The great thing about business or government or anywhere that isn't the users' home... "Use this computer. Or you're fired".
Migrating users isn't that difficult, basic desktop usage of Windows, MacOS or Linux is mostly portable. Anyone who can't learn how to do very basic things on another OS (I'm not talking about system administration here, but typing and printing memos) doesn't deserve their job. Sometimes people just have to learn and adapt to change, it is one of the requirements of being a living thing.
No, not at all... but when I was done with my academia, I began working with Internet technologies so I understand both worlds, the origins of the Internet, and also understand that stepping away from the elitest (you may attach a value judgement to the term "elitist", i.e., it is a bad thing... do not assume that others do) academic past is both the key to the Internet's success... and the cause of most of its problems.
... action from the last vestiges of elitism and arrogance that helped the Internet stay small and academic before the plaque of commercialism was allowed access in the early 90s.
Ahhh, the good ol' days, when the Internet was young, and closed to only the educated, and information was free to anyone who could pay tuition or get a grant/scholarship... all this open and free sharing of information, regardless of the IQ of the participant. I'm tellin' ya, we never should have let the stupid vote.
Sun confuses me, I can't quite get a handle on their business philosophy. This kind of decision seems like the random flailing of a dieing animal to me.
I don't think having a well-designed interface is equivalent to being dumbed down. Most modern operating systems have some sort of graphical user interface as their main user interface, with varying levels of text-based UI managed by the GUI. This makes most modern operating systems more powerful and capable, empowering users and allowing them to be more intelligent... not the other way around.
I don't think Debian deserves to be exclusively associated with high levels of clue in their user base. This may be a security blankey that some hold on to in order to feel elite, but I don't think it is fair or true. Red Hat, Mandrake, and other distributions with graphical installation front-ends may be more accessible to new users, but that does not mean the power users of those distributions are any less intelligent than Debian users.
Besides, if I want to feel like I'm really stretching my brain, I install Gentoo or a BSD. Debian (aside from Progeny, RIP) has always seemed like a feature-lacking Linux distro to me.
I'm slightly afraid that you didn't intend that to be humorous...
The glass isn't half empty...
on
Water Computing
·
· Score: 3, Funny
... its half full of beowulf clusters of water computing power.
I couldn't resist, sorry.
As we get closer and closer to microscoptic or at least very small computers, how long until the inevitable complex systems of neural nets combined with tiny computing devices self-organizes into something with capabilities outstripping an expert system... and into something like SkyNet in the Terminator movies?
The self-organization of a complex system into a self-aware artificial intelligence is a chaos theory wet dream.
Are the people whose machines are infected considered "in possession" of the virus, since it now resides on their hard drive?
Fear the case law.
If Monkeyboy Ballmer was a lawyer, he'd be ranting "PRECENDENT PRECENDENT PRECEDENT" right now. Dangerous laws are the ones written so open that any meathead judge can come along and pass judgement, despite not having any clue whatsoever in the issue at hand.
Those viruses almost exist, by the way. Many of the new viruses getting out (about 4 new ones a day) spread through P2P apps and drop files that look like porn. Its not too much of a stretch to change the filename from hotlesbiansdoingit.mpg to hot16yearoldlesbiansdoingit.mpg, add an addressbook entry for a law enforcement contact, and THEN spam.
I like to pretend that/. is about interesting news, perhaps even stuff that matters. I like seeing informative articles about things like Mac OS X because it helps educate me and get me past my innate prejudice against Apple and previous versions of Mac OS. If Apple would wake up about hardware, I might even buy a couple of the OS, and that is largely due to the clue I've gained from/.
I use Linux, Solaris, Windows, *BSD, etc. The "Windows Sucks!" mantra may be prominent on/., but isn't law. Deviation might get you modded down, though =)
I believe the US has ratified the Council of Europe Convention on Cybercrime, as has Canada. This treaty requires that signatories create criminal offences for possession of viruses or other "devices" designed to damage data/networks. I haven't read the whole damn thing yet, but doing time for actually possessing virus code isn't that far away.
As far as law enforcement is concerned, go ahead and think about it... the national security types are who you need to worry about =)
When is ThinkGeek getting Tin Foil hats with a stylish Tux logo?
xcdroast is an example that (to my knowledge) doesn't attempt this. Is it popular? I don't know, it probably is among people burning on *NIX platforms. It is certainly production, I use of for archiving of data, creation of installation disks for testing of new operating system releases, and that sort of thing in the workplace.
