All this with a computer that is old enough to drink
Am I the only person who has no idea just what in the hell that is supposed to mean?
And oh yeah, good job on the ethernet stuff for the C64.
Re:Well, they don't want to hurt current sales...
on
G5 PowerBook "Challenge"
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· Score: 2, Interesting
It's the same reason car companies disguise their prototypes.
Car companies don't disguise their prototypes. I think you are thinking of concept vehicles, which they usually say, "This will never be released." then release a similar model the following year. If you will notice car companies change styles every 4-5 years. That's the lifespan of any particular vehicle style, and after that it gets a moderate change. You can expect that. It's usually a cosmetic change and a few gadget features.
Apple on the other hand has to use actual marketing tactics. Nobody wants to buy a $3,500 computer when they can wait and buy a much better computer for... you guessed it, $3,500.
So while you have Apple's reasoning right, you don't have car manufacturers. I'm still trying to figure out if this is offtopic or not.
This is something I'm thinking about here... I'm probably not going to respond to any comments in this thread, don't take it personally I just doubt I'll have the time.
Why do you assume Bill Gates et al. is making the same mistake that a lot of other businesses make? For example, the RIAA member companies and several others. Everybody says, "Jeez, these business people are dumb and are fighting the inevitable."
What if Microsoft realized two things:
Linux isn't going away.
You get free shit from them.
Effectively meaning that they can start to actually embrace and integrate services, and actually expand and mutate their business model based on the economy and world, rather than what everybody perceives as their business model.
I was chatting with a SCORE member, and he said that a true business plan should be a living entity that evolves with the world around it. Why is it so hard to believe that the most successful software company doesn't heed that advice?
You have never actually worked at a company have you? You do realize that people make millions of dollars a year writing web server log analyzers and correlators for marketing research. Don't take my word for it though.
Single quotes are your friend. Anyone who types \& is a dumbass.
Really, how do you propose to pass a reference to a subroutine? Oh, you mean in shell syntax? Why do single quotes when you can just escape. Escaping is a pretty handy thing.
You're a dumbass.
You need some help, mate. Seriously. Get a cat or something.
What is news worthy about this? This doesn't provide any statistics by itself. There is no wrapper scripts to actually match anything. All this does is parse the response page to display suggested hits. It's not even written that well.
It prints the suggested URLs out and then what? This isn't an explorer, it's a shitty data dump.
Besides, I thought Michael hated Seth. How did this story get posted?
Blizzard; Play on Battle.Net upgrade computer, don't upgrade don't play.
That's is valid, except Blizzard just starts upgrading your system. They don't ask you, but you have a Cancel button.
Microsoft; accidentally click on XBox Live, auto-upgrade, to fuss, no muss, no choice.
Wrong. Accidently click on XBox Live, then accidently click on Connect.
You can turn the XBox off if you don't want it to upgrade. Again, Microsoft isn't forcing anybody to upgrade. There just isn't a cancel button except for the power button on the computer.
Just because you bought your old jacket from Microsoft doesn't give them the right to "update" it at their whim.
It does if you connect to their online service. Like I've said before, I am sure this is in public documentation available somewhere.
My parents dont give a shit. It's sad. They now buy DVD audio discs, instead of CDs. It's even worse than CDs. When I try to tell them, they don't care. They'll vote against unfair laws, when they actually can. How often is that going to happen?
My mother is a huge Enders Series fan, and really enjoys Mr. Card's writing, so I'm hoping this could perhaps help her awareness of how skewed the situation is getting.
And you get free IPv6, and your cellphone can support 3MBit, with the 2 megapixel camera built-in to capture pictures of Godzilla battling a mecha while blue haired girls sing songs in the background with short skirts.
P.S. You should have said, "In The Island of Japan", which is a very popular phrase on here.
Microsoft is within its rights to only allow certain versions of software to play on XBox Live. It's a value-add and your XBox will play games fine without it. The problem is when it auto-updates without a choice, without the owner of the XBox having a say.
