Yes, absolutely, I've been trying to drill this into my wife's head for years, where you work is not your family, sure you like(d) working there, sure it's a good place to work, but when the chips are down they'd eat your young if it helped the bottom line.
She found it out in July, they sold out, no warning, not even a WEEK before they closed up shop they were spouting off on how they had some good contracts coming up, etc etc etc. Less than a week later she's being "laid off" to make matters even more lovely the bastards quit paying their share of the Cobra health insurance so on Sep 1 that went away too! (luckily for us Alabama has a state run group health plan for people losing cobra or other group coverage, and our premiums are only $790 per month, yes sarcasm is implied).
Now she's telling me how she's not getting emails every day from her friends (surprise remember how you said these people are like your family and they love you? well who's emailed you at all this week?). Not pretty to see a 29 year old woman have to learn such a hard lesson. Hey I learned it 4 years ago myself when I was 26 so I wasn't much better off.
Ok unemployment sucks, but this article is.. not that good but I digress.
I was unemployed 2 years ago on Oct 16th I knew it was coming, around March I realized (when quarterly earnings showed 1.9 million burned 4 million in the bank, can you say dot BOMB?). So I moved back to the small town I came from figuring it'd be easier to pay a $350 a month rent payment on unemployment than it would a $1300 a month payment in the Bay Area. I moved in July and telecommuted until the end.
I immediately started planning on starting my own business I was hoping to last until about Christmas 2001 but I got axed on Oct 16th instead. Oh well. Started my company, did some consulting here and there, made ends meet, got some customers, a few more, no more consulting was scraping by on the business, more customers, and more, and then tax time comes and I realize I owe uncle sam $13,000 in taxes (YIKES!).
Long story shorter, I get up when I want, go to bed when I want, leave when I want and stay at home with my 3 year old son (well he'll be 3 next week). I run my business from home.
I've always been a unix geek/linux nut/internet addict so why not make a business out of it, web hosting is the perfect job:) Now I have a decent sized income bills are paid, and I get to play around with over 50 linux boxen hosting over 11,000 web sites.
My wife also just lost her job of over 10 years, company sold out and that's that (they were dying anyway so sell out or bankruptcy they chose sell out). So she stays home draws unemployment and plays with the kid too, a kid with two stay at home parents how lucky can he be? She also is doing some volunteer work.
When the unemployment runs out she might start her own business, she likes decorating cakes, or maybe open a daycare. Or get into real estate she likes going out and looking at nice houses, so why not sell 'em for a living. I told her don't look for another "job" do something you LIKE instead, the money isn't important the satisfaction is.
The economy truly sucks right now and I really would hate to be trying to find a job, but sometimes you might have better luck making your own job instead of looking for one.
There are days I _write_ and send well over 100 emails, as the owner of a medium sized web hosting company I send lots of email. I also recieve a LOT of email.
I wish I had a simple elegant solution to spam, the challenge/response is somewhat decent for normal users if implemented properly and used properly big IF there. Bayesian filtering is ok but again only if you work at it, plus it doesn't stop the spam taking up our bandwidth, just the end user from seeing it (if they decide to trust the filters).
Using spamcop and open relay blocklists helps some, we also have an inhouse rbl where we add ips that spam us so at least they can't get us again. But this doesn't stop it all, maybe 50% or so I guess.
In any one day our servers get millions of spam messages, and I only host about 12,000 websites, imagine the big guys.
You're kinda right, jabber is awesome too bad it's not more popular.
We use jabber in my company as a quick means to IM other techs/etc in the organization and it's great, the ability to have a chat window open and the other party leave and still chat and they come back later to what you wrote is extremely nice (I dunno if other IM's do this, I use Jabber and ICQ and that's all).
There is 3 people in my house, me, my wife, and my son, and I am on that list with one phone number.
However I'm sure there is more than a few single people on there with multiple numbers so who knows whether it's more people than phone numbers on that list or the other way around.
On topic: verisign sucks, if you need SSL get geotrust, and I haven't registered a domain with these bastards after alternatives were allowed (enom.com/opensrs/etc).
Off topic: (kinda)
OK I switched a test DNS server to use this OpenNIC, but it still resolves unknown domains to sitefinder shouldn't that quit working once I switch my hints to these guys?
