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Top Ten Mac OS X Tips for Unix Geeks
Lisa writes "There are big differences between Mac OS X and
Unix machines. In this MacDevCenter article, Brian Jepson has assembled ten
tips to help achieve a smooth transition from Unix to OS X."
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from the um,-install-debian-instead? dept
Wouldnt that defeat the purpose of using OSX?
I'm kidding, I'm kidding... jeez...
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
Kind of reminds me of teaching a literature professor how to watch TV.
Best Windows Freeware
It's Command/Control/Restart, not Control/Alt/Delete
had a brief segment last night showing the top 10 Mac OS X killer tips.. the link is here with some nifty tricks for your Mac..
If you're looking here for something insightful or thought provoking, you're probably looking in the wrong place.
I did not (and still don't?) now have anything against MacOS X but that articles makes it sounds like everything is turned up side down. Really, I had the belief that Mac OS X is just about same as everything else *nix. However, this article did good work in convincing something else.
Or are we finally allowed to call it Mac-o-sex?
Show some respect. punk assholes like you ruin slashdot and make it stomping grounds for those without real opinions. (i.e. me)
I'm kidding, I'm kidding... jeez...
No you're not.
Karma whore
I'm kidding, I'm kidding... jeez...
:P
OS X is the holy grail. I never owned an apple computer before 2000, now I have four of them. Its the operating system you've always wanted. Hard to believe but true.
I rolled by own *bsd for awhile and it was ok, but this is just so much better.
hahahaha
I run entirely Solaris and Linux as my desktop environments. My wife has an iBook with OS X (not Jaguar yet). I do most of the administration on it for her, which has been fun since I hadn't used a Mac since 1989...and OS X is the most usable (for me) that I've found. I could almost use it as a workstation...except for screen real estate issues. I'm amazed that there seems to be no default way of running virtual screens in OS X -- which keeps me from being able to work effectively when I have to wade through dozens of terminal sessions on one box (and 'screen' isn't sufficient).
Short of running one of the X11 WMs described, does anyone have a native Aqua virtual window tool?
People might like to think that Apple is somehow better than Microsoft, but trust me - if they had Microsoft's monopoly, their behavior would be no better, in fact, given that they would have a monopoly on hardware too - things would be much worse.
> The question that arises is not how to convert but WHY for God's name?
.. a bummer.
Because all other OS's go beep beep beep and eat your paper, and it was a really good paper. then you have to do it again and its not as good because you did it fast this time which is...
That and saving Christmas.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
You don't understand, he really is still alive, and he really said that. See the CNN story.
I can't help it if the guy's got a hankering for man-juice. Heck, it certainly helped out of (and into) a sticky situation!
hey now, i just upgradeed to MSN 8 i am ever so l337.
WTPOUAWYHTTOTWPA
What's the point of using acronyms when you have to type out the whole phrase anyways?
New from the Apple Switch Campain: I used a pc that messed up all the time, and I had to shut it down a LOT.. Now that I CAN'T do a proper shutdown, I don't have THAT problem...
Sigs? We don't need no stinking sigs!
Of course in true apple fashion they give you all the geek *nix commands but have to change it in some fashion. They have to hide their true geekiness behind nifty blue translucent buttons.
Hold up, wait a minute, let me put some pimpin in it
And while Aqua is not open source, quite a few of the other components are. Like Darwin and all of it's parts. And everything you can get with Fink. And XDarwin (the XFree86 implementation). And all of that stuff. Working correctly, and with eye candy too.
The first is to select the file in the Finder, and drag it to a new location while holding down the Option and Command keys (or select Make Alias from the File menu). This creates a Mac OS alias that Cocoa, Carbon, and Classic applications can follow. However, Unix applications will ignore those links, seeing them as zero-byte files.
You can also create a link with ln or ln -s. If you use this kind of link, Unix, Cocoa, Carbon, and Classic applications will happily follow it.
I have no knowledge of the reasons for this design decision, but why isn't it just "All links are symlinks, no matter where they came from"?
Having links that the gui creates be incompatible with the command line, but having links the command line makes be compatible with the gui, just creates complication.
Apple's been on this site before... The Interface Hall of Shame
Linux != UNIX
and thanks to mozilla, you can don't have to have a PC/Mac to browse porn with a unix machine!
i guess that CNN story was /.ed right after you posted. ;-p
yes, becuase lunix is teh superear operayting sistem.
It's a directory dammit! Not a freakin' folder!!!
Thank you.
Now back to your regularly scheduled beowulf "jokes", first posts, goatse.cx links, trolls and astroturfers.
When you start up the Terminal, you'll be greeted with the default user shell, tcsh.
Poor dudes! I hope there is support for bash!
From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
Any insights by UNIX geeks that use MacOSX? Have you been bitten by these "features"?
http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=149 96&db=mac
There's an editting error on the 2nd and 3rd lines of the table of directories in the article.
.trash - This directory contains files that have been dragged to the Trash.
./vol - This directory maps HFS+ file IDs to files.
AFAIK, it should read:
Isn't it suposed to be ~/.trash - in your user directory?
I don't own a Mac but I see 'em on the Sreen Savers.
Ever dream you could fly? Get up from the Flight Sim. I Fly
You're a perfect example of why Walmart shouldn't sell PCs and why AOL shouldn't send sample CDs to trailer parks.
Another "feature", at least in 10.1 is the 255 char line limit the Terminal has. This pops up in shell scripts at the worst times without warning.
I wish I had some karma points to mod you up with, dude. You've pretty much summed it up.
Shareware ($20.00), but you can use it with two windows as nagware.
Do with him what you will do with me - moderate downwards into oblivion.
I do not understand the obsessiveness with Apple. Have you forgotten the latest DMCA drama over iDVD? Have you forgotten how Apple eats up app developers by bundling similar features into the OS? Does that remind you of anybody else? Sure their products are slick and we must acknowledge that. But how come recently every sneeze in Cupertino becomes a fever at Slashdot?
In no particular order: /bin, add it to /etc/shells, and change root's shell and your shell. /home from somewhere. /etc 'cause most of that stuff is ignored.