I assume the burning software I use and have used under Windows has "drag and drop" features, but I never use them. As per my other post to (another?) AC, I tend towards directory tree displays. I've never used the "drag your files onto the cd burner" method that is in XP, and I've never used a burner under MacOS. When I do burn, it is almost exclusively ISOs (I'm one of the evil people that insists on downloading ISOs of distributions rather than do FTP installs) or I create the directory structure that I want burnt onto disk and then burn that.
Other examples in the windows world of apps that don't attempt (to my knowledge) "drag and drop" burning are clonecd (which I believe emphasizes burning images or doing copies from cd to cd through a very simple GUI), and fireburner (I believe it is similar to clonecd in that it emphasizes images). I don't have other examples from doing a quick survey among some friends.
Roxio's software is probably the prime cullprit in the 'bastardized "pseudo-desktops"' class of burning apps you comment on. GnomeToaster has some drag and drop features, but I don't tend to use that application much.
I can see your point, however you have to acknowledge that portability of skills from OS version to version is not something Apple does exclusively. I've never had a significant challenge with any Windows operating system, the central metaphors and functions have been largely the same since Windows 95. I know that isn't a very long time, but I don't regard the effort required to relearn how to drive the OS to be significant. Maybe I just have more time on my hands to waste, but I honestly don't consider Windows, Explorer, etc to be anywhere close to challenging. I don't disagree with your goals of efficient computer use, but I also think that users should be expected to learn.
*NIX GUIs on the other hand vary widely. The attempts are standardization, such as CDE, have been awful, IMO. Apple definitely gets the nod over the CDE folks for GUI design, whether or not I personally care for the Finder or other trends as Apple developed their desktop from the ancient Mac days in the 80s. I think CDE is a perfect example of a bad standardized GUI, and when I have the option (which is almost always) I use another GUI on my desktop *NIX platforms. For example, I tend to standardize on GNOME. It works well enough on Solaris to be favored on that environment, and I use it on Linux unless I need to be very resource conscious (at which point I default to Blackbox or Fluxbox).
I am quite aware of the common feeling among those that prefer MacOS: "why should I have to relearn? I use a computer to meet goals and accomplish a task". Perhaps what it comes down to is the learning of new systems, being exposed to new ideas in UI design, and constantly adding to experience with the myriad options is one of my goals in an of itself. Might be a waste of time for you, but I'd rather be learning that (useless?) information.
I'm not an expert in MacOS, so I might as well make sure that is clear now. Feel free to write me off as talking out of my ass if you haven't already =)
I use computers for far more than playing games and installing Linux. I am by no means a "gamer" or Linux hobbyist. My interaction with computers is a bit above that level, but not into the realm of GUI design guru.
Its probably best that we agree to disagree. I don't particularly care for the (older) MacOS GUI, and my interaction with it (usually in the context of education settings) did not give me much respect for the powers of the OS. Same can be said for Windows.
I don't use "drag and drop" functionality of burning software, so I can't really comment on the common implementation of that feature. I use burning software under Linux, Windows, or whatever I have to, and I tend to use the features that focus on the old (old not necessarily being bad) directory tree metaphor. I suppose that my own reasoning should label the directory tree as "patronizing" since it really takes inodes or other filesystem features and displays the information in a way I am experienced in understanding. That being said, I wouldn't be adverse to learning a new metaphor.
You are all missing the point. The argument I've presented is exactly that proposed by governments around the world, case in point: Canadian Government's Lawful Access Consultation Document.
That being said, the fact is, whether or not you choose to believe it, that criminals, terrorists, etc etc are using new technologies to communicate and legislation for the new techologies tends to lag behind that for existing and well established technologies such as POTS. Governents know this, and legislation such as CALEA seek to bridge that gap. What we need to be vigilant about is to ensure that mistakes made in existing legislation are not propagated for the new.
We must ensure that civil liberties and human rights are maintained while allowing law enforcement to protect the rights of the people. Retaining logs at the ISP level does not equate with disclosing logs to law enforcement agencies. I don't know what legal hoops LEAs in the UK must jump through to arrange disclosure, but there are legal tests that must take place and judicial involvement to ensure that the rights of the "person of interest" are maintained.
