Jaguar Free for K-12 Teachers

Hugh writes "It seems Apple is giving away for free its newest revision of Mac OS X, version 10.2 (Jaguar), to every K-12 teacher in the U.S."

Comments

Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope the 7 K-12 teachers that can afford an Apple enjoy the upgrade.

Re:Wow

[Maniakes]

I would think that even teachers would be able to afford $800 for a low end Mac at home, but Apple has been giving Macs to schools for free for years.

Re:Wow

[Graff]

I hope the 7 K-12 teachers that can afford an Apple enjoy the upgrade.

Actually, Apple offers educators pretty decent discounts on all of Apple's hardware and software. For example, the lowest price Macintosh for educators is a iMac G3 for $750. The lowest price Mac for non-educators is an eMac for $1099. The same eMac for educators is $999, almost a 10% discount.

The eMacs offer Firewire, USB, ethernet, a 17" flat screen monitor, nice speakers, a compact form factor, and they are very durable. Sure if you buy some no-name, do-it-yourself pc you can get a computer cheaper, but these prices are pretty good for a pre-built, quality machine. On top of all of this you get MacOS X, tons of great free software such as iTunes and iMovie, and the ability to run almost any software written for Linux or other Unix-like operating systems. Not a bad deal at all.

Re:Wow

[Drakonian]

Ummmmm. The K-12 market is one of Apple's biggest. There are a proportionally larger percentage of Macs in lower education compared to almost any other market: Home, Business, etc.

Re:Wow

[Captain Zion]

Apple has an interesting pricing system. From the page you linked, we learn that it costs $799 with 128MB, $874 with 256MB and $1024 with 512MB, and for $40 you can "get twice the RAM".

Re:Wow

[Hays]

Lets see... I just grabbed these in a few minutes of browsing. There could be better deals.

AMD Athlon XP 1600+ - $52.99
EPOX EP-8KHAL+ VIA Apollo KT266A - $77.00
Western Digital 80 gig 7200 RPM HD - $111.00
Crucial Micron pc2100 256M RAM - $64.99
Lite-On 16X DVD ROM - $42.00
Sound Blaster Live! - $34.00
Harman HK 19.5 SPEAKER - $29.00
Antec Case w/ 300W power - $55.00
Samsung SyncMaster 753DF 17" DynaFlate CRT monitor - $135.00
Logitec Optical mouse - $11.00
Logitec keyboard - $13.00
3COM 10/100 NIC - $26.00
Windows XP home - $90.00
and last but not least
Sony 1.44MB 3.5 inch INTERNAL FDD DRIVE - $8.00

grand total: $ 804.98 shipped
(prices calculated from newegg.com being shipped fed-ex saver to Georgia)

That's twice as good in most categories compared to the Imac (right down the number of mouse buttons).

Apple is in the business of selling hardware for more than it's worth. Giving away their operating system to teachers doesn't mean much since it can only be run on their hardware. (OS-X versions they're willing to release, at least)

I should hope my teachers are smarter.

Re:Wow

[Maniakes]

That's twice as good in most categories compared to the Imac (right down the number of mouse buttons).

[Insert standard "Mhz Myth" argument here]
[Insert standard "One Button Like God Intended" rant here]

Also, you forgot to factor in the labor involved in building and troubleshooting the computer. Most teachers would have to hire somebody to do this. Since this is a one-off build (I know if you're making dozens of the same computer you can do it faster, since you only need to troubleshoot once), assume four hours at $25/hour to build and troubleshoot. Since most teachers add Windows XP Home for $186.99, and Office XP Standard for $416.99, and you're looking at a total of $1,508.96 for your system.

Anyway, you're missing my point. My point is not that low end Macs are a better deal than low end PCs (they probably aren't). My point is that there are low end Macs which are affordable on a teacher's salary.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

>For example, the lowest price Macintosh for educators is a iMac G3 for $750.

Wow, that's expensive. No wonder most schools that go with Macs are sorely out of date.

My college just upgraded to some nice basic P4 machines, and they cost far less than $750, including a nice 17" monitor.

I guess when you go Mac, you just can't go back, though.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

For $1099 anyone can get pretty much almost the latest pentium machine.
That only shows how expensive Apple hardware is.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

NOT insightful at all. Academic pricing for WinXP pro is around $80 and Office at $170 or so.

Re:Wow

[pangu]

Actually, the lowest priced Mac for non-educators is the 15 inch monitor iMac G3 for $799 at Apple's online store. However, I used to work in education, and the discounts available to me were more in line of $50 off a roughly $2000 machine. I can see them selling the eMac with more of a discount though, since that line was initially targeted only to the education market.

Re:Wow

[MoneyT]

Bullshit. I have yet to see a single person show me a TOL PC for $1000. So would you care to step up to the challenge?

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

And to echo the other ac's complaint:

1. How much is MS Office for Mac? Probably $420 with an educator's discount. But you can run alternatives like Star Office, right? No, not practically.

2. So the first hit is now free. What will the future hold? If you bought OSX 10.1 you would know the answer to this. With an i386 solution you can install any darned OS you want. And you can change your mind and install something completely different at a later date.

Re:Wow

[Aqua OS X]

The real reason that Macs tend to remain in institutions for 4+ years is due to the fact that MacOS machines stay functional for a long a** time ;). Mac developers typically support older Apple hardware for quite a while since the hardware/software that they are developing for is incredibly specific. Moreover, Apple has a smaller market share it really makes sense to support as many macs as you possibly can... even 4 year old G3s.

I find it somewhat funny that I can walk into something such as a music studio and still find a ton of old Mac Classics sitting next to dual G4's. When your dealing with multimedia tasks such as midi Mac classics still just "work" ... and work incredibly well at that.

People rarely want to keep a Wintel box around for more then 3 years. You get desire to migrate a lot sooner. (and by "migrate" I mean "huck that slow, difficult, outdated POS out the window")

I used to work in a campus IT dept, and I fail to comprehend why anyone in their right mind would want to spend thousands of dollars on Wintel computer labs. I guess people simply like to purchase what they know. Mac labs last longer (especially in multimedia labs), they are more secure, they have the same damn productivity software, they require a much smaller IT dept, software licenses are not a royal pain in the butt, kids can comprehend how to use the desktop workspace faster, teachers can admin class networks and netboot machines with virtually no training, etc etc etc. I'm also fairly sure Apple gives institutions a fairly nice price break when they buy in bulk.

I'm all about white box PCs if your going to stick linux on them and set up as word processing machines or library terminals. That's a smart low maintenance move. But for the love of god, keep those things out of the media labs ;)

Re:Wow

[macdaddy]

That's odd. I used to work in a K-12 (mother still does) and I work at a Unv now. At $2000, the discount is about $250.

I got a really good discount about 5 years ago. I signed up as an Apple's developer. At that point and time all Apple developers received steep hardware discounts. I bought a new 8600/300 w/ Applevision 1710, Color StyleWriter 4500, and a P166 PC Card (@ $826) with an incredible discount. Paid for the membership and the monitor.

Re:Wow

[Hays]

Wow, I got reamed for that post.

Anyway, that price already had winXP home in it. As for office, I don't see why you'd need to buy office for a PC and not for a Mac?

Good point about putting it together. I'll concede that.

So the AMD XP 1600 might not be twice as fast as a Power PC 600. It probably is in some things and isn't in some things. Which of those machines would you rather have though?

Re:Wow

[azav]

My God. You sound exactly like me. Get out of my head you bastard.

Re:Wow

[KillerKane]

Hmmmnn...you might be on to something...let's see... silicon's made from sand, now 1,000 lbs of sand - $100, one blast furnace....

Try and build a car that way, nitwit, and the light will dawn. Maybe. Nitwit.

Re:Wow

[Hays]

I did build my computer in exactly this way. It's not too difficult, and thousands of other people do it.

It's really just a matter of plugging things in and screwing them into the case.

I'm not saying to manufacture your own components.

about time

[emptybody]

This should have been done long ago.
MS gave hardware to schools to sway them to go M$ Apple should be giving gear away as an investment into the end users too.

Re:about time

[Idarubicin]

Apple doesn't have forty billion in the bank. And MS isn't trying to sell hardware in addition to software.

Re:about time

[OmniVector]

my highschool had TONS of apple machines, and we even got more after i left. Not to mention the vocational school i went to after highschool had even more?! macs. i'm sure apple has given schools hardware discounts as well, otherwise they would have never gotten imacs over pcs.

then again, i remember talking to the sysadmin one day only to hear him ranting about the difficulty of administrating nt4 as opposed to the mac machines.

Re:about time

[DrugCheese]

Well yes, they'll have the free software, but they'll still need Apple hardware to run it with correct?
Pretty smart move I think.

Re:about time

[EvilAlien]

MS isn't trying to sell hardware in addition to software.

Maybe that is why Microsoft's business model, as repulsive as it may be to some, is much more successful than Apple's?

Re:about time

[thanasakis]

MS isn't trying to sell hardware? What about the x-box? I think that microsoft is trying to enter the hardware market as a serious competitor. What they don't know is that controlling the hardware market isn't as easy as controlling the software market.e.g. their usual tricks won't apply here.Apple tried to block 3rd party manufacturers and where did that get them. If you have a doubt ask IBM (or sun). IBM wasn't able to control the pc which she had invented in the first place. These companies have learned their lesson and are now moving to the software side of the force. MS is going to have a hard time in the hardware market...

Re:about time

[Drakonite]

IBM used mainly off the shelf components (thus, no (or few) patents and cheap prices to build your own). It was a last ditch effort because they knew if they didn't have something out right away to compete with Apple, they'd never stand a chance.

Re:about time

[goon america]

Apple doesn't have forty billion in the bank.

Yeah, it just has a paltry 4.5 billion. Peanuts.

Re:about time

[Nathanbp]

Apple did give hardware to schools a long time ago. That is why so many schools have only recently switched over to PCs. At least in my town the Jr. Highs switched recently and the Elementary School is still using Macs.

Re:about time

[Gyorg_Lavode]

My mother is a 7th grade teacher and owns a TI notebook. The school she is at uses macs almost exclusively. When she got the book, it came with OS9 and the first OSX. OSX at that time was so buggy that the person incharge of the school computer system told her not to use OSX and instead stick with OS9.

I see this move as apple trying to convince those educators who bought an apple under OS9 or OSX / 9 to upgrade so that the students coming out of the schools are tutored in OSX helping to foster the OS.

Re:about time

[Henry V .009]

Why does it take $40 billion to give away software?

Re:about time

[nevershower]

yes, but if you'd buy a mac now, it'd come with Jaguar, so it's a moot point.

But, yes, they'd need apple hardware, but apple already got their money for it.

Re:about time

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

Microsoft dosnt need any money, they create it.
Giving away software licenses that they can set the price to allows them to create money as part of the settlement for many lawsuits.

Re:about time

[benedict]

I think Microsoft is probably pretty well aware
that the dynamics of hardware markets are different
from those of software markets. They're not exactly
ignorant of microeconomics over there in Redmond.

Re:about time

[EvilAlien]

Apple used to be the standard for educational institutions from K-12 and up. Back in the day it was all about Apples. The geeks in their late 20s and 30s should remember those days well, Apple IIc and IIe were the desktop machine available in the computer labs. They only "recently" got replaced by Windows boxes... Apple had the crucial education market locked up, and were in the faces of many of us growing up.

It didn't do them much good. Whether it was features, price, compatibility, overall usefullness, or some Evil Microsoft Trick, Apple lost this market.

Re:about time

[axxackall]

i'm sure apple has given schools hardware discounts as well, otherwise they would have never gotten imacs over pcs

No need in discount - just pay some commissions, usually several times smaller than any noticable discount, you gets the deal, a school gets its computers and the govt doesn't care a sheet about it. That's they way how most of titans are winning their govt contracts. And that's pissing me off.

Re:about time

[shepd]

>And MS isn't trying to sell hardware in addition to software.

Sorry, I must have missed that.

Re:about time

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't hear anyone bitching about how Apple is trying to lock them into Apple only and how expensive the upgrades to 10.3 are going to be... Oh sorry. It's Apple, not Microsoft we're talking about isn't it. It's OK then.

Re:about time

[jkramar]

I agree wholeheartedly. I furthermore believe that Debian should try giving away their OS for free to educational organizations as well, to provide an incentive of some sort for trying it. This really should have been done long ago! Wait...

Re:about time

[CordMeyer]

Apple doesn't have forty billion in the bank

They've got 4. I think that's about enough.

Re:about time

[Choachy]

Actually, Apple has done some very nice things for some local schools around here.

A Georgia middle school that my girlfriend teaches at won a grant from Apple several years ago, which provided the school with 750 iBooks and an airport network to cover the entire campus. Each student and teacher is given an iBook, which all now have OS X, for the school year, unlimited 'filtered' network access at school, and 3 hours of dialup access yer week from of campus. This is in addition to several iMac labs at the school.

This is in an average to low income area as well.

I wish something like this were available to me when I was in middle school.

Re:about time

[Anonymous Coward]

Last I heard, they have about $15 billion in cold, hard cash available. MS doesn't have nearly that much. All of their value is in stock. Kind of like how Bill Gates doesn't have more than a few hundred million in cash, but he has billions worth of stock.

On a side note, Palm stock is at 62 cents last I checked. Apple has been promising to release more portable multimedia devices, and Palm Computing wrote software for the Apple Newton before they became a competitor. I wonder if Apple might just buy Palm. It would be cool if they did.

Re:about time

[MoneyT]

Is it really that much more succesful though? Apple makes something like a 15% profit margin on every machine it sells. It has survived practicaly unscathed through economic downturns and contrary to popular belief at the time, survived through the 90's. They are currently growing, still innovating and are the only other OS to succesfuly hold out against Windows (linux is free, it won't go away, ever). Despite many power shifts, bad mistakes and large debts they have somehow managed to stay in business all these years. So tell me, why is Apple unsuccesful?

Re:about time

[MoneyT]

Unfortunately not all technology administrators are bright. At a highschool I worked at, one of the guy in charge of technology had us take an inventory of the number of computers that would be nessesary to do that summer's expansion. He told us that with the exception of the art department (which fought tooth and nail for some very nice G4s) all the new machines would be Dells because they were cheaper for the school to purchase. This makes sense only if you don't take into account that the day before, he had been complaining to us about how the new Microsoft licensing scheme was going to bankrupt the tech budget and how he wished there was something other than windows to use (linux doesn't cut it in a highschool, these kids have enough trouble figuring out the difference between using IE on a PC and IE on a mac). The whole situation was even more ironic because the week before he had been compllaining that in the past year, the machines that had been in the shop the most were the new Dells that we had been sent on a trial program. Despite the fact that all of us could see that the Dell package was going to be bad news, all he saw was the low low price on that contract.

Re:about time

[MoneyT]

Yeah it is fine, because no one is a mac user be default. Anyone who uses a mac, uses one by choice and is therefore not locked into the mac. If a mac user wanted to switch to PC (for whatever reason) it would simply be a matter of reselling their mac and software to someone else, since macs have great resale value. However, most computer users, and espesialy students, have only known PC all their lives (or if they've known mac, they've known the shitty setups the schools use). So by furthering their exposure to one and only one platform, they are being further locked into that platform.

Think about it this way, very very few mac users bitch about being locked into Apple, but you can always find a windows user who complains about being locked into microsoft.

Re:about time

[EvilAlien]

I didn't say "unsuccessful". Success is relative, not an obsolute and finite thing to be accomplished. Even unprofitable organizations can be considered successful. However, Microsoft's dominance of the desktop market, shear wealth (what are their profit percentages for every software license sold?), and "mindshare". I hate that term, but it aptly describes an inportant concept. The mainsteam is all about Windows, and since that is Microsoft's core target audience you have to give them credit for being the most successful desktop OS.

The server market, on the other hand, is a completely different matter. Neither Apple nor Microsoft rule the roost in that segment.

Re:about time

[Melantha_Bacchae]

EvilAlien wrote:

> Maybe that is why Microsoft's business model, as
> repulsive as it may be to some, is much more
> successful than Apple's?

Naw, Apple has a heroic wonder-working goddess and the god of the atom on their side. That makes for a lot of resurrections and rescues.

Microsoft mostly has the god of the atom POed at them because they were mean to his buddy Apple, and SQL Server misplaced his sacred nuclear materials.

Apple can also count Godzilla and Mothra as their biggest switchers.