* Forget tcsh and get bash, copy it to
* Go to The Fink Package Database and snag a ton of cool Open Source apps.
* Mount
* Usually stay away from
* Forget sudo and enable root access (I forget how, I don't have an OS X box in front of me), then use su.
* Don't delete ~/Library, that's where all your preferences are saved.
* Load XDarwin in rootless mode and run x2x way cool.
* Get the absolute latest autoconf, automake, etc that recognize Darwin.
* Don't forget to click "Require Password" in your screen saver.
* Put your own pictures in, er, somewhere in your home directory (don't remember where) so the screen saver can display them in its slide show.
Now if only the WM had "focus follows mouse" and iTunes played Ogg Vorbis.
One: under item 2 he states you need to change Login Options once root has been enabled; this is not true--Jaguar automatically provides an "Other" button that allows you to log in as root.
Two: people really should learn to use NetInfo.
Lies about crimes
Yes, Apple does get a better response these days... and why shouldn't it? They've clearly got a clue since OS9, and while not everything is open source, much of it is. They also seem committed to standards and interoperability. While Microsoft is busy mangling standards so that customers are compelled to buy other Microsoft products to assure everything works, Apple has become a vendor that actually cares about playing well with others.
My day job still requires me to write code for Windows, and I've got an old box loaded up with Red Hat's distro at home... but it's the iBook I have the most fun with these days, digging into Cocoa. It is pretty and a pleasure to use, yes, but under the hood it's packing a serious OS with a BSD pedigree.
The iBook may have cost more than a Windows laptop, but I feel it was worth it... especially in light of a very good set of developer tools that came with the unit, the equivalent of which would have set me back several hundred dollars with Windows.
If you think Slashdot is an Apple love-in without merit, go back and find praise predating recent versions of OS X. Slim pickings, I'd say.
Warning: Virtual Desktops.app is not yet compatible with 10.2.
Remember? I am a Unix geek and as such I don't buy any eye candy. Normally I deal with serious data processing stuff. And I don't buy hardware args as a reason - I've already got G4 to run Gentoo Linux.
So, is there any *REAL* serious reason?
Less is more !
Their suggestion to use sudo is good advice for *any* Unix, not just MacOS X. Since I started to use it, I've reduced the time I spend as root by 80%, which probably reduces my chances of making a really ugly mistake by the same amount. I have to shake my head when I see people who do all their work in Unix as root -- it is only a matter of time before you make some fatal typo.
On the other hand, their advice to use tcsh/bash as a sudo command is poorly thought out. How is that any better than su? Better to use sudo with a few simple commands and scripts that need root for 80% of cases, and use su for the rest.
The question that arises is not how to convert but WHY for God's name?
So you can stop wasting time making the computer work, and actually get something done?
I use machines running Jaguar every day, and, just as one expects, when you choose "Shutdown" from the Apple menu the computer... get ready for this... shuts down. It's really not that difficult, but, seeing as most here come from the unintuitive hell that is X11, I can imagine that you may be braindamaged enough for the obvious to escape you.
Software piracy is victimless theft.
Part of that problem can be solved by a
tabbed terminal like multi-gnome-terminal.
Does such a one exist for Mac OS X??
I just reduced the number of virtual desktops
to half with the tabbed terminal (8 now)
One of those things that make you wonder, how
you ever managed to work before you had it...
No political agenda?
ROTFLMAO
You name it, OS X has it (or can get it with Fink).
FreeBSD hasn't eaten any of my papers.
Any other seemingly valid reasons to switch away from UNIX and to begin using MacOS X?
I'll stick with UNIX, as it supports more platforms with more horsepower under the hood than Apple can deliver.
Way to front page this fluff.
// -- http://www.BRAD-X.com/ --
I read on Microsoft's web site that you can only use roman numerals in OS X.
This space intentionally left blank.
Did you read the parent post?
Perhaps I should rethink my way of doing things and switch to using sudo for my own account as well. Are there any gotcha's or other reasons why using sudo in this fashion is not recommended in FreeBSD, linux, or AIX?
Come ooooooooonnnnn guys!!!! Why won't you allbe Linux zealots like meeeeeeee!! I hate it when people do things I don't like!!
It can't be that maybe not everyone here marches in lockstep to open source or masturbates to the linux penguin, right?
I'm afraid a transition away from UNIX and toward MacOS X will be a step down for a long time to come.
UNIX supports, in its open source forms, a larger and more powerful variety of platforms than Apple makes, and in its closed source forms runs on much higher end systems.
Want a workstation OS? Great. Get MacOS if it makes you happy. Tinker with FreeBSD/Linux if you like to be a geek.
Don't waste time thinking MacOS is the answer to everything. Don't waste other people's time trying to convince them it is.
// -- http://www.BRAD-X.com/ --
Friend, FreeBSD isn't UNIX. UNIX is a trademark, and FreeBSD can't be called UNIX.
Besides Mac OS X contains a complete FreeBSD 4.4 distribution-- it is, in fact, a superset of FreeBSD-- so OS X is just as much a UNIX operating system as FreeBSD is.
I write in my journal
You should have followed that with some mention about needing two mouse buttons!
So funny!
Do you have $2500 eating a hole in your pocket and want to buy a new fangled gadget? If so, a Mac is pretty cool. If not, stick with the $500 PC running FreeBSD or Linux and you won't notice a difference except having more money in your checking account.
Jaguar is the current OS. It has Bash as the default.
School's out for the week, and someone's in a pissy mood. What happened? Did someone get slammed into his locker extra hard today? Poooor beeeebeeee...
don't you know that Apple is cheaper - you just have to compare um, apples to apples... for example... compared with a Ferrari, Apple is cheaper.
wanna irritate a 'switching' unix geek?
create root owned directory called "-p" or some suitable switch-like string
you can't delete it, or move it, or rename it.
rm -rf "-p" nope
rm -rf \-p nope
rm -rf '-p' nope
rm -rf * nope
try mv, ls, chown, chmod, anything! it won't let ya do it. And even when authenticated as an admin the finder won't delete it.