[root@www45 named]# ping ns1.opennic.glue PING ns1.opennic.glue (209.151.84.102) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from primary-ns.translator.cx (209.151.84.102): icmp_seq=1 ttl=241 time=63.7 ms
Ok so that works but
[root@www45 named]# ping asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfaf3232342f23f23r23r23ffff. com PING asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfaf3232342f23f23r23r23ffff. com (64.94.110.11) 56(84) bytes of data.
How hard could it be to make a file available on something like Kazaa and have a script that auto-pulls that list from the P2P network once so often and adds the ips to a local blocklist or firewall rule.
It's a little emphasis on the fact that bitching about not having access to the internet while you're SUPPOSED to be working is mighty... well silly.
As an employer I don't owe it to my employees to give them free access to the internet and external email. While they're on the clock they're supposed to be doing something relevant to a job, not browsing the web. Of course in my business it's a necessity for people to have access to the internet, otherwise there wouldn't be so much as a dialup available.
After several attempts at hiring people salary or hourly I got fed up and now everyone works remotely from home (or their other job hahaha) and pay is purely performance based. It was that or Indian tech support.
Last time I checked people get a job to WORK, a computer is a tool to be used for WORK. Don't come to WORK expecting to browse ebay, do that at home when you're not WORKing.
No wonder so much is going to India and other countries, those people WORK for the money they're paid and they do it for less money.
This is the very attitude causing companies to outsource the fact people expect their WORK to be more like entertainment than WORK. I don't like the outsourcing crap at all, I don't like seeing buddies laid off when their tech support job goes to India but then I see how their work ethic is (when they come to work for me) and I end up having to fire them because they're not doing any WORK but playing around all day. Unfortunately in the web hosting tech support game you have to give your employees internet access else I sure as hell wouldn't give anyone access who didn't need it to WORK.
Instead of oursourcing to India (which was soooo tempting) I moved to a performance based scale paying per instance rather than wages, so if you don't WORK you don't get paid, wanna browse Ebay all day? Go ahead but you won't get paid.
Nothing much new here, a friend of mine (in the US) makes his living with Everquest. A rather well off ceo of some smaller company pays him a stipend to be "on call" when the guy plays he only has a little bit of time so my friend has his character ready and waiting to do "fun stuff" if the dude dies he just tells my friend where his corpse is so he can do the drudge work of recovering it for him while the exec is away from the game.
On top of that, he gets paid to help people level up ($20 an hour), and sells items and premade characters (he told me about this single sword he sold for $1500 apparently it was quite hard to get). Last time I talked to him he'd just bought a (nearly new) minivan, put an addition on his house, and was not bitching about money problems, and his wife definitely doesn't make the income for those kinda upgrades to their life so while I didn't get a firm figure I know he's gotta be pulling in 35K at least to get by, and I suspect it's more.
He gave an offer of joining him, teamwork makes things more efficient and while I considered it I really didn't want to base my living on the whims of the online world (funny thought coming from the owner of a web hosting company).
Choice 2: fight it, now this can be anything from only working 40, suing for overtime, quitting, or whatever.
That's really what it boils down to, rhetoric aside you can either fight the crap or take the crap.
Personally I got sick and tired of the crap, so when I knew layoffs were coming I welcomed it, used all the resources at my disposal to prepare to start my own business doing web hosting and when the axe came I was ready and waiting to do my own thing. Nearly 2 years later, I work at home, if I get pissed off I get up and leave on my motorcycle for a little while or pack the kid into the convertible and hit a DQ for some Blizzards, if I feel like taking some time off I pack up and go to the lake for a few days, if I want to go watch the Matrix Reloaded on release day at the 11AM showing (earliest we got) I just go. No time clock, no deadlines, no one standing over my shoulder (except my 2 year old who can be a slavedriver!). Can't be happier.
I don't agree with an employer pulling my credit, but my last two jobs had this as part of the permissions I gave them on my application. I gave permission, neither company pulled my credit, they just asked permission.
Still don't agree with it but the choice between defending my principles and paying my bills is a quick choice. If you're unemployed you'll likely find your credit rating getting worse anyway.
That being said, I'm just glad I'm the owner of my own company now so I don't have any of these aggravations and no boss, other than my 2 year old son who stays home with me most days.
If China does it, we'll have to do it too, right now our space program is lacking and a good push by the "Reds" into space again will get us back into orbit faster than you can say "Star Wars Defense Initiative".
The US needs an "enemy" and China looks to be ready to give us the Yin for our Yang. I dont' man it in a bad way, but we need someone to "push" against who can push back.
And our space program needs a shot in the arm for once, not the balls.