Microsoft has a stock photo as their only switcher. Rumor has it a stock pot will be next. ;)

What happens when you embrace and extend Godzilla? Nuclear heartburn!
See "Godzilla 2000" (released in Japan as "Godzilla 2000 Millennium") for details.

Re:about time

[Anonymous Coward]

> Why does it take $40 billion to give away software?

It's not the software, it's buying all those politicians and legislators that costs the money.

free apples for all my men

[Altanar]

Free things are always good, I say. Even if it is apple...

fp

This sounds familiar

[gnillort]

I'll be immediately moderated down for this, but doesn't this sound exactly like Microsoft bundling Internet Explorer with Windows?

The only difference is they are going for greater market share twenty years from now by influencting the younger generation, while Microsoft was going for domination right away.

Note to moderators: This is not redundant. I was the first one to post it.

Re:This sounds familiar

[Anonymous Coward]

No, This is like Microsoft giving away Windows XP to use on your Windows 98 machine.

I know many teachers who have old iMacs and couldn't justify paying the price for Jaguar. Now they can.

Re:This sounds familiar

[chadm1967]

How can you compare this with Microsoft bundling Internet Explorer with Windows?

Apple isn't breaking the law.......

Re:This sounds familiar

[IamTheRealMike]

How can you compare this with Microsoft bundling Internet Explorer with Windows?

Apple isn't breaking the law.......

Are they not? This isn't a troll, IANAL etc, but isn't giving away a product for below the price you'd normally charge (except in special circumstances) market dumping, and as such illegal?

From what I recall, it wasn't the integration of IE with Windows that landed Microsoft in court originally, it was their practice of giving it away for free in order to get an advantage over Netscape.

In most parts of the world I'm pretty sure market dumping is illegal. The catch could be what the "cost price" of software is - I'd guess the market price they are charging for it, but it could be argued software costs nothing to produce so can legally be given away for free.

Re:This sounds familiar

[dextr0us]

yeah, except apple has been doing this for years, and it hasn't worked yet. I've always used mac in k-12, and i havent gotten the feeling that i'm supposed to buy a mac. Its not bundled with windows, or bundled with anything. Its called market share.

Re:This sounds familiar

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not redundant.

True, it's wrong...which is different.

Re:This sounds familiar

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations, you don't have a fucking clue.

Re:This sounds familiar

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

There is a juvinile aspect to your argument, that is common when someone on Slashdot contrasts an action by Microsoft, with one by another player - such as Apple or Corel.

There is a magic concept at work here: CONTEXT

What makes an action by MS reprehensible or not, is not the actual sequence of events, but the context in which they occur. This is in fact, the determining factor about anti-trust law. A legitimate form of promotion by one entity becomes a prohibited leverage of dominance in the market by a monopoly player.

MS has been determined - in unquestionable legal language - to be a Monopoly player.

Now, make your crack - is MS the Shoe, Top Hat or the Scottie Dog...

Re:This sounds familiar

[Xtifr]

isn't giving away a product for below the price you'd normally charge (except in special circumstances) market dumping, and as such illegal?

IANAL either, but no, giving something away is not illegal in general, although it can be under specific circumstances. Donations to schools are, I believe, generally covered under "charity", and far from being illegal, probably even qualify for a tax write-off.

From what I recall, it wasn't the integration of IE with Windows that landed Microsoft in court originally, it was their practice of giving it away for free in order to get an advantage over Netscape.

MS was violating the terms of their earlier consent decree, where they had agreed not to try to put potential competitors out of business by bundling new stuff with the OS. Remember, the rules are different for a monopoly, and even more different for a monopoly that repeatedly violates anti-trust laws.

I'm no fan of Apple, I wouldn't switch on a bet, and if you gave me a Mac, I'd wipe off that OS/X junk and install Debian in a heartbeat, but Apple is clearly doing nothing wrong here.

Re:This sounds familiar

[benedict]

The law against dumping is intended to protect
against unfair competition, generally of the
foreign variety.

Who but Apple sells operating systems for the Mac?

Re:This sounds familiar

[evilviper]

Remember, the rules are different for a monopoly, and even more different for a monopoly that repeatedly violates anti-trust laws.

Hmm, any M$ emplayees sneaking around Slashdot? If so I think you've found your new slogan:

"Think 'even more different' ".

Re:This sounds familiar

[Dai_Quat]

They are none of the above. M$, as any Monopoly player will tell you, is the Moneybag!

Re:This sounds familiar

[Anonymous Coward]

MS has been determined - in unquestionable legal language - to be a Monopoly player.

Yes, in the desktop OS market.

A company can declared to be a monopoly in one market while having plenty of competition in another (ie. Windows 95% desktop, ~35% (?) server). Apple holds about 20% of the education market which means that Microsoft can't be said to have a monopoly in that market. The difference, of course, is context.

Ironic how you gave that helpful explanation of context, yet failed to understand it completely.

Re:This sounds familiar

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

A company can declared to be a monopoly in one market while having plenty of competition in another (ie. Windows 95% desktop, ~35% (?) server). Apple holds about 20% of the education market which means that Microsoft can't be said to have a monopoly in that market. The difference, of course, is context.

Monopoly power is considered pernicious, especially when leveraging a Monopoly in one area, to try and extend itself in another.

This is the fundamental argument about Netscape. MS had desktop dominance, and used it to achieve browser dominance.

One needn't have a monopoly in one given area, to provoke a legal need for restriction on one's activities in another.

Ironic how you gave that helpful explanation of context, yet failed to understand it completely.

I wonder if you have any basic understanding of the existing legislation, and the rationale for constraints that have been sought on MS behavior... It appears you are more pleased by being contrary, than by thinking a little.

Re:This sounds familiar

[TI-83]

jaguar runs decently on 400 mhz g3s (~2.5 year old). much more quickly than expected, incl. finder graphics. which is more than I can say about windows XP on a 2 year old computer.

a fair ammount of teachers depend on os 8-9 based grading, educational, or word processing software. this would make it hard for them to switch up to osX, especially if they don't already run os 9.2 (9.1 runs under classic, but looses menus and things... buggy. <9.1 has not been supported under osX since the alpha, I think)

Re:This sounds familiar

[GutBomb]

yellow dog?

Re:This sounds familiar

[Nept]

the battleship

Re:This sounds familiar

[MoneyT]

Two things

1) This would be a special case since a) it's only going to k-12 teachers and b) as I read it, it's the single user version

2) This isn't quite product dumping because if you own a mac, chances are you're probably already using mac OS, meaning this is just a free upgrade.

Re:This sounds familiar

[benedict]

That's commercial? Anyway, they're not a serious
enough competitor to successfully bring a dumping
action. They'd be laughed out of court.

Are they..

[403Forbidden]

Are they just giving away the upgrade or the entire package? If it's the whole OS that's a pretty good deal... heck I'm betting it will sway a lot of people who are thinking of buying a new PC into buying a Mac.

How long till we see the switch ads saying "I got my Mac OS for free... Apple is so nice and 1337"

I got WinXP, Frontpage, OfficeXP, and Visual Studio from MS for being a college student, why didn't we hear about this?

Re:Are they..

[IamTheRealMike]

Are they just giving away the upgrade or the entire package? If it's the whole OS that's a pretty good deal... heck I'm betting it will sway a lot of people who are thinking of buying a new PC into buying a Mac.

How does that work? If they give you the OS for free, can you go to a shop and buy a cheaper Mac? I was under the impression that the cost of OS X is included and not optional. The only people who would benefit from this are those who already have a Mac with OS X.

Re:Are they..

[haunebu]

They list the system requirements as:

*Mac OS X v10.2 system requirements:
A minimum of 128MB of memory and one of the following Apple products: Power Mac G3 or G4, iMac, eMac, iBook, and PowerBook G3 or G4. (The original PowerBook G3 and processor upgrade cards are not supported.)

Note that a previous version of Mac OS X is not listed, so it must be the full package. Woohoo!

Re:Are they..

[joepa]

I got WinXP, Frontpage, OfficeXP, and Visual Studio from MS for being a college student, why didn't we hear about this?

No, you probably paid for it in one way or another.

Re:Are they..

[alfredo]

I got WinXP, Frontpage, OfficeXP, and Visual Studio from MS for being a college student, why didn't we hear about this?

they are embarrassed to admit it.

Re:Are they..

[ctr2sprt]

Here, I've got a supercharger for a 1981 Porsche 924 NA that's been stroked to 2.4L. It cost me $1,500, but I'll let you have it for free. Quite a deal, huh? Well, you do need that exact model of car. It'll cost a lot of money to buy it. You'll have to get someone to install it, too, or you might damage the engine. And, when you're all done, it probably won't be any faster than the car you have now.

But what a deal! You'd be saving $1,500, once you spent $25,000 on the rest!

Re:Are they..

[Alex Thorpe]

True, the OS is free with a new Mac, though it could be useful with, say, a used one. But it's mainly aimed at teachers with Macs already, probably G3 based iMacs.

Re:Are they..

[Snuffub]

"I got WinXP, Frontpage, OfficeXP, and Visual Studio from MS for being a college student, why didn't we hear about this?"

grabbing them over the network from your roommate doesnt count as microsoft giving them away. In fact im sure that they dont give them away to all colleges because i know for a fact we have an outrageously expensive site license.

Re:Are they..

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahh... The classic 924.

Supercharger - Free
1981 924 - $2000
Supercharger installation - $1500
One year of upkeep - $21,500
Realizing that any amount of money is too much for a 924 - Priceless

People that know a bit about 924s will understand the humor. Geez, you'd think they were British cars.

Re:Are they..

[fermion]

As far as I know, there is not 'upgrade' to jaq. Everyone has to foot the $130 bill for the OS. It does not appear that Appled is asking for any money from the schools. They only want proof you are a teacher and a school delivery address.

I do not think you got WinXP and extras for free. Your school likely paid a very significant licensing fee for the right to distrubute the software to all faculty, staff, and students. This fee was in turn paid by you through fees, and, if a public institution, through public taxes. I would say you got an incredible deal, but it was far from free.

Or, as has been mentioned here before, the school was forced to license the software for everyone to avoid the dreaded BSA audit.

Re:Are they..

[403Forbidden]

no the actual college gave them to me... Frontpage and Office XP were retail discs and the rest were OEMs.

Re:Are they..

[Nazmun]

G3's and OS X is a pretty bad mix... It's like windows 98 of a pentium 100 mhz machine...

This will be useful for all the G4 Towers in our school.

Re:Are they..

[Alex Thorpe]

OS X works pretty darned well on my G3/400. Well, I have problems with all 3D games, but it seems to be a video memory corruption problem; not something easily fixed with built-in video. But at the time, a tower with PCI slots and DVD and an external monitor would have been an extra thousand bucks.

Re:Are they..

[benedict]

OS X runs fine on G3-based machines, even some
of the older ones. Sometimes you have to add
memory though.

Re:Are they..

[Josuah]

G3's and OS X is a pretty bad mix... It's like windows 98 of a pentium 100 mhz machine...

Hardly.

I've been running Mac OS X since beta on my six year old Beige G3/300 which has 256MB RAM and was running off the original ixMicro 3D video card. Once I hit 10.1.5 things ran quite smoothly, although things will slow down if I'm playing MP3s over NFS. (My 10/100 NIC and SCSI hard disk are both sitting on the PCI bus, along with the video card.) I was able to run dual monitors one off the Rage II and the other off the ixMicro just fine.

I recently upgraded to a RADEON 7000 PCI so I get better dual monitor support and can play some 3D games at low resolution.

This is my primary workstation and I am often running ~10 applications including Photoshop, OmniWeb, iChat, Mail, iCal, iTunes, BBEdit, XFree86, Terminal, etc. Things work wonderfully.

Re:Are they..

[Natalie's Hot Grits]

OS X "Jaguwire" requires a 3d video card with T&L engine (ie, Nvidia geforce1 or ATI radeon +) the new Jag "makes your video card THINK the desktop is 3d, even though its just 2d" (Apple Computer) to accelerate and make the GUI faster (ie, its using OpenGL calls to draw some shit). Big deal. Apple wants to basically drop support for the old machines and that is why they don't let you run their new shit from older hardware.

I don't blame them.

Too many mac users (reason I specify 'mac' users is because mac users tend to think that mac's last longer than PC's for some reason, hint: they don't last longer) think apple's were ment to last a lifetime, then get pissed off at the store when they need a new $400 motherboard after the 1 yr warranty expires (yes, $400).

The faster apple can get rid of all the old machines being used, the less bitching and bad rep they get from broken hardware, and the more money into their pockets from new sales.

Before someone tries to refute my "lasts longer" statement. Please, don't compare emachines and $400 gateways and compaqs to eMacs. They aren't competitors. the price difference is far greater than 2x.

Re:Are they..

[furballphat]

OS X "Jaguwire" requires a 3d video card with T&L engine (ie, Nvidia geforce1 or ATI radeon +)

Then how come I'm writing this on 10.2 with an ATI 128?

Re:Are they..

[Natalie's Hot Grits]

I guess only Quarts extreme requires a GPU, I guess u can use Jag w/o quarts extreme, my bad :(

From apple's website:

"Quartz Extreme functionality is supported by the following video GPUs: NVIDIA GeForce2 MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 MX, or GeForce4 Ti or any AGP-based ATI RADEON GPU. A minimum of 16MB VRAM is required."

Re:Are they..

[Vengie]

I got WinXP, Frontpage, OfficeXP, and Visual Studio from MS for being a college student, why didn't we hear about this?

Because you lying sack of shit, you have to return it all when you graduate.
(See http://wss.yale.edu/msdnaa/ )
Someone should mod you flamebait, asshole.

Re:Are they..

[madcow_ucsb]

According to the MSDN-AA faq:

Do students need to uninstall the software at the end of the course?

No, students are allowed to keep the software they have installed, but they may not check out or download additional MSDNAA software unless they continue taking courses from a member department. Regardless, they are still bound by the terms of the MSDNAA license agreement.

Re:Are they..

[teslatug]

Are you sure it's not a good deal? Have you looked it up?

"The membership will run from July through June each year and will cost $799 (USD) per department per year to join. The program was designed to run concurrently with the standard academic year."

List of software:
* Visual Studio Professional
* Microsoft Project Professional
* Windows XP, Windows 2000, and other Microsoft operating systems
* .NET Enterprise Servers: Windows servers, SQL Server, Exchange Server, Commerce Server, BizTalk Server, Host Integration Server, Systems Management Server, Sharepoint Portal Server, and several others
* Microsoft Visio Professional
* MSDN Library (updated quarterly), documentation, technical articles, and code samples * Software development kits (SDKs), betas, new releases, and updates
* Development tools for Windows CE
* Professional technical support for the program administrator that includes unlimited setup and install support and 4 regular support incidents
* Technical support newsgroups for faculty members
* Regular CD-based software shipments with updated software

MSDNAA FAQ

*Insert joke about how you have to factor in the cost of your soul[d] here*

Re:Are they..

[guttentag]

Are they just giving away the upgrade or the entire package? If it's the whole OS that's a pretty good deal... heck I'm betting it will sway a lot of people who are thinking of buying a new PC into buying a Mac.

Um... no. This won't entice anyone to "switch." If you buy a new Mac, it's going to come with Jaguar anyway.

This is only useful for people who (a) already have the hardware and (b) didn't consider Jaguar to be worth the upgrade price.

Re:Are they..

[jasonbw]

10.2 was a full installer, i don't think they ever made an upgrade-only version (hell, you could make 10.1 a full installer by removing one file)



i dunno, perhaps every few months when someone posts that MS is giving away student licenses (or selling for $10) you didn't speak up.

Re:Are they..

[ealar dlanvuli]

Because the MS discounts to college students are put in place in order to audit the piracy that used to be horribly rampant in those enviroments.

Re:Are they..

[Anonymous Coward]

Because we know OEM disks are free.

Frongpage and Office XP were paid for through tuition and tax money.

Re:Are they..

[lostPackets]

You most likely did not get any of this software for free. My University provides MS software to students free of charge, guess what? The University has a contract w/Mircosoft. All that software is paid for, by (you guessed it) our tuition.

Personally I'd rather they nix this program so that those of us who don't want to buy Microsofts crap aren't indirectly underwriting them.

Re:Are they..