Finally I was able to chown -R from a higher level directory and then whack it via finder. But what a PIA!
I'm so bloody tired of hearing about OSX this, OSX that. Why is slashdot giving Apple free publicity?? OSX will *never* replace PCs. It's just too expensive for John Average, so why bother? In the mean time, we keep hearing this over and over... :P
I'm sure I will be modded down, but I had to get this off my chest!
Gustavo J.A.M. Carneiro
I'd add that you can also have hard links and symlinks in ext2fs, and various types of "link files" (.lnk, .pif) plus symlinks + "junctions" on ntfs.
So this kind of design is accepted across the industry.
"it uses NetInfo instead of /etc/hosts, /etc/group and /etc/passwd"
/etc/passwd) is consulted before NIAgent (which looks up info in NetInfo).
Kind of. The big change in 10.2 was that now the FFAgent (for using traditional flat files like
This is actually really convenient. It gives people the choice of either method as well as allowing you to use flat files to override settings in NIAgent and DNSAgent (which yeah, looks up DNS...) you can check the LookupOrder by running lookupd in debug mode.
lookupd -d
and then typing "configuration" at the lookupd prompt.
This article at macdevcenter was lame. A much more useful link for people coming from another unix to OSX is The Rosetta Stone for UNIX.
Or just browse MacOSXHints for an hour...
i don't read slashdot anymore.
They reorganized almost everything, so that everything from cp (only "ditto" copies metadata) to shutdown (not rewritten to care about Apple's replacement for /etc/init.d) to /etc/passwd (user information is now stored in "the NetInfo database") is now useless, and worse, vestigal (!), but everything new they introduced makes the previous unix "non-naming schemes" and disorganization look great by comparison. ".vol" is where trashed files go? It's ".DS_Store" rather than ".Finder Settings"? For that matter, why on earth are we still prepending periods to hide files? Or hiding /usr and /tmp at the application level rather than having a legacy emulation layer and just doing it right? Aliases don't work at the "unix level," and symbolic links work everywhere, but we're once again back to things that break when you move the target... This is the freakin 21st century here.
It may appear to work, and it may crash less than OS9, but from a design point of view, OSX is an anathema. This article just makes it clearer: OSX is, not a port of MacOS or an enhancement of Unix, but a bloody (and fatal?) collision between the two, where both lost what clarity and integrity they had by attrition to the other. A great opportunity to do a new system right was squandered by what appears to be terrifyingly sloppy-looking engineering.
Want to Know How to Cheat the GPL? Read On!
Free and Open Source
http://space.sourceforge.net/
I don't think that's going to happen, and I think Apple is shooting themselves in the foot with that assumption. UNIX users like open systems: that come from multiple vendors and have open specifications. If they didn't, they would have moved to Windows long ago.
Sure, there are some UNIX users that really go for the OS X pretty look and are happy with a BSD-like system call interface and a C compiler. But I think for the most part, OS X enjoys popularity among UNIX users only to the degree that it is UNIX compatible. If Apple wants to be in the UNIX market in the long term, rather than just receive a brief shot in the arm from a few UNIX converts, they need to make a long-term commitment to interoperating more with UNIX systems, and they need to give up dreams of "transitioning" UNIX users to Mac OS X.
if rm is rm and mv is mv why do they not behave as they should. a slash should escape a character, quotes should imply a literal string, etc.
How can I get something done when I keep having to upgrade the OS???
I see a lot of people complaing that OS X is supposedly a lot different from Unix. Well, hate to break to the Linux fanatics out there, but it is a lot CLOSER to Unix than Linux. Remember that Linux is not actually Unix, but a Unix-like operating system. OS X is Unix. It is BSD through and through. OS X is more Unix than Linux will ever be.
I hate to point out nitpicky but important points (OK, well no I don't) but:
"a transition away from UNIX and toward MacOS X"
That's sort of like a transition away from birds but towards ducks. Here the author is assuming MacOS X is somehow not a *NIX... an assumption that's been proved wrong here many times before. MacOS X is a subset of UNIX, just look up any UNIX history.
Sadly, even the original story submitter made this mistake: "There are big differences between Mac OS X and Unix machines." Sorry, that's not correct unless it's specified what other type of UNIX we're comparing OS X to.
After all, even the O'Reilly article author himself says "These tips will show you the differences between Mac OS X and other flavors of Unix" (my emphasis) MacOS X is a UNIX. Let's get it straight.
Open source won't catch on until something is done about P2P pirating. [not that I want that to happen soon ;) ] Also I can't wait for the kinks to be worked out on WINE, or for Hurd to give me a microkernel. Perhaps X11 should replace Linux as the poster-boy for Open Source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_bloc
% sudo -s Password: #
It's amazing what you can learn from man(1) pages.
This program has exactly the same limitation of Space.app: Windows from one program can only be displayed in one workspace. So, for instance, you can't have Terminal windows open in more than one workspace.
It works by hiding the applications on a desktop, when you move from desktop to desktop.
If this is acceptable to you, Space.app does it for free. But it's a poor solution for those of us used to real virtual window managers.
lookup does not run in single user mode, but runs in multi-user mode (the normal mode of operation).
The files are actually kind of wrong as of 10.2, as the flat files do get consulted in multi user mode, and do so before the NetInfo database does.
ie,
See how 'FF' gets consulted before 'NI' ? This means that the flat file does get looked at. 'DNS' is self explanatory, and 'DS' stands for Directory Services like LDAP...
i don't read slashdot anymore.
By the way, MAC OS X FOR UNIX GEEKS is a skinny book without much real content. If you download chapter 3 from the O'Reilly site, you pretty much don't need to buy the book. Spend the time reading macosxhints.com instead.
When this story was posted over at MacSlash, somebody replied with a tip of their own, which I've found to be quite nifty.
What it involves is logging out, then logging back in as user ">console", with no password. You might have to select "Other User" or whatever that option is called, on the login screen. That'll allow you to skip Aqua, and just have a nice full-screen terminal to work with, instead.
