One of my favorite quotes (I forgot who said it): "If you are not liberal in your 20s, you have no heart, if you are not conservative in your 30s, you have no brain"
IBM has possibly the most impressive history on Earth of "Bad Marketing for Good Operating Systems". I mean, think about it, AIX rocks (although I see Linux passing it in x years), OS/2 ruled, and OS/390 defines stability in a way that no other OS will even approach in decades. Yet they cannot market them at all.
Now hardware, IBM knows hardware. They can make it, they can market it, and they can make money off it. Let them stick with what they do best and leave the rest to others. If they happen to be able to sell more hardware by helping someone else develop software for it, then it's better for everyone.
The switch to commercial use did happen and it's clear that we are all the better for it. Without that, most of us would not be online and there would be no Web, no Freenet, no Napster, and only closed, proprietary email systems like the old Prodigy.
IBM's LPAR (logical partitioning) technology has been around longer than ANY UNIX, let alone anything Sun has done. Let's not have any of this "first generation" garbage.:)
A pilot of another hijaacked plane crashed in a PA field rather then hitting another target in Pitt.
I reported that in #slashdot. It is what I hard from my roommate who heard it from her ex-bf who is a coast guard pilot. I cannot vouch for it being true, it comes from no official news source (as of this writing). I've also heard that it may have been shot down.
Finkployd
my prayers are with the victims and their families.
So by your weak interpretation of this law, any discussion remotly involving a major and significant event in modern history is off limits?
Sorry, but "If it weren't for religious/ethical complaints, the Nazi "scientific" experiments wouldn't have been noticed..." does not compare anyone or anything to hitler or the nazis. It is simply not even close to being within the relm of godwin's law.
My own personal opinion on godwin's law invocation lately is that it seems only to be used by those who's position is so weak that they need a technicallity to end and arguement quickly and declare victory. Sorry but I'm not impressed.
His point was valid and on topic, and did not in any way compare anyone to the nazies. Perhaps you should actually READ and UNDERSTAND godwin's law before you start invoking incorrectly.
Really??!! You mean thousands of cobol and natural programs running on our mainframe didn't need to be changed? Geeze, where the hell were you when I needed you? I wouldn't have put so much unpaid overtime in:)
SuSe is the ONLY really good distro for the IBM s/390. Marist College has one that is pretty outdated (and hard to install) and Redhat has a beta (alpha?) version out, but SuSe is by far what most people seem to be using currently. Perhaps there is some incentive for IBM to bail them out (or cut them off and encourage RH to speed up their deployment of the s/390 port)
Let me take a crack at some of your concerns. AIX has a nitch that I doubt linux can crack in the near future, clustering. Now I know everyone is going to scream "linux can cluster" at this but hear me out. Linux currently does not have SMP processing to handle what your average SP cluster can. Another issue in this market is filesystems, and while IBM's jfs has been released open source, the tools and utilities for it (where the true power lies for jfs) haven't been and exist only on AIX.
Another area where Linux is lacking is high quality enterprise compilers. Many scientific programs are still written in fortran (nuclear simulations, etc) and there is nothing available for Linux which can handle some of the larger applications that AIX and it's compilers can do easily (One thing IBM can really do well is write a compiler).
Linux is not the best UNIX variant, it's strength is that it is the most cross platform, but it is certainly not the best. I believe IBM plans to keep it's respective OSes popular in their nitch markets, while pushing Linux as a low cost cross platform solution. AIX will likely never run on any platform other than PPC (although it is arguable that OS/390 Unix is sort of an AIX variant running on the s/390).
Actually I would be suprised of OS/390 were running anywhere on that machine. Most likely it's running VIF (Virtual Imagining Facility, a stripped down version of the old VM) to control the linux images.
Stick with it! I'm doing the same as you right out of college and having a blast. Mainframes aren't going anywhere (sales are up 40% last I heard) and most of the systems programmers are close to retiring. We are going to be in high demand, my friend:)
Two things, (1) OS/2 is the only operating system that can IPL (boot) an s/390 mainframe and (2) if you think Linux is anywhere near usurping OS/390 then you need to do more research on OS/390. While I love Linux, it doesn't even approach OS/390 in terms of reliability, IO speed (meaning it doesn't make full use of the hardware, this will probably change eventually), fault tolerance, and batch processing.
I wouldn't doubt that IBM someday might put out their own distro, but in the mean time they have a nice potential revenue stream selling support contracts to mainframe shops who want to use it to replace existing unix and NT servers. Keep in mind these are customers who think nothing of dropping $500,000 a year on OS or application support. Linux has a shot at some success on the s/390, but it needs to become a bit more reliable to win over people who measure uptime in decades rather than years:)
Slashdot Mirror
Teens generally do not vote republician.
One of my favorite quotes (I forgot who said it): "If you are not liberal in your 20s, you have no heart, if you are not conservative in your 30s, you have no brain"
Finkployd
That would have been the IT services at the college I was attending (OTC if it gives any particular people a clue).
If it makes you feel any better, OTC is pretty much hated across the board by all the other three letter computer groups (CAC, OAS, etc)
Finkployd
IBM has possibly the most impressive history on Earth of "Bad Marketing for Good Operating Systems". I mean, think about it, AIX rocks (although I see Linux passing it in x years), OS/2 ruled, and OS/390 defines stability in a way that no other OS will even approach in decades. Yet they cannot market them at all.
Now hardware, IBM knows hardware. They can make it, they can market it, and they can make money off it. Let them stick with what they do best and leave the rest to others. If they happen to be able to sell more hardware by helping someone else develop software for it, then it's better for everyone.
