Slashdot Mirror
IBM Launches p690
edyavno writes: "IBM just announced the launch of their new high-end Unix server p690. It's based on its new Power 4 chip, and is in the same category as just announced Sun's SunFire 15K. It also includes some mainframe level features and can be used either as a single large server or divided into up to 16 "virtual" servers, running any combination of AIX 5L and Linux. Here's yahoo article, and here it is from IBM itself."
"Buy the new p690, with Fast Pipes!!"
Wonder why that pipe test was just released..... hmmmm.....
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
It's nice to see someone giving Sun a little competition in the "very high end" of the Unix spectrum.
Topher
XML causes global warming.
[sarcasm]But if you'll take a look, neither Photoshop Filter or Final Cut Pro benchmarks are even obtainable... obviously it pales in comparison to a Dual G4-800![/sarcasm]
I know the new IBM kit is supposed to go head to head against the new Sun kit, but if The Inquirer is correct this may be the last salvo in the Sun vs. IBM unix war. Of course, I take this with a HUGE grain of salt, but stranger things have happened (*cough* *cough* HP/Compaq).
It sure got killer specs, I wonder how fast it could run distributed.net clients
Adversus solem ne loquitor
"achieves leadership in business, scientific and Java performance benchmarks"
I had always been wondering what kind of system was needed to run Java apps at a decent speed.
The power4 is kicking everybody's ass on SPEC 2000. 783 SPECint2000 base and 1098 SPECfp2000 base. Check out the comparisons on Ace's Hardware.
It's not affordable... Even on a software developer's salary, I can't buy one... bah!
I guess I'll just have to wait six months before it comes down to the sub $3000 market...
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
Will it fit in my bedroom, and does it need special cooling?
I grabbed this from IBM's website (http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/pseries/hard ware/datactr/p690.html):
- Innovative, mainframe-inspired, datacenter-class UNIX
server.
- 8- to 32-way 64 bit SMP server utilizing the first ever
POWER4 dual processor on a chip which uses IBM advanced
silicon-on-insulator (SOI) copper technology.
- Up to 256GB of memory, 160 PCI slots and over 4.6TB of
internal storage.
- Supports up to 16 logical partitions (LPAR), helping to
consolidate workloads, reduce footprints and lower cost of
ownership.
- A dedicated Hardware Management Console that provides a
graphical user interface for configuring and operating the
system including a set of functions for managing LPAR
configurations
- State-of-the-art self-managing capabilities that improve
reliability, availability and serviceability (RAS) and help lower
costs.
- Packaging in a new 24-inch rack with an integrated power
subsystem which accommodates a pSeries 690 system and up
to four I/O drawers.
- AIX clustering and future to attach to SP systems.
It looks very good. I just wonder what you would use 160 PCI slots for?
At least maybe then the db wouldn't meltdown twice a day.
Just curious...
-
ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
These are both Motorola chips based on the same Power PC architecture, right? Will someone more informed than I am explain the differences between them, and explain why IBM is using Power 4's instead of G4's?
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
First off...from IBM's site:
:)
Self-healing architecture -- Built with technology from IBM's Project eLiza initiative, the p690 is the industry's only UNIX server that offers multiple layers of self-healing technologies that allow the server to continue operating, even through major failures and system errors.
Gaaah! I blew a hole through p690! But wait...it's...healing itself!
On a more serious note...which marketing direction is IBM taking on these things? I'm sure they're trying to sell at least some of their existing customers on these and keeping those customers on whatever OS they were running (AIX most likely). But for the new customers, are they pushing AIX harder than Linux? Are they actually pitching any Linux conversions to their existing AIX customers?
My sigs always suck.
The article makes some rather misleading comments, such as the stock price. . .
You can't directly compare stock prices without taking into account things like the number of shares outstanding.
For example, Sun has almost twice as many shares of stock out there, so even though it's stock price is lower, it's not quite as far off as it appears. (Market capitalization for IBM is $168B, and for Sun is $29B).