VERY nicely done. Thank you for making me laugh.
our entire development department and company backend is 100 percent linux (mostly RedHat). we just hired a new developer whose laptop is running OSX.
since he was going to be a remote user, he attempted to get his laptop up to speed with the necessary compilers, python modules and other development pieces.
after two days, he gave up in frustration, went to the nearest CompUSA, bought a new laptop and installed RedHat 8.0.
now, he is a happy, development camper.
now, i don't know much about OSX. so my question is, can OSX easily be used as a competent developer platform?
The fact that I now know what this is a reference to pisses me off more than you can possibly believe.
I think, therefore I am an Atheist.
Why? Filenames with spaces EVERYWHERE break a lot of scripts and unix commands. Mac line endings break scripts. The "unixlike" backend of OS X is a bastardized version of BSD that should not even exist. The best thing you can do is get a shell open and SSH into a real UNIX. For your sanity!! Even their gui is less intuitive than Windows.
[this sent from an Emac running OS X 10.1.5 so I know what I'm talking about]
Is there any way to make the mouse go faster in OS X? I've got the slider all the way up and I still find myself having to pick up the mouse way too much. That would make a good tip, IMO.
of course for the sake of keeping up, here's my top ten:
Here's my of 58 dual-processor G4s
to be Unix(tm), you have to have the Open Group certify you as being Unix (tm), which involves forking over cash. Apple is a member of the Open Group, and OS X is certified Unix (tm). (Free|Open|Net)BSD, however, are not Unix (tm).
BTW - GNU's Not Unix either.
You probably can't tell the difference between a Rolls Royce and a Ford Fiesta either.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
I used to think what you say above, until I bought a Mac.
Have you ever owned a Mac or had a close look at one, inside and out? It's beautifully engineered. Every surface finished nicely, lots of thought given to things like cable management and noise reduction, easy access to parts that are meant to be user-accessible (not much on an iMac, just about everything in a G4 tower).
I once had a Compaq Presario that required me to _remove_the_motherboard_from_the_case_ to add memory! (Yes, that's what their tech support said to do.) Unbelievable.
Homebrew machines tend to be more accessible, but watch out for the sharp edges on that metal case! and have plenty of twist-ties handy for the cables on any Intel-type box.
I feel that OS X is the best desktop Unix around now (I used to say that about Linux), and it runs only on Mac hardware. My Mac is worth every penny of its price to me.
Despite CmdrTaco's attempts to remain anonymous, his poor spelling habits gave him away
The fact that I now know what this is a reference to pisses me off more than you can possibly believe.
WHAT does it mean? A unit vector in the W direction??
Please explain to n00bs like me or I will TK you with a panzerfaust, then respawn as a lieutenant and never give you ammo.
In my experience, OS X is pretty good at printing -- I see fewer printing failures and less unexpected output when I print on OS X instead of Linux or Windows (for example, from the Mozilla web browser). That said, there is still room for improvement when it comes to printing and getting what you expect and want, it seems to me.
I do really like how PDF (Acrobat, Quartz) is built into OS X. It is very cool.
1) Buy Macintosh hardware. 2) Install YDL, Gentoo, Debian, or other Linux on it.
...but from a design point of view, OSX is an anathema. This article just makes it clearer: OSX is, not a port of MacOS or an enhancement of Unix, but a bloody (and fatal?) collision between the two, where both lost what clarity and integrity they had by attrition to the other.
What? Have you actually *used* it? How about this explanation instead: they've managed to create one unified operating system that keeps some very diverse users happy. If you're an end-user technophobe, what you see is a very nice, clean, end-user system, far nicer than Windows, and without the 10 years of cruft that OS9 had accumulated. On the other hand, if you understand computing, you have a complete Unix-ish system, again, without a lot of the cruft that other Unix systems have accumulated. The Apple engineers deserve major kudos for keeping the "collision" under control as well as they did... they of course have backward compatibility to deal with, too.
Yes, the file copy stuff is a little ridiculous, but geez, the complaints on that level are pretty few, considering how much elegant functionality there is in there otherwise.
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
Well, partly true.
The BSDs are UNIX based as they share a common heritage with SysV UNIX.
Linux on the other hand is a UNIX clone and doesn't even have that heritage to draw on.
Difference? Both have 4 wheels, 2 axels, 1 engine, a frame, suspension, steering system, breaks(In theory anyway, but thats another rant). Everything else is fluff. For my money I'll take the Ford Festiva for $2,575 so I can drive to and from school over the Rolls. :D
Happy Noodle Boy says "F###ing doughnut! Mock me? You fried cyclops!!"
A ferarri is *faster* than a cheaper car. Whereas, if you pay more for an overclocked mobile phone chip, you are called an idio...
Bash shell is included in 10.2
[Computer:~] acomjean% bash
bash-2.05a$ yes
y
y
y
y
y
Windows XP runs Office, Quicken, Photoshop, Illustrator, Cubase, Logik, etc.... No more wondering if your resume is going to display correctly in Microsoft Word, or having to keep a Windows box around to make PowerPoints. /dev/dsp clusterfuck. No more wondering how to turn on anti-aliased fonts in X... or did you only enable them for GTK apps... or was that KDE aps...
No more
In short, Windows XP is a great OS because you don't have to spend time fucking with things you don't care about, you can spend your time actually doing your work, leaving you that much more time to play games like all the major titles and even minor titles.
I'll quickly cede the point that an "Out-of-the-box" linux install is a hell of a lot more usable than it was two years ago. "Usable" is kind of a sad benchmark for your desktop, though. After years of development, I should certainly hope that GNOME and KDE are usable. We really should be shooting for something a little higher. Open source is *barely* keeping up with Windows on the ease-of-use front, and Windows kind of sucks.
Let's bring some real-world examples into this. Say I want to connect to a remote printer on the same network segment.
They'll all work, but Red Hat is the most difficult to use of the three. The *BSDs are even worse. It's a similar story when dealing with mobile computing or wireless networking.
My original point was that the pseudo-closed Macintosh makes me a heck of a lot more productive than any OSS desktop ever did, and I haven't had to give up any of the power of unix. That's why so many people are jumping ship to OS X. Your arguments don't say that Linux is better, only that it'll do. In order to win on the desktop, OSS is going to have to do a lot better than that.