[LinuxInDallas]

The University of Texas system (state-wide) has a deal with MS where students are able to buy MS software dirt-cheap. I picked up a copy of Visual Studio .NET and Office XP for $30 each and Windows XP for $10. These aren't crippled versions either, they are the professional versions. At that price, it just doesn't make sense to pirate it. I'm sure there are plenty of other universities with the same deal.

Re:Are they..

[Vengie]

ARE YOU FUCKING BLIND?

Q. What happens if I leave Yale? A. Under the EULA you must sign you agree to immediately remove any of these products from your machine(s) as soon as you lose your status as a member of student, staff, or faculty. Please note that this is not a Yale requirement and no one at Yale can grant an exception.

STFU.

Re:Are they..

[Nintendork]

"I got WinXP, Frontpage, OfficeXP, and Visual Studio from MS for being a college student, why didn't we hear about this?"

I don't know if you were misinformed or what...Gnutella is not made by Microsoft for distributing their software. This also means they don't hand out mp3 and pr0n.

Re:Are they..

[madcow_ucsb]

Here's the only relevant part I could find in the EULA:

Qualified Educational User shall cease loading, permitting access to or otherwise distributing the Product to any Faculty, Staff or Student who ceases its association with Qualified Educational User. In the event Microsoft notifies Qualified Educational User or Qualified Educational User learns that any Faculty, Staff or Student is in violation of the terms and conditions of the EULA and/or this Amendment, Qualified Educational User shall cease permitting access to the Product by such individuals and Qualified Educational User shall further use its best efforts to demand immediate return of or confirm destruction of any Product in the possession or under the control of such Student, staff or Faculty.

To me that just says that if you're no longer a student you don't get any more free stuff. It says nothing about having to erase it unless you violate the other terms.

Combined with the blatent FAQ on Microsoft's own website, I think Yale either didn't read the EULA themselves or are trying to pull a fast one on their students.

But maybe I'm wrong. In any case, you might want to consider working on your anger management there. I just pointed out a discrepency for Christ's sake. Relax; you'll live longer.

Re:Are they..

[MoneyT]

Before someone tries to refute my "lasts longer" statement. Please, don't compare emachines and $400 gateways and compaqs to eMacs. They aren't competitors. the price difference is far greater than 2x.

How are they not competitors? they are aimed at the low end low price market for each of the respective companies? Just because Apple tends to use decent parts in theri machines instead of the crap that goes into the low end PCs doesn't make it unfair to compare them, it just means the PC makers need to put better hardware in.

Re:Are they..

[BiterAtmonk]

Hey... Qualified Educational User shall cease loading, permitting access to If you aren't allowed to access the software anymore, you can't use it.

Re:Are they..

[BigJimSlade]

OS X runs fine on G3-based machines, even some
of the older ones.

I just upgraded a "conference room" Mac at work--an original "Beige G3" (first generation) to 10.2. $500 beefed up the hardware as far as the old platform would go, but I could have done it with less. The ol' G3 is now a G4 550 with 768 megs of RAM, a 20 gig HD and a Radeon 7000 PCI Mac edition. The OS runs pretty smoothly... not as smooth as new G4 hardware, but not bad considering the age of the original hardware.

Re:Are they..

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a high school CS teacher. At my school, we've been putting off putting OS X on our iMacs, not because of any problems with the OS. The cost is way too much. Now we can upgrade for only the cost of memory upgrades and I can use UNIX programs in my classes. This is a great boon for almost all Mac schools.

Re:Are they..

[Anonymous Coward]

Cause yo paid for that stuff in you tuition.

Re:Are they..

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, 10.2 works on a 300MHz G3 - I run it on a 333MHz G3.

It is slow, damn slow. Cocoa apps (iCal, Mail) are painfully slow, Carbon a bit better (Office)

The best test - open Calculator: and press buttons as fast as you can... responsive is about the worst word you can use to describe the experience.

Of course - 10.2 even running on a 300 or 333 machine is very impressive. I bet it is 2x's faster than Win XP on a 300MHz.

Apple coming back to roots?

[tandr]

In light of the last ad copying, what could be an answer from Microsoft?..

What are the implications of this for Beowulf...

[Patrick Bateman]

... clustering? Also, what are the implications of this for grid computing?

Thanks in advance.

Remembering one of the major markets

[NiKnight3]

It's great to see that Apple is still promoting their role in the educational market - that's where I started off with Macs. Learning with them at school, especially with their first experiences with computers, can really help people decide which OS to use in the future. Take Maine, for example, where every 7th and 8th grader gets an iBook. A lot of the concerns about that program have come regarding the teachers' and parents' concern with having to learn the new hardware and software. Glad to see Apple is giving teachers a chance to stay on the front lines of the OS.

Re:Remembering one of the major markets

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you have any information concerning the cost of these machines and specs?

Re:Remembering one of the major markets

[NiKnight3]

There's some information at the Apple page for the project and at the MLTI site (Maine Learning Technology Initiative). I believe there are about 34,000 laptops at a cost of $34,000,000 (that's from memory).

Re:Remembering one of the major markets

[B1ackDragon]

They're doing this? I think it's awesome. Thats it, I'm moving to Maine, and reinrolling in school. Forget college, I'll go through all of gradeschool again if I have to. :-)

An apple for the teacher..

[Kelerain]

So are they trying to get better grades or something? The "Apple for the teacher" thing was out of style years ago.

Re:An apple for the teacher..

[deanpole]

They are doing it to create a mailing list.

Re:An apple for the teacher..

[Kelerain]

I was kidding, but seriously..
I think they would do it even sans mailing list. Its not like the addresses of schools are tough to get. What they are trying to do is to encourage the use of thier oeprating system in an environment where it can influence young minds.
If they grow up on macs, they will buy macs when they reach adult hood. At least in theory. I've never seen it have a huge effect. But then again maybe thats half of why apple is still around today.
There are easier ways to get a mailing list of teachers. What they are doing is advertising to school kids, and trying to get thier OS in that environment. And it will probably be only minorly effective, as it has been before.

Re:Just like at the playground!

[Anonymous Cowrad]

I've always wanted to know where these dealers who hand out drugs for free hang out.

I would come back every day for a sample. Maybe I'd put on some groucho glasses or a new hat every time so they wouldn't get wise.

Hey, free drugs.

apple

[martinflack]

Brings whole new meaning to giving the teacher an apple.

Re:MOTHERFUCKERS!

[discstickers]

me thinks this is more for teachers' individual machines. not school labs. nice troll, btw

wash repeat...

[oliverthered]

Personally I don't want any advertising in schools. Free stuff from Apple and M$, fine so long as any branding or notions that it's apple of m$ are removed.

Hell I pleased that Coke give me free advertising, I'm pleased that whenever I buy a mars bar some money goes to SKY T.V and the Sun news paper. All this free stuff makes me feel great!

Remove brain.
Wash
?
repeat....

No all I need is the odd rinse cycle.

Re:wash repeat...

[DrMaurer]

This isn't the worst of it.

Occasionally, I substitute teach, so I don't think I'm qualified for Apple's give-away, so.

But, from what I've seen, the worse of this advertising stuff is the Channel 1 network.

In exchange for free TVs in every room (and the cable infrastructior [sp] along with it), the school agrees to broadcast this news program into the school rooms.

The actual content of the Channnel one network is supposedly news, but it's biased, heavily, but I suppose that it's hard to keep bias out of news. I mean, just by choosing which stories to cover you've got bias.

CNN's Anderson Cooper and MTV's Serena Alschule (however you spell it) got their start at channel one. It also allowed for a lot of schools to have the means to make their own news shows, some of which were basically some kid reading in monotone the events of the day and the sports scores, along with the cheesy Video Toaster graphics.

But they (Channel 1) pay for it by showing about 4 segments of 4 ads in about 15 minutes to a very specific and very captive audience.

But I remember this stuff back when I was in school. I remember that they had thousands of ads that students were forced to watch, mostly involving OXY cleansers and Pepsi.

Vaguely depressing, because they had the demographic they wanted and the kids had to watch, sometimes there were quizzes based on the content of the show. (Of course, depending how the student cared about his/her grade.)

There's your advertising in schools for you.

At least my school had a pepsi and a coke machine, for choice, you know. They turned them off before first hour started, though my experiences show that the availability has little effect on the students themselves in the classroom. It's more likely the location and the towns' economic situation.

To try and push this into vaguely on topic-ness, I haven't seen an Apple (other than a few Apple IIs [even still]) in a school I've taught at or attended since my college's graphic design lab.

Re:wash repeat...

[Anonymous Coward]

To try and push this into vaguely on topic-ness, I haven't seen an Apple (other than a few Apple IIs [even still]) in a school I've taught at or attended since my college's graphic design lab.

And I haven't seen a Wintel machine in any school I've ever attended.

Moral of this post: your own experience is useless when discussing large statisical things such as market penetration. Please keep it to yourself.

Re:wash repeat...

[DrugCheese]

Oh yes Channel 1, thanks for the flashback ;)

Yea that was a VERY bias news cast now that I think about it. Good thing I have a strong will.

*Grabs a Pepsi*

Re:wash repeat...

[donglekey]

shows, some of which were basically some kid reading in monotone the events of the day and the sports scores, along with the cheesy Video Toaster graphics.

I still had fun doing it you insensitive clod!

Re:wash repeat...

[gabba_gabba_hey]

Occasionally, I substitute teach...
In exchange for free TVs in every room (and the cable infrastructior [sp] along with it)...

Maybe if you worked on your spelling they'd let you teach more often ;-)

Re:wash repeat...

[liquidice5]

I am a senior in high school right now

and we still watch Channel One every day
well, it is on, but most of us have homework to do, but many of the kids in the lower grades, or the ones with mean teachers, are forced to watch it, or @ least sit still and quiet while it is on.

what I do like about channel one is the equipment that they provide, as I am a part of our broadcasting club, where we produce a professional news show with local and world news and sports, as well as school announcements, where we have over the shoulder pictures and videos to go with the stories.

I think that yes, Apple is trying to put itself in schools, but really, who cares
having computers, of any sort is a good thing and serve many purposes other than just advertising.

and if you are brainwashed by all of the ads around you I dont see how you can even watch TV with out being brainwashed

Re:wash repeat...

[Anonymous Coward]

"I dont see how you can even watch TV with out being brainwashed"
and that my friend is why I don't watch TV, read newspapers etc... infact if I am more lightly to support a small cornershop then a large store. I'll try everything once, but refuse anything that's heavly 'advertised'

Hey what a fucked up life I live, but at least it's my life, not one that's been 'given' to me.

Why are the governemt lap dogs to RIAA, TV, car manufacturers etc.... , apart from the money, people with glazed eyes, who have to make it home so they don't miss an episode of 'what we want you to think today' [ER is/was US government sponsored] arn't going to march on the government any time soon.

Ok, so maybe theres's not a great conspiricy out there, but there is more than a small grain of truth.

Re:wash repeat...

[gabba_gabba_hey]

flamebait? sheesh, it was a joke. ah well, have fun modding this post down offtopic.

Re:wash repeat...

[DrMaurer]

Don't worry, man, I thought it was funyn.

I know I can't speel.

Re:wash repeat...

[kcb93x]

It also allowed for a lot of schools to have the means to make their own news shows, some of which were basically some kid reading in monotone the events of the day and the sports scores, along with the cheesy Video Toaster graphics.
He's RIGHT though...that's the scary part
And we only have coke machines *good thing I use my locker to hold 12 packs of Dew, and that hidden fridge in Electronics*

Re:wash repeat...

[Anonymous Coward]

Troy McLure: If I have 4 Pepsi minus 1 Pepsi, how many do I have? You in the Boston area.

Child: Pepsi?

Troy: Partial Credit!

Re:wash repeat...

[celery stalk]

wow...channel 1. i forgot that existed... i was in band all 4 years, and that met 1st hour. to give us more practice time, every time that came on we'd just turn off (or unplug) the TV and keep playing. :)

Re:wash repeat...

[macdaddy]

You had me at EHLO

It doesn't matter what they give for free

[pardasaniman]

In my school, teachers are the very people who pirate the most software. It doesn't matter what any company gives for free. Plus, I haven't seen one school board that runs Macs. If the school board isn't running Macs, the teachers wont be either.

Re:It doesn't matter what they give for free

[Anonymous Coward]

How about a free OS with over a GB of apps that boot and run from CDROM. No HDD, no virsus problems and no admin crap. This is what a teacher really needs.

http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

Apple can't begin to approach this!

Re:It doesn't matter what they give for free

[Anonymous Coward]

The school I went to had the sweet LC's/3/475's back when was in gr. 2 and on. This is in Canada for the record. I am now in gr 12 and the library labs are still iMacs and all the elementary schools are imacs, although all the tech labs use PC's for graphics, CAD etc. The only exception is the G4 used for video editing. Also all the computer classes are done on PC. Including my CISCO CCNA academy. All windows except the Linux server.

Re:It doesn't matter what they give for free

[Anonymous Coward]

In most schools (like the one I am network admin for) admins are terrified of going over their licenses. The threatened software audits by M$ were enough to get a lot of those slacking in line. As to your second point, you are mistaken there also. We are required to use a shitty Windows only DB program by the district office and are still fifty-fifty mac/pc across the school.

My teachers are jumping on this. It may make them committed to leaving OS9 behind. And isn't that really Apple's goal here?

Re:It doesn't matter what they give for free

[Gilmoure]

Try Pinellas County School board/system.They are not exclusively Mac but the main school board building has a lot of them around. Across the county, Macs are in schools in varying degrees. The lowest percentage are in high schools, though there are some high schools that are about 90% Mac. Another high school tech person told me his school had no Macs. He just didn't support them. The teachers in that had them did their own support, except for warranty repair. Then they called us (Apple authorized repair shop).

This county also has a city (Largo, FL) that is run with minimal windows machines. They are primarily Linux with a handfull of Macs in city hall. Wouldn't believe how scared the linux guys are of the Macs. Swore that there was no way to hook them up to the network and ended up getting the Macs their own dsl line. Weird!

Re:It doesn't matter what they give for free

[Anonymous Coward]

If you had to bring home a teacher's pay, you'd probably pirate software too.

Re:It doesn't matter what they give for free

[MoneyT]

hmmm, the school district I worked at was almost the exact opposite of your picture. Teachers didn't copy any software, infact they didn't even get the discs, if they wanted somethign they brought it to us and we checked the licences and then did the installs. The school was so paranoid, we couldn't even install NT on the machines we had just finished building untill the new licences came back from M$, despite the fact that we had sent the order out, we were just waiting for confirmation.

The school board at the district did not use macs, in fact the board of ed was pushing to have PCs (lower initial cost don'cha know). This was caused a minor uproard amongst teachers. At the highschool it was a roughly 60-40 split, with heavy support for macs from the art department and the music department (but since when has a highschool cared about them?). At the middle school it was nearly 90% support for macs, only some of the new teachers fresh out of college didn't like the macs. At the elementary school it was 100% support for the macs.

I'm a teacher.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll take one.

What? You doubt that I am a teacher? Well, come here and I'll teach you a lesson or two.

Re:I'm a teacher.

[ntp]

You need to be a teacher. They ship it to the school you work at.

-Mark

Shortest story ever?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this the shortest story ever posted to Slashdot?

the right direction

[carpe_noctem]

Now, when will they start giving out Jaguar's source to all the developers that helped out with Darwin?

Re:the right direction

[jpt.d]

That is either a very funny idea or just plain trolling

Re:MOTHERFUCKERS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you fucking realize early adopters always pay for the privledge of being early adopters? Say I want an hdtv... I go buy one. I know that in a year a tv that is nicer then mine will be half the price. Your school should have known the same thing about the os. If they are concerned about saving that money they shoudl wait and see what promotions come down the line a few months.

But, wait... it gets better

[battis]

The best part of the giveaway is that Apple is finally handing out some training software (for what it's worth -- totally sight unseen) for OS X. Having just dealt with transferring my mother and several friends from the old Mac OS to OS X, I can safely say that some training and support will be _VERY_ welcome.

Hardware Costs

[rogueuk]

The teachers still need to buy the hardware from Apple to run this though right? Can you get a new Apple computer without the OS installed? If not, then this kinda doesn't help new users much

Re:Hardware Costs

[singularity]

1) Teachers are already eligible for discounted hardware (just like almost any major computer company, Apple has educational discounts).

2) Most of this is going to be for the teachers that have an original iMac sitting in their classroom (or their house) that is still running MacOS 9.1 (or even 8.6) on it. No, this will not bring in new users directly, but an argument could be made "Well, if we buy new Macs, Apple might keep us with up-to-date operating system upgrades for free in the future."

