not that popular), or X-Box which is really new here, but PS2 is the console that every game fan have, and i can tell you, every person have a chip for playing pirated copies, they doesn't care about legitimate use, and i believe there's the problem. I mean, you can buy a PS2 and go to a flee market, and there's all the PSX / PS2 pirated copies and you can choose the chip you want, and believe, that's illegal, maybe chips are in the gray are, but pirated games? so i believe that's the problem, if you are going to sell pirtaed copies, you need the chip, and this problem exists, Sony announced the official support for the console a months ago but there are no enforcement, even in the raids with the AFI (our equivalent to FBI) they take music CDs and stuff, but they don't touch pirated games, this is a big problem, because thanks to that the price for a PS2 game it's from 60 to 120 us dollars. Of course, Microsoft enforce their copyright laws and handle this with more care (there's no pirtaed copies of XBOX or Chips, you need to 'know someone') anyway, i really believe that there no way out on telling that modchips are "good", we can't fight it because they have an illegal use (>90%)...
There's nothing like reading a real book, but they should use tons of recycled paper or make a nice program because paper kills many trees. I know this sounds weird but we should use technology for preserve this planet and not only for the big consumption.
And you dare to say that when Internet Explorer is having new bugs/exploits every day?
I don't care if they have an army of QA people, because it seems that they don't know how to do their job! bugs and ugs everywhere! and we of course, we can't have bug-free apps, but at least, not be so stupid or critical! because a developer from MS forgot to change something.
Well, it happens when you need to run legacy applications or very old ones (which have an specific task) like Electronic Emulators, and stuff like that, i'm not like flaming Windows users, i'm just telling that they have problems too with dependencies, so it's not just "Linux" problem, my point is, with OSS you can recompile or fix it (you or a team) to get it working again on modern OS/Hardware, something that you can't with propietary code.
I really don't know why all people says that it's better Windows because you can install an app with one click! I mean, Microsoft make the kernel and most of the apps a user can use, but you can't do nothing about it, it's a simple install or not install, i prefer compile my programs, of course an end-user can't do this easily, but of course there where developers come and try to ease this part of Linux. People say "but dependencies..." well, there's a DLL hell too, and it's worse, because if you have a program compiled against a certain DLL, you update the lib packages, and boom! you break the app, so you need to copy the old dll and use it, until the owner of the program fix it (sometimes you just need to recompile), and yes, Linux have problems with dependencies, but, you can recompile right away to fix that, or make an static binary with the old one, and of course an emerge, swaret, aptget will make things easier for you, if you are in windows, you are just stuck!
And of course an end user doesn't see a benefit in "openess" like a inmmediate benefit, but hey! thanks to that developers like us can develop an app because WE want to make something in a way, we can get a code and extend it, or we can start from scratch, community will help and we are going to have a good App.
Of course, some people will say "that's unprofessional", "there's no quality", well, you see, there are NORMAL people in QA departments, and there are only humans in developer departments, yeah! that's right! and that kind of people code apps under GPL, and yeah, that QA people working for BIG_COMPANY can review code, for free? yeah, that's right... but of course, people want's something you can... sue... "Sue Microsoft!", "Sue Apple", yeah, they feel better because there's a big company behind that it makes crappy software, but at least, the can see a building with their name, come on? most people develop open source software on their free time, and they develop propietary software too, of couse, in OSS you make what you want and extend it, and you are not doing it because "marketing" department told you so...
Anyway, just try to see that WE, the community can fix the problems, improve and create like we want... Microsoft... Windows, well, the people using that are stuck, if Microsoft says "there will not be backward compatibillity", well, you are stuck! as simple as that... and of course, you can always grab a Windows 95 copy, install it, use old drivers, so you can use an old program that they don't make anymore because the X company went bankrupcy.
SO what? everything needs dependencias (at least on shared systems)...
I mean...
"DLL Hell" sounds anything to you? and if a solution like some windows apps it's to have their own dlls so you have several dlls (which do the same) but just change a revision or two, it starts to be messy.
What it's true, it's that if a windows program it's compiled with an old dll, and you change it, you can brake the program and you have to wait until the owner compile it again to resolv this conflict, or stick with the old lib, or just find another program which uses the new DLLs... or you can install new libs and make a good./configure make make install
or make a fast package... checkinstall -S in Slackware, so you can have a good way to remove it!
Yeah, and don't forget Swaret which is a really good app for Slackware users, so you can update, check dependiencies and stuff, just with a few commands...
Don't forget about Slackware!! It's an awesome distro!