This
One correction.
The iBook is one of the few products Apple makes that costs LESS than comparable Windows laptops (the others generally will cost about the same or more, probably more).
I say comparable because any Windows laptop costing less than the iBook is last years model.
The reason this happens is that unlike desktops, you can't get away with commodifing the innards as you have to design custom parts for a lot of the pieces to fit inside that small case.
In other words laptops are tightly integrated.
Yes, LUnix IS good.
The only issue with sudo is that you can't 'cd' to directories, you have to sudo bash (or other shell) first.
/* FUCK - The F-word is here so that you can grep for it */
Don't you mean, switch from Unix to begin using Unix? Last time I checked the open group still said OS X is a unix OS.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Try uControl to remap the key.
No. False. In order to be called UNIX, an operating system has to undergo certification. If it hasn't been certified, it can't be called UNIX, no matter what it's derived from or how it works.
In some contexts, UNIX can be a vague and fuzzy thing, meaning any operating system that works kinda-sorta like Solaris, or like AIX, or like IRIX, or like HP-UX, or like Linux, or like Darwin. But that's not really an accurate description of the facts. UNIX means something very specific, and Linux, FreeBSD, and Mac OS X aren't it.
I write in my journal
I mentioned (and linked to) uControl in the original article!!!
uControl does nothing for NetBSD or OpenBSD.
1) You're in for a rude shock if you think there is any such thing as an unbiased viewpoint.
2) The GUI and other components may not be open source, but notice even you have to make the distinction between the GUI and the whole OS. That says something doesn't it? ANd since when was being opensource the measure of the quality of a product? How many programs do you use that aren't open source? Are they bad programs because they aren't opensource?
3) Is it so hard to believe that Apple has produced a product which people are interested in?
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Let's hear it again for geek social skills. No wonder people keep them locked up in the room with the servers.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
They probably should replace cp with their own program that copies all the data on an HFS disk, but I can at least understand why it does not work.
I don't know why they introduced the whole 'Folders' metaphore... You try teaching a naive user the difference between a 'File' and a 'Folder' and then expect them to remember which was which...
A file is a folder in the real world, so why the hell is it different on the computer?
Not this again...
Go into your user account, choose preferences, then check off the following topics:
Apple
OS 9
OS X
[Any other Apple related topic]
There. Now you won't see any Apple topics on the frontpage. For you, it won't exist.
http://www.apple.com/switch/stories/ellenfeiss.htm l
I think, therefore I am an Atheist.
oops, too much info
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
Just exactly what part of MacOS X is open source? Darwin? Apple didn't write Darwin, they modified another operating system and called it their own because the license permitted it. There are (very) small exceptions though.
The parts of MacOS X that are open source are the parts that Apple does not hold the copyright to.
Aqua (or java or coffee or whatever the fuck) seems like a great proprietary GUI (or framework or library or whatever the fuck), and MacOS X seems like a great BSD/NeXT distribution for end users, but beyond that, it's just another operating system from Apple that only runs on their closed hardware.
Darwin is open source, but it is not Apple's. MacOS X is Apple's, because MacOS X is Darwin + the closed source "good stuff" that Apple owns.
Am I wrong? Where can I download the latest Aqua tarballs?
Sorry, but this is just twisted; it's not informative, leading me to believe people are working in collusion here.
It's flamebait, pure and simple.
ellen feiss is a fucking man with a dick and you sucked him off fuckig fag.
fucking fag;
FUCKING FAG
lick sack fag.
fag. you can buy a coolermaster or a lian li, fag.
... what the fuck?
who cares what color. yeah my rack mount server is a nice shade of
its a fucking computer , asshole. it processes shit. modern art goes in the MOMA, and no one goes there, STUPID asshole
you actually fucking care about color? what a fucking asshole. tevis shut the fuck up shut the fuck up.
FUCK shut up fucker. fucking idiot.
you motorola PPC is slow as fuck, but it looks nice. you like simple colors like rain man, fucking asshole retard.
Of course I've "*used*" it. I've spent quality time with people who are programming against it, and I've read much of the developer literature. I see a lot of ambivalence about OSX. I don't think the OS9 cruft is eliminated; I believe that it's all still there, both in the Classic emulation layer and in the APIs which (in earlier drafts I read were simple, beautiful, and well-organized, very Java-like) Adobe forced Apple to cruft up to make native ports of their software easier... and then took their sweet time with those native ports to boot.
/usr at the application level means that the user is guaranteed to see it at some point and be confused... I don't understand why they didn't approach unix more like they approached classic. With some containment. Seems like that would have been simpler, more much compatible, easier to use...
You said: "without a lot of the cruft that other Unix systems have accumulated," but I have no idea what you mean. What unix cruft is gone? Are you talking about X11 being replaced by Aqua? From my point of view, all the bad things about Unix are still there, and worse, new unix-esque crap has been piled on top of it, often conflicting, and badly, to add to the confusion that Unix already is.
I think the ditto issue is emblematic of the entire conflict between unix and OS9; they've met, and they've been joined by a confusing and unfortunate kludge which everyone who uses the system is guaranteed to run afoul of. Copying files is about the most basic and fundamental activity you get into in an OS - that's not a little detail you overlook. Why not just modify cp to copy metadata if it exists, or make cp a link to ditto? Or the passwd file being superceded (at least in "some cases," I'm sure) by another database... My rule on this stuff is that if you're going to fsck with the password file, you'll break a lot of old code, but once you do replace it, you take the old piece out... the only thing worse than broken old code is broken old code that thinks its working.
There are more complaints I didn't even get into. The incredible performance hit of scattering metadata of various kinds in what seems like dozens of flat files, so that the UI chains up thousands of seeks all over the disk, parsing XML and doing lots of complicated crap just to show you the contents of a folder or the properties of an application... And then apparently tying everything up in the layout loop... Have you tried resizing windows? It's tragic. And then there's the fact that Apple seems to have abandoned the superior use of metadata it once had; I see gnr9ng.xyz files scattered everywhere, not legacy stuff but new stuff created by Apple, as if it's a DOS box... IOW, turning their back on one of the earliest and best ideas in the Mac: type and creator information, instead of goofy abbreviations and naming conventions that are super-easy for the user to run afoul of.