Re:Hardware Costs

[Erore]

2) Most of this is going to be for the teachers that have an original iMac sitting in their classroom (or their house) that is still running MacOS 9.1 (or even 8.6) on it. No, this will not bring in new users directly, but an argument could be made "Well, if we buy new Macs, Apple might keep us with up-to-date operating system upgrades for free in the future."

Or maybe Apple is trying to both show how nice their new operating system is as well as show how slow the teacher's current hardware is. With one stone they convince people to transition to OS X and they convince people to buy new hardware (or push for it in their budget if it isn't a personal purchase)

Personally, I find this kind of thing (seeding the education market, or discounting products for it) distateful. Apple and Microsoft are for profit companies. Anything they do in the education market is with tainted motives. What school administrators need to ask themselves are what are those motives and what do they cost me(the school) and the students both now and in the future.

If everyone believes that education for our students is of vital importance, why do we do it so poorly and allow commercial entities to have such power? Read the post someone else made about Channel One. That is after my time at school, but it is a perfect example of the drug dealer giving away something for free (the TV, the OS) in order to hook you on a product for life (Pepsi, Apple Hardware). Why do we allow this? The school is the one place were children should be safe from overt advertising.

Re:Hardware Costs

[benedict]

Apple's not forcing this stuff down anyone's
throat. I agree with you that people who run
schools should weigh the costs and the benefits.
But that's their responsibility, not Apple's.

I think it's pretty clear that this is meant to
boost OS X at the expense of OS 9. I don't see
why that would put a bad taste in your mouth.

If you're just saying that this shouldn't be
viewed as philanthropic, then I agree wholeheartedly.
If I ran the IRS, Apple would be allowed to write
off the cost of the materials, but not the retail
value of the software.

Re:Hardware Costs

[gl4ss]

***Or maybe Apple is trying to both show how nice their new operating system is as well as show how slow the teacher's current hardware is. With one stone they convince people to transition to OS X and they convince people to buy new hardware (or push for it in their budget if it isn't a personal purchase)***

windows has this auto built, no need to install newer os to get the once blazing fast computer to act like it had stuffed a bottle of valium up the re****. (and no need to tell this doesnt apply to 2k/xp, it does, the reg system gets pretty clogged up after doing dozens of installs of stupid software and cleaning it needs 3rd party products unless you're hc and use regedit for that..)

Re:Hardware Costs

[pangu]

1) Teachers are already eligible for discounted hardware (just like almost any major computer company, Apple has educational discounts).

Yes they do, and where I used to work it was a rather underwhelming $50 off a roughly $2000 machine. I'd like a Mac just to play with OS X, but the discount was too small to be a real incentive to me.

Damn!

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn! For a moment, I thought they were giving away Atari Jaguars! :-/

So Jobs wants to corner the NEA market...

[Anonymous Coward]

I realize this ain't the politically correct thing to say, but education majors are, uniformly, the slowest, dullest, least motivated students on any major college campus. If that's Jobs' target market, I'm sure Bill G. will be happy to cede it to him.

Even more politically incorrect than that observation will be this question: I don't suppose Jobs will be interested in the millions upon millions of American parents who have taken to home schooling their children - or will he?

Re:So Jobs wants to corner the NEA market...

[Doom Ihl' Varia]

I have to agree on the subject of education majors. The future GOOD teachers usually study in the field they plan to teach. What's the point of learning to "educate" if you are going to teach a history class but don't know the Byzantines from the Romans?

Re:So Jobs wants to corner the NEA market...

[elphkotm]

Even more politically incorrect than that observation will be this question: I don't suppose Jobs will be interested in the millions upon millions of American parents who have taken to home schooling their children - or will he?

I believe Apple has a program that gives discounts to homeschoolers... The same discount they give to teachers. So if you're in the market for Apple hardware, homeschool your kids for a couple months :).

Re:So Jobs wants to corner the NEA market...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're absolutely correct on point #1. Those who graduate with Education degrees are, on average, the students with the lowest SAT/ACT scores.

Point #2. Apple is usually very pro-homeschooling. For instance, they offer their institutional discounts on hardware to homeschoolers -- that's a pretty hefty discount off retail prices. However their press release doesn't mention whether their offer will extend to homeschoolers.

(As a sidenote, Steve Wozniak retired from Apple's Board of Directors so that he could be an elementary school teacher. How cool is that?)

colleges left out in the cold

[Anonymous Coward]

i went down to my university's computer store and the guy there is a big machead like me. i asked him about getting jaguar, since i'd heard several answers to the question of how much the upgrade would really cost, ranging from free to 20 to 70 to the full 120. he said apple yanked their old committment to higher education faculty of a 1 dollar upgrade forcing the faculty to pay the standard educational price of 70. i wonder if this k-12 thing will extend to the universities at some point.

Re:colleges left out in the cold

[llamaluvr]

My college will give any student (and I'm guessing faculty, as well) a free copy (as in the actual CD-full version) of Jaguar if they go to the library and ask for it. Even if they don't even have an Apple.y However, the really keep it on the down-low. I found no mention of it on the school website; it's been a word-of-mouth sort of thing. I'm guessing that my school bought a license from Apple- but it must have been a good deal, or I imagine that they would have been more selective about who they give it to. Microsoft is still a bit more popular with the frugal students here, though. They give away XP Pro and Visual Studio .NET like it's candy!

How does this fuck you over?

[wirelessbuzzers]

Although I would be extremely frustrated in your situation, I don't think that Apple has "ripped you off again." Presumably you thought the upgrade was worth it, otherwise you wouldn't have bought it. I fail to understand how giving other people freebies "fucks you over." Unless those other people are competing with you. Which, unless you have some unusual circumstances, they are not.

Re:How does this fuck you over?

[IamTheRealMike]

Although I would be extremely frustrated in your situation, I don't think that Apple has "ripped you off again." Presumably you thought the upgrade was worth it, otherwise you wouldn't have bought it.

False logic - lots of business have just upgraded to Windows XP due to some fillip of the new licensing regime rather than because they thought it was worth it for instance. If you decided that 10.1 did everything you would ever need and didn't want to upgrade, as time passed your computer would become more and more obsolete, incapable of running newer apps that took advantage of new features added into later versions.

How many people still run Windows 95, even though 98 had few compelling reasons to upgrade (except perhaps real usb support)? The answer - not many. Even Microsoft doesn't support 95 anymore.

Re:How does this fuck you over?

[Anonymous Coward]

False logic - lots of business have just upgraded to Windows XP due to some fillip of the new licensing regime rather than because they thought it was worth it for instance.

No, the logic was correct. You're just an idiot. It was 'worth it' for them to upgrade rather than to completely move their operation over to another OS that didn't have these licensing problems.

Re:How does this fuck you over?

[IamTheRealMike]

No, the logic was correct. You're just an idiot. It was 'worth it' for them to upgrade rather than to completely move their operation over to another OS that didn't have these licensing problems.

That's exactly my point. Whether an OS upgrade is "worth it" often has little to do with the OS itself, and is more to do with how painful would it be to get left behind, how easy would it be to switch to another OS etc. MacOS is not really any different from Windows in terms of licensing, hence all the bitching and moaning about the price of 10.2 - those people clearly didn't think that remaining on 10.1 for ever was really an option.

Re:How does this fuck you over?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am going to have to agree with the previous poster. You are an idiot.

Re:How does this fuck you over?

[Kashif Shaikh]

I fail to understand how giving other people freebies "fucks you over."

It's a cheapshot trying to win you over. This is why IE, Media Player, Messenger, Hotmail, etc. were given away free by Microsoft: it was part of the "value-added" portion of purchasing a Windows OS.

If you don't understand this, then understand drugs. If you want to try drugs, the first couple of 'shots' are free. It's only when your addicted and the same people say, "sorry, but that hit is going to cost you $50 bucks. No money, no drugs". Now you're really fucked monetarily and physically, because you wants the goods badly.

So, to sum it up: you don't get fucked over right away, but it'll happen soon enough. If you ever think someone is giving you something free for nothing, well I'd say 9 out of 10 times you're wrong buddy.

Re:How does this fuck you over?

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting. Did you actually read the comment you replied to?

Re:MOTHERFUCKERS!

[FreeLinux]

If $1700 is such a problem for your school perhaps, you should see about going to another school. It seems like an insignificant amount, even for a small school.

Re:MOTHERFUCKERS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Early hardware adoption is one thing. The manufacturing costs can come down later because of improved manufacturing processes, etc. Software is artificially priced. It doesn't deteriorate the longer it stays on the shelf. Apple can and will charge just as much for it 9 months from now as it charges today. As soon as their software becomes obsolete, it'll get pulled from shelves to make way for their new stuff. There is no sense in waiting for Apple OS software.

Uhh, wait a minute ...

[rotwhylr]

Jaguar is no good without Apple h/w to run it on, right? So, presumably, any teacher taking advantage of this would already have a Mac lying around. Other than preventing their current K-12 teacher customer base from eroding, I can't see what this will gain them.

A more effective way to market their product would be bundle their product with every PC manufactured, become a ruthless competitor, butcher other software companies, become a monopoly, and end up in court fighting the government lawyers before finally ... oh, wait a minute ... no, forget that. It's already been done. /insert apology here for off-topic M$FT bashing/

Re:Uhh, wait a minute ...

[ImaLamer]

Maybe they load it up on their machine running MacOS 9 and see how ______ it is and they write a letter to the principle saying that every class should be with a Mac.

Maybe it's just a tactic to get mindshare. Get the newest, freshest OSX out there and viola! everyone in class will "switch".

Re:Uhh, wait a minute ...

[usr122122121]

write a letter to the principle

Don't you mean the principal?
Ah, the irony of it.

Re:Uhh, wait a minute ...

[benedict]

> Other than preventing their current K-12 teacher
> customer base from eroding, I can't see what
> this will gain them.

I think that's exactly the point of this promotion.

Re:Uhh, wait a minute ...

[PythonOrRuby]

Actually, I think there's quite a bit of principle in standing up to the starched-suit, Windows-devoted, businessmen hordes who typically govern K-12 schools' buying decisions and recommending Macs.

Kids don't need to help Bill Gates rule the world, and they don't need to become experts on Word features they'll never use that'll be obselete after MS' next release.

They need creativity and problem-solving skills. They need basic tools that are a means to an end, rather than an end. Apple provides such tools and as such their computers are the right choice.

Re:Uhh, wait a minute ...

[MattXonn]

Jaguar is no good without Apple h/w to run it on, right? So, presumably, any teacher taking advantage of this would already have a Mac lying around. Other than preventing their current K-12 teacher customer base from eroding, I can't see what this will gain them.

What this gains them is that teachers, who already have a computer, are given the ability to use Mac OS X for themself. Once teachers are familiar with OS X they may start using it in the schools. For Apple, this means there will be less computers running OS 9.

so..

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux has been doing this since its inception.

Re:so..

[spyder913]

At least linux doesn't require special hardware though.

Re:so..

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux has been doing this since its inception.

I must have missed the training software package.

Eligibility...

[singularity]

From http://www.apple.com/education/macosxforteachers/:

Do I qualify?
To qualify for the "X for Teachers" program you must be a K-12 teacher at a recognized school (Public, Private, Catholic, Bureau of Indian Affairs) and you must agree to have software delivered to your school address.

I always love these descriptions. Define "teacher." I work at a residential high school as a resident counselor. True, the name "teacher" is not in my title. However, my job description (as written by the state of Illinois) involves teaching students.

Border's refuses to give me a discount on books (even when purchased for programs with students) because they claim (at least my local Border's) that the discount only applies to people that work in a classroom.

I work with very technology-aware students (I work at a the Illinois Math and Science Academy) and, as a big geek, I am often discussing tech issues and comparing computers with students.

(An upcoming program I am putting together will discuss recent copyright debates that are ongoing, for example).

I think that Apple would want nothing more than for me to have a copy of Jaguar to show off to the students.

And Apple might very well send me a copy of Jaguar, who knows...

Of course, being the good little geek, I pre-purchased an educational-discounted copy and got it before it was available retail. That was $75 out of my pocket that I am guessing Apple is not going to reimburse.

I have to wonder how many teachers have already purchased Jaguar.

I might take them up on the offer and give one of the copies to a student.

Re:Eligibility...

[ReadParse]

I think if you can get into the Teachers' Lounge, you should qualify for every teacher deal there is (there aren't enough of them anyway).

Re:Eligibility...

[poiu]

FYI: Illinois Math & Science Academy (IMSA) is a very famuous state funded honors high school.

IMSA is almost certainly qualified.

Re:Eligibility...

[MaximumBob]

With all due respect, resident counselor at IMSA is NOT a teaching job. I think the most accurate thing I can come up with is "academic support."

Unless they've substantially changed RC's jobs in the last few years, there's really no educational purpose to giving him free software, nor does it serve the marketing purpose I imagine Apple has for this.

Re:Eligibility...

[Anonymous Coward]

it's lignux

Re:Eligibility...

[Anonymous Coward]

Bah. I went to Naperville North High School, and while I was a student there, our math team defeated IMSA 3 years in a row. I believe it was 1995, 1996, 1997.

Eat that.

Re:Eligibility...

[Anonymous Coward]

My wife is also a high school counselor. We ordered it last night. I was just about to buy it with my student discount (I am NOT a student at her school! I am going back to get my BSN! lol) and am glad I didn't. Now we get to update our iMac for free. I am running 10.1.5 right now.

I really scored with my wife, she took a early retirement from being a flight attendant and we get 4 free flights a year and now a free OS!!! What a deal!!!

Re:Eligibility...

[Anonymous Coward]

Think like a Japanese businessman and instead of making a paper company, make a paper school! Just good enough to be formally ok.. not too expensive. And it'll be legit, too, 'cause you're a teacher!

Re:Eligibility...

[Anonymous Coward]

I really scored with my wife...

Quit gloating! This is Slashdot: News for Nerds!

Bottom Line

[one9nine]

Yes, Apple may have an agenda but the bottom line is schools are getting free shwag. It's always good to see and I wish more companies would follow suit both in and outside the tech industry. It's also good to see that kids will get more of an opportunity to be exposed to more than just Windows.

The bigger problem is having school districts reponsibly spend the extra money they will save.

Re:Bottom Line

[IamTheRealMike]

Yes, Apple may have an agenda but the bottom line is schools are getting free shwag. It's always good to see and I wish more companies would follow suit both in and outside the tech industry.

So you're for the type of school privatization that we're seeing in the UK then, where companies pay for textbooks, buildings, teaching materials in return for students using only branded stuff, and only being able to buy new stationary etc from one location?

I'd think it's pretty easy for local authorities to turn a blind eye to corporates giving schools free stuff, only to later find that their budgets are now dependant upon corporate aid.

Re:Bottom Line

[foyle]

The bigger problem is having school districts reponsibly spend the extra money they will save.

That is a huge problem. One of the local schools near where I live just finished spending $12 million to upgrade the sports complex. Astroturf football field, bigger stadium, clay running tracks, etc. The best part is that they've always had a parking problem and they built a bigger stadium where the parking lot used to be and didn't build any more parking. Doh!

Re:Bottom Line

[tealover]

Is that really how it works in Britain? That's a bit odd when you think how the British tv system worked for so long; No commericals, citizens pay an annual fee. Commercialization of schools seems much more insidious. But with many budgets being tapped these days, where else are they going ot get the money?

Ahh, life. Quandries abound.

Re:Bottom Line

[IamTheRealMike]

Is that really how it works in Britain? That's a bit odd when you think how the British tv system worked for so long; No commericals, citizens pay an annual fee. Commercialization of schools seems much more insidious. But with many budgets being tapped these days, where else are they going ot get the money?

Thankfully, no, not yet. It's been talked about a lot though, and a few experiments have been done. I believe one or two "failing" state schools have been taken over by a company, and that sort of thing has indeed gone on. The schools got new buildings (schwag), but had all sorts of conditions placed upon them.

Note that New Labour isn't really left wing at all, they have privatised pretty much everything they possibly could. We still pay for TV because the BBC is far too big and popular to change now.

That's what I'm worried about in a way - these companies seem to be using schools as a kind of playing field for their products. If their products didn't involve any other conditions I'd be fine - no problems with giving out free textbooks etc as long as no favours were expected later. The main problem I see is that a proprietary platform by definition has conditions attached, namely that in future you will be under pressure to upgrade when discounts may not be available, and that it's hard to stop using them etc etc.