Those of you modding my original comment down, or refusing to mod it up because you don't like what I said despite it being informative (it is, if you don't think that is the stance that government is taking and their publicly stated perspective, then you are fooling yourself), you should check your assumptions and think very hard on whether you are capable of thinking objectively. Information which is distasteful to you can be just as valid and informative as that which coincides with your world view. Think outside the box, try devil's advocacy some time, you might find it opens your mind so you are actually thinking, not just regurgitating what you've been taught.
A linux mag should do a photoshoot of her in something almost-not-there and all the geektoys. That could quite possibly cause the/. community to explode.
[That is the queue for some politically correct and/or sensitive people to chime in with: "not all/.ers are men and/or like women and/or like porn and/or like linux and/or like foo]
God forbid you should design your OS to treat a cd-burner as a *gasp* cd-burner, i.e., writable removable media. Is that part of MacOS's fabled "ease of use"? Taking existing concepts, diluting them so they are no long viewed as what they are, then considering this something "creative"? A cd-r is just removable media that can be written to. What is so conceptually challenging about that?
I get the idea from your comment that Apple's guide could be subtitled "How to Treat Users like Morons". I may have to read it just in case the representation isn't fair.
The problem is that the rapid proliferation of new technologies, i.e., Internet, wireless, PCS, etc, is leaving law enforcement and national security agencies in the dust. Without new laws they simply cannot address new threats or criminal activity that use those new communication methods. Is this a threat to civil liberties? Hell yes, but a little thing happened last year in September that pushed civil liberties to the background for the "Free World".
The new technologies make it very difficult to allow agencies to develop the suspicion further surveilance requires as an antecedant. Traditional communications did not include the same reasonable expectations of privacy that we have today. A phone call always required you to be tied to a handset on the wall, with the possibility of being overheard. The availability of privacy for the average citizen and the average criminal has increased dramatically, and this is the only (public) way that the law enforcement and national security agencies know how to handle it.
Is this right? Is this a Bad Thing for the long run? Quite possibly. You also have no "long run" if you get blown up in a terrorist attack or murdered by someone who couldn't be caught because their ISP refused to cooperate.
I didn't say "unsuccessful". Success is relative, not an obsolute and finite thing to be accomplished. Even unprofitable organizations can be considered successful. However, Microsoft's dominance of the desktop market, shear wealth (what are their profit percentages for every software license sold?), and "mindshare". I hate that term, but it aptly describes an inportant concept. The mainsteam is all about Windows, and since that is Microsoft's core target audience you have to give them credit for being the most successful desktop OS.
The server market, on the other hand, is a completely different matter. Neither Apple nor Microsoft rule the roost in that segment.
Apple used to be the standard for educational institutions from K-12 and up. Back in the day it was all about Apples. The geeks in their late 20s and 30s should remember those days well, Apple IIc and IIe were the desktop machine available in the computer labs. They only "recently" got replaced by Windows boxes... Apple had the crucial education market locked up, and were in the faces of many of us growing up.
It didn't do them much good. Whether it was features, price, compatibility, overall usefullness, or some Evil Microsoft Trick, Apple lost this market.
Damn straight! Only natural-born Canadians should be able to be lazy and live parasitically off the rest of us. Is it wrong to force an existing citizen to finance the education and training of another citizen through taxes? Socialists! We're all socialists! Next thing you know, we'll start getting crazy ideas about universal health care.
I don't think anyone should be able to "live parasitically off the rest of us". I'm not in favor of a welfare state. And no, we're not all all Socialists, but it seems like the majority of voters in Eastern Canada think they are and vote accordingly. I'd rather have the choice to give money to charities to help the unfortunate, support immigrants to our country (like my mother, who immigrated when she was 7). Instead, I'm forced to. I object to being forced to help, not the helping in and of itself. That is the difference between a welfare state and a free society... stripping choice from the people.
Slashdot Mirror
Migrating users isn't that difficult, basic desktop usage of Windows, MacOS or Linux is mostly portable. Anyone who can't learn how to do very basic things on another OS (I'm not talking about system administration here, but typing and printing memos) doesn't deserve their job. Sometimes people just have to learn and adapt to change, it is one of the requirements of being a living thing.
Gotta love them double-edged swords.
Nuke the site from orbit, its the only way to be sure.
You'll have to forgive me, English is my second language. My first language is tard.