My big complaint with them is rather than boxing up traditional unix organization and features (which have no place on a desktop Mac, IMO), they made MacOS into a Unix clone, and an annoying one, because there's a bunch of important differences and gotchas and thus hassles actually porting and running unix software, since they did change quite a bit, even if they didn't fix it... meanwhile hiding
Want to Know How to Cheat the GPL? Read On!
GNU/Linux is a superposition of the states "Unix" and "Not Unix".
um the Open Group says MacOS X is UNIX.
As for the BSDs (what I was talking about), they are UNIX based. I didn't say UNIX certified or UNIX, big difference.
UNIX based means the BSDs share a heritage with UNIX, as SysV even borrowed some BSD related things.
[ jimsibook ~ ]$ echo $SHELL
/bin/bash
* however, root is set to tcsh.
* however, I need not root with sudo
"You'll need to be a user with Administrative privileges. The main user has this capability by default."
So then, a single sudo in any script and it'll be executed without even asking... *excelent*. My transition from UNIX to Mac is... far away...
I sure have, and I'll be the first to say that OS-X is and isn't very unix'ish.
Linux distros all have root, OS-X by defualt disables the root user. Linux uses standardized files under /etc, OS-X doesn't. Linux/Unix is case sensitive, OS-X's HFS+ filesystem isn't. Also because of something called "resource fork", you can't even use standard GNU tar on OS-X the same way you can on Linux/UNIX. Also have to you ever done 'df' on an OS-X machine? You'll notice that Apple stores all of OS-X and user files under a single partition. While most linux distro's perfer having a least a few partitions for system and user files.
And no, OS-X isn't BSD either. It uses a mach kernel, with userland tools and libraries from both Netbsd and Freebsd (I don't remember what came from which OS, sorry.) OS-X was never intended to be unix. In fact, if you go to OS-X's website, they even call it "UNIX BASED" http://www.apple.com/macosx/ (look for the third to last icon in the middle). But notice how they don't claim it to be Unix-like the way Linux does.
lastly, do you even know what UNIX is? It sounds like you don't, you should read up before posting such bullshit.
Posting anonymously to preserve my 'good' karma from the OS-X weenies
OS X is a certified Unix, but to most people, that is absolutely meaningless.
Now where being a Unix(-like), Linux has it where it counts(and so does *BSD). GNU/Linux & BSD work and behave like you'd expect a Unix OS to, from the gui(X) down to the command-line.
So, while OS X is a certified Unix and Linux/BSD are not, Linux/BSD meet peoples' expectations of how a Unix OS should work much more than OS X.
On the other hand, I'm not saying that OS X shouldn't do things it's own way, in fact in many areas they've done a good job of making things better for most(ie. desktop users) users while at the same time keeping the system more robust that OS9 or Windows and comparable to more traditional Unix(-like) systems.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
I work for an IT dept. for a Comm Arts. college at a major university. We have both Macs & PC's, and they are about equal in numbers, maybe slightly more Macs. The university offers classes from time to time, and my boss went to an intro Unix class so he could learn some new tricks for OS X, which we just installed in our labs over the summer. At the end of the class, the instructor asked if there were any other classes they thought the university should be teaching. My boss told him "yeah, you should teach an OS X oriented unix class". He then found out that 5 of the 12 people in the classroom were there because they were already running OS X, and another 4 were there because their dept. (I think it was one of the Biology depts.) were switching over to OS X because a lot of the old Unix apps were being ported over to OS X. So 9 out of 12 were there for OS X. I wonder if this is a trend at the university level?
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Little has changed within Apple since the pre-OS X days. Little has been produced by Apple since the pre-OS X days. The only thing of consequence being OS X, which was bought. The Apple hype machine has led people to believe that things have changed, but this belief is largely unfounded. That is why Apple does not deserve the good rap it has been getting of late.
and, as it were, both right.
This comes late in the posting cycle, but I didn't understand the parent until the grandparent got modded up.
Command - Option - ESC (Command = Apple) is indeed force quit on Macs. But if your system locks up solid, which it would sometimes do under OS 9 and lower, force quitting became an exercise in futility.
In that case what the grandparent recommends (with incorrect key names) would work, which is a force restart. That key combo would be
where "Power" is the power button. This makes sense only for Apple laptops (on which the power button resides near the keyboard) and with systems using pre-Apple Pro keyboards. Those keyboards have power buttons on them.blog
>> don't you know that Apple is cheaper
It's certainly cheaper than it used to be! It hasn't gone down as much as x86 hardware, but in 1995 I bought a 100MHz Power Mac 7500 for $2700 without keyboard or mouse. The 17" monitor was $900, and an extra 8MB of RAM cost $300.
People forget where we've been. Apple hardware is dirt cheap compared to what it used to be.
Sounds like you have some anger management issues. Why don't you go away from your computer, nay your server(!), and talk with some human beings? Does wonders for one's spirit.
Cheers!
I think it's interesting that Steve Jobs is having to tear his hair out over Motorola yet again...
:)
The NeXT was great, but it really needed something more powerful than the 68k to live up to its potential. Of course, Motorola couldn't provide it and it took Apple and IBM to move Motorola forward.
Now, OS X is suffering for biting off more than a G4 can chew. Must be kismet.
um the Open Group says MacOS X is UNIX.