Within a year or so PDA's will fall under this rule, since I remember reading somewhere the PS2 (I think it was) technically was over the allowed power.
1.5MEGAbits?
AND YOU'RE WHINING?
for $40-50 per month?
SHUT UP, GET OVER IT, AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT USE THE COMPETITION. MY GOD.
The whining is insane, OH I AM ONLY GETTING 1.5 MEGABITS NOW, OH WHOA IS ME. Good grief if you dont' like it LEAVE their service.
MAYBE the reason @home went out of business is giving away too much for the money, maybe if you're lucky your NEW provider won't go out of business since they have sense enough to charge a rate that's fair for the service.
I use a locally owned (AFAIK) cable modem solution, for $99 a month I get business class cable (1 static 8 dhcp IPs and can run servers).
I looked and looked for a TOS/AUP on their site www.pclnet.net and couldn't find more than the "FAQ".
They annoy me on some things:
#1 can't post to usenet, just read it (WTF)
#2 ICMP is blocked at their core router, traceroute? ping? forget it.
#3 they know me by name and know that I have no less than 5 computers at any time, and they absolutely will not let me downgrade my service to basic residential. They know for a fact I'll setup linux with ip masq and run all the machines off of it:) SO I use the static IP for a secondary DNS for my company.
both as a seller and as a buyer, I average about 100 transactions a month, generally I spend about $1000-2000 a month and take in about a thousand on sales (I use my Paypal debit card a LOT).
I've only had a few small quibbles, mainly usage (like why one checking account I can do "instant transfers" from and my other account I can't!
I keep about $100-200 on my accounts (one for business and one for personal checking accounts). So far I've been happy with the service, I've been able to dodge the merchant account bullet (good god that crap is expensive), and I still get paid.
Of course the biggest amount I've ever bought or sold was about $400 so maybe I'm just small potatoes.
I took a unix programming class, one of the first commands we learned was "uptime" the server we were on was at around 3 months uptime, I'd never heard of no such thing!
Downloaded Linux boot/root disks version uhm,.83alpha?.81?.87? good god I can't remember, finally got booted, thought it was neat, downloaded Slackware.97Beta (.99beta? maybe both it was a long time ago) all.. 33? 35? floppies and installed it, actually got X windows running, got it to use my modem to dial into the university computer. NO MORE LAB FOR ME, I could do it at home.
I gained extra credit when my teacher asked how'd I upload my source and I said "cat source >/dev/modem" while on my terminal I had "vi source" opened.
This is just too easy to accomplish most places. One place I worked you had to have a keycard to get in, dude stands around the door, as people come back from lunch, he walks in, grabs a laptop out of a conference room (they were gone for lunch) and just walks out.
Of course we all got the "security simply must be better" but no one really did much about it after a few days it was all as it was before.
Re:Isn't there a way that /.'s bandwidth requireme
on
Slashdot Updates
·
· Score: 1
I could give about 20GB a month in traffic, hey I know it ain't a "great deal" of bandwidth but it's something!
My last comment was marked "flamebait" so I'll try this again.
It doesn't matter which is "better" I don't see OGG car stereos, OGG home stereos, OGG portable players. We may, and when we do I'll be one of the first to give ogg a try then. Maybe I'm just a rare case but I don't JUST listen to music on my computer, I also like to listen to music in my car, in my living room, when I'm out working in the yard, and other times, and that's where Ogg loses, it can have the most awesome sound in the world, if I can't listen to it in my car or anywhere else BUT my computer it just doesn't matter.
Call it flamebait but that's simply how it is, when the day comes when I need to decide "MP3 or OGG in my system" then I'm gonna care a LOT which sounds better, until then it's a moot point, if I can't pop a burned CD full of ogg files into my home stereo/car stereo or dump a couple gigs of OGG to my portable player then I dont care which is better.
My DVD player in my living room doesn't play OGG, my car stereo doesn't play OGG, therefore why bother with it? They both play MP3 however. MP3 wins, game over.
Ogg might be the better technology, I'm not that familiar with the nitty gritty of these to even argue this point, my point is, MP3 has wormed its way into my car stereo, my home stereo, and my life as the only file format of music worth bothering with since any OTHER format will never leave my harddrive.
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Yes, absolutely, I've been trying to drill this into my wife's head for years, where you work is not your family, sure you like(d) working there, sure it's a good place to work, but when the chips are down they'd eat your young if it helped the bottom line.