As things stand right now, I'd be very surprised if IBM made a bit for Sun, (although, as you say, stranger things have happened). IBM's been gaining in the Unix market for the past year or so, I think they'd be better off to wait a good bit longer before doing anything so drastic.
Topher
Well, I don't really believe it. There's another company that would probably be biding against IBM if they tried to buy Sun, and they've got significantly deeper coffers as well. (No, it's not MS.)
Besides, it just doesn't sound 'right.' Gut feeling is that it's just a rumour, no more.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
It'd be great if IBM did get Sun though - the first thing they'd do would be relicense all the "Sun Community Source" stuff as true Open Source. Then everyone could finally standardise on Java, and MS would be left dead in the water.
I think it was Channel One in boston, back when it was a BBS.
I can see this with some of these babies
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Regardless of Share prices I don'think that Sun is any worse off than any of the other big tech companies right now. Which is to say they are all hurting. With this in mind I don't think any of the major tech companies want to try and spend that much money with the way the market currently is. It would require a serious amount of cash to purchase Sun and with most companies in the tech sector announcing profit warnings and layoffs I don't see that anybody is ready for a merger of this size. Finnaly having been using Suns for years this just does not "feel" like a very Sun thing todo. It's just not them.
The AIX 5L release is "Linux-capable" - it should be able to run most "vanilla" Linux apps with recompilation.
That said, IBM has been pushing several of their AIX selling points into Linux, like their Journalling File System logical volume manager. Their system management tools are pretty good (no SMIT cracks, please) and they have good network management tools. I got out of the crystal ball business a while ago, but I imagine IBM would like to be spending their money "productizing" Linux on their platforms rather than supporting their own OS.
I'd say they're trying to take a piece of Sun's pie, and maybe try to keep some folks from moving to Win2K. Looks like a good price/performance system if you need that much to start with.
I love vegetarians - some of my favorite foods are vegetarians.
I realize that the power 4 is not exactly the same as the PPC that one might find in the Apple G4 series, but I'm curious about something that this touches on: if IBM has customers that might choose to run a linux virtual server on one of these beasts, they must have a java runtime available. I was wondering if, perhaps, this runtime was also available for linux/ppc. The only one that I'm aware of is the blackdown port, which I find lacking. I've seen that IBM has their own JDK for linux/x86. Do they have one for PPC? If not, why not?
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
Deeper than IBM or MS? In the IT industry? I don't see how that's possible, unless I'm missing somebody really obvious.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
I, personally, am very excited about this new hardware. If you've seen how they have done it internally (and I'm only a consultant) you'll see that it's a pretty big cahgne for them.
IBM's comparing their new server against the wrong Sun server. Here's why:
For unmatched UNIX system performance, the pSeries 690 can scale to a 32-way symmetric multiprocessor (SMP) helping to provide the scalability required to drive a UNIX datacenter.
A Sun Fire 15k contains up to 106 processors (72 with max i/o), a Sun Enterprise 10k contains up to 64 processors, and a Sun Fire 6800 contains 24 processors. Honestly this IBM server should be compared with either the 10k or 6800. It just can't scale as high as either the 10k or the 15k.
LPAR support for up to 16 UNIX or Linux partitions
Humm, first generation unix partitioning from IBM, or 5th generation partitioning from Sun (with help from Cray early on). BTW, a 10k can be in 16 partitions. No it doesn't require a domain to contain 4 processors--that's the max. A single board domain can have 1 i/o card, 1 cpu and some memory--typically a gig. The 15k and 6800 are similar, although the cpu/memory cards are typically maxed. It is *very* rare to find a company who would buy these sorts of systems to not max them out.
AIX 5L offers support for systems with up to 32 processors and 256 GB memory.
Wow, Solaris scales to 106 procesors in a single domain, with at least 1/2TB of memory. Besides, I'd bet there are more apps for Solaris than AIX.
*Note all of the quotes are from IBM's web page regarding the p690.