Nope. Here's the complete list of products certified under the UNIX 95 specification:
CALDERA: SCO UnixWare 7.0.1 and later for single and multiprocessor systems based on IA-32 and compatible processors and conforming to the PC architecture
COMPAQ: Tru64(TM) UNIX® Version 5.0 or later, running on Compaq AlphaStations and AlphaServers
FSC: Reliant UNIX V5.45 and higher running on RM Server Family, all Models of RM200/300/400/600 and SR2000
FSC: Reliant® UNIX Version 5.43 running on Reliant RM1000® Cluster Server
FSC: Reliant UNIX V5.43 running on RM Server Family, all Models RM200/300/400/600
HP: HP-UX Release 11.11 or later (in both 32 and 64-bit configurations) on HP9000 Series (all models)
HP: HP-UX Release 11.00 or later (in both 32 and 64-bit configurations) on HP9000 Series (all models)
HP: HP-UX Release 10.2X and later on all HP9000 Series 700 and 800
IBM: OS/390 V2R4 or later with: OS/390 V2R4 or later Security Server and OS/390 V2R4 or later C/C++ Compiler on IBM System/390 Processors that support OS/390 Version 2 Release 4 or later
IBM: IBM POWER, POWER2, and PowerPC(TM) Systems with IBM AIX® Version 4.2 or later and C for AIX® Version 3 or later
NCR: NCR UNIX System V Release 4 MP-RAS Release 3.02 or later on NCR WorldMark Series & System 3000 Series
NEC: UX/4800 R12.3 and later on UP4800 and EWS4800 Series
SGI: IRIX 6.5 running on Silicon Graphics systems using MIPS R4000, R5000, R8000 and R10,000 family of processors
SUN: Solaris 2.6 and on, on SPARC based systems SUN: Solaris 2.6 and on, on x86pc based systems
And here's the list of products certified under UNIX 98:
IBM: Systems using POWER(TM) or PowerPC(TM) architecture based processors with AIX 5L(TM) for POWER V5.1 dated 9-2001 or later
IBM: Systems using Power(TM) or PowerPC(TM) architecture based processors with AIX® Version 4, Release 3 dated 10-2000 or later and IBM VAC Version 5.0.1 or later
COMPAQ: Tru64(TM) UNIX® V5.1A or later running on Compaq AlphaStations and Compaq AlphaServers
IBM: Systems using POWER(TM) or PowerPC(TM) architecture based processors with AIX 5L(TM) for POWER V5.1 dated 9-2001 or later
SUN: Solaris 9 and on (SPARC 32-bit and 64-bit Platform Editions)
SUN: Solaris 8 (Intel platform edition)
SUN: Solaris 8 (SPARC 32-bit platform edition)
SUN: Solaris 8 (SPARC 64-bit platform edition)
SUN: Solaris 7 and on, on 32-bit and 64-bit SPARC based systems
SUN: Solaris 7 and on, on X86 based systems
Mac OS X is not UNIX, by the Open Group's definition. Of course, all that means is that Apple hasn't paid to have the Open Group certify OS X.
As for the "UNIX-based" thing, you're right, and I apologize. "UNIX-based" does mean something different from UNIX. When I read your post, I didn't see the word "based" in there, because you failed to punctuate correctly. In the future, use "UNIX-based" instead of "UNIX based." It'll prevent a good deal of confusion.
I write in my journal
come back when you can walk upright!
mv -- -p bleh
learn how to use unix before you say that the unix doesn't work.
Besides Mac OS X contains a complete FreeBSD 4.4 distribution-- it is, in fact, a superset of FreeBSD-- so OS X is just as much a UNIX operating system as FreeBSD is.
You are correct that neither FreeBSD nor OS X are UNIX 95 or UNIX 98 certified by the Open Group.
However, OSX is certainly not a superset of FreeBSD . OS X runs on top of Mach. Try compiling FreeBSD kernel modules for Darwin... Sure Darwin i a pretty good 4.4 BSD kernel simulator, but please don't confuse the simulation with the real thing. Way down at the bottom, you're using the Mach threadin model instead of the BSD 4.4 model.
Don't get me wrong... I love the idea of microkernels. For about a week I tried running my machine with a userland port of Linux 2.2.20 for the L4 Hazelnut microkernel. Props to NeXT and Apple for making a microkernel OS. Windows NT was originally intended to be a microkernel, but then all kinds of crap got migrated into the kernel for performance reasons. Microkernels are hard to pull off... MS could't do it, the GNU folks are still trying to do it (G_d bless 'em). Unfortu ntely, Mach is the CISC of microkernels and can rightly be called "micro" only in its delegation of tasks, not in its footprint. There's a push to move the HURD to L4, and you'd see a significant speed improvement if someone ports Darwin to L4 (and also ports a recent L4 implementation to PPC).
Hey, has anyone tried porting the old MkLinux stuff from GnuMach 68k to Apple's Mach PPC flavor? Then you could, at least in theory, run both Darwin and the Linux personality simultanously, one of the unutilized benefits of a microkernel. "Puh-leeze, you have dual AMD Hammers? I have a dual personaity microkernel on dual PPCs!" Speaking of advantagesof microkernels, was anyone yet implemented a "userland-only reboot" where you kill off all userland programs, including the BSD personality and then re-load the BSD personality and everything on up? That's one thin I liked about BeOS: the networking stack was a bit flakey, but you could kill it off and restart it because it wasn't part of the kernel. Hopefully Apple will stat to modularize Darwin in that way. You'd get absolutely insane stability if you had a watchdog component that would restart the other Darwin components if they startd to flake out. The other parts of the system would only think that disk latency or network latency had momentarily jumped to 10 seconds or so, with a few dropped packets and failed reads. A minor library change would even hide thefailed readsand dropped packets from the apps by checking with the watchdog component and retrying automatically when things were functional again. This is much prefferabe to, say a BSOD from a while(1{{printf("\t\b\b\\t");};
Copyright Violation:"theft, piracy"::Anti-Trust Violation:"thermonuclear price terrorism"<-Overly dramatic language.
Back in 2001 OSopinion published an article about this and then the Open Group updated their vendor list to include Apple.
Open Group Platform list (Apple is listed)
Now, they later had a talk with the Open Group and they have no problem with Apple using the UNIX brand.
Note that Apple was NOT on that list before that article in 2001.
So, unless the Opoen Group is contradicting itself, it is UNIX.
Wow. Well, you make some pretty good arguments here; when you add all that up, it does sound pretty bad. But it doesn't get away from the fact that OSX works damn well in practice, and, in the 10 months that I've been working with it daily, I can't say that any of the issues you bring up have caused me any problem at all. In fact, it's head-and-shoulders the most usable OS I've ever worked with.