... action from the last vestiges of elitism and arrogance that helped the Internet stay small and academic before the plaque of commercialism was allowed access in the early 90s.
Ahhh, the good ol' days, when the Internet was young, and closed to only the educated, and information was free to anyone who could pay tuition or get a grant/scholarship... all this open and free sharing of information, regardless of the IQ of the participant. I'm tellin' ya, we never should have let the stupid vote.
Dirty peasants!</sarcasm>
Sun confuses me, I can't quite get a handle on their business philosophy. This kind of decision seems like the random flailing of a dieing animal to me.
I don't think Debian deserves to be exclusively associated with high levels of clue in their user base. This may be a security blankey that some hold on to in order to feel elite, but I don't think it is fair or true. Red Hat, Mandrake, and other distributions with graphical installation front-ends may be more accessible to new users, but that does not mean the power users of those distributions are any less intelligent than Debian users.
Besides, if I want to feel like I'm really stretching my brain, I install Gentoo or a BSD. Debian (aside from Progeny, RIP) has always seemed like a feature-lacking Linux distro to me.
I'm slightly afraid that you didn't intend that to be humorous...
I couldn't resist, sorry.
As we get closer and closer to microscoptic or at least very small computers, how long until the inevitable complex systems of neural nets combined with tiny computing devices self-organizes into something with capabilities outstripping an expert system... and into something like SkyNet in the Terminator movies?
The self-organization of a complex system into a self-aware artificial intelligence is a chaos theory wet dream.
If Monkeyboy Ballmer was a lawyer, he'd be ranting "PRECENDENT PRECENDENT PRECEDENT" right now. Dangerous laws are the ones written so open that any meathead judge can come along and pass judgement, despite not having any clue whatsoever in the issue at hand.
Those viruses almost exist, by the way. Many of the new viruses getting out (about 4 new ones a day) spread through P2P apps and drop files that look like porn. Its not too much of a stretch to change the filename from hotlesbiansdoingit.mpg to hot16yearoldlesbiansdoingit.mpg, add an addressbook entry for a law enforcement contact, and THEN spam.
I like to pretend that /. is about interesting news, perhaps even stuff that matters. I like seeing informative articles about things like Mac OS X because it helps educate me and get me past my innate prejudice against Apple and previous versions of Mac OS. If Apple would wake up about hardware, I might even buy a couple of the OS, and that is largely due to the clue I've gained from /.
I use Linux, Solaris, Windows, *BSD, etc. The "Windows Sucks!" mantra may be prominent on /., but isn't law. Deviation might get you modded down, though =)
As far as law enforcement is concerned, go ahead and think about it... the national security types are who you need to worry about =)
When is ThinkGeek getting Tin Foil hats with a stylish Tux logo?
I assume the burning software I use and have used under Windows has "drag and drop" features, but I never use them. As per my other post to (another?) AC, I tend towards directory tree displays. I've never used the "drag your files onto the cd burner" method that is in XP, and I've never used a burner under MacOS. When I do burn, it is almost exclusively ISOs (I'm one of the evil people that insists on downloading ISOs of distributions rather than do FTP installs) or I create the directory structure that I want burnt onto disk and then burn that.
Other examples in the windows world of apps that don't attempt (to my knowledge) "drag and drop" burning are clonecd (which I believe emphasizes burning images or doing copies from cd to cd through a very simple GUI), and fireburner (I believe it is similar to clonecd in that it emphasizes images). I don't have other examples from doing a quick survey among some friends.
Roxio's software is probably the prime cullprit in the 'bastardized "pseudo-desktops"' class of burning apps you comment on. GnomeToaster has some drag and drop features, but I don't tend to use that application much.
*NIX GUIs on the other hand vary widely. The attempts are standardization, such as CDE, have been awful, IMO. Apple definitely gets the nod over the CDE folks for GUI design, whether or not I personally care for the Finder or other trends as Apple developed their desktop from the ancient Mac days in the 80s. I think CDE is a perfect example of a bad standardized GUI, and when I have the option (which is almost always) I use another GUI on my desktop *NIX platforms. For example, I tend to standardize on GNOME. It works well enough on Solaris to be favored on that environment, and I use it on Linux unless I need to be very resource conscious (at which point I default to Blackbox or Fluxbox).