Well, in Mexico you don't even take an exam which includes parallel parking. In my case, i took a 2 weeks course for driving, they teach me how to park like that just 1 time (yes, just 1 time), they signed me a letter and with that, they gave me my license, of course, my dad and family are from Mexico City so they told me how to drive and park like that (in small cities like where i'm living right now everything is more slow, so more morons at the wheel), but yeah, i believe parallel driving needs to be a MUST in a driving test. I mean, i know several people which can't park like that... even in the traffic law, it says you need to park and be no more than 30cm far from the street.
How is thins going to be supported in other countries? For example, here in Mexico, there are some major problems with software, because of piracy companies don't bring these technology here, most of you could say "cool!" but if this happens in a near feature, there will be countries that could be locked in "old technology" and we will not have access to new services, just like iTunes, i mean, i'm willing to pay for this kind of service, but i can't use it in Mexico, i want to buy videogames, but there are almost none, just Microsoft games, and a few from other companies and is spanish from spain, not Mexico. What happens when biggest companies start switching to this and leaving non-drm products behind? presonally id on't want to look for hacks in this technology for enjoy content... MY content... don't get me wrong, i don't like DRM, i don't want it to happen, at least not in this way...
The problem here is that if you market your project, it will be exposed to other requirements and maybe you will loose a little freedom, let me explain.
If you market to make milliones of people use you, then you will need to satisfy the most part of this market, then you will need more requeriments, easy ways to do things (wizards?) or less advanced functions, then you want to get more advanced features, but that' doesn't work because now your market share are less geeks, now what? you only have time for do one or another, and you need a product, because people already know you, see? you are a product now! They even expect you to change UI, even if there are no internal changes, just to see "something is new".
If you are look for the benefits of a package and you use Slackware, try checkinstall. Just configure the sources, make them and before installing use this programa, it will make a good slackware packages, and you will get the benefit of remove or update packages in a clean way!
Same here, i'm in Mexico, and i had a class with a teach (Operating Systems 2, you learn about OS, how to install, features, blah blah), so i was interested in Linux in my school (we don't have any Linux at all), and it ate me in a class, because Linux was useless, he was happy with his AIX and Netware, he said "we will never use Linux for critical systems like file serving (netware)", now who's laughing?, persons from IT department should be more open-minded. but don't get me wrong, we don't like "new technology, buy it!" but just stop and think before you talk about this, i mean, i took this class 1 and a half year ago.
Slashdot Mirror
You are damn right! Really!
But we (the people who knows) are trying to minimize the risk, at least me, it would be impractical to see what the hell it's doing my sister or my dad, personally, i have their PCs as untrusted because i don't know most of the time what they are doing.
But it's better to know that "Oh, yeah, i clicked install" on Firefox, than coming to me and asking me "Hey! I have two new bars on IE"
That's all!
Hello!
Well, here in Mexico there are some phishing scams, the most recent it's the clone of our "Wall Street" (Bolsa Mexicana de Valores) where they asked to make a "link" with your bank and of course, they will grab our your personal info, all the banks sent email and notices in they web pages but for some reason the people still fall in that scams, they can follow the instructions of the scam but can't follow the instructions from the bank.
I want my father and my sister, i FORCE them to use Firefox and Linux, just Windows/IE for pages where they can't navigate (there are some sites that can't even serve the page).
Anyway, the misinformation on securing the Internet it's the problem, software won't do it, like Internet Security, it's so annoying than the average person just disable it.
On the other hand, the average user can make trouble to companies that try to do something like this, for example, TELMEX, our phone company (it's a monopoly) and ISP (they have more than the 60% of all internet users) they give you information about danger in the web, they even give you for free an antivirus. But then, average people install software (IE?) that dials out to long distance phones, and the average user go to PROFECO (consumer protection) and sue TELMEX because they can't control that.
So, what can a big company do? i'm not telling that TELMEX are doing their best, but how can you force users not to do stupid things? you tell "Don't install software from untrusted parties" and that's what they do and they sue?
What do we need so the people can listen? A government organization that handles this kind of security and pass laws to protect users and providers?
Avergae user won't listen, and in that way the phishing will be around the corner, just like viruses.
I submitted this story like 5 days ago but it was rejected, nothing personal, yeah right. Anyway, there's a Wired article talking about this with the creators, here's the link:
. html?tw=wn_story_top5
http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,65819,00
Who moderate this? not because it's wrong, because he/she had the guts to click a linked image on slashdot! :D
I believe this is a good approach, but how this is going to impact performance? if you take another path, do they disable it ? or try to render using software? which of course, will impact on performance.
For example, pixel shaders, MX440 doesn't have it, so if you code something to use them, you just cant unless you emulate them, deactivate or use another method... that's why you need a better card... like a FX5700 or something like that.