Three possible reasons for that:
1) I'm the designers' ideal user - I think Mac when I'm holding the mouse, and I think Unix when I'm in the terminal, and I don't tend to mix up my thinking (for example, I make symlinks when I want symlinks, and aliases when I want aliases). Maybe this isn't typical behaviour...
2) Or, the designers did a really good job of usability testing, which may explain why the elegant architectures you talk about in the early drafts got changed in the later releases?
3) Or, my use of OSX is light enough that I don't encounter the conflicts very much. I work mostly in Python/Zope/XML, and the iApps; I'm not writing applications or compiling much of anything. But, where would that put me on the standard distribution of OSX users? Certainly not out on the fringes.
I can't help but read your critique as primarily a theoretical one. But, I'll grant you that if the theoretical flaws are as you say, the hacks that are holding it together won't last for long. Time will tell, especially as we watch Apple release versions.
But still, the terms' file' and 'folder' seem to be used interchangeably:
Clearly, a file is a folder under at least one common definition.Attempting to use them both as distinct metaphors in a file system seems to be a a bit misguided. Maybe the designers who started the 'folder' rather then 'directory' term, didn't think of a file and folder as being interchangeable terms like others do...?
You spend a great deal of time talking about kernels. Who cares about kernels? We were talking about the operating system user environment. Darwin's user environment is a superset of FreeBSD 4.4.
I write in my journal
Sorry, you're wrong. The list you referred to is a list of "platform vendors supporting the single UNIX specification." That's not the same thing as platform vendors who release UNIX operating systems. Motorola doesn't ship a UNIX operating system. Acer doesn't ship a UNIX operating system. Sony doesn't ship a UNIX operating system. And... Apple doesn't ship a UNIX operating system.
If you look carefully at all of Apple's marketing and technical documentation for Mac OS X, you'll find that it clearly says OS X is "UNIX-based," and that "UNIX" is a trademark of The Open Group. Apple doesn't call Mac OS X "UNIX" because it hasn't secured the right to do so.
Now, realistically speaking, is Mac OS X UNIX? Obviously. But because the "UNIX" name is controlled by a certifying authority, you can't call OS X UNIX until it's been certified as such. And it hasn't.
I write in my journal
Then why did the Open Group say they didn't have a problem with Apple calling MacOS X UNIX?
As I said before either it is UNIX or the Open Group is contradicting itself.
Note that in my previous post I said the Open Group told OSopinion over the PHONE that MacOS X was UNIX.
Then why did the Open Group say they didn't have a problem with Apple calling MacOS X UNIX?
I have no evidence that this ever happened. Sorry. All signs point to your being mistaken on this matter.
Whatever the case, the fact remains that Apple does not call Mac OS X "UNIX" (it is, in fact, "UNIX-based"), and that The Open Group does not include Mac OS X in their list of UNIX operating systems.
I write in my journal
Whatever the case, the fact remains that Apple does not call Mac OS X "UNIX" (it is, in fact, "UNIX-based"), and that The Open Group does not include Mac OS X in their list of UNIX operating systems.
It doesn't matter a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys whether OS X is a proper "UNIX." It's closest to NeXT, which is closest to BSD, which is a UNIX clone.
Open Group doesn't call it UNIX. Apple gives the impression that it is UNIX, but it isn't. Open Group aggressively goes after uncertified companies that claim to be selling UNIX. They have said on the record that they are well aware of Apple's marketing, and they don't plan on going after Apple.
'nuff said, let's drop it already.
Just a pointer: before posting, read a bit of the thread to understand the context. It helps minimize the looking like an idiot.
I write in my journal
>> It helps minimize the looking like an idiot.
No more so than carrying on a pointless argument...
"I'm right, you're wrong" who gives a shit!!
Me. 'Cause I'm right. If you were right, you'd give a shit, too. Not having ever been right about anything, I wouldn't expect you to grasp this.
I write in my journal
:sigh:
I really hate people who want to be anal. You could have searched OSopinion or even called the Open Groups but, noooo.
here is the link to the stories
Can't find the other follow up article.. It was there.
Ellen has posted that it's "Bleep" not "Beep". Please do not continue misquoting Ellen the god of bleep or you might find yourself in some very unfortunate circumstances.
~Anonymous Fan
I take serious reservations to your claim OS X was bought.
While it is rooted deeply in the union of OS 9 with NExT and FreeBSD, it was clearly in a large part the brain child of Apple.
You mean the article that said, "Apple's OS X is without a doubt not an officially sanctioned, UNIX operating system," right? Yes, I've read it. It also said, "Bird also mentioned that the Open Group is aware of Apple's usage of the term and would only go after the company for trademark violation if it (or any company for that matter), used the UNIX specification in such a way that may confuse buyers."
You, on the other hand, said "Then why did the Open Group say they didn't have a problem with Apple calling MacOS X UNIX?" That never happened. Graham Bird said they have no problem with the way Apple is currently using the UNIX brand, which is by saying that Mac OS X is "UNIX-based."
Apple has never said that Mac OS X is a UNIX operating system. They have said that it's based on UNIX, or used such phrases as, "It has the power of UNIX," or other such descriptions. But Mac OS X is not, officially and technically, UNIX.
I write in my journal
Okay.
:shrugs:
Maybe, my memory was playing tricks on me.
I think. I am the artist. I am a man who is commanding a man in the well to put the lotion on. It puts the lotion on. Then I work up the desire to defecate. Nice, a solid shit, a nice solid shit! As I defecate my brown baby, halfway out my rectum - poking though my anus like a turtle head. Now my Artistry begins! Now its time for artistic feculent self-twister! I crab-leg over my canvas and begin to draw with my shit "lead." My who body, undulating with the desire to finish the defecation, yearning for release, quivering, my leg muscles are strained. I draw with great passion and fervor! My eyes are fiery with creativity and insanity like Van Gough. I am one with God, as I smear feces on canvas. And my creation! My opus! My oeuvre! My masterpiece! A life like replication of Tevis' face!
Suck shit from a pigs ass, you limey fucking prick.