Re:Bottom Line

[benedict]

Your larger point is well made, but note that this
program is only useful to those who've already
invested in Macintosh hardware.

Re:Bottom Line

[Natalie's Hot Grits]

"...getting free shwag"

Only shwag... Too bad apple doesn't make any dank computers :(

Re:Bottom Line

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, Apple may have an agenda but the bottom line is schools are getting free shwag.

An admirable view, though one seldom echoed when it comes to MS's steep educational discounts.

Re:Bottom Line

[Monkelectric]

Disney sends free "shwag" to my mother (a 3rd grade teacher) -- whatever piece of crap movie they are hyping she gets a care package -- *lots of* disney themed learning software (pocahontas, dalmations, etc), complete sets of mc donalds affiliate toys to give to the kids, books, etc.

Of course because the school shes at has an equiptment budget of 1000$ a year (for *all* of your expenses), shes happy to have software and toys to give the kids.

But of course the kids rush right out and see the movie -- exactly what disney wants ...

So my question to you is -- Is disneys manipulation more, less, or equally evil compared to apple ?

Someone teach at Slashdot?

[TheVidiot]

I notice the new aqua-type design... running OSX now?

(ha)

Re:Someone teach at Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

They've had the aqua thing for a long time.

Not only that...

[anthony_dipierro]

My parents are both teachers, but I'm not about to put OS X on their Performa 5200... Not only do they need an Apple computer, they need a relatively new Apple computer.

Re:Not only that...

[Hollinger]

I remember the 5200; it's slowly migrated away from my desk to the attic; I imagine it still works, but I absolutely despise the 603e processor they stuck in it; the 6840's seemed so much faster. Not to mention that I remember seeing one on ebay for a whole $50. And that was at the end of the auction.

Re:Not only that...

[anthony_dipierro]

My parents have a celeron as well, which is what they use mostly. My mother refuses to do her lesson plans on anything but Appleworks, and she refuses to use Appleworks for Windows which I installed for her. I used to have a 6200 (I think) with a 603e. That was actually what convinced me to switch to Windows.

Linux Free for K-12 Teachers

[dlc915]

Apple Gives Jaguar Free to All U.S. K-12 Teachers

October 17, 2002--Linux today announced its "X for Teachers" program that gives a free copy of the Linux kernel version 2.4.19 "Stable" to every K-12 teacher in the U.S. Linux combines a stable and robust POSIX-based foundation with KDE/Gnome's legendary ease-of-use to create the world's most advanced operating system for teaching, learning and administration. The free copy of Linux is accompanied by free copies of Linux's Digital Hub applications-Xine for digital video viewing, the GIMP for editing digital photos and XMMS for building a digital audio library.

"Getting a Red Hat or Mandrake install CD for free makes it easy for teachers to move to Linux, so they can spend more time using technology in the classroom and less time making it all work," said Tux the Penguin, Linux's vice president of Education. "Linux has delivered innovative products to teachers and schools for over 9 years, and 2.4.19 stable is our best ever."

Re:Linux Free for K-12 Teachers

[MoneyT]

There isn't a single k-12 teacher I can think of save for computer science teachers that could install, run or even download and make an immage of the linux CDs. That is why linux being free isn't news. That and because linux has always been free, so the norm is not news

Just ignore me!

[TheVidiot]

Working on a Sunday has scrambled my brains!

Funny

[TekReggard]

So if Microsoft complains does that make them hypocritic? That would be great to see on national media, "Microsoft claims Apple anti-competative by giving away software for free.". hahaha an entire OS no less.

Re:Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

No. It makes most of /. look like hypocrites because they complained when MS started cutting deals with schools, but applaud Apple for doing the same thing.

Re:Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

No one at Slashdot is a hypocrit... (At least not for this) we complained about Microsoft giving software to education for free as a proposed remedy for its ilegal behavior... which in essence furthered their illegal monopoly.

Where are my troll moderating points when I need them...

Re:Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

No one at Slashdot is a hypocrit... (At least not for this) we complained about Microsoft giving software to education for free as a proposed remedy for its ilegal behavior... which in essence furthered their illegal monopoly.

Nice try. But /. posters have been complaining about Microsoft's education deals since before the antitrust case.

Where are my troll moderating points when I need them...

You don't have any because you are an AC, dickcheese.

Re:Funny

[TekReggard]

Thanks for clearing that up, :) I was curious as to how that would work out. My post was in fact an honest question :p :)

Re:MOTHERFUCKERS!

[mekkab]

its a bitch.

Apple and its stores pretty much say "Ooops, we did it again! And we already have your money. too bad"

P.S.- thanks to you, I now have that Dead Kennedy's song stuck in my head. (thats a good thing- for the past few days I've had that dreadful new Paul Oakenfold tripe on repeat in my brain)

This is a good thing

[madsenj37]

because a lot of schools have imacs and older ox capable machines but they never upgrade right away. Now they can upgrade for freewithout worrying where the money came from. If you are complaining that you had to pay for the upgrade when now you can get it for free, guess what? When technology comes out it is always more expensive than when you wait.

Re:This is a good thing

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

Its Called Keeping the Edu Market

[jeramybsmith]

Apple once owned the edu market but nowadays it actually has to compete. Now, a teacher with a lab full of os9/osx.1 computers from a year ago wont be able to get budget moey to buy the jaguar upgrades. So apple is offering free jaguar to keep them happy. Jaguar is what osx.0 _should_ have been. Don't assume its just a bugfix upgrade.

AND.. The campain you never heard about;

[eddy]

Apple is serving every xbox developer too! ;-)

It's all about consistency. You can have the most amazingly creative design but if it doesn't hold up the whole way through it breaks down in the mind of the consumer [...]

What do we have here?

[idontneedanickname]

This is ironic, the Gates Foundation gave a $1 million grant to fund the project in Maine... Gates (Bill) gives money to Maine to buy Macs? I just thought that was slightly amusing...

(btw, check the site for refference, it's on the right)

Re:What do we have here?

[bsane]

Probably only to cover the cost of licensing MSOffice for all of those macs. Otherwise those kids might have learned how to use some other word processor/spread sheet.

smart move

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is really working to reconnect with the educational market, which has been upgrade-averse for many years now. Starting a few years ago, there was a great influx of former Informix folks who went over to Infinite Loop after IBM's purchase of the database company. Despite Informix's perennial difficulties, they were excellent at selling into the government markets, which has given Apple several high-profile entries into statewide ed markets, such as the massive iBook sale to Maine.

This is just the other side of the pincer: get schools used to seeing copies of MacOS X come into the mailroom, and teachers used to using the OS. It's good marketing, and a good idea.

Bet they aren't

[PaddyM]

Giving away any of that "cheap" apple hardware though.

What's the difference?

[KFury]

With Jaguar, Apple's never made a distinction between an upgrade and an OS purchase. Everyone who has a machine that can run Jaguar already has a version of the Mac OS, so what's the difference between calling it an upgrade or not?

Re:What's the difference?

[rjrjr]

Everyone who has a machine that can run Jaguar already has a version of the Mac OS, so what's the difference between calling it an upgrade or not?

No. Plenty of G3 based iMacs and towers were sold before OS X did anything resembling ship. And given enough memory, they run it quite nicely, thank you.

Re:What's the difference?

[KFury]

"Everyone who has a machine that can run Jaguar already has a version of the Mac OS, so what's the difference between calling it an upgrade or not?"

No. Plenty of G3 based iMacs and towers were sold before OS X did anything resembling ship. And given enough memory, they run it quite nicely, thank you.

I said all Macs that can run Jaguar already have a version of the Mac OS. I didn't say they had a version of OS X.

Re:What's the difference?

[rjrjr]

Now, see, that's why people shouldn't post before coffee. That's what I'm saying.

Oops.

Re:What's the difference?

[KFury]

Fair 'nuff!

Give the gift of X

[bobdotorg]

I did this for my mom about 10 minutes after Apple made the announcement. I felt authorized, given that I'm her sysadmin.

Go to:
http://www.apple.com/education/macosxforteach ers/i ndex2.html

fill in the zip code of the school of your favorite teacher, and then enter their name and email. OSX will be sent to them. Takes 90 seconds.

P.S. This was announced days ago. What took it so long to make /.?

This is a very good thing

[davisshaver]

I am a 8th grade student at a Middle School who is running the yearbook team. I am the sole user of a G3 with the 21 inch CRT display. I love the computer for what it is, and I am even gladder now that I can ask my advisor to order Jaguar from that site for me. Right now the G3 is crashing twice a week, and i want to have some more peace of mind, espcially so I do not have to upload the pictures and templates every night. THANK YOU APPL!

Re:This is a very good thing

[Anonymous Coward]

That's impossible, macs don't crash...all the commercials say so. they "just work".

Re:This is a very good thing

[jchristopher]

I hate to break it to you, but OS X is so slow on the G3 that you might as well not bother.

Re:This is a very good thing

[SeanWithoutPants]

Nopers. Simply pump the thing up with ram and you should be fine.

I'm running 10.2.x on a 350 mhz g3 and am quite satisfied with the performance. Granted it could be faster (what couldn't?!) but it is not near as slow as many of the posters seem to think it is...imo

Davisshaver, I think you'll love the stability which comes with OS X. I have been running OS X since 10.1.5 and have only had one crash that required a restart. I think I was fooling around with the firewire port at the time, too.

Regards,
Sean

Re:This is a very good thing

[noewun]

Then apparently Coca Cola and Powerbars are highly hallucinogenic when taken together, cause my 500 MHz G3 is zipping along in 10.2 as we speak! And I'm playing mp3s! And watching hits bounce of my firewall!

Who wants a hit?

Re:This is a very good thing

[prestomation]

"I love the computer for what it is, and I am even gladder now that I can ask my advisor to order Jaguar from that site for me."

I can tell you're in 8th grade, it should be "even more glad" instead of "even gladder"

I shouldn't be talking, because I'm also in 8th grade :)
Really! I am!

With comments like this

[Space Coyote]

You'd think the average slashdotter would whine and bitch if he realized he paid full price for a beer just before happy hour.

Really a deal for someone in subsidized housing.

[fmaxwell]

There are counties in the U.S. where the starting salary for teachers qualifies them to live in government subsidized housing. Few such teachers can afford to blow $1,200 or more on an iMac.

Here's a wild idea: Apple could price their computers such that an entry level iMac costs what an entry level Intel-architecture PC does. They could stop trying to be the Bang & Olufson of computers and build machines that teachers and students could readily afford. Not only would that get teachers and students on board, but also make the machines more appealing to the public at large. Instead, Apple seems to be doing just the opposite by integrating expensive LCDs into their entry level iMacs and not selling an entry level machine sans monitor so that consumers can go to Best Buy and purchase a cheap 15"-17" monitor.

Did they buy Atari?

[sharkey]

Apple is giving away Jaguars?

Re:Did they buy Atari?

[Namtar]

Wow. Such a powerful flashback I fell out of the chair.

And in a related story...

[fmaxwell]

...Bentley is offering all K-12 teachers free 19" 5-spoke split-rim titanium bolted alloy wheels with and Pirelli P-Zero tires with the purchase of any Bentley Arnage T!

Already Payed for Jaguar

[Nazmun]

At least one of my teachers have already payed for jaguar to upgrade from os 10.1 to 10.2.

Excuse me?

[Ghoser777]

No, I'm not slow, dull, and unmotivated. But wait, I'm an education major! How could that be? I must be some reject from the math department, right? No wait, I remember why I went into teaching: it was because I valued helping others more than making money. Am I motivated? Hmmm... I dunno, I guess the fact that it worries me that if I don't perform well as a teacher, I could be hurting the abilities of hundreds of students to perform well in math.

You're way over generalizing. I know plenty of "regular" physics, chemistry, ECE, EE, CS, and [insert your major] majors who are completely unmotivated, are as slow as molasses, and really didn't take much away from high school. They aren't stupid, per se, they just don't care. I'll grant that some teachers aren't the sharpest, and some of them were probably referred to teaching because they weren't very successful in other areas. But the majority of the rest of us that feel a calling to help students, partly because we saw such horrible teaching in the past, don't fit your description.

And I believe Apple has a program for home schoolers as well. I'm not sure about this specific deal, but you can read more about Apple's home school connection here:

http://www.apple.com/education/k12/homeschool/

Matt Fahrenbacher
Senior in Mathematics and Education
University of Illinois @ Urbana-Champaign

No, thanks

[HungWeiLo]

Jaguars...nothing but $100,000 Ford Taurus nowadays anyways...Oh, THAT Jaguar.

Only until December 31?

[fermion]

I am disappointed that this program expires in December. If I were a teacher and wanted to buy a Mac, it would make the purchase much more attractive if I were given free upgrades for the life of the machine.

As many people note, Macintoshes are not cheap machines, and may be out of the price range of the average teacher(and do not tell me it is out the price range of all or most teachers, because I know that that statement is false). Apple is also losing market share in the education market mostly due to better marketing by Dell. By offering teachers free OS, they reduce future uncertainty over cost, give then a reliable simple OS, and free them from the MS licensing nightmare.

If Apple were to give away the OS to teachers, that would help a lot, and would not cost them a lot. An apple will generally last through 2 to 3 major upgrade cycles, which may be a couple hundred dollars lost to Apple. That seems a small price to help convince millions of teachers to make their next computer a Mac.

BTW, one issue sometimes brought up but not often fully discussed is the licensing of software to schools by MS. For many people the cost of the computer is only a small part of the total IT cost. Buying software can easily get to be 2/3 of the cost over the life of the machine. Part of the reason that MS is gung ho to force schools to license MS software is so that the software will appear free to the end user, thus artificially reducing the cost of the wintel machine, and increasing the number of student who will buy wintel machines. Although MS also licenses software it makes for the Mac, there is far more 'free' software available for the PC. I have known several people who would have and should have bought Macs, but bought Wintel machines because of the 'free' software.

Re:Only until December 31?

[Natalie's Hot Grits]

"I have known several people who would have and should have bought Macs..."

I am unaware of any situation where one 'should' buy a Mac. But some people would like to think such situations actually do exist.

BTW, teachers are among the poorest of americans with jobs, you expect them to buy a mac for > 2x the cost? riiight.

Now that I think about it, how come no teachers post on /. ?

Re:Only until December 31?

[Gilmoure]

All new Macs come with OSX 10.2. Free 10.2 to K-12 teachers is so they can install it on their existing Macs. All Apple's trying to do is push migration to the new OS.

Re:Only until December 31?

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that I think about it, how come no teachers post on /. ?


Because they're using the tiny amount of free time they have left in thier lives for something worthwhile, like being with thier family?

Re:Only until December 31?

[MoneyT]

Most teachers I know use macs. We had one teacher at the highschool I worked at who bitched and moaned when we first set him up with an iMac. At the end of the year, he had been promoted to assistant principal at the school and the office he moved into had a PC. The day after he moved in, he called us in to get rid of the PC and bring back his mac. Last I heard, he was seriosly considering buying an iBook.

Re:Only until December 31?

[MacDaffy]

First! Second! Neutral! Park!
Hie thee hence, thou leafy narc!

Boy, would I like to run OS X at home...

[Pemdas]

But the numbers just don't work. From Apple's website, I would want a 2-processor 1Ghz G4 Powermac, 17" LCD, 512MB of memory, 80GB hard drive. Pretty reasonable specs.

That computer would cost me over $3000. Looking over at Dell's website, a similary configured PC, which a better video card, and a 2 Ghz P4 instead of the 2x1Ghz G4's, would run me about half that.

Some specifics that jump out at me: Apple wants $400 for 512MB of PC2700 memory. Dell wants $200. I can get the appropriate module from crucial for $170, so Apple's markup is well over 100%.

The LCD is similar; apple's 17" LCD display runs $1000. Dell will charge me $500. I can get a nice samsung model for about $590 online.

I really, REALLY like what I've seen of OS X, but I won't pay 100% premiums on hardware just to be able to run it.

Re:Boy, would I like to run OS X at home...

[benedict]

Don't be an idiot. You can use your Crucial RAM
and generic LCD screen with a Mac. I just bought
256 MB of RAM for an old iMac for the princely
sum of $42 -- from Crucial.

Re:Boy, would I like to run OS X at home...

[mithras the prophet]

The towers are widely agreed to be a terrible deal. I wouldn't buy one either.