"If you insist on using Windoze you're on your own."
iMacLinux has several articles up about this. Looks like they scooped both slashdot and yahoo.. :)
Hello in there! He's obviously talking about eMachines.
--- Linux R00lz!
AIX 5L is designed to run Linux apps with a recompile, or AIX apps without. Find me a Linux box that I can stuff 32 dual-core processors into.
Unless you're insane I don't believe you're going to tell me that there are more Solaris apps than Linux apps. AIX 5L runs the latter kind.
Besides, IBM techies have usually struck me as better qualified than Sun guys, although both are leagues ahead of almost any other company's.
Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.
>absolutely nothing at all to do with the PPC
... apart from the fact that they share the same fucking instruction set, genius.
I was one of 2 industrial designers involved on this project. We determined the outward appearance and graphics for the thing. It's real nice to see something you designed finally come on the market. Woo!
Yes, they are both PPC chips but the POWER4 is made by IBM. The PPC consortium was founded in the early 90s by Apple, IBM and Motorola. The main difference between them is that the POWER4 is a server chip while the G4 is a consumer chip. Because of this, cost, performance etc are VERY different. Basically the POWER4 is much better than the G4 but it costs a hell of a lot more.
with six 668MHz processors, 24GB memory and half a terabyte's worth of SSA disk arrays. Runs Oracle 8i faster than any other machine I've ever seen in my entire life. Only cost a little over a quarter million dollars too :-).
What I hear is that IBM would be happy to get control of Java. I can't think of another company that would have as much to gain from gaining control of Java as IBM. Except for MS and they would just kill it.
Note: I happen to work for IBM. This post is pure speculation on my part and is not the opinion of IBM.
Lasers Controlled Games!
>I wonder when Compaq will release EV7 SPEC scores.
the ev7? Who's going to buy into a dead end?
>The POWER4 will be smacked distinctly down to
second place
erm, somehow, I don't think so.
Just don't forget the old beast.
Yes they are specialized. and quite good to see at work.
They also were the firsts to come out with a WORKING 32 CPU. At the time where SMP for 2 proc in NT was considered as a Technical Mastercraft.
(*Nix 8)
And I think they have "some" money 8)
(something like 9874632 * 10^36 what I'll ever earn 8|)
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
Except for HP, you mean?
I'm running one of these right now as my MASQ/NAT box... You should see how quickly fortune executes...
;-)
I think somebody must be underestimating IBM's resources here, but the only other companies I could strain to think of that would buy Sun right now in terms of fit would be Fujitsu, Siemens, or GE. The first one has (I think) the best fit given its investment in SPARC, but I have no idea of whether they could or would want to buy the company. Siemens is (I think) the only big European contender to anything like this, while GE can, as always, do whatever the heck it likes.
Babar
What makes you think IBM would change Licensing? Obviously slashdot kiddies aren't the customers who keep companies in business, so why would IBM care what you want?
isn't it an all-scrip offer?
Lets work him the real way.
1 / Send one to Anand Tech
2 / take a picture while Anand lose consciousness seeing the beast in his yard (Tom Hardware compatible 8)
3 / wait 5 days
4 / Learn at least that it IS possible to play Quake @ 1600*1200*32bits @ 1Gfps in software mode. 8)
Gosh, someone gives me a joystick 8)
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
I hate to say it... but imagine a.... nah... I don't wanna go there.
[Connection closed by foreign host]
I would like to er.... uh, Hmmm...
Eggplants!
Ace
No, hmmm, wow, that's something to think about. Geez, I wonder what that would be like...
~ now you know
I don't see any announcement about Free/Open/NetBSD running on the machine.
Could it be that those operating system are, in fact, dying?
But unfortunately the Q was undermined by its inability to think outside of the x86 PC and primarily by its moron-of-a-CEO Michael Capellas.
Compaq Alpha EV8
simply go to this page, select the type and number of each server that you want and proceed to check out.
Remeber: Do not click twice!