She found it out in July, they sold out, no warning, not even a WEEK before they closed up shop they were spouting off on how they had some good contracts coming up, etc etc etc. Less than a week later she's being "laid off" to make matters even more lovely the bastards quit paying their share of the Cobra health insurance so on Sep 1 that went away too! (luckily for us Alabama has a state run group health plan for people losing cobra or other group coverage, and our premiums are only $790 per month, yes sarcasm is implied).
Now she's telling me how she's not getting emails every day from her friends (surprise remember how you said these people are like your family and they love you? well who's emailed you at all this week?). Not pretty to see a 29 year old woman have to learn such a hard lesson. Hey I learned it 4 years ago myself when I was 26 so I wasn't much better off.
Ok unemployment sucks, but this article is.. not that good but I digress.
:) Now I have a decent sized income bills are paid, and I get to play around with over 50 linux boxen hosting over 11,000 web sites.
I was unemployed 2 years ago on Oct 16th I knew it was coming, around March I realized (when quarterly earnings showed 1.9 million burned 4 million in the bank, can you say dot BOMB?). So I moved back to the small town I came from figuring it'd be easier to pay a $350 a month rent payment on unemployment than it would a $1300 a month payment in the Bay Area. I moved in July and telecommuted until the end.
I immediately started planning on starting my own business I was hoping to last until about Christmas 2001 but I got axed on Oct 16th instead. Oh well. Started my company, did some consulting here and there, made ends meet, got some customers, a few more, no more consulting was scraping by on the business, more customers, and more, and then tax time comes and I realize I owe uncle sam $13,000 in taxes (YIKES!).
Long story shorter, I get up when I want, go to bed when I want, leave when I want and stay at home with my 3 year old son (well he'll be 3 next week). I run my business from home.
I've always been a unix geek/linux nut/internet addict so why not make a business out of it, web hosting is the perfect job
My wife also just lost her job of over 10 years, company sold out and that's that (they were dying anyway so sell out or bankruptcy they chose sell out). So she stays home draws unemployment and plays with the kid too, a kid with two stay at home parents how lucky can he be? She also is doing some volunteer work.
When the unemployment runs out she might start her own business, she likes decorating cakes, or maybe open a daycare. Or get into real estate she likes going out and looking at nice houses, so why not sell 'em for a living. I told her don't look for another "job" do something you LIKE instead, the money isn't important the satisfaction is.
The economy truly sucks right now and I really would hate to be trying to find a job, but sometimes you might have better luck making your own job instead of looking for one.
There are days I _write_ and send well over 100 emails, as the owner of a medium sized web hosting company I send lots of email. I also recieve a LOT of email.
I wish I had a simple elegant solution to spam, the challenge/response is somewhat decent for normal users if implemented properly and used properly big IF there. Bayesian filtering is ok but again only if you work at it, plus it doesn't stop the spam taking up our bandwidth, just the end user from seeing it (if they decide to trust the filters).
Using spamcop and open relay blocklists helps some, we also have an inhouse rbl where we add ips that spam us so at least they can't get us again. But this doesn't stop it all, maybe 50% or so I guess.
In any one day our servers get millions of spam messages, and I only host about 12,000 websites, imagine the big guys.
You're kinda right, jabber is awesome too bad it's not more popular.
We use jabber in my company as a quick means to IM other techs/etc in the organization and it's great, the ability to have a chat window open and the other party leave and still chat and they come back later to what you wrote is extremely nice (I dunno if other IM's do this, I use Jabber and ICQ and that's all).
I think he might mean one of those AMD 5x86 133mhz I had one for a long time and I never overclock. It was a 486 basically.
There is 3 people in my house, me, my wife, and my son, and I am on that list with one phone number.
However I'm sure there is more than a few single people on there with multiple numbers so who knows whether it's more people than phone numbers on that list or the other way around.
On topic: verisign sucks, if you need SSL get geotrust, and I haven't registered a domain with these bastards after alternatives were allowed (enom.com/opensrs/etc).
. com. com (64.94.110.11) 56(84) bytes of data.
Off topic: (kinda)
OK I switched a test DNS server to use this OpenNIC, but it still resolves unknown domains to sitefinder shouldn't that quit working once I switch my hints to these guys?
[root@www45 named]# ping ns1.opennic.glue
PING ns1.opennic.glue (209.151.84.102) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from primary-ns.translator.cx (209.151.84.102): icmp_seq=1 ttl=241 time=63.7 ms
Ok so that works but
[root@www45 named]# ping asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfaf3232342f23f23r23r23ffff
PING asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfaf3232342f23f23r23r23ffff
Crap thought switching would stop that?