If you use any Blizzard product, when you connect to Battle.net it will upgrade your game without asking you. That is considered a good thing, and everybody loves it.
You were talking about a hardware-accellerated X server. I'm talking about communication optimizations between a proprietary Xlib and the X server it came with. The optimizations I talked about would provide reason for linking against the vendor's Xlib (versus another), and the optimizations you talked about wouldn't.
Now see, you just started talking about the communications out of the blue. You were the one who brought it up, and nobody else was talking about that.
Also, are you confusing the term server & client? In X terminology, the term 'X client' is the application you're running and 'X server' is the program that handles the display, keyboard and mouse.
I think you are confusing a lot more than terminology.
I did say that. If I have an X executable on a solaris box, and I only have a monitor on my linux box, I can run the executable on the solaris box & have it show on the linux machine, proving that the protocol is standard.
How are you going to display that on your Linux box? You just have a monitor on your Linux box? Oh, no you don't, you have an X11 Server on your Linux box. How else are you going to display the X11 client window on your local display? How are you going to get a display on your local box? By running an X11 server.
The lack of any logical argument, the misquoting, the personal attacks, the "oh I'm smarter than you" attitude, all say one thing: You're a fool looking for a fight. Dude, grow up. Respond, don't respond. I don't care. I'm not wasting my time with this crap anymore.
Ok, lets weigh this out. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. It's evident in your little "If I have an X executable on a solaris box, and I stick my dick in the mashed potatoes, the lights in Burbank will come on." tripe up above.
You are bullshitting. You do not know what you are talking about. At all. You are, apparently, making shit up. Seriously, what you are saying makes no sense what so ever.
This is why I am insulting you, because you are incapable of providing a rational argument. If you can provide a rational, and factual, stance on whatever it is you are trying to prove (I'm still not even sure what the hell you are talking about) than I won't feel the urge to call you names. Until then, you are free to waste all the time you want because that is what you have been doign with your life to come up with such a flawed understanding of the way X11 actually works.
Keep writting shitty programs and posting them on your site, though. The Unix world doesn't have enough of those!
So now we do have different XBox software versions out here.
Only until you play on Live. Otherwise, you will just deal with Dashboard bugs, and perhaps boot-up and game loading bugs.
Besides, what happens when a patch causes a regression that breaks an older game? I've seen WindowsUpdate break things on a PC (Win2k service packs 1 & 2 vs Zone Alarm anybody???), so why shouldn't I expect the same to happen on an XBox?
That is all third party applications, along with inconsistent hardware. A patch wont break an older game, because it is extremely easy to test older games. Besides, I have a hard time thinking a Dashboard patch could break a game.
this is not a patch to make the XBox better at playing games.
How do you know that there weren't other bugs fixed with this patch? Faster boot-up times, or better sound track support? I'm not sure if there is, I'm just saying.
All this bug does is let someone use their hardware for a slightly different purpose than intended, to experiment with it.
Just laugh at this statement with me, "I can't believe that Microsoft had the audacity to fix a bug and fix my console for me!" That is this argument to everybody who thinks the XBox-Linux project is ridiculous. Not that I agree with it, but it is funny.
You have a right to run Linux on your XBox. Microsoft, I'm sure, documents that when you connect to XBox Live your console will be patched. There are still several ways to run Linux on the XBox.
Like I said before, the only advantage to using the libraries from the same vendor as the X server is for extensions & optimizations.
Sorry, sparky, I was the one who said optimizations. You said that it was for proprietary extensions. You want me to go ahead and dig that one back up for you?
Other than vendor independence, how could you explain how statically-linked Motif programs on linux (back in the day when that was the only way to distribute them without requiring a $99 royalty on the client side (think Netscape4)) could work on XFree & Metrolink X servers with the same binary?