:D
i think this covers the "because the bios"
Later
I believe there's need to be more law enforcement on this kind of attacks, there was a time when i didn't care at all about this... but when it happened to me (well my host service) a few days ago, and my boss telling me why there's no email service... the company page was down... a really mess, and most of the time, you just wait until things settle down.
Hell yeah!
... and yes, i had a MX440 and i emulated these extension so i can play it (but there was not a nice experience)
But even if that's the case, the MX440 card lacks lots of features, and they calim to be using NV30 at their extent.
I mean, even if you know Pentium like your palm, Pentium MMX have more registers and special functions for multimedia, but even if you can do dirty hacks on Pentium, you can't have that, because then... someone will hack for Pentium MMX and they will be better... that's what i think when Carmack said that when new drivers come out, maybe we will get better performance... i don't know if this is a good example, but that was my point...
I agree with that... but i can't see it like a waste of money, first of all, X-Box have a part on the console market, which is really something, of course, with that kind of money they really had their chance and they use it.
On the other hand, we can say that Microsoft now have a community, they have 1 million people personal info, and they can make with that profiles what they want... migrate to X-Box 2? offers? contests? i mean, they have a big database and they can exploit it (and we know microsoft know how to do that)
Personally, i don't like Microsoft products, but on the console market they are doing some new things which is great, because now Nintendo and Sony will catch up and try to smash them, some nice competence doesn't hurt at all, we are going to benefit from that, unless one of this companies do something really great that monopolize the console market...
just my two cents
I really doubt you can get a good gamin experience, i mean, there are games la Prince of Persia (Sands of Time) that you can't play with MX440 because the bios, and if ID claims it will use NVIDIA bios to all their glory, how can this be?
Unless you think a good gaming experience is 20 fps using some sort of "hacks" (emulate?) bios/directx/whatever while you look corrupted textures and telling yourself "well, at least i can play"... like you can do to play PoP and a MX440...
Of course this ruling will not stop people from buying modchips, you can always import one!
Anyway, i know these chips can be used for legitimate users (homebrew games, testing software, OSs, blah blah), but of course, lots of people use it for playing pirate/import games.
Here in Mexico, there's no official support for Nintendo on their consoles (but it's not that popular), or X-Box which is really new here, but PS2 is the console that every game fan have, and i can tell you, every person have a chip for playing pirated copies, they doesn't care about legitimate use, and i believe there's the problem.
I mean, you can buy a PS2 and go to a flee market, and there's all the PSX / PS2 pirated copies and you can choose the chip you want, and believe, that's illegal, maybe chips are in the gray are, but pirated games? so i believe that's the problem, if you are going to sell pirtaed copies, you need the chip, and this problem exists, Sony announced the official support for the console a months ago but there are no enforcement, even in the raids with the AFI (our equivalent to FBI) they take music CDs and stuff, but they don't touch pirated games, this is a big problem, because thanks to that the price for a PS2 game it's from 60 to 120 us dollars. Of course, Microsoft enforce their copyright laws and handle this with more care (there's no pirtaed copies of XBOX or Chips, you need to 'know someone') anyway, i really believe that there no way out on telling that modchips are "good", we can't fight it because they have an illegal use (>90%)...
There's nothing like reading a real book, but they should use tons of recycled paper or make a nice program because paper kills many trees. I know this sounds weird but we should use technology for preserve this planet and not only for the big consumption.
But all people speak english! or you don't see movies? :)
And you dare to say that when Internet Explorer is having new bugs/exploits every day?
I don't care if they have an army of QA people, because it seems that they don't know how to do their job! bugs and ugs everywhere! and we of course, we can't have bug-free apps, but at least, not be so stupid or critical! because a developer from MS forgot to change something.
Well, it happens when you need to run legacy applications or very old ones (which have an specific task) like Electronic Emulators, and stuff like that, i'm not like flaming Windows users, i'm just telling that they have problems too with dependencies, so it's not just "Linux" problem, my point is, with OSS you can recompile or fix it (you or a team) to get it working again on modern OS/Hardware, something that you can't with propietary code.
I really don't know why all people says that it's better Windows because you can install an app with one click!
I mean, Microsoft make the kernel and most of the apps a user can use, but you can't do nothing about it, it's a simple install or not install, i prefer compile my programs, of course an end-user can't do this easily, but of course there where developers come and try to ease this part of Linux.
People say "but dependencies..." well, there's a DLL hell too, and it's worse, because if you have a program compiled against a certain DLL, you update the lib packages, and boom! you break the app, so you need to copy the old dll and use it, until the owner of the program fix it (sometimes you just need to recompile), and yes, Linux have problems with dependencies, but, you can recompile right away to fix that, or make an static binary with the old one, and of course an emerge, swaret, aptget will make things easier for you, if you are in windows, you are just stuck!