How hard could it be to make a file available on something like Kazaa and have a script that auto-pulls that list from the P2P network once so often and adds the ips to a local blocklist or firewall rule.
It's a little emphasis on the fact that bitching about not having access to the internet while you're SUPPOSED to be working is mighty... well silly.
As an employer I don't owe it to my employees to give them free access to the internet and external email. While they're on the clock they're supposed to be doing something relevant to a job, not browsing the web. Of course in my business it's a necessity for people to have access to the internet, otherwise there wouldn't be so much as a dialup available.
After several attempts at hiring people salary or hourly I got fed up and now everyone works remotely from home (or their other job hahaha) and pay is purely performance based. It was that or Indian tech support.
Yeah the owner is usually not privy to such information. Even as a small company the lure of foreign outsourcing is strong.
Last time I checked people get a job to WORK, a computer is a tool to be used for WORK. Don't come to WORK expecting to browse ebay, do that at home when you're not WORKing.
No wonder so much is going to India and other countries, those people WORK for the money they're paid and they do it for less money.
This is the very attitude causing companies to outsource the fact people expect their WORK to be more like entertainment than WORK. I don't like the outsourcing crap at all, I don't like seeing buddies laid off when their tech support job goes to India but then I see how their work ethic is (when they come to work for me) and I end up having to fire them because they're not doing any WORK but playing around all day. Unfortunately in the web hosting tech support game you have to give your employees internet access else I sure as hell wouldn't give anyone access who didn't need it to WORK.
Instead of oursourcing to India (which was soooo tempting) I moved to a performance based scale paying per instance rather than wages, so if you don't WORK you don't get paid, wanna browse Ebay all day? Go ahead but you won't get paid.
Nothing much new here, a friend of mine (in the US) makes his living with Everquest. A rather well off ceo of some smaller company pays him a stipend to be "on call" when the guy plays he only has a little bit of time so my friend has his character ready and waiting to do "fun stuff" if the dude dies he just tells my friend where his corpse is so he can do the drudge work of recovering it for him while the exec is away from the game.
On top of that, he gets paid to help people level up ($20 an hour), and sells items and premade characters (he told me about this single sword he sold for $1500 apparently it was quite hard to get). Last time I talked to him he'd just bought a (nearly new) minivan, put an addition on his house, and was not bitching about money problems, and his wife definitely doesn't make the income for those kinda upgrades to their life so while I didn't get a firm figure I know he's gotta be pulling in 35K at least to get by, and I suspect it's more.
He gave an offer of joining him, teamwork makes things more efficient and while I considered it I really didn't want to base my living on the whims of the online world (funny thought coming from the owner of a web hosting company).
You really have 2 choices:
Choice 1: suck it up
Choice 2: fight it, now this can be anything from only working 40, suing for overtime, quitting, or whatever.
That's really what it boils down to, rhetoric aside you can either fight the crap or take the crap.
Personally I got sick and tired of the crap, so when I knew layoffs were coming I welcomed it, used all the resources at my disposal to prepare to start my own business doing web hosting and when the axe came I was ready and waiting to do my own thing. Nearly 2 years later, I work at home, if I get pissed off I get up and leave on my motorcycle for a little while or pack the kid into the convertible and hit a DQ for some Blizzards, if I feel like taking some time off I pack up and go to the lake for a few days, if I want to go watch the Matrix Reloaded on release day at the 11AM showing (earliest we got) I just go. No time clock, no deadlines, no one standing over my shoulder (except my 2 year old who can be a slavedriver!). Can't be happier.
$50 for 1.5 mbit? good lord I'd commit murder to get 1.5 mbit for $50 per month!
I don't agree with an employer pulling my credit, but my last two jobs had this as part of the permissions I gave them on my application. I gave permission, neither company pulled my credit, they just asked permission.
Still don't agree with it but the choice between defending my principles and paying my bills is a quick choice. If you're unemployed you'll likely find your credit rating getting worse anyway.
That being said, I'm just glad I'm the owner of my own company now so I don't have any of these aggravations and no boss, other than my 2 year old son who stays home with me most days.
If China does it, we'll have to do it too, right now our space program is lacking and a good push by the "Reds" into space again will get us back into orbit faster than you can say "Star Wars Defense Initiative".