Go find me a statically linked Motif program that wasn't available with shared apps. Just for the record, I was working on SGIs "back in the day" and had to setup a lot of these apps under Linux with LessTif. I ran across exactly zero applications that didn't have a dynamic linked package.
And explaining your position by saying "You don't understand. You obviously know nothing" isn't the best argument. Especially when you're talking to an X11 and Motif programmer:-P
You are spouting shit. Constantly.
Let me count the ways:
You said that proprietary X servers are only for proprietary extensions.
You said this gem, "If you required new X libraries for every X server, how could you do X11 between a linux-based X server and a solaris-based X client?" which was just pure idiocy. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt on this. You can run MetroX on a server, and have it display on a XF86 server. No big deal.
"Especially when you're talking to an X11 and Motif programmer." This is by far the worst. Your little "Address Book" is the best you can do in Motif? Considering that it looks like your Address Book can be written in ncurses or a big emacs script.
I don't think that it's that you don't understand, I think it is because you are an idiot. Or at least you never actually spent anytime working with networked X11 applications.
Quite seriously, if I bought an X-Box, I think it'd be rather neat if it self-patched.
I have an XBox, and I patched it on XBox Live without having a Live account. You connect, and it updates Dashboard and all is well. This is what I expect with a console that has a hard drive.
Normal customers buy it to play games on, and it's a perfectly good platform for that.
I don't want Linux on my XBox. I want my XBox to play games. People are getting their panties in a bundle because Microsoft is fixing bugs in their software and auto-patching. How else are they going to try to keep this stuff patched? Otherwise they end up with a hundred-and-one different XBox software versions out there. It's easier to bitch about rights instead of thinking that this is actually a good thing and just a few people are being inconvenienced by it.
I certainly wouldn't buy it for something else, so really, I don't particularly care. I can see the angle some people are coming from, and I understand it... but this isn't really an issue where you can get the normal customer outraged, because it doesn't affect what they actually bought the product to do.
It does exactly what I expected it to do. All the way, and I enjoy it. It does affect what I bought the product to do though, it makes it better.
Then tell them what you have just told us, that after you buy the x-box, it won't be your hardware, it will still belong to Microsoft. If they seem incredulous, explain to them exactly how and why this is the case.
Aside from this being utter bullocks, probably most of them would still buy it because you would look like a nutcase.
It is your hardware. It isn't your software. That is the difference. I'm sure if you look at the documentation, it clearly states that XBox Live will patch your XBox software. Nobody is forcing you to use XBox Live. You can also crack the XBox hardware with a mod chip perfectly legally.
As the protocol between the client and the X server is standard, you don't need new X libraries. The only reason to change them is for any proprietary extensions.
Uhm, no. Just because the communication protocol for X11 is the same, doesn't mean that they way they are coded is the same. For example, you can get an X11 server that is customized and geared for optimizations using ATI cards. Like using 3d planes for everything (hypothetical example, people in the know, just let it go.)
If you required new X libraries for every X server, how could you do X11 between a linux-based X server and a solaris-based X client?
You need libraries built for your platform. The network communication follows a standard that can be written by anything. You could (in disgusting theory) write a CLI based X11 server.
I ask because I'm wondering what alternatives are out there. Will I have to recompile some of the apps if I switch?
I use XFree86, because I'm cheap. I did have MetroX a while ago, but here is a list of servers
You shouldn't have to recompile anything, because most applications shouldn't be statically linked and the X11 libraries should all provide the same functions exported via the shared libs.
Slashdot Mirror
All this with a computer that is old enough to drink
Am I the only person who has no idea just what in the hell that is supposed to mean?
And oh yeah, good job on the ethernet stuff for the C64.
It's the same reason car companies disguise their prototypes.
Car companies don't disguise their prototypes. I think you are thinking of concept vehicles, which they usually say, "This will never be released." then release a similar model the following year. If you will notice car companies change styles every 4-5 years. That's the lifespan of any particular vehicle style, and after that it gets a moderate change. You can expect that. It's usually a cosmetic change and a few gadget features.