However, the iMacs, iBooks, and Powerbooks are much more competitive, with perhaps a zero to three hundred dollar markup relative to PCs, but plenty of other benefits to offset it.

As for the displays, well, you're free to use any other display you want with your Mac. But even Cnet agrees that they're the highest-quality displays you can get (and they generally hate Macs).

I agree with you on the components thing though. Apple needs to get the extra-memory-and-drives markups back in line with reality.

Re:Boy, would I like to run OS X at home...

[foo12]

Yes, and you cna buy the same LCD display in WalMart for $400. But the image pobably looks like ass and stand and case are probably cheaply made. If you're looking to price a comprable product, look to IBM ($950 for a 1280x1024 18.1") or Sony (US$900 for 1280x1024, 17.0")

Re:Boy, would I like to run OS X at home...

[JoshWurzel]

I have to know...which fantasy world do you live in where you have to buy everything from Apple? The only people I know who pay that 100% markup are people who honestly have nothing better to do with their money and so much constraint on their time that they can't be troubled to search around.

Don't want 512 from Apple for $400? Fine, buy it elsewhere. Don't want to pay $1000 for an Apple LCD? Fine, buy one elsewhere. Suddenly your $3000 machine is $2500. And why do you need dual-GHz for OS X? It runs fine on my dual-800, and fine on my roommate's dual-500.

Switch to a base dual-867, and we're down to $1700 plus tax.

Quit yer bitchin and do your research.

Re:Boy, would I like to run OS X at home...

[TeddyR]

How about this for a markup...

HP 4000 printer memory... HP wants over $400.00 for it when Kingston sells the equiv. for $36.00...

http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/configurator/mod el sinfo.asp?SysID=+5325+&distributor=0&submit=Fi nd

[I know its not a fair comparison... but since the Kingston model has a lifetime warrenty... etc.... and WORKS.... so who is really at the disadvantage here]

Re:Boy, would I like to run OS X at home...

[MoneyT]

Ok, to start, even if you don't believe the 2x faster Mhz Myth bit that Apple claims ( and I don't) there is a definate difference between mac and PC processors, and not just in the Mhz rating. The dual 1 Ghz bit seems a bit steep for your system requirements.

Second, you would be crazy to buy a memory upgrade from anywhere except a third party and install it yourself. Apple Dell gateway will all over charge for extra memory. No suprise there.

I have yet to see (except in some really really expensive models) an LCD screen that rivals the one's Apple uses. Seriously, go to and Apple store, play with the LCDs there, then go to a PC store, the difference is incredible.

Not only that, but again, you need to factor in the bits and pieces that Dell isn't giving you (firewire, gigabit ethernet, check the speeds on the super-drive that dell gives you if you get one, the Apple one is generaly a better spec one than most of the PC companies are selling) and which OS does the Dell come with, and what about M$ office (yes Apple works doesn't quite compare, but it sure beats the hell out of notepad).

Also, I see Apple only wanting $200 more to upgrade the dual Ghz from 256 to 512.

I'm not saying the Mac comes out cheaper. In 90% of the cases, the towers are horrible deals. But their laptops compete.

Re:Boy, would I like to run OS X at home...

[MoNickels]

Listen, the only Mac users who buy directly from the Apple sites are those who already get discounts, or those who are very uninformed (like you, apparently).

Long-time Mac users DON'T buy directly from Apple. First, we don't want to pay sales tax. If I order from Warehouse.com, I don't. Second, we don't necessarily insist on having an Apple-branded LCD or RAM. We save hundreds there. Third, we like to get the freebies from the online vendors: extra ram, the floppy drive, the low-end inkjet printer.

Now it is true that some of the very high-end specifications are only available on the Apple site, but I believe those high-end machines are only marginally better. The savings of not buying directly from Apple are a better choice.

Plus you would be surprised how often the line "Is that the best price you can give me?" cuts the price even just a little bit more when you're on the telephone with a mail order or online vendor. Apple does no such thing.

Double standard? Yup.

[JonTurner]

Yeah, but everytime Microsoft gives away/subsidizes MS software to Schools/Universities the whole Slashdot world erupts into riot. The cries of "Monopoly!" and "brainwashing students" and "conflict of interest" are plentiful.

Now Apple decides to give away their next-gen OS and everyone here thinks that's a great gesture.

Double standard? Definitely. Hypocrytical? It sure looks like it.

Re:Double standard? Yup.

[Incongruity]

Yeah, but everytime Microsoft gives away/subsidizes MS software to Schools/Universities the whole Slashdot world erupts into riot.

Seems to me that the only time that such action on Microsoft's part really brought about a major outcry was when they offered to do such as penalty/in settlement for what the government and many /.'ers deemed monopolistic practices. Now that is a completely different situation than the one that is currently at hand with Apple.

Apple is not offering to give away their software and a bunch of hardware because they've had charges of unfair trade practices leveled against them. Apple is clearly trying to win the hearts, minds and screens of teachers, and thus students, but how is that different from anything that any marketing ploy ever does?

So in a way, you are right, there is a similar motivation between what Microsoft offered to do and what Apple is doing but the reason that your point doesn't stand up, in my opinion, is that the context of their actions is different. Apple is doing it simply as a marketing scheme, Microsoft did it as an attempt to get away without any stronger penalty for the charges brought against them. Therefore, in light of the dramatically dfferent contexts of the two cases, it seems to me that the differential reaction by the /. masses is completely understandable and justified.

-tcp

Re:Double standard? Yup.

[Natalie's Hot Grits]

I never said I think this is a good thing for anybody. In fact, I hate anything having to do with apple. The general concensus on slashdot, from my POV, is that most of the cluefull people really don't give a shit about apple, and just tollerate the mac zealots. Since you can't convince a mac zealot that their precious G4 and twisted idea of UNIX that is OSX isn't all that, its not worth the argument.

Though, I can see how the minority of people that like apple can make it look like slashdot likes apple. But this is a problem with the moderation system. If you notice, any post negative to apple == negative karma, every post positive to apple == positive karma. Since the moderators are a minority(on a given day), I can see how this easilly happens.

Re:Double standard? Yup.

[furballphat]

Though, I can see how the minority of people that like apple can make it look like slashdot likes apple. But this is a problem with the moderation system. If you notice, any post negative to apple == negative karma, every post positive to apple == positive karma. Since the moderators are a minority(on a given day), I can see how this easilly happens.

So, since dog food tasters are a minority, and people who can speak Klingon are a minority, do all dog food tasters speak Klingon?

Re:Double standard? Yup.

[Natalie's Hot Grits]

actually, my post just says that the possibility exists for them to be all mac zealots. In reality, all the moderators aren't mac zealots. However, given that it only takes a few moderators out of many to mark up most positive mac comments, and mark down most negative mac comments, it is certaintly possible for this to happen each day.

Since the rest of the /. crew I am assuming to be careless about macs, they will not go against the smaller portion of moderators who mod comments relating to macs.

My assumption is that there are more mac zealots than people who are willing to refute the inaccuracies of a mac zealot(likely, because it isn't worth their time), therefore, its easy for this situation to happen each day.

If that wasn't clear in the first post, I hope it is now.

(BTW, I think I might be slightly wrong about the OSX Jag requiring a T&L engine, but it does require a 3d video card (I think the rage128's work) anyone know more?

Re:Double standard? Yup.

[zonker]

"Since you can't convince a mac zealot that their precious G4 and twisted idea of UNIX that is OSX isn't all that, its not worth the argument."

well, imho i think it's probably due to unix being nothing more than a trademark now. i mean, if you think linux is unix, you'd be incorrect. most things called unix aren't. unix-like would probably be more appropriate to say, but most people don't know the difference...

Re:Double standard? Yup.

[jweatherley]

(BTW, I think I might be slightly wrong about the OSX Jag requiring a T&L engine, but it does require a 3d video card (I think the rage128's work) anyone know more?

I guess you're going on about Quartz Extreme here. If you want Quartz (the graphics layer) to be accelerated you need an AGP graphics card with >16MB of RAM (ideally >32MB). Jaguar will run without this though. It just won't be as fast when you start putting half a dozen transparent terminals on top of the DVD player.

Re:Double standard? Yup.

[Anonymous Coward]

> Yeah, but everytime Microsoft gives away/subsidizes MS software to Schools/Universities the whole Slashdot world erupts into riot. The cries of "Monopoly!" and "brainwashing students" and "conflict of interest" are plentiful.

How many times does it need to be said that a convicted monopolist must behave differently than other companies, that the same rules Do Not apply?

Re:Pathetic Sellings Points

[LMariachi]

Tell me once again why these applications matter to me and the millions more like me?

I guess they don't. Better write a lengthy post on Slashdot about them.

Giving it away for free?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's still too expensive.

Slashdot is slow

[RoC MasterMind]

Usually slashdot isn't that bad on news speed, but this story has been out for a while and JesusGeeks has already covered it.

Homeschoolers Need Not Apply

[JonTurner]

http://www.apple.com/education/macosxforteachers/i ndex2.html
"You must be a K-12 teacher currently employed in a public, private, or charter school to qualify for participation in this program. This offer is limited to eligible K-12 teachers and is not available to resellers, institutions, home schools, non- teacher K-12 school employees, preservice/student teachers, or higher education faculty (including college of education faculty)."

I'm really quite surprised at this snub. Apple has always had a very positive history of supporting homeschoolers, even offering institutional discounts to HS'ers. Until now, I suppose.

Thanks for nothing, Apple.

Re:Homeschoolers Need Not Apply

[ianscot]

Apple has always had a very positive history of supporting homeschoolers

A history for which you're rewarding them with your enduring good faith in return, seemingly.

Out of curiosity, how does someone who home schools work things like tax exemption? Do you have to get it all back in April every year, or what? Do you have any ID that certifies your status as a home schooler? I'm not trying to explain this Aplpe thing away, just asking.

I was in an Apple store on saturday; someone was trying to get an educator's discount on something with no real documentation, and I wondered how that worked. Sure seemed like the employee was trying to do right by the person.

Re:Homeschoolers Need Not Apply

[JonTurner]

>>Apple has always had a very positive history of supporting homeschoolers
>A history for which you're rewarding them with your enduring good faith in return, seemingly.
Yes, I'm disappointed. Like the majority of Slashdot readers, my loyalty can be bought. Unlike most /. readers, I admit it. ;)

"Out of curiosity, how does someone who home schools work things like tax exemption? Do you have to get it all back in April every year, or what?
No, there are no deductions whatsoever. Every dollar spent on textbooks, supplemental classes at the University, field trips, equipment (software, calculators, lab supplies), etc. comes directly out of our family budget. There is no "reimbursement" or tax break of any sort available to us.

Do you have any ID that certifies your status as a home schooler? I'm not trying to explain this Aplpe thing away, just asking. "
Every state is different; some are much more controlling than others. My state has nothing in the way of ID cards, etc. Generally, proof of membership in a homeschool-related organization such as the HomeSchool Legal Defense Association (HSLDA.com) or a copy of the Notice of Intent which declares the homeschool to the state Department of Education is sufficient evidence for retailers that yes, you're a homeschooler.

Re:Pathetic Moron Ranting Above

[mikedaisey]

If you can't figure out why easy-to-use, effective and free movie and image editing software isn't good for education you're totally pathetic. There are numerous stories at the Apple site, testimonials from ACTUAL teachers detailing how Macs are making a difference in their schools...so STFU.

You ask why the applications should matter to you when you don't use any peripherals? Maybe they don't. But to rant about email servers and forget that students can pick up a hell of a lot from the tools given to them is just lame.

Must They

[Daveman692]

Can any teacher get this upgrade or must they actually own a Mac? Becuase think about it this way, a school employs 80 teachers and most likely doesn't have 80 Macs but doesn't want to buy 30 copies for their lab. If all 80 teachers get a copy then the School now has 80 liscenses of Jaguar. Upgrading the lab is no longer a problem.

Re:Pathetic Sellings Points

[benedict]

iTunes is useful for anyone with CDs and some
hard drive space who wants to turn their computer
into a smart jukebox.

I guess that's not you, but it doesn't require
iPod, digital camera, or video camera.

I think it's good for kids to create stuff, and
they like to do that sort of thing. So digital
editing for schools makes a lot of sense to me.
My fifth-grade class performed The Mikado, and I
imagine it would have been pretty cool if we could
have filmed it and made a DVD from it. I think
kids should know that DVDs don't have to be made
by Hollywood, they can be made by people too.

continuity

[jlechem]

the way I see it apple gets a 2 fold benefit from this move. They are making sure that one of their biggest user groups ( the educational market) is using OS X. And they get a huge PR bonus out of it, Look at us! We gave away a free copy of our OS to teachers. Imagine what their Karma must look like.

I hope the i386 port is on the CD!

[teknikl]

I'm a high school computer science teacher teaching PASCAL, C++ and Java - using Linux of course. I'd *like* to switch (or at least DEMO) for the kids to see that Unix is now underlying a retail desktop OS. But I've got a room full of Intel PC's. And every Mac you can buy now comes with Jaguar on it already. So I guess I'm wondering, "Whats the Point, Apple?"

Re:I hope the i386 port is on the CD!

[lemkebeth]

The point is to allow teachers to upgrade cheaply so there is a larger OS X base and two so Apple keeps the edu market it has.

There is no i386 on those CDs. If the i386 port does exist it is only being used for testing purposes.

Want to show them? Bring in a PowerBook or iBook and show them.

Side note: They teach computer science in high school now?!? 8O

When I was in high school the most advanted thing they taught was BASIC and that was a technical high school

dweeb

[Anonymous Coward]

dweeb

Bombs ahoy!

i am a seventh grade teacher

[b17bmbr]

apple needs to do something about the hardware. it is just too expensive as far as schools are concerned. it is an example of being pennywise and pound foolish, but my district sees a dell for say $600 and an imac for say $850, and they'll choose the dell every time. plus, most district people, like mine (ARGHHHHH!!!) can't even spell unix.

i bought an ibook a couple of weeks ago. it has 10.2. i love it. but the problem is more hardware than software. a few years ago, schools began moving toward PC's, and os x is just not going to work.

Re:i am a seventh grade teacher

[berniecase]

Use total cost of ownership as a reason for your school, or district, to keep purchasing Macs. Print this page out, research it, and hand it to them, if you feel the need.

I work for a company that has a lot of customers in the education space, and sells a product that works on Windows and Linux. Both products offer almost the same functionality, but the Windows version has a much smaller learning curve than the Linux version. School districts will go with the Linux version because they find out they can get Linux for next to nothing. Sure, the initial investment might be smaller, but in the long run, you're going to spend more to either a) get someone on staff who knows Linux well, or b) learn how to use Linux yourself. I'm not bashing Linux, but if you've never used it before, it might not be the best choice of platform. I hope you can see how this relates to the Mac vs. PC debate in schools.

Re:i am a seventh grade teacher

[b17bmbr]

you know, funny story about the mac vs.pc thing. last week, one of my fellow teachers says she is going to take her basic math class into the mac lab because the pc lab is booked. she says to me she is concerned because she doesn't know macs, she only knows pc's. so, i ask her how to congifure your network settings under windows. she looks at me with a blank stare. i tell her you know applications, not OS's. (well, i know os's, linux for sure, and am falling in love with os x, and damn sure know windows, though by having to admin them damn things, oh the pain and agony, anyways...)

preaching to the conveted

[job0]

Not sure how much this will help Apple. This is one of their biggest markets already and they already lots of special deals already for educators on hardware and software. Maybe they should have gone for colleges as well but I guess the marketing dollars wouldn't stretch that far.

No, it hasn't.

[repetty]

Linux is free, but it hasn't been a deliverable. Red Hat, Suse and other distributors have given Linux "OS packages" away at times, but overall, Linux remains "come and get what we have"... and this is not what Apple and MS have been doing.

To non-technical users, there's a world of difference.

--Richard

Long ago? It was.

[Gruneun]

This should have been done long ago.

Where were you in the 80's? There was a time when any class that had a computer had an Apple. The AppleIIe and AppleIIgs were about the only thing around schools then, because Apple dumped them at rock-bottom prices and got students hooked.