So it's not 64-way.
Just for everyones information, this is something BIG inside here. They've been coming over the PA and telling us about it, how great it is, and everything. The stories on the internal news sites are flying, touting the new system (which btw is made right here in Poughkeepsie)
They even celebrated by giving all the employees free cake today (from 11:30-1:00)
mmmm. free cake.
...it's not surprising that he should take this as an opportunity to sell Solaris.
Please, let me know when I can compile Linux native apps on Solaris and when Solaris supports some kind of better packaging system (RPM? Apt-get?) and maybe then you'll have a right to bash IBM.
(I work for Sun. I run Linux/Windows. Thank you, that is all.)
AIX 5L is designed to run Linux apps with a recompile, or AIX apps without. Find me a Linux box that I can stuff 32 dual-core processors into.
./confiugre;make;make install done.
Humm, recompile, eh? Yeah, if you're going to recompile, most things that I have run under Linux also work under Solaris...except for some things that expects certain things in the kernel, or so other Linux specific quirk. Yeah, I've compiled tons of GNU apps on a Solaris machine.
But if you don't want to recompile and are running on Solaris x86, then you can use lxrun.
Yeah, I'd venture to say there are more Solaris apps than Linux apps. How often do you see commerical support for Linux? Yes, it's increasing, and now when you talk with a commerical vendor, most have at least heard of Linux. Some even have software to sell you. If you're talking GNU or Open Source (i.e. gpl, lgpl, artistic, bsd licenses), then sure there's more...but ya know, typically those apps aren't Linux specific.
This doesn't mean I dislike Linux, or am bashing it. I have used Linux for years, and knowing it got my foot in the door as a sys admin, and helped me figure out how to admin HP/UX and Solaris. Yes, Linux is far more useful today than it was a few years ago, supports more hardware, but internally it hasn't fully stepped into the big leagues...it's getting closer thanks to the larger memory support and journaling filesystems.
So, unless I'm insane, could you please prove me wrong in this?
"If you insist on using Windoze you're on your own."
Because IBM doesn't particularly like MS. If you kill MS's OS and Office monopoly cash cow, MS is a bit player [pun intended].
;)
MS killed Lotus 1-2-3 by giving it away basically for free with MS-Word as "Office." IBM could then give away Office, OpSys, Browser, Server and dev tools free with Aptiva. End result, MS loses 60-90% of its marketshare and monopoly pricing power.
IBM sells services, then hardware, and lastly software. IBM could care less if it had to drop the $100 mil or so it makes (or grosses) on Lotus Smartesuite or whatever. It still has Domino, which is the only _widely_ used program it has in the end user/consumer market. Via Voice and the other stuff are not widely used.
If software is free, people can spend that money on more hardware, or someone to set it up/run it for them. Service is a competitve business, and IBM is always competitive (post 95's damn MWAVE modems anyway
http://www.spec.org/osg/jbb2000/results/res2001q3/ jbb2000-20010809-00067.html
But I don't know where you can get it.
You might also want to look at P/E ratios. IBM is 20.70 while Sun is still up at 31.03. Also while you are right that you can't directly compare stock prices, you might want to take a look at the charts for the last year for each company. Sun has been dropping, shedding over 80% of its value. IBM has remained relatively steady, bouncing around between $80-120.
Lasers Controlled Games!
I joined IBM e-business July '00 b/c I wanted to go to the forefront of Linux development and deployment. I was recently told to study so I can join up to 7 Beowulf cluster deployments. Then I learned of an upcoming hands-on Linux zSeries class in Poughkeepsie. And now this! Man, this has been a great day.
Intelligent Life on Earth
Write it in C/C++ instead.
This is just another step towards the computer domination of the world. Is anyone else reminded of Terminator 2, in which whenever they shot the bad guy, he'd just "heal" himself? IBM will be responsible for the Next World Order!