Apple on the other hand has to use actual marketing tactics. Nobody wants to buy a $3,500 computer when they can wait and buy a much better computer for... you guessed it, $3,500.
So while you have Apple's reasoning right, you don't have car manufacturers. I'm still trying to figure out if this is offtopic or not.
If the past is any indication, the prices will stay about the same... Getting a G5 will be more a matter of how long you wait, than how much you save.
You know, it was funny and you just killed it.
Thanks a lot, asshole.
Why do you assume Bill Gates et al. is making the same mistake that a lot of other businesses make? For example, the RIAA member companies and several others. Everybody says, "Jeez, these business people are dumb and are fighting the inevitable."
What if Microsoft realized two things:
- Linux isn't going away.
- You get free shit from them.
Effectively meaning that they can start to actually embrace and integrate services, and actually expand and mutate their business model based on the economy and world, rather than what everybody perceives as their business model.I was chatting with a SCORE member, and he said that a true business plan should be a living entity that evolves with the world around it. Why is it so hard to believe that the most successful software company doesn't heed that advice?
He's afraid he's going to have to wear that hideous cordoroy space-suit again and listen to Ben Affleck mope about J.Lo.
I don't like the sound of them apples.
It depends on the code. Remember, the DeCSS code was only 7 lines of Perl. That had fairly far reaching effects on the rights of computer users.
The impact wasn't the code, but the decryption keys.
I have a script that does more aggregate data to correlate friend/fan/foe/freak relationships in bash, maybe that can get posted on Slashdot!
Marketing fools don't read web server logs.
You have never actually worked at a company have you? You do realize that people make millions of dollars a year writing web server log analyzers and correlators for marketing research. Don't take my word for it though.
Single quotes are your friend. Anyone who types \& is a dumbass.
Really, how do you propose to pass a reference to a subroutine? Oh, you mean in shell syntax? Why do single quotes when you can just escape. Escaping is a pretty handy thing.
You're a dumbass.
You need some help, mate. Seriously. Get a cat or something.
Go ahead, list the awards.
Uhm, lets see here. I have a stable paycheck, and don't need to rely on people paying me for retarded scripts and other things.
That "shitty data dump" was published by an EFF PIONEER AWARD WINNING CYBERSECURITY ACTIVIST.
It still sucked. Sorry if this offends you. If I wrote a script that sucked, and someone said, "Wow, that sucked." than I would be in agreeance.
I wouldn't try to make myself seem overly pretentious and, well, idiotic.
You suck. (fires gun) I rule. (fires gun twice) Questions?
Yes, are you really 12 or do you just play that on Slashdot?
What is news worthy about this? This doesn't provide any statistics by itself. There is no wrapper scripts to actually match anything. All this does is parse the response page to display suggested hits. It's not even written that well.
It prints the suggested URLs out and then what? This isn't an explorer, it's a shitty data dump.
Besides, I thought Michael hated Seth. How did this story get posted?
Teach Yourself your an Idiot, in 24 Hours!
If that was intentional, that was pure genius.
Otherwise, "Oh, The Irony."
Blizzard; Play on Battle.Net upgrade computer, don't upgrade don't play.
That's is valid, except Blizzard just starts upgrading your system. They don't ask you, but you have a Cancel button.
Microsoft; accidentally click on XBox Live, auto-upgrade, to fuss, no muss, no choice.
Wrong. Accidently click on XBox Live, then accidently click on Connect.
You can turn the XBox off if you don't want it to upgrade. Again, Microsoft isn't forcing anybody to upgrade. There just isn't a cancel button except for the power button on the computer.
Just because you bought your old jacket from Microsoft doesn't give them the right to "update" it at their whim.
It does if you connect to their online service. Like I've said before, I am sure this is in public documentation available somewhere.
int new = public * ( true - false ) / class;
My parents dont give a shit. It's sad. They now buy DVD audio discs, instead of CDs. It's even worse than CDs. When I try to tell them, they don't care. They'll vote against unfair laws, when they actually can. How often is that going to happen?