Big Deal

[RedWolves2]

Linux has been giving away it's OS for years to teachers and anyone else who wants it. ;-)

Re:Pathetic Moron Ranting Above (ditto)

[Erore]

Explain to me why easy-to-use, effective and free movie and image editing software is good for education so I won't be pathetic. I don't see where this free software is useful in a math class. Are students going to video tape their book reports? Is that the purpose of a book report, to put on a show? Or is it to learn how to critically read the material, formulate an argument, and present it in front of people? What about chemistry class? A student could video the experiments, add commentary, and show it around. But, the purpose of the experiments was to have hands on experience following procedures, recording observations, handling the equipment, measuring, etc. It was not to see the red liquid turn clear. If that was the purpose, teachers would only show video tapes of experiments done by professionals and the school could forgo the expense of a chemistry lab.

These tools could be useful in education. But to what end? At what expense? With what trade-offs.

I looked at Apple's website again, as you asked, but, without a thorough search, I found only one instance of a teacher using the iTools. She was a professor and she used the tools, not the student. I would also argue her use of the tools was excellent. But, I've also seen video tapes of professional documentaries that had the same type of information.Cost of the video tapes, $60. Cost of her Mac, $1100. Sure, she'll be able to make more videos for her class without paying again for the Mac, but that is about 18 videos. I wonder how many years it will be before she has the time and inclination to create 18 videos in support of her class teaching? Will it be before she feel's compelled to purchase a new machine?

Reading my original post I realize that I didn't make my points clear. I was ranting. Basically, what I want to say is that a computer + free software (whether Linux, OS X, GNU, or Microsoft) does not make an educational tool instantly. Just because it has software that "could" be put to education use doesn't mean that using it is a good use of time for the educator or the student. Teachers have a limited amount of time with the children and I question whether that time should be spent with either of them in front of a computer when it isn't the best tool for the job.

I can purchase 30 computers, stick them in a lab and have my 4th graders come in and use a math program that drills them on multiplication. That's 15k in computers at a minimum, plus the cost of a lab person to administer the machines. They will be put to use by multiple classes througout the week. Or, I could buy 15 sets of flash cards and pair the students up and have them drill away with each other. The flash cards will last longer than the computers. The students learn the same skills, and they arguably learn them in a better way because they are interacting with a real person who will be more sensitive to mistakes and probably help guide them to better answers.

Re:Pathetic Moron Ranting Above

[Erore]

Okay, I found apple.com/education. I'll read that.

In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

"It seems Linus is giving away for free his newest revision of Linux OS, version 2.5 (Penguin), to every K-12 teacher in the U.S."

Why they're doing this

[Gilmoure]

Apple's doing this because there are a lot of iMacs out there that can run OSX 10.2 but were bought before hand. Anyone playing with previous versions of OSX were likely told by their tech specialist (usually media center/Librarian with yet another job to do for the same money) to pass on OSX until Apple got it more usable. Even with copies of 10.2 floating around schools (I do warranty repair at several county's schools) they're not about to go and risk thousands of $$$ for a version of OSX that might not be up to snuff. Hence, the give away.

Apple's not hoping to push hardware sales with this; any new Macs will come with 10.2 on it. They just want people to get away from OS9.

Re:Why they're doing this

[chuckles1335]

for apple's plan to gain users by getting them hooked in schools, they need to have the computers be better than the PC's everyone has at home.

Before OSX they didnt do that, i just graduated from high school, and until my senior year i hated macs, because i was always using the old crappy ones with old software, then i tried OSX, on a new Imac and am planning on buying a Mac (wont be able to for a while).

Apple is doing this because having schools use pre-OSX Mac OS is bad for apple, because students will all think macs suck if they are stuck using old software.

Educator discounts Rock

[TeknoTurd]

You go apple, Keep giving educators discounts and free stuff so i can swipe it from my dad :-D

APPLE > *

Teacher's ...

[Vegan Pagan]

And we all know what animal is the Teacher's Pet.

Apple vs MS

[TDDeYoung]

Apple gives away the OS to teachers, thereby strengthening its position in schools and education (post HS is iffy). MS wanted to force schools to buy site licenses, IIRC. Who will win the public's hearts?

Re:Really a deal for someone in subsidized housing

[Gilmoure]

Here's the price for a classic iMac for K-12 educator personal purchase.
Snow
256MB SDRAM - 1 DIMM
Keyboard/Mac OS X - U.S. English
iMac 600MHz
40GB Ultra ATA drive
CD-ROM drive
Mac OS X and Mac OS 9
Harman Kardon speakers
Apple Pro Keyboard
Apple Pro Mouse

Subtotal $789.00

All new Macs come with OSX 10.2. The free offer of 10.2 to K-12 teachers is to enable them to install it on the Macs they already have (both school and personal), not push new hardware sales. Think about it before entering bash-Apple mode.

Apple only sells the full OS.

[Anonymous Coward]

I used a Mac for years and years. None of the updates that they sell required a previous version of the OS, they were all full install CDs. They didn't even have any kind of copy protection/CD keys.

Woa

[Anonymous Coward]

224 posts so far and no-one has posted the obligatory: "It would be nice if they offered a version for PC" ?? /. is getting boring.

Missing the point COMPLETELY

[moosesocks]

I'm not sure that you all are understanding this correctly.

Apple is giving away OSX to TEACHERS, not schools. There is quite a big difference here; the teachers get a copy of it, and can do whatever the heck they want to with it.

This does NOT mean that Apple is giving OSX to schools for the use in classrooms, labs, etc. Microsoft's products for K-12 teachers/students are licensed so that they are for (educational) use by the teacher or student, but not the school, as sepearate (more expensive) versions exist for schools. The copy of the software belongs to the teacher, and unless it's being installed on a computer which is property of the teacher, it's a copyright violation (and rightfully so - the school is essentially "stealing" the software from the teacher). I'm sure apple has a similar clause in their agreement. Still, I think it's a great offer.

Besides, isn't product placement one of the most effective forms of advertising?

How is the parent "insightful"???

[Anonymous Coward]

nice troll.

why not homeschoolers?

[medcalf]

Presumably, Apple is trying to boost OS X use by teachers, so that more students will be exposed to the OS and thus will use it when they grow up. So why is Apple not offering this to home schoolers?

Home schoolers only directly school a few students each, but they interact with hundreds. For example, we belong to a home schooling association in Ft. Worth, which has about 200 students total. These people get together, and they talk - a lot! - about how they educate their children. These parents/teachers will sell (by which I mean convince to buy, though occasionally there is trade also) curricula, tools, local programs and the like to each other, based on how much it helps them. If Apple were to offer a homeschooling teacher this deal, they would be reaching as many people as they would through a public school, and people very dedicated to educating. Throw in sample educational software (which they should do with public school teachers as well) and their chances of growing their market go up dramatically.

On top of this, in many states, home schools are legally private schools no different (except in number of students and which building they are housed in) than any other private school. (This is true in Texas, for instance.) I don't really understand Apple's reasons for excluding homeschoolers from this program.

Re:why not homeschoolers?

[bpbond]

1) Can't verify homeschoolers (at least not easily). Every Joe would try to get a copy.

2) Very small number of people. "If Apple were to offer a homeschooling teacher this deal, they would be reaching as many people as they would through a public school..." Um, no.

The likely motive(a highschooler's perspective)

[Kaboom13]

I'm a high school senior right now. Being a geek, I help out a lot with our school's highly overworked IT people. I've seen a large resistance throughout the district to change over to OS X. These people don't like change. Change requires retraining teachers and changing infrastructure. Its a great effort just to teach most teachers how to check their email. Now when we change to OS X, a lot of things are going to be done differently. Apple has probably seen this resistance in action. Apple has shown they want to completely get rid of classic as soon as possible. To smooth this transistion it makes sense for them to give it away along with training materials. It will also help cash strapped districts create a homogenous OS enviroment. OS X runs a little slow on older g3s, but it runs it fast enough for most educational purposes. This is a sound business and PR move for apple in my opinion.

Giving educational institutions a break

[Morgahastu]

It seems that apple has always had a strong connection with schools until I started working at a college. Apple barely offers any deals to colleges. Even if you go for a student discount (and spend about an hour filling out the forms) you'll only get about $50 off a new macintosh (too bad they don't tell you that BEFORE you fill out the forms).

How is apple supposed to expect support from the developer community or the student community when no one is being trained on using macs in school (other then graphics design people)?

The only people I know who know anything about macs are the graphic design people who will probably never own a mac because they will be supplied one from their employer.

Apple should really try and get the techies into macs at school. For example, a local college here offers a 3 year "Computer Systems Technician" Diploma and not once do any of their students touch a macintosh.

Graphic designers won't be developing software for your macs Apple.. clue in.

Re:Pathetic Sellings Points

[Anonymous Coward]

Who gives a rat's rear end about iPhoto, iMovie, or iTunes for the education market? What are you wanting these people to do with their machine?

This shows very little imagination. When I was in high school, I digitally created and edited "radio commercials" for a journalism class. This was with my Amiga 2000, and my teacher was amazed by what I had done. My class also made some cheesy movies, which I edited using a series of VCRs and my computer. I could only imagine what I could have done with iMovie - which is considerably easier and produces output in much higher quality than what I had done. There's more to "education" than just reading, writing and arithmetic - it is exposing children to many different things that they might find they love. It's always a bonus when they can have fun learning too.

The idea of the unified addressbook is nothing new. It exists in many forms. LDAP is one of them. A school system can easily supply an LDAP server to all networked machines. If this was a Microsoft shop, Exchange does a great job too. Does addressbook auto discover the email addresses of everyone on the network? Didn't think so.

This is totally flamebait, as well as false. Actually, address book is in fact LDAP compatible. BTW...this is nitpicky, but Exchange doesn't find names and addresses - Active Directory does. Mac OS X has Open Directory, which can do the same thing. But, you can always use LDAP too.

Never so expensive as "free" stuff

[buss_error]

Oh god. Just when I thought we were getting rid of apple talk crap. And before you mod this down as a troll, (which it ain't) show me a large network where you did apple talk, punk. Small networks don't count. It has to be large, as in over 50 routers. THEN you can mod it down.

Re:Never so expensive as "free" stuff

[wadetemp]

Apple Talk is turned off by default in 10.2. Show me a network have to use Apple Talk (with modern macs and modern printing hardware... without which running OSX would be idiotic anyway) and THEN you can bitch.

Re:Never so expensive as "free" stuff

[DiscoOnTheSide]

Rutgers University for one. 30,000 users, covering all three campuses of Newark, New Brunswick, and Camden as well as the 5 sub-colleges that make up RU NB. Its not the main use and its mostly legacy as modern macs can do without it, but it's still there churning away, just as it has for years. How do I know this? I work for RU's Resnet. So cram your whiny BS. Don't wanna read about Apple stuff? It's a simple option in your account.

Re:Really a deal for someone in subsidized housing

[fmaxwell]

You are quoting prices on an grotesquely underpowered, outdated machine on which OS-X crawls. It doesn't have any way to write to removable media, so how is the teacher supposed to back up her data? "Sorry class, but I lost all of your grades in my spreadsheet because my hard drive died. I had no backup because for $800, my iMac didn't even come with a floppy drive, much less a CD-R/W."

Now compare that price to a modern, low-end machine from, say, Compaq:

Presario 6300US Minitower
128MB RAM
Windows XP Home Edition
Intel Celeron Processor 1.4GHz
48X CD-Rom Drive
40GB Hard Drive
Floppy drive (3..5")
Keyboard
Mouse (with more than one button and a wheel)

CompUSA Price: $400 after rebate
Samsung SyncMaster 750s 17-inch monitor: $140 after rebate
Altec Lansing 220 2.0 Amplified Speaker System: $30

Grand total: $570

And that price is just what the general public can get by walking into CompUSA today. A little shopping or an educators' discount would have turned up an even better price. For $250 less than the outdated "classic" iMac, the teacher gets a much faster machine (a 1.7ghz Celeron will spank a 600mhz G3 according to any respected, independent benchmark such as Spec), a larger monitor, a floppy drive, and more bundled software. In addition, she gets a machine that is much more expandable should she ever wish to put in a better video card, CD-R/W drive, DVD drive, etc.

So please stop with the Apple fanboy routine. The iMac line is grossly overpriced -- especially for most teachers' modest incomes.

Apple Gives Alot

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple Doesn't just discount the price of the hardware when it come to support apple give edu customers free support for life. Also EDU Customers have there own support number so they don't have to wait in Queues the hardware price more than pays for all that is recieved after the purchase.

eMac is only $949 at Harvard

[good soldier svejk]

The cheapest Wintel Desktop they list is a Compaq EVO D510 2GHz P4 256/40GB CD at 1,149.00. The Compaq has more RAM and a three year warranty but inferior display/graphics combo and no firewire.

They also offer amazing specials on Apple products. When the second generation TiBook came out I got a first generation one for $1,700. I also got an iPod for $230 back when they retailed for $399.

My wife rocks!!!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

My wife is a high school counselor. We ordered it last night. I was just about to buy it with my student discount (I am NOT a student at her school! I am going back to get my BSN! lol) and am glad I didn't. Now we get to update our iMac for free. I am running 10.1.5 right now.

I really scored with my wife, she took a early retirement from being a flight attendant and we get 4 free flights a year and now we get a free OS!!!

Channel One anecdote

[commodoresloat]

I was interviewed on Channel One once - the topic was media coverage of war in Kosovo. The interviewer was really cool and seemed interested in my perspective, but I couldn't help thinking she was baiting me for something. When I saw the videotape of how she edited it I understood. They managed not only to take my words out of context, but to give the impression that I was saying almost exactly the opposite of what I intended. What I had said was critical of the US media; most of this was edited out, and it was made to look like my sole purpose was to bash Serbian media coverage.

congratulations

[commodoresloat]

that slogan manages to be even more grammatically incorrect than the original!

my school was a testing ground for channel 1

[sirshannon]

we took full advantage of it, using the TV's in each room to broadcast videos of our school's daily new each morning, our senior year star treating it as if it were SNL's weekend update, acting like Dennis Miller every morning as he told of yesterday's cross-country runners' standings... we dug it, we got some 'news', we were told that we didn't have to watch the commercials (mostly M&M's and that sort of thing, it was young, they were feeling us out), and we got to brag about the TV's in our school.

Not a bad deal, I guess.

Just Priming the Software Pump

[JoeCommodore]

Apple is getting heat from the deveopers, becuase:
A) there isn't enough OSX sales, or

B)there isn't enought OSX market to develop for the New OS

So in order tp prime the pump you start with a key market (shools) give em the OS, and they will increase the demand for OSX applications. Publishers are happy because they can re-sell their OSX fixed K-12 software to the same district, etc.

I believe if Apple didn't do it many schools would stick with OS9 or earlier - because most of their apps for their curriculum aren't broke, so why replace them...

The "big picture costs" to schools will be substatntial from new apps, faster hardware and especially unix savvy staff to maintain the totally different OS (If you haven't figured it out - It ain't MacOS anymore, it's MacUNIX with a MacOS emulator as an option.)

but here's 2 problems with that

[b17bmbr]

1) unless the macs are relatively recent, they can't run os x. yeah, some schools have imacs, and most can run os x. but it will run slugish unless it is relatively newer, and then it has os x already. although we have a 20 imac lab, they run os 9, and i believe they all have only 64MB ram, so os x isn't an option without money for memory. also, we still have a number of older powerPC 7200/120's (or something like that) that teachers have and love. os x, no way.

2) unless they already have a mac with os x, they won't want to learn it. plus, it will require upgrading/changing the servers, etc. PITA. while it is a great upgrade, it is a logistical problem. and don't expect to many disrict level people to be mac/os x/unix friendly.

Re:but here's 2 problems with that

[mughi]

1) unless the macs are relatively recent, they can't run os x.

Well... considering that the original iMac is from 1998, and can run OS X with only a $17 ram upgrade, I'd say that's not too bad. It's nowhere near the cost of getting PC hardware up to running the latest version of MS Windows.

2) unless they already have a mac with os x, they won't want to learn it.

Unlike many other OS's, there's not a lot to learn. The apps pretty much run as-is, and the OS itself is simpler if anything. And this comes, among other things, from first-hand experience with upgrading grandparents from OS 9.

plus, it will require upgrading/changing the servers, etc. PITA.

Have you actually looked into this? Jaguar has support for "old-school" services, plus all the newer ones like nice Windows networking. Rendezvous simplifies things, and Jaguar includes other nic such as USB printer sharing.

Why do we give a damn?