Buy a copy of SuSE's iSeries distro: http://www.suse.de/us/products/susesoft/iseries/
do u get AOL CD with this machine? :)
Humm, first generation unix partitioning from IBM, or 5th generation partitioning from Sun
IBM's AIX partitioning code (originally introduced in the SP frames) predates Sun's earliest attempts by at least two years.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
What gets me is that the $2,037,674 configuration comes with a grand total of not one, but TWO, yes TWO (I know it sounds unbelievable) 18GB hard drives! WOW!
shouldn't it be called the T-1000 instead of the p690?
"Holy shit! It's healing itself!"
"Have you seen this boy?"
So, what's the world's least powerfull Unix server (in recent history)? Does it run Linux too?
This is your sig. There are thousands more, but this one is yours.
IBM's LPAR (logical partitioning) technology has been around longer than ANY UNIX, let alone anything Sun has done. Let's not have any of this "first generation" garbage. :)
Finkployd
I wonder if they will make a P/690, as they did a P/390 from the big iron S/390 before... That was a stripped down, rather "cheap" ($10,000 or so) S/390 system on a single PCI card which you could plug into your Intel PC.... If only I could afford a used one of these (read: I want one of these from eBay :)
So, it looks like there is a lot of IBM fans and Sun bashers here.
...
I looked on IBM site a little and some things are not clear to me.
>Playing a pivotal role in the success of the p690 is IBM's
>AIX 5L, the most open UNIX operating system in the
>world.
Its so open that you cant see its source.
IBM probably does not count linux and bsd's into unix.
But i cant see how they forgot Solaris.
If nothing else, sun will let you look at its source unlike IBM.
>The ability of a server to sense
>a failing component such as a processor, cache or memory
>and take the part off-line while maintaining operation is
>critical in today's e-business environments -- and it's
>standard equipment with the p690.
Nothing about adding processors and memory while computer is running.
Did they forgot to mention it or they cant do it?
>.... rack drawer containing one to four processor modules
>
>Each of the multichip modules (MCMs) that power the
>pSeries 690 contains either four or eight POWER4 microprocessors,
>packaged on four chips. 19-inch wide rack drawer units, such as tape drives, can be
>mounted in IBM 7014-T00 or 7014-T42 racks.
Ufff.
If i understand this correctly
they have 4 modules X (4 chips X 2 cores) = 32 cores ?
And not 32 processors X 2 cores = 64 as it was mentioned earlier on Slashdot.
>Planned availability for all configurations except 24-way
>POWER4 and POWER4 Turbo is December 14, 2001. The
>24-way configurations will be available April 25, 2002.
So, can i pay one and take it home, or pay one and wait 2 and 6 months?
>IBM is announcing its intent to provide an exciting new IBM
>Capacity Advantage offering for the pSeries 690 that
>allows for rapid dynamic activation of installed inactive
>processors and memory to existing partitions without disrupting
>applications.
AND
>Capacity Advantage - helps customers manage unpredictable
>growth with pre-installed processing power and
>flexible storage offerings
So, sometime next year, if we are lucky,
we can pay for 16cpu/16GB computer with 32cpu/32GB installed.
And when we need them we just pay for the rest and activate them.
That's also one mean, proven, advanced, motherfu_____ mainframe technology.
Why did they introduced this now?
You cant get it for 2-6 months.
You have to wait 6-? months for dynamic LPARs.
IBM is proud with
a built-in service processor,
chipkill memory,
hot-plug pci slots,
redundant fans and power
and above all ability to take cpu/memory of line.
And plan for sometime late next year to enable activation of previously installed processors.
Whoooaa !
People who bought StarCats must be pissed of.
It's light years ahead of SUN pathetic offerings.
Starfire can hot plug cpu/memory boards and add it to domain for at least 4 years.
Aside of this they only have redundant hot plugable
backplane, clock generator and system processor.
But we all know that IBM is using proven, tested mainframe technology and
SUN is newcomer.
And that is almost all.