My mother is a huge Enders Series fan, and really enjoys Mr. Card's writing, so I'm hoping this could perhaps help her awareness of how skewed the situation is getting.
Your GF is obviously exaggerating. Blue haired girls have given way to pink haired girls.
Damnit, I'm getting old...
And you get free IPv6, and your cellphone can support 3MBit, with the 2 megapixel camera built-in to capture pictures of Godzilla battling a mecha while blue haired girls sing songs in the background with short skirts.
P.S. You should have said, "In The Island of Japan", which is a very popular phrase on here.
Microsoft is within its rights to only allow certain versions of software to play on XBox Live. It's a value-add and your XBox will play games fine without it. The problem is when it auto-updates without a choice, without the owner of the XBox having a say.
If you use any Blizzard product, when you connect to Battle.net it will upgrade your game without asking you. That is considered a good thing, and everybody loves it.
Microsoft does it, and it's evil and deceitful.
You were talking about a hardware-accellerated X server. I'm talking about communication optimizations between a proprietary Xlib and the X server it came with. The optimizations I talked about would provide reason for linking against the vendor's Xlib (versus another), and the optimizations you talked about wouldn't.
Now see, you just started talking about the communications out of the blue. You were the one who brought it up, and nobody else was talking about that.
Also, are you confusing the term server & client? In X terminology, the term 'X client' is the application you're running and 'X server' is the program that handles the display, keyboard and mouse.
I think you are confusing a lot more than terminology.
I did say that. If I have an X executable on a solaris box, and I only have a monitor on my linux box, I can run the executable on the solaris box & have it show on the linux machine, proving that the protocol is standard.
How are you going to display that on your Linux box? You just have a monitor on your Linux box? Oh, no you don't, you have an X11 Server on your Linux box. How else are you going to display the X11 client window on your local display? How are you going to get a display on your local box? By running an X11 server.
The lack of any logical argument, the misquoting, the personal attacks, the "oh I'm smarter than you" attitude, all say one thing: You're a fool looking for a fight. Dude, grow up. Respond, don't respond. I don't care. I'm not wasting my time with this crap anymore.
Ok, lets weigh this out. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. It's evident in your little "If I have an X executable on a solaris box, and I stick my dick in the mashed potatoes, the lights in Burbank will come on." tripe up above.
You are bullshitting. You do not know what you are talking about. At all. You are, apparently, making shit up. Seriously, what you are saying makes no sense what so ever.
This is why I am insulting you, because you are incapable of providing a rational argument. If you can provide a rational, and factual, stance on whatever it is you are trying to prove (I'm still not even sure what the hell you are talking about) than I won't feel the urge to call you names. Until then, you are free to waste all the time you want because that is what you have been doign with your life to come up with such a flawed understanding of the way X11 actually works.
Keep writting shitty programs and posting them on your site, though. The Unix world doesn't have enough of those!
So now we do have different XBox software versions out here.
Only until you play on Live. Otherwise, you will just deal with Dashboard bugs, and perhaps boot-up and game loading bugs.
Besides, what happens when a patch causes a regression that breaks an older game? I've seen WindowsUpdate break things on a PC (Win2k service packs 1 & 2 vs Zone Alarm anybody???), so why shouldn't I expect the same to happen on an XBox?
That is all third party applications, along with inconsistent hardware. A patch wont break an older game, because it is extremely easy to test older games. Besides, I have a hard time thinking a Dashboard patch could break a game.
this is not a patch to make the XBox better at playing games.
How do you know that there weren't other bugs fixed with this patch? Faster boot-up times, or better sound track support? I'm not sure if there is, I'm just saying.
All this bug does is let someone use their hardware for a slightly different purpose than intended, to experiment with it.