And of course an end user doesn't see a benefit in "openess" like a inmmediate benefit, but hey! thanks to that developers like us can develop an app because WE want to make something in a way, we can get a code and extend it, or we can start from scratch, community will help and we are going to have a good App.
Of course, some people will say "that's unprofessional", "there's no quality", well, you see, there are NORMAL people in QA departments, and there are only humans in developer departments, yeah! that's right! and that kind of people code apps under GPL, and yeah, that QA people working for BIG_COMPANY can review code, for free? yeah, that's right... but of course, people want's something you can... sue... "Sue Microsoft!", "Sue Apple", yeah, they feel better because there's a big company behind that it makes crappy software, but at least, the can see a building with their name, come on? most people develop open source software on their free time, and they develop propietary software too, of couse, in OSS you make what you want and extend it, and you are not doing it because "marketing" department told you so...
Anyway, just try to see that WE, the community can fix the problems, improve and create like we want... Microsoft... Windows, well, the people using that are stuck, if Microsoft says "there will not be backward compatibillity", well, you are stuck! as simple as that... and of course, you can always grab a Windows 95 copy, install it, use old drivers, so you can use an old program that they don't make anymore because the X company went bankrupcy.
SO what? everything needs dependencias (at least on shared systems)...
./configure
I mean...
"DLL Hell" sounds anything to you? and if a solution like some windows apps it's to have their own dlls so you have several dlls (which do the same) but just change a revision or two, it starts to be messy.
What it's true, it's that if a windows program it's compiled with an old dll, and you change it, you can brake the program and you have to wait until the owner compile it again to resolv this conflict, or stick with the old lib, or just find another program which uses the new DLLs...
or you can install new libs and make a good
make
make install
or make a fast package... checkinstall -S in Slackware, so you can have a good way to remove it!
Yeah, and don't forget Swaret which is a really good app for Slackware users, so you can update, check dependiencies and stuff, just with a few commands...
Don't forget about Slackware!! It's an awesome distro!
Well, in Mexico you don't even take an exam which includes parallel parking. In my case, i took a 2 weeks course for driving, they teach me how to park like that just 1 time (yes, just 1 time), they signed me a letter and with that, they gave me my license, of course, my dad and family are from Mexico City so they told me how to drive and park like that (in small cities like where i'm living right now everything is more slow, so more morons at the wheel), but yeah, i believe parallel driving needs to be a MUST in a driving test. I mean, i know several people which can't park like that... even in the traffic law, it says you need to park and be no more than 30cm far from the street.
Plus, we can count in a near future with OLED displays... pretty bright and consume less energy.
How is thins going to be supported in other countries? For example, here in Mexico, there are some major problems with software, because of piracy companies don't bring these technology here, most of you could say "cool!" but if this happens in a near feature, there will be countries that could be locked in "old technology" and we will not have access to new services, just like iTunes, i mean, i'm willing to pay for this kind of service, but i can't use it in Mexico, i want to buy videogames, but there are almost none, just Microsoft games, and a few from other companies and is spanish from spain, not Mexico. What happens when biggest companies start switching to this and leaving non-drm products behind? presonally id on't want to look for hacks in this technology for enjoy content... MY content... don't get me wrong, i don't like DRM, i don't want it to happen, at least not in this way...
The problem here is that if you market your project, it will be exposed to other requirements and maybe you will loose a little freedom, let me explain.
If you market to make milliones of people use you, then you will need to satisfy the most part of this market, then you will need more requeriments, easy ways to do things (wizards?) or less advanced functions, then you want to get more advanced features, but that' doesn't work because now your market share are less geeks, now what? you only have time for do one or another, and you need a product, because people already know you, see? you are a product now! They even expect you to change UI, even if there are no internal changes, just to see "something is new".
Just my two cents
If you are look for the benefits of a package and you use Slackware, try checkinstall.
Just configure the sources, make them and before installing use this programa, it will make a good slackware packages, and you will get the benefit of remove or update packages in a clean way!
Same here, i'm in Mexico, and i had a class with a teach (Operating Systems 2, you learn about OS, how to install, features, blah blah), so i was interested in Linux in my school (we don't have any Linux at all), and it ate me in a class, because Linux was useless, he was happy with his AIX and Netware, he said "we will never use Linux for critical systems like file serving (netware)", now who's laughing?, persons from IT department should be more open-minded. but don't get me wrong, we don't like "new technology, buy it!" but just stop and think before you talk about this, i mean, i took this class 1 and a half year ago.
:)
I'll visit him, just to see his face...
Later