I will use this opportunity to mention,
one
and
only,
most advanced,
logical,
easy to use,
winner of many independent IDE comparations,
IBM's pride,
last of generation started 15 years ago
VISUAL AGE FOR JAVA
shortly known as
"tool with brain".
Too bad IBM will not develop it any more.
And replace it with something that actually works.
And to share one more of my frustrations.
- DB2 -
The only database that i managed to kill doing alter table from "Control center".
Increasing varchar(20) to varchar(25).
And kill not gui but DB2 server itself.
And The Only RDBMS i know of that can't execute procedural extension of SQL.
(I don't count translating it into c, compiling, making dll and calling that dll from dbms)
After Informix, Oracle, MS-SQL it is disappointing.
Damn, i even miss Interbase.
Thank You for reading.
If you happen to purchase a p690 and do want to run linux on it, be sure to go to linuxppc64.org and pick up drop14.
Just works....
Hey, I can make 8 LPARS running linux and then Beowulf them together...
WOW!
Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
If the past decade, and especially the past few years have thought us anything, it's that it is no longer about what feels right, if it ever was.
And any company but especially a tech company couldn't care less about your feelings of loyalty and 'right', or those of their empolyees, if it impacts their bottom line.
In the capitalist economy, the ever shrinking margins have long since squeezed conscience out of the corporate picture.
that the Alpha 21364 is not here to provide the Power4 with a worthy competitor.
At least it sets a standard of performance so that Itania (cubic Zirconia?) cannot be simply passed off as "great" just as they are.
Intel will have some real hard work to do to match the Power4, which not only has some good processing speed, but some BW to memory that should propel to the top of the heap in some benchmark categories.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
I'm drunk.
IBM, Digital (sorry, Compaq) and HP can happily toast the pants off Sun in any benchmark there is.
Total bragging rights go to the PowerPC4, the Alpha, the PA-RISC.
So, why does Sun have so much market share?
Two simple reasons. It's reliable, and it's cheap.
OK, I'll justify that. When you buy a box from Sun, you give it a power cable, a network cable, you fire it up and it works. (OK, this magic is done by a sysadmin. But it's a commodity sysadmin. Because *everybody* knows how to make a Solaris box work) So, It's reliable.
It's also cheap. Sun sold you a box. They didn't *give* you a box in return for unspecified (but expensive) "services". You're not tied in for years. Companies don't like being tied to multi-billion dollar bullies.
Here's a test: Ask Sun to sell you an E450. Then, ask HP to sell you an L-series. Once you've bought it, I *bet* you get fewer solicitations from Sun for "consultancy" than you get from HP/IBM/...
Sun build reliable, fast, affordable kit. Then, they support it. That's all they do,
IBM/HP/Compaq/ make faster, more expensive, less affordable kit. Then they nail your management to the floor with incessant 'Services' crap.
Before you all correct me, *yes* I do know about real computers. I work with the things. And I'd happily trade CPU performance for bus throughput any day.
I'd love to see an IBM box running Solaris...
Is the 16 way version actually only 2 chips?
[Is not a package 4 x 2 Proc?].
Is is it 16 packages? I am confused, what exactly counts as a chip in one of these beasts?
Do the following really mean anything? SCSA MCP CCSA CCNA
--I'm not actually after an answer!
I have to say that the power 4 is and experimental chip like Merced implemntation of Intanium, they use instruction grouping and chip multiprocesing in .18um. 115w for 2 chips is pentium 4 clas (less than +60W per chip!) beat the clock (+1 ghz). I gess the good part of Power 4 is the supreme execution of the release 0 chip. Intanium 2 should be better with Power4+ taking the lead again. That mean there will be choose int the cpu market for a while, and that's VERY GOOOOOOOOOOD!
I *know* that IBM has looked at buying Sun in the past, in the same way that they have looked at Apple. If you look at IBM's big aquisitions over the past ten years or so, they have purchased companies which have key technologies that they are lacking or just lagging behind. I'm not sure that purchasing Sun actually gets them that much except the control of Java. I don't think that they'd want another Unix (but I'm not a big Solaris fan) and they probably don't really want Sparc technology. Purchasing Sun to get control of Java seems extreme.