The US needs an "enemy" and China looks to be ready to give us the Yin for our Yang. I dont' man it in a bad way, but we need someone to "push" against who can push back.
And our space program needs a shot in the arm for once, not the balls.
Within a year or so PDA's will fall under this rule, since I remember reading somewhere the PS2 (I think it was) technically was over the allowed power.
1.5MEGAbits?
AND YOU'RE WHINING?
for $40-50 per month?
SHUT UP, GET OVER IT, AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT USE THE COMPETITION. MY GOD.
The whining is insane, OH I AM ONLY GETTING 1.5 MEGABITS NOW, OH WHOA IS ME. Good grief if you dont' like it LEAVE their service.
MAYBE the reason @home went out of business is giving away too much for the money, maybe if you're lucky your NEW provider won't go out of business since they have sense enough to charge a rate that's fair for the service.
I use a locally owned (AFAIK) cable modem solution, for $99 a month I get business class cable (1 static 8 dhcp IPs and can run servers).
:) SO I use the static IP for a secondary DNS for my company.
I looked and looked for a TOS/AUP on their site www.pclnet.net and couldn't find more than the "FAQ".
They annoy me on some things:
#1 can't post to usenet, just read it (WTF)
#2 ICMP is blocked at their core router, traceroute? ping? forget it.
#3 they know me by name and know that I have no less than 5 computers at any time, and they absolutely will not let me downgrade my service to basic residential. They know for a fact I'll setup linux with ip masq and run all the machines off of it
both as a seller and as a buyer, I average about 100 transactions a month, generally I spend about $1000-2000 a month and take in about a thousand on sales (I use my Paypal debit card a LOT).
I've only had a few small quibbles, mainly usage (like why one checking account I can do "instant transfers" from and my other account I can't!
I keep about $100-200 on my accounts (one for business and one for personal checking accounts). So far I've been happy with the service, I've been able to dodge the merchant account bullet (good god that crap is expensive), and I still get paid.
Of course the biggest amount I've ever bought or sold was about $400 so maybe I'm just small potatoes.
I took a unix programming class, one of the first commands we learned was "uptime" the server we were on was at around 3 months uptime, I'd never heard of no such thing!
.83alpha? .81? .87? good god I can't remember, finally got booted, thought it was neat, downloaded Slackware .97Beta (.99beta? maybe both it was a long time ago) all.. 33? 35? floppies and installed it, actually got X windows running, got it to use my modem to dial into the university computer. NO MORE LAB FOR ME, I could do it at home.
/dev/modem" while on my terminal I had "vi source" opened.
Downloaded Linux boot/root disks version uhm,
I gained extra credit when my teacher asked how'd I upload my source and I said "cat source >
I was hooked.
This is just too easy to accomplish most places. One place I worked you had to have a keycard to get in, dude stands around the door, as people come back from lunch, he walks in, grabs a laptop out of a conference room (they were gone for lunch) and just walks out.
Of course we all got the "security simply must be better" but no one really did much about it after a few days it was all as it was before.
I could give about 20GB a month in traffic, hey I know it ain't a "great deal" of bandwidth but it's something!
Hell I could probably go 40 or 50GB of traffic.
My last comment was marked "flamebait" so I'll try this again.
It doesn't matter which is "better" I don't see OGG car stereos, OGG home stereos, OGG portable players. We may, and when we do I'll be one of the first to give ogg a try then. Maybe I'm just a rare case but I don't JUST listen to music on my computer, I also like to listen to music in my car, in my living room, when I'm out working in the yard, and other times, and that's where Ogg loses, it can have the most awesome sound in the world, if I can't listen to it in my car or anywhere else BUT my computer it just doesn't matter.
Call it flamebait but that's simply how it is, when the day comes when I need to decide "MP3 or OGG in my system" then I'm gonna care a LOT which sounds better, until then it's a moot point, if I can't pop a burned CD full of ogg files into my home stereo/car stereo or dump a couple gigs of OGG to my portable player then I dont care which is better.
My DVD player in my living room doesn't play OGG, my car stereo doesn't play OGG, therefore why bother with it? They both play MP3 however. MP3 wins, game over.
Ogg might be the better technology, I'm not that familiar with the nitty gritty of these to even argue this point, my point is, MP3 has wormed its way into my car stereo, my home stereo, and my life as the only file format of music worth bothering with since any OTHER format will never leave my harddrive.
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Do not click here
Grimster