Finkployd
Appearently "reasonable quality standards" do not pertain to the initial release.
Finkployd
I just heard what souded like an obscene phone call
finkployd
The switch to commercial use did happen and it's clear that we are all the better for it. Without that, most of us would not be online and there would be no Web, no Freenet, no Napster, and only closed, proprietary email systems like the old Prodigy.
Appearently someone has never heard of Bitnet
Finkployd
(as a side note: I don't wear watches, I find no need for them, I hate them almost as much as I hate cell phones and their users)
Geeze, you must hate alot of people. For such an silly reason too.
Finkployd
IBM's LPAR (logical partitioning) technology has been around longer than ANY UNIX, let alone anything Sun has done. Let's not have any of this "first generation" garbage. :)
Finkployd
this was because mainframes crash.
Sounds like you needed better trained systems programmers. I've yet to hear of a crash in any of the shops I'm familiar with (including my own).
finkployd
Server architecture has yet to even approach s/390 data i/o, and fault tolerance.
:)
When you can measure uptime in decades, then start comparing
Finkployd
NRA certified teachers? Thats like telling me i should listen to KKK Certified teachers.
Please expand on this. I would love to know how you equate NRA instructors with the KKK.
Finkployd
Vermont, not New Hampshire.
Finkployd
A pilot of another hijaacked plane crashed in a PA field rather then hitting another target in Pitt.
I reported that in #slashdot. It is what I hard from my roommate who heard it from her ex-bf who is a coast guard pilot. I cannot vouch for it being true, it comes from no official news source (as of this writing). I've also heard that it may have been shot down.
Finkployd
my prayers are with the victims and their families.
So by your weak interpretation of this law, any discussion remotly involving a major and significant event in modern history is off limits?
Sorry, but "If it weren't for religious/ethical complaints, the Nazi "scientific" experiments wouldn't have been noticed..." does not compare anyone or anything to hitler or the nazis. It is simply not even close to being within the relm of godwin's law.
My own personal opinion on godwin's law invocation lately is that it seems only to be used by those who's position is so weak that they need a technicallity to end and arguement quickly and declare victory. Sorry but I'm not impressed.
Finkployd
I invoke Godwin's Law.
His point was valid and on topic, and did not in any way compare anyone to the nazies. Perhaps you should actually READ and UNDERSTAND godwin's law before you start invoking incorrectly.
Finkployd
--News Flash Y2K was a hoax.
:)
Really??!! You mean thousands of cobol and natural programs running on our mainframe didn't need to be changed? Geeze, where the hell were you when I needed you? I wouldn't have put so much unpaid overtime in
Finkployd
SuSe is the ONLY really good distro for the IBM s/390. Marist College has one that is pretty outdated (and hard to install) and Redhat has a beta (alpha?) version out, but SuSe is by far what most people seem to be using currently. Perhaps there is some incentive for IBM to bail them out (or cut them off and encourage RH to speed up their deployment of the s/390 port)
Finkployd
Hear Hear!
Finkployd
Is IBM's RS/6000 not a PPC based system?
Finkployd
Let me take a crack at some of your concerns. AIX has a nitch that I doubt linux can crack in the near future, clustering. Now I know everyone is going to scream "linux can cluster" at this but hear me out. Linux currently does not have SMP processing to handle what your average SP cluster can. Another issue in this market is filesystems, and while IBM's jfs has been released open source, the tools and utilities for it (where the true power lies for jfs) haven't been and exist only on AIX.
Another area where Linux is lacking is high quality enterprise compilers. Many scientific programs are still written in fortran (nuclear simulations, etc) and there is nothing available for Linux which can handle some of the larger applications that AIX and it's compilers can do easily (One thing IBM can really do well is write a compiler).
Linux is not the best UNIX variant, it's strength is that it is the most cross platform, but it is certainly not the best. I believe IBM plans to keep it's respective OSes popular in their nitch markets, while pushing Linux as a low cost cross platform solution. AIX will likely never run on any platform other than PPC (although it is arguable that OS/390 Unix is sort of an AIX variant running on the s/390).
Finkployd
Thanks you the link, you are quite correct.
I'm a bit suprised they are not using this oppertunity to show off the new VIF product.
Finkployd
Actually I would be suprised of OS/390 were running anywhere on that machine. Most likely it's running VIF (Virtual Imagining Facility, a stripped down version of the old VM) to control the linux images.
Finkployd
Stick with it! I'm doing the same as you right out of college and having a blast. Mainframes aren't going anywhere (sales are up 40% last I heard) and most of the systems programmers are close to retiring. We are going to be in high demand, my friend :)
Finkployd
Why code in C when I can code in COBOL
:)
OS/390 has a very high quality C compiler. I've been using it for the last two years
Finkployd
Two things, (1) OS/2 is the only operating system that can IPL (boot) an s/390 mainframe and (2) if you think Linux is anywhere near usurping OS/390 then you need to do more research on OS/390. While I love Linux, it doesn't even approach OS/390 in terms of reliability, IO speed (meaning it doesn't make full use of the hardware, this will probably change eventually), fault tolerance, and batch processing.
:)
I wouldn't doubt that IBM someday might put out their own distro, but in the mean time they have a nice potential revenue stream selling support contracts to mainframe shops who want to use it to replace existing unix and NT servers. Keep in mind these are customers who think nothing of dropping $500,000 a year on OS or application support. Linux has a shot at some success on the s/390, but it needs to become a bit more reliable to win over people who measure uptime in decades rather than years
Finkployd