The more interesting rumour/suggestion is that IBM buy EMC. If they bought EMC, they would have even more dominance in the data centre..
I did somewhere that there was some special rules about Sun stock that protected them from hostile takeover.
I have no idea whether such a thing is possible, and even if it isn't, it probably would not prevent a volunteerly merger.
You are right. A short pipeline is a good thing, but to go really fast you have to have a longer pipeline. Copper and SOI can only get you so far. That is why POWER4 has a 14-stage pipeline.
"The 680 kicked the crap out of the SunFire 6800 in the Spec JBB benchmarks."
Yes, the p680, running a 64-bit JVM, did beat the 6800's 32-bit JVM score.
The 6800, on the other hand, beat the crap out of the previous IBM score, which was running a comparable 32-bit JVM.
A 32-bit JVM can only address 4 GB of memory. Java has to do garbage collection. The longer you can defer garbage collection, the higher your benchmark score. With a 64-bit JVM addressing 96 GB of RAM, you can defer garbage collection for the length of the benchmark run.
Also, I would bet that when Sun runs SPECjbb using the 1.4 JVM (64-bit), they will produce 6800 results very similar to, and perhaps better than, the p680. Also, if you note at www.spec.org, a 24 CPU HP Superdome scored 146,825 on SPECjbb using a 32-bit JVM. When HP runs this with a 64-bit JVM, they will probably exceed 200,000, crushing both IBM and Sun.
In short, if you are using SPECjbb to estimate performance for a planned J2EE appserver, you would be an incompetent fool to use a 64-bit JVM run, unless you know your appserver used a 64-bit JVM, and most (if not all) do not.
As for using TPC and SPEC, Gartner says this will cause over a 60% error in sizing. Not real smart to use such benchmarks when dealing with $1M machines.
"But until there's an independent authority that test boxes without bias"
Actually all you need is independent certification of the benchmark. Oracle Applications Standard benchmark is independently certified, and it can be used to effectively compare database systems. It is a much more thorough benchmark than TPC-C.
And speaking of TPC benchmarks, what about TPC-H? IBM has a pretty decent 128 CPU SP2 result. However, the Sun 6800's CPUs are exactly twice as fast as the SP2's CPUs, and got exactly twice the performance per CPU, and both systems were running IBM's DB2 database.
Oh, and by the way, running Oracle 8.1.6 on the PeopleSoft 8 General Ledger benchmark, a 24 x 750 MHz Sun Fire doubled the 24 x 450 MHz S80's result. And on the most recent runs, a 6 x 750 MHz CPU Sun Fire result was 2.6 times a 6 x 668 MHz pSeries result. Oh, but IBM runs Oracle faster right? Maybe on TPC-C, but not on PeopleSoft. Why is there such a difference?
Every vendor's systems have a "sweet spot" and do well on certain benchmarks. So when you evaluate systems, you need to use a whole bunch of benchmarks, and I would recommend throwing out the extremes because they essentially are statistical outliers. Those corner cases will rarely translate to real-world performance.
In terms of Sparc? No, the current technology isn't all that exciting but the roadmap Sun have told customers about is interesting and if IBM don't have the technology to equal it they might be interested in buying. IBM, though, have been far in front of just about anyone else in terms of hardware for quite some time.
In terms of storage? I'd suggest that if the Compaq/HP thing goes through and HP find that Storageworks is too big a lump to swallow (there are lots and lots of really big companies using said disks) they might shed it to market. Colleagues and I have have speculated that IBM might happily swallow that chunk to give itself some high end storage (in versastor) now that Sun's umped into bed with Hitachi (which as a sun admin I'm happy about, I looked at hitachi storage a few months ago and it rocked!).
Lots of 'ifs'
$0.02
K
Well, well, well; three holes in the ground...