Just laugh at this statement with me, "I can't believe that Microsoft had the audacity to fix a bug and fix my console for me!" That is this argument to everybody who thinks the XBox-Linux project is ridiculous. Not that I agree with it, but it is funny.
You have a right to run Linux on your XBox. Microsoft, I'm sure, documents that when you connect to XBox Live your console will be patched. There are still several ways to run Linux on the XBox.
Sorry, sparky, I was the one who said optimizations. You said that it was for proprietary extensions. You want me to go ahead and dig that one back up for you?
Other than vendor independence, how could you explain how statically-linked Motif programs on linux (back in the day when that was the only way to distribute them without requiring a $99 royalty on the client side (think Netscape4)) could work on XFree & Metrolink X servers with the same binary?
Go find me a statically linked Motif program that wasn't available with shared apps. Just for the record, I was working on SGIs "back in the day" and had to setup a lot of these apps under Linux with LessTif. I ran across exactly zero applications that didn't have a dynamic linked package.
And explaining your position by saying "You don't understand. You obviously know nothing" isn't the best argument. Especially when you're talking to an X11 and Motif programmer
You are spouting shit. Constantly.
Let me count the ways:
I don't think that it's that you don't understand, I think it is because you are an idiot. Or at least you never actually spent anytime working with networked X11 applications.
Quite seriously, if I bought an X-Box, I think it'd be rather neat if it self-patched.
I have an XBox, and I patched it on XBox Live without having a Live account. You connect, and it updates Dashboard and all is well. This is what I expect with a console that has a hard drive.
Normal customers buy it to play games on, and it's a perfectly good platform for that.
I don't want Linux on my XBox. I want my XBox to play games. People are getting their panties in a bundle because Microsoft is fixing bugs in their software and auto-patching. How else are they going to try to keep this stuff patched? Otherwise they end up with a hundred-and-one different XBox software versions out there. It's easier to bitch about rights instead of thinking that this is actually a good thing and just a few people are being inconvenienced by it.
I certainly wouldn't buy it for something else, so really, I don't particularly care. I can see the angle some people are coming from, and I understand it... but this isn't really an issue where you can get the normal customer outraged, because it doesn't affect what they actually bought the product to do.
It does exactly what I expected it to do. All the way, and I enjoy it. It does affect what I bought the product to do though, it makes it better.
Then tell them what you have just told us, that after you buy the x-box, it won't be your hardware, it will still belong to Microsoft. If they seem incredulous, explain to them exactly how and why this is the case.
Aside from this being utter bullocks, probably most of them would still buy it because you would look like a nutcase.
It is your hardware. It isn't your software. That is the difference. I'm sure if you look at the documentation, it clearly states that XBox Live will patch your XBox software. Nobody is forcing you to use XBox Live. You can also crack the XBox hardware with a mod chip perfectly legally.
So your saying that optimizations in the server will necessitate new client-side libraries? Tell me we're miscommunicating here.
Yes, but just because you are not understanding the nature of an X server. An X server and X client can reside on the same host.
Do some research before you attempt to be condescending.
As the protocol between the client and the X server is standard, you don't need new X libraries. The only reason to change them is for any proprietary extensions.
Uhm, no. Just because the communication protocol for X11 is the same, doesn't mean that they way they are coded is the same. For example, you can get an X11 server that is customized and geared for optimizations using ATI cards. Like using 3d planes for everything (hypothetical example, people in the know, just let it go.)
If you required new X libraries for every X server, how could you do X11 between a linux-based X server and a solaris-based X client?
You need libraries built for your platform. The network communication follows a standard that can be written by anything. You could (in disgusting theory) write a CLI based X11 server.
I ask because I'm wondering what alternatives are out there. Will I have to recompile some of the apps if I switch?
I use XFree86, because I'm cheap. I did have MetroX a while ago, but here is a list of servers
You shouldn't have to recompile anything, because most applications shouldn't be statically linked and the X11 libraries should all provide the same functions exported via the shared libs.