I am quite aware of the common feeling among those that prefer MacOS: "why should I have to relearn? I use a computer to meet goals and accomplish a task". Perhaps what it comes down to is the learning of new systems, being exposed to new ideas in UI design, and constantly adding to experience with the myriad options is one of my goals in an of itself. Might be a waste of time for you, but I'd rather be learning that (useless?) information.
I'm not an expert in MacOS, so I might as well make sure that is clear now. Feel free to write me off as talking out of my ass if you haven't already =)
I use computers for far more than playing games and installing Linux. I am by no means a "gamer" or Linux hobbyist. My interaction with computers is a bit above that level, but not into the realm of GUI design guru.
Its probably best that we agree to disagree. I don't particularly care for the (older) MacOS GUI, and my interaction with it (usually in the context of education settings) did not give me much respect for the powers of the OS. Same can be said for Windows.
At any rate: eat me.
I don't use "drag and drop" functionality of burning software, so I can't really comment on the common implementation of that feature. I use burning software under Linux, Windows, or whatever I have to, and I tend to use the features that focus on the old (old not necessarily being bad) directory tree metaphor. I suppose that my own reasoning should label the directory tree as "patronizing" since it really takes inodes or other filesystem features and displays the information in a way I am experienced in understanding. That being said, I wouldn't be adverse to learning a new metaphor.
I didn't say it was necessary to completely describe how the technology works in finite detail so that the "metaphor" doesn't patronize the user.
You are all missing the point. The argument I've presented is exactly that proposed by governments around the world, case in point: Canadian Government's Lawful Access Consultation Document.
That being said, the fact is, whether or not you choose to believe it, that criminals, terrorists, etc etc are using new technologies to communicate and legislation for the new techologies tends to lag behind that for existing and well established technologies such as POTS. Governents know this, and legislation such as CALEA seek to bridge that gap. What we need to be vigilant about is to ensure that mistakes made in existing legislation are not propagated for the new.
We must ensure that civil liberties and human rights are maintained while allowing law enforcement to protect the rights of the people. Retaining logs at the ISP level does not equate with disclosing logs to law enforcement agencies. I don't know what legal hoops LEAs in the UK must jump through to arrange disclosure, but there are legal tests that must take place and judicial involvement to ensure that the rights of the "person of interest" are maintained.
Those of you modding my original comment down, or refusing to mod it up because you don't like what I said despite it being informative (it is, if you don't think that is the stance that government is taking and their publicly stated perspective, then you are fooling yourself), you should check your assumptions and think very hard on whether you are capable of thinking objectively. Information which is distasteful to you can be just as valid and informative as that which coincides with your world view. Think outside the box, try devil's advocacy some time, you might find it opens your mind so you are actually thinking, not just regurgitating what you've been taught.
A linux mag should do a photoshoot of her in something almost-not-there and all the geektoys. That could quite possibly cause the /. community to explode.
[That is the queue for some politically correct and/or sensitive people to chime in with: "not all /.ers are men and/or like women and/or like porn and/or like linux and/or like foo]
I get the idea from your comment that Apple's guide could be subtitled "How to Treat Users like Morons". I may have to read it just in case the representation isn't fair.
The new technologies make it very difficult to allow agencies to develop the suspicion further surveilance requires as an antecedant. Traditional communications did not include the same reasonable expectations of privacy that we have today. A phone call always required you to be tied to a handset on the wall, with the possibility of being overheard. The availability of privacy for the average citizen and the average criminal has increased dramatically, and this is the only (public) way that the law enforcement and national security agencies know how to handle it.
Is this right? Is this a Bad Thing for the long run? Quite possibly. You also have no "long run" if you get blown up in a terrorist attack or murdered by someone who couldn't be caught because their ISP refused to cooperate.
The server market, on the other hand, is a completely different matter. Neither Apple nor Microsoft rule the roost in that segment.
It didn't do them much good. Whether it was features, price, compatibility, overall usefullness, or some Evil Microsoft Trick, Apple lost this market.
I don't think anyone should be able to "live parasitically off the rest of us". I'm not in favor of a welfare state. And no, we're not all all Socialists, but it seems like the majority of voters in Eastern Canada think they are and vote accordingly. I'd rather have the choice to give money to charities to help the unfortunate, support immigrants to our country (like my mother, who immigrated when she was 7). Instead, I'm forced to. I object to being forced to help, not the helping in and of itself. That is the difference between a welfare state and a free society... stripping choice from the people.