[MoneyT]

Think about it. Take a look arround you at kids. Almost all of them are walking bilboards for one brand name or another. The sony headphones, the ambercrombie and fitch shirts, the Lee jeans, Nike shoes, Fubu jackets, the list goes on and on. Budwiser shirts, DKNY, Weezer etc etc etc. Kids are already used to seeing ads everywhere they look. What difference does it make if there are pepsi posters arroudn school, and Apples in the lab? Kids are either sheep or make their own decisions. Either way, it won't matter what we do.

Forget about M$ giving away anything...

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is doing two very important things with this program. 1) They are doing something their real competition, the hardware manufacturers can't do, give away the OS that runs on their machines. Let's see Dell, Gateway, HP/Compaq et al try and do that. After years of these companies cutting insanely unfair deals with schools, this is a great comeback.
2) Apple is systematically creating a highly targeted database of who their clients and/or interested parties really are. After all, whose really going to take advantage of a giveaway like this?

Re:Forget about M$ giving away anything...

[Incongruity]

2) Apple is systematically creating a highly targeted database of who their clients and/or interested parties really are. After all, whose really going to take advantage of a giveaway like this?

That's a really good point. I hadn't thought of that... -tcp

can I have one?

[tabby]

other people learn from my mistakes. Does that count? ;-)

wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

I, too, use a Mac, and I'm also happy for the free upgrade. Please mod this post up to "Interesting" as well.

Moderator troglodytes.

Too bad it's only the USA

[fantomas]

'Nuff said. Would have been nice to tell the school where my brother teaches in Manchester, UK. Or to contact my friend who is working with local schools in Cambodia.

Re:What are the implications of this for Beowulf..

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing much, to the best of my knowledge, and I hope you aren't being sarcastic :). The purpose of this promotion is pretty clear: To get teachers (and in the process, schools) to upgrade more quickly to OS X - Just in time for Apple abandoning OS 9 in 2003.

In the process, selling some more computers for schools that need to upgrade from Pre-G3 systems is definitely a secondary objective, but I think the primary one is to get all of Apple's main target markets ready for a single-OS strategy from the Mac maker.

As far as Beowulf clustering and such goes, I'm not quite sure how many K-12 schools are into that. Apple does, however, offer a favorable offering for multiple copies of OSX Server on the XServe.

Don't forget the students!

[Anonymous Coward]

If Apple want to increase product awareness for OSX (which is a really nice OS, IMHO) they should allow students a really cheap price on Mac software or allow students to obtain free educational copies of their OS and other products.

This will reduce piracy, and keep up with the Evil Empire's (Micro$oft's ) MSDNAA scheme which is allowing departments to sign up for $799 and allows students to burn isos of Microsoft OS's, Visio and developer toolkits.

Also a decent priced upgrade would be better, even Micro$oft offer an upgrade from older OS's more cheaply than a full version!

Also on a minor rant, sorry but the price apple charges is prohibitively expensive at the moment, many of my class mates have looked at my iBook and said they'd love to have one but they really can't afford the £1500ish it'd cost to get one that had comparitive features of a similar PC laptop (eg. Toshiba laptops).

Yes, I know the design is really nice but is it worth another £500-£600?

Also Mac software is so much more expensive, for example, I went to get McAfee Antivirus the other day, PC version = £24.99, Mac version = £70ish.

Although I have to applaud certain members of the games industry for fair pricing, most notably ID software for releasing the excellent Quake 3 Gold edition in a dual format Mac/PC cd and Warcraft 3 made by Blizzard is also released with Mac Executables.

Just my 2 pence on the subject, I love my Mac and I want to but I also love not being in Debt, please listen Apple!

Nah, they like giving away money

[pommiekiwifruit]

After all, they had to come to an arrangement with Apple records when the macintosh got sound capabilities, so I guess now Infogrammes' lawyers (who own the Atari and Jaguar trademarks in the context of computers) are rubbing their hands with glee.

got to brag about the TV's in our school.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm....
Seems like it worked then!!!

Re: Mornon Alert!

[mikedaisey]

First, the G3 iMac does come with a CDRW.

Second, a USB floppy drive runs $30, and the Compaq POS here has no FireWire, no CDRW, a lower-end version of the OS, no bundled software other than IE and Outlook Express...there's not much comparison. It stinks on ice.

ALSO, you could quote real prices--how much are these stupid rebates? Most are $199 for the computer, so looking at that I'd guess $50 for the monitor, which puts us back up at...a little over the cost of the G3 iMac today.

Your trollish defenses? It has more than one button on the mouse. Whoopie--you can buy a mouse with 100 buttons for your Mac, if it turns your crank.

Other big selling point? This teacher, who has little money and time, can buy and install DVD players, video cards and assorted crap. I know that's what most teachers I know do--they are constantly upgrading their low-end hardware.

Re: Moron Alert!

[mikedaisey]

And then I use the word MORNON. Smooth move.

parent is overrated and off-topic

[Steve Cowan]

Please mod it down accordingly. Not only is the cost of the dual G4 Mac irrelevant in this discussion, but he misses the point that dual 1GHz G4's will usually stomp on a 2 GHz P4, it will run OS X while a P4 will not, he doesn't have to buy memory from Apple (nobody ever does), Dell and Samsung "budget" LCD monitors connect only via VGA and not DVI which leads to flickering. News on /. of anything Apple always leads to the same useless troll comments about overpriced hardware. I'm getting tired of it.

The bottom line: Pemdas says he would like to run OS X at home. OS X is arguably superior yet costs less than Win XP, but you will pay more for Apple hardware with similar performance. For the extra money you also get superior case design, optional DVD-RW for less than anybody else is offering it for, outstanding quality, ADC for your Apple flat monitor if you elect to use it, the "iApps", jaguar, standard firewire, etc etc etc...

Please look at the facts before you whine about the price.

Re: Mornon Alert!

[fmaxwell]

First, the G3 iMac does come with a CDRW.

No it does not. Here are Apple's own specs since you seem unable to navigate the web on your own.

Second, a USB floppy drive runs $30 and the Compaq POS here has no FireWire

A firewire card runs $20 -- and most people have no use for it. Oh, I see, if an iMac is missing something like a floppy, then that should be viewed as an 'inexpensive upgrade opportunity', but if the Compaq is missing something that costs less (and that most people neither need nor want), it's a POS.

Since you decided to get petty about ports, I will point out that the classic iMac does not have a parallel port, audio line in, serial port, or video connector (making monitor upgrades essentially impossible). Every one of those is a lot more valuable than Firewire for most people. Even more important than the iMac's lack of ports is the lack of expansion slots. The person who purchases the Compaq can add a SCSI card, Firewire card, USB 2.0 card, 802.11a card, RAID controller, TV tuner card, video capture card, etc. The iMac user has no such expansion opportunities.

no CDRW

Neither does the $789 "classic" iMac. So now the Compaq PC is a "POS" because it lacks something that the iMac also lacks? I will also point out that the CD-ROM drive in the Compaq is a 48x unit while the one in the G3 iMac is a 24x unit.

a lower-end version of the OS

For which there is far more software than for the Mac OS. Tell me what limitations Windows XP Home has that will impair the average home user.

no bundled software other than IE and Outlook Express.

Preinstalled software on the Compaq includes:

Microsoft Money 2002
Microsoft Works 6.0 office suite
Microsoft Encarta Online Encyclopedia Deluxe
Intuit Quicken Financial Center/ Quicken 2002
RealNetworks RealOne Player
Adobe Acrobat Reader 5.0
Norton Antivirus 2002
Coloreal Color Management software

Next time, do some research so that you don't make an ass of yourself.

ALSO, you could quote real prices--how much are these stupid rebates? Most are $199 for the computer, so looking at that I'd guess $50 for the monitor, which puts us back up at...a little over the cost of the G3 iMac today.

Are you too stupid to successfully get a rebate? What a "mornon" (to use your word)! Since you are apparently too challenged to use CompUSA's web site, the computer has a $50 rebate (not $199, as you suggested) and the monitor has an instant rebate -- so that even you could get it. So much for that pathetic argument.

It has more than one button on the mouse. Whoopie--you can buy a mouse with 100 buttons for your Mac, if it turns your crank.

So what? The machine costs $800 and doesn't come with one.

Other big selling point? This teacher, who has little money and time, can buy and install DVD players, video cards and assorted crap. I know that's what most teachers I know do-- they are constantly upgrading their low-end hardware.

If you would take your head out of Steve Jobs' ass for a moment, you would realize that it's a lot cheaper to upgrade a PC than to buy a whole new machine.

This is why I hate debating with many Mac users.

I initially said that the $1200 price of a modern iMac was too high for many teachers to pay. Then a Mac fanboy posted that there was an educator deal that offered the "classic" iMac (G3) for $789. When I compared that to what was available from Compaq (at CompUSA), you flamed me and claimed that the iMac has a CD-RW drive -- when the ones that have that are the new iMacs that start with the $1200 price tag to which I initially referred. So when comparing on price, we should assume $789, but when comparing specs, we should use the $1200 iMac?

I took the time to research what I wrote, looking up specs on the iMac and the Compaq before posting. You shot back with your flame (calling me a "mornon") in which you made incorrect assertions, illogical arguments, and for which you apparently did zero fact checking.

Re: Mornon Alert!

[mikedaisey]

Bitch bitch bitch. You win--it doesn't have a CDRW drive. I was surprised at that.

I'm not terribly interested in continuing this, as I am not actually a "mac fanboy", or whatever language you wish to use. I'm sorry I called you a mornon.

I do think if you try and win your arguements w/o so much bile, you'll get further. But such is life.

Re:Pathetic Moron Ranting Above (ditto)

[mikedaisey]

I see--totally different arguement. I think the tools rock, and it is up to teachers to take them and use them. Flash cards are also tools, and can be used well or poorly, so I do agree that simply having the tools does not equal a great educational experience.

Re: Mornon Alert!

[fmaxwell]

I'm sorry I called you a mornon.

Apology accepted (assuming that you were expressing regrets at the term and not simply the spelling.

I do think if you try and win your arguements w/o so much bile, you'll get further.

You will find that I am a far more pleasant person when I am not called a moron in the subject of a message.

Re:Really a deal for someone in subsidized housing

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be a fool. Most teachers don't know anything about backups. That's why you have to make them use the network and back it up as admin.

Out of the goodness of their hearts?

[vmfedor]

Is Apple doing this just to be nice? They already have a huge percentage of the educational market. If they really wanted to cause a stir, they'd give a free copy of their software to every major corporation in the united states. ;D

- vmfedor

It also runs fine...

[Llywelyn]

On my single processor 600MHz G3 iBook.

Nope. fine on G3

[mughi]

I hate to break it to you, but OS X is so slow on the G3 that you might as well not bother.

Not at all. Time to drop your FUD. I just recently aquired a used 400 Mhz G3 PowerBook with 256MB RAM, and things are running on it quite well. iTunes, iCal, Mozilla, AOL, etc all at once. I've even been doing a lot of remote work with OroborOSX running apps from my Linux box remotely, including Mozilla and full-bore developer stuff.

(I'm quite interested in looking into Rendezvous also, given that it's a Zeroconf implementation.)

Re: Mornon Alert!

[mikedaisey]

Yep, I was expressing regret.

And I called you a mornon, not a moron. Let's not make me look like I actually knew what I was doing.

Re: Mornon Alert!

[fmaxwell]

Despite our rocky start, you're okay by me.

At least homeschoolers get the discount...

[alispguru]

We're homeschoolers, which is why my copy of Jaguar cost $69 when I bought it last August. Free would be better, of course, but Apple does give homeschoolers a break.

Anyone know if MS or {Dell/Gateway/HP} makes a similar effort?

Re:Boy, would I like to run OS X sugarbitch shutup

[Anonymous Coward]

MHz matters on integer quite a bit. Check out the new itanium2 scores. Brutal FP, so-so int. So shut the fuck up. Everyone knows that vendors charge 2-3 times the price. shut up. About your LCD bullshit, you are a fucking retard. Apple doesn't make the screen the re-badge shit. You think Apple has an LCD factory? I took apart a Mac the other day and sure as shit it said SONY. FUCKING FOOL. SHUT UP SHUT UP.

I just got a 2.4GHz 533FSB, USB 4 port on board, Audigy with firewire, 512MB DDR ram and onboard Gig E. 80GB HDD, Dual head video card, 32MB, onboard video, both do reasonably well on 3dmark2001 (2900 and 1500), CDR/RW for $1200

SHUT UP SUPT UP YOU FUCKING FOOL YOU MAKE NO SENSE. SHUT UP.

You know nothing.

Re:Only until December 31? sugarbitch strikes

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullshit. Most education institutions are strapped for cash and being that way they need to purchase cheaper machines that represent a better value. I hate to think that teachers are stupid, but given the low compensation levels they garner, it doesn't surprise me they did so well in K-12 education [apparently the idiots in your region forgot to teach you how to spell. Oh well]. Higher education [read: science professors and students] was always Unix, and everything in between now is PC.

Anyways, I helped a friend of mine, a teacher, upgrade his Mac to 1GB ram and the fastest upgrade CPU. He still uses the XP laptop the school gave him on a grant. His complaints - no software, or its all overpriced and slow.

I hate XP, but Apple is going to have to a lot more than OS X to defeat MS.

Shut up, shut up.

Re:Linux Free for K-12 derogratory sugarbitch

[Anonymous Coward]

Here you go again. You are pointing out a painful truth, K-12 teachers are an under-compensated demographic and therefore tend to be less intelligent than they ought to be, you being a prime example of one of their bastardized products.

Its not that hard to install Linux. And if you think of yourself as a techie or some sort of guru because you can pull it off, shut the fuck up. You are a joke, a sham. I could get even the most mentally retarded person using a Unix system, well, maybe not someone as fucked as you, but I see no reason. Its not as if users of Macs and Windows have any fucking idea what's going on.

Again, SHUT up. Your opinion is stupid.

Re:Why do we give a damn? sugarbitch the LCD

[Anonymous Coward]

You spelled:
around, billboards, Budweiser around
WRONG. Just an FYI.

That and you seem to okay gross consumerism. Any line that gets drawn to abate the deluge of consumerism is a good line. Apple should be stricken from education in favor of Unix, this new post Gen-x crowd is no more programmatically inclined than and of the previous ones, so if your goal is to evolve slavery by keeping people STUPID, YAY APPLE.

You don't program, you cant type or spell. You communicate yourself in one way forums with the delusion you are experienced enough to give advise. Its all flawed and ridiculous, rife with bullshit and ill tempered conclusions. You are a sad clown, Testes.

Re: And Bach didn't have a damn Mac

[Anonymous Coward]

Your story is bullshit. It's a lie. You are a bot for Apple. ART and MUSIC? Hahahaha. Look at the complexity and richness of Baroque and other now ancient music. Now look at the fucking trash today. Barely any of it is worth listening to. And Bach didn't have a fucking god damn Mac. And Art? What of it since Picasso. Not much. Looks like the bots Apple turns you into stifles any and all ability to be expressive in a significant or original way. Think different - like everyone else in this clique.

Truth be told. It all comes to light. I remember IT wannabes like you that could cut it in corporate life (because you have to know something to get paid) so you had to default to school contracts hahahahaha.

You know, being in a school, you should have been taught how to spell - in fact, something, licenses, until, licenses AGAIN, uproar and even your sig., domination. HAHAHAHA.

Re:Wow sugarbitch speaks

[Anonymous Coward]

you are the fucknig king of unsubstantiated remarks here, asshole. please, shut the fuck up

Re:time wrong wrong wrong sugarbitch Profit Margin

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong.

http://biz.yahoo.com/p/a/aapl.html

Profitability
Profit Margin (ttm) 1.1%
Operating Margin (ttm) 0.3%

Management Effectiveness
Return on Assets (ttm) 1.05%
Return on Equity (ttm) 1.62%

R:about tim testes money is a apple bot sugarbitch

[Anonymous Coward]

you are a lieing apple bot. you every post is a testaments to you being on apple's FUD payroll.

Re:about time yes but... sugarbitch

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, but gay fags are Mac users by default and are the crux of the idiotic Apple zealot brigade

Re:This sounds familiar tevis is a nazi

[Anonymous Coward]

this is the mark of the tevis. the jew killer. he is the himmler of slashdot

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Re:This sounds familiar nah he meant this

[Anonymous Coward]

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Re:Are they.. fuck you cunt sugarbitch

[Anonymous Coward]

fuck you cunt sugarbitch

fucking transgender fuckface. you blow male horses when you are suppsed to